I have one of those cheap aluminum flag poles because I don't want to spend $1200 on a high dollar one. It uses 2" pipe sections and works pretty well, but it will bend in high winds. I used black iron pipe inside of it for several years and it worked pretty well, but in our last storm with 70-80mph winds, it did bend and the black pipe broke at the junction (2 10ft sticks). I'm looking for a replacement for the internal pipe that would be stronger. Local metal place recommended sch40 1-1/4" in a 20ft stick but I was thinking maybe some sort of roll bar tubing or similar. I'm not that familiar with the terminology or naming convention of the different metals. I can do up to 1-3/4" inside the aluminum sections. What would be a good choice for this?

On 07/15/2020 01:01 PM, wrote:
I have one of those cheap aluminum flag poles because I don't want
to spend $1200 on a high dollar one. It uses 2" pipe sections and
works pretty well, but it will bend in high winds. I used black
iron pipe inside of it for several years and it worked pretty well,
but in our last storm with 70-80mph winds, it did bend and the black
pipe broke at the junction (2 10ft sticks). I'm looking for a
replacement for the internal pipe that would be stronger. Local
metal place recommended sch40 1-1/4" in a 20ft stick but I was
thinking maybe some sort of roll bar tubing or similar. I'm not that
familiar with the terminology or naming convention of the different
metals. I can do up to 1-3/4" inside the aluminum sections. What
would be a good choice for this?

Do any of the landowners in your community have water wells?

My flagpole is one 21' length of 1" galvanized steel well pipe. Seems to
be the standard length, our well has always had 21 foot sections,
replaced when they corrode and get pinholes with new 21 foot sections.

The well company we use will either haul the old pipe off, or leave it.
I'd give you one of mine, but looks like you might be one time zone too
far away.

On Wed, 15 Jul 2020 13:01:32 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

I have one of those cheap aluminum flag poles because I don't want to spend $1200 on a high dollar one. It uses 2" pipe sections and works pretty well, but it will bend in high winds. I used black iron pipe inside of it for several years and it worked pretty well, but in our last storm with 70-80mph winds, it did bend and the black pipe broke at the junction (2 10ft sticks). I'm looking for a replacement for the internal pipe that would be stronger. Local metal place recommended sch40 1-1/4" in a 20ft stick but I was thinking maybe some sort of roll bar tubing or similar. I'm not that familiar with the terminology or naming convention of the different metals. I can do up to 1-3/4" inside the aluminum sections. What would be a good choice for this?
1 1/2 inch sched 80 pipe or 1 1/4 inch square tube with 1/4 inch wall
thickness might fit (with rounded corners it is 1 7/8" across the
diaganal) and good luck bending it!!

I appreciate that. I'll check around, that may work.

I like that idea, but that also sounds HEAVY! lol Hopefully I can lift it in place! ;-)

On Wed, 15 Jul 2020 20:54:39 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

I like that idea, but that also sounds HEAVY! lol Hopefully I can lift it in place! ;-)
You SAID you wanted something that would not bend in the wind - - - -

On 7/15/2020 1:01 PM, wrote:
I have one of those cheap aluminum flag poles because I don't want to spend $1200 on a high dollar one. It uses 2" pipe sections and works pretty well, but it will bend in high winds. I used black iron pipe inside of it for several years and it worked pretty well, but in our last storm with 70-80mph winds, it did bend and the black pipe broke at the junction (2 10ft sticks). I'm looking for a replacement for the internal pipe that would be stronger. Local metal place recommended sch40 1-1/4" in a 20ft stick but I was thinking maybe some sort of roll bar tubing or similar. I'm not that familiar with the terminology or naming convention of the different metals. I can do up to 1-3/4" inside the aluminum sections. What would be a good choice for this?



4130 Chromolly tube. Pretty sure it comes in standard 20' sections.

wrote in message
...

I like that idea, but that also sounds HEAVY! lol Hopefully I can lift it
in place! ;-)
==========================================

https://www.homedepot.com/p/0-91-in-...-190/202591987

Fence suppliers can get similar tubing in several diameters and wall
thicknesses. My 50' TV antenna mast is made of 1-5/16" fence top rail at 1/4
the cost of Radio Shack mast.

Great ideas. I'm going to do some checking around today and see what I can find. I like the option of the Chromolly tube.

wrote in message
...

Great ideas. I'm going to do some checking around today and see what I can
find. I like the option of the Chromolly tube.

=====================

Sold by the inch:
https://secure.chassisshop.com/partlist/5408/

I found a local shop that has the 4130 tube. Kinda pricey stuff, but to keep costs reasonable what wall thickness do you think would do the job? 1.5" with 3/8" wall is about $18/ft. I don't think I would need that much wall thickness but I really have no idea?

wrote in message
...

I found a local shop that has the 4130 tube. Kinda pricey stuff, but to
keep costs reasonable what wall thickness do you think would do the job?
1.5" with 3/8" wall is about $18/ft. I don't think I would need that much
wall thickness but I really have no idea?

===============================

I'm not a professional engineer so I can't design for you, and if I was one
I wouldn't work for free.

You can search for sites like these:
https://www.flagandbanner.com/flag_b..._flagpoles.asp

https://www.engineeringexpress.com/calculators19/

wrote:
I found a local shop that has the 4130 tube. Kinda pricey stuff, but
to keep costs reasonable what wall thickness do you think would do
the job? 1.5" with 3/8" wall is about $18/ft. I don't think I would
need that much wall thickness but I really have no idea?

That is a lot thicker than needed. The 20' one I have is 3" with 1/8"
thick aluminum.

--
Steve W.

On Monday, July 20, 2020 at 3:04:56 PM UTC-5, Steve W. wrote:

That is a lot thicker than needed. The 20' one I have is 3" with 1/8"
thick aluminum.

--
Steve W.

Good to know. I priced 1-3/4" .120 wall 4130 and it came to about $325! I think i'm going to go back to 1-1/4" sch 40 inside the aluminum. I think I only had 1" previously after seeing how Sch40 is measured from ID, not OD. I would like 1-1/2", but it's just a tad too big to fit inside the 2" aluminum at the joint. So I think stepping up 1 size, and making it 1 full 20' piece instead of 2 with a joint,,,,,, hopefully it will be enough.

wrote in message
...

On Monday, July 20, 2020 at 3:04:56 PM UTC-5, Steve W. wrote:

That is a lot thicker than needed. The 20' one I have is 3" with 1/8"
thick aluminum.

--
Steve W.

Good to know. I priced 1-3/4" .120 wall 4130 and it came to about $325!
I think i'm going to go back to 1-1/4" sch 40 inside the aluminum. I think
I only had 1" previously after seeing how Sch40 is measured from ID, not OD.
I would like 1-1/2", but it's just a tad too big to fit inside the 2"
aluminum at the joint. So I think stepping up 1 size, and making it 1 full
20' piece instead of 2 with a joint,,,,,, hopefully it will be enough.

==============================

Pipe standards originated back when pipe was made from wrought iron which is
weaker than steel. The ID of modern steel pipe is approximately the same as
the old Extra-Strong standard.

http://machineryequipmentonline.com/...ght-iron-pipe/

http://www.iceweb.com.au/Tubings/Gla...ad_History.pdf

Chain link fence posts have the same OD as pipe, though thinner walls and
different size designations in fractions close to the actual OD. Electrical
conduit has the same ID as pipe and a smooth interior without the weld seam,
thus EMT and fence posts of the same nominal pipe size telescope in some
combinations.

On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 at 4:54:29 AM UTC-5, Jim Wilkins wrote:
wrote in message
==============================

Pipe standards originated back when pipe was made from wrought iron which is
weaker than steel. The ID of modern steel pipe is approximately the same as
the old Extra-Strong standard.

http://machineryequipmentonline.com/...ght-iron-pipe/

http://www.iceweb.com.au/Tubings/Gla...ad_History.pdf

Chain link fence posts have the same OD as pipe, though thinner walls and
different size designations in fractions close to the actual OD. Electrical
conduit has the same ID as pipe and a smooth interior without the weld seam,
thus EMT and fence posts of the same nominal pipe size telescope in some
combinations.

I agree the newer steel with a thinner wall is likely stronger, but it's also way more expensive. I priced 1-3/4" 4130 with .120 wall in a 20' stick and it was $325. I priced 1-1/4" Sch 40, which is 1.68" OD and is $32 for the same 20' stick. I originally had 1" black pipe, so i'll be increasing by 1/4" OD and 1 solid piece instead of 2 jointed 10' pieces. The previous bend/break happened at the joint where the threads were cut. Going a size larger should increase strength, and 1 solid instead of 2 should also help a fair bit. If the 4130 was $100 instead of $300, I would go that route, but I just can't justify that much cost.

On Tue, 21 Jul 2020 07:29:48 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Tuesday, July 21, 2020 at 4:54:29 AM UTC-5, Jim Wilkins wrote:
wrote in message
==============================

Pipe standards originated back when pipe was made from wrought iron which is
weaker than steel. The ID of modern steel pipe is approximately the same as
the old Extra-Strong standard.

http://machineryequipmentonline.com/...ght-iron-pipe/

http://www.iceweb.com.au/Tubings/Gla...ad_History.pdf

Chain link fence posts have the same OD as pipe, though thinner walls and
different size designations in fractions close to the actual OD. Electrical
conduit has the same ID as pipe and a smooth interior without the weld seam,
thus EMT and fence posts of the same nominal pipe size telescope in some
combinations.

I agree the newer steel with a thinner wall is likely stronger, but it's also way more expensive. I priced 1-3/4" 4130 with .120 wall in a 20' stick and it was $325. I priced 1-1/4" Sch 40, which is 1.68" OD and is $32 for the same 20' stick. I originally had 1" black pipe, so i'll be increasing by 1/4" OD and 1 solid piece instead of 2 jointed 10' pieces. The previous bend/break happened at the joint where the threads were cut. Going a size larger should increase strength, and 1 solid instead of 2 should also help a fair bit. If the 4130 was $100 instead of $300, I would go that route, but I just can't justify that much cost.

Check with some of the local pipe shops and scrap yards. My flag pole
is a 20' piece of 3" steel pipe that came out of the local oil fields.

Its been up for nearly 30 yrs in 70+ mph winds and doesnt even flinch.
(Grin)
__

"Journalists are extremely rare and shouldn’t be harmed, but propagandists are everywhere and should be hunted for sport"

Yeah..with no bag limit.




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On Wednesday, July 15, 2020 at 4:01:35 PM UTC-4, wrote:
I have one of those cheap aluminum flag poles because I don't want to spend $1200 on a high dollar one. It uses 2" pipe sections and works pretty well, but it will bend in high winds. I used black iron pipe inside of it for several years and it worked pretty well, but in our last storm with 70-80mph winds, it did bend and the black pipe broke at the junction (2 10ft sticks). I'm looking for a replacement for the internal pipe that would be stronger. Local metal place recommended sch40 1-1/4" in a 20ft stick but I was thinking maybe some sort of roll bar tubing or similar. I'm not that familiar with the terminology or naming convention of the different metals. I can do up to 1-3/4" inside the aluminum sections. What would be a good choice for this?

Not exactly what you asked, but the maximum bending force is at the base. So you could probably get by with a pipe inside the bottom 15 feet.

Dan

On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 12:59:52 PM UTC-5, Gunner Asch wrote:

Check with some of the local pipe shops and scrap yards. My flag pole
is a 20' piece of 3" steel pipe that came out of the local oil fields.

Its been up for nearly 30 yrs in 70+ mph winds and doesnt even flinch.
(Grin)
__


That sounds like a pretty good idea. If this sch40 1-1/4 doesn't hold up, i'll likely do something like that with the larger pipe.

On Thursday, July 30, 2020 at 1:16:35 PM UTC-5, wrote:

Not exactly what you asked, but the maximum bending force is at the base. So you could probably get by with a pipe inside the bottom 15 feet.

Dan

I completely agree with this. The break was at the top of the first 10ft section, so since I can get sch40 in 10 or 20ft lengths, I just went with a 20ft section in the 1-1/4 size instead of 1" as well as eliminated any joints. That should fare pretty well for the next several years. If it fails, I may at that point upgrade to a larger diameter pipe and re-do my concrete hole in the ground.

On Thu, 30 Jul 2020 11:46:40 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Wednesday, July 29, 2020 at 12:59:52 PM UTC-5, Gunner Asch wrote:

Check with some of the local pipe shops and scrap yards. My flag pole
is a 20' piece of 3" steel pipe that came out of the local oil fields.

Its been up for nearly 30 yrs in 70+ mph winds and doesnt even flinch.
(Grin)
__


That sounds like a pretty good idea. If this sch40 1-1/4 doesn't hold up, i'll likely do something like that with the larger pipe.

I took (2) pieces of 4" pipe..about 5' long and burned a matching 3/4"
holes through them, 2" from the top and another one 14" below it. I
then used a post hole digger and went down 30 or so inches and
concreted in the (2) pipes 30" deep and 3" apart. with a bit of 2x4
between them and let cure. When it was cured..I simply took a piece of
3/4" all thread through the top holes..and a matching hole in flag
pole base and 2 of us lifted the 3" pipe vertical..and when
up..slipped another piece of 3/4" all thread through the bottom
holes..added nuts and lock washers and voila.. flag pole that is
tough, yet easy to service. I added a pulley at the top of the pole
(along with a welded on cap)..a weather vane I found at a yard sale
and 3/16" sailboat rope with snap fittings and welded on a home made
cleat to tie it down to near the bottom.

So I can fly my typical 3x5 US flag..a Gadsden Flag and for many
years..a POW/MIA flag below them.
Ive replaced the hoisting rope 2x, the flags many times in 30 yrs.
Total cost was about $15 for materials and rope and another $15 for a
couple quarts of Rustoleum Silver paint, to keep the pole from
rusting. Oh..and a bag and a half of quick crete when I concreted the
two base pipes into the ground...Call it $60 total, based on todays
prices. I got the pipe for free.

Took maybe 3 hours to cut the pipes with a torch, cut the holes...dig
the hole..concrete in the two 5' pipes, weld on the pulley and cleat
and stand it up. Not counted is the cokes, beer and bbq that we had on
a nice Sunday. A fun project with wives and friends.

Sched 40... 1 1/4" pipe..isnt strong enough to keep from bending in
high winds if 20' long. 15' might be..maybe. Remember...you have sails
up when the flags are flying..and in a wind..that applys a LOT of
force over time. But..do as you chose.

Gunner
__

"Journalists are extremely rare and shouldn’t be harmed, but propagandists are everywhere and should be hunted for sport"

Yeah..with no bag limit.




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On Friday, July 31, 2020 at 5:43:26 AM UTC-5, Gunner Asch wrote:
I took (2) pieces of 4" pipe..about 5' long and burned a matching 3/4"
holes through them, 2" from the top and another one 14" below it. I
then used a post hole digger and went down 30 or so inches and
concreted in the (2) pipes 30" deep and 3" apart. with a bit of 2x4
between them and let cure. When it was cured..I simply took a piece of
3/4" all thread through the top holes..and a matching hole in flag
pole base and 2 of us lifted the 3" pipe vertical..and when
up..slipped another piece of 3/4" all thread through the bottom
holes..added nuts and lock washers and voila.. flag pole that is
tough, yet easy to service. I added a pulley at the top of the pole
(along with a welded on cap)..a weather vane I found at a yard sale
and 3/16" sailboat rope with snap fittings and welded on a home made
cleat to tie it down to near the bottom.


Gunner

I really like your idea with the two pipes in the ground so you can pivot the main pole down. Mine is a piece of concreted in PVC in the ground and I lift the pole and drop it down in that PVC. It works fine for the weight of the aluminum pole, but is a bit of a challenge with the two pipes.

Just to be clear, my main pole is 2" aluminum and does fine until winds are up around 45-50 with a flag, then it's bending pretty good and will buckle.. The 1-1/4" sch40 is now inside the aluminum just to add strength. (1-1/4" sch40 is the ID, so the OD is about 1-3/4 and fits pretty snug inside the 2" aluminum sections) I previously had 1" sch40, with a joint mid way up, so this is 1/4" larger, and now a single piece with no joints. So in theory, it definitely increased strength from what I had but I'm sure it's still not the greatest.

In the meantime, I will be looking for some pipe like you used. If this doesn't hold up, i'll have a piece ready to use to make it stronger. I definitely do like your ideal though.

On Fri, 31 Jul 2020 06:00:51 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, July 31, 2020 at 5:43:26 AM UTC-5, Gunner Asch wrote:
I took (2) pieces of 4" pipe..about 5' long and burned a matching 3/4"
holes through them, 2" from the top and another one 14" below it. I
then used a post hole digger and went down 30 or so inches and
concreted in the (2) pipes 30" deep and 3" apart. with a bit of 2x4
between them and let cure. When it was cured..I simply took a piece of
3/4" all thread through the top holes..and a matching hole in flag
pole base and 2 of us lifted the 3" pipe vertical..and when
up..slipped another piece of 3/4" all thread through the bottom
holes..added nuts and lock washers and voila.. flag pole that is
tough, yet easy to service. I added a pulley at the top of the pole
(along with a welded on cap)..a weather vane I found at a yard sale
and 3/16" sailboat rope with snap fittings and welded on a home made
cleat to tie it down to near the bottom.


Gunner

I really like your idea with the two pipes in the ground so you can pivot the main pole down. Mine is a piece of concreted in PVC in the ground and I lift the pole and drop it down in that PVC. It works fine for the weight of the aluminum pole, but is a bit of a challenge with the two pipes.

Just to be clear, my main pole is 2" aluminum and does fine until winds are up around 45-50 with a flag, then it's bending pretty good and will buckle. The 1-1/4" sch40 is now inside the aluminum just to add strength. (1-1/4" sch40 is the ID, so the OD is about 1-3/4 and fits pretty snug inside the 2" aluminum sections) I previously had 1" sch40, with a joint mid way up, so this is 1/4" larger, and now a single piece with no joints. So in theory, it definitely increased strength from what I had but I'm sure it's still not the greatest.

In the meantime, I will be looking for some pipe like you used. If this doesn't hold up, i'll have a piece ready to use to make it stronger. I definitely do like your ideal though.

If you ever look at true aluminum flag poles..like at schools and
other facilities..you will find that most of them are not actually
round..but have stiffeners on the outside (flats and cast stiffeners
or weldments) ...or are round with stiffeners cast inside them. Its
nearly impossible for us to cast a 20' flag pole (Grin)...but as
noted..there are ways we can do it the old fashioned way and not have
one come un****ed in high winds.

Im lazy..so I dont want to have to rebuild something every couple
years...so I build it to last the first time (sigh..definately the
second time).

Best of luck and let us know how it works for you.

Gunner


__

"Journalists are extremely rare and shouldn’t be harmed, but propagandists are everywhere and should be hunted for sport"

Yeah..with no bag limit.




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...
Gunner

I really like your idea with the two pipes in the ground so you can pivot
the main pole down. Mine is a piece of concreted in PVC in the ground and I
lift the pole and drop it down in that PVC. It works fine for the weight of
the aluminum pole, but is a bit of a challenge with the two pipes.

Just to be clear, my main pole is 2" aluminum and does fine until winds are
up around 45-50 with a flag, then it's bending pretty good and will buckle.
The 1-1/4" sch40 is now inside the aluminum just to add strength. (1-1/4"
sch40 is the ID, so the OD is about 1-3/4 and fits pretty snug inside the 2"
aluminum sections) I previously had 1" sch40, with a joint mid way up, so
this is 1/4" larger, and now a single piece with no joints. So in theory,
it definitely increased strength from what I had but I'm sure it's still not
the greatest.

In the meantime, I will be looking for some pipe like you used. If this
doesn't hold up, i'll have a piece ready to use to make it stronger. I
definitely do like your ideal though.

=================
https://www.pinterest.ca/BestDIYplan...lt-tower-plan/

On Friday, July 31, 2020 at 5:04:00 PM UTC-5, Jim Wilkins wrote:
=================
https://www.pinterest.ca/BestDIYplan...lt-tower-plan/

Great ideas in there, thank you.