Cutting 4"x 4" x 1/4" square tubing
 

I have a one time job of making about 100 cuts in some 1/4" wall 4 " square
tubing and some W8X15"s. Any suggestions on tools. I have sort of ruled
out 14" chop saws. I am thinking of buying a horizontal bandsaw. Any
suggestions on what equipment to use.

Thank You,
Rick

bought a fully auto cold saw 11 years ago. can't even count the money it
has made me. Mine is for ALuminum, but principle applies regardless. No
squaring or milling to length, +- .005 is easily done. Don't even own a
horizontal bandsaw

rbell wrote:
I have a one time job of making about 100 cuts in some 1/4" wall 4 " square
tubing and some W8X15"s. Any suggestions on tools. I have sort of ruled
out 14" chop saws. I am thinking of buying a horizontal bandsaw. Any
suggestions on what equipment to use.

Thank You,
Rick

rbell wrote:

I have a one time job of making about 100 cuts in some 1/4" wall 4 " square
tubing and some W8X15"s. Any suggestions on tools. I have sort of ruled
out 14" chop saws. I am thinking of buying a horizontal bandsaw. Any
suggestions on what equipment to use.

http://www.tinyisland.com/4x6bsFAQ.html -- try a 4x6" bandsaw, it's worked
for countless others!

GWE

I agree, but 100 cuts will take a long time. You can add coolant flow to
speed things up. You would want a more coarse blade than what comes with
them. I think 6-8 TPI would be about right.
Might be worthwhile going to one size larger and get a better saw if
it will cut faster.

Grant Erwin wrote:
rbell wrote:

I have a one time job of making about 100 cuts in some 1/4" wall 4 "
square
tubing and some W8X15"s. Any suggestions on tools. I have sort of ruled
out 14" chop saws. I am thinking of buying a horizontal bandsaw. Any
suggestions on what equipment to use.


http://www.tinyisland.com/4x6bsFAQ.html -- try a 4x6" bandsaw, it's worked
for countless others!

GWE

The band saws are very good, and don't make much noise but they are slow.
Plan on other work while it cuts..
"Rex B" wrote in message
...
I agree, but 100 cuts will take a long time. You can add coolant flow to
speed things up. You would want a more coarse blade than what comes with
them. I think 6-8 TPI would be about right.
Might be worthwhile going to one size larger and get a better saw if
it will cut faster.

Grant Erwin wrote:
rbell wrote:

I have a one time job of making about 100 cuts in some 1/4" wall 4 "
square
tubing and some W8X15"s. Any suggestions on tools. I have sort of
ruled
out 14" chop saws. I am thinking of buying a horizontal bandsaw. Any
suggestions on what equipment to use.


http://www.tinyisland.com/4x6bsFAQ.html -- try a 4x6" bandsaw, it's
worked
for countless others!

GWE

Rex B wrote:

I agree, but 100 cuts will take a long time. You can add coolant flow to
speed things up. You would want a more coarse blade than what comes with
them. I think 6-8 TPI would be about right.
Might be worthwhile going to one size larger and get a better saw if
it will cut faster.

For 1/4" wall tubing the correct blade (3 teeth in the cut) has 12 tpi. I
might go down to 10 tpi. And buy a carbon steel blade, a good one, don't
spend the money on bimetal for 100 cuts on a one-off job. Bimetal blades
are just great but teeth strip off sometimes.

GWE

"rbell" wrote in message
...
I have a one time job of making about 100 cuts in some 1/4" wall 4 " square
tubing and some W8X15"s. Any suggestions on tools. I have sort of ruled
out 14" chop saws. I am thinking of buying a horizontal bandsaw. Any
suggestions on what equipment to use.

We need more info to give you a really good suggestion.

Why have you ruled out an abrasive chop saw? Too much heat, noise, dust,
etc.? If it was me and I had the choice, I would choose an abrasive chop
saw. They're fast and you get very little burr.

You can also get a dry cut saw with a carbide-tipped blade. The initial cost
is fairly significant (maybe $500) but one blade would probably last your
run.

A cold saw would be ideal but they're lots of money. A new blade will just
drop through your material.

A bandsaw would certainly work, but there is virtually no automation
available at a reasonable cost and they are pretty slow. Cut to cut times
could be something like 2-5min and the parts would have burrs and sharp
edges.

There are automated saws (bandsaws, cold cut saws, etc.) made for this type
of work. Frequently these machines will deburr the part as well. I'm not
sure if you're making money on this deal, but farming it out may be a good
idea.

So, do you have a solution already, or can you provide us with more info?

Regards,

Robin

It might be more cost effective to order your material precut. Locally one
very competitive supplier of wide flange material optimizes cuts when
cutting for many different customers. There is no charge for cutting.
You will need a good quality saw to be cutting 8 inch wide flange. It
will cost you several thousand to get something that will do the job
properly.
Randy

"rbell" wrote in message
...
I have a one time job of making about 100 cuts in some 1/4" wall 4 " square
tubing and some W8X15"s. Any suggestions on tools. I have sort of ruled
out 14" chop saws. I am thinking of buying a horizontal bandsaw. Any
suggestions on what equipment to use.

Thank You,
Rick

I would use a bandsaw, you might consider a 7x12 horizontal, you might be
able to lay two or threee rows side by side of the 4x4 tubing thereby
cutting two pieces at once. Plus the horizontal bandsaw will run unattended
for each cut, freeing you or your operator to do other work.

Chop saws are for woodworkers who are machinist wannabe's.


"rbell" wrote in message
...
I have a one time job of making about 100 cuts in some 1/4" wall 4 "
square
tubing and some W8X15"s. Any suggestions on tools. I have sort of ruled
out 14" chop saws. I am thinking of buying a horizontal bandsaw. Any
suggestions on what equipment to use.

Thank You,
Rick

Grant Erwin wrote:
Rex B wrote:

I agree, but 100 cuts will take a long time. You can add coolant flow
to speed things up. You would want a more coarse blade than what comes
with them. I think 6-8 TPI would be about right.
Might be worthwhile going to one size larger and get a better saw
if it will cut faster.


For 1/4" wall tubing the correct blade (3 teeth in the cut) has 12 tpi. I
might go down to 10 tpi. And buy a carbon steel blade, a good one, don't
spend the money on bimetal for 100 cuts on a one-off job. Bimetal blades
are just great but teeth strip off sometimes.

GWE

But since it's tubing, you actually are looking at 1/2" cuts, and even
more during a significant part of it as it cuts the top and bottom. I
think a coarser TPI would work fine and cut much faster.

What Randy said. If you have any length at all to these parts, you are
talking about a LOT of steel. Suppliers will pretty much cut that up for
a very resonable charge. A few years back, I was quoted $.30 a cut to
precut some 2"x3" ROPS material when I bought big quantities.

Randy Zimmerman wrote:

It might be more cost effective to order your material precut. Locally one
very competitive supplier of wide flange material optimizes cuts when
cutting for many different customers. There is no charge for cutting.
You will need a good quality saw to be cutting 8 inch wide flange. It
will cost you several thousand to get something that will do the job
properly.
Randy

"rbell" wrote in message
...

I have a one time job of making about 100 cuts in some 1/4" wall 4 " square
tubing and some W8X15"s. Any suggestions on tools. I have sort of ruled
out 14" chop saws. I am thinking of buying a horizontal bandsaw. Any
suggestions on what equipment to use.

Thank You,
Rick

"Tony" wrote in message
...
I would use a bandsaw, you might consider a 7x12 horizontal, you might be
able to lay two or threee rows side by side of the 4x4 tubing thereby
cutting two pieces at once. Plus the horizontal bandsaw will run
unattended
for each cut, freeing you or your operator to do other work.

Chop saws are for woodworkers who are machinist wannabe's.

You're joking, right?

Regards,

Robin

I cut square tube with one corner up, diamond shape when viewed from
the end. I also cut angle with the opening facing one jaw of the vise.
It seems to speed up the cut considerably.

Cheers,

Kelley

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 08:50:30 -0600, Rex B wrote:



Grant Erwin wrote:
Rex B wrote:

I agree, but 100 cuts will take a long time. You can add coolant flow
to speed things up. You would want a more coarse blade than what comes
with them. I think 6-8 TPI would be about right.
Might be worthwhile going to one size larger and get a better saw
if it will cut faster.


For 1/4" wall tubing the correct blade (3 teeth in the cut) has 12 tpi. I
might go down to 10 tpi. And buy a carbon steel blade, a good one, don't
spend the money on bimetal for 100 cuts on a one-off job. Bimetal blades
are just great but teeth strip off sometimes.

GWE

But since it's tubing, you actually are looking at 1/2" cuts, and even
more during a significant part of it as it cuts the top and bottom. I
think a coarser TPI would work fine and cut much faster.

ut, freeing you or your operator to do other work.

Chop saws are for woodworkers who are machinist wannabe's.


You're joking, right?

Regards,

Robin



yeah, try cutting 4] 1/2 x4 lengths of 6061 into 5 inch pieces in 10
minutes with a bandsaw

yourname wrote:
ut, freeing you or your operator to do other work.


Chop saws are for woodworkers who are machinist wannabe's.



You're joking, right?

Regards,

Robin


yeah, try cutting 4] 1/2 x4 lengths of 6061 into 5 inch pieces in 10
minutes with a bandsaw


Are you counting the sweepup time afterwards for all that swarf? :-)

Bandsaws are much cleaner and quieter; also smaller chop saws don't
work very well on larger solid stock. The smaller chop saws were designed
for steel 2x4 studs they use in new construction, *not* for cutting e.g.
1" solid square steel bar. I tried once and the blade cut down about halfway
and then would simply go no further. There had been a ball bearing or
something in the steel before it went to Asia to be remelted and the
intense heat of the grinding cut hardened it white hard locally. I showed
this half cut to a few guys all of whom were amazed. Wouldn't happen
with aluminum, of course. I'll take slower, quieter, less messy and more
precise every time in my little home shop.

GWE

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...


Are you counting the sweepup time afterwards for all that swarf? :-)

Bandsaws are much cleaner and quieter; also smaller chop saws don't
work very well on larger solid stock. The smaller chop saws were designed
for steel 2x4 studs they use in new construction, *not* for cutting e.g.
1" solid square steel bar. I tried once and the blade cut down about
halfway
and then would simply go no further. There had been a ball bearing or
something in the steel before it went to Asia to be remelted and the
intense heat of the grinding cut hardened it white hard locally. I showed
this half cut to a few guys all of whom were amazed. Wouldn't happen
with aluminum, of course. I'll take slower, quieter, less messy and more
precise every time in my little home shop.

Abrasive chop saws go through virtually anything metal. This includes
hardened steel like "Thompson rod", tool steel punches/die inserts, lathe
tool bits, and endmills as well as aluminium, brass, copper, etc.

While I wouldn't want to cut a 4" square bar, 1" square is no problem.

I can understand someone inside their home not wanting to run one of these
as they are indeed very loud and create a fair amount of dust. However, when
you're getting paid for your work (as the original poster is, and others
within this group are), you don't always have the luxury of using a process
which is not the most efficient available.

At work we have (automatic) bandsaws, power hacksaws, abrasive chop saws,
cold saws, hacksaws, chisels, etc. They are each used as it is appropriate.

Regards,

Robin

No

Woodworkers like chops saws because they are similar to their power miter
box.


"Robin S." wrote in message
. ..

"Tony" wrote in message
...
I would use a bandsaw, you might consider a 7x12 horizontal, you might
be
able to lay two or threee rows side by side of the 4x4 tubing thereby
cutting two pieces at once. Plus the horizontal bandsaw will run
unattended
for each cut, freeing you or your operator to do other work.

Chop saws are for woodworkers who are machinist wannabe's.

You're joking, right?

Regards,

Robin

I don't think any other tool in metal working will match the efficiency of
the bandsaw when it comes to cutting stock.

You can stack multiple pices of bar stock in the vise of a bandsaw and let
it run automatically.

"yourname" wrote in message
...
ut, freeing you or your operator to do other work.

Chop saws are for woodworkers who are machinist wannabe's.


You're joking, right?

Regards,

Robin



yeah, try cutting 4] 1/2 x4 lengths of 6061 into 5 inch pieces in 10
minutes with a bandsaw

"Tony" wrote in message
...
No

Woodworkers like chops saws because they are similar to their power miter
box.


Common abrasive chop saws have very limited miter and no bevel capability. I
would say cold saws are more simlar to miter saws than abrasive chop saws
are.

But that's beside the point. Professional metalworking is about efficiency,
or at least *most* professional metalworking. If an abrasive chop saw is the
most efficient cutting method which satisfies the requirements of the part,
then it is used.

Woodworkers use drill presses, drill bits, chisels, squares, etc., etc.,
etc., which closely resemble (or are identical to) the tools metalworkers
use. Shall we all start interpolating all holes with endmills on VMCs simply
because woodworkers do not?

Regards,

Robin

I use my chop saw for Hard steel, my band saw for the rest. Many chop saw
wheels will NOT cut aluminum worth a dam. Its also way to cold outside for
me to want to cut a bunch of steel with my chop saw, and theres no way I
want all the grit on my machine tools. The whole filling my shop with grit
and sparks is not on my list of things to do. The chop saw stays in the
garage. I can clean tools, eat, drink beer, go relieve some beer, hell maybe
post to this group while my band saw does the work.
"Robin S." wrote in message
...

"Grant Erwin" wrote in message
...


Are you counting the sweepup time afterwards for all that swarf? :-)

Bandsaws are much cleaner and quieter; also smaller chop saws don't
work very well on larger solid stock. The smaller chop saws were designed
for steel 2x4 studs they use in new construction, *not* for cutting e.g.
1" solid square steel bar. I tried once and the blade cut down about
halfway
and then would simply go no further. There had been a ball bearing or
something in the steel before it went to Asia to be remelted and the
intense heat of the grinding cut hardened it white hard locally. I showed
this half cut to a few guys all of whom were amazed. Wouldn't happen
with aluminum, of course. I'll take slower, quieter, less messy and more
precise every time in my little home shop.

Abrasive chop saws go through virtually anything metal. This includes
hardened steel like "Thompson rod", tool steel punches/die inserts, lathe
tool bits, and endmills as well as aluminium, brass, copper, etc.

While I wouldn't want to cut a 4" square bar, 1" square is no problem.

I can understand someone inside their home not wanting to run one of these
as they are indeed very loud and create a fair amount of dust. However,
when you're getting paid for your work (as the original poster is, and
others within this group are), you don't always have the luxury of using a
process which is not the most efficient available.

At work we have (automatic) bandsaws, power hacksaws, abrasive chop saws,
cold saws, hacksaws, chisels, etc. They are each used as it is
appropriate.

Regards,

Robin

I bet it would - almost all dual edges and just points top and bottom of pointed flats.
When square on, the 1/4" top and bottom are cut differently than the sides and offer
more resistance.

Good idea!

Martin

Kelley Mascher wrote:

I cut square tube with one corner up, diamond shape when viewed from
the end. I also cut angle with the opening facing one jaw of the vise.
It seems to speed up the cut considerably.

Cheers,

Kelley

On Fri, 28 Jan 2005 08:50:30 -0600, Rex B wrote:



Grant Erwin wrote:

Rex B wrote:


I agree, but 100 cuts will take a long time. You can add coolant flow
to speed things up. You would want a more coarse blade than what comes
with them. I think 6-8 TPI would be about right.
Might be worthwhile going to one size larger and get a better saw
if it will cut faster.


For 1/4" wall tubing the correct blade (3 teeth in the cut) has 12 tpi. I
might go down to 10 tpi. And buy a carbon steel blade, a good one, don't
spend the money on bimetal for 100 cuts on a one-off job. Bimetal blades
are just great but teeth strip off sometimes.

GWE

But since it's tubing, you actually are looking at 1/2" cuts, and even
more during a significant part of it as it cuts the top and bottom. I
think a coarser TPI would work fine and cut much faster.




--
Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

Robin S. wrote:

"rbell" wrote in message
...

I have a one time job of making about 100 cuts in some 1/4" wall 4 " square
tubing and some W8X15"s. Any suggestions on tools. I have sort of ruled
out 14" chop saws. I am thinking of buying a horizontal bandsaw. Any
suggestions on what equipment to use.


We need more info to give you a really good suggestion.

Why have you ruled out an abrasive chop saw? Too much heat, noise, dust,
etc.? If it was me and I had the choice, I would choose an abrasive chop
saw. They're fast and you get very little burr.

You can also get a dry cut saw with a carbide-tipped blade. The initial cost
is fairly significant (maybe $500) but one blade would probably last your
run.

A cold saw would be ideal but they're lots of money. A new blade will just
drop through your material.

A bandsaw would certainly work, but there is virtually no automation
available at a reasonable cost and they are pretty slow. Cut to cut times
could be something like 2-5min and the parts would have burrs and sharp
edges.

There are automated saws (bandsaws, cold cut saws, etc.) made for this type
of work. Frequently these machines will deburr the part as well. I'm not
sure if you're making money on this deal, but farming it out may be a good
idea.

So, do you have a solution already, or can you provide us with more info?

Regards,

Robin


Gosh - just think - stack all and clamp.
Then lay it down on the big slab saw for massive stones - the 1 mile long wire saw blades !
Saw all at once. :-)

Martin

--
Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

yourname wrote:

yeah, try cutting 4] 1/2 x4 lengths of 6061 into 5 inch pieces in 10
minutes with a bandsaw

Us e the right blade in the right bandsaw and that's a two minute job.
Five minutes if I have to weld a new blade for the job and install it.
(4tpi, 6000 fpm, almost no effort, :-) )

Cheers
Trevor Jones