November 4th 2004 Black and Decker finalized the purchase of the
Pentair Tools group.
This includes Porter Cable, Delta, Devilbis compressors and a few other
smaller companies.
Pentair sold their welding companies (Marquette, Century, and Solar) to
Lincoln Electric last year.

I am very worried about this.
B+D does not have a good track record of respecting quality
construction.
The Dewalt brand was created because they has destroyed the market
value of the Black+Decker name by making so many crappy tools.
Dewalt has gone completely plastic now.
Delta is mostly taiwanese junk now, but Porter Cable makes some nice
stuff and more importantly they own FLEX, maker of the finest right
angle grinders on earth.

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 02:57:26 +0000, Ernie Leimkuhler wrote:

November 4th 2004 Black and Decker finalized the purchase of the Pentair
Tools group.
This includes Porter Cable, Delta, Devilbis compressors and a few other
smaller companies.
Pentair sold their welding companies (Marquette, Century, and Solar) to
Lincoln Electric last year.

I am very worried about this.
B+D does not have a good track record of respecting quality construction.
The Dewalt brand was created because they has destroyed the market value
of the Black+Decker name by making so many crappy tools. Dewalt has gone
completely plastic now. Delta is mostly taiwanese junk now, but Porter
Cable makes some nice stuff and more importantly they own FLEX, maker of
the finest right angle grinders on earth.

That sort of makes Milwaukee look better & better...

Even when B&D was known for the real-cheapo they did make a professional
line of tools that was much better than the DeWalt stuff they've been
selling. My impression of most of the DeWalt tools is that they are
definitely built to a particular price point. There are a few that seem to
be built to a professional standard, regardless of price, but those are
the exceptions.

The older designs in the PC line have remained quality items, but some of
their newer designs tend more towards the B&D/DeWalt quality. Fortunately
we still have Milwaukee which is commited to producing quality
professional tools.

--
The instructions said to use Windows 98 or better, so I installed RedHat.

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 02:57:26 +0000, Ernie Leimkuhler wrote:

November 4th 2004 Black and Decker finalized the purchase of the Pentair
Tools group.
This includes Porter Cable, Delta, Devilbis compressors and a few other
smaller companies.
Pentair sold their welding companies (Marquette, Century, and Solar) to
Lincoln Electric last year.

I am very worried about this.
B+D does not have a good track record of respecting quality construction.
The Dewalt brand was created because they has destroyed the market value
of the Black+Decker name by making so many crappy tools. Dewalt has gone
completely plastic now. Delta is mostly taiwanese junk now, but Porter
Cable makes some nice stuff and more importantly they own FLEX, maker of
the finest right angle grinders on earth.

That sort of makes Milwaukee look better & better...

Even when B&D was known for the real-cheapo they did make a professional
line of tools that was much better than the DeWalt stuff they've been
selling. My impression of most of the DeWalt tools is that they are
definitely built to a particular price point. There are a few that seem to
be built to a professional standard, regardless of price, but those are
the exceptions.

The older designs in the PC line have remained quality items, but some of
their newer designs tend more towards the B&D/DeWalt quality. Fortunately
we still have Milwaukee which is commited to producing quality
professional tools.

--
The instructions said to use Windows 98 or better, so I installed RedHat.

Yeah, but someone said Milwaukee was bought out by Ryobi... sigh
Face it people - Thanks to Wal-Mart, we are doomed to have nothing but
junk available to us, and no way of buying anything else. If you need
something good, you are gonna haveta make it yo'self.....
Ken.

I'm still using B&D tools over thirty years old. I have heard that the
new stuff isn't very good quality, but they used to make bulletproof
tools.
Bugs

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 11:48:32 GMT, Ken Sterling (Ken Sterling) wrote:


Thanks to Wal-Mart, we are doomed to have nothing but
junk available to us, and no way of buying anything else.

One can always improve on walmart **** by buying from Harbor Freight.

But, for those that feel as I do, walmart should be chopped up and
buried in the nearest garbage dump, it seems that the local, one year
old, walmart, super(not)store isn't doing well. Which is only for the
good. May the works of walton quickly rot in bankruptcy, by their own
hand.

B&D, by their own internal policies, have guaranteed that they will
never again have the acceptance they once had. Their name on anything
is a guarantee that it won't last long, and won't work well from day
one. (In contrast to the 30 year old B&D router that I still use, and
it still works very well.)

"Bugs" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm still using B&D tools over thirty years old. I have heard that the
new stuff isn't very good quality, but they used to make bulletproof
tools.
Bugs


You can bet your last dollar on that. My father was a carpenter. Retired
prematurely in '55 at age 53 from health issues. Included amongst his
tools was an 8" Electro-saw, made by what is now Black & Decker. It is
still running strong and has power far beyond what the vast majority of
electric hand saws have today. Quality, for that type of tool, is
impressive. I've added a (removable) water manifold to it so it can be
used for running a wet diamond blade for cutting transite. (I use a ground
fault circuit and wear rubber boots when I use it that way). I used it to
manufacture my fume hood when I was involved in refining precious metals.
You can believe me when I say they don't make saws that way today.

Harold

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 11:48:32 GMT, Ken Sterling (Ken Sterling) wrote:

Yeah, but someone said Milwaukee was bought out by Ryobi... sigh
Face it people - Thanks to Wal-Mart, we are doomed to have nothing but
junk available to us, and no way of buying anything else. If you need
something good, you are gonna haveta make it yo'self.....
Ken.

Hmm, I don't think so. Thanks to the Web and speciality merchants,
better and better tools are becoming available. They're not cheap and
you won't find them in your corner store, but we can get them if we
want them.

--RC

"Sometimes history doesn't repeat itself. It just yells
'can't you remember anything I've told you?' and lets
fly with a club.
-- John W. Cambell Jr.

Yeah, but someone said Milwaukee was bought out by Ryobi...

ughh, better buy up the real ones before they go to china. already seen
some'cheaper' milwuakee tools out, no aluminum cse, gray plastic...

I noticed and mourned. My (only? last?) hope is that the community of
serious users - good contractors, artisans, hobbyists - will form enough
of a market to support a few good tool suppliers. The "channel" will be
eBay stores and UPS rather than retailers; I'm afraid the Wall will kill
everything else before it it poisoned by its own waste products.

Whether the aforementioned serious users will be able to afford those
tools is a whole 'nother can of worms.
--
Fred R
________________
Drop TROU to email.

porter cable made a lot of the top shelf dewalt stuff for black and decker,
i have a buddy that works in the plant in jackson ,tn i will call him and
get the scoop

Elkton diecast in Kentucky is the main supplier of the Milwaukee metal
housing parts , they have had record orders three quarters in a row , last I
heard Milwaukee was going to survive the buy-out , they are very profitable

On Wed, 05 Jan 2005 23:58:53 GMT, Fred R "spam
wrote:

I noticed and mourned. My (only? last?) hope is that the community of
serious users - good contractors, artisans, hobbyists - will form enough
of a market to support a few good tool suppliers. The "channel" will be
eBay stores and UPS rather than retailers; I'm afraid the Wall will kill
everything else before it it poisoned by its own waste products.

Whether the aforementioned serious users will be able to afford those
tools is a whole 'nother can of worms.

The Waltons of the world have a bad habit of "buying" market share by
selecting a particular "commodity" and selling it cheaper than anyone
else. To do this they pretty well force the supplier to lower their
price, requiring cheapening the product. So some company. like Black
and Decker, determines to "own" that market, come what may.

Soon the B&Ds of the world, through the Waltons of the world, are the
only sourse for a particular item. Soon there is no money left in the
product for either one - it's a tossup whether the B&Ds go broke first
or if the Waltons decide to cut their losses and stop selling them -
and then you can not get the item anywhere for any price.