I have the pictures but this URL will demo that they are not fakes.
This occurred about 75 miles from where I live.

http://www.frazeeforum.com/

In article , Unknown says...


I have the pictures but this URL will demo that they are not fakes.
This occurred about 75 miles from where I live.

http://www.frazeeforum.com/

Heh. Around here you are too late my friend. NY has already
made using a hand-held phone while driving, a ticketable
offence. Next, it will be using any phone at all while
behind the wheel.

I think folks should be allowed to talk on the phone
while driving. As long as the driver's seat is in front
of the front bumper.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
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http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller
"Unknown" wrote in message
...

I have the pictures but this URL will demo that they are not fakes.
This occurred about 75 miles from where I live.

http://www.frazeeforum.com/

Using a phone whilst driving has been illegal for a few months here in the
UK.

Leon
--
Leon Heller, G1HSM

In article ,
Unknown wrote:

I have the pictures but this URL will demo that they are not fakes.
This occurred about 75 miles from where I live.

http://www.frazeeforum.com/

Accidents occur while the driver is drinking coffee, we should ban
drive-up windows.

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

In article , Gene Kearns says...

I am particularly amused by this line of argument about making cell
phone use illegal..... while pilots are *required* by law to chat on
the radio... all the while maintaining control in 3-space not
2-space.... in all phases of flight.

I'd be willing to make an exception on this point. If the
driver pulled over for cell phone use can present a valid
instructor pilot certificate then the cop tears up the
ticket....

Jim


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==================================================

Leon Heller wrote:
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller
"Unknown" wrote in message
...

I have the pictures but this URL will demo that they are not fakes.
This occurred about 75 miles from where I live.

http://www.frazeeforum.com/

Using a phone whilst driving has been illegal for a few months here in the
UK.

Using a non-hands-free phone.

Two comments on this:

1) The pilot is discussing what he is actually doing.

2) Would you expect the same pilot to be talking on a handheld while
landing at LAX in a crosswind, on one of the "busy" runways, etc. They
use headsets for a reason. They also choose appropriate times to talk
and appropriate times to concentrate on the bigger issue at hand.

The bigger issue is that most people talking on a cell phone are
distracted away from the act of driving, whereas a pilot's radio is
actually an asset to aid him in coordinating his plane.

I have no problem with someone talking on a phone when they are in
"cruise mode". It's the guy sipping on a coffee, changing lanes,
downshifting for the off ramp, talking on the phone, changing radio
stations, etc all simultaneously that needs the ticket. Unfortunately
we are not allowed to differentiate between prudent behavior and
assinine behavior so I don't have much of an issue with banning cell
phone use during driving. I'm not so important that I can't wait an
extra 2 minutes to call whomever.

JW

jim rozen wrote:
In article , Gene Kearns
says...

I am particularly amused by this line of argument about making cell
phone use illegal..... while pilots are *required* by law to chat
on
the radio... all the while maintaining control in 3-space not
2-space.... in all phases of flight.

I'd be willing to make an exception on this point. If the
driver pulled over for cell phone use can present a valid
instructor pilot certificate then the cop tears up the
ticket....

Jim


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==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 06:10:50 -0500, Nick Hull
wrote:

In article ,
Unknown wrote:

I have the pictures but this URL will demo that they are not fakes.
This occurred about 75 miles from where I live.

http://www.frazeeforum.com/

Accidents occur while the driver is drinking coffee, we should ban
drive-up windows.

I am particularly amused by this line of argument about making cell
phone use illegal..... while pilots are *required* by law to chat on
the radio... all the while maintaining control in 3-space not
2-space.... in all phases of flight.

The bottom line is that people too dense to be able to divide their
attention shouldn't be driving anyway... chances are that dame would
have rear-ended that trailer because she was sipping a drink, lighting
a cigarette, checking her makeup, or looking at something that caught
her eye out of the side window..... cell phones make a convenient
scapegoat... next up for litigation will be rear view mirrors, maps,
GPSs.....
--

Homepage*
http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/

* If you find that you are denied access to my web page, Please respond
here with
your IP address and I will see if I can open up access. I have been forced
to
blackhole large geographic regions outside of North America due to
incessant
spoofing and hacking attacks on my web server. Thanks.

The common element is the driving not the other activities. Make getting
the license harder and loosing it easier.

as far as the pilot thing goes how often are the planes nose to tail like
cars on a highway? what is the minimum seperation??
Pat

Long over due.

In a recent bout of dangerous winter weather, the news media and the
police were repeatily telling people to get the *&^% of the phones and
concentrate on driving.

It is also common practice to check phone logs now when an accident
occurs.

Studies have shown that using a cell phone during driving diminshes
one's performance as much as driving under the influence of alcohol.

Locally, we have had several accidents where pedestrians were killed by
cell phone drivers. The cell phone use was a determining factor in the
latter conviction and imprisonment of the drivers.

In my personal experience with the close calls I have had with other
drivers, EVERY ONE of them has involved the other driver talking on the
cell phone and not paying attention to their driving. Several of those
have been with the other driver running a red light at full bore while
focused on the phone and not their surroundings.

Whether or not a cell phone driver wants to admit it, driving while
using a cell phone is an accident waiting to happen.

When one adds all this up, I would consider banning cell phones during
driving to be a good move.

FYI....there is development currently going on where the black box of
your car will monitor for internal cell phone usage and record that
fact if the car is under operation. Its intent is to allow police and
insurance companies to determine if the cell was in use during vehicle
operation. How they will determine whether or not the driver was the
one using the phone is the sticky issue at this time.

TMT

In article ,
Nick Hull wrote:
In article ,
Unknown wrote:

I have the pictures but this URL will demo that they are not fakes.
This occurred about 75 miles from where I live.

http://www.frazeeforum.com/

Accidents occur while the driver is drinking coffee, we should ban
drive-up windows.

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

Nope, just cup holders.

I don't have a steeringwheel on my coffee table, why should I have a cup
holder in my car?

-- Joe, no cup holders and won't use the phone while driving.

--
Joseph M. Krzeszewski Mechanical Engineering and stuff
Jack of All Trades, Master of None... Yet

In article ,
Gene Kearns wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 06:10:50 -0500, Nick Hull
wrote:

In article ,
Unknown wrote:

I have the pictures but this URL will demo that they are not fakes.
This occurred about 75 miles from where I live.

http://www.frazeeforum.com/

Accidents occur while the driver is drinking coffee, we should ban
drive-up windows.

I am particularly amused by this line of argument about making cell
phone use illegal..... while pilots are *required* by law to chat on
the radio... all the while maintaining control in 3-space not
2-space.... in all phases of flight.

There is a difference here. When they start landing Cesna's three abreast
and less than 100ft apart nose to tail, we can make the comparison.

Likewise, if everyone went down the center lane of a three lane highway with
a quarter mile between cars, you could do almost anything you want without
incident.

-- Joe

--
Joseph M. Krzeszewski Mechanical Engineering and stuff
Jack of All Trades, Master of None... Yet

In article .com,
Too_Many_Tools says...

Whether or not a cell phone driver wants to admit it, driving while
using a cell phone is an accident waiting to happen.

It's funny but nobody ever comes down on the *other* side
of this issue. Nobody ever posts, "yeah, I talk on the
phone all the time and it never causes a problem, you guys
are just nuts."

I suspect that even folks who do it, realize the trouble they
are setting themselves up for. Further I bet that even the
folks who do use phones while driving, without causing
crashes, are still infuriated by the 90 percent of the
phone users who really are morons and poor drivers.

My favorite cell phone story was at a very local intersection,
which is a five way crossroads, with a couple of lights there.

Some lady was on the phone, puttering along real slow. She
ran the red light and got herself fetched up crosswised in the
intersection, with her car pointing halfway between the two
roads out.

The amazing part was she had a marked state trooper car
following her the entire way. It was only once she actually
got herself stuck and had to back up and take another shot
at the intersection did he turn on his lights and pull her
over. She was totally clueless and completely immersed in
her phone call.

I wanted to stop and shake the trooper's hand, but my
daughter said she would never have forgiven me for making
a scene like that.

Jim


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==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

I am particularly amused by this line of argument about making cell
phone use illegal..... while pilots are *required* by law to chat on
the radio... all the while maintaining control in 3-space not
2-space.... in all phases of flight.


Gene, I know you are a pilot - when was the last time you flew with another
plane 6 feet off your wing tip? And I bet if you "chat" on the radio for 10
minutes on a control frequency you get a call from the FAA.

There is some validity in your point though, the last time I almost got hit
it was by someone wandering over into my lane because they were trying to
program their dash mounted GPS.

Steve.

Greetings and Salutations...

On 12 Jan 2005 09:26:51 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article .com,
Too_Many_Tools says...

Whether or not a cell phone driver wants to admit it, driving while
using a cell phone is an accident waiting to happen.

It's funny but nobody ever comes down on the *other* side
of this issue. Nobody ever posts, "yeah, I talk on the
phone all the time and it never causes a problem, you guys
are just nuts."

*snip of amusing story*

I am annoyed by folks that clasp the cell phone to their
ear while driving, and, are not paying attention to the road...as
a matter of fact, the majority of the close calls I have had in
the past few years have COME from exactly that sort of stupid
behavior.
now...last year, due to circumstances beyond my control,
I was forced to get a cell phone. While it does not happen often,
I do end up talking while on the road at times. I have found,
though, that with a headset, it is no more distracting for me
to talk on it, then, it is to talk with a passenger in the
car. Of course, I also make bloody sure to pay more attention
to the driving than the conversation.
I suspect that the big problem with cell phones and
driving IS the fact that we are trained from birth to pay
100 % of our attention to the phone conversation. Between
that training and the fact that a phone conversation is more
"in our heads" than coming from someone outside, it DOES
tend to attract more of our attention than it should.
While I waver back and forth on the issue, I generally
feel that we should not ban cell phone use in the vehicle,
just because it is a waste of time, and, we already have too
many laws in America that bring the fences in too close
to us citizens. It is a law that would be almost universally
ignored, and so would act to erode what little respect the
public still has for the structure of laws in this country.
It is also a law that could ONLY be enforced in a selective
fashion, which *would* mean that it would be abused by
the authorities. After all, if the cops ticketed EVERYONE
they caught using a cell phone while driving, not only would
they have a huge public outcry, but, doughnut sales would
drop terribly, and, (if this area is any example) about
half the tickets would go to cops themselves.
Regards
Dave Mundt

On 12 Jan 2005 09:26:51 -0800, jim rozen wrote:
In article .com,
Too_Many_Tools says...

Whether or not a cell phone driver wants to admit it, driving while
using a cell phone is an accident waiting to happen.

It's funny but nobody ever comes down on the *other* side
of this issue. Nobody ever posts, "yeah, I talk on the
phone all the time and it never causes a problem, you guys
are just nuts."

I use the phone in my car on occasion, and I'd like to think
that it hasn't caused any problems. Is that close enough?
I work in IT, and when the phone rings, I have to answer it,
because that's part of what my salary pays for.

I suspect that even folks who do it, realize the trouble they
are setting themselves up for. Further I bet that even the
folks who do use phones while driving, without causing
crashes, are still infuriated by the 90 percent of the
phone users who really are morons and poor drivers.

Yes. A bad driver is a bad driver with or without a cellphone.

Good post, Dave - full of logic and common sense!

Cell phones are yet another example of the utter futility of extending the
use of resources to the common man. Cellular telephony has come down in
price so that just about everyone can afford one. Affordability does not
necessarily bring common sense with it. IMO, cell phones should be a
licensable entity extended only to those that can demonstrate a need for it.
The FCC really dropped the ball on this one, folks! Worldwide corporate
greed caused a great upsurge in the cellular market place until it is now
out of control. We have given it to those that don't deserve it and cannot
muster the common sense to use it intelligently. Sort of like giving a
monkey a loaded gun - sooner or later he is going to shoot you in the ass
with it!

Bob Swinney



"Dave Mundt" wrote in message
...
Greetings and Salutations...

On 12 Jan 2005 09:26:51 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article .com,
Too_Many_Tools says...

Whether or not a cell phone driver wants to admit it, driving while
using a cell phone is an accident waiting to happen.

It's funny but nobody ever comes down on the *other* side
of this issue. Nobody ever posts, "yeah, I talk on the
phone all the time and it never causes a problem, you guys
are just nuts."

*snip of amusing story*

I am annoyed by folks that clasp the cell phone to their
ear while driving, and, are not paying attention to the road...as
a matter of fact, the majority of the close calls I have had in
the past few years have COME from exactly that sort of stupid
behavior.
now...last year, due to circumstances beyond my control,
I was forced to get a cell phone. While it does not happen often,
I do end up talking while on the road at times. I have found,
though, that with a headset, it is no more distracting for me
to talk on it, then, it is to talk with a passenger in the
car. Of course, I also make bloody sure to pay more attention
to the driving than the conversation.
I suspect that the big problem with cell phones and
driving IS the fact that we are trained from birth to pay
100 % of our attention to the phone conversation. Between
that training and the fact that a phone conversation is more
"in our heads" than coming from someone outside, it DOES
tend to attract more of our attention than it should.
While I waver back and forth on the issue, I generally
feel that we should not ban cell phone use in the vehicle,
just because it is a waste of time, and, we already have too
many laws in America that bring the fences in too close
to us citizens. It is a law that would be almost universally
ignored, and so would act to erode what little respect the
public still has for the structure of laws in this country.
It is also a law that could ONLY be enforced in a selective
fashion, which *would* mean that it would be abused by
the authorities. After all, if the cops ticketed EVERYONE
they caught using a cell phone while driving, not only would
they have a huge public outcry, but, doughnut sales would
drop terribly, and, (if this area is any example) about
half the tickets would go to cops themselves.
Regards
Dave Mundt

On 12 Jan 2005 09:26:51 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article .com,
Too_Many_Tools says...

Whether or not a cell phone driver wants to admit it, driving while
using a cell phone is an accident waiting to happen.

It's funny but nobody ever comes down on the *other* side
of this issue. Nobody ever posts, "yeah, I talk on the
phone all the time and it never causes a problem, you guys
are just nuts."

I have.

I suspect that even folks who do it, realize the trouble they
are setting themselves up for. Further I bet that even the
folks who do use phones while driving, without causing
crashes, are still infuriated by the 90 percent of the
phone users who really are morons and poor drivers.

That's about right.

My favorite cell phone story was at a very local intersection,
which is a five way crossroads, with a couple of lights there.

Some lady was on the phone, puttering along real slow. She
ran the red light and got herself fetched up crosswised in the
intersection, with her car pointing halfway between the two
roads out.

The amazing part was she had a marked state trooper car
following her the entire way. It was only once she actually
got herself stuck and had to back up and take another shot
at the intersection did he turn on his lights and pull her
over. She was totally clueless and completely immersed in
her phone call.

I wanted to stop and shake the trooper's hand, but my
daughter said she would never have forgiven me for making
a scene like that.

Jim

The best one I saw was a cop that drove between a car spun around
backwards with front end damage and in the middle lane and an RV into
a light pole with half the rear end ripped off. He kept on going under
the speed limit thinking of doughnuts !

This all reminds me that I need to redo the limo black tint on my
truck so some candy ass doesn't drop a dime on me.

They should go over the tons of laws before stupid new ones. Might as
well outlaw standard transmissions and talking to a passenger ! & eye
contact by any driver with the passenger. How about being billed
attorney time while he's thinking of your case on the road. LOL Maybe
treat them like open containers and no more advertisement near a road!

What would be really cool is on and off windshield tint. I've tried to
find it , I know they make it for buildings. Can it be cut? If they
have to see in isn't that profiling?


Sun shines, people forget.

In article .com,
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote:

Studies have shown that using a cell phone during driving diminshes
one's performance as much as driving under the influence of alcohol.

How about using the squad car radio?

--
Free men own guns, slaves don't
www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/

The bigger issue is that most people talking on a cell phone are
distracted away from the act of driving, whereas a pilot's radio is
actually an asset to aid him in coordinating his plane.


"!!!!!!!!!!!an asset to aid him in coordinating his plane??????????"
ROFLMAO...... You're kidding, right?

No. What's so funny. Isn't the purpose of radio comms to communicate
to the tower? and other planes. IE. Yes I am here. Yes I intend to
do this. Yes, my flight plan is this. Etc, etc.

JW

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 12:23:10 -0800, Sunworshipper wrote:

The best one I saw was a cop that drove between a car spun around
backwards with front end damage and in the middle lane and an RV into
a light pole with half the rear end ripped off. He kept on going under
the speed limit thinking of doughnuts !
This all reminds me that I need to redo the limo black tint on my
truck so some candy ass doesn't drop a dime on me.

Wow. It's _like_ English, but without the whole "meaning" thing.

Sun shines, people forget.

Yup.

In article , Dave Mundt says...

After all, if the cops ticketed EVERYONE
they caught using a cell phone while driving, not only would
they have a huge public outcry, ...

This is what's happening in NY state. I suspect that
pretty soon they will start running cell phone stops
just like the seatbelt stops.

That would be fine with me. As a motorbike rider I
view a minivan piloted by a cell-phone equipped
soccer mom about the same as ebola virus or something.

Jim


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==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

I think they need to be banned whie dring mysef. Its not ony speeders
etc that cause wrecks, its assholes tying up traffic whie shooting the
**** on a cell phone and peope get impatient and **** happens. Nothing
like setting through numerous red ights while some jerk is on a cell
phone and forgets he is at a traffic light, or have some asshoe breeze
by at 100 mphg with a eg up on the door, laid down low in the seat
with a cell phone stuck in his ear. Most folks can't drive sensibly
without a phone in their ear, yet aone with one. Alabama is kicking
it around and it may just well pass this time.

REMEMBER: "This is worth repeating for benefit of al newbies!
Jo Ann asked Dr. Sooooooooooooooooolow to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold
the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from
helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for
diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject. Get your fish at Dandy Orandas
Dandy Orandas Dandy Orandas........you guys got that DANDY ORANDAS

On 12 Jan 2005 21:34:58 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 12:23:10 -0800, Sunworshipper wrote:

The best one I saw was a cop that drove between a car spun around
backwards with front end damage and in the middle lane and an RV into
a light pole with half the rear end ripped off. He kept on going under
the speed limit thinking of doughnuts !
This all reminds me that I need to redo the limo black tint on my
truck so some candy ass doesn't drop a dime on me.

Wow. It's _like_ English, but without the whole "meaning" thing.

Sun shines, people forget.

Yup.

Now what ? Did I leave something important out that you need? Maybe a
sentence _like_ humans paying attention? Ever run a machine and talk
on the phone?

If your so bright and take the time to be critical , why don't you
correct my bad English ! I asked questions in class (many English
classes) and they never could answer either. Ignore me , won't be the
first time.

I don't have a problem with cell phones. One time I said I'd call
back cause I was trying to follow badly placed orange cones. Some
people can't admit a limitation and just fix it if it's a problem.
Kind of like people say I have a friend with a problem story instead
of coming out and saying it ! Or have I left out the plain English of
what I'm talking about?


Yup? _Like_ You can see the stars and not see the light.

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:24:15 -0800, Sunworshipper wrote:
On 12 Jan 2005 21:34:58 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 12:23:10 -0800, Sunworshipper wrote:

The best one I saw was a cop that drove between a car spun around
backwards with front end damage and in the middle lane and an RV into
a light pole with half the rear end ripped off. He kept on going under
the speed limit thinking of doughnuts !
This all reminds me that I need to redo the limo black tint on my
truck so some candy ass doesn't drop a dime on me.

Wow. It's _like_ English, but without the whole "meaning" thing.

Sun shines, people forget.

Yup.

Now what ? Did I leave something important out that you need? Maybe a
sentence _like_ humans paying attention? Ever run a machine and talk
on the phone?

"redo the limo black tint" "drop a dime", the whole cop/donut thing...
Mindless/meaningless (one might say, ahem, 'trollish') gibberish.

If your so bright and take the time to be critical , why don't you
correct my bad English ! I asked questions in class (many English
classes) and they never could answer either. Ignore me , won't be the
first time.

I can't _understand_ you. It seems like you're intensely trying
to make a point, but whatever it is, isn't coming through.

I don't have a problem with cell phones. One time I said I'd call
back cause I was trying to follow badly placed orange cones. Some
people can't admit a limitation and just fix it if it's a problem.
Kind of like people say I have a friend with a problem story instead
of coming out and saying it ! Or have I left out the plain English of
what I'm talking about?

OK, I got it, you don't like cellphones.

Yup? _Like_ You can see the stars and not see the light.

There you go again.

On 12 Jan 2005 22:28:27 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:24:15 -0800, Sunworshipper wrote:
On 12 Jan 2005 21:34:58 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 12:23:10 -0800, Sunworshipper wrote:

The best one I saw was a cop that drove between a car spun around
backwards with front end damage and in the middle lane and an RV into
a light pole with half the rear end ripped off. He kept on going under
the speed limit thinking of doughnuts !
This all reminds me that I need to redo the limo black tint on my
truck so some candy ass doesn't drop a dime on me.

Wow. It's _like_ English, but without the whole "meaning" thing.

Sun shines, people forget.

Yup.

Now what ? Did I leave something important out that you need? Maybe a
sentence _like_ humans paying attention? Ever run a machine and talk
on the phone?

"redo the limo black tint" "drop a dime", the whole cop/donut thing...
Mindless/meaningless (one might say, ahem, 'trollish') gibberish.

If your so bright and take the time to be critical , why don't you
correct my bad English ! I asked questions in class (many English
classes) and they never could answer either. Ignore me , won't be the
first time.

I can't _understand_ you. It seems like you're intensely trying
to make a point, but whatever it is, isn't coming through.

I don't have a problem with cell phones. One time I said I'd call
back cause I was trying to follow badly placed orange cones. Some
people can't admit a limitation and just fix it if it's a problem.
Kind of like people say I have a friend with a problem story instead
of coming out and saying it ! Or have I left out the plain English of
what I'm talking about?

OK, I got it, you don't like cellphones.

Yup? _Like_ You can see the stars and not see the light.

There you go again.

Your not serious ? Talk about trolling , can you row and troll at the
same time?

If you really did miss the cop thing . The cop squeezed between two
wrecked vehicles with people hurt and didn't EVEN _see_ IT !

rshipper" wrote in message
...
On 12 Jan 2005 22:28:27 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:24:15 -0800, Sunworshipper
wrote:
On 12 Jan 2005 21:34:58 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 12:23:10 -0800, Sunworshipper
wrote:

The best one I saw was a cop that drove between a car spun around
backwards with front end damage and in the middle lane and an RV into
a light pole with half the rear end ripped off. He kept on going under
the speed limit thinking of doughnuts !
This all reminds me that I need to redo the limo black tint on my
truck so some candy ass doesn't drop a dime on me.

Wow. It's _like_ English, but without the whole "meaning" thing.

Sun shines, people forget.

Yup.

Now what ? Did I leave something important out that you need? Maybe a
sentence _like_ humans paying attention? Ever run a machine and talk
on the phone?

"redo the limo black tint" "drop a dime", the whole cop/donut thing...
Mindless/meaningless (one might say, ahem, 'trollish') gibberish.

If your so bright and take the time to be critical , why don't you
correct my bad English ! I asked questions in class (many English
classes) and they never could answer either. Ignore me , won't be the
first time.

I can't _understand_ you. It seems like you're intensely trying
to make a point, but whatever it is, isn't coming through.

I don't have a problem with cell phones. One time I said I'd call
back cause I was trying to follow badly placed orange cones. Some
people can't admit a limitation and just fix it if it's a problem.
Kind of like people say I have a friend with a problem story instead
of coming out and saying it ! Or have I left out the plain English of
what I'm talking about?

OK, I got it, you don't like cellphones.

Yup? _Like_ You can see the stars and not see the light.

There you go again.

Your not serious ? Talk about trolling , can you row and troll at the
same time?

If you really did miss the cop thing . The cop squeezed between two
wrecked vehicles with people hurt and didn't EVEN _see_ IT !


Oh he saw it and most likely reported it but had a higher priority call and
was informed to keep going. Been there, done that, couldn't even stop to
explain.

Clif

On 12 Jan 2005 20:11:51 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:



I use the phone in my car on occasion, and I'd like to think
that it hasn't caused any problems. Is that close enough?
I work in IT, and when the phone rings, I have to answer it,
because that's part of what my salary pays for.

I don't have a problem with cell phones so much as the guy driving
down the freeway, trying to read the road map (magazine, newspaper,
pocket novel) spread on the steering wheel, looking around the naked
girlfriend straddling his lap.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada

"Nick Hull" wrote

Accidents occur while the driver is drinking coffee, we should ban
drive-up windows.


Well, Nick. A University of Utah study showed that drunk drivers drive
better than people who are driving while talking on a cell phone.

While crotch burning coffee has probably caused some wrecks and a landmark
Stella style lawsuit, it doesn't have a lot to do with the real world
subject of someone talking on the cell while driving.

We already have laws on the books regarding "failure to give full time and
attention" to driving. Citations have been issued in the past. Where the
law enforcement community missed the bus is when they didn't start writing
citations as soon as cell phones came on the market. People should also be
cited for putting on makeup, eating, slapping their kids, reading, working
their palm pilot, or doing anything that takes them away from their driving.

This subject is close to my heart, as a child of a friend of mine died in an
accident where the driver of the other car was absorbed in a cell phone
conversation and didn't see the red light. We are not talking about what-if
cases. We are talking about bodies in the morgue that look like someone
attacked them with a chainsaw.

And all needless.

How many cell phone conversations are needless? How many people have you
seen wandering the aisles of the grocery store, spouting all manner of
personal, intimate, delicate conversation that would make a therapist blush?
Or just "Hi ..... what you doin' .......... oh, nothin .......... " And a
lot of them talking at double volume. Who in the hell needs 1,000 minutes
of talk time a month besides a telemarketer or a real estate agent, or
businessman? That's 16.6 HOURS a month. If you have to talk that much, you
need a shrink.

If you are guiding a 3,000# vehicle at 50 mph while talking on a cell, you
are a total idiot. You shouldn't be allowed to go out of the house without
adult supervision, let alone have a driver's license. Is it so important
that you would have the life of a seven year old on your conscience for the
rest of your life? Or would that bother you at all, because your girlfriend
calling about her new lingerie is more important than a seven year old?

Each man sets his own standard.

Or not.

Steve

"Ian Stirling" wrote


Using a non-hands-free phone.


Some people are incapable of talking without their hands.

Steve

Actually, I'd just settle for a presumption of "impaired driver" if
anyone has an accident while using a cell phone. ie automatically your
fault.

Too_Many_Tools wrote:
Long over due.

In a recent bout of dangerous winter weather, the news media and the
police were repeatily telling people to get the *&^% of the phones and
concentrate on driving.

It is also common practice to check phone logs now when an accident
occurs.

Studies have shown that using a cell phone during driving diminshes
one's performance as much as driving under the influence of alcohol.

Locally, we have had several accidents where pedestrians were killed by
cell phone drivers. The cell phone use was a determining factor in the
latter conviction and imprisonment of the drivers.

In my personal experience with the close calls I have had with other
drivers, EVERY ONE of them has involved the other driver talking on the
cell phone and not paying attention to their driving. Several of those
have been with the other driver running a red light at full bore while
focused on the phone and not their surroundings.

Whether or not a cell phone driver wants to admit it, driving while
using a cell phone is an accident waiting to happen.

When one adds all this up, I would consider banning cell phones during
driving to be a good move.

FYI....there is development currently going on where the black box of
your car will monitor for internal cell phone usage and record that
fact if the car is under operation. Its intent is to allow police and
insurance companies to determine if the cell was in use during vehicle
operation. How they will determine whether or not the driver was the
one using the phone is the sticky issue at this time.

TMT

In article ,
Dave Hinz wrote:
On 12 Jan 2005 09:26:51 -0800, jim rozen wrote:
In article .com,
Too_Many_Tools says...

Whether or not a cell phone driver wants to admit it, driving while
using a cell phone is an accident waiting to happen.

It's funny but nobody ever comes down on the *other* side
of this issue. Nobody ever posts, "yeah, I talk on the
phone all the time and it never causes a problem, you guys
are just nuts."

I use the phone in my car on occasion, and I'd like to think
that it hasn't caused any problems. Is that close enough?
I work in IT, and when the phone rings, I have to answer it,
because that's part of what my salary pays for.


So you leave the phone on when you are in an airplane in flight too? Let
voicemail take it and call them back. That is one of my buttons. Unless you
are the President or a doctor you _don't_ have to answer it. Heck, I'm not
even sure the President gets included in the list. Somehow we have all
become slaves to our own inflated self importance. Inconvience does not mean
the end of the world. Sorry, who let that soap box in here...?

I have taken phones away from drivers who were drifting in and out of lanes.
I have told the person on the other end that they are driving and will be
happy to call them back when it is safer. I have never gotten a bad response
from anyone but the driver who insists that it wasn't a problem and then has
to yank the car back into their lane.

I suspect that even folks who do it, realize the trouble they
are setting themselves up for. Further I bet that even the
folks who do use phones while driving, without causing
crashes, are still infuriated by the 90 percent of the
phone users who really are morons and poor drivers.

Yes. A bad driver is a bad driver with or without a cellphone.


But a cell phone seems to be an instant "square root and invert" function.

-- Joe

--
Joseph M. Krzeszewski Mechanical Engineering and stuff
Jack of All Trades, Master of None... Yet

Actually it is quite common and required to transmit blind. Uncontrolled
airports use Unicom frequencies and you announce your intentions to the wide
open spaces incase somebody else has intentions of being where you plan to
go and you just haven't spotted each other. But you usually have a headset
and a button on the yoke for PTT and sometimes even freqencies .. comm/nav
etc. For commercial flights you have two people driving. All that aside I
think people should either hang up and drive or pull over and talk.
Glenn

"Gene Kearns" wrote in message
...
On 12 Jan 2005 13:33:01 -0800, wrote:

SNIP"!!!!!!!!!!!an asset to aid him in coordinating his plane??????????"
ROFLMAO...... You're kidding, right?

No. What's so funny. Isn't the purpose of radio comms to communicate
to the tower? and other planes. IE. Yes I am here. Yes I intend to
do this. Yes, my flight plan is this. Etc, etc.

JW

Let's just say that if you are talking on the radio, chances are you
are being directed where to go and at what altitude... flight
plan.... sort of like.. the phone rings and somebody changes all of
your plans....

otherwise, you might be transmitting in the blind, announcing your
position and *hoping* that somebody is listening...
--

..

Ian Stirling wrote:

Leon Heller wrote:

http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller
"Unknown" wrote in message
. ..

I have the pictures but this URL will demo that they are not fakes.
This occurred about 75 miles from where I live.

http://www.frazeeforum.com/

Using a phone whilst driving has been illegal for a few months here in the
UK.


Using a non-hands-free phone.

Wow - you mean - non-hands driving while using the phone now ?! :-)

I think they passed it here on the left coast - Ca. Can't tell it by looking.
Not much press or anything here.

Martin

--
Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

Gene Kearns wrote:

On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 06:10:50 -0500, Nick Hull
wrote:


In article ,
Unknown wrote:


I have the pictures but this URL will demo that they are not fakes.
This occurred about 75 miles from where I live.

http://www.frazeeforum.com/

Accidents occur while the driver is drinking coffee, we should ban
drive-up windows.


I am particularly amused by this line of argument about making cell
phone use illegal..... while pilots are *required* by law to chat on
the radio... all the while maintaining control in 3-space not
2-space.... in all phases of flight.

The bottom line is that people too dense to be able to divide their
attention shouldn't be driving anyway... chances are that dame would
have rear-ended that trailer because she was sipping a drink, lighting
a cigarette, checking her makeup, or looking at something that caught
her eye out of the side window..... cell phones make a convenient
scapegoat... next up for litigation will be rear view mirrors, maps,
GPSs.....
I think the whole thing came on when the insurance industry had the police
and highway types itemize on-cell or not - with belt or not.....
for the stats and then that changed the whole thing.

The person might be putting on lipstick, brushing hair, driving and eating while
using the cell phone. I have seen people brush out rolled up hair and others
reading newspapers. Then there is the carpool issues.

It is simply control and another (sorry Mom) Mother law. The government
has deemed itself to be everyones 'Mother' and care for the children...

Martin

--
Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

Dave Hinz wrote:

On 12 Jan 2005 09:26:51 -0800, jim rozen wrote:

In article .com,
Too_Many_Tools says...


Whether or not a cell phone driver wants to admit it, driving while
using a cell phone is an accident waiting to happen.

It's funny but nobody ever comes down on the *other* side
of this issue. Nobody ever posts, "yeah, I talk on the
phone all the time and it never causes a problem, you guys
are just nuts."


I use the phone in my car on occasion, and I'd like to think
that it hasn't caused any problems. Is that close enough?
I work in IT, and when the phone rings, I have to answer it,
because that's part of what my salary pays for.


I suspect that even folks who do it, realize the trouble they
are setting themselves up for. Further I bet that even the
folks who do use phones while driving, without causing
crashes, are still infuriated by the 90 percent of the
phone users who really are morons and poor drivers.


Yes. A bad driver is a bad driver with or without a cellphone.

And just when these nay sayers get the phones out of the cars, a
major smear occurs and needs a call for help.

I have my wife take hers - I got one just for this - have it
so when she gets a flat or out of gas or gets run into - she can
call AAA, Me, Her work people, who she wants or needs.
One never knows when one will be over the edge on a curve or just
in a bad spot were there isn't a phone or periodic patrol.

Martin

--
Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

SteveB wrote:

"Ian Stirling" wrote


Using a non-hands-free phone.


Some people are incapable of talking without their hands.

Well, yes.
But there is a fairly strong and reasonable argument that using half of
your hands to clamp a phone to the side of your head is probably not good
while driving.

In article , Martin H. Eastburn
says...

simply control and another (sorry Mom) Mother law. The government
has deemed itself to be everyones 'Mother' and care for the children...

Respectfully, no.

This issue is not another helmet or seatbelt law thing.

The actions of drivers on public roads affect *all* the other
drivers. A person's car interior is not their own personal
living room, it is travelling down a highway that many
other people are using at the same time.

This the reason that I can vote against helmet or seatbelt
laws, and FOR a law that prohibits drivers from being
distracted by phone conversations.

Those are fundamentally different issues.

The right to chatter on a phone in the car *stops* when my
right to travel safely _starts_.

Jim


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On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 17:25:45 -0800, SteveB wrote:

"Nick Hull" wrote

Accidents occur while the driver is drinking coffee, we should ban
drive-up windows.


Well, Nick. A University of Utah study showed that drunk drivers drive
better than people who are driving while talking on a cell phone.

Cite, please? I bet there's qualifiers in there about how drunk,
and so on.

On Thu, 13 Jan 2005 01:46:36 +0000 (UTC), () wrote:
In article ,
Dave Hinz wrote:

I use the phone in my car on occasion, and I'd like to think
that it hasn't caused any problems. Is that close enough?
I work in IT, and when the phone rings, I have to answer it,
because that's part of what my salary pays for.

So you leave the phone on when you are in an airplane in flight too?

Doesn't apply, haven't flown in years, and when I do I'm on vacation.
Thanks for trying to speak for me, though.

Let
voicemail take it and call them back. That is one of my buttons. Unless you
are the President or a doctor you _don't_ have to answer it.

Well, there's this whole "keeping my job to feed my family" thing.

Heck, I'm not
even sure the President gets included in the list. Somehow we have all
become slaves to our own inflated self importance. Inconvience does not mean
the end of the world. Sorry, who let that soap box in here...?

If the e-commerce site I'm responsible is down, the shareholders lose
an immense amount of money. Because people like the CFO and CTO consider
that to be a problem, they consider speedy response to IT problems to
be a priority. Maybe you can't answer a phone safely and talk into
a headset, but I would like to think I'm capable of doing so.

I have taken phones away from drivers who were drifting in and out of lanes.
I have told the person on the other end that they are driving and will be
happy to call them back when it is safer.

Didn't you just say you wouldn't answer for anybody? Your story has
changed.

I have never gotten a bad response
from anyone but the driver who insists that it wasn't a problem and then has
to yank the car back into their lane.

Let me get this straight. You, as a passenger, yanked the phone out
of the driver's hand? Do you step on the brakes for him too? You
would not be welcome in my car.


Yes. A bad driver is a bad driver with or without a cellphone.

But a cell phone seems to be an instant "square root and invert" function.

In your opinion. Maybe you don't notice all the good drivers with
cellphones because, ahem, they're _good drivers_.

In article , Dave Hinz says...

If the e-commerce site I'm responsible is down, the shareholders lose
an immense amount of money.

Boo hoo. If you cause an crash because you're on the phone,
folks die. Hang up and drive. Or go park somewhere and
chat to your hearts content.

Jim


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