I need a way to vacuum hot oil without collapsing a vessel. We have been
using 55 gallon drums for oil that has cooled down, but, they will collapse
when enough hot oil is vacuumed into them. My thought was to use a 20 gallon,
200 psi, 650 degree F rated air tank. This would not be a true vacuum. There
will be constant air flow. The hot oil that we need to vacuum is only about 1
to 1 1/2 inches deep, so, a standard hot oil pump will not work.

--
for full context, visit https://www.polytechforum.com/metalw...um-649262-.htm

On 10/29/2019 10:18 PM, Leighton1210 wrote:
I need a way to vacuum hot oil without collapsing a vessel.Â* We have been
using 55 gallon drums for oil that has cooled down, but, they will collapse
when enough hot oil is vacuumed into them.Â* My thought was to use a 20 gallon,
200 psi, 650 degree F rated air tank.Â* This would not be a true vacuum.Â* There
will be constant air flow.Â* The hot oil that we need to vacuum is only about 1
to 1 1/2 inches deep, so, a standard hot oil pump will not work.


You can pull a good very high vacuum on a 304ss, 15 gallon beer keg.
with no problem. I've done that many times with no problems.
They weld easily with TIG.

On 10/29/2019 8:18 PM, Leighton1210 wrote:
I need a way to vacuum hot oil without collapsing a vessel.Â* We have been
using 55 gallon drums for oil that has cooled down, but, they will collapse
when enough hot oil is vacuumed into them.Â* My thought was to use a 20
gallon,
200 psi, 650 degree F rated air tank.Â* This would not be a true vacuum.
There
will be constant air flow.Â* The hot oil that we need to vacuum is only
about 1
to 1 1/2 inches deep, so, a standard hot oil pump will not work.


Weld a skeleton around the drum?

On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 11:18:06 PM UTC-4, Leighton1210 wrote:
I need a way to vacuum hot oil without collapsing a vessel. We have been
using 55 gallon drums for oil that has cooled down, but, they will collapse
when enough hot oil is vacuumed into them. My thought was to use a 20 gallon,
200 psi, 650 degree F rated air tank. This would not be a true vacuum. There
will be constant air flow. The hot oil that we need to vacuum is only about 1
to 1 1/2 inches deep, so, a standard hot oil pump will not work.

--
for full context, visit https://www.polytechforum.com/metalw...um-649262-.htm

You can pull a serious vacuum on a depleted Freon tank. Also there are refrigerant recovery tanks that have dual valves - one for gas at the top and one for liquid with a dip tube to the bottom.

Leighton1210 wrote:
I need a way to vacuum hot oil without collapsing a vessel. We have been
using 55 gallon drums for oil that has cooled down, but, they will collapse
when enough hot oil is vacuumed into them.

First thought is put a valve on the vacuum line, if you can't do that
can you put an air bleed on the drum to control vacuum?

It would help to know how much oil is being picked up and it's viscosity,
both hot and at ambient temp.

HTH,

bob prohaska

"bob prohaska" wrote in message
...
Leighton1210
wrote:
I need a way to vacuum hot oil without collapsing a vessel. We
have been
using 55 gallon drums for oil that has cooled down, but, they will
collapse
when enough hot oil is vacuumed into them.

First thought is put a valve on the vacuum line, if you can't do
that
can you put an air bleed on the drum to control vacuum?

It would help to know how much oil is being picked up and it's
viscosity,
both hot and at ambient temp.

HTH,

bob prohaska



Can a paint pressure tank hold a vacuum?

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message ...

"bob prohaska" wrote in message
...
Leighton1210 wrote:
I need a way to vacuum hot oil without collapsing a vessel. We have
been
using 55 gallon drums for oil that has cooled down, but, they will
collapse
when enough hot oil is vacuumed into them.

First thought is put a valve on the vacuum line, if you can't do that
can you put an air bleed on the drum to control vacuum?

It would help to know how much oil is being picked up and it's viscosity,
both hot and at ambient temp.

HTH,

bob prohaska



Can a paint pressure tank hold a vacuum?

Yes, the Harbor Freight 2.5 gal paint tank makes a nice vacuum chamber for
degassing resins for casting and potting (according to several YouTube
videos). As others have said, we really need to know how much oil will be
sucked up at one time. I'm also curious how the 55 gal drums failed - did
the ends or the side give way and implode?

--
Regards,
Carl Ijames

On 10/31/2019 11:30 PM, Carl wrote:
"Jim Wilkins"Â* wrote in message ...

"bob prohaska" wrote in message
...
Leighton1210 wrote:
I need a way to vacuum hot oil without collapsing a vessel.Â* We have been
using 55 gallon drums for oil that has cooled down, but, they will collapse
when enough hot oil is vacuumed into them.

First thought is put a valve on the vacuum line, if you can't do that
can you put an air bleed on the drum to control vacuum?

It would help to know how much oil is being picked up and it's viscosity,
both hot and at ambient temp.

HTH,

bob prohaska



Can a paint pressure tank hold a vacuum?

Yes, the Harbor Freight 2.5 gal paint tank makes a nice vacuum chamber for
degassing resins for casting and potting (according to several YouTube videos).
As others have said, we really need to know how much oil will be sucked up at
one time.Â* I'm also curious how the 55 gal drums failed - did the ends or the
side give way and implode?


I killed a 55g, years ago, with my AC vac pump. The sides collapsed on that one.

On Fri, 1 Nov 2019 00:30:16 -0400, "Carl"
wrote:

I'm also curious how the 55 gal drums failed - did
the ends or the side give way and implode?

I'm sure it will vary, but here are some school kids trying it out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsoE4F2Pb20
--
RoRo

On 2019-10-30, Leighton1210 wrote:

I need a way to vacuum hot oil without collapsing a vessel. We have
been using 55 gallon drums for oil that has cooled down, but, they will
collapse when enough hot oil is vacuumed into them.

Are these plastic drums or steel? I think that the vacuum is
about the same value for hot or cold oil, but the hot oil softens
plastic drums, making it easier for the vacuum to collapse them.

My thought was to
use a 20 gallon, 200 psi, 650 degree F rated air tank.

How big a tank? Remember, tanks made for pressure are not
necessarily structurally designed for vacuum -- high or even mild. I
presume that the level of vacuum is what you get out of a Shop Vac type
device. The limit there is what the pump can produce before it starts
spinning faster because the air in the device is too thin to resist the
motor's force.

This would not
be a true vacuum. There will be constant air flow. The hot oil that we
need to vacuum is only about 1 to 1 1/2 inches deep, so, a standard hot
oil pump will not work.

Again -- is it a plastic drum? I'll bet a steel one would
collapse at the same vacuum whether hot or cold -- and a higher vacuum
than what collapses the plastic drum when hot.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Robert Roland on Sat, 02 Nov 2019 20:08:58 +0100
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Fri, 1 Nov 2019 00:30:16 -0400, "Carl"
wrote:

I'm also curious how the 55 gal drums failed - did
the ends or the side give way and implode?

I'm sure it will vary, but here are some school kids trying it out:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JsoE4F2Pb20

The Mythbuster guys managed to collapse a tank car. But they had
to "ding" the tank to compromise the structural integrity first. (The
first time they tried, they got a vacuum of 27 inches Hg, but no
collapse. Third time, they dropped a 3,200 lb concrete block on it,
and the tank collapse at 23 inches Hg.)

--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 6:56:25 PM UTC-7, pyotr filipivich wrote:

The Mythbuster guys managed to collapse a tank car. But they had
to "ding" the tank to compromise the structural integrity first

Yeah, that's the key; a round tank (or even a flat lid atop a can) doesn't
spontaneously break symmetry, you have to START that. So,
an undented drum should hold vacuum well (it's only 14 psi)
just as a beer can should be hard to crush. But, I can
hold the beer can and dent the sides with my fingers, then a little
twist... and it's flat in seconds.

Half-crumpled 50 gal tanks can be re-formed to original shape, quickly,
if you have a blasting cap handy...

whit3rd on Sun, 3 Nov 2019 17:55:12 -0800 (PST)
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 6:56:25 PM UTC-7, pyotr filipivich wrote:

The Mythbuster guys managed to collapse a tank car. But they had
to "ding" the tank to compromise the structural integrity first

Yeah, that's the key; a round tank (or even a flat lid atop a can) doesn't
spontaneously break symmetry, you have to START that. So,
an undented drum should hold vacuum well (it's only 14 psi)
just as a beer can should be hard to crush. But, I can
hold the beer can and dent the sides with my fingers, then a little
twist... and it's flat in seconds.

Old "trick" balance on an empty popcan.
Then reach down and tap the sides. "Crunch!" as the can
collapses.

Half-crumpled 50 gal tanks can be re-formed to original shape, quickly,
if you have a blasting cap handy...

"a little gasoline, a torch, good as new."
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
...
whit3rd on Sun, 3 Nov 2019 17:55:12 -0800 (PST)
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 6:56:25 PM UTC-7, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

The Mythbuster guys managed to collapse a tank car. But they had
to "ding" the tank to compromise the structural integrity first

Yeah, that's the key; a round tank (or even a flat lid atop a can)
doesn't
spontaneously break symmetry, you have to START that. So,
an undented drum should hold vacuum well (it's only 14 psi)
just as a beer can should be hard to crush. But, I can
hold the beer can and dent the sides with my fingers, then a little
twist... and it's flat in seconds.

Old "trick" balance on an empty popcan.
Then reach down and tap the sides. "Crunch!" as the can
collapses.

Half-crumpled 50 gal tanks can be re-formed to original shape,
quickly,
if you have a blasting cap handy...

"a little gasoline, a torch, good as new."
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
...
whit3rd on Sun, 3 Nov 2019 17:55:12 -0800 (PST)
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Saturday, November 2, 2019 at 6:56:25 PM UTC-7, pyotr filipivich
wrote:


Half-crumpled 50 gal tanks can be re-formed to original shape,
quickly,
if you have a blasting cap handy...

"a little gasoline, a torch, good as new."
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

A New England winter gives a rain-filled 55 gallon drum a neatly domed
end.

replying to bob prohaska, Leighton1210 wrote:
It is 68 weight hydraulic oil. The real issue with it isn't the amount of oil
we are trying to vacuum up. The issue is the heat involved along with the
length of hose needed to do the job. I apologize for not stating that in the
original text. The hose is 15 foot long, 1 inch diameter. The depth of the
oil is only around 1 to 1 1/2 inches, but, it covers an area approximately 160
square feet. I would be constantly pulling air along with the oil.
Sometimes, though, there is debris that will get vacuumed up. All of these
minor items, i believe, causes the issue that I have. I'm just not sure of a
good way to do this, other than when the oil is cooled off. As for the valve
on the vacuum line, I should be able to put a valve on the vacuum head. I can
make it adjustable and see what happens.

--
for full context, visit https://www.polytechforum.com/metalw...um-649262-.htm

On Tuesday, October 29, 2019 at 11:18:06 PM UTC-4, Leighton1210 wrote:
I need a way to vacuum hot oil without collapsing a vessel. We have been
using 55 gallon drums for oil that has cooled down, but, they will collapse
when enough hot oil is vacuumed into them. My thought was to use a 20 gallon,
200 psi, 650 degree F rated air tank. This would not be a true vacuum. There
will be constant air flow. The hot oil that we need to vacuum is only about 1
to 1 1/2 inches deep, so, a standard hot oil pump will not work.

-- For more than 10 years we sucked used coolant into 55 gallon drums with a vacuum motor bolted to the lift off lid no problems with collapsing at all, but we used 2inch ID hose. As others have said only 15psi max with a hivac pump not a vacuum cleaner type setup. You should be able to empty in less than a minute.
for full context, visit https://www.polytechforum.com/metalw...um-649262-.htm

On Thu, 7 Nov 2019 18:18:02 +0000, Leighton1210
wrote:

replying to bob prohaska, Leighton1210 wrote:
It is 68 weight hydraulic oil. The real issue with it isn't the amount of oil
we are trying to vacuum up. The issue is the heat involved along with the
length of hose needed to do the job. I apologize for not stating that in the
original text. The hose is 15 foot long, 1 inch diameter. The depth of the
oil is only around 1 to 1 1/2 inches, but, it covers an area approximately 160
square feet. I would be constantly pulling air along with the oil.
Sometimes, though, there is debris that will get vacuumed up. All of these
minor items, i believe, causes the issue that I have. I'm just not sure of a
good way to do this, other than when the oil is cooled off. As for the valve
on the vacuum line, I should be able to put a valve on the vacuum head. I can
make it adjustable and see what happens.

Where is the oil before it gets spread out like that? Any chance of
using gravity to collect it? Or vacuum it out of whatever it came out
of?

Jim Wilkins wrote:


A New England winter gives a rain-filled 55 gallon drum a neatly domed
end.


The water expands as it freezes?
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

"Jeff Wisnia" wrote in message
...


Jim Wilkins wrote:


A New England winter gives a rain-filled 55 gallon drum a neatly
domed
end.


The water expands as it freezes?
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.8*10^12 furlongs per fortnight.

It freezes first on the exposed top and sides, last on the
ground-insulated bottom which then has the least resistance to
expansion pressure. Above-ground swimming pools are protected by
floating air-filled pillows on top to leave unfrozen or at least
weaker openings for the water in the center to escape through.

If all the pillows deflate the walls bulge instead and I acquire more
highly rust resistant sheet metal for projects.