I will be moving a Wells Index model 847 mill (vertical, Bridgeport
type knee mill) in the next several days. The move is pretty straight
forward. Basically it will consist of pulling it out of one garage,
lifting onto trailer, offloading from trailer and pushing it
approximately 10 ft into a garage. I have decided that the only easy /
safe way of doing this is with a forklift. Can anyone out there provide
some hints or advice to make this a safe easy move?

Thanks
Douglas

Before the move, brace the head against the table with some stout
blocking to minimize stress on the column. If you are hiring a rigger,
ask them for a lift operator who has some experience with this type of
move. Height is going to be an issue with most garage doors.

wrote:

I will be moving a Wells Index model 847 mill (vertical, Bridgeport
type knee mill) in the next several days. The move is pretty straight
forward. Basically it will consist of pulling it out of one garage,
lifting onto trailer, offloading from trailer and pushing it
approximately 10 ft into a garage. I have decided that the only easy /
safe way of doing this is with a forklift. Can anyone out there provide
some hints or advice to make this a safe easy move?

Thanks
Douglas

wrote in message
ps.com...
I will be moving a Wells Index model 847 mill (vertical, Bridgeport
type knee mill) in the next several days. The move is pretty straight
forward. Basically it will consist of pulling it out of one garage,
lifting onto trailer, offloading from trailer and pushing it
approximately 10 ft into a garage. I have decided that the only easy /
safe way of doing this is with a forklift. Can anyone out there provide
some hints or advice to make this a safe easy move?

Thanks
Douglas


The way I moved mine was to center the ram and put fork under each end and
lift. Block of wood on the fork so you don't ding things. This is how I was
told before but if this isn't the right way someone let me know as I'm
getting ready to move it again.

Steve.

Tim Killian wrote:
Before the move, brace the head against the table with some stout
blocking to minimize stress on the column. If you are hiring a
rigger,
ask them for a lift operator who has some experience with this type
of
move. Height is going to be an issue with most garage doors.

wrote:

I will be moving a Wells Index model 847 mill (vertical, Bridgeport
type knee mill) in the next several days. The move is pretty
straight
forward. Basically it will consist of pulling it out of one garage,
lifting onto trailer, offloading from trailer and pushing it
approximately 10 ft into a garage. I have decided that the only
easy /
safe way of doing this is with a forklift. Can anyone out there
provide
some hints or advice to make this a safe easy move?

Thanks
Douglas


Tim

The height already has been take into account. Should anything be put
between the forks and the dovetail that the head is mounted to?

When you move any machine like this, there are basic things to do.

First, move all the mass you can to as low as you can. Machines like
mills are VERY top heavy (bandsaws and punch presses also come to mind
as machines that can easily flatten you in a moment). Move the knee to
the lowest point and invert the head.

Second, protect all surfaces where lifting will occur. It goes without
saying that any machined surface should be padded but if you have ever
made an effort to repaint a machine properly, you will also protect any
painted surface from damage.

Third and many times ignored, this is the tiime where all the BS and
horseplaying stops. I have been around several moves where there has
been beer flowing or you have some clowns that can't shut their mouths
to where distractions will cause an accident to occur. This is also one
time where the kids should be either vanquished from the area or firmly
planted on a shop stool to watch the activities. In one case, I
remember watching kids drive their trikes under a dangling Bridgeport.

Fouth, carefully plan and execute each portion of the move slowly.
Speed can kill here. Lift the mill no higher than you would want to
drop it from. Believe me, mills do not bounce when they slip and fall.

Fifth, instruct all who are helping (which should be a mininum number
needed) to have an immediate plan of escape at the slightest sign of a
problem. It is natural for people to try to step in and try to "catch"
something that is falling. This tendency is as dangerous with mills as
it is with knives. I also have a phone in my pocket if the need for
medical assistance becomes necessary.

I want to emphasize that a move like this is not a big deal and is done
many times a day by many people. I just pays to be careful so you will
live another day to buy the next machine tool. ;)

TMT

Thank you for the excellent advice.

If this is really like a Bridgeport, then before moving it the head
should be rotated upside down and the knee raised to support it, with
a sheet of thin plywood between. I had to move mine through a 28" door
so I took the table off too (this was before the DRO was fitted). Pic:
http://www.tinyisland.com/images/mill03.jpg

A forklift is very commonly used and I've done this several times. I
do use 1/4" plywood "shims" between the forks and the bottom of the ram.
To do this, make sure the ram is set so it sticks out the same front & back.

GWE

wrote:

Tim Killian wrote:

Before the move, brace the head against the table with some stout
blocking to minimize stress on the column. If you are hiring a

rigger,

ask them for a lift operator who has some experience with this type

of

move. Height is going to be an issue with most garage doors.

wrote:


I will be moving a Wells Index model 847 mill (vertical, Bridgeport
type knee mill) in the next several days. The move is pretty

straight

forward. Basically it will consist of pulling it out of one garage,
lifting onto trailer, offloading from trailer and pushing it
approximately 10 ft into a garage. I have decided that the only

easy /

safe way of doing this is with a forklift. Can anyone out there

provide

some hints or advice to make this a safe easy move?

Thanks
Douglas



Tim

The height already has been take into account. Should anything be put
between the forks and the dovetail that the head is mounted to?

More excellent advice. I liked the picture also. It was worth at least
a few thousand words.

More excellent advice. I liked the picture also. It was worth at least
a few thousand words.

On 2 Feb 2005 07:52:09 -0800, wrote:

I will be moving a Wells Index model 847 mill (vertical, Bridgeport
type knee mill) in the next several days. The move is pretty straight
forward. Basically it will consist of pulling it out of one garage,
lifting onto trailer, offloading from trailer and pushing it
approximately 10 ft into a garage. I have decided that the only easy /
safe way of doing this is with a forklift. Can anyone out there provide
some hints or advice to make this a safe easy move?

Thanks
Douglas


Lower the knee. Put a 2x4 on the fork that goes under the table side
of the ram. Put a piece of 3/4" stock on the fork that goes under the
back side of the ram. Make sure you have enough fork under the head
when lifing, Tilt back a bit past horizontal and go.

Oh..watch the table crank handles..crank the table away from the fork
lift. They can be expensive to replace.

How far are you going with it?

Gunner

It's better to be a red person in a blue state
than a blue person in a red state. As a red
person, if your blue neighbors turn into a mob
at least you have a gun to protect yourself.
As a blue person, your only hope is to appease
the red mob with herbal tea and marinated tofu.

(Phil Garding)

I dont have to go too far. I am moving it from Sugarland to Spring Tx
(from the SW side to the north side of Houston.

Something to add....

Abour five years ago I saw a period of time that every mill (7 total)
that I came across that had been recently moved had tipped over during
the ride from point A to point B.

Some of them had been tied down while others had just been placed on
the trailer hoping the Gods of Gravity would do the job...well they
apparently were on a coffee break at the time.

It taught me to personally inspect all tie downs before anything of
mine is moved by someone else.

Another thing that Gunner bought up is I would remove all cranks,
wheels aka "anything that sticks out will be broken". All those little
things count up fast if you have to replace them.

TMT

wrote:

I will be moving a Wells Index model 847 mill (vertical, Bridgeport
type knee mill) in the next several days. The move is pretty straight
forward. Basically it will consist of pulling it out of one garage,
lifting onto trailer, offloading from trailer and pushing it
approximately 10 ft into a garage. I have decided that the only easy /
safe way of doing this is with a forklift. Can anyone out there provide
some hints or advice to make this a safe easy move?


I've done this with small-diameter iron pipe and a lift-gate truck. You
can slide it
on 3/4" plywood, too, to get from the truck to the garage, if needed.
If the
garage floor is smooth, you can slide it on that, too! If not, you
lever it up with
a crowbar just enough to get the 1/2" iron pipe under the base. You can
lift it up
onto 1x1 lumber first, slide the pipe under, and then remove the lumber
to free
it to roll. 3 or 4 lengths of the iron pipe can be fed under the base
as you roll it slowly.

The M head is pretty light, so one person can easily take it down in pieces.
The motor comes off real easily, then the belt housing, then the main
head casting.
Then, you can remove the round ram to lower the center of gravity even more.
Don't be too surprised if the round ram is rusted in place, though.
Mine was.
Daily doses of penetrating oil usually frees it up in a couple of days.

But, if you have a fork lift that is beefy enough to safely lift the whole
machine onto the trailer, then that may be the best way. If the trailer
is small,
removing the head and ram to lower the C.G. may be a good move. Definitely
tie it down SECURELY, idiot drivers are everywhere. I had a woman make
a left turn RIGHT in FRONT of a 20' rental truck with my Bridgeport in it.
I was looking right into her face as I used the minimum brakes possible
so as to
just BARELY miss ramming her broadside while travelling about 40 MPH.
Her eyes were as big as alarm clocks! Still, the Bridgeport made a good
mess of my
washer and dryer. They were repairable by using a sledge hammer to
pound the
cabinets back into shape.

Jon

On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 16:17:34 -0600, Jon Elson
wrote:



wrote:

I will be moving a Wells Index model 847 mill (vertical, Bridgeport
type knee mill) in the next several days. The move is pretty straight
forward. Basically it will consist of pulling it out of one garage,
lifting onto trailer, offloading from trailer and pushing it
approximately 10 ft into a garage. I have decided that the only easy /
safe way of doing this is with a forklift. Can anyone out there provide
some hints or advice to make this a safe easy move?


I've done this with small-diameter iron pipe and a lift-gate truck. You
can slide it
on 3/4" plywood, too, to get from the truck to the garage, if needed.
If the
garage floor is smooth, you can slide it on that, too! If not, you
lever it up with
a crowbar just enough to get the 1/2" iron pipe under the base. You can
lift it up
onto 1x1 lumber first, slide the pipe under, and then remove the lumber
to free
it to roll. 3 or 4 lengths of the iron pipe can be fed under the base
as you roll it slowly.

The M head is pretty light, so one person can easily take it down in pieces.
The motor comes off real easily, then the belt housing, then the main
head casting.
Then, you can remove the round ram to lower the center of gravity even more.
Don't be too surprised if the round ram is rusted in place, though.
Mine was.
Daily doses of penetrating oil usually frees it up in a couple of days.

But, if you have a fork lift that is beefy enough to safely lift the whole
machine onto the trailer, then that may be the best way. If the trailer
is small,
removing the head and ram to lower the C.G. may be a good move. Definitely
tie it down SECURELY, idiot drivers are everywhere. I had a woman make
a left turn RIGHT in FRONT of a 20' rental truck with my Bridgeport in it.
I was looking right into her face as I used the minimum brakes possible
so as to
just BARELY miss ramming her broadside while travelling about 40 MPH.
Her eyes were as big as alarm clocks! Still, the Bridgeport made a good
mess of my
washer and dryer. They were repairable by using a sledge hammer to
pound the
cabinets back into shape.

Jon
I guess you mill wasn't tied down properly. I've moved a bridgeport a
couple times with no mishaps but both times it was chained securely. I
did emergency stops to be sure. I moved a lathe with a rented truck
that had the bed about 4 feet in the air. The lathe weighs 5000 pounds
so I was concerned about all that weight sliding and changing my
center of gravity. After chaining and stopping fast to assure myself
that the lathe wouldn't move I set off towards home The truck handled
beautifully. The truck rental places knew what I was moving and
suggested the truck. They were absolutely right. It sure pays to
explain as exactly as you can what you want to move when renting a
truck to move a big machine.
ERS

wrote in news:1107359529.785787.5410
@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com:

I will be moving a Wells Index model 847 mill (vertical, Bridgeport
type knee mill) in the next several days. The move is pretty straight
forward. Basically it will consist of pulling it out of one garage,
lifting onto trailer, offloading from trailer and pushing it
approximately 10 ft into a garage. I have decided that the only easy /
safe way of doing this is with a forklift. Can anyone out there provide
some hints or advice to make this a safe easy move?


Check the top of the ram. There should be a drilled an tapped hole there.
It's for an eye bolt. Install an eye bolt and use a strap over the forks,
and through the eye bolt to lift it. Also swing the head up side down, put
a 4x4 block of wood on the table and run the knee up to the head, remove
all handles. Do not pick up a turret/knee mill from underneath. They are
top heavy and tip over easily. You can also use a hydraulic engine hoist to
lift it this way to get it out of the garage safely.

Dan

Jon Elson wrote:

Definitely
tie it down SECURELY, idiot drivers are everywhere.

Yup, mistake lots of guys make is to think about normal sideways forces
on the load when they're rolling carefully. The thing they should think
about is when someone slams into them, does the load move THEN?

horse of a different color .. also, don't rely on a strap over the knee
even if the knee's locked, because it can wiggle a little lower. I looked
in the rearview mirror once and saw my BP gently swaying from side to side,
almost had a heart attack. I was *so* lucky that time!

GWE

On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 15:47:17 -0800, Grant Erwin
wrote:

Jon Elson wrote:

Definitely
tie it down SECURELY, idiot drivers are everywhere.

Yup, mistake lots of guys make is to think about normal sideways forces
on the load when they're rolling carefully. The thing they should think
about is when someone slams into them, does the load move THEN?

horse of a different color .. also, don't rely on a strap over the knee
even if the knee's locked, because it can wiggle a little lower. I looked
in the rearview mirror once and saw my BP gently swaying from side to side,
almost had a heart attack. I was *so* lucky that time!

GWE
That swaying made me remember: Don't let anyone close to the machine
when you are moving it! I rented a forflift that had a clutch/brake
pedal. The thing was supposed to work like an automatic transmission.
You take your foot off the clutch/brake pedal and then give the lift
some gas. Like an auotmatic transmission it's supposed to take off
gently, slowly building speed. The lift I rented would just sit there
and then when the rpm got high enough slam into gear. This scared the
**** pretty much outta me when my wife ran up to the mill and tried to
steady it as it was swinging from the forks after that goddamn lift
jerked forward. I yelled at her to get the hell away from it. Let it
fall if it wants. That she would hardly slow it up as it crushed her.
I managed to put the mill in the garage without any damage to anything
or anybody. When I returned the forklift I told them about it's
strange behaviour and they remarked that they knew about it and
"really had to fix it some day". No wonder they went out of business
after a couple years. Anyway, just be sure that no one can be injured
if the mill goes somewhere you don't want it to. The advice to remove
the handles etc. is good advice. It all comes off easily and quickly.
You probably need to clean some gunk out and this will get you going
on that. Since nobody is getting paid to move the mill you might as
well take a little extra time and avoid getting a good cautionary tale
out of this.
ERS

Spend some money on a sheet or two of plywood and some 4x4's Make a skid
and the place the mill on the skid and bolt down. This gives a wide base so
it is harder to tip over and can be skidded around on the ground.
Ive done this before and it has worked very well. Also works without the
fork lift. You can use pipe rollers under the 4x4's and move it wherever you
want and also comealong it up onto a trailer . (Forklift is much easier)
but for those that don't have a forklift, I thought I would mention it.
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote in message
ps.com...
Something to add....

Abour five years ago I saw a period of time that every mill (7 total)
that I came across that had been recently moved had tipped over during
the ride from point A to point B.

Some of them had been tied down while others had just been placed on
the trailer hoping the Gods of Gravity would do the job...well they
apparently were on a coffee break at the time.

It taught me to personally inspect all tie downs before anything of
mine is moved by someone else.

Another thing that Gunner bought up is I would remove all cranks,
wheels aka "anything that sticks out will be broken". All those little
things count up fast if you have to replace them.

TMT

Bolting the mill down to a 6' square custom made pallet makes things a
LOT safer. Get 4 small landscape timbers or 4x4 posts, two 2x12 cross
pieces lag bolted to the timbers.

wrote:
I will be moving a Wells Index model 847 mill (vertical, Bridgeport
type knee mill) in the next several days. The move is pretty straight
forward. Basically it will consist of pulling it out of one garage,
lifting onto trailer, offloading from trailer and pushing it
approximately 10 ft into a garage. I have decided that the only easy /
safe way of doing this is with a forklift. Can anyone out there provide
some hints or advice to make this a safe easy move?

Thanks
Douglas

Eric R Snow writes:

On Wed, 02 Feb 2005 16:17:34 -0600, Jon Elson
wrote:



wrote:

I will be moving a Wells Index model 847 mill (vertical, Bridgeport
type knee mill) in the next several days. The move is pretty straight
forward. Basically it will consist of pulling it out of one garage,
lifting onto trailer, offloading from trailer and pushing it
approximately 10 ft into a garage. I have decided that the only easy /
safe way of doing this is with a forklift. Can anyone out there provide
some hints or advice to make this a safe easy move?
Jon
I guess you mill wasn't tied down properly. I've moved a bridgeport a
couple times with no mishaps but both times it was chained securely. I
did emergency stops to be sure. I moved a lathe with a rented truck
that had the bed about 4 feet in the air. The lathe weighs 5000 pounds
so I was concerned about all that weight sliding and changing my
center of gravity. After chaining and stopping fast to assure myself
that the lathe wouldn't move I set off towards home The truck handled
beautifully. The truck rental places knew what I was moving and
suggested the truck. They were absolutely right. It sure pays to
explain as exactly as you can what you want to move when renting a
truck to move a big machine.
ERS


I moved my Bridgeport the same way. Rented a mondo 24' truck, I
couldn't even feel the weight on the drive home. And you can get
insurance along with the rental too.

The only thing that wasn't perfect about the truck was it didn't have
any hard points inside to tie off with, so I had to use shorter lengths
of rope looped around what tie points the inside of the box afforded.
It was secure enough, just annoying to set up. $150 in transport rental
may seem like a lot, but when you're actually driving your 2500+ lb tool
home and not having the vehicle falling apart around you, it starts
looking a whole bunch better.

Gregm

On 2 Feb 2005 11:09:31 -0800, wrote:

I dont have to go too far. I am moving it from Sugarland to Spring Tx
(from the SW side to the north side of Houston.

Far enough..For some reason I thought it was a few feet. My bad.

Since having to replace the nuts in a knee after the mill was driven
over a speed bump and the knee blew the nuts and dropped..I strongly
suggest making sure that the knee gibs are locked tight! and that an
approriate block of wood is placed between the quill and the spindle,
the spindle is down against the block of wood and locked as well.

Others will suggest losening the head and turning it upside down, but
Ive personally never found that to be necessary, nor do the vast
majority of the machine tool dealers that I know.

I personally like to put a block of wood UNDER the knee, and lower it
onto the block of wood so its resting there, then drop the spindle to
another block of wood...so the whole thing is solidly supported.
Lock all gibs etc.

But the advise others have given you is good too.

Whats your nose taper? B&S 9" The Indexes are good machines and
stiffer than Bridgeports. Much heavier too.

Gunner



" We have all heard that a million monkeys banging on a million
typewriters will eventually reproduce the entire works of
Shakespeare...Thanks to AOL and WebTv, we know this is not possible."

Excellent idea...wish I had remembered to mention that.

TMT

Since having to replace the nuts in a knee after the mill was driven
over a speed bump and the knee blew the nuts and dropped..I strongly
suggest making sure that the knee gibs are locked tight! and that an
approriate block of wood is placed between the quill and the spindle,
the spindle is down against the block of wood and locked as well.


Very good idea....got to remember that next time.

TMT

Can anyone out there provide
some hints or advice to make this a safe easy move?

http://www.truetex.com/movebpt.htm

Richard J Kinch wrote:

Can anyone out there provide
some hints or advice to make this a safe easy move?


http://www.truetex.com/movebpt.htm

You were lucky, Richard. Based on my experience I don't trust chaining
over an unsupported knee even if it's locked. A little hydraulic jack
beneath to take the load would really help.

Nice photos, though.

GWE

Grant Erwin writes:

You were lucky, Richard. Based on my experience I don't trust chaining
over an unsupported knee even if it's locked.

The chain across the knee was a backup. The base was bolted to the
trailer.