Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Old November 25th 19, 06:04 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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"Jim Wilkins" on Sun, 24 Nov 2019 18:39:58
-0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

Wow, so much loss for these poor guys! Then fame for Fulton rather
than Fitch. That sucks. But we did have some very talented people
in the USA.


History is full of guy A inventing / discovering something "first"
but guy B is the one who got the publicity. E.G., it is called
"America" because the map maker called it after Americo Vespucci,
for
various reasons.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."


It's often A, B, C and D tinkering with the idea, then E making it
practical after a different advance removes the last stumbling block.
Steam transportation required stronger boilers,


As I understand it. one of the critical features of steam engines
(smooth round cylinders which allowed a tight fit) came as a result of
development in the armaments trade: the ability to bore out cannon
barrels.
And so forth.

airplanes needed lightweight engines.

Although I have plans for a steam powered aeroplane. (circa 1908
iirc)


In my own experience the Segway required solid-state gyros, and cell
phones required A/D converters fast enough to digitize radio
frequencies. I was building prototypes with digital storage scope
components.


I recall reading an article of a guy who made a processor using
individual transistors soldered to circuit boards.

There is a lot of "retro-" building where people are doing "by
hand" as a hobby what is not practical to do commercially. I make
wooden boxes, the wife crochets blankets. Nobody is going to pay for
our time, the best we can hope for is to cover materials. "It is a
hobby."

--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

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Old November 25th 19, 06:27 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 09:04:53 -0800
pyotr filipivich wrote:

snip
I make wooden boxes, the wife crochets blankets.


Have you seen these puzzle boxes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_puzzle_box

I have one like the first image an old acquaintance brought back from
Japan after spending some time there. Very cool and they sell for a
decent price.

Relative crocheted custom table clothes when she was younger. They used
sell for quite a bit. One in particular was $600 in the mid 1970's. I
think they "earned" every bit of it though

I'm guilty of repairing many items though that would never be
profitable to do for pay...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

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Old November 25th 19, 11:48 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
...
...
I recall reading an article of a guy who made a processor using
individual transistors soldered to circuit boards.

--
pyotr filipivich


The Army taught me computer electronics at that RTL and DTL level in
1970. Flip-flops used tricky level shifting and diode steering to
direct a capacitive clock pulse to turn off the base of the On
transistor. Luckily I had learned DC and AC network analysis in
college Physics classes.
Later I got into the design of custom ICs, beginning with a DRAM
controller for the digital signal processor in a color scanner. When I
started as a lab tech at Unitrode my training assignment was to
dissect an IC layer by layer with nitric acid and draw the schematic.
I got all the current mirrors, gates, op amps and comparators right
but couldn't decipher the innards of the voltage reference circuit.


  #44   Report Post  
Old November 26th 19, 01:08 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Leon Fisk on Mon, 25 Nov 2019 13:27:37 -0400
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 09:04:53 -0800
pyotr filipivich wrote:

snip
I make wooden boxes, the wife crochets blankets.


Have you seen these puzzle boxes:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_puzzle_box

I have one like the first image an old acquaintance brought back from
Japan after spending some time there. Very cool and they sell for a
decent price.

Relative crocheted custom table clothes when she was younger. They used
sell for quite a bit. One in particular was $600 in the mid 1970's. I
think they "earned" every bit of it though


IF you have the skill, sure. My skills aren't _that_ good.

I'm guilty of repairing many items though that would never be
profitable to do for pay...


I've bought boxes, cabinets, and the like on the grounds "The
hardware is more than they're asking for the whole thing!"

--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."
  #45   Report Post  
Old November 27th 19, 01:43 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...

Wow, so much loss for these poor guys! Then fame for Fulton rather
than Fitch. That sucks. But we did have some very talented
people
in the USA.


History is full of guy A inventing / discovering something "first"
but guy B is the one who got the publicity. E.G., it is called
"America" because the map maker called it after Americo Vespucci,
for
various reasons.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels
alone."


It's often A, B, C and D tinkering with the idea, then E making it
practical after a different advance removes the last stumbling
block. Steam transportation required stronger boilers, airplanes
needed lightweight engines.


Here's a fine example of the protracted development of a promising but
difficult idea into a practical product::
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/60794...-h/60794-h.htm
"The reader has doubtless sensed a certain monotony in this review of
the early typewriter inventions. “It did good work, but it was too
slow,” is the formula which fits nearly all of them; certainly all of
them that were able to write at all."




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Old November 30th 19, 05:56 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 09:04:53 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

"Jim Wilkins" on Sun, 24 Nov 2019 18:39:58
-0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

Wow, so much loss for these poor guys! Then fame for Fulton rather
than Fitch. That sucks. But we did have some very talented people
in the USA.

History is full of guy A inventing / discovering something "first"
but guy B is the one who got the publicity. E.G., it is called
"America" because the map maker called it after Americo Vespucci,
for
various reasons.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."


It's often A, B, C and D tinkering with the idea, then E making it
practical after a different advance removes the last stumbling block.
Steam transportation required stronger boilers,


As I understand it. one of the critical features of steam engines
(smooth round cylinders which allowed a tight fit) came as a result of
development in the armaments trade: the ability to bore out cannon
barrels.
And so forth.

airplanes needed lightweight engines.

Although I have plans for a steam powered aeroplane. (circa 1908
iirc)


In my own experience the Segway required solid-state gyros, and cell
phones required A/D converters fast enough to digitize radio
frequencies. I was building prototypes with digital storage scope
components.


I recall reading an article of a guy who made a processor using
individual transistors soldered to circuit boards.

There is a lot of "retro-" building where people are doing "by
hand" as a hobby what is not practical to do commercially. I make
wooden boxes, the wife crochets blankets. Nobody is going to pay for
our time, the best we can hope for is to cover materials. "It is a
hobby."


Quilters used to give away their hard work, too, but they found a
marketing scheme which now sees quilts go for hundreds of dollars.
Find your marketer, dude.


--
There is nothing more frightening than ignorance in action.

--Johann Wolfgang von Goethe
  #47   Report Post  
Old December 3rd 19, 05:20 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Larry Jaques on Fri, 29 Nov 2019
20:56:15 -0800 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

In my own experience the Segway required solid-state gyros, and cell
phones required A/D converters fast enough to digitize radio
frequencies. I was building prototypes with digital storage scope
components.


I recall reading an article of a guy who made a processor using
individual transistors soldered to circuit boards.

There is a lot of "retro-" building where people are doing "by
hand" as a hobby what is not practical to do commercially. I make
wooden boxes, the wife crochets blankets. Nobody is going to pay for
our time, the best we can hope for is to cover materials. "It is a
hobby."


Quilters used to give away their hard work, too, but they found a
marketing scheme which now sees quilts go for hundreds of dollars.
Find your marketer, dude.


It is a possibility. BUT ... I went to tech school to learn
machining, because woodworking was a hobby/relaxation. However, as
I've said, "I hired this company to collect my pay from customers, oh,
and to find customers, suppliers, and to handle the paperwork side of
the business."



--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."
  #48   Report Post  
Old December 4th 19, 07:14 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 09:04:53 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Steam transportation required stronger boilers,


As I understand it. one of the critical features of steam engines
(smooth round cylinders which allowed a tight fit) came as a result of
development in the armaments trade: the ability to bore out cannon
barrels.
And so forth.

airplanes needed lightweight engines.

Although I have plans for a steam powered aeroplane. (circa 1908
iirc)


Go to YouTube for videos of the flight of the Bessler Steam Plane.

Flew quite nicely.

Gunner
__

"Poor widdle Wudy...mentally ill, lies constantly, doesnt know who he is, or even what gender "he" is.

No more pathetic creature has ever walked the earth. But...he is locked into a mental hospital for the safety of the public.

Which is a very good thing."

Asun rauhassa, valmistaudun sotaan.

  #49   Report Post  
Old December 4th 19, 07:18 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 10,399
Default Rifling machine plans

On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 09:04:53 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:


As I understand it. one of the critical features of steam engines
(smooth round cylinders which allowed a tight fit) came as a result of
development in the armaments trade: the ability to bore out cannon
barrels.
And so forth.

airplanes needed lightweight engines.

Although I have plans for a steam powered aeroplane. (circa 1908
iirc)


https://youtu.be/nw6NFmcnW-8
__

"Poor widdle Wudy...mentally ill, lies constantly, doesnt know who he is, or even what gender "he" is.

No more pathetic creature has ever walked the earth. But...he is locked into a mental hospital for the safety of the public.

Which is a very good thing."

Asun rauhassa, valmistaudun sotaan.

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Old December 4th 19, 06:21 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 5,829
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"David Billington" wrote in message
...
On 04/12/2019 14:26, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 09:04:53 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Steam transportation required stronger boilers,
As I understand it. one of the critical features of steam engines
(smooth round cylinders which allowed a tight fit) came as a
result
of
development in the armaments trade: the ability to bore out
cannon
barrels.
And so forth.

airplanes needed lightweight engines.
Although I have plans for a steam powered aeroplane. (circa 1908
iirc)
Go to YouTube for videos of the flight of the Bessler Steam Plane.

Flew quite nicely.

Gunner

Advances in material science enabled flash boilers to be light
enough
to fly, but the lower thermodynamic efficiency of water-based steam
engines made them impractical due to higher fuel weight. Their only
real advantage is that they can burn cheaper solid fuel such as
wood
or coal.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_efficiency
" In effect, diesels ran six times as far as steamers utilizing
fuel
that cost only twice as much. This was due to the much better
thermal
efficiency of diesel engines compared to steam."

Mass-produced gasoline aircraft engines reached 34% efficiency by
recovering exhaust energy with turbines. Steam engines can only
achieve that with bulky and fragile condensers that were never
practical on locomotives, let alone aircraft. Also unlike ships and
power plants there's no reliable water source to cool the condenser
up
there, and air condensers weren't the answer because the engine
needs
to be able to dissipate the most heat at takeoff in hot ground air.
Without a condenser steam engine efficiency runs to 10% or less.


Condensing steam locomotives were produced successfully and used in
dry parts of the world where water was hard to come by

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conden...eam_locomotive


"The system was satisfactory for tram engines (which were very
low-powered) but would not have worked for larger railway
locomotives."

http://cs.trains.com/trn/f/740/t/209...rt=ASC&pi332=2
"South African Railways was famous for its condensing 4-8-4's, which
were built to support steam operation through a desert where water was
unavailable. The condensing gear, which was mounted in the tender,
had its own maintenance needs above and beyond that of the rest of the
locomotive. SAR also had otherwise identical conventional 4-8-4's for
service elsewhere, which implies that the condensing gear existed only
for a special situation."

Their disadvantages were tolerated when necessary to solve more
serious problems. Somewhere I read that their maintenance was quite
high, due partly to cracking from hammer blow. Your small loading
gauge severely restricted what could be hung on the outside in the air
flow.




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