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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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O.T Ban cell phones while driving
I have the pictures but this URL will demo that they are not fakes. This occurred about 75 miles from where I live. http://www.frazeeforum.com/ |
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In article , Unknown says...
I have the pictures but this URL will demo that they are not fakes. This occurred about 75 miles from where I live. http://www.frazeeforum.com/ Heh. Around here you are too late my friend. NY has already made using a hand-held phone while driving, a ticketable offence. Next, it will be using any phone at all while behind the wheel. I think folks should be allowed to talk on the phone while driving. As long as the driver's seat is in front of the front bumper. Jim -- ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
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http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller
"Unknown" wrote in message ... I have the pictures but this URL will demo that they are not fakes. This occurred about 75 miles from where I live. http://www.frazeeforum.com/ Using a phone whilst driving has been illegal for a few months here in the UK. Leon -- Leon Heller, G1HSM |
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In article ,
Unknown wrote: I have the pictures but this URL will demo that they are not fakes. This occurred about 75 miles from where I live. http://www.frazeeforum.com/ Accidents occur while the driver is drinking coffee, we should ban drive-up windows. -- Free men own guns, slaves don't www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/ |
#5
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In article , Gene Kearns says...
I am particularly amused by this line of argument about making cell phone use illegal..... while pilots are *required* by law to chat on the radio... all the while maintaining control in 3-space not 2-space.... in all phases of flight. I'd be willing to make an exception on this point. If the driver pulled over for cell phone use can present a valid instructor pilot certificate then the cop tears up the ticket.... Jim -- ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
#6
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Leon Heller wrote:
http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller "Unknown" wrote in message ... I have the pictures but this URL will demo that they are not fakes. This occurred about 75 miles from where I live. http://www.frazeeforum.com/ Using a phone whilst driving has been illegal for a few months here in the UK. Using a non-hands-free phone. |
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Two comments on this:
1) The pilot is discussing what he is actually doing. 2) Would you expect the same pilot to be talking on a handheld while landing at LAX in a crosswind, on one of the "busy" runways, etc. They use headsets for a reason. They also choose appropriate times to talk and appropriate times to concentrate on the bigger issue at hand. The bigger issue is that most people talking on a cell phone are distracted away from the act of driving, whereas a pilot's radio is actually an asset to aid him in coordinating his plane. I have no problem with someone talking on a phone when they are in "cruise mode". It's the guy sipping on a coffee, changing lanes, downshifting for the off ramp, talking on the phone, changing radio stations, etc all simultaneously that needs the ticket. Unfortunately we are not allowed to differentiate between prudent behavior and assinine behavior so I don't have much of an issue with banning cell phone use during driving. I'm not so important that I can't wait an extra 2 minutes to call whomever. JW jim rozen wrote: In article , Gene Kearns says... I am particularly amused by this line of argument about making cell phone use illegal..... while pilots are *required* by law to chat on the radio... all the while maintaining control in 3-space not 2-space.... in all phases of flight. I'd be willing to make an exception on this point. If the driver pulled over for cell phone use can present a valid instructor pilot certificate then the cop tears up the ticket.... Jim -- ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
#8
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"Gene Kearns" wrote in message ... On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 06:10:50 -0500, Nick Hull wrote: In article , Unknown wrote: I have the pictures but this URL will demo that they are not fakes. This occurred about 75 miles from where I live. http://www.frazeeforum.com/ Accidents occur while the driver is drinking coffee, we should ban drive-up windows. I am particularly amused by this line of argument about making cell phone use illegal..... while pilots are *required* by law to chat on the radio... all the while maintaining control in 3-space not 2-space.... in all phases of flight. The bottom line is that people too dense to be able to divide their attention shouldn't be driving anyway... chances are that dame would have rear-ended that trailer because she was sipping a drink, lighting a cigarette, checking her makeup, or looking at something that caught her eye out of the side window..... cell phones make a convenient scapegoat... next up for litigation will be rear view mirrors, maps, GPSs..... -- Homepage* http://myworkshop.idleplay.net/ * If you find that you are denied access to my web page, Please respond here with your IP address and I will see if I can open up access. I have been forced to blackhole large geographic regions outside of North America due to incessant spoofing and hacking attacks on my web server. Thanks. The common element is the driving not the other activities. Make getting the license harder and loosing it easier. as far as the pilot thing goes how often are the planes nose to tail like cars on a highway? what is the minimum seperation?? Pat |
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Long over due.
In a recent bout of dangerous winter weather, the news media and the police were repeatily telling people to get the *&^% of the phones and concentrate on driving. It is also common practice to check phone logs now when an accident occurs. Studies have shown that using a cell phone during driving diminshes one's performance as much as driving under the influence of alcohol. Locally, we have had several accidents where pedestrians were killed by cell phone drivers. The cell phone use was a determining factor in the latter conviction and imprisonment of the drivers. In my personal experience with the close calls I have had with other drivers, EVERY ONE of them has involved the other driver talking on the cell phone and not paying attention to their driving. Several of those have been with the other driver running a red light at full bore while focused on the phone and not their surroundings. Whether or not a cell phone driver wants to admit it, driving while using a cell phone is an accident waiting to happen. When one adds all this up, I would consider banning cell phones during driving to be a good move. FYI....there is development currently going on where the black box of your car will monitor for internal cell phone usage and record that fact if the car is under operation. Its intent is to allow police and insurance companies to determine if the cell was in use during vehicle operation. How they will determine whether or not the driver was the one using the phone is the sticky issue at this time. TMT |
#10
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In article ,
Nick Hull wrote: In article , Unknown wrote: I have the pictures but this URL will demo that they are not fakes. This occurred about 75 miles from where I live. http://www.frazeeforum.com/ Accidents occur while the driver is drinking coffee, we should ban drive-up windows. -- Free men own guns, slaves don't www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/ Nope, just cup holders. I don't have a steeringwheel on my coffee table, why should I have a cup holder in my car? -- Joe, no cup holders and won't use the phone while driving. -- Joseph M. Krzeszewski Mechanical Engineering and stuff Jack of All Trades, Master of None... Yet |
#11
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In article ,
Gene Kearns wrote: On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 06:10:50 -0500, Nick Hull wrote: In article , Unknown wrote: I have the pictures but this URL will demo that they are not fakes. This occurred about 75 miles from where I live. http://www.frazeeforum.com/ Accidents occur while the driver is drinking coffee, we should ban drive-up windows. I am particularly amused by this line of argument about making cell phone use illegal..... while pilots are *required* by law to chat on the radio... all the while maintaining control in 3-space not 2-space.... in all phases of flight. There is a difference here. When they start landing Cesna's three abreast and less than 100ft apart nose to tail, we can make the comparison. Likewise, if everyone went down the center lane of a three lane highway with a quarter mile between cars, you could do almost anything you want without incident. -- Joe -- Joseph M. Krzeszewski Mechanical Engineering and stuff Jack of All Trades, Master of None... Yet |
#12
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In article .com,
Too_Many_Tools says... Whether or not a cell phone driver wants to admit it, driving while using a cell phone is an accident waiting to happen. It's funny but nobody ever comes down on the *other* side of this issue. Nobody ever posts, "yeah, I talk on the phone all the time and it never causes a problem, you guys are just nuts." I suspect that even folks who do it, realize the trouble they are setting themselves up for. Further I bet that even the folks who do use phones while driving, without causing crashes, are still infuriated by the 90 percent of the phone users who really are morons and poor drivers. My favorite cell phone story was at a very local intersection, which is a five way crossroads, with a couple of lights there. Some lady was on the phone, puttering along real slow. She ran the red light and got herself fetched up crosswised in the intersection, with her car pointing halfway between the two roads out. The amazing part was she had a marked state trooper car following her the entire way. It was only once she actually got herself stuck and had to back up and take another shot at the intersection did he turn on his lights and pull her over. She was totally clueless and completely immersed in her phone call. I wanted to stop and shake the trooper's hand, but my daughter said she would never have forgiven me for making a scene like that. Jim -- ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
#13
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I am particularly amused by this line of argument about making cell phone use illegal..... while pilots are *required* by law to chat on the radio... all the while maintaining control in 3-space not 2-space.... in all phases of flight. Gene, I know you are a pilot - when was the last time you flew with another plane 6 feet off your wing tip? And I bet if you "chat" on the radio for 10 minutes on a control frequency you get a call from the FAA. There is some validity in your point though, the last time I almost got hit it was by someone wandering over into my lane because they were trying to program their dash mounted GPS. Steve. |
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Greetings and Salutations...
On 12 Jan 2005 09:26:51 -0800, jim rozen wrote: In article .com, Too_Many_Tools says... Whether or not a cell phone driver wants to admit it, driving while using a cell phone is an accident waiting to happen. It's funny but nobody ever comes down on the *other* side of this issue. Nobody ever posts, "yeah, I talk on the phone all the time and it never causes a problem, you guys are just nuts." *snip of amusing story* I am annoyed by folks that clasp the cell phone to their ear while driving, and, are not paying attention to the road...as a matter of fact, the majority of the close calls I have had in the past few years have COME from exactly that sort of stupid behavior. now...last year, due to circumstances beyond my control, I was forced to get a cell phone. While it does not happen often, I do end up talking while on the road at times. I have found, though, that with a headset, it is no more distracting for me to talk on it, then, it is to talk with a passenger in the car. Of course, I also make bloody sure to pay more attention to the driving than the conversation. I suspect that the big problem with cell phones and driving IS the fact that we are trained from birth to pay 100 % of our attention to the phone conversation. Between that training and the fact that a phone conversation is more "in our heads" than coming from someone outside, it DOES tend to attract more of our attention than it should. While I waver back and forth on the issue, I generally feel that we should not ban cell phone use in the vehicle, just because it is a waste of time, and, we already have too many laws in America that bring the fences in too close to us citizens. It is a law that would be almost universally ignored, and so would act to erode what little respect the public still has for the structure of laws in this country. It is also a law that could ONLY be enforced in a selective fashion, which *would* mean that it would be abused by the authorities. After all, if the cops ticketed EVERYONE they caught using a cell phone while driving, not only would they have a huge public outcry, but, doughnut sales would drop terribly, and, (if this area is any example) about half the tickets would go to cops themselves. Regards Dave Mundt |
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On 12 Jan 2005 09:26:51 -0800, jim rozen wrote:
In article .com, Too_Many_Tools says... Whether or not a cell phone driver wants to admit it, driving while using a cell phone is an accident waiting to happen. It's funny but nobody ever comes down on the *other* side of this issue. Nobody ever posts, "yeah, I talk on the phone all the time and it never causes a problem, you guys are just nuts." I use the phone in my car on occasion, and I'd like to think that it hasn't caused any problems. Is that close enough? I work in IT, and when the phone rings, I have to answer it, because that's part of what my salary pays for. I suspect that even folks who do it, realize the trouble they are setting themselves up for. Further I bet that even the folks who do use phones while driving, without causing crashes, are still infuriated by the 90 percent of the phone users who really are morons and poor drivers. Yes. A bad driver is a bad driver with or without a cellphone. |
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Good post, Dave - full of logic and common sense!
Cell phones are yet another example of the utter futility of extending the use of resources to the common man. Cellular telephony has come down in price so that just about everyone can afford one. Affordability does not necessarily bring common sense with it. IMO, cell phones should be a licensable entity extended only to those that can demonstrate a need for it. The FCC really dropped the ball on this one, folks! Worldwide corporate greed caused a great upsurge in the cellular market place until it is now out of control. We have given it to those that don't deserve it and cannot muster the common sense to use it intelligently. Sort of like giving a monkey a loaded gun - sooner or later he is going to shoot you in the ass with it! Bob Swinney "Dave Mundt" wrote in message ... Greetings and Salutations... On 12 Jan 2005 09:26:51 -0800, jim rozen wrote: In article .com, Too_Many_Tools says... Whether or not a cell phone driver wants to admit it, driving while using a cell phone is an accident waiting to happen. It's funny but nobody ever comes down on the *other* side of this issue. Nobody ever posts, "yeah, I talk on the phone all the time and it never causes a problem, you guys are just nuts." *snip of amusing story* I am annoyed by folks that clasp the cell phone to their ear while driving, and, are not paying attention to the road...as a matter of fact, the majority of the close calls I have had in the past few years have COME from exactly that sort of stupid behavior. now...last year, due to circumstances beyond my control, I was forced to get a cell phone. While it does not happen often, I do end up talking while on the road at times. I have found, though, that with a headset, it is no more distracting for me to talk on it, then, it is to talk with a passenger in the car. Of course, I also make bloody sure to pay more attention to the driving than the conversation. I suspect that the big problem with cell phones and driving IS the fact that we are trained from birth to pay 100 % of our attention to the phone conversation. Between that training and the fact that a phone conversation is more "in our heads" than coming from someone outside, it DOES tend to attract more of our attention than it should. While I waver back and forth on the issue, I generally feel that we should not ban cell phone use in the vehicle, just because it is a waste of time, and, we already have too many laws in America that bring the fences in too close to us citizens. It is a law that would be almost universally ignored, and so would act to erode what little respect the public still has for the structure of laws in this country. It is also a law that could ONLY be enforced in a selective fashion, which *would* mean that it would be abused by the authorities. After all, if the cops ticketed EVERYONE they caught using a cell phone while driving, not only would they have a huge public outcry, but, doughnut sales would drop terribly, and, (if this area is any example) about half the tickets would go to cops themselves. Regards Dave Mundt |
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On 12 Jan 2005 09:26:51 -0800, jim rozen
wrote: In article .com, Too_Many_Tools says... Whether or not a cell phone driver wants to admit it, driving while using a cell phone is an accident waiting to happen. It's funny but nobody ever comes down on the *other* side of this issue. Nobody ever posts, "yeah, I talk on the phone all the time and it never causes a problem, you guys are just nuts." I have. I suspect that even folks who do it, realize the trouble they are setting themselves up for. Further I bet that even the folks who do use phones while driving, without causing crashes, are still infuriated by the 90 percent of the phone users who really are morons and poor drivers. That's about right. My favorite cell phone story was at a very local intersection, which is a five way crossroads, with a couple of lights there. Some lady was on the phone, puttering along real slow. She ran the red light and got herself fetched up crosswised in the intersection, with her car pointing halfway between the two roads out. The amazing part was she had a marked state trooper car following her the entire way. It was only once she actually got herself stuck and had to back up and take another shot at the intersection did he turn on his lights and pull her over. She was totally clueless and completely immersed in her phone call. I wanted to stop and shake the trooper's hand, but my daughter said she would never have forgiven me for making a scene like that. Jim The best one I saw was a cop that drove between a car spun around backwards with front end damage and in the middle lane and an RV into a light pole with half the rear end ripped off. He kept on going under the speed limit thinking of doughnuts ! This all reminds me that I need to redo the limo black tint on my truck so some candy ass doesn't drop a dime on me. They should go over the tons of laws before stupid new ones. Might as well outlaw standard transmissions and talking to a passenger ! & eye contact by any driver with the passenger. How about being billed attorney time while he's thinking of your case on the road. LOL Maybe treat them like open containers and no more advertisement near a road! What would be really cool is on and off windshield tint. I've tried to find it , I know they make it for buildings. Can it be cut? If they have to see in isn't that profiling? Sun shines, people forget. |
#18
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In article .com,
"Too_Many_Tools" wrote: Studies have shown that using a cell phone during driving diminshes one's performance as much as driving under the influence of alcohol. How about using the squad car radio? -- Free men own guns, slaves don't www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/5357/ |
#19
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The bigger issue is that most people talking on a cell phone are
distracted away from the act of driving, whereas a pilot's radio is actually an asset to aid him in coordinating his plane. "!!!!!!!!!!!an asset to aid him in coordinating his plane??????????" ROFLMAO...... You're kidding, right? No. What's so funny. Isn't the purpose of radio comms to communicate to the tower? and other planes. IE. Yes I am here. Yes I intend to do this. Yes, my flight plan is this. Etc, etc. JW |
#20
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On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 12:23:10 -0800, Sunworshipper wrote:
The best one I saw was a cop that drove between a car spun around backwards with front end damage and in the middle lane and an RV into a light pole with half the rear end ripped off. He kept on going under the speed limit thinking of doughnuts ! This all reminds me that I need to redo the limo black tint on my truck so some candy ass doesn't drop a dime on me. Wow. It's _like_ English, but without the whole "meaning" thing. Sun shines, people forget. Yup. |
#21
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In article , Dave Mundt says...
After all, if the cops ticketed EVERYONE they caught using a cell phone while driving, not only would they have a huge public outcry, ... This is what's happening in NY state. I suspect that pretty soon they will start running cell phone stops just like the seatbelt stops. That would be fine with me. As a motorbike rider I view a minivan piloted by a cell-phone equipped soccer mom about the same as ebola virus or something. Jim -- ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
#22
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I think they need to be banned whie dring mysef. Its not ony speeders
etc that cause wrecks, its assholes tying up traffic whie shooting the **** on a cell phone and peope get impatient and **** happens. Nothing like setting through numerous red ights while some jerk is on a cell phone and forgets he is at a traffic light, or have some asshoe breeze by at 100 mphg with a eg up on the door, laid down low in the seat with a cell phone stuck in his ear. Most folks can't drive sensibly without a phone in their ear, yet aone with one. Alabama is kicking it around and it may just well pass this time. REMEMBER: "This is worth repeating for benefit of al newbies! Jo Ann asked Dr. Sooooooooooooooooolow to remind people that while she has retired from selling GF (and sold the business to Ken Fischer http://dandyorandas.com/) she has NOT retired from helping people with sick GF and koi FOR FREE. 251-649-4790 phoning is best for diagnosis. but, can try email put "help sick fish" in subject. Get your fish at Dandy Orandas Dandy Orandas Dandy Orandas........you guys got that DANDY ORANDAS |
#23
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On 12 Jan 2005 21:34:58 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 12:23:10 -0800, Sunworshipper wrote: The best one I saw was a cop that drove between a car spun around backwards with front end damage and in the middle lane and an RV into a light pole with half the rear end ripped off. He kept on going under the speed limit thinking of doughnuts ! This all reminds me that I need to redo the limo black tint on my truck so some candy ass doesn't drop a dime on me. Wow. It's _like_ English, but without the whole "meaning" thing. Sun shines, people forget. Yup. Now what ? Did I leave something important out that you need? Maybe a sentence _like_ humans paying attention? Ever run a machine and talk on the phone? If your so bright and take the time to be critical , why don't you correct my bad English ! I asked questions in class (many English classes) and they never could answer either. Ignore me , won't be the first time. I don't have a problem with cell phones. One time I said I'd call back cause I was trying to follow badly placed orange cones. Some people can't admit a limitation and just fix it if it's a problem. Kind of like people say I have a friend with a problem story instead of coming out and saying it ! Or have I left out the plain English of what I'm talking about? Yup? _Like_ You can see the stars and not see the light. |
#24
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On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:24:15 -0800, Sunworshipper wrote:
On 12 Jan 2005 21:34:58 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote: On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 12:23:10 -0800, Sunworshipper wrote: The best one I saw was a cop that drove between a car spun around backwards with front end damage and in the middle lane and an RV into a light pole with half the rear end ripped off. He kept on going under the speed limit thinking of doughnuts ! This all reminds me that I need to redo the limo black tint on my truck so some candy ass doesn't drop a dime on me. Wow. It's _like_ English, but without the whole "meaning" thing. Sun shines, people forget. Yup. Now what ? Did I leave something important out that you need? Maybe a sentence _like_ humans paying attention? Ever run a machine and talk on the phone? "redo the limo black tint" "drop a dime", the whole cop/donut thing... Mindless/meaningless (one might say, ahem, 'trollish') gibberish. If your so bright and take the time to be critical , why don't you correct my bad English ! I asked questions in class (many English classes) and they never could answer either. Ignore me , won't be the first time. I can't _understand_ you. It seems like you're intensely trying to make a point, but whatever it is, isn't coming through. I don't have a problem with cell phones. One time I said I'd call back cause I was trying to follow badly placed orange cones. Some people can't admit a limitation and just fix it if it's a problem. Kind of like people say I have a friend with a problem story instead of coming out and saying it ! Or have I left out the plain English of what I'm talking about? OK, I got it, you don't like cellphones. Yup? _Like_ You can see the stars and not see the light. There you go again. |
#25
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On 12 Jan 2005 22:28:27 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:24:15 -0800, Sunworshipper wrote: On 12 Jan 2005 21:34:58 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote: On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 12:23:10 -0800, Sunworshipper wrote: The best one I saw was a cop that drove between a car spun around backwards with front end damage and in the middle lane and an RV into a light pole with half the rear end ripped off. He kept on going under the speed limit thinking of doughnuts ! This all reminds me that I need to redo the limo black tint on my truck so some candy ass doesn't drop a dime on me. Wow. It's _like_ English, but without the whole "meaning" thing. Sun shines, people forget. Yup. Now what ? Did I leave something important out that you need? Maybe a sentence _like_ humans paying attention? Ever run a machine and talk on the phone? "redo the limo black tint" "drop a dime", the whole cop/donut thing... Mindless/meaningless (one might say, ahem, 'trollish') gibberish. If your so bright and take the time to be critical , why don't you correct my bad English ! I asked questions in class (many English classes) and they never could answer either. Ignore me , won't be the first time. I can't _understand_ you. It seems like you're intensely trying to make a point, but whatever it is, isn't coming through. I don't have a problem with cell phones. One time I said I'd call back cause I was trying to follow badly placed orange cones. Some people can't admit a limitation and just fix it if it's a problem. Kind of like people say I have a friend with a problem story instead of coming out and saying it ! Or have I left out the plain English of what I'm talking about? OK, I got it, you don't like cellphones. Yup? _Like_ You can see the stars and not see the light. There you go again. Your not serious ? Talk about trolling , can you row and troll at the same time? If you really did miss the cop thing . The cop squeezed between two wrecked vehicles with people hurt and didn't EVEN _see_ IT ! |
#26
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rshipper" wrote in message
... On 12 Jan 2005 22:28:27 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote: On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 14:24:15 -0800, Sunworshipper wrote: On 12 Jan 2005 21:34:58 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote: On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 12:23:10 -0800, Sunworshipper wrote: The best one I saw was a cop that drove between a car spun around backwards with front end damage and in the middle lane and an RV into a light pole with half the rear end ripped off. He kept on going under the speed limit thinking of doughnuts ! This all reminds me that I need to redo the limo black tint on my truck so some candy ass doesn't drop a dime on me. Wow. It's _like_ English, but without the whole "meaning" thing. Sun shines, people forget. Yup. Now what ? Did I leave something important out that you need? Maybe a sentence _like_ humans paying attention? Ever run a machine and talk on the phone? "redo the limo black tint" "drop a dime", the whole cop/donut thing... Mindless/meaningless (one might say, ahem, 'trollish') gibberish. If your so bright and take the time to be critical , why don't you correct my bad English ! I asked questions in class (many English classes) and they never could answer either. Ignore me , won't be the first time. I can't _understand_ you. It seems like you're intensely trying to make a point, but whatever it is, isn't coming through. I don't have a problem with cell phones. One time I said I'd call back cause I was trying to follow badly placed orange cones. Some people can't admit a limitation and just fix it if it's a problem. Kind of like people say I have a friend with a problem story instead of coming out and saying it ! Or have I left out the plain English of what I'm talking about? OK, I got it, you don't like cellphones. Yup? _Like_ You can see the stars and not see the light. There you go again. Your not serious ? Talk about trolling , can you row and troll at the same time? If you really did miss the cop thing . The cop squeezed between two wrecked vehicles with people hurt and didn't EVEN _see_ IT ! Oh he saw it and most likely reported it but had a higher priority call and was informed to keep going. Been there, done that, couldn't even stop to explain. Clif |
#27
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On 12 Jan 2005 20:11:51 GMT, Dave Hinz wrote:
I use the phone in my car on occasion, and I'd like to think that it hasn't caused any problems. Is that close enough? I work in IT, and when the phone rings, I have to answer it, because that's part of what my salary pays for. I don't have a problem with cell phones so much as the guy driving down the freeway, trying to read the road map (magazine, newspaper, pocket novel) spread on the steering wheel, looking around the naked girlfriend straddling his lap. Gerry :-)} London, Canada |
#28
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"Nick Hull" wrote Accidents occur while the driver is drinking coffee, we should ban drive-up windows. Well, Nick. A University of Utah study showed that drunk drivers drive better than people who are driving while talking on a cell phone. While crotch burning coffee has probably caused some wrecks and a landmark Stella style lawsuit, it doesn't have a lot to do with the real world subject of someone talking on the cell while driving. We already have laws on the books regarding "failure to give full time and attention" to driving. Citations have been issued in the past. Where the law enforcement community missed the bus is when they didn't start writing citations as soon as cell phones came on the market. People should also be cited for putting on makeup, eating, slapping their kids, reading, working their palm pilot, or doing anything that takes them away from their driving. This subject is close to my heart, as a child of a friend of mine died in an accident where the driver of the other car was absorbed in a cell phone conversation and didn't see the red light. We are not talking about what-if cases. We are talking about bodies in the morgue that look like someone attacked them with a chainsaw. And all needless. How many cell phone conversations are needless? How many people have you seen wandering the aisles of the grocery store, spouting all manner of personal, intimate, delicate conversation that would make a therapist blush? Or just "Hi ..... what you doin' .......... oh, nothin .......... " And a lot of them talking at double volume. Who in the hell needs 1,000 minutes of talk time a month besides a telemarketer or a real estate agent, or businessman? That's 16.6 HOURS a month. If you have to talk that much, you need a shrink. If you are guiding a 3,000# vehicle at 50 mph while talking on a cell, you are a total idiot. You shouldn't be allowed to go out of the house without adult supervision, let alone have a driver's license. Is it so important that you would have the life of a seven year old on your conscience for the rest of your life? Or would that bother you at all, because your girlfriend calling about her new lingerie is more important than a seven year old? Each man sets his own standard. Or not. Steve |
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"Ian Stirling" wrote Using a non-hands-free phone. Some people are incapable of talking without their hands. Steve |
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Actually, I'd just settle for a presumption of "impaired driver" if
anyone has an accident while using a cell phone. ie automatically your fault. Too_Many_Tools wrote: Long over due. In a recent bout of dangerous winter weather, the news media and the police were repeatily telling people to get the *&^% of the phones and concentrate on driving. It is also common practice to check phone logs now when an accident occurs. Studies have shown that using a cell phone during driving diminshes one's performance as much as driving under the influence of alcohol. Locally, we have had several accidents where pedestrians were killed by cell phone drivers. The cell phone use was a determining factor in the latter conviction and imprisonment of the drivers. In my personal experience with the close calls I have had with other drivers, EVERY ONE of them has involved the other driver talking on the cell phone and not paying attention to their driving. Several of those have been with the other driver running a red light at full bore while focused on the phone and not their surroundings. Whether or not a cell phone driver wants to admit it, driving while using a cell phone is an accident waiting to happen. When one adds all this up, I would consider banning cell phones during driving to be a good move. FYI....there is development currently going on where the black box of your car will monitor for internal cell phone usage and record that fact if the car is under operation. Its intent is to allow police and insurance companies to determine if the cell was in use during vehicle operation. How they will determine whether or not the driver was the one using the phone is the sticky issue at this time. TMT |
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In article ,
Dave Hinz wrote: On 12 Jan 2005 09:26:51 -0800, jim rozen wrote: In article .com, Too_Many_Tools says... Whether or not a cell phone driver wants to admit it, driving while using a cell phone is an accident waiting to happen. It's funny but nobody ever comes down on the *other* side of this issue. Nobody ever posts, "yeah, I talk on the phone all the time and it never causes a problem, you guys are just nuts." I use the phone in my car on occasion, and I'd like to think that it hasn't caused any problems. Is that close enough? I work in IT, and when the phone rings, I have to answer it, because that's part of what my salary pays for. So you leave the phone on when you are in an airplane in flight too? Let voicemail take it and call them back. That is one of my buttons. Unless you are the President or a doctor you _don't_ have to answer it. Heck, I'm not even sure the President gets included in the list. Somehow we have all become slaves to our own inflated self importance. Inconvience does not mean the end of the world. Sorry, who let that soap box in here...? I have taken phones away from drivers who were drifting in and out of lanes. I have told the person on the other end that they are driving and will be happy to call them back when it is safer. I have never gotten a bad response from anyone but the driver who insists that it wasn't a problem and then has to yank the car back into their lane. I suspect that even folks who do it, realize the trouble they are setting themselves up for. Further I bet that even the folks who do use phones while driving, without causing crashes, are still infuriated by the 90 percent of the phone users who really are morons and poor drivers. Yes. A bad driver is a bad driver with or without a cellphone. But a cell phone seems to be an instant "square root and invert" function. -- Joe -- Joseph M. Krzeszewski Mechanical Engineering and stuff Jack of All Trades, Master of None... Yet |
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Actually it is quite common and required to transmit blind. Uncontrolled
airports use Unicom frequencies and you announce your intentions to the wide open spaces incase somebody else has intentions of being where you plan to go and you just haven't spotted each other. But you usually have a headset and a button on the yoke for PTT and sometimes even freqencies .. comm/nav etc. For commercial flights you have two people driving. All that aside I think people should either hang up and drive or pull over and talk. Glenn "Gene Kearns" wrote in message ... On 12 Jan 2005 13:33:01 -0800, wrote: SNIP"!!!!!!!!!!!an asset to aid him in coordinating his plane??????????" ROFLMAO...... You're kidding, right? No. What's so funny. Isn't the purpose of radio comms to communicate to the tower? and other planes. IE. Yes I am here. Yes I intend to do this. Yes, my flight plan is this. Etc, etc. JW Let's just say that if you are talking on the radio, chances are you are being directed where to go and at what altitude... flight plan.... sort of like.. the phone rings and somebody changes all of your plans.... otherwise, you might be transmitting in the blind, announcing your position and *hoping* that somebody is listening... -- .. |
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Ian Stirling wrote:
Leon Heller wrote: http://www.geocities.com/leon_heller "Unknown" wrote in message . .. I have the pictures but this URL will demo that they are not fakes. This occurred about 75 miles from where I live. http://www.frazeeforum.com/ Using a phone whilst driving has been illegal for a few months here in the UK. Using a non-hands-free phone. Wow - you mean - non-hands driving while using the phone now ?! :-) I think they passed it here on the left coast - Ca. Can't tell it by looking. Not much press or anything here. Martin -- Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn @ home at Lion's Lair with our computer NRA LOH, NRA Life NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder |
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Gene Kearns wrote:
On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 06:10:50 -0500, Nick Hull wrote: In article , Unknown wrote: I have the pictures but this URL will demo that they are not fakes. This occurred about 75 miles from where I live. http://www.frazeeforum.com/ Accidents occur while the driver is drinking coffee, we should ban drive-up windows. I am particularly amused by this line of argument about making cell phone use illegal..... while pilots are *required* by law to chat on the radio... all the while maintaining control in 3-space not 2-space.... in all phases of flight. The bottom line is that people too dense to be able to divide their attention shouldn't be driving anyway... chances are that dame would have rear-ended that trailer because she was sipping a drink, lighting a cigarette, checking her makeup, or looking at something that caught her eye out of the side window..... cell phones make a convenient scapegoat... next up for litigation will be rear view mirrors, maps, GPSs..... I think the whole thing came on when the insurance industry had the police and highway types itemize on-cell or not - with belt or not..... for the stats and then that changed the whole thing. The person might be putting on lipstick, brushing hair, driving and eating while using the cell phone. I have seen people brush out rolled up hair and others reading newspapers. Then there is the carpool issues. It is simply control and another (sorry Mom) Mother law. The government has deemed itself to be everyones 'Mother' and care for the children... Martin -- Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn @ home at Lion's Lair with our computer NRA LOH, NRA Life NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder |
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Dave Hinz wrote:
On 12 Jan 2005 09:26:51 -0800, jim rozen wrote: In article .com, Too_Many_Tools says... Whether or not a cell phone driver wants to admit it, driving while using a cell phone is an accident waiting to happen. It's funny but nobody ever comes down on the *other* side of this issue. Nobody ever posts, "yeah, I talk on the phone all the time and it never causes a problem, you guys are just nuts." I use the phone in my car on occasion, and I'd like to think that it hasn't caused any problems. Is that close enough? I work in IT, and when the phone rings, I have to answer it, because that's part of what my salary pays for. I suspect that even folks who do it, realize the trouble they are setting themselves up for. Further I bet that even the folks who do use phones while driving, without causing crashes, are still infuriated by the 90 percent of the phone users who really are morons and poor drivers. Yes. A bad driver is a bad driver with or without a cellphone. And just when these nay sayers get the phones out of the cars, a major smear occurs and needs a call for help. I have my wife take hers - I got one just for this - have it so when she gets a flat or out of gas or gets run into - she can call AAA, Me, Her work people, who she wants or needs. One never knows when one will be over the edge on a curve or just in a bad spot were there isn't a phone or periodic patrol. Martin -- Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn @ home at Lion's Lair with our computer NRA LOH, NRA Life NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder |
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SteveB wrote:
"Ian Stirling" wrote Using a non-hands-free phone. Some people are incapable of talking without their hands. Well, yes. But there is a fairly strong and reasonable argument that using half of your hands to clamp a phone to the side of your head is probably not good while driving. |
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In article , Martin H. Eastburn
says... simply control and another (sorry Mom) Mother law. The government has deemed itself to be everyones 'Mother' and care for the children... Respectfully, no. This issue is not another helmet or seatbelt law thing. The actions of drivers on public roads affect *all* the other drivers. A person's car interior is not their own personal living room, it is travelling down a highway that many other people are using at the same time. This the reason that I can vote against helmet or seatbelt laws, and FOR a law that prohibits drivers from being distracted by phone conversations. Those are fundamentally different issues. The right to chatter on a phone in the car *stops* when my right to travel safely _starts_. Jim -- ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
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On Wed, 12 Jan 2005 17:25:45 -0800, SteveB wrote:
"Nick Hull" wrote Accidents occur while the driver is drinking coffee, we should ban drive-up windows. Well, Nick. A University of Utah study showed that drunk drivers drive better than people who are driving while talking on a cell phone. Cite, please? I bet there's qualifiers in there about how drunk, and so on. |
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In article , Dave Hinz says...
If the e-commerce site I'm responsible is down, the shareholders lose an immense amount of money. Boo hoo. If you cause an crash because you're on the phone, folks die. Hang up and drive. Or go park somewhere and chat to your hearts content. Jim -- ================================================== please reply to: JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com ================================================== |
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