Vague Cinci mill question
 

Vague advertisement, vague question...

There's a mill in range which is described as a Cincinnati
horizontal/vertical. Manual mill that's being shifted due to CNC
replacement, supposed to be in good shape, price seems reasonable.

Without having any idea what model it might be, precisely (until Monday,
anyway), my vague question is whether a Cincinnati with a vertical head
(sounds like it might be an optional head on a horizontal mill, but I'm
not sure of that) is likely to be a good bet - ie, it's not a
Bridgeport, and everybody loves a Bridgeport - is that likely to mean
it's not versatile, or tooling is hard to come by, or...

I already talked myself out of a huge, ancient, purely horizontal mill
at a bargain basement price.

--
Cats, Coffee, Chocolate...vices to live by

"Ecnerwal" wrote in message
...
Vague advertisement, vague question...

There's a mill in range which is described as a Cincinnati
horizontal/vertical. Manual mill that's being shifted due to CNC
replacement, supposed to be in good shape, price seems reasonable.

I think they're all big. What is reasonable? It should be nearly free,
judging by the market around NY, anyway.

Ecnerwal wrote:
Vague advertisement, vague question...

There's a mill in range which is described as a Cincinnati
horizontal/vertical. Manual mill that's being shifted due to CNC
replacement, supposed to be in good shape, price seems reasonable.

Without having any idea what model it might be, precisely (until Monday,
anyway), my vague question is whether a Cincinnati with a vertical head
(sounds like it might be an optional head on a horizontal mill, but I'm
not sure of that) is likely to be a good bet - ie, it's not a
Bridgeport, and everybody loves a Bridgeport - is that likely to mean
it's not versatile, or tooling is hard to come by, or...

I already talked myself out of a huge, ancient, purely horizontal mill
at a bargain basement price.


The horizontal spindles usually use just a couple of pretty standard
tapers. Can't be too sure what the vertical spindle is. It could be a
Bridgeport head mounted to the support arms, but I think Cinci did
actually make some combo machines that were in the same size range as
a Bridgeport. (They, of course, also made some absolutely gargantuan
machines, too.)

Jon

I have a Cincinnati 205-15 which is a horizontal/vertical machine. It
appears about 25% larger than a bridgeport but is in the 5500lb range. Of
course all power feed knee, and the same vertical head as the toolmasters.
If you decide not to buy this machine let me know, where is it located?
Personally I would like to have another Cincinnati such as a Toolmaster mill
but would consider another universal mill as well.

tim

"Ecnerwal" wrote in message
...
Vague advertisement, vague question...

There's a mill in range which is described as a Cincinnati
horizontal/vertical. Manual mill that's being shifted due to CNC
replacement, supposed to be in good shape, price seems reasonable.

Without having any idea what model it might be, precisely (until Monday,
anyway), my vague question is whether a Cincinnati with a vertical head
(sounds like it might be an optional head on a horizontal mill, but I'm
not sure of that) is likely to be a good bet - ie, it's not a
Bridgeport, and everybody loves a Bridgeport - is that likely to mean
it's not versatile, or tooling is hard to come by, or...

I already talked myself out of a huge, ancient, purely horizontal mill
at a bargain basement price.


Some Cincinnati mills have the #50 taper horizontal spindle with a powered
overarm that's also a 50 taper. With the motor and gears inside with manual
gear shifting. Head only moves left or right. Turn the head 90 degrees and
slide on the bearing support for the arbor. See this on Ebay as an example.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...2691 209&rd=1

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 02:50:39 GMT, Ecnerwal
wrote:

Vague advertisement, vague question...

There's a mill in range which is described as a Cincinnati
horizontal/vertical. Manual mill that's being shifted due to CNC
replacement, supposed to be in good shape, price seems reasonable.

Without having any idea what model it might be, precisely (until Monday,
anyway), my vague question is whether a Cincinnati with a vertical head
(sounds like it might be an optional head on a horizontal mill, but I'm
not sure of that) is likely to be a good bet - ie, it's not a
Bridgeport, and everybody loves a Bridgeport - is that likely to mean
it's not versatile, or tooling is hard to come by, or...

I already talked myself out of a huge, ancient, purely horizontal mill
at a bargain basement price.

Its likely to be a Cinnci horizontal with a vertical head. Which is
not a bad thing. Cinnci made good millers and the 2A (which this is
most likely to be) has a decent footprint and is about on the upper
end sizewise for a home shop. I missed one for a couple hundred bucks
a few years ago and still kick myself. Its probably 50 taper, though
many were in 40 taper,( which while more common, is more expensive due
to popularity)

The most common vertical head on a 2A is fixed IRRC and all up and
down must be down with the knee. The vertical adapter plugs into the
spindle directly through a right angle drive. This will not be as
versitile as a BP for use as a drill....shrug.

Though I have seen a vaguely BP type head on various similar
horizontal mills that do have quills and down feed and what not. I
pulled one such, off a K&T last year to do a conversion to a cam
cutter.

It should be a fine mill, but dont sell your Rung Fu yet G

But Gods..they can hog some metal...

Gunner



Come shed a tear for Michael Moore-
Though he smirked and lied like a two-bit whore
George Bush has just won another four.
Poor, sad little Michael Moore

Diogenes

Ecnerwal wrote in message ...
Vague advertisement, vague question...

There's a mill in range which is described as a Cincinnati
horizontal/vertical. Manual mill that's being shifted due to CNC
replacement, supposed to be in good shape, price seems reasonable.

Without having any idea what model it might be, precisely (until Monday,
anyway), my vague question is whether a Cincinnati with a vertical head
(sounds like it might be an optional head on a horizontal mill, but I'm


not sure of that) is likely to be a good bet - ie, it's not a
Bridgeport, and everybody loves a Bridgeport

this seems to be the part you are most interested in

with the following disclaimers
1 I am sorta a hobby-ist
2 I could be accused of being less trhan 100% objective

IMHO _most_ knoweldgeable persons would consider the Cincinnati
to be far superior to a Bridgeport

HTH
Dale




- is that likely to mean
it's not versatile, or tooling is hard to come by, or...

I already talked myself out of a huge, ancient, purely horizontal mill
at a bargain basement price.

--
Cats, Coffee, Chocolate...vices to live by

The seller says that it's #50 taper. I first guessed that this was only
the horizontal taper, since that seems to be the usual taper for
horizontal mills, but have since gone looking (and read the replys here)
and found that many versions of Cincinnati H/V do use a 50 taper in the
vertical head.

So I went looking (in MSCs catalog) for "things that fit a 50 taper" and
found many, many different prefixes on a 50 taper. CAT V 50, NMTB 50, BT
50, and possibly an ISO 50. My education in machining was primarily as a
Lab Tech, using the tooling that was associated with the tools we had,
so I'm damned if I know what the differences between all these 50 tapers
are. The argument that they are all the same seems questionable since
various things were offered in two or more of these prefixes.

I can see that buying any 50 taper toolholders at retail will quickly
exceed the price of the mill, and it's not coming with much tooling (the
disadvantage of working job shops .vs. dead people as tool suppliers -
the dead people's relatives often want "all that stuff" out of the
basement as a throw-in).

--
Cats, Coffee, Chocolate...vices to live by

"Ecnerwal" wrote in message
...
The seller says that it's #50 taper. I first guessed that this was only
the horizontal taper, since that seems to be the usual taper for
horizontal mills, but have since gone looking (and read the replys here)
and found that many versions of Cincinnati H/V do use a 50 taper in the
vertical head.

So I went looking (in MSCs catalog) for "things that fit a 50 taper" and
found many, many different prefixes on a 50 taper. CAT V 50, NMTB 50, BT
50, and possibly an ISO 50. My education in machining was primarily as a
Lab Tech, using the tooling that was associated with the tools we had,
so I'm damned if I know what the differences between all these 50 tapers
are. The argument that they are all the same seems questionable since
various things were offered in two or more of these prefixes.

I can see that buying any 50 taper toolholders at retail will quickly
exceed the price of the mill, and it's not coming with much tooling (the
disadvantage of working job shops .vs. dead people as tool suppliers -
the dead people's relatives often want "all that stuff" out of the
basement as a throw-in).

I saw a lot of 200 50 taper toolholders sell for $50. They are definitely
obtainable!

On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 16:01:13 GMT, Ecnerwal
wrote:

The seller says that it's #50 taper. I first guessed that this was only
the horizontal taper, since that seems to be the usual taper for
horizontal mills, but have since gone looking (and read the replys here)
and found that many versions of Cincinnati H/V do use a 50 taper in the
vertical head.

So I went looking (in MSCs catalog) for "things that fit a 50 taper" and
found many, many different prefixes on a 50 taper. CAT V 50, NMTB 50, BT
50, and possibly an ISO 50. My education in machining was primarily as a
Lab Tech, using the tooling that was associated with the tools we had,
so I'm damned if I know what the differences between all these 50 tapers
are. The argument that they are all the same seems questionable since
various things were offered in two or more of these prefixes.

I can see that buying any 50 taper toolholders at retail will quickly
exceed the price of the mill, and it's not coming with much tooling (the
disadvantage of working job shops .vs. dead people as tool suppliers -
the dead people's relatives often want "all that stuff" out of the
basement as a throw-in).

However...50 taper is VERY easy to find surplus and can be gotten very
cheaply.

I should further mention that virtually all of the various 50 taper
tools will fit the Cinci. You may have to make a new draw bolt for
some of it, but thats all. Shrug.

Ive had people try to give me 500 lbs of 50 taper tooling at a time,
simply because they didnt know what to do with it.

Gunner



Come shed a tear for Michael Moore-
Though he smirked and lied like a two-bit whore
George Bush has just won another four.
Poor, sad little Michael Moore

Diogenes

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 21 Nov 2004 16:01:13 GMT, Ecnerwal
wrote:

The seller says that it's #50 taper. I first guessed that this was only
the horizontal taper, since that seems to be the usual taper for
horizontal mills, but have since gone looking (and read the replys here)
and found that many versions of Cincinnati H/V do use a 50 taper in the
vertical head.

So I went looking (in MSCs catalog) for "things that fit a 50 taper" and
found many, many different prefixes on a 50 taper. CAT V 50, NMTB 50, BT
50, and possibly an ISO 50. My education in machining was primarily as a
Lab Tech, using the tooling that was associated with the tools we had,
so I'm damned if I know what the differences between all these 50 tapers
are. The argument that they are all the same seems questionable since
various things were offered in two or more of these prefixes.

I can see that buying any 50 taper toolholders at retail will quickly
exceed the price of the mill, and it's not coming with much tooling (the
disadvantage of working job shops .vs. dead people as tool suppliers -
the dead people's relatives often want "all that stuff" out of the
basement as a throw-in).

However...50 taper is VERY easy to find surplus and can be gotten very
cheaply.

I should further mention that virtually all of the various 50 taper
tools will fit the Cinci. You may have to make a new draw bolt for
some of it, but thats all. Shrug.


The cat 50 has one keyway that's not full depth. It will fit the Cincinnati
if you remove one drive key, or make one drive key shorter to fit the
different keyway.

Richard W.