Running compressed air line from garage to basement.
 

The positive things about the pancake compressors is they are light and
portable. The negative things about them is that they are loud and will
wear out quickly.

GWE

Ignoramus13229 wrote:
Now that I have a nice 60A subpanel in the garage, I can finally
afford to plug in whatever I want without tripping my breakers.

The subpanel has the following receptacles:

1) 50A 220V range receptacle
2) 20A 220V receptacle
2) Two 20A 110V receptacles

The eequipment that I am thinking about is a 2.2HP Harbor Freight
pancake compressor.

What I am thinking about is this: setting it up in the garage to be
plugged on, for extended periods of time (like one day when I have
some projects to do, not necessarily permanently). It turns on only
when necessary, obviously, so it will run only 1% of the time anyway.

Then I would somehow install plumbing for compressed air from the
garage, to my basement workshop. It is easy location wise, all I need
is to drill a hole in the bottom of the garage wall and it goes right
into my basement crawlspace.

Then, I would install some sort of a permanent air "outlet" in the
workshop, into which I would plug tools and hoses.

What I am looking for is some thoughts on whether this is a sane idea,
and if so, what plumbing to use and what outlets etc. I want to do a
nice job, but not spend too much. And I want it to look sensible and
be highly usable.

i

Bamboo bonded with tree sap! (How about a 1/2" rubber hose?)


"Ignoramus13229" wrote in message
...
Now that I have a nice 60A subpanel in the garage, I can finally
afford to plug in whatever I want without tripping my breakers.

The subpanel has the following receptacles:

1) 50A 220V range receptacle
2) 20A 220V receptacle
2) Two 20A 110V receptacles

The eequipment that I am thinking about is a 2.2HP Harbor Freight
pancake compressor.

What I am thinking about is this: setting it up in the garage to be
plugged on, for extended periods of time (like one day when I have
some projects to do, not necessarily permanently). It turns on only
when necessary, obviously, so it will run only 1% of the time anyway.

Then I would somehow install plumbing for compressed air from the
garage, to my basement workshop. It is easy location wise, all I need
is to drill a hole in the bottom of the garage wall and it goes right
into my basement crawlspace.

Then, I would install some sort of a permanent air "outlet" in the
workshop, into which I would plug tools and hoses.

What I am looking for is some thoughts on whether this is a sane idea,
and if so, what plumbing to use and what outlets etc. I want to do a
nice job, but not spend too much. And I want it to look sensible and
be highly usable.

i

Ig,

Air piping is discussed here on a regular basis. Look in the archives.
Well, since google frigged them up, try to look in the archives, anyway.

To sum up: don't use plastic unless it is specifically rated for use
with compressed gasses, and most of what you'll find to buy is not. PVC
is not suitable (cue the people who have PVC piping and never had a
problem with it - which they won't, until it shatters one day, and they
do).

I'm in the copper camp (cue the "copper is unsafe, but we can't quite
explain how, but we say it is, so it must be" people).

There's also a black iron pipe and a galvanized iron pipe camp, mostly
among people who already bought pipe dies and need something to use them
on, as well as persons who are prone to believe people who say something
is unsafe, but can't explain how (cue the copper camp noting rust and
zinc in your air, and large commercial copper installations).

Finally, there's the "100 feet of rubber airhose" camp.

Pick one, and enjoy. Use a section of flexible hose to connect the
compressor to any sort of fixed piping (for vibration isolation), and
arrange so that water will drain down to a place (or places) where it
can be removed, while taking air drops from the top of the pipe so that
they are less prone to get water in them (put a drain leg at the bottom
of each air drop, anyway). That is, use a tee pointing up and 2 ells to
point down, rather than a tee pointing down, to get air down from a line
high on the wall.

--
Cats, Coffee, Chocolate...vices to live by

In article ,
Ignoramus13229 wrote:

Thanks Ecnerwal. Plumbing pipe is appealing because a variety of
fittings is available at Home Depot, and the result is idiot proof. I
could not grok your suggestions regarding drip removal. I understand
that condensate needs to be removed, but not sure how.

Any horizontal run of pipe should not be horizontal - it should slope -
generally away from the compressor. An air drop (pipe down to a point of
air use) should come off the top of the horizontal line, and extend down
to a tee (where the air is used), and also extend beyond the tee 12-18
inches (or more) to a valve. At the low end (or point) of the horizontal
run, an elebow (or tee) should go off the bottom of the pipe to a
vertical leg with no air use point, but with a drain valve at the bottom.

The default location, and most conventions for piping have the main pipe
high on the wall - this prevents or reduces accidental damage.

--
Cats, Coffee, Chocolate...vices to live by

In article , Ecnerwal
says...

I'm in the copper camp (cue the "copper is unsafe, but we can't quite
explain how, but we say it is, so it must be" people).

Odd, I've yet to find those folks. I would simply run half inch
copper, with regular sweated fittings.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

It looks like tiptools is down at the moment, or gone forever, dunno. They
have a real good piping diagram for compressed air. It's archived in a few
places where you can still get it, including he http://tinyurl.com/3qd6p

This will make you somewhat less of an, um, ignoramus.

GWE

Ignoramus13229 wrote:

snip

I put my 60-gal compressor in the garage and ran a 3/4' heavy-wall
copper line to the workshop. It has worked out well -- the noise is in
the garage, and the air is in the shop. Be sure to add a filter/drain
bowl/regulator at the shop end, and don't forget to drain the tank every
couple of days.

Ignoramus13229 wrote:

Now that I have a nice 60A subpanel in the garage, I can finally
afford to plug in whatever I want without tripping my breakers.

The subpanel has the following receptacles:

1) 50A 220V range receptacle
2) 20A 220V receptacle
2) Two 20A 110V receptacles

The eequipment that I am thinking about is a 2.2HP Harbor Freight
pancake compressor.

What I am thinking about is this: setting it up in the garage to be
plugged on, for extended periods of time (like one day when I have
some projects to do, not necessarily permanently). It turns on only
when necessary, obviously, so it will run only 1% of the time anyway.

Then I would somehow install plumbing for compressed air from the
garage, to my basement workshop. It is easy location wise, all I need
is to drill a hole in the bottom of the garage wall and it goes right
into my basement crawlspace.

Then, I would install some sort of a permanent air "outlet" in the
workshop, into which I would plug tools and hoses.

What I am looking for is some thoughts on whether this is a sane idea,
and if so, what plumbing to use and what outlets etc. I want to do a
nice job, but not spend too much. And I want it to look sensible and
be highly usable.

i

It's a CH 4-cylinder model CIQ71060V:

http://www.jackssmallengines.com/ch_air_comp_quad.cfm

I like it because it runs at low RPM, has oil lubrication, and the motor
operates with 240V single phase.



Ignoramus13229 wrote:

On 2005-01-10, Tim Killian wrote:

I put my 60-gal compressor in the garage and ran a 3/4' heavy-wall
copper line to the workshop. It has worked out well -- the noise is in
the garage, and the air is in the shop. Be sure to add a filter/drain
bowl/regulator at the shop end, and don't forget to drain the tank every
couple of days.


Thanks. I have a measly compressor compared to yours. What kind of
compressor do you own?

i


Ignoramus13229 wrote:


Now that I have a nice 60A subpanel in the garage, I can finally
afford to plug in whatever I want without tripping my breakers.

The subpanel has the following receptacles:

1) 50A 220V range receptacle
2) 20A 220V receptacle
2) Two 20A 110V receptacles

The eequipment that I am thinking about is a 2.2HP Harbor Freight
pancake compressor.

What I am thinking about is this: setting it up in the garage to be
plugged on, for extended periods of time (like one day when I have
some projects to do, not necessarily permanently). It turns on only
when necessary, obviously, so it will run only 1% of the time anyway.

Then I would somehow install plumbing for compressed air from the
garage, to my basement workshop. It is easy location wise, all I need
is to drill a hole in the bottom of the garage wall and it goes right
into my basement crawlspace.

Then, I would install some sort of a permanent air "outlet" in the
workshop, into which I would plug tools and hoses.

What I am looking for is some thoughts on whether this is a sane idea,
and if so, what plumbing to use and what outlets etc. I want to do a
nice job, but not spend too much. And I want it to look sensible and
be highly usable.

i

On 10 Jan 2005 14:15:50 GMT, Ignoramus13229
wrote:

Now that I have a nice 60A subpanel in the garage, I can finally
afford to plug in whatever I want without tripping my breakers.

The subpanel has the following receptacles:

1) 50A 220V range receptacle
2) 20A 220V receptacle
2) Two 20A 110V receptacles

The eequipment that I am thinking about is a 2.2HP Harbor Freight
pancake compressor.

What kind of tools will you be running? Pancake compressors are OK
for air nailers, etc but lack the capacity for most rotary air tools.

If you have room, adding an air tank (reservoir) in the shop might be
a good idea. That will give you some "reserve" so you can run an air
tool for a short time at least, then let the compressor catch up.
Locating it in the shop eliminates the pressure drop in the line
between shop and garage at high flow rates.

I'd locate the filter/regulator at point of use rather than at the
compressor.

Use silver-soldered connections or flare fittings -- not compression
fittings.

Put a ball valve upstream of each quick-disconnect fitting. Those
fittings all leak a little after a while, but good ball valves are
surprisingly leak-free.

I read recently on the Ingersoll Rand website, (I think) that it isn't
the copper pipe that's the problem, it's the soldered (sweated?)
tin/lead joints that will eventually fatigue and fail due to transmitted
compressor vibration. Flared copper joints are fine, apparently. I
personally use iron pipe as I like its water removal properties, but
with any setup you have to slope your horizontal feeds to a drain point
to remove the condensated water. I ran with a rubber hose for some time
in my new shop and had massive water in the lines problems till I
installed the iron pipe. As for TP Tools, their website is fine:
http://www.tptools.com/ they have great stuff and good support.

Cheers, Peter


jim rozen wrote:
In article , Ecnerwal
says...


I'm in the copper camp (cue the "copper is unsafe, but we can't quite
explain how, but we say it is, so it must be" people).


Odd, I've yet to find those folks. I would simply run half inch
copper, with regular sweated fittings.

Jim

In article , Ignoramus13229 says...

I also like the suggestion to run it high. How many outlets do you
think is sensible to have? One per table, or something like that?

More than you think you'll need. I have my to-do list, which
includes, "add more air drops in shop."

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

In article , Don Foreman says...

Put a ball valve upstream of each quick-disconnect fitting. Those
fittings all leak a little after a while, but good ball valves are
surprisingly leak-free.

*Especially* if the QC fitting is at the bottom of a drop.
I've had a lot of trouble because crud falls down to the
bottom of the drops and jams the seats in the regulators.
I've learned to put a drip leg on vertical drops, with
a drain valve.

Jim


--
==================================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at pkmfgvm4 (dot) vnet (dot) ibm (dot) com
==================================================

"Ignoramus13229" wrote in message
...
| On 2005-01-10, Tom Gardner wrote:
| Bamboo bonded with tree sap! (How about a 1/2" rubber hose?)
|
| People on alt.home.repair suggested using 1/2" copper pipe.
|
| Is there a system of fittings, outlet boxes etc, comparable to what we
| have in the electrical world?

Black pipe is safely self supporting in that it can hold up the hoses
and fittings and all that, but copper will work harden from the handling of
having fittings on the end, so everything needs to be anchored down. Visit
your local builder's box store and you'll see a dizzying variety of fittings
for 1/2" copper pipe, which with the proper imagination one can just about
plan the whole thing from the store.
I just stapled an air hose in my garage from the compressor to the
workbench, up and over the garage door. I found almost as soon as I plumbed
it that it was too close to the vise, so it's a good thing I didn't do it in
copper. I have to figure out how to reroute it to fit the current
configuration and the configuration I hope to do sometime before I get too
old to care.

| Maybe I will use regular plumbing 1/2" lines and plumbing ball valves
| etc, along with compressor fittings at the very end?

If you do the bulk of the piping in copper and convert it to hard pipe
at the ends you'll get the safest system, in my book. The advantage of
copper runs is the price, and the advantage of the hard pipes are their
durability and being able to take a beating.

On 10 Jan 2005 08:07:10 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Ecnerwal
says...

I'm in the copper camp (cue the "copper is unsafe, but we can't quite
explain how, but we say it is, so it must be" people).

Odd, I've yet to find those folks. I would simply run half inch
copper, with regular sweated fittings.

Threaded steel pipe is for those who can't make a decent sweat
soldered or silver-brazed fitting connection. ;-)

DO NOT use PVC pipe for compressed air lines, EVER! Or any plastic
pipe not specifically rated for compressed air use. If it breaks it
will shatter into high-energy shrapnel, and the fast flying bits can
maim or kill.

My Master Plan:

Step 1 - build shed outside garage for the 4 HP 80-gallon 2-stage
vertical compressor that Santa delivered. Pin & Epoxy the old
foundation and pour new footing, scab onto rafters and extend roofing,
make it look like it was originally built that way.

Step 2 - install silver-brazed 3/4" L Copper air lines through
garage shop area.

Step 3 - clean enough crap out of the garage to get working space...

With copper piping it's easy to cut in a new tee and add a drop
where you need it, with a minimum of fuss - with black or galvanized
pipe you've got a big job with cutters, deburring, threaders and
unions or left-right nipples. Or you have to take the whole system
partially apart, meaning new leaks to fix.

And if you silver-braze the air lines, that will flag it as NOT a
water pipe, in case the clueless plumber tries tapping into it. Of
course, the yellow Brady ID labels stuck on the pipe reading
"Compressed Air --" should provide another useful clue, too, but some
induhviduals just have to mess things up.

Save the black pipe for the 1" natural gas line to the garage, in
case you get the urge to play around with foundry burners. ;-)

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 14:48:51 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:

Put a ball valve upstream of each quick-disconnect fitting. Those
fittings all leak a little after a while, but good ball valves are
surprisingly leak-free.

And sometimes the quick-connect doesn't shut off the air when you
disconnect the hose, so having a handy shutoff ball valve next to each
QD brings blessed silence quickly...

-- Bruce --

--
Bruce L. Bergman, Woodland Hills (Los Angeles) CA - Desktop
Electrician for Westend Electric - CA726700
5737 Kanan Rd. #359, Agoura CA 91301 (818) 889-9545
Spamtrapped address: Remove the python and the invalid, and use a net.

Would you use "L" or "M" copper pipe ?

On 10 Jan 2005 08:07:10 -0800, jim rozen
wrote:

In article , Ecnerwal
says...

I'm in the copper camp (cue the "copper is unsafe, but we can't quite
explain how, but we say it is, so it must be" people).

Odd, I've yet to find those folks. I would simply run half inch
copper, with regular sweated fittings.

Jim



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Would you use copper or plastic valves ? Seems that the plastic
valves are cheaper than the copper ones

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 14:48:51 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:



Put a ball valve upstream of each quick-disconnect fitting. Those
fittings all leak a little after a while, but good ball valves are
surprisingly leak-free.



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On Sat, 15 Jan 2005 23:38:43 +0000, Fuhh wrote:

Would you use copper or plastic valves ? Seems that the plastic
valves are cheaper than the copper ones

Pick yer pony, take yer ride. A good valve doesn't cost $5.

Don Foreman wrote:
Pick yer pony, take yer ride. A good valve doesn't cost $5.

Especially on eBay. IIRC, I got a lot of 5 for around %15. Here's a
lot of 10 (current bid $12.99):
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...7192 114&rd=1

Stick with metal valves. Oil in the lines will eventually weaken
anything made of plastics like PVC or PC. Ask yourself one question: How
many times am I going to install this air line? Saving $2 doesn't make a
lot of sense in that context (unless you build houses for a living ;-)).

Fuhh wrote:
Would you use copper or plastic valves ? Seems that the plastic
valves are cheaper than the copper ones

On Mon, 10 Jan 2005 14:48:51 -0600, Don Foreman
wrote:



Put a ball valve upstream of each quick-disconnect fitting. Those
fittings all leak a little after a while, but good ball valves are
surprisingly leak-free.




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