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B.B. November 22nd 04 12:50 AM

Old Gyro Compass
 
http://web2.airmail.net/thegoat4/stuff/gyro/

Anyone know anything about this contraption? I'd like to actually
spin it up just for the hell of it, but I'm afraid I may destroy it.
The tag in the fuzzy photo says:

TRANSMITTER
GYRO FLUX COMPASS
Reg. U.S. Pat. Off.
Mfr's Part No 12002-1-B Contract No W33-038 AC-3827
AN 5751-1 Ser. No. AF-44 57054
BENDIX AVIATION CORPORATION
ECLIPSE-POINEER DIVISION

The plug on it has seven pins in a symmetrical hex pattern with one
pin in the center.
No more pictures--camera died. Damnit!

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail.net
http://www.sorryeverybody.com/

Michelle P November 22nd 04 01:55 AM

According to the pictures it looks like a Flux gate. It measures earths
magnetic field. It is old.
Most likely 28 volts DC. Power to the wrong pins will ruin the unit.
Michelle

B.B. wrote:

http://web2.airmail.net/thegoat4/stuff/gyro/

Anyone know anything about this contraption? I'd like to actually
spin it up just for the hell of it, but I'm afraid I may destroy it.
The tag in the fuzzy photo says:

TRANSMITTER
GYRO FLUX COMPASS
Reg. U.S. Pat. Off.
Mfr's Part No 12002-1-B Contract No W33-038 AC-3827
AN 5751-1 Ser. No. AF-44 57054
BENDIX AVIATION CORPORATION
ECLIPSE-POINEER DIVISION

The plug on it has seven pins in a symmetrical hex pattern with one
pin in the center.
No more pictures--camera died. Damnit!




--

Michelle P ATP-ASEL, CP-AMEL, and AMT-A&P

"Elisabeth" a Maule M-7-235B (no two are alike)

Volunteer Pilot, Angel Flight Mid-Atlantic

Volunteer Builder, Habitat for Humanity


edard November 22nd 04 02:08 AM

B.B. wrote:

http://web2.airmail.net/thegoat4/stuff/gyro/

Anyone know anything about this contraption? I'd like to actually
spin it up just for the hell of it, but I'm afraid I may destroy it.
The tag in the fuzzy photo says:

TRANSMITTER
GYRO FLUX COMPASS
Reg. U.S. Pat. Off.
Mfr's Part No 12002-1-B Contract No W33-038 AC-3827
AN 5751-1 Ser. No. AF-44 57054
BENDIX AVIATION CORPORATION
ECLIPSE-POINEER DIVISION

The plug on it has seven pins in a symmetrical hex pattern with one
pin in the center.
No more pictures--camera died. Damnit!

Could that be what we used to call a radio compass? If so, it probably
takes 400 Hz 3 phase power, 120V (I timidly think).

B.B. November 22nd 04 02:19 AM

In article . net,
Michelle P wrote:

According to the pictures it looks like a Flux gate. It measures earths
magnetic field. It is old.
Most likely 28 volts DC. Power to the wrong pins will ruin the unit.
Michelle


Can I probably poke around with a DVOM without hurting it?

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail.net
http://www.sorryeverybody.com/

Jon Elson November 22nd 04 03:40 AM

B.B. wrote:
http://web2.airmail.net/thegoat4/stuff/gyro/

Anyone know anything about this contraption? I'd like to actually
spin it up just for the hell of it, but I'm afraid I may destroy it.
The tag in the fuzzy photo says:

TRANSMITTER
GYRO FLUX COMPASS
Reg. U.S. Pat. Off.
Mfr's Part No 12002-1-B Contract No W33-038 AC-3827
AN 5751-1 Ser. No. AF-44 57054
BENDIX AVIATION CORPORATION
ECLIPSE-POINEER DIVISION

I had one of these about 35 years ago. I probably still have some
of the parts off it. As I remember, it was a single-phase 115 V
400 Hz. One or more of those big metal-cased capacitors on the gyro
inner gimbal shifts the phase for the phase shifted winding to get it
started. You can probably get it to start spinning with a large stereo
amp and a signal generator. It doesn't actually take a lot of power,
but the larger stereo amps can develop 70+ volts output. To get more
voltage, you can bridge it across the two output channels' hot
terminals. Then, you'd need to supply signals 180 degrees out of phase
to the two amplifier inputs.

You could also apply 18 V at 60 Hz to it, but I don't know if that will
spin it up to 3600 RPM. You'd also need to increas the phase shift cap
by a factor of 6.3 Normal speed would be about 22000 RPM at 400 Hz.

Jon


Andy Asberry November 22nd 04 05:32 AM

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 17:50:52 -0600, "B.B."
u wrote:

http://web2.airmail.net/thegoat4/stuff/gyro/

Anyone know anything about this contraption? I'd like to actually
spin it up just for the hell of it, but I'm afraid I may destroy it.
The tag in the fuzzy photo says:

TRANSMITTER
GYRO FLUX COMPASS
Reg. U.S. Pat. Off.
Mfr's Part No 12002-1-B Contract No W33-038 AC-3827
AN 5751-1 Ser. No. AF-44 57054
BENDIX AVIATION CORPORATION
ECLIPSE-POINEER DIVISION

The plug on it has seven pins in a symmetrical hex pattern with one
pin in the center.
No more pictures--camera died. Damnit!


Ping Jim Weir on rec.aviation.homebuilt

Jerry J. Wass November 22nd 04 07:12 AM

I have one similar--110V-3ph 400cycles---I took an old ford alternator,
tapped off the three 3ph wires where they tie to the rectifiers, drove it
with a 1/4-+_ electric motor w/ pulleys & belt
and spun it up real nicely. if I recall, I had about 70 Volts at around 400
cycles--
other alternators might be different--but most anything ought to get it
going.. you realize voltage & frequency both increase at the same time--

Jon Elson wrote:

B.B. wrote:
http://web2.airmail.net/thegoat4/stuff/gyro/

Anyone know anything about this contraption? I'd like to actually
spin it up just for the hell of it, but I'm afraid I may destroy it.
The tag in the fuzzy photo says:

TRANSMITTER
GYRO FLUX COMPASS
Reg. U.S. Pat. Off.
Mfr's Part No 12002-1-B Contract No W33-038 AC-3827
AN 5751-1 Ser. No. AF-44 57054
BENDIX AVIATION CORPORATION
ECLIPSE-POINEER DIVISION

I had one of these about 35 years ago. I probably still have some
of the parts off it. As I remember, it was a single-phase 115 V
400 Hz. One or more of those big metal-cased capacitors on the gyro
inner gimbal shifts the phase for the phase shifted winding to get it
started. You can probably get it to start spinning with a large stereo
amp and a signal generator. It doesn't actually take a lot of power,
but the larger stereo amps can develop 70+ volts output. To get more
voltage, you can bridge it across the two output channels' hot
terminals. Then, you'd need to supply signals 180 degrees out of phase
to the two amplifier inputs.

You could also apply 18 V at 60 Hz to it, but I don't know if that will
spin it up to 3600 RPM. You'd also need to increas the phase shift cap
by a factor of 6.3 Normal speed would be about 22000 RPM at 400 Hz.

Jon



Jerry J. Wass November 22nd 04 07:17 AM



"Jerry J. Wass" wrote:

I have one similar--110V-3ph 400cycles---I took an old ford alternator,
tapped off the three 3ph wires where they tie to the rectifiers, drove it
with a 1/4-+_ electric motor w/ pulleys & belt
and spun it up real nicely. if I recall, I had about 70 Volts at around 400
cycles--
other alternators might be different--but most anything ought to get it
going.. you realize voltage & frequency both increase at the same time--



Also, your picture clearly shows the three 3ph wires coming out of the gymbal
from the field winding.



Jon Elson wrote:

B.B. wrote:
http://web2.airmail.net/thegoat4/stuff/gyro/

Anyone know anything about this contraption? I'd like to actually
spin it up just for the hell of it, but I'm afraid I may destroy it.
The tag in the fuzzy photo says:

TRANSMITTER
GYRO FLUX COMPASS
Reg. U.S. Pat. Off.
Mfr's Part No 12002-1-B Contract No W33-038 AC-3827
AN 5751-1 Ser. No. AF-44 57054
BENDIX AVIATION CORPORATION
ECLIPSE-POINEER DIVISION

I had one of these about 35 years ago. I probably still have some
of the parts off it. As I remember, it was a single-phase 115 V
400 Hz. One or more of those big metal-cased capacitors on the gyro
inner gimbal shifts the phase for the phase shifted winding to get it
started. You can probably get it to start spinning with a large stereo
amp and a signal generator. It doesn't actually take a lot of power,
but the larger stereo amps can develop 70+ volts output. To get more
voltage, you can bridge it across the two output channels' hot
terminals. Then, you'd need to supply signals 180 degrees out of phase
to the two amplifier inputs.

You could also apply 18 V at 60 Hz to it, but I don't know if that will
spin it up to 3600 RPM. You'd also need to increas the phase shift cap
by a factor of 6.3 Normal speed would be about 22000 RPM at 400 Hz.

Jon



DoN. Nichols November 22nd 04 08:16 AM

In article . net,
Michelle P wrote:

B.B. wrote:

http://web2.airmail.net/thegoat4/stuff/gyro/

Anyone know anything about this contraption? I'd like to actually
spin it up just for the hell of it, but I'm afraid I may destroy it.
The tag in the fuzzy photo says:


According to the pictures it looks like a Flux gate. It measures earths
magnetic field. It is old.
Most likely 28 volts DC. Power to the wrong pins will ruin the unit.


Hmm ... I've got two old Sperry gyrocompass type devices, which
run from 115 VAC 3 phase, 400 Hz, and several of the points which I see
suggest that this one does too.

Granted -- in the aircraft, the 115 V 3ph 400 Hz was generated
by a motor-generator run from 28 VDC, but that was external to the gyro.

The slip-rings in the gimbal bearings are carrying three signals
in, and the triangular pattern of the capacitors (I think) suggests that
this one runs from three phase, too.

Mine, which was designed to run entirely in the instrument
panel, has only a three-pin connector to feed it power. Yours is
designed as a transmitter unit, to feed information to remotely-located
panel indicators.

One of mine is a gyrocompass (the axis of the gyro is
horizontal). The other is an artificial horizon (the axis of the gyro
is vertical).

Both have torque motors surrounding the gimbal bearings, and a
small dome-shaped object with five contacts and conductive liquid in
them (possibly salt water), which feeds a balanced signal to the torque
motors when the dome is pointed straight down (according to gravity).
If it gets off level, it feeds an unbalanced signal to the torque
motors, and forces the gyro to precess until its orientation is correct.
This correction happens in perhaps the first fifteen seconds after
power-up (and you can see the indicators wobbling like mad). After
that, if there is any slow drift, it will correct that, as well. (But
it might get errors introduced during continuous acceleration or
deceleration -- or perhaps even continuous turning.)

Anyway -- I suspect that at least the gyro motor is spun up by
the 115V 3ph, 400 Hz, and I also suspect that there are synchros or
resolvers running from 400 Hz as well, to transmit the information from
the gyro to the remote unit. Let's see -- the gyro motor needs three
pins to power it, and the synchros have normally five pins, two of which
(the excitation voltage) could be shared with two of the three phases to
drive the synchro, requiring only six pins. It may be that the synchro
excitation is separate (as it is normally 26 VAC 400 Hz), or that the
last pin is a control voltage to cage the gyro prior to spinning it
down. In any case, synchros have three wires on the output signals, or
resolvers have four -- so that could also account for the last pin.

You might try tracing the wires back from the slip rings which
take power to the motor to determine which pins they are. I would
*guess* (but please test) that they are pins A, B, and C (or 1, 2, and
3, if the connector uses numbered pins.) The rest of the pins don't
matter if all you want to is to spin it up. However, you may need them
if you want to feed the signal to a display.

Note that some VFDs (including my larger Mitsubishi ones) can be
convinced to produce 400 Hz -- and can be convinced to back the voltage
down to 115 VAC. Unfortunately, the most appropriate one, my 1/8 HP
one, won't go that high in frequency. Obviously, the VFD is not what
you want if you intend to mount this in your car or boat -- as the 220
VAC 60 Hz power cord would get a bit long. :-)

Good Luck,
DoN.


--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

HaroldA102 November 22nd 04 12:03 PM


It would be nice to get afull veiw of part
I used to work for a insturment repair shop
A strip and dip shop .Thay had soild state
power supplys .Millions of parts shoe factorys full of parts

B.B. November 22nd 04 03:28 PM

In article
,
"B.B." u wrote:

http://web2.airmail.net/thegoat4/stuff/gyro/

Anyone know anything about this contraption? I'd like to actually
spin it up just for the hell of it, but I'm afraid I may destroy it.
The tag in the fuzzy photo says:

TRANSMITTER
GYRO FLUX COMPASS
Reg. U.S. Pat. Off.
Mfr's Part No 12002-1-B Contract No W33-038 AC-3827
AN 5751-1 Ser. No. AF-44 57054
BENDIX AVIATION CORPORATION
ECLIPSE-POINEER DIVISION

The plug on it has seven pins in a symmetrical hex pattern with one
pin in the center.
No more pictures--camera died. Damnit!


More info about the thing:

I *think* this one is supposed to mount with the plug sticking
straight upward and the window facing the back of the plane. "Aft"
down. In that orientation the gimbal will always settle with the butt
end of it down. Any other way it'll settle at some weird angle that's
very unstable.
This has a mechanical caging device. A tag on the case says to run
it for a few fre minutes and then rotate a knob. On the tail of the
rear is a small port with a silted shaft inside. Rotating it will move
a small arm in the rear that has a latch at the base. After a full
revolution the arm and latch will retract slightly, releasing the gyro.
The pin it caught was what I was holding in one of the photos of the
inside. I had a photo of the caging arm, but that's stuck inside my
dead camera.

Two of the pins are wired together, so, six wires. The seven pins
are labeled A-G, A & C are tied together. Unfortunately, I'm nearly
totally colorblind and the wires are faded, so I don't know what color
goes where. I'll show an artsy-fartsy friend of mine and see if I can
trace 'em.

All six wires go all the way to the gyro--there don't seem to be any
sort of sensors on any of the bearings.

The delta-shaped arrangement looks like it may be a transformer or a
bunch of inductors. Of all three rectangular objects, each has two
metal plates going through in parallel and the wires going in go into
the jacket. I can't tell if the two strips are connected, but I don't
think they are.

The two large capacitors are in parallel. Both ends are tied to
wires that go into the gyro housing. One wire from the gimbal feeds to
one of the the capacitors, but all the rest go through the delta thingy.

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail.net
http://www.sorryeverybody.com/

Bob Chilcoat November 22nd 04 04:02 PM

I have the rotor from something similar. The shaft has three contacts on
the end that obviously carry current to the windings. The gyro, roughly
2.5" in diameter, spins around this shaft on precision bearings. I suspect
that mine is an "inside out" three phase induction motor, but I've never
been able to get it going because I don't know what voltage to apply to the
windings.

I read one time about a physics professor who had a large military surplus
ship's gyro mounted in a suitcase. He travelled a lot and could spin it up
(I think is was compressed air powered) inside the suitcase in the cab on
his way from the airport to his hotel. When he got there, he would carry
his bags into the hotel, being careful to keep the orientation of the gyro
suitcase constant. After he checked in he would let the bellhop get his
bags. As soon as the bellhop picked up the gyro suitcase and turned around
to go toward the elevators, the suitcase would levitate upward around the
handle and the bellhop would get into a terrible fix trying to wrestle with
the suitcase which had seemingly come alive as far as he was concerned. I
always wanted to build something like that.

--
Bob (Chief Pilot, White Knuckle Airways)

I don't have to like Bush and Cheney (Or Kerry, for that matter) to love
America

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
rvers.com...
B.B. wrote:
http://web2.airmail.net/thegoat4/stuff/gyro/

Anyone know anything about this contraption? I'd like to actually
spin it up just for the hell of it, but I'm afraid I may destroy it.
The tag in the fuzzy photo says:

TRANSMITTER
GYRO FLUX COMPASS
Reg. U.S. Pat. Off.
Mfr's Part No 12002-1-B Contract No W33-038 AC-3827
AN 5751-1 Ser. No. AF-44 57054
BENDIX AVIATION CORPORATION
ECLIPSE-POINEER DIVISION

I had one of these about 35 years ago. I probably still have some
of the parts off it. As I remember, it was a single-phase 115 V
400 Hz. One or more of those big metal-cased capacitors on the gyro
inner gimbal shifts the phase for the phase shifted winding to get it
started. You can probably get it to start spinning with a large stereo
amp and a signal generator. It doesn't actually take a lot of power,
but the larger stereo amps can develop 70+ volts output. To get more
voltage, you can bridge it across the two output channels' hot
terminals. Then, you'd need to supply signals 180 degrees out of phase
to the two amplifier inputs.

You could also apply 18 V at 60 Hz to it, but I don't know if that will
spin it up to 3600 RPM. You'd also need to increas the phase shift cap
by a factor of 6.3 Normal speed would be about 22000 RPM at 400 Hz.

Jon




Jerry Martes November 22nd 04 04:43 PM


DoN

I'm pretty sure nobody cares for this thread, but, 110 vac 3 phase "400Hz"
can be generated with a Delco alternator (for any old car) coupled to a 3450
motor.

Jerry


"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
Michelle P wrote:

B.B. wrote:

http://web2.airmail.net/thegoat4/stuff/gyro/

Anyone know anything about this contraption? I'd like to actually
spin it up just for the hell of it, but I'm afraid I may destroy it.
The tag in the fuzzy photo says:


According to the pictures it looks like a Flux gate. It measures earths
magnetic field. It is old.
Most likely 28 volts DC. Power to the wrong pins will ruin the unit.


Hmm ... I've got two old Sperry gyrocompass type devices, which
run from 115 VAC 3 phase, 400 Hz, and several of the points which I see
suggest that this one does too.

Granted -- in the aircraft, the 115 V 3ph 400 Hz was generated
by a motor-generator run from 28 VDC, but that was external to the gyro.

The slip-rings in the gimbal bearings are carrying three signals
in, and the triangular pattern of the capacitors (I think) suggests that
this one runs from three phase, too.

Mine, which was designed to run entirely in the instrument
panel, has only a three-pin connector to feed it power. Yours is
designed as a transmitter unit, to feed information to remotely-located
panel indicators.

One of mine is a gyrocompass (the axis of the gyro is
horizontal). The other is an artificial horizon (the axis of the gyro
is vertical).

Both have torque motors surrounding the gimbal bearings, and a
small dome-shaped object with five contacts and conductive liquid in
them (possibly salt water), which feeds a balanced signal to the torque
motors when the dome is pointed straight down (according to gravity).
If it gets off level, it feeds an unbalanced signal to the torque
motors, and forces the gyro to precess until its orientation is correct.
This correction happens in perhaps the first fifteen seconds after
power-up (and you can see the indicators wobbling like mad). After
that, if there is any slow drift, it will correct that, as well. (But
it might get errors introduced during continuous acceleration or
deceleration -- or perhaps even continuous turning.)

Anyway -- I suspect that at least the gyro motor is spun up by
the 115V 3ph, 400 Hz, and I also suspect that there are synchros or
resolvers running from 400 Hz as well, to transmit the information from
the gyro to the remote unit. Let's see -- the gyro motor needs three
pins to power it, and the synchros have normally five pins, two of which
(the excitation voltage) could be shared with two of the three phases to
drive the synchro, requiring only six pins. It may be that the synchro
excitation is separate (as it is normally 26 VAC 400 Hz), or that the
last pin is a control voltage to cage the gyro prior to spinning it
down. In any case, synchros have three wires on the output signals, or
resolvers have four -- so that could also account for the last pin.

You might try tracing the wires back from the slip rings which
take power to the motor to determine which pins they are. I would
*guess* (but please test) that they are pins A, B, and C (or 1, 2, and
3, if the connector uses numbered pins.) The rest of the pins don't
matter if all you want to is to spin it up. However, you may need them
if you want to feed the signal to a display.

Note that some VFDs (including my larger Mitsubishi ones) can be
convinced to produce 400 Hz -- and can be convinced to back the voltage
down to 115 VAC. Unfortunately, the most appropriate one, my 1/8 HP
one, won't go that high in frequency. Obviously, the VFD is not what
you want if you intend to mount this in your car or boat -- as the 220
VAC 60 Hz power cord would get a bit long. :-)

Good Luck,
DoN.


--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---




Jon Elson November 22nd 04 06:18 PM

B.B. wrote:

All six wires go all the way to the gyro--there don't seem to be any
sort of sensors on any of the bearings.

Right, this is not a closed-loop gyro where servo amplifiers control
torquer motors on the gimbals. It is just a free gyro.
The delta-shaped arrangement looks like it may be a transformer or a
bunch of inductors.

That is the flux gate. The earth's magnetic field passes through the
iron in those flux gates and is picked up by a sensor. There is some
procedure where every hour or so you read the flux gate and realign
the gyro's remote indicator with the earth's magnetic field.
Of all three rectangular objects, each has two
metal plates going through in parallel and the wires going in go into
the jacket. I can't tell if the two strips are connected, but I don't
think they are.

The two large capacitors are in parallel. Both ends are tied to
wires that go into the gyro housing.

Yes, these are the phase shift capacitors that allow the motor to run on
single-phase power. From the motor, there should be one wire that runs
straight to the connector. Another external wire goes to the motor, but
also to the capacitors. And, finally, there should be one motor wire
that just goes to the capacitors. The external wires should have
connectivity to capacitor terminals. And, these should show no
connectivity to any other wires.
One wire from the gimbal feeds to
one of the the capacitors, but all the rest go through the delta thingy.

Yup.

Of course, you still have the problem of coming up with 400 Hz
single-phase power.

Jon


HaroldA102 November 22nd 04 06:31 PM


I have a 400 single phase motor gen

Ted Edwards November 22nd 04 07:43 PM

B.B. wrote:

inside. I had a photo of the caging arm, but that's stuck inside my
dead camera.


What camera? How did it die?

When mine "stuck" I removed the batteries and set it aside until it shut
down completely. I then replaced the batteries and it was fine.

Ted


B.B. November 22nd 04 08:05 PM

In article ,
Ted Edwards wrote:

B.B. wrote:

inside. I had a photo of the caging arm, but that's stuck inside my
dead camera.


What camera? How did it die?

When mine "stuck" I removed the batteries and set it aside until it shut
down completely. I then replaced the batteries and it was fine.

Ted


It refuses to read any cards. I have two cards, the old one I tried
reformatting with the computer after the camera butchered it, and no
change. Tried letting it sit sans batteries for a while too.
Olympus D-460. It's always been kind of temperamental. I figure it
was built on a friday close to the bell. Figures it would crap out just
when I get back to updating my website.

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail.net
http://www.sorryeverybody.com/

Jerry Martes November 22nd 04 10:36 PM


"B.B." u wrote in message
...
In article ,
Ted Edwards wrote:

B.B. wrote:

inside. I had a photo of the caging arm, but that's stuck inside my
dead camera.


What camera? How did it die?

When mine "stuck" I removed the batteries and set it aside until it shut
down completely. I then replaced the batteries and it was fine.

Ted


It refuses to read any cards. I have two cards, the old one I tried
reformatting with the computer after the camera butchered it, and no
change. Tried letting it sit sans batteries for a while too.
Olympus D-460. It's always been kind of temperamental. I figure it
was built on a friday close to the bell. Figures it would crap out just
when I get back to updating my website.

--
B.B.


BB

It is probably *not* a good idea to format your camera's memory card with
it *in* the computer. It is best to follow the camera's formatting
procedure be followed carefully.

Jerry (who has ruined camera memory)



Don Foreman November 22nd 04 10:57 PM

If the memory cards are Olympus, try a different brand. I had
problems with Oly memory cards in my Oly C-2500L but have never had a
problem with Kingston memory cards.

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 13:05:14 -0600, "B.B."
u wrote:


It refuses to read any cards. I have two cards, the old one I tried
reformatting with the computer after the camera butchered it, and no
change. Tried letting it sit sans batteries for a while too.
Olympus D-460. It's always been kind of temperamental. I figure it
was built on a friday close to the bell. Figures it would crap out just
when I get back to updating my website.



B.B. November 23rd 04 12:06 AM

In article rs.com,
Jon Elson wrote:

B.B. wrote:

All six wires go all the way to the gyro--there don't seem to be any
sort of sensors on any of the bearings.

Right, this is not a closed-loop gyro where servo amplifiers control
torquer motors on the gimbals. It is just a free gyro.
The delta-shaped arrangement looks like it may be a transformer or a
bunch of inductors.

That is the flux gate. The earth's magnetic field passes through the
iron in those flux gates and is picked up by a sensor. There is some
procedure where every hour or so you read the flux gate and realign
the gyro's remote indicator with the earth's magnetic field.


What kind of signal comes out of the flux gate? Could I determine
which are which by probing them while I move a magnet around near the
gyro?
Ooh, I could build a gauss-o-meter.

Of all three rectangular objects, each has two
metal plates going through in parallel and the wires going in go into
the jacket. I can't tell if the two strips are connected, but I don't
think they are.

The two large capacitors are in parallel. Both ends are tied to
wires that go into the gyro housing.

Yes, these are the phase shift capacitors that allow the motor to run on
single-phase power. From the motor, there should be one wire that runs
straight to the connector. Another external wire goes to the motor, but
also to the capacitors. And, finally, there should be one motor wire
that just goes to the capacitors. The external wires should have
connectivity to capacitor terminals. And, these should show no
connectivity to any other wires.


Exactly what I needed to know. Thanks!

One wire from the gimbal feeds to
one of the the capacitors, but all the rest go through the delta thingy.

Yup.

Of course, you still have the problem of coming up with 400 Hz
single-phase power.


I like the stereo idea someone mentioned. My dad could probably
borrow a signal generator from work.

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail.net
http://www.sorryeverybody.com/

DoN. Nichols November 23rd 04 03:54 AM

In article ,
Bob Chilcoat wrote:
I have the rotor from something similar. The shaft has three contacts on
the end that obviously carry current to the windings. The gyro, roughly
2.5" in diameter, spins around this shaft on precision bearings. I suspect
that mine is an "inside out" three phase induction motor, but I've never
been able to get it going because I don't know what voltage to apply to the
windings.


It sounds like what I have -- except that I think that the gyro
rotor is only 2" diameter. (It has been quite a while since I was last
in there, and I never actually thought of measuring it.)

IIRC, it mounted by a threaded extension of the shaft on one
end, and had three leaf-spring contacts on the three symmetrical button
contacts. Yes, it was an inverted rotor design.

And if it is aircraft related, it will want 115 V 3 Ph 400 Hz
power to reach full speed.

Really old panel-mounted gyrocompasses used turbine insets in the
edge of the rotor, and were spun up by compressed air from the
aircraft's motion, IIRC.

I read one time about a physics professor who had a large military surplus
ship's gyro mounted in a suitcase. He travelled a lot and could spin it up
(I think is was compressed air powered) inside the suitcase in the cab on
his way from the airport to his hotel.


Navy gyros would be more likely to be run from 60 Hz, as the
weight limitation would not be there that is present in aircraft. I've
had various bits of Navy electronic equipment, and it was all 60 Hz
powered.

But a gyro for an old aircraft could work from a small bottle of
compressed gas -- CO2, perhaps.

When he got there, he would carry
his bags into the hotel, being careful to keep the orientation of the gyro
suitcase constant. After he checked in he would let the bellhop get his
bags. As soon as the bellhop picked up the gyro suitcase and turned around
to go toward the elevators, the suitcase would levitate upward around the
handle and the bellhop would get into a terrible fix trying to wrestle with
the suitcase which had seemingly come alive as far as he was concerned. I
always wanted to build something like that.


Yep. If the bellhop knew what he was dealing with, all he would
have to do is apply pressure at 90 degrees to the intended turn and it
would turn as he wanted.

You could make your own, and have it spun up with a gas jet
aimed at the steps in the edge of the rotor -- and you would only need
a dividing head and an endmill to make the steps. (That gets us back to
metalworking. ) Hmm ... maybe I should try my hand at making one. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Ted Edwards November 25th 04 03:07 AM

B.B. wrote:

It refuses to read any cards. I have two cards, the old one I tried
reformatting with the computer after the camera butchered it, and no
change. Tried letting it sit sans batteries for a while too.


I once got a card working when the camera refused to format it by
formatting it (FAT) in the computer then re-formatting it in the camera.

Ted



B.B. November 25th 04 04:54 AM

In article ,
Ted Edwards wrote:

B.B. wrote:

It refuses to read any cards. I have two cards, the old one I tried
reformatting with the computer after the camera butchered it, and no
change. Tried letting it sit sans batteries for a while too.


I once got a card working when the camera refused to format it by
formatting it (FAT) in the computer then re-formatting it in the camera.

Ted


Either my camera is a hunk of crap that can't format on its own, or
it's so far gone that it downright refuses to format anything. When I
start the camera with a card is says "CARD ERROR," but when I start it
without a card it says "CARD MISSING."
I know this much--the computer reads both cards just fine.

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail.net
http://www.sorryeverybody.com/

Militoy December 10th 04 01:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by B.B.
http://web2.airmail.net/thegoat4/stuff/gyro/

Anyone know anything about this contraption? I'd like to actually
spin it up just for the hell of it, but I'm afraid I may destroy it.
The tag in the fuzzy photo says:

TRANSMITTER
GYRO FLUX COMPASS
Reg. U.S. Pat. Off.
Mfr's Part No 12002-1-B Contract No W33-038 AC-3827
AN 5751-1 Ser. No. AF-44 57054
BENDIX AVIATION CORPORATION
ECLIPSE-POINEER DIVISION

The plug on it has seven pins in a symmetrical hex pattern with one
pin in the center.
No more pictures--camera died. Damnit!

--
B.B. --I am not a goat! thegoat4 at airmail.net
http://www.sorryeverybody.com/

I just bought one of the same type today for $10. The supplier (Apex Surplus in San Fernando, CA) has around 800 for sale. Mine is kind of corroded, so I may need to get them to swap for a cleaner one - I'll find out when I fire it up tomorrow. This model was originally built by Eclipse Pioneer (div. of Bendix), and is the heart of the autopilot system for the B29, and other WWII warbirds. I found reference to the contract number (W33-038AC-3827) dated 1943, so that's about the time they were built. I have both single and 3-phase 400 Hz power available here, so I'll post back when I find which connections work, assuming the rotor isn't locked. Militoy

HaroldA102 December 10th 04 05:23 AM


bud the guy i used to work for got 400.00
for them at one time .thay probly still do i
dare you to call and ask do not tell
them who sent you.email me if you want there phone number

Militoy December 27th 04 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HaroldA102
bud the guy i used to work for got 400.00
for them at one time .thay probly still do..

Well, they're $10 here - though not all in very good condition. The first one I opened was too corroded to run, but the second one was just fine. Looking at the connector from the outside, the first and second pins clockwise from the index key are the input pins for the gyro motor. Apply 115V 400 Hz single-phase power to those pins (that's the black and yellow wires if the gyro is open), and they run just fine. Lots of "reaction push" for such a little gyro, and the little ball-and-gear assembly makes the gyro slowly self-right if it starts off-camber. I was mistaken on the aircraft I.D. in my post above - these were first used on the B-17, as opposed to the bomber I indicated. BTW - I'm using mine to run tests during development of a level-compensating sensor for the laser measurment system (LMS) on an autonomous vehicle being built to run in the Darpa Grand Challenge in the 2005 race. The base vehicle is a Scorpion (scorpion4x4.com). The actual gyro we use on the vehicle will be a solid-state one.

HaroldA102 December 28th 04 02:06 AM

thats y he died a millionaire he did not sell
cheap


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