Hi folks,

I know this isn't quite metalwork, but is it a shop-related question and nothing to do with politics, so here goes...

If you take a piece of light softwood, such as pine or fir, and keep it submerged under water for a really long time - months or years - does it eventually absorb enough water so that it no longer floats?

Anyone know? I am assuming that the wood is not coated or treated, but my question refers to the behaviour of the wood before decay takes place.

Thanks!

Chris

On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 03:47:13 -0700 (PDT), Christopher Tidy
wrote:

Hi folks,

I know this isn't quite metalwork, but is it a shop-related question and nothing to do with politics, so here goes...

If you take a piece of light softwood, such as pine or fir, and keep it submerged under water for a really long time - months or years - does it eventually absorb enough water so that it no longer floats?

Anyone know? I am assuming that the wood is not coated or treated, but my question refers to the behaviour of the wood before decay takes place.

Thanks!

Chris


It can indeed. Old lumber holding ponds are proof of this.

__

"Journalists are extremely rare and shouldn’t be harmed, but propagandists are everywhere and should be hunted for sport"

Yeah..with no bag limit.




--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Christopher Tidy on Tue, 11 Aug 2020
03:47:13 -0700 (PDT) typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
Hi folks,

I know this isn't quite metalwork, but is it a shop-related question and nothing to do with politics, so here goes...

If you take a piece of light softwood, such as pine or fir, and keep it submerged under water for a really long time - months or years - does it eventually absorb enough water so that it no longer floats?

Anyone know? I am assuming that the wood is not coated or treated, but my question refers to the behaviour of the wood before decay takes place.

Generally water soaked wood will sink. It may take a while, but
some does.

OTOH, some doesn't and I have seen logging rafts left "too long"
which have plants growing on/in them.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

"Christopher Tidy" wrote in message
...

Hi folks,

I know this isn't quite metalwork, but is it a shop-related question and
nothing to do with politics, so here goes...

If you take a piece of light softwood, such as pine or fir, and keep it
submerged under water for a really long time - months or years - does it
eventually absorb enough water so that it no longer floats?

Anyone know? I am assuming that the wood is not coated or treated, but my
question refers to the behaviour of the wood before decay takes place.

Thanks!

Chris
======================
https://www.ecohome.net/guides/1473/...the-log-drive/

Thanks for the lumber pond tip and link. That's a good story there!

So wooden ships only continue to float after years because the planks expand and stop the interior of the hull filling with water, even if the individual planks would sink on their own?

Chris

On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 16:44:09 -0700 (PDT), Christopher Tidy
wrote:

Thanks for the lumber pond tip and link. That's a good story there!

So wooden ships only continue to float after years because the planks expand and stop the interior of the hull filling with water, even if the individual planks would sink on their own?

Chris

All ships "float" because the amount of water that they displace
equals the gross weight of the ship :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

On Tuesday, August 11, 2020 at 3:47:16 AM UTC-7, Christopher Tidy wrote:
Hi folks,

I know this isn't quite metalwork, but is it a shop-related question and nothing to do with politics, so here goes...

If you take a piece of light softwood, such as pine or fir, and keep it submerged under water for a really long time - months or years - does it eventually absorb enough water so that it no longer floats?

In Lake Washington, there's some old-growth logs that basically DID sink; a few that
are near shore have a few percent of wood above the water, The area was logged, and the
lake used for transport, around 1900.

I'm told that Salt Lake had some rail trestle timbers recovered in recent decades, that hadn't
rotted.

On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 03:47:13 -0700 (PDT), Christopher Tidy
wrote:

Hi folks,

I know this isn't quite metalwork, but is it a shop-related question and nothing to do with politics, so here goes...

If you take a piece of light softwood, such as pine or fir, and keep it submerged under water for a really long time - months or years - does it eventually absorb enough water so that it no longer floats?

Anyone know? I am assuming that the wood is not coated or treated, but my question refers to the behaviour of the wood before decay takes place.

Thanks!

Chris
Some species, yes. Cypress and pine.

Christopher Tidy on Tue, 11 Aug 2020
16:44:09 -0700 (PDT) typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
Thanks for the lumber pond tip and link. That's a good story there!

So wooden ships only continue to float after years because the planks expand and stop the interior of the hull filling with water, even if the individual planks would sink on their own?

Ships float because they displace more water than they weigh. And
no matter how tight those edges are, wooden boats leak. which is why
there are so many ways to make the hull water tight, starting with
packing the seams and on to tarring the bottoms.

if you fill a wooden boat with rocks and let the water in, it will
sink. You can then dive down and remove the rocks and the boat will
float. Assuming the wood isn't so water logged (or dense) that it
won't float.
I remember something about building the railroad through the
Amazon Jungle. The main engineer would just cut down trees, if the
logs sank he'd fish them out and use that wood for ties. Another
instance where "exotic woods" were used for mundane purposes because
there was lots of it and it was the only wood around.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

I remember something about building the railroad through the
Amazon Jungle. The main engineer would just cut down trees, if the
logs sank he'd fish them out and use that wood for ties. Another
instance where "exotic woods" were used for mundane purposes because
there was lots of it and it was the only wood around.

Can you remember where you heard that story? I'd like to read more about it.

Thanks!

Some species, yes. Cypress and pine.

Anyone know which species of lumber sank on the North American log drives? Looking at the black-and-white pictures, the bark looks like some kind of pine, but it's hard to be sure.

Chris

"Christopher Tidy" wrote in message
...

Thanks for the lumber pond tip and link. That's a good story there!

So wooden ships only continue to float after years because the planks expand
and stop the interior of the hull filling with water, even if the individual
planks would sink on their own?

Chris

================================================

The classic definition of a ship is "a hole in the water into which you pour
money."

Even very old iron ships stay afloat if you pour in enough money
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Warrior_(1860)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Olympia_(C-6)

Likewise it's funding, not physics, that keeps spacecraft up.

"Clare Snyder" wrote in message
...

On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 03:47:13 -0700 (PDT), Christopher Tidy
wrote:

Hi folks,

I know this isn't quite metalwork, but is it a shop-related question and
nothing to do with politics, so here goes...

If you take a piece of light softwood, such as pine or fir, and keep it
submerged under water for a really long time - months or years - does it
eventually absorb enough water so that it no longer floats?

Anyone know? I am assuming that the wood is not coated or treated, but my
question refers to the behaviour of the wood before decay takes place.

Thanks!

Chris
Some species, yes. Cypress and pine.
======================================
Oak survives for centuries under water:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vasa_(ship)

On Tue, 11 Aug 2020 03:47:13 -0700 (PDT), Christopher Tidy
wrote:

Hi folks,

I know this isn't quite metalwork, but is it a shop-related question and nothing to do with politics, so here goes...

If you take a piece of light softwood, such as pine or fir, and keep it submerged under water for a really long time - months or years - does it eventually absorb enough water so that it no longer floats?

Anyone know? I am assuming that the wood is not coated or treated, but my question refers to the behaviour of the wood before decay takes place.

Thanks!

Chris
Yeah, softwoods will become waterlogged and sink. If they sink into
cold oxygen free water of the right PH they will not rot. Even if the
bark is on the tree. In Lake Washington, for example, there are a lot
of trees that slid into the lake as they rode a huge landslide. If I
remember correctly the landslide occurred about a 1000 years ago and
was cause by a really big earthquake. The trees are owned by the
state. About 25 0r 30 years ago, I think it was, a fellow was pulling
these trees up in the dead of night because the old growth timber is
so valuable. I think the trees were hoisted onto a barge. Anyway, he
got busted. Ah, here's a link:
https://www.spokesman.com/stories/19...-forest-faces/
Eric

Christopher Tidy on Wed, 12 Aug 2020
03:14:40 -0700 (PDT) typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
I remember something about building the railroad through the
Amazon Jungle. The main engineer would just cut down trees, if the
logs sank he'd fish them out and use that wood for ties. Another
instance where "exotic woods" were used for mundane purposes because
there was lots of it and it was the only wood around.

Can you remember where you heard that story? I'd like to read more about it.

No. Sorry, One of those side digressions in an article about
something else entirely.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

"Jim Wilkins" on Wed, 12 Aug 2020 06:40:29
-0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
"Christopher Tidy" wrote in message
...

Thanks for the lumber pond tip and link. That's a good story there!

So wooden ships only continue to float after years because the planks expand
and stop the interior of the hull filling with water, even if the individual
planks would sink on their own?

Chris

=============================================== =

The classic definition of a ship is "a hole in the water into which you pour
money."

Even very old iron ships stay afloat if you pour in enough money
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HMS_Warrior_(1860)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Olympia_(C-6)

Likewise it's funding, not physics, that keeps spacecraft up.

And the prototype of an aircraft will fly once the weight of the
paperwork exceeds the Gross Take-off Weight.

--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

Christopher Tidy on Wed, 12 Aug 2020
03:16:55 -0700 (PDT) typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
Some species, yes. Cypress and pine.

Anyone know which species of lumber sank on the North American log drives? Looking at the black-and-white pictures, the bark looks like some kind of pine, but it's hard to be sure.

Depends on where the logging occurred. Lake Washington (Seattle)
is "full" of Fir trees. East of the Cascades it is pines. So what
sank was what was local.

Chris
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

I've been thinking about this topic for a week or two, and I was curious, so I submerged a block of softwood (pine, I think, but perhaps fir) in a tank of writing ink for 8 days.

Today I split the block of wood open with a chisel to see how far the ink had penetrated into the wood. Something like 3 to 6 millimetres parallel to the grain, but only a fraction of a millimetre perpendicular to the grain. The ink also soaks much deeper into the dark rings (summer growth, perhaps - does anyone know?) where the wood is more porous.

Here are some eye-candy pictures of my experiment for the wood fans to enjoy...

http://sphinx.mythic-beasts.com/~cdt...aked_Wood1.jpg
http://sphinx.mythic-beasts.com/~cdt...aked_Wood2.jpg
http://sphinx.mythic-beasts.com/~cdt...aked_Wood3.jpg
http://sphinx.mythic-beasts.com/~cdt...aked_Wood4.jpg

Thanks for the stories!

Chris

On 13/08/2020 00:30, Christopher Tidy wrote:
I've been thinking about this topic for a week or two, and I was curious, so I submerged a block of softwood (pine, I think, but perhaps fir) in a tank of writing ink for 8 days.

Today I split the block of wood open with a chisel to see how far the ink had penetrated into the wood. Something like 3 to 6 millimetres parallel to the grain, but only a fraction of a millimetre perpendicular to the grain. The ink also soaks much deeper into the dark rings (summer growth, perhaps - does anyone know?) where the wood is more porous.

Here are some eye-candy pictures of my experiment for the wood fans to enjoy...

http://sphinx.mythic-beasts.com/~cdt...aked_Wood1.jpg
http://sphinx.mythic-beasts.com/~cdt...aked_Wood2.jpg
http://sphinx.mythic-beasts.com/~cdt...aked_Wood3.jpg
http://sphinx.mythic-beasts.com/~cdt...aked_Wood4.jpg

Thanks for the stories!

Chris

It depends on how the wood cells break down after felling which depends
on the species and conditions. I don't know about soft woods but hard
wood such as oak varies a lot with English and European oak being
durable outdoors and American white oak but American red oak has cell
walls which break down readily and allow the wood to be permeated easily
which results in a short life outdoors, I have seen it mentioned that
you can blow smoke through a red oak plank end to end due to this, one
wood worker I know said 3-4 years for red oak outdoors and it's staring
to show rot, I have an English oak fence post at the boundary of my
property which is about 70 years old and while degraded is still largely
solid.

On Wed, 12 Aug 2020 03:16:55 -0700 (PDT), Christopher Tidy
wrote:

Some species, yes. Cypress and pine.

Anyone know which species of lumber sank on the North American log drives? Looking at the black-and-white pictures, the bark looks like some kind of pine, but it's hard to be sure.

Chris
Likely white pine

Christopher Tidy on Wed, 12 Aug 2020
16:30:09 -0700 (PDT) typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
I've been thinking about this topic for a week or two, and I was curious, so I submerged a block of softwood (pine, I think, but perhaps fir) in a tank of writing ink for 8 days.

Today I split the block of wood open with a chisel to see how far the ink had penetrated into the wood. Something like 3 to 6 millimetres parallel to the grain, but only a fraction of a millimetre perpendicular to the grain. The ink also soaks much deeper into the dark rings (summer growth, perhaps - does anyone know?) where the wood is more porous.

Here are some eye-candy pictures of my experiment for the wood fans to enjoy...

http://sphinx.mythic-beasts.com/~cdt...aked_Wood1.jpg
http://sphinx.mythic-beasts.com/~cdt...aked_Wood2.jpg
http://sphinx.mythic-beasts.com/~cdt...aked_Wood3.jpg
http://sphinx.mythic-beasts.com/~cdt...aked_Wood4.jpg

Thanks for the stories!

Chris

Cool. Now, what's your conditions?

Ack, my geek side emerges, "To Do A Proper Test!"
1) Compare a block free floating in the ink with the grain
parallel to the surface, to one free floating with the grain
perpendicular.
2) another set floating against a "stop" of some sort, partially
submerged.
3) another set held completely under, but this spins off further
experiments where the factor would be how deep the ink is, to gauge
the effects of pressure on the penetration.

Of course, comparisons could/should also be made of the moisture
content of the wood before and after. And track the temperature of
the ink solution as well as air pressure.

Then repeat for different species of wood (pine, fir, oak, poplar,
etc.)

Hmmm, sounds like the sort of thing one could get a grant for the
experiment in a Forestry Graduate program, or Engineering. After all,
is that not important information for such processes as "pressure
treating lumber"? _Permeability of solutions in processed select
lumber species._

enjoy

pyotr



--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

Am Freitag, 14. August 2020 15:57:53 UTC+2 schrieb pyotr filipivich:
Christopher Tidy on Wed, 12 Aug 2020
16:30:09 -0700 (PDT) typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
I've been thinking about this topic for a week or two, and I was curious, so I submerged a block of softwood (pine, I think, but perhaps fir) in a tank of writing ink for 8 days.

Today I split the block of wood open with a chisel to see how far the ink had penetrated into the wood. Something like 3 to 6 millimetres parallel to the grain, but only a fraction of a millimetre perpendicular to the grain. The ink also soaks much deeper into the dark rings (summer growth, perhaps - does anyone know?) where the wood is more porous.

Here are some eye-candy pictures of my experiment for the wood fans to enjoy...

http://sphinx.mythic-beasts.com/~cdt...aked_Wood1.jpg
http://sphinx.mythic-beasts.com/~cdt...aked_Wood2.jpg
http://sphinx.mythic-beasts.com/~cdt...aked_Wood3.jpg
http://sphinx.mythic-beasts.com/~cdt...aked_Wood4.jpg

Thanks for the stories!

Chris

Cool. Now, what's your conditions?

I placed the block (cube with a 60 mm side length) in a sandwich box filled with ink for 16 days. The block was held under the surface using a small chunk of foam. I turned the block over every four days, so it had four days with each end-grain surface at the bottom, and four days with each of two opposing cross-grain surfaces at the bottom.

If I remember correctly (I don't have the paper in front of me), the moisture content was 13% before the experiment. Afterwards it was off the scale, as you might expect, and the wood had absorbed about 25 grams of ink. It took about a week until the weight returned to its original value (about 85 grams) and the remaining dye didn't seem to affect this figure.

I'm planning to repeat the experiment (probably with water rather than ink), but coat some surfaces of the blocks with two-component epoxy paint, to determine the proportions of the water absorbed through the end-grain and cross-grain surfaces. I might also try the same with some blocks of okan instead of pine, but I suspect this will absorb very little water.

Ack, my geek side emerges, "To Do A Proper Test!"
1) Compare a block free floating in the ink with the grain
parallel to the surface, to one free floating with the grain
perpendicular.
2) another set floating against a "stop" of some sort, partially
submerged.
3) another set held completely under, but this spins off further
experiments where the factor would be how deep the ink is, to gauge
the effects of pressure on the penetration.

Of course, comparisons could/should also be made of the moisture
content of the wood before and after. And track the temperature of
the ink solution as well as air pressure.

Then repeat for different species of wood (pine, fir, oak, poplar,
etc.)

Hmmm, sounds like the sort of thing one could get a grant for the
experiment in a Forestry Graduate program, or Engineering. After all,
is that not important information for such processes as "pressure
treating lumber"? _Permeability of solutions in processed select
lumber species._

enjoy

pyotr



--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

I might also be tempted to run the same experiment with some vacuum, as I suspect the trapped air hinders the absorption, but I don't want to vaporise the ink and fill my vacuum pump with water...

Christopher Tidy on Fri, 14 Aug 2020
09:47:03 -0700 (PDT) typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
Am Freitag, 14. August 2020 15:57:53 UTC+2 schrieb pyotr filipivich:
Christopher Tidy on Wed, 12 Aug 2020
16:30:09 -0700 (PDT) typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
I've been thinking about this topic for a week or two, and I was curious, so I submerged a block of softwood (pine, I think, but perhaps fir) in a tank of writing ink for 8 days.

Today I split the block of wood open with a chisel to see how far the ink had penetrated into the wood. Something like 3 to 6 millimetres parallel to the grain, but only a fraction of a millimetre perpendicular to the grain. The ink also soaks much deeper into the dark rings (summer growth, perhaps - does anyone know?) where the wood is more porous.

Here are some eye-candy pictures of my experiment for the wood fans to enjoy...

http://sphinx.mythic-beasts.com/~cdt...aked_Wood1.jpg
http://sphinx.mythic-beasts.com/~cdt...aked_Wood2.jpg
http://sphinx.mythic-beasts.com/~cdt...aked_Wood3.jpg
http://sphinx.mythic-beasts.com/~cdt...aked_Wood4.jpg

Thanks for the stories!

Chris

Cool. Now, what's your conditions?

I placed the block (cube with a 60 mm side length) in a sandwich box filled with ink for 16 days. The block was held under the surface using a small chunk of foam. I turned the block over every four days, so it had four days with each end-grain surface at the bottom, and four days with each of two opposing cross-grain surfaces at the bottom.

If I remember correctly (I don't have the paper in front of me), the moisture content was 13% before the experiment. Afterwards it was off the scale, as you might expect, and the wood had absorbed about 25 grams of ink. It took about a week until the weight returned to its original value (about 85 grams) and the remaining dye didn't seem to affect this figure.

I'm planning to repeat the experiment (probably with water rather than ink), but coat some surfaces of the blocks with two-component epoxy paint, to determine the proportions of the water absorbed through the end-grain and cross-grain surfaces. I might also try the same with some blocks of okan instead of pine, but I suspect this will absorb very little water.

It looks to me that there is very little cross grain absorption.
Which is to be expected, trees move water 'vertically' with the grain.
Hence the reason for painting the end of an exposed 'stick' to prevent
checking, etc.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

Christopher Tidy on Fri, 14 Aug 2020
09:55:58 -0700 (PDT) typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
I might also be tempted to run the same experiment with some vacuum,
as I suspect the trapped air hinders the absorption, but I don't want to
vaporise the ink and fill my vacuum pump with water...

"But, but, but Science!"

De watering the vacuum line is "Merely Engineering(tm)!" (aka
"just money")

I can see a method of a vacuum pump hooked to a tank, which gets
pumped out, the line to the pump closed, then the line to the sample
chamber open. But as you said, you'll still be pumping water out of
solution, thus changing the concentration. Of course, you could seal
the sample so that it gets the vacuum, and not the entire container.

"Why don't you try that and write it up?" B-)


--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
...

Christopher Tidy on Fri, 14 Aug 2020
09:55:58 -0700 (PDT) typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
I might also be tempted to run the same experiment with some vacuum,
as I suspect the trapped air hinders the absorption, but I don't want to
vaporise the ink and fill my vacuum pump with water...

"But, but, but Science!"

De watering the vacuum line is "Merely Engineering(tm)!" (aka
"just money")

I can see a method of a vacuum pump hooked to a tank, which gets
pumped out, the line to the pump closed, then the line to the sample
chamber open. But as you said, you'll still be pumping water out of
solution, thus changing the concentration. Of course, you could seal
the sample so that it gets the vacuum, and not the entire container.

"Why don't you try that and write it up?" B-)

-
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

================================================== ======

With that setup you can also fill the wood with plastic resin.
https://www.instructables.com/id/Res...bilizing-Wood/

I boil wood in paraffin wax to weatherproof it for outdoor use, like pulley
sheaves and antenna insulators. The above-boiling wax makes the water sizzle
out. The urethane wax in toilet bowl rings is less brittle at low
temperatures.

I've been using a small Gast rotary vane pump on my vacuum oven if there was
much water to remove, and running it open afterwards to dry it. Has anyone
had a problem doing this?

On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 19:12:19 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
.. .

Christopher Tidy on Fri, 14 Aug 2020
09:55:58 -0700 (PDT) typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
I might also be tempted to run the same experiment with some vacuum,
as I suspect the trapped air hinders the absorption, but I don't want to
vaporise the ink and fill my vacuum pump with water...

"But, but, but Science!"

De watering the vacuum line is "Merely Engineering(tm)!" (aka
"just money")

I can see a method of a vacuum pump hooked to a tank, which gets
pumped out, the line to the pump closed, then the line to the sample
chamber open. But as you said, you'll still be pumping water out of
solution, thus changing the concentration. Of course, you could seal
the sample so that it gets the vacuum, and not the entire container.

"Why don't you try that and write it up?" B-)

-
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

================================================= =======

With that setup you can also fill the wood with plastic resin.
https://www.instructables.com/id/Res...bilizing-Wood/

I boil wood in paraffin wax to weatherproof it for outdoor use, like pulley
sheaves and antenna insulators. The above-boiling wax makes the water sizzle
out. The urethane wax in toilet bowl rings is less brittle at low
temperatures.

I've been using a small Gast rotary vane pump on my vacuum oven if there was
much water to remove, and running it open afterwards to dry it. Has anyone
had a problem doing this?
In a lab setup where water in a vacuum was involed, we used a flask of
silica gel between the chamber and the pump to dry the exhasted air
ahead of the pump.

"Gerry" wrote in message ...

On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 19:12:19 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
.. .

Christopher Tidy on Fri, 14 Aug 2020
09:55:58 -0700 (PDT) typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
I might also be tempted to run the same experiment with some vacuum,
as I suspect the trapped air hinders the absorption, but I don't want to
vaporise the ink and fill my vacuum pump with water...

"But, but, but Science!"

De watering the vacuum line is "Merely Engineering(tm)!" (aka
"just money")

I can see a method of a vacuum pump hooked to a tank, which gets
pumped out, the line to the pump closed, then the line to the sample
chamber open. But as you said, you'll still be pumping water out of
solution, thus changing the concentration. Of course, you could seal
the sample so that it gets the vacuum, and not the entire container.

"Why don't you try that and write it up?" B-)

-
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

================================================= =======

With that setup you can also fill the wood with plastic resin.
https://www.instructables.com/id/Res...bilizing-Wood/

I boil wood in paraffin wax to weatherproof it for outdoor use, like pulley
sheaves and antenna insulators. The above-boiling wax makes the water
sizzle
out. The urethane wax in toilet bowl rings is less brittle at low
temperatures.

I've been using a small Gast rotary vane pump on my vacuum oven if there
was
much water to remove, and running it open afterwards to dry it. Has anyone
had a problem doing this?

In a lab setup where water in a vacuum was involed, we used a flask of
silica gel between the chamber and the pump to dry the exhasted air
ahead of the pump.

================================================== ===

Then you need to desiccate or throw away the silica gel.

In a lab setup I wasn't paying for electricity or water+sewer to run a
faucet aspirator. At home I try to accomplish these hobby tasks with a
limited amount of recycled lab gear and alternate energy such as wood heat
in winter and solar heat in summer.

On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 19:12:19 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


With that setup you can also fill the wood with plastic resin.
https://www.instructables.com/id/Res...bilizing-Wood/

I boil wood in paraffin wax to weatherproof it for outdoor use, like pulley
sheaves and antenna insulators. The above-boiling wax makes the water sizzle
out. The urethane wax in toilet bowl rings is less brittle at low
temperatures.

I've been using a small Gast rotary vane pump on my vacuum oven if there was
much water to remove, and running it open afterwards to dry it. Has anyone
had a problem doing this?

Ah, you might make a good beekeeper Recently took up this rather
eccentric hobby and wish I could afford to set up a wax dipping tank
large enough for assembled hive boxes. Hopefully will eventually
have a shallow pan that can do bottom boards since they rot out
first. Today most are using paraffin and microcrystalline wax 50/50.
Apparently at one time 2 parts paraffin to one part gum rosin was
standard. This guy, http://bushfarms.com/beesdipping.htm uses
natural beeswax instead of paraffin.

Wonder if you could combine heat and vacuum to get the wax even
deeper into the wood? Not aware of anyone doing this.

As to resin stabilized wood, go to a blade show and there will be
venders selling knife scales in every wood you can imagine. As well
as weird stuff like pine cones and corn cobs.
--
William

On Sat, 15 Aug 2020 07:37:28 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Gerry" wrote in message ...

On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 19:12:19 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
. ..

Christopher Tidy on Fri, 14 Aug 2020
09:55:58 -0700 (PDT) typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
I might also be tempted to run the same experiment with some vacuum,
as I suspect the trapped air hinders the absorption, but I don't want to
vaporise the ink and fill my vacuum pump with water...

"But, but, but Science!"

De watering the vacuum line is "Merely Engineering(tm)!" (aka
"just money")

I can see a method of a vacuum pump hooked to a tank, which gets
pumped out, the line to the pump closed, then the line to the sample
chamber open. But as you said, you'll still be pumping water out of
solution, thus changing the concentration. Of course, you could seal
the sample so that it gets the vacuum, and not the entire container.

"Why don't you try that and write it up?" B-)

-
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

================================================ ========

With that setup you can also fill the wood with plastic resin.
https://www.instructables.com/id/Res...bilizing-Wood/

I boil wood in paraffin wax to weatherproof it for outdoor use, like pulley
sheaves and antenna insulators. The above-boiling wax makes the water
sizzle
out. The urethane wax in toilet bowl rings is less brittle at low
temperatures.

I've been using a small Gast rotary vane pump on my vacuum oven if there
was
much water to remove, and running it open afterwards to dry it. Has anyone
had a problem doing this?

In a lab setup where water in a vacuum was involed, we used a flask of
silica gel between the chamber and the pump to dry the exhasted air
ahead of the pump.

================================================= ====

Then you need to desiccate or throw away the silica gel.

In a lab setup I wasn't paying for electricity or water+sewer to run a
faucet aspirator. At home I try to accomplish these hobby tasks with a
limited amount of recycled lab gear and alternate energy such as wood heat
in winter and solar heat in summer.
dry the silica gel in an oven.

"William Bagwell" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 14 Aug 2020 19:12:19 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

......

Wonder if you could combine heat and vacuum to get the wax even
deeper into the wood? Not aware of anyone doing this.

--
William

================================

Dry heat and vacuum before adding the wax should work, but I don't want wax
vapor condensing and clogging the tubing and pump.

The molten wax can be heated well above 212F, so the submerged wood should
be sterile before the wax seal its ends. I think the large quantity of steam
that escapes removes most of the air as well. I leave the wood submerged
until the bubbling nearly stops, then cool the pot slowly.

On Sun, 16 Aug 2020 14:03:08 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

Dry heat and vacuum before adding the wax should work, but I don't want wax
vapor condensing and clogging the tubing and pump.

Yes should have thought of that. pyotr filipivich sums it up nicely
up thread a bit. Do not need to start any more boondoggles. Not even
sure our vacuum pump still works, has not been used in at least 27
years. If it does have a much better use for it in the planning
stages.

The molten wax can be heated well above 212F, so the submerged wood should
be sterile before the wax seal its ends. I think the large quantity of steam
that escapes removes most of the air as well. I leave the wood submerged
until the bubbling nearly stops, then cool the pot slowly.

Though of a way to dip just the corners of assembled hive bodies
last night. A "V" shaped trough. End grain where they are finger
jointed together is where most rot starts so it should work. And
take less than $50 verses $500+ to fill it with wax.
--
William