On Wednesday, April 29, 2020 at 12:00:51 PM UTC-4, Clare wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:21:18 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 05:20:06 -0700 (PDT)
wrote:

Huge snip
Hi Clare, others. I tried the smell test the other day.
It's got more of an oily smell than the gas I smell when I leave the choke
on. TBH the black plugs are not that much of a problem. I clean 'em
in the spring and maybe another time during the summer. I did check the
float level and that looked spot on.
I do love this old tractor. I had the head rebuilt a few years ago.
With any luck she'll out live me. :^)

Found a nice service manual here (~55mb):

http://www.ntractorclub.com/manuals/...e%20Manual.pdf

===
Per that manual you should have a "Delco-Remy Model
No. 1111722 with crankshaft rotation advance of 26 and 24 degrees
respectively, both models are fully automatic..

The centrifugal advance mechanism is in-
corporated in the distributor to automatically
vary the timing of the spark with respect to
the position of the piston in the cylinder. At
high speeds, the spark must occur at the plug
earlier in the compression stroke In order for
the fuel mixture to deliver full power.
The advance mechanism consists of an ad-
vance cam, breaker cam, a pair of ' advance
weights, springs and a weight base that is In-
tegral with the distributor shaft.

At low speeds, the advance weights are held in to-
ward the center by the spring tension. As
the speed of the distributor shaft increases,
the centrifugal force overcomes the spring
tension and the weights move outward and the
toggles on the weights engage the advance
cam. This rotates the advance cam and break-
er cam which in turn allows the breaker cam
to open and close the contact points earlier,
thus advancing the spark...
===

Maybe help you out some ;-)
I really suspect it is oil.
Interesting to know what oil is being run and when it was last
changed. Like I noted before I'd be putting some MMO in the oil and
running it for a few hours, then drain the oil and refill with 15w40
all fleet (like rotella T) or 20W50 Castrol GTX or similar and see
what happens. Quite possible the valve guide seals are poor but he
DID say he had the head rebuilt recently so more likely the rings. The
rings tend to sludge up and stick - and the MMO (Marvel Mystery Oil)
or Shaler Rislone can loosen the rings. I used to use Rislone years
back but MMO is a lot less harsh and just as effective.

I changed the oil and filter last year... I filled it with cheap
10W-30. OK when I change the oil again... a few years, I'll try
some of your magic oil. (Well maybe... maybe it's better
to leave sleeping dogs lie?)

Thanks for all the nice 'tractor talk'. My neighbor down the road
had a Ferggie too, but he passed away few years ago and everyone else
around here has newer fancier tractors.

George H.

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:16:37 -0700 (PDT)
wrote:

snip
Thanks! I've got that manual.. but it cost me ~$20.

Oh bummer... though the electronic one can be searched (watch for
spelling errors). I've found that a big help at times when looking for
some things...

So these cams and springs are down inside the distro somewhere.
(maybe I'll give it a look see... now I've had it apart once. :^)

If you really weren't seeing the timing advance any when you had a
timing light on it while revved up... You should sort that out

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

"Leon Fisk" wrote in message ...

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 05:20:06 -0700 (PDT)
wrote:

Huge snip
Hi Clare, others. I tried the smell test the other day.
It's got more of an oily smell than the gas I smell when I leave the choke
on. TBH the black plugs are not that much of a problem. I clean 'em
in the spring and maybe another time during the summer. I did check the
float level and that looked spot on.
I do love this old tractor. I had the head rebuilt a few years ago.
With any luck she'll out live me. :^)

Found a nice service manual here (~55mb):

http://www.ntractorclub.com/manuals/...e%20Manual.pdf

===
Per that manual you should have a "Delco-Remy Model
No. 1111722 with crankshaft rotation advance of 26 and 24 degrees
respectively, both models are fully automatic..

The centrifugal advance mechanism is in-
corporated in the distributor to automatically
vary the timing of the spark with respect to
the position of the piston in the cylinder. At
high speeds, the spark must occur at the plug
earlier in the compression stroke In order for
the fuel mixture to deliver full power.
The advance mechanism consists of an ad-
vance cam, breaker cam, a pair of ' advance
weights, springs and a weight base that is In-
tegral with the distributor shaft.

At low speeds, the advance weights are held in to-
ward the center by the spring tension. As
the speed of the distributor shaft increases,
the centrifugal force overcomes the spring
tension and the weights move outward and the
toggles on the weights engage the advance
cam. This rotates the advance cam and break-
er cam which in turn allows the breaker cam
to open and close the contact points earlier,
thus advancing the spark...
===

Maybe help you out some ;-)

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

========================

The quick check is to try to rotate the breaker point plate to see if it
moves freely, and springs back. Maybe the springs broke, or it was
reassembled incorrectly?

Distributors are rather mysterious if you don't understand what an ignition
system needs and how they interact with the rest of the components to
provide it, which is why I described all of the basics. There is more,
magnetos, ballast resistors and the distributor-less "wasted spark" system,
and the different worlds of electronic and computerized ignitions.

I examined this closely at the NSU Zweirad (two-wheel) Museum:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daimler_Reitwagen
https://www.zweirad-museum.de/zweira...1885-1929.html

The ignition is a closed-end tube protruding from the combustion chamber
with a little flame playing on it to keep it red hot -- beneath the gas
tank. Pray for no leaks!

Bad things,
it has no (external) hydraulics, and the pto/ hydraulic pump share
the pto power... so you have to engage the pto to raise the 3-pt hitch.
The lift(3-pt hitch) only has raise and lower positions...
but I added this gizmo that does some feedback and allows for
intermediate heights.

The brakes* are kinda wimpy... but maybe this is typical of tractors?

===============

I was descending a steep hill when the brake band disintegrated into a trail
of little pieces behind me. Didn't need it, engine braking was enough. I
know I didn't crash and die because I get myself into situations I wouldn't
dream of.

My tractor hydraulics grew from the crankshaft stub shaft that held the
mower deck drive pulley. I made pulleys to fit it and a hydraulic pump I had
salvaged, and reworked an old 2-lever valve assembly by making a variable
pressure relief to drop it down from fixed 3000 to 800~1000 PSI. Once I
turned it up to 1600 PSI to muscle out of a snowbank and blew the front
tires. The oil intake screen is in a 2" pipe tee, with the drain at the
bottom. The lift cylinders are worn-out porta-power jacks with new seals.

Hydraulics can be fairly cheap if you don't have to match existing
components, or can rework the mounting and drive.
https://www.baileyhydraulics.com/CHI...I-CCW-Rotation

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:11:58 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Tuesday, April 28, 2020 at 6:12:57 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
I do love this old tractor. I had the head rebuilt a few years ago.
With any luck she'll out live me. :^)

George H.

=================================

Thanks for the TO20 recommendation. I used my machine shop to build a
hydraulic front end loader attachment for my 18HP garden tractor to clear
snow, for which it worked quite well, however the tractor isn't heavy or
strong enough to more than scratch at our rocky New England soil.

I'm looking at small Kubotas but would consider anything for which I can
still get parts that I can't make. For instance although I machined a new
steering sector gear and linkage for it I can't harden and temper such parts
very well in my wood stove.

Oh I'm not sure it's a recommendation. It's just what I stumbled upon.
And yes it's very nice that the local Massey-Ferguson dealer still has
parts for it. (And knowledgeable guys behind the counter.) Old tractors
are nice 'cause they use to let a model run for several years... and
there were lots of them made.

Bad things,
it has no (external) hydraulics, and the pto/ hydraulic pump share
the pto power... so you have to engage the pto to raise the 3-pt hitch.
The lift(3-pt hitch) only has raise and lower positions...
but I added this gizmo that does some feedback and allows for
intermediate heights.

The brakes* are kinda wimpy... but maybe this is typical of tractors?

It's got a six speed transmission. (I've never had it in 5th 'road'
gear.) Which I hear is preferred to the four speed Ford 9-N,
but I've never driven a 9-N so don't know.

George H.


*I only fixed the brakes a few years ago... who needs brakes?
My son wanted to drive the tractor for "take your tractor to school
day" But it was a rainy crappy day and didn't happen.

If you can find yourself a little MF35 or 135 you've got it made. 3
cyl Perkins deisel or gas.

On the 35 you get draft and position control, dual clutch (for Live
PTO) Dual range gear box, and the option of the 2.5 liter Perkins.
made until 1965

The 135 was made until 1975 and is a bit heavier - same transmission
and engine options. The 235 followed - much the same tractor with
different sheet metal. All very capable little tractors.

A 1954-58 Oliver 55 Super would also be a good option but parts
availability would not be as good. The 550was a nice tractor too -
from '58 to '75. A bonus of the 550 is power steering.
Just don't waste any time looking at a Cockshutt 540.

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:26:59 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Wednesday, April 29, 2020 at 12:00:51 PM UTC-4, Clare wrote:
On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:21:18 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 05:20:06 -0700 (PDT)
wrote:

Huge snip
Hi Clare, others. I tried the smell test the other day.
It's got more of an oily smell than the gas I smell when I leave the choke
on. TBH the black plugs are not that much of a problem. I clean 'em
in the spring and maybe another time during the summer. I did check the
float level and that looked spot on.
I do love this old tractor. I had the head rebuilt a few years ago.
With any luck she'll out live me. :^)

Found a nice service manual here (~55mb):

http://www.ntractorclub.com/manuals/...e%20Manual.pdf

===
Per that manual you should have a "Delco-Remy Model
No. 1111722 with crankshaft rotation advance of 26 and 24 degrees
respectively, both models are fully automatic..

The centrifugal advance mechanism is in-
corporated in the distributor to automatically
vary the timing of the spark with respect to
the position of the piston in the cylinder. At
high speeds, the spark must occur at the plug
earlier in the compression stroke In order for
the fuel mixture to deliver full power.
The advance mechanism consists of an ad-
vance cam, breaker cam, a pair of ' advance
weights, springs and a weight base that is In-
tegral with the distributor shaft.

At low speeds, the advance weights are held in to-
ward the center by the spring tension. As
the speed of the distributor shaft increases,
the centrifugal force overcomes the spring
tension and the weights move outward and the
toggles on the weights engage the advance
cam. This rotates the advance cam and break-
er cam which in turn allows the breaker cam
to open and close the contact points earlier,
thus advancing the spark...
===

Maybe help you out some ;-)
I really suspect it is oil.
Interesting to know what oil is being run and when it was last
changed. Like I noted before I'd be putting some MMO in the oil and
running it for a few hours, then drain the oil and refill with 15w40
all fleet (like rotella T) or 20W50 Castrol GTX or similar and see
what happens. Quite possible the valve guide seals are poor but he
DID say he had the head rebuilt recently so more likely the rings. The
rings tend to sludge up and stick - and the MMO (Marvel Mystery Oil)
or Shaler Rislone can loosen the rings. I used to use Rislone years
back but MMO is a lot less harsh and just as effective.

I changed the oil and filter last year... I filled it with cheap
10W-30. OK when I change the oil again... a few years, I'll try
some of your magic oil. (Well maybe... maybe it's better
to leave sleeping dogs lie?)

Thanks for all the nice 'tractor talk'. My neighbor down the road
had a Ferggie too, but he passed away few years ago and everyone else
around here has newer fancier tractors.

George H.
Personally I wouldn't use 10W30 in that tractor, and with the little
use you give it I'd change it every spring. I've never had MMO cause a
problem in an engine - and I've used a lot of it over the last 50
years. I'd run Rotella T3 or T4 15W40 or Valvoline 15W40 all fleet
premium or E900. That engine wants the ZDDP levels up around 1000 or
more. You won't get that in any current 10W30 or any current
"automotive" oil less than 20W50. The crancase ventilation is sub-par
so moisture build-up and sludging can be an issue if you don't change
it often and only use it sporadically for short jobs.

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 13:02:19 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Wed, 29 Apr 2020 09:16:37 -0700 (PDT)
wrote:

snip
Thanks! I've got that manual.. but it cost me ~$20.

Oh bummer... though the electronic one can be searched (watch for
spelling errors). I've found that a big help at times when looking for
some things...

So these cams and springs are down inside the distro somewhere.
(maybe I'll give it a look see... now I've had it apart once. :^)

If you really weren't seeing the timing advance any when you had a
timing light on it while revved up... You should sort that out
I think it hits max advance at about 2000 RPM -

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 23:16:42 +0100, David Billington
wrote:

On 26/04/2020 19:23, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 22, 2020 at 11:12:39 AM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"David Billington" wrote in message ...


When the points open the light goes out at least if you have the test
lamp wired between the dizzy and the coil low tension side to show when
the points are conducting. Your post about the Aussie guy is correct
regarding the way the points operate, I've used static timing many times
for initial set-up on cars.

===================================

If the test lamp is in series between the coil and breaker points it will go
out when the points open and interrupt the coil current, which is when the
spark jumps.

However I connected the lamp across (in parallel with) the points so the
light turns on when they open, and I didn't need to disconnect the coil wire
or disturb the points or distributor position by reconnecting it after
properly setting them.

The coil is a large inductor which converts the energy of current flowing
through it into a magnetic field. When the strength of this field increases
or decreases it acts like a generator that opposes the change in current,
causing the current to appear to have inertia. Current increases fairly
slowly when 12V is applied across the coil by closing the points, and it
tries very hard to continue flowing when the points open to break it.

in the old low-tension (low-voltage) ignition system the points were inside
the combustion chamber. When the points opened the current would continue
between them as a spark, like arc welding, which fired the cylinder.
https://www.gasenginemagazine.com/ga...n-zmgz14jjzbea
I've burned through too much of my daily internet ration looking for an
image of the early Daimler igniter which IIRC really was pointed, thus the
term.

Separating the switching and spark gap functions made both more reliable.
The high tension system you have uses a coil with two windings, a
transformer.

The low voltage or primary winding is matched to the battery voltage and
current, and the high voltage or secondary winding of many more turns of
finer wire is optimized to create a high voltage, low current spark across
the spark plug. Otherwise it operates like the simpler low tension system
whose concept may be easier to understand.

When the points close the current and magnetic field build up during the
"dwell" time, which is part of the distributor shaft cam profile. The grease
in the ignition kit goes on this cam. When the points open the field tries
to keep the current flowing through both windings, and succeeds through the
spark plug gap, where the arc current rapidly depletes the magnetic field's
stored energy. The condenser (mostly) absorbs the current that would have
sparked across and eroded the points.

Then the condenser returns its stored electric charge to the coil, and along
with other inherently capacitive elements of the system causes the coil
voltage and current to oscillate and create radio and TV interference. The
cure is energy-absorbing resistance built into spark plugs with an R in
their designation.

If the gas vapor all ignited instantly it could be fired at piston Top Dead
Center, but since it doesn't (and shouldn't) the spark occurs before TDC to
give the flame time to spread. The timing mark is when/where the plug should
fire at idle speed. As the engine speeds up the centrifugal advance
mechanism rotates the breaker point mounting plate to make the spark occur
about the same length of time before TDC, so a strobe timing light shows the
marks appearing to move on the flywheel.

If the distributor has a vacuum advance its purpose is to advance the spark
further when the engine is at speed but lightly loaded, just cruising down
the highway. This improves fuel economy. Modern engines achieve the same
effect by advancing ignition timing until they sense the loud onset of
preignition ( knock), then backing it off a bit.
https://shop.advanceautoparts.com/r/...a-knock-sensor

When I entered the automotive electronics business in 1973 the above had
until recently been all the electricity an automotive engineer had to know,
since they bought radios from elsewhere. The new engineers Detroit quickly
hired weren't familiar with the many non-theoretical aspects of electrical
engineering such as component tolerance and corrosion of exposed contacts
and the rushed designs of 1974 plainly showed it, though they learned fast.
Some of what they introduced was taken from chemical lab instruments or
military aircraft, but those were much too complex and expensive to use
as-is. I had to learn fast myself in order to build the factory test
stations for the new electronics they were introducing like ABS.
http://www.safebraking.com/before-ab...brake-systems/

Fortunately I had studied material science, combustion chemistry,
thermocouples, hot wire mass air flow sensors etc in college.
Wow! OK more than I can digest. But thanks.
I did finally understand how my distributor works.
So thanks for that too. In the end I just
put it back together. Set the rotor at ~ the right place.
(I took a picture), checked for spark. A yup. And advanced the
dist. til it started. The timing light worked and the
'old girl' started at 30 deg. I set it for the recommended
7-8 deg. And then cranked up the engine rpm. I didn't see any
advancement of the timing. She seemed to run OK between
30 and 7 deg and I set it for 15. (?)

So let me ask a related question. The plugs are always
getting fouled (black fried gunk) on this tractor and
I clean 'em with kerosene. Could I maybe fix that some
with better timing? Though it does other things this
tractor spends most of it's life dragging a mower deck around
the 'estate' (The mower deck is called an estate groomer in the
manual. :^) Sorta medium rpm 2k, 1st or 2nd gear (depending on grass)
the grass is a heavy load on the pto/engine.

George H.
(did you guys do anything actively to reduce the political
crap on this site/net? or was it natural?)

Ive been out of town a lot and havent been around to attract the scum
and turds.
And Ive made a concious effort to remove this group from their mass
posts



If it's like the Lucas distributors I'm familiar with then the advance
unit can seize on the central spindle normally through lack of oiling
the centre shaft. Usually easy to dismantle, clean out any congealed
lubricant, oil and re-assemble and you should have functional advance.
__

"Journalists are extremely rare and shouldn’t be harmed, but propagandists are everywhere and should be hunted for sport"

Yeah..with no bag limit.




--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Wednesday, April 29, 2020 at 1:17:09 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Leon Fisk" wrote in message ...

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 05:20:06 -0700 (PDT)
wrote:

Huge snip
Hi Clare, others. I tried the smell test the other day.
It's got more of an oily smell than the gas I smell when I leave the choke
on. TBH the black plugs are not that much of a problem. I clean 'em
in the spring and maybe another time during the summer. I did check the
float level and that looked spot on.
I do love this old tractor. I had the head rebuilt a few years ago.
With any luck she'll out live me. :^)

Found a nice service manual here (~55mb):

http://www.ntractorclub.com/manuals/...e%20Manual.pdf

===
Per that manual you should have a "Delco-Remy Model
No. 1111722 with crankshaft rotation advance of 26 and 24 degrees
respectively, both models are fully automatic..

The centrifugal advance mechanism is in-
corporated in the distributor to automatically
vary the timing of the spark with respect to
the position of the piston in the cylinder. At
high speeds, the spark must occur at the plug
earlier in the compression stroke In order for
the fuel mixture to deliver full power.
The advance mechanism consists of an ad-
vance cam, breaker cam, a pair of ' advance
weights, springs and a weight base that is In-
tegral with the distributor shaft.

At low speeds, the advance weights are held in to-
ward the center by the spring tension. As
the speed of the distributor shaft increases,
the centrifugal force overcomes the spring
tension and the weights move outward and the
toggles on the weights engage the advance
cam. This rotates the advance cam and break-
er cam which in turn allows the breaker cam
to open and close the contact points earlier,
thus advancing the spark...
===

Maybe help you out some ;-)

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

========================

The quick check is to try to rotate the breaker point plate to see if it
moves freely, and springs back. Maybe the springs broke, or it was
reassembled incorrectly?

Hmm OK I don't know how the advancement works. A rainy day here and I'll
take the distributor apart and look inside. The rotor seems locked to the
shaft/ gear that goes into the engine block. But according to the
service manual I should be able to advance the rotor a little by hand
and have it spring back... The rotor doesn't move... except
with the engine.

More later.
George H.

Distributors are rather mysterious if you don't understand what an ignition
system needs and how they interact with the rest of the components to
provide it, which is why I described all of the basics. There is more,
magnetos, ballast resistors and the distributor-less "wasted spark" system,
and the different worlds of electronic and computerized ignitions.

I examined this closely at the NSU Zweirad (two-wheel) Museum:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daimler_Reitwagen
https://www.zweirad-museum.de/zweira...1885-1929.html

The ignition is a closed-end tube protruding from the combustion chamber
with a little flame playing on it to keep it red hot -- beneath the gas
tank. Pray for no leaks!

On 30/04/2020 17:11, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 29, 2020 at 1:17:09 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Leon Fisk" wrote in message ...

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 05:20:06 -0700 (PDT)
wrote:

Huge snip
Hi Clare, others. I tried the smell test the other day.
It's got more of an oily smell than the gas I smell when I leave the choke
on. TBH the black plugs are not that much of a problem. I clean 'em
in the spring and maybe another time during the summer. I did check the
float level and that looked spot on.
I do love this old tractor. I had the head rebuilt a few years ago.
With any luck she'll out live me. :^)
Found a nice service manual here (~55mb):

http://www.ntractorclub.com/manuals/...e%20Manual.pdf

===
Per that manual you should have a "Delco-Remy Model
No. 1111722 with crankshaft rotation advance of 26 and 24 degrees
respectively, both models are fully automatic..

The centrifugal advance mechanism is in-
corporated in the distributor to automatically
vary the timing of the spark with respect to
the position of the piston in the cylinder. At
high speeds, the spark must occur at the plug
earlier in the compression stroke In order for
the fuel mixture to deliver full power.
The advance mechanism consists of an ad-
vance cam, breaker cam, a pair of ' advance
weights, springs and a weight base that is In-
tegral with the distributor shaft.

At low speeds, the advance weights are held in to-
ward the center by the spring tension. As
the speed of the distributor shaft increases,
the centrifugal force overcomes the spring
tension and the weights move outward and the
toggles on the weights engage the advance
cam. This rotates the advance cam and break-
er cam which in turn allows the breaker cam
to open and close the contact points earlier,
thus advancing the spark...
===

Maybe help you out some ;-)

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

========================

The quick check is to try to rotate the breaker point plate to see if it
moves freely, and springs back. Maybe the springs broke, or it was
reassembled incorrectly?

Hmm OK I don't know how the advancement works. A rainy day here and I'll
take the distributor apart and look inside. The rotor seems locked to the
shaft/ gear that goes into the engine block. But according to the
service manual I should be able to advance the rotor a little by hand
and have it spring back... The rotor doesn't move... except
with the engine.

More later.
George H.

Likely the lubricant between the 2 part has congealed or it has rusted.
You'll need to dismantle it and clean it up, re-lube and put it back
together. I posted the same on the 28th but I guess you didn't see it.



Distributors are rather mysterious if you don't understand what an ignition
system needs and how they interact with the rest of the components to
provide it, which is why I described all of the basics. There is more,
magnetos, ballast resistors and the distributor-less "wasted spark" system,
and the different worlds of electronic and computerized ignitions.

I examined this closely at the NSU Zweirad (two-wheel) Museum:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daimler_Reitwagen
https://www.zweirad-museum.de/zweira...1885-1929.html

The ignition is a closed-end tube protruding from the combustion chamber
with a little flame playing on it to keep it red hot -- beneath the gas
tank. Pray for no leaks!

"David Billington" wrote in message ...

On 30/04/2020 17:11, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 29, 2020 at 1:17:09 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Leon Fisk" wrote in message ...

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 05:20:06 -0700 (PDT)
wrote:

Huge snip

The quick check is to try to rotate the breaker point plate to see if it
moves freely, and springs back. Maybe the springs broke, or it was
reassembled incorrectly?

Hmm OK I don't know how the advancement works. A rainy day here and I'll
take the distributor apart and look inside. The rotor seems locked to the
shaft/ gear that goes into the engine block. But according to the
service manual I should be able to advance the rotor a little by hand
and have it spring back... The rotor doesn't move... except
with the engine.

More later.
George H.

Likely the lubricant between the 2 part has congealed or it has rusted.
You'll need to dismantle it and clean it up, re-lube and put it back
together. I posted the same on the 28th but I guess you didn't see it.

=======================================

What he said. Set the engine to a definite position like #1 TDC and note
the rotor and distributor's position when its gear disengages. Take some pix
before you disassemble the advance unless the manual shows reassembly
clearly.

Hmm OK I don't know how the advancement works.

===========================

Advancement works in strange ways. I had to install a 2 line phone in a
senior NCO's office before they would submit my promotion to sergeant. The
standard joke is about having to get down on your knees, and I really did to
connect the wires.

On Thursday, April 30, 2020 at 12:35:01 PM UTC-4, David Billington wrote:
On 30/04/2020 17:11, wrote:
On Wednesday, April 29, 2020 at 1:17:09 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Leon Fisk" wrote in message ...

On Tue, 28 Apr 2020 05:20:06 -0700 (PDT)
wrote:

Huge snip
Hi Clare, others. I tried the smell test the other day.
It's got more of an oily smell than the gas I smell when I leave the choke
on. TBH the black plugs are not that much of a problem. I clean 'em
in the spring and maybe another time during the summer. I did check the
float level and that looked spot on.
I do love this old tractor. I had the head rebuilt a few years ago.
With any luck she'll out live me. :^)
Found a nice service manual here (~55mb):

http://www.ntractorclub.com/manuals/...e%20Manual.pdf

===
Per that manual you should have a "Delco-Remy Model
No. 1111722 with crankshaft rotation advance of 26 and 24 degrees
respectively, both models are fully automatic..

The centrifugal advance mechanism is in-
corporated in the distributor to automatically
vary the timing of the spark with respect to
the position of the piston in the cylinder. At
high speeds, the spark must occur at the plug
earlier in the compression stroke In order for
the fuel mixture to deliver full power.
The advance mechanism consists of an ad-
vance cam, breaker cam, a pair of ' advance
weights, springs and a weight base that is In-
tegral with the distributor shaft.

At low speeds, the advance weights are held in to-
ward the center by the spring tension. As
the speed of the distributor shaft increases,
the centrifugal force overcomes the spring
tension and the weights move outward and the
toggles on the weights engage the advance
cam. This rotates the advance cam and break-
er cam which in turn allows the breaker cam
to open and close the contact points earlier,
thus advancing the spark...
===

Maybe help you out some ;-)

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

========================

The quick check is to try to rotate the breaker point plate to see if it
moves freely, and springs back. Maybe the springs broke, or it was
reassembled incorrectly?

Hmm OK I don't know how the advancement works. A rainy day here and I'll
take the distributor apart and look inside. The rotor seems locked to the
shaft/ gear that goes into the engine block. But according to the
service manual I should be able to advance the rotor a little by hand
and have it spring back... The rotor doesn't move... except
with the engine.

More later.
George H.

Likely the lubricant between the 2 part has congealed or it has rusted.
You'll need to dismantle it and clean it up, re-lube and put it back
together. I posted the same on the 28th but I guess you didn't see it.


Right. Sorry. I read stuff. (Even in the service manual.) And it makes
no sense to me. I move on in the hope that it will make sense in the
future.

Anyway taking off the cover it was indeed rusted underneath.
I scrubbed with toothbrush and kerosene and it's now getting a
kerosene soak for the night.

George H.

Distributors are rather mysterious if you don't understand what an ignition
system needs and how they interact with the rest of the components to
provide it, which is why I described all of the basics. There is more,
magnetos, ballast resistors and the distributor-less "wasted spark" system,
and the different worlds of electronic and computerized ignitions.

I examined this closely at the NSU Zweirad (two-wheel) Museum:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daimler_Reitwagen
https://www.zweirad-museum.de/zweira...1885-1929.html

The ignition is a closed-end tube protruding from the combustion chamber
with a little flame playing on it to keep it red hot -- beneath the gas
tank. Pray for no leaks!

Right. Sorry. I read stuff. (Even in the service manual.) And it makes
no sense to me. I move on in the hope that it will make sense in the
future.

============================
https://nobelcoaching.com/visual-or-verbal-learner/
"It is more effective for everyone to absorb information when it is
presented both visually and verbally, but what if the lectures consist of
speech only?"

Which is the problem we face when writing explanations in text-only r.c.m.

I'm by nature a visual learner and have difficulty reducing multidimensional
concepts to linear text, so I practice here. Scientists and engineers
explain things to each other by sketching and are nearly helpless when they
can't.

At a Mensa meeting the speaker dropped into a boring monotone and then
suddenly said ELEPHANT, and asked us what immediately came to mind. Everyone
but me reported either the word or an image. I was the only one who saw
both, a captioned color picture of an elephant pulling down a tree branch.

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message ...

Thanks for the TO20 recommendation. I used my machine shop to build a
hydraulic front end loader attachment for my 18HP garden tractor to clear
snow, for which it worked quite well, however the tractor isn't heavy or
strong enough to more than scratch at our rocky New England soil.

================================================== ====
Aha, my old Picasa photos are still around:
https://photos.google.com/album/AF1Q...Y20vTCs_j1loIT
The bucket is stainless to survive road salt, arc welded with 312 rod. It
will lift and dump all the fresh snow it can hold, or about half a bucket of
packed snowbank.

The visible trailer tire is the one I had trouble with. Once sunlight
returned I could see a forest of fine whiskers of molding sprue rubber in
the bead area, at least two of which had been squished radially between the
rim and bead over its full width and left indented channels which may have
been the slow leak path. I snipped off the sprues, smeared latex along the
bead, remounted the tire without a tube, and it's holding pressure.

My error was not inflating and deflating the tube to position it before
levering the bead back into the rim. A tire lever pinched the still folded
tube. I should have fixed the air compressor -before- tackling the tire.
With luck the large round patch in the kit I bought will salvage the tube.

================================================== ====
Aha, my old Picasa photos are still around:
https://photos.google.com/album/AF1Q...Y20vTCs_j1loIT

Sharing enabled?
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ADDqcqbkWemoD2eC6

On Friday, May 1, 2020 at 8:15:11 AM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:

Right. Sorry. I read stuff. (Even in the service manual.) And it makes
no sense to me. I move on in the hope that it will make sense in the
future.

============================
https://nobelcoaching.com/visual-or-verbal-learner/
"It is more effective for everyone to absorb information when it is
presented both visually and verbally, but what if the lectures consist of
speech only?"

Which is the problem we face when writing explanations in text-only r.c.m.

I'm by nature a visual learner and have difficulty reducing multidimensional
concepts to linear text, so I practice here. Scientists and engineers
explain things to each other by sketching and are nearly helpless when they
can't.

At a Mensa meeting the speaker dropped into a boring monotone and then
suddenly said ELEPHANT, and asked us what immediately came to mind. Everyone
but me reported either the word or an image. I was the only one who saw
both, a captioned color picture of an elephant pulling down a tree branch.

Yeah I'm totally a visual learner*. A exploded view of all my
tractor parts.. (or just the distributor (D)) would be a wonderful
thing. After soaking over night I put some vise grips on the
D's rotating shaft and got it to give a bit.. but it's tight.
I found this oil plug felt, top center of shaft and maybe I can
blow some air down in there?

George H.
*words are slippery things, they slip and flip around on the
way from my brain to my voice, and from my ears / eyes to my brain.

On Friday, May 1, 2020 at 8:32:21 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
================================================== ====
Aha, my old Picasa photos are still around:
https://photos.google.com/album/AF1Q...Y20vTCs_j1loIT

Sharing enabled?
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ADDqcqbkWemoD2eC6

Nice. Let me ask a welding question. Being bored and at
home from college (freshman) my son has turned to welding.
(I bought us helmets a few years ago, we've got an old Dayton
AC/DC stick welder. and some real old stick... but new stuff
is on the way from amazon. 6011 1/8".)
Anyway there are like a bazillion stick welding videos, and if
anyone has a series or person they like... please tell me.
We're totally idiot beginners.
Mostly farm repair kinda stuff.
Well and 'the boy' wants to mod an old lawn tractor.

George H.

On Fri, 1 May 2020 18:32:06 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Friday, May 1, 2020 at 8:32:21 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
================================================== ====
Aha, my old Picasa photos are still around:
https://photos.google.com/album/AF1Q...Y20vTCs_j1loIT

Sharing enabled?
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ADDqcqbkWemoD2eC6

Nice. Let me ask a welding question. Being bored and at
home from college (freshman) my son has turned to welding.
(I bought us helmets a few years ago, we've got an old Dayton
AC/DC stick welder. and some real old stick... but new stuff
is on the way from amazon. 6011 1/8".)
Anyway there are like a bazillion stick welding videos, and if
anyone has a series or person they like... please tell me.
We're totally idiot beginners.
Mostly farm repair kinda stuff.
Well and 'the boy' wants to mod an old lawn tractor.

George H.

YouTube is FILLED with welding videos. There are some very good ones
there. Look for the guys with 5-200 videos. You will learn a lot. I
watch a couple every week, and my welding, setup and so forth has
gotten much better.

Gunner
__

"Journalists are extremely rare and shouldn’t be harmed, but propagandists are everywhere and should be hunted for sport"

Yeah..with no bag limit.




--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

wrote in message
...

On Friday, May 1, 2020 at 8:32:21 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
================================================== ====
Aha, my old Picasa photos are still around:
https://photos.google.com/album/AF1Q...Y20vTCs_j1loIT

Sharing enabled?
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ADDqcqbkWemoD2eC6

Nice. Let me ask a welding question. Being bored and at
home from college (freshman) my son has turned to welding.
(I bought us helmets a few years ago, we've got an old Dayton
AC/DC stick welder. and some real old stick... but new stuff
is on the way from amazon. 6011 1/8".)
Anyway there are like a bazillion stick welding videos, and if
anyone has a series or person they like... please tell me.
We're totally idiot beginners.
Mostly farm repair kinda stuff.
Well and 'the boy' wants to mod an old lawn tractor.

George H.

=================================================
I tried to learn stick welding in college but didn't really get it. When
area voc-techs began offering adult night classes I took machining and
welding classes repeatedly until I could do something useful without an
instructor looking over my shoulder, observing and correcting my mistakes
which a video can't do.

Before welding the main frame for that loader, a U of 2" square tubing that
holds the oil, I used all but the last session to practice welding butt
joints with 7018 rod, and then bending them to destruction with the shop's
50 ton press. Once I had full but not excessive bead penetration from one
side and could fold the test samples double along the weld without cracking
I welded the frame. I'm still very far from being a good welder.

7018 absorbs moisture unless stored air-tight. Of the rods that can be
stored open I found 6013 and 7014 the easiest and neatest. I didn't do very
well with 6011.

Besides the welder you need something to cut steel. I bought a used 4" x 6"
horizontal bandsaw of better than their average quality to cut bar and
tubing stock squarely and accurately. In the vertical position it can cut
flat plate free-hand, limited by the minimal left side clearance to the
frame. An abrasive chop saw also works, but not a wood-cutting bandsaw
unless you reduce its speed to 1/10th.

On Fri, 1 May 2020 18:32:06 -0700 (PDT)
wrote:

snip
Nice. Let me ask a welding question. Being bored and at
home from college (freshman) my son has turned to welding.
(I bought us helmets a few years ago, we've got an old Dayton
AC/DC stick welder. and some real old stick... but new stuff
is on the way from amazon. 6011 1/8".)
Anyway there are like a bazillion stick welding videos, and if
anyone has a series or person they like... please tell me.
We're totally idiot beginners.
Mostly farm repair kinda stuff.
Well and 'the boy' wants to mod an old lawn tractor.

My favorite youtuber and has his own website is Jody:

https://www.youtube.com/user/welding...dtricks/videos

http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/stick-welding.html

Try to keep your rods in a dry place. Not out in a damp work shed.
Mine are kept in the bedroom with a plastic bag tightly wrapped, tied
around them after opening...

6013 rods have a tendency to worm hole and can be tough to see what's
happening in the puddle. But you can get them 1/16 inch, which can be
handy for thinner material and laying in a root for narrow grooves...

Your 6011 1/8 rods should be fine for getting started

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

Well and 'the boy' wants to mod an old lawn tractor.

George H.

==========================

There are "Lawn", "Yard" and "Garden" tractors, in order of increasing
ruggedness. That is a Garden tractor with a substantial ladder frame and a
low range in the manual transmission, meant to pull a small plow behind or
carry a dozer blade or snow blower attachment on the front. The rear ag
tires are the same size as the original turf treads. I started with a Lawn
tractor whose stamped sheet metal chassis disintegrated from the stress of
pulling that trailer through the woods. My neighbor has a Yard tractor with
more HP but significantly less pulling power than mine.

I also inherited the 2005 replacement for that 1987 tractor. It differs from
a Yard tractor in not having mulching or bagger attachments. Neither turns
tightly enough to be a really good lawn mower. That's fine, I don't have a
really good lawn.

On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 8:48:24 AM UTC-4, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Fri, 1 May 2020 18:32:06 -0700 (PDT)
wrote:

snip
Nice. Let me ask a welding question. Being bored and at
home from college (freshman) my son has turned to welding.
(I bought us helmets a few years ago, we've got an old Dayton
AC/DC stick welder. and some real old stick... but new stuff
is on the way from amazon. 6011 1/8".)
Anyway there are like a bazillion stick welding videos, and if
anyone has a series or person they like... please tell me.
We're totally idiot beginners.
Mostly farm repair kinda stuff.
Well and 'the boy' wants to mod an old lawn tractor.

My favorite youtuber and has his own website is Jody:

https://www.youtube.com/user/welding...dtricks/videos

http://www.weldingtipsandtricks.com/stick-welding.html

Try to keep your rods in a dry place. Not out in a damp work shed.
Mine are kept in the bedroom with a plastic bag tightly wrapped, tied
around them after opening...

6013 rods have a tendency to worm hole and can be tough to see what's
happening in the puddle. But you can get them 1/16 inch, which can be
handy for thinner material and laying in a root for narrow grooves...

Your 6011 1/8 rods should be fine for getting started

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

Thanks I'll check him out. I figure there's lotsa stuff I'd like to
do that is just filling in rusted out steel. An old snow plow number
one on the list. Like filling in rotted out wood there's an endless
list of projects.

George H.

On Saturday, May 2, 2020 at 8:14:22 AM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
wrote in message
...

On Friday, May 1, 2020 at 8:32:21 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
================================================== ====
Aha, my old Picasa photos are still around:
https://photos.google.com/album/AF1Q...Y20vTCs_j1loIT

Sharing enabled?
https://photos.app.goo.gl/ADDqcqbkWemoD2eC6

Nice. Let me ask a welding question. Being bored and at
home from college (freshman) my son has turned to welding.
(I bought us helmets a few years ago, we've got an old Dayton
AC/DC stick welder. and some real old stick... but new stuff
is on the way from amazon. 6011 1/8".)
Anyway there are like a bazillion stick welding videos, and if
anyone has a series or person they like... please tell me.
We're totally idiot beginners.
Mostly farm repair kinda stuff.
Well and 'the boy' wants to mod an old lawn tractor.

George H.

=================================================
I tried to learn stick welding in college but didn't really get it. When
area voc-techs began offering adult night classes I took machining and
welding classes repeatedly until I could do something useful without an
instructor looking over my shoulder, observing and correcting my mistakes
which a video can't do.

Before welding the main frame for that loader, a U of 2" square tubing that
holds the oil, I used all but the last session to practice welding butt
joints with 7018 rod, and then bending them to destruction with the shop's
50 ton press. Once I had full but not excessive bead penetration from one
side and could fold the test samples double along the weld without cracking
I welded the frame. I'm still very far from being a good welder.
Hah, we're having a hard time getting the arc going with out sticking
the rod to the piece. "Stop, stuck the rod again" says my son. :^)
It's kinda like sticking the landing in ice skating.. but opposite.
Once going he seems to be much better (than me) at laying down a nice bead.


7018 absorbs moisture unless stored air-tight. Of the rods that can be
stored open I found 6013 and 7014 the easiest and neatest. I didn't do very
well with 6011.

Besides the welder you need something to cut steel. I bought a used 4" x 6"
horizontal bandsaw of better than their average quality to cut bar and
tubing stock squarely and accurately. In the vertical position it can cut
flat plate free-hand, limited by the minimal left side clearance to the
frame. An abrasive chop saw also works, but not a wood-cutting bandsaw
unless you reduce its speed to 1/10th.

Thanks for that. Well a new order of 6011 is on the way and will be here
soon. We'll see if that works any better. I was trying to talk my son
into a night class or something... there's a place 'up the road'
near Rochester NY. We'll see. Most of what I want to do is
crude 'farm' repair. He has more ambitious dreams (which is fine)
of building stuff.

bandsaw and cutting. At home I've only used the reciprocating
saw (~sawzall) with a metal blade. (slow)

George H.

bandsaw and cutting. At home I've only used the reciprocating
saw (~sawzall) with a metal blade. (slow)

George H.
===============================

The nearly essential power tool for welding is an angle grinder. I have a
4-1/2" one for precision and control, and a 7" one for speed. A decent
quality 4-1/2" is a good start.
They grind or wire-brush through rust quickly and are the eraser for your
welding mistakes. They can slice steel free-hand with a cut-off blade, or
you can buy a holder that turns them into a small chop saw for better
accuracy. They soon pay back their cost in the clothing (and skin) that
wasn't ripped by rough cut edges and welds. They are quite versatile, mine
has cut concrete sewer pipe and smoothed a rough stone step.

A bandsaw is better for thicker steel like building a hydraulic log
splitter, abrasive disks are good for thinner metal such as EMT conduit or
corrugated roofing that could strip saw blade teeth. Both can cut 1/8" angle
iron or water pipe.

On Mon, 27 Apr 2020 07:54:10 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Sunday, April 26, 2020 at 7:13:08 PM UTC-4, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Clare Snyder" wrote in message
...

On Sun, 26 Apr 2020 11:23:47 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

So let me ask a related question. The plugs are always
getting fouled (black fried gunk) on this tractor and
I clean 'em with kerosene. Could I maybe fix that some
with better timing? Though it does other things this
tractor spends most of it's life dragging a mower deck around
the 'estate' (The mower deck is called an estate groomer in the
manual. :^) Sorta medium rpm 2k, 1st or 2nd gear (depending on grass)
the grass is a heavy load on the pto/engine.

George H.
(did you guys do anything actively to reduce the political
crap on this site/net? or was it natural?)

Running rich most likely (float too high?) or possibly pumping oil.
Try a warmer plug. Champion F16 or even D21 instead of the original

=====================================

Running rich and burning oil give different exhaust smells. Oil smells
like -- burnt oil, a rich mixture smells like solvents, applying the choke
gives you an example. You can briefly hold your hand in the exhaust and then
sniff it. A modern car exhaust is the standard for proper combustion.

Thanks Jim. So if my exhaust smells the same as when I leave the
choke on, then maybe it's a carb problem?
(I'm resisting the urge to make some fart joke.)

George, do the tuneup with points and condenser, and put in new plugs.
Now that it's running correctly, check the plugs at 5 hours and see if
there is still black fried gunk on 'em. That could indicate oil
burning. Black soot is a rich carb condition. Go from there.

--
There is nothing more frightening than ignorance in action.

--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe