OT advice on running wires for a sur. sound unit???
 

I am currently doing some re-modeling downstairs(building a bar) and
have some access holes cut in the ceiling from having a baseboard
heating system installed. Anyway, my wife has wanted to be able to
change the TV around (put it on the opp. wall) but we had no way to get
cable to that spot. But now with the access holes downstairs, I can run
a cable over to the desired spot and use a splitter on the incoming
sat. cable. I was thinking of running some speaker cables incase I ever
want a surround sound setup. I do not know anything about them, how
many wires do I need to run for the speakers? Is there 4 or 5 speakers?
I was planning on using 16ga. speaker wire, but do not know what type
of box to run it to, or what type of ends to put on it. What about RCA
ends, then put matching ends on cables? I dont want to leave the cables
just hanging out of the wall. I know they have to be marked for hookup,
and for + and - . I seen a setup at Home Depot that is a box with six
square holes that accept RCA connectors, or other type of connectors,
they snap in the square holes. I would have to use two of these boxes,
that would give me six cables for speakers? Any help or info on this
would be great.
Thanks,
Craig

Distribution amplifiers are better than splitters. Each time you split
a signal its strength is cut in half. I don't watch TV but from what I
remember there aren't many signals that come in very clearly anyway so
cutting signal power by 50% doesn't make sense. - GWE

Craig wrote:

I am currently doing some re-modeling downstairs(building a bar) and
have some access holes cut in the ceiling from having a baseboard
heating system installed. Anyway, my wife has wanted to be able to
change the TV around (put it on the opp. wall) but we had no way to get
cable to that spot. But now with the access holes downstairs, I can run
a cable over to the desired spot and use a splitter on the incoming
sat. cable. I was thinking of running some speaker cables incase I ever
want a surround sound setup. I do not know anything about them, how
many wires do I need to run for the speakers? Is there 4 or 5 speakers?
I was planning on using 16ga. speaker wire, but do not know what type
of box to run it to, or what type of ends to put on it. What about RCA
ends, then put matching ends on cables? I dont want to leave the cables
just hanging out of the wall. I know they have to be marked for hookup,
and for + and - . I seen a setup at Home Depot that is a box with six
square holes that accept RCA connectors, or other type of connectors,
they snap in the square holes. I would have to use two of these boxes,
that would give me six cables for speakers? Any help or info on this
would be great.
Thanks,
Craig

sat. cable. I was thinking of running some speaker cables incase I ever
want a surround sound setup. I do not know anything about them, how
many wires do I need to run for the speakers? Is there 4 or 5 speakers?
I was planning on using 16ga. speaker wire, but do not know what type

Surround sound 5.1
-two front speakers
-two rear speakers
-center channel speaker on top of TV
-sub woofer in the corner

Surround sound 6.1 adds one more rear speaker.

I use generic speaker cable from MSC. Probably 14 ga.
My speakers just have clip type jacks on the back. Nothing fancy.
put in speaker wire and cover with blank plates.
Figure out the connectors when you install speakers.

"Craig" wrote in message
oups.com...
I am currently doing some re-modeling downstairs(building a bar) and
have some access holes cut in the ceiling from having a baseboard
heating system installed. Anyway, my wife has wanted to be able to
change the TV around (put it on the opp. wall) but we had no way to get
cable to that spot. But now with the access holes downstairs, I can run
a cable over to the desired spot and use a splitter on the incoming
sat. cable. I was thinking of running some speaker cables incase I ever
want a surround sound setup. I do not know anything about them, how
many wires do I need to run for the speakers? Is there 4 or 5 speakers?
I was planning on using 16ga. speaker wire, but do not know what type
of box to run it to, or what type of ends to put on it. What about RCA
ends, then put matching ends on cables? I dont want to leave the cables
just hanging out of the wall. I know they have to be marked for hookup,
and for + and - . I seen a setup at Home Depot that is a box with six
square holes that accept RCA connectors, or other type of connectors,
they snap in the square holes. I would have to use two of these boxes,
that would give me six cables for speakers? Any help or info on this
would be great.
Thanks,
Craig


16 Ga. speaker wire will work fine.

Wherever the wire is running out of a wall, use a mud ring
screwed to a stud or a low voltage trim ring.
Home depot has quickport jacks specifically for speakers,
they use a screw connector on back and either a screw down or banana
plug on the front.
http://www.leviton-lin.com/catalog/B...uildPageID=616
Snap the connectors into a 2 port plate, attach the
speaker wires to the back then mount the plate on the mudring.

Behind the TV I used a Pass Seymour HT26-LA plate.
http://www.passandseymour.com/pdf/D33-35.pdf
It has all the connections for a 5.1 system labeled for easy
hookups. About $35 at menards.

My site has some pictures under Family room remodel if you want
to check it out, it's not very informative, but it's something to look at.
I used electrical boxes and smurf tubing but it was overkill.

Nate

--
http://www.Weber-Automation.net:8000

In article ,
Charles A. Sherwood wrote:
sat. cable. I was thinking of running some speaker cables incase I ever
want a surround sound setup. I do not know anything about them, how
many wires do I need to run for the speakers? Is there 4 or 5 speakers?
I was planning on using 16ga. speaker wire, but do not know what type

Surround sound 5.1
-two front speakers
-two rear speakers
-center channel speaker on top of TV
-sub woofer in the corner

Surround sound 6.1 adds one more rear speaker.

I use generic speaker cable from MSC. Probably 14 ga.
My speakers just have clip type jacks on the back. Nothing fancy.
put in speaker wire and cover with blank plates.
Figure out the connectors when you install speakers.

But put unique labels on each wire at each end, to simplify
identification when the time to put them into service comes around.

Certainly, I would not even *consider* using RCA plugs and jacks
for serious speaker connections.

And I probably would put in an array of quality binding posts
for the task -- which can be used either to terminate normal wires, or
to accept dual banana plugs (just make sure that you have the binding
posts spaced 3/4" so the dual banana plugs will fit. The better quality
binding posts are available with replacement insulators to hold that
spacing, and some even with triangular patterns for three-way
connections as well.

My personal favorite for binding posts are those made by
Greyhill (I hope that they are still in business). General Radio made
some good ones as well, and another style whose manufacturer I never
knew. Those latter ones were the ones used by Power Designs on their
power supplies, and they had a fat hex knob on each.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Craig,
What surround mode are you using, THX, Dolby Digital 5.1, 6.1, 7.1???
What power is your amp per channel? What is the wire distance from the amp
to your speakers? What is the wattage/impedance rating of your speakers
(rms)? THX has different speaker locations than the others. If you have a
250watt/channel amp with 250 watt/2 ohm speakers running 50' of 16ga wire,
it's not gonna be pretty. This is a worse-case scenario but wire size,
power and impedance make a difference.One hundred feet of 16ga wire (50'
pair) can have greater impedance than the speaker at higher power. Not good
on the amp or the ears. Higher power, higher current, larger wire. Having
said all that, if yours ears are like mine, it really doesn't make a rip!
But when your neighbor or brother-in-law comes over....
Respectfully,
Ron Moore

"Craig" wrote in message
oups.com...
I am currently doing some re-modeling downstairs(building a bar) and
have some access holes cut in the ceiling from having a baseboard
heating system installed. Anyway, my wife has wanted to be able to
change the TV around (put it on the opp. wall) but we had no way to get
cable to that spot. But now with the access holes downstairs, I can run
a cable over to the desired spot and use a splitter on the incoming
sat. cable. I was thinking of running some speaker cables incase I ever
want a surround sound setup. I do not know anything about them, how
many wires do I need to run for the speakers? Is there 4 or 5 speakers?
I was planning on using 16ga. speaker wire, but do not know what type
of box to run it to, or what type of ends to put on it. What about RCA
ends, then put matching ends on cables? I dont want to leave the cables
just hanging out of the wall. I know they have to be marked for hookup,
and for + and - . I seen a setup at Home Depot that is a box with six
square holes that accept RCA connectors, or other type of connectors,
they snap in the square holes. I would have to use two of these boxes,
that would give me six cables for speakers? Any help or info on this
would be great.
Thanks,
Craig

For 10-20 watts of power, the 16 ga. wire will do alright but if you have
more power than that, larger wire will be better off. I'd just grab some 2
wire romex or other such dual cables and run about 12 gauge solid wire for
better results and use the 5 way binding posts to provide a connection.
Mark each pair of wires with a colored tape so that you can identify them at
the other end and mark the cover plates with what the connection is.
RCA connectors are designed for low power uses so using them on speakers
would be overworking the connectors badly.
--
Why isn't there an Ozone Hole at the NORTH Pole?

Craig wrote:

I am currently doing some re-modeling downstairs(building a bar) and
have some access holes cut in the ceiling from having a baseboard
heating system installed. Anyway, my wife has wanted to be able to
change the TV around (put it on the opp. wall) but we had no way to get
cable to that spot. But now with the access holes downstairs, I can run
a cable over to the desired spot and use a splitter on the incoming
sat. cable. I was thinking of running some speaker cables incase I ever
want a surround sound setup. I do not know anything about them, how
many wires do I need to run for the speakers? Is there 4 or 5 speakers?
I was planning on using 16ga. speaker wire, but do not know what type
of box to run it to, or what type of ends to put on it. What about RCA
ends, then put matching ends on cables? I dont want to leave the cables
just hanging out of the wall. I know they have to be marked for hookup,
and for + and - . I seen a setup at Home Depot that is a box with six
square holes that accept RCA connectors, or other type of connectors,
they snap in the square holes. I would have to use two of these boxes,
that would give me six cables for speakers? Any help or info on this
would be great.
Thanks,
Craig

First of all the Speakers are typically High Tech small ones - likely 4 or 8 ohms.
So they haul current that is for sure. I put on Monster cable - and
have much better sound than the dinky wires shipped.

So as many strand, as large - 14ga isn't to big.

One the split cable - yes have something on both ends. A TV and a splitter or 75 ohm load
on the other end.

Don't use RCA jacks on the speakers - not enough current - but might be on
the edge of ability.

How many watts are you driving with your 5.1 or 4.3 system. We have three systems
in the house. I'll have one in my shop once moved.

Had to upgrade to a second generation unit and the third is my Sons.

Martin

--
Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

I Grant you on that one Grant - however I get service from the pole
via a pair of splits that make three legs (three phase ?) then I split
it again and reamp it to the shop and office. The three main sites
all have more than enough signal. The AVC AGC automatic voltage control gain control
of these 'set top boxes' is great.

A Sat LNA amplifier might not be as strong as the Fiber optic split to copper
splits I have.

Martin

Grant Erwin wrote:

Distribution amplifiers are better than splitters. Each time you split
a signal its strength is cut in half. I don't watch TV but from what I
remember there aren't many signals that come in very clearly anyway so
cutting signal power by 50% doesn't make sense. - GWE

Craig wrote:

I am currently doing some re-modeling downstairs(building a bar) and
have some access holes cut in the ceiling from having a baseboard
heating system installed. Anyway, my wife has wanted to be able to
change the TV around (put it on the opp. wall) but we had no way to get
cable to that spot. But now with the access holes downstairs, I can run
a cable over to the desired spot and use a splitter on the incoming
sat. cable. I was thinking of running some speaker cables incase I ever
want a surround sound setup. I do not know anything about them, how
many wires do I need to run for the speakers? Is there 4 or 5 speakers?
I was planning on using 16ga. speaker wire, but do not know what type
of box to run it to, or what type of ends to put on it. What about RCA
ends, then put matching ends on cables? I dont want to leave the cables
just hanging out of the wall. I know they have to be marked for hookup,
and for + and - . I seen a setup at Home Depot that is a box with six
square holes that accept RCA connectors, or other type of connectors,
they snap in the square holes. I would have to use two of these boxes,
that would give me six cables for speakers? Any help or info on this
would be great.
Thanks,
Craig



--
Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder

I do not have a surround sound system- yet, I may get a wild hair up my
ass to buy one someday, and do not want to shaft myself now when I have
the access to install wires. Does the cable splitter reduce quality
when only one set is hooked to it? There will never be more than that,
Im just doing that to change the living room around for the wife( and
so I do not have to keep listening to hear gripe about NOT being able
to move the TV!!).
I will stay away from RCA jacks, thanks for the info
Is "Monster Cable" the name brand or does it just make refrence
to the size of 12ga.? The "binding posts" just have a hole in them with
a threaded barrel to hold the wire in place correct? Sounds rugged.
Will any 12ga. stranded cooper wire work? Or does it have to be
speaker wire? What is the diff. other than speaker wire has th two
wires side by side?

Thanks for all the help
Craig

In article .com,
Craig wrote:
I do not have a surround sound system- yet, I may get a wild hair up my
ass to buy one someday, and do not want to shaft myself now when I have
the access to install wires.

While you're there -- run some CAT-5 or even better CAT-6 wires
so you can use them for high-speed computer networking if you need to do
that. The connector for that is the RJ-45.

Does the cable splitter reduce quality
when only one set is hooked to it?

Yes -- there is 3db signal loss from the original cable to each
branch. And if there is any length of cable going from the splitter to
where a TV *could* be, but *isn't*, you should get a 75 ohm terminator
on that to prevent reflections, too.

There will never be more than that,
Im just doing that to change the living room around for the wife( and
so I do not have to keep listening to hear gripe about NOT being able
to move the TV!!).

O.K.

I will stay away from RCA jacks, thanks for the info
Is "Monster Cable" the name brand or does it just make refrence
to the size of 12ga.?

"Monster cable" is a brand of particularly over-priced cable.
It is sold to those who believe that $150.00 wooden knobs improve the
sound of a system. :-)

If you're planning to run low-impedance speakers (typical
speakers are 4 ohm, 8 ohm, or 16 ohm), and are planning to run rather
high peak powers, install heavier gauge wires. The longer the run, the
heavier the gauge you will need. But I suspect that 2 ga would be
overkill for almost any home system. If you truly believe in overkill,
go for 4-0 wires (about the diameter of your thumb. :-)

The "binding posts" just have a hole in them with
a threaded barrel to hold the wire in place correct?

Yes -- and they also have an end-on hole to accept a banana
plug.

The good ones have a metal part (nut) which screws onto the
post, with a plastic insulating part for you to grip as you screw it
down. The post also will have a flat piece which can accept a fork
terminal to go to either side of the post.

The Cheap ones will have the nut all plastic, and may even not
have the metal flange to accept fork terminals.

Sounds rugged.
Will any 12ga. stranded cooper wire work?

Sure.

Or does it have to be
speaker wire? What is the diff. other than speaker wire has th two
wires side by side?

Speaker wire typically has a transparent insulation (to make it
blend into the background better), and (sometimes) one of the two wires
is tinned, while the other is bare copper, so you can tell the two wires
apart. But even zip cord will do for that. It typically has ridges
molded into one side only, to allow you to identify the two sides.

Speaker wire is usually designed to be less objectionable in
view, though some (such as the "Monster Cable") can be very objectionable
in view. If you can find a color of zip cord to match your wall
background, it could be the better choice. The main thing that speaker
wire does is make a living for HI-FI store owners. The same in spades
for "Monster Cable". :-)

Now -- if you are running quite a few speaker feeds along the
same narrow space, ideally you should twist each pair, instead of
running them side by side, to minimize crosstalk. You'll find the same
principle (on a much smaller scale) in phone cables, and especially in
CAT-5 and CAT-6 cables. There (the CAT-? cables), even the rate of
twist changes from one pair to the next, to reduce the crosstalk even
more.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Craig wrote:

Is "Monster Cable" the name brand or does it just make refrence
to the size of 12ga.? The "binding posts" just have a hole in them with
a threaded barrel to hold the wire in place correct? Sounds rugged.
Will any 12ga. stranded cooper wire work? Or does it have to be
speaker wire? What is the diff. other than speaker wire has th two
wires side by side?

Speaker wire is very different. The difference is the price. By
calling it speaker wire you can charge up to ten times as much for it.
However when I compared Monster Cable with 14ga hardware store wire
using characteristic impedance measurements and time domain
reflectometry no difference appeared.

You want wire heavy enough so that the loop resistance of the wire (i.e.
resistance/foot times twice the length of the run) is small compared to
the speaker resistance. Example: A 50' run of #14 two conductor wire
will have a loop resistance of a bit more than 1/4 ohm. This will have
no effect (as in undetectable) on sound quality. 100 watts average
power (there is no meaning to the term rms power) sine wave into 4 ohms
is only 5 amps rms and #14 wire is what is used for 15amp house wiring
circuits. Music is not a sine wave - it has a _much_ higher
peak-to-average ratio than a sine wave (such as 60Hz power) and
consequently will heat the wire far less.

Save your money and buy side-by-side or twisted pair 14ga lamp cord.

Oh, and BTW, I have made extensive measurements on many amps over the
last 60 years and have only ever encountered one that actually put out
its rated power in real world tests. Power ratings of audio amplifiers
are almost always used hay. An _honest_ 100 watts per channel is huge!

Ted

Thank you for all your help, I learned a lot about this. Thanks again,
Craig

Craig wrote:

I do not have a surround sound system- yet, I may get a wild hair up my
ass to buy one someday, and do not want to shaft myself now when I have
the access to install wires. Does the cable splitter reduce quality
when only one set is hooked to it? There will never be more than that,
Im just doing that to change the living room around for the wife( and
so I do not have to keep listening to hear gripe about NOT being able
to move the TV!!).
I will stay away from RCA jacks, thanks for the info
Is "Monster Cable" the name brand or does it just make refrence
to the size of 12ga.? The "binding posts" just have a hole in them with
a threaded barrel to hold the wire in place correct? Sounds rugged.
Will any 12ga. stranded cooper wire work? Or does it have to be
speaker wire? What is the diff. other than speaker wire has th two
wires side by side?

Thanks for all the help
Craig

These systems don't require splitting. The main wire from the pole/Dish-LNA
goes to the "set top box" and the output of it - either F wire (coax) or several
other high tech cable sets are then sent to the S. Sound System. From it (that
contains RF relays and other goodies) a cable F,or a set of several other signals
is sent to TV, Another to the Tape system and so on... It is well documented.

Martin

--
Martin Eastburn, Barbara Eastburn
@ home at Lion's Lair with our computer
NRA LOH, NRA Life
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder