Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Old February 7th 21, 05:41 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Get -40C in my fillet weld tensile break tests

"Richard Smith" wrote in message ...

"Jim Wilkins" writes:

http://physics.wm.edu/~labs/110/110_pdf/ch4.pdf
If the metal permanently deforms some of the kinetic energy converts
to heat.


Resilient design - make sure that in an extreme event, there's
not-a-lot / no abrupt breaking (low energy and structure is lost) and
a lot of distributed bending and deformation (high energy, and the
structure is still there)... :-)

Job as a welder - repair a height-restriction barrier at a supermarket
http://www.weldsmith.co.uk/dropbox/m...tS_htbarr.html
"Insert plates" so knocking it over again would be a long energy
consuming process.
--------------------------------

Around here bollards that are expected to stop vehicles to protect buildings
are 4" nominal pipe set in and filled with concrete. 4" pipe is actually
4.50" OD, and I acquired some free 3.5" pipe which is 4.0" OD and was
mistakenly cut and painted yellow to be bollards.

The pipe came with an 8' x 10' wooden shed a neighbor bought at a yard sale
and brought home on his flatbed equipment trailer. He and his
construction-worker friends had used it as rollers to muscle the 2400 lb
shed onto the trailer. Then I was enlisted to hoist the shed off the trailer
and lower it onto its new foundation. The pipe may be useful as rollers this
spring when I move a 4000+ lb oak log off the hillside where it fell and to
somewhere flat enough to set up my sawmill.

When I was building custom industrial machinery we muscled as much as 5000
lbs onto the truck. That's about the average weight of a stone in the
Pyramids. Customer [XY] had his just-delivered machine up on a forklift when
the break time buzzer sounded and the crew just left it there. When they
returned the machine had fallen flat on its face and the forklift was
standing up on end. I salvaged a bucket of electro-mechanical components
like Variacs from the rebuild.

I was in line (queue) at the industrial supply store behind an
inventor/engineer who was picking up the 2" ID bearings he had special
ordered for the 2" water pipe support on his tracking solar array. He was
very unhappy to belatedly discover that 2" pipe isn't anywhere near 2.0" in
diameter. I warned him that although the specified OD is 2.375" it isn't
truly round unless cleaned up on a lathe, which removes the protective
galvanizing.

I machined the thrust bearing for my solar array from stainless plate and
turned the ball race grooves with the sharpened back end of a carbide drill
bit. The housing is a PVC pipe fitting.

This show why engineers and inventors need good techs. The designer of the
Japanese Zero naval fighter complained in his memoir that a wartime shortage
of competent technicians seriously hindered the development of its
replacement, and their Navy depended on its pre-war design long after US
fighters 100 Kts faster had made it a death trap. German designers made the
same complaint, and I believe their late-war proliferation of scatterbrained
schemes was self-preservation. Towards the end even U-Boot crews were being
drafted as infantry for the Eastern Front.
https://www.historynet.com/extremes-amerika-bombers.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Die_Glocke_(hoax)
Like every secret project it needed a misleading cover story. Segway leaked
some whoppers to conceal what we were doing in the lab.
To me the detailed description appears to be of a very powerful X-Ray
source, a Death Ray against bombers, which unfortunately could only shoot
straight up due to its parabolic rotating Mercury anode, Tungsten being too
desperately needed elsewhere.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liquid-mirror_telescope
The proof-of-concept demo would of course use visible light, not X-rays.

The special Mercury may have been radioactive waste left from the recovery
of Radium metal by electrolysis, and perhaps the basis of "Red Mercury". The
round structure above would have held a lens or mirror to aim the beam of
X-rays, which is impossible with any known material, but ignorant
street-thug Nazi officials wouldn't know that. A convincing zapping demo
could be faked using a lens of silver chloride, which does focus equally
invisible infrared, and makes a plausible excuse to acquire large amounts of
the precious metal in a soft yellow/white form that could be smuggled into
Switzerland as cheese.


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Old February 7th 21, 07:45 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Get -40C in my fillet weld tensile break tests

"Richard Smith" wrote in message ...

"Jim Wilkins" writes:

http://physics.wm.edu/~labs/110/110_pdf/ch4.pdf
If the metal permanently deforms some of the kinetic energy converts
to heat.


Resilient design - make sure that in an extreme event, there's
not-a-lot / no abrupt breaking (low energy and structure is lost) and
a lot of distributed bending and deformation (high energy, and the
structure is still there)... :-)

Job as a welder - repair a height-restriction barrier at a supermarket
http://www.weldsmith.co.uk/dropbox/m...tS_htbarr.html
"Insert plates" so knocking it over again would be a long energy
consuming process.

--------------------------

A retired town snowplow driver told me that people who erect very solid
steel roadside mailbox stands that don't protect people or property from
damage have been asked to remove them before someone dies.

It's a difficult call, and I would make the part that breaks be easily
replaceable.

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Old February 7th 21, 08:46 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Get -40C in my fillet weld tensile break tests

"Jim Wilkins" writes:


Around here bollards that are expected to stop vehicles to protect
...
This show why engineers and inventors need good techs. The designer of
the Japanese Zero naval fighter complained in his memoir that a
wartime shortage of competent technicians seriously hindered the
development of its replacement, and their Navy depended on its pre-war
design long after US fighters 100 Kts faster had made it a death
trap. German designers made the same complaint, and I believe their
late-war proliferation of scatterbrained schemes was
self-preservation. Towards the end even U-Boot crews were being
drafted as infantry for the Eastern Front.
https://www.historynet.com/extremes-amerika-bombers.htm

...


There's a need for a spectrum of people, for sure.
Not the impression you get at the moment in the UK.
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Old February 8th 21, 12:12 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Get -40C in my fillet weld tensile break tests

On Friday, February 5, 2021 at 6:33:30 PM UTC-5, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Fri, 5 Feb 2021 17:40:49 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Joe Gwinn" wrote in message
...
...
Have liquid propane in the sealed copper boiler with a tube going
uphill to a copper condenser cooled by dry ice in alcohol.
...
The copper stuff can be ordinary plumbing tubing and fixtures. For a
one-off, plumbers solder is good enough. For a true seal, braze with
phosphorus-copper brazing filler, as used for HVAC systems.
...
Joe Gwinn

---------------------

The pipe fitting that enables making a condenser or similar concentric tube
structure is a pipe reducer with the smaller end bored through on a lathe.
Brass is easier than copper to chuck and turn. A 6-jaw chuck helps hold the
reducer without (much) distortion, or you can jam a fitted wood plug into
the large end.

I don't visualize this.

What I was thinking was a simple one-pipe system, with vapor going up
and condensate running down. The propane inventory need not be large.
When I learned industrial refrigeration in the 1970's this is what we brazed
joints with:
https://www.amazon.com/Lucas-Milhaupt-95150-Sil-Fos-Brazing-Alloy/dp/B06Y1N5517

Yeah, that's the stuff.

If you braze all the joints, you can hermetically seal the propane
inside the heat pipe. Make sure that the total volume is large enough
to prevent overpressure damage at room temperature. Or provide a
pressure releas valve and refill before each use.


Instead of the research grade propane, the fuel grade propane (R-290) may have around 5% methane (R-50) and butane (R-600) mixed in.
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Old February 8th 21, 02:09 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Get -40C in my fillet weld tensile break tests

On Sun, 7 Feb 2021 15:12:01 -0800 (PST), bruce bowser
wrote:

On Friday, February 5, 2021 at 6:33:30 PM UTC-5, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Fri, 5 Feb 2021 17:40:49 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Joe Gwinn" wrote in message
...
...
Have liquid propane in the sealed copper boiler with a tube going
uphill to a copper condenser cooled by dry ice in alcohol.
...
The copper stuff can be ordinary plumbing tubing and fixtures. For a
one-off, plumbers solder is good enough. For a true seal, braze with
phosphorus-copper brazing filler, as used for HVAC systems.
...
Joe Gwinn

---------------------

The pipe fitting that enables making a condenser or similar concentric tube
structure is a pipe reducer with the smaller end bored through on a lathe.
Brass is easier than copper to chuck and turn. A 6-jaw chuck helps hold the
reducer without (much) distortion, or you can jam a fitted wood plug into
the large end.

I don't visualize this.

What I was thinking was a simple one-pipe system, with vapor going up
and condensate running down. The propane inventory need not be large.
When I learned industrial refrigeration in the 1970's this is what we brazed
joints with:
https://www.amazon.com/Lucas-Milhaupt-95150-Sil-Fos-Brazing-Alloy/dp/B06Y1N5517

Yeah, that's the stuff.

If you braze all the joints, you can hermetically seal the propane
inside the heat pipe. Make sure that the total volume is large enough
to prevent overpressure damage at room temperature. Or provide a
pressure releas valve and refill before each use.


Instead of the research grade propane, the fuel grade propane (R-290) may have around 5% methane (R-50) and butane (R-600) mixed in.


Yes. The methane will do nothing, and the butane will freeze in the
condenser. As long as the condenser is large enough, it won't matter.

Joe Gwinn


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Old February 8th 21, 01:43 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Get -40C in my fillet weld tensile break tests

"Joe Gwinn" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 5 Feb 2021 17:40:49 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

The pipe fitting that enables making a condenser or similar concentric tube
structure is a pipe reducer with the smaller end bored through on a lathe.
Brass is easier than copper to chuck and turn. A 6-jaw chuck helps hold the
reducer without (much) distortion, or you can jam a fitted wood plug into
the large end.


I don't visualize this.

---------------------------------

Boring out the stop in the reducer's small end allows the smaller pipe to
pass through the fitting into the larger one, concentrically. I first did
this to run a cold water feed pipe through a former heating element hole to
near the opposite (lower) side of an old electric water heater tank that I'd
converted to solar and mounted horizontally.

It did adequately heat water for laundry without using electricity, but it
wasn't worth the fuss versus Cold Water Tide.

Are you ready for California-style electric rates and monthly allocations?
https://www.sce.com/residential/rate...ial-Rate-Plans

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Old February 8th 21, 06:15 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Get -40C in my fillet weld tensile break tests

On Friday, February 5, 2021 at 3:02:33 AM UTC-5, Richard Smith wrote:
"Jim Wilkins" writes:

"Joe Gwinn" wrote in message
...

Propane boils at -42 C at atmospheric pressure.

Joe Gwinn

-------------------------------
I checked the weather on Spitzbergen to see if the experiment could be
done at ambient temperature there.
https://www.accuweather.com/en/sj/lo...orecast/310461

Funny, New England USA was that cold over the weekend, and we are at
the latitude of Spain.
https://brilliantmaps.com/cities-transposed-latitude/


That must mean that the tip end of Narragansett is about the same average temperature as the well known shores of Spain in the summer time.

Spitzbergen idea - LOL !


Wow, images of Spitzbergen are nice. I get words like Spitzbergen and Zugspitze (the highest mountain in German, literally translated as "train peak") mixed up.
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Old February 8th 21, 08:07 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Get -40C in my fillet weld tensile break tests



"Transition Zone" wrote in message
...

On Friday, February 5, 2021 at 3:02:33 AM UTC-5, Richard Smith wrote:
"Jim Wilkins" writes:

"Joe Gwinn" wrote in message
...

Propane boils at -42 C at atmospheric pressure.

Joe Gwinn

-------------------------------
I checked the weather on Spitzbergen to see if the experiment could be
done at ambient temperature there.
https://www.accuweather.com/en/sj/lo...orecast/310461

Funny, New England USA was that cold over the weekend, and we are at
the latitude of Spain.
https://brilliantmaps.com/cities-transposed-latitude/


That must mean that the tip end of Narragansett is about the same average
temperature as the well known shores of Spain in the summer time.

Spitzbergen idea - LOL !


Wow, images of Spitzbergen are nice. I get words like Spitzbergen and
Zugspitze (the highest mountain in German, literally translated as "train
peak") mixed up.

----------------
Away from the coast the summertime highs here are quite close to Madrid's,
35C and above.

I rode the cable car up the Zugspitze and yes, it's spectacular.

My best memory of European mountains was flying low over the lesser-known
Swabian Jura (Alps) between Stuttgart and Augsburg in an Army helicopter
with a view straight down. Probably the worst was riding a speeding, tilting
van up the winding road to Hohenzollern castle and feeling like we were
about to fly off the road and tumble down the steep slope.

Emperor Frederick the Great was there, in a plain wooden coffin on sawhorses
in the castle's entrance.

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Old February 9th 21, 05:27 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Get -40C in my fillet weld tensile break tests

On Mon, 8 Feb 2021 07:43:16 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Joe Gwinn" wrote in message
.. .

On Fri, 5 Feb 2021 17:40:49 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

The pipe fitting that enables making a condenser or similar concentric tube
structure is a pipe reducer with the smaller end bored through on a lathe.
Brass is easier than copper to chuck and turn. A 6-jaw chuck helps hold the
reducer without (much) distortion, or you can jam a fitted wood plug into
the large end.


I don't visualize this.

---------------------------------

Boring out the stop in the reducer's small end allows the smaller pipe to
pass through the fitting into the larger one, concentrically. I first did
this to run a cold water feed pipe through a former heating element hole to
near the opposite (lower) side of an old electric water heater tank that I'd
converted to solar and mounted horizontally.

It did adequately heat water for laundry without using electricity, but it
wasn't worth the fuss versus Cold Water Tide.

Are you ready for California-style electric rates and monthly allocations?
https://www.sce.com/residential/rate...ial-Rate-Plans

In order to draw compressed air from the upper level of my inverted
propane cylinder storage tank; I bazed a half coupling into the inner
end of a reducing bushing (I don't have a welder) and inserted the
smaller pipe through a 3/4" "T" and nipple in the threaded boss. The
branch of the "T" serves as inlet and drain.
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Old February 9th 21, 12:18 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Get -40C in my fillet weld tensile break tests

"Gerry" wrote in message ...

In order to draw compressed air from the upper level of my inverted
propane cylinder storage tank; I bazed a half coupling into the inner
end of a reducing bushing (I don't have a welder) and inserted the
smaller pipe through a 3/4" "T" and nipple in the threaded boss. The
branch of the "T" serves as inlet and drain.

--------------------------

Something like this, in effect?
https://www.zoro.com/nibco-2-x-34-x-...x2/i/G1806664/



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