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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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wires are metal ...
Â*Â* When I got my truck back from our son , lots of things that he just
couldn't be bothered to fix . One thing is the radio power supply . He did tell me that the radio had "died" , turns out the fuse (in the fuse block) keeps blowing . I've got the dashboard apart enough to check the wiring harness and supply wires , can't find any cuts or anything that looks like damaged insulation ... it works just fine sittin' in the driveway , but within a few miles driving it blows the fuse . I figured it was the radio/CD player unit so I got a new one , does the same thing .. I'm really puzzled by this , from the way the fuse was spattered it's got to be a dead short to ground . I think it very unlikely that the new radio/CD unit is bad - the old one did work when I replaced the fuse , for a few miles same as the new unit . This is an '86 GMC pickup , I'm hoping someone here might be aware of a known problem area that I might check ... I gotta have tunes ! -- Snag Yes , I'm old and crochety - and armed . Get outta my woods ! |
#2
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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wires are metal ...
On Sep 24, 2019, Terry Coombs wrote
(in article ): When I got my truck back from our son , lots of things that he just couldn't be bothered to fix . One thing is the radio power supply . He did tell me that the radio had "died" , turns out the fuse (in the fuse block) keeps blowing . I've got the dashboard apart enough to check the wiring harness and supply wires , can't find any cuts or anything that looks like damaged insulation ... it works just fine sittin' in the driveway , but within a few miles driving it blows the fuse . I figured it was the radio/CD player unit so I got a new one , does the same thing . I'm really puzzled by this , from the way the fuse was spattered it's got to be a dead short to ground . I think it very unlikely that the new radio/CD unit is bad - the old one did work when I replaced the fuse , for a few miles same as the new unit . This is an '86 GMC pickup , I'm hoping someone here might be aware of a known problem area that I might check ... I gotta have tunes ! It´s classic for sure. The power wire is bouncing around as you drive, and over time the wire insulation was worn through, allowing contact between copper wire and some part of the steel body.When you find the spot, it will be pretty obvious visually. Solution is to find out where this is happening, and mechanically prevent further contact. Joe Gwinn |
#3
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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wires are metal ...
"Terry Coombs" wrote in message
... When I got my truck back from our son , lots of things that he just couldn't be bothered to fix . One thing is the radio power supply . He did tell me that the radio had "died" , turns out the fuse (in the fuse block) keeps blowing . I've got the dashboard apart enough to check the wiring harness and supply wires , can't find any cuts or anything that looks like damaged insulation ... it works just fine sittin' in the driveway , but within a few miles driving it blows the fuse . I figured it was the radio/CD player unit so I got a new one , does the same thing . I'm really puzzled by this , from the way the fuse was spattered it's got to be a dead short to ground . I think it very unlikely that the new radio/CD unit is bad - the old one did work when I replaced the fuse , for a few miles same as the new unit . This is an '86 GMC pickup , I'm hoping someone here might be aware of a known problem area that I might check ... I gotta have tunes ! -- Snag Yes , I'm old and crochety - and armed . Get outta my woods ! Check/clean the battery connections. If connector vibration momentarily disconnects the battery from the charging circuit, the alternator output voltage will rise until a protective clamping device somewhere, like in the radio, conducts enough current to limit it. The voltage regulator tries to cut off the alternator field current but can't remove the current already flowing in the field winding. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Load_dump |
#4
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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wires are metal ...
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 07:58:47 -0500
Terry Coombs wrote: Â*Â* When I got my truck back from our son , lots of things that he just couldn't be bothered to fix . One thing is the radio power supply . He did tell me that the radio had "died" , turns out the fuse (in the fuse block) keeps blowing . I've got the dashboard apart enough to check the wiring harness and supply wires , can't find any cuts or anything that looks like damaged insulation ... it works just fine sittin' in the driveway , but within a few miles driving it blows the fuse . I figured it was the radio/CD player unit so I got a new one , does the same thing . I'm really puzzled by this , from the way the fuse was spattered it's got to be a dead short to ground . I think it very unlikely that the new radio/CD unit is bad - the old one did work when I replaced the fuse , for a few miles same as the new unit . This is an '86 GMC pickup , I'm hoping someone here might be aware of a known problem area that I might check ... I gotta have tunes ! Just some random ideas... Does it have a power antenna? (doubtful) Check the fuse schematic and see if anything else uses the same fuse? Any kind of work/replacement done than might have pinched a wire underneath or shot a new screw threw a wire? Some speaker systems run "hot leads" and do not behave well if a lead gets grounded... -- Leon Fisk Grand Rapids MI |
#5
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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wires are metal ...
"Leon Fisk" wrote in message
... On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 07:58:47 -0500 Terry Coombs wrote: When I got my truck back from our son , lots of things that he just couldn't be bothered to fix . One thing is the radio power supply . He did tell me that the radio had "died" , turns out the fuse (in the fuse block) keeps blowing . I've got the dashboard apart enough to check the wiring harness and supply wires , can't find any cuts or anything that looks like damaged insulation ... it works just fine sittin' in the driveway , but within a few miles driving it blows the fuse . I figured it was the radio/CD player unit so I got a new one , does the same thing . I'm really puzzled by this , from the way the fuse was spattered it's got to be a dead short to ground . I think it very unlikely that the new radio/CD unit is bad - the old one did work when I replaced the fuse , for a few miles same as the new unit . This is an '86 GMC pickup , I'm hoping someone here might be aware of a known problem area that I might check ... I gotta have tunes ! Just some random ideas... Does it have a power antenna? (doubtful) Check the fuse schematic and see if anything else uses the same fuse? Any kind of work/replacement done than might have pinched a wire underneath or shot a new screw threw a wire? Some speaker systems run "hot leads" and do not behave well if a lead gets grounded... -- Leon Fisk Grand Rapids MI ===================== Good suggestion. I prioritize my troubleshooting sequence partly by how quick and easy the tests are with available equipment. How would you check for an intermittent speaker wire short to ground? |
#6
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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wires are metal ...
On 9/24/2019 9:03 AM, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
On Sep 24, 2019, Terry Coombs wrote (in article ): When I got my truck back from our son , lots of things that he just couldn't be bothered to fix . One thing is the radio power supply . He did tell me that the radio had "died" , turns out the fuse (in the fuse block) keeps blowing . I've got the dashboard apart enough to check the wiring harness and supply wires , can't find any cuts or anything that looks like damaged insulation ... it works just fine sittin' in the driveway , but within a few miles driving it blows the fuse . I figured it was the radio/CD player unit so I got a new one , does the same thing . I'm really puzzled by this , from the way the fuse was spattered it's got to be a dead short to ground . I think it very unlikely that the new radio/CD unit is bad - the old one did work when I replaced the fuse , for a few miles same as the new unit . This is an '86 GMC pickup , I'm hoping someone here might be aware of a known problem area that I might check ... I gotta have tunes ! It´s classic for sure. The power wire is bouncing around as you drive, and over time the wire insulation was worn through, allowing contact between copper wire and some part of the steel body.When you find the spot, it will be pretty obvious visually. Solution is to find out where this is happening, and mechanically prevent further contact. Joe Gwinn Â* I kinda figure you're right , there's a place where it's worn thru . The problem is finding that spot ... if it was obvious I'd have found it by now . I've looked and felt as much of that harness as is available to check , nothing so far . I'm starting to wonder if it's in/near the fuse block , maybe where the under-dash wiring comes from behind the block . But it's raining today , and I'll be too busy to look into it further until Friday or Saturday . -- Snag Yes , I'm old and crochety - and armed . Get outta my woods ! |
#7
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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wires are metal ...
On 9/24/2019 9:04 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Terry Coombs" wrote in message ... When I got my truck back from our son , lots of things that he just couldn't be bothered to fix . One thing is the radio power supply . He did tell me that the radio had "died" , turns out the fuse (in the fuse block) keeps blowing . I've got the dashboard apart enough to check the wiring harness and supply wires , can't find any cuts or anything that looks like damaged insulation ... it works just fine sittin' in the driveway , but within a few miles driving it blows the fuse . I figured it was the radio/CD player unit so I got a new one , does the same thing . I'm really puzzled by this , from the way the fuse was spattered it's got to be a dead short to ground . I think it very unlikely that the new radio/CD unit is bad - the old one did work when I replaced the fuse , for a few miles same as the new unit . This is an '86 GMC pickup , I'm hoping someone here might be aware of a known problem area that I might check ... I gotta have tunes ! -- Snag Yes , I'm old and crochety - and armed . Get outta my woods ! Check/clean the battery connections. If connector vibration momentarily disconnects the battery from the charging circuit, the alternator output voltage will rise until a protective clamping device somewhere, like in the radio, conducts enough current to limit it. The voltage regulator tries to cut off the alternator field current but can't remove the current already flowing in the field winding. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Load_dump Â* Wouldn't that blow the smaller fuse in the radio itself before the 15 amp supply fuse ? -- Snag Yes , I'm old and crochety - and armed . Get outta my woods ! |
#8
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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wires are metal ...
On 9/24/2019 9:11 AM, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 07:58:47 -0500 Terry Coombs wrote: Â*Â* When I got my truck back from our son , lots of things that he just couldn't be bothered to fix . One thing is the radio power supply . He did tell me that the radio had "died" , turns out the fuse (in the fuse block) keeps blowing . I've got the dashboard apart enough to check the wiring harness and supply wires , can't find any cuts or anything that looks like damaged insulation ... it works just fine sittin' in the driveway , but within a few miles driving it blows the fuse . I figured it was the radio/CD player unit so I got a new one , does the same thing . I'm really puzzled by this , from the way the fuse was spattered it's got to be a dead short to ground . I think it very unlikely that the new radio/CD unit is bad - the old one did work when I replaced the fuse , for a few miles same as the new unit . This is an '86 GMC pickup , I'm hoping someone here might be aware of a known problem area that I might check ... I gotta have tunes ! Just some random ideas... Does it have a power antenna? (doubtful) Â* Nope , no power antenna . Check the fuse schematic and see if anything else uses the same fuse? Â* As far as I can tell it's only the radio , nothing else goes dead . Any kind of work/replacement done than might have pinched a wire underneath or shot a new screw threw a wire? Â*Â* Nope , no other work besides a transmission replacement . I don't think the power lead for the radio goes anywhere there . Some speaker systems run "hot leads" and do not behave well if a lead gets grounded... Â* No powered speakers , basic stock 4 speaker system , I have some bigger speakers in a box behind the seat . I've never had any problems with the stereo system in the 12 years I've had this truck - until I loaned it to my son "for a few weeks" that turned into a year and a half .. In fact , the only problems I've had were normal wear-n-tear stuff that happens with over 120k on the odometer . -- Snag Yes , I'm old and crochety - and armed . Get outta my woods ! |
#9
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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wires are metal ...
"Terry Coombs" wrote in message
... On 9/24/2019 9:03 AM, Joseph Gwinn wrote: On Sep 24, 2019, Terry Coombs wrote (in article ): When I got my truck back from our son , lots of things that he just couldn't be bothered to fix . One thing is the radio power supply . He did tell me that the radio had "died" , turns out the fuse (in the fuse block) keeps blowing . I've got the dashboard apart enough to check the wiring harness and supply wires , can't find any cuts or anything that looks like damaged insulation ... it works just fine sittin' in the driveway , but within a few miles driving it blows the fuse . I figured it was the radio/CD player unit so I got a new one , does the same thing . I'm really puzzled by this , from the way the fuse was spattered it's got to be a dead short to ground . I think it very unlikely that the new radio/CD unit is bad - the old one did work when I replaced the fuse , for a few miles same as the new unit . This is an '86 GMC pickup , I'm hoping someone here might be aware of a known problem area that I might check ... I gotta have tunes ! It´s classic for sure. The power wire is bouncing around as you drive, and over time the wire insulation was worn through, allowing contact between copper wire and some part of the steel body.When you find the spot, it will be pretty obvious visually. Solution is to find out where this is happening, and mechanically prevent further contact. Joe Gwinn I kinda figure you're right , there's a place where it's worn thru . The problem is finding that spot ... if it was obvious I'd have found it by now . I've looked and felt as much of that harness as is available to check , nothing so far . I'm starting to wonder if it's in/near the fuse block , maybe where the under-dash wiring comes from behind the block . But it's raining today , and I'll be too busy to look into it further until Friday or Saturday . -- Snag Yes , I'm old and crochety - and armed . Get outta my woods ! Taping possible contact areas may help. This has been useful when there are no voltage-sensitive components at risk, like older appliances: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00975X2FY..._26725410_item Battery-powered ones are more convenient, but don't stop generating if you get shocked. |
#10
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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wires are metal ...
"Terry Coombs" wrote in message
... On 9/24/2019 9:04 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote: "Terry Coombs" wrote in message ... When I got my truck back from our son , lots of things that he just couldn't be bothered to fix . One thing is the radio power supply . He did tell me that the radio had "died" , turns out the fuse (in the fuse block) keeps blowing . I've got the dashboard apart enough to check the wiring harness and supply wires , can't find any cuts or anything that looks like damaged insulation ... it works just fine sittin' in the driveway , but within a few miles driving it blows the fuse . I figured it was the radio/CD player unit so I got a new one , does the same thing . I'm really puzzled by this , from the way the fuse was spattered it's got to be a dead short to ground . I think it very unlikely that the new radio/CD unit is bad - the old one did work when I replaced the fuse , for a few miles same as the new unit . This is an '86 GMC pickup , I'm hoping someone here might be aware of a known problem area that I might check ... I gotta have tunes ! -- Snag Yes , I'm old and crochety - and armed . Get outta my woods ! Check/clean the battery connections. If connector vibration momentarily disconnects the battery from the charging circuit, the alternator output voltage will rise until a protective clamping device somewhere, like in the radio, conducts enough current to limit it. The voltage regulator tries to cut off the alternator field current but can't remove the current already flowing in the field winding. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Load_dump Wouldn't that blow the smaller fuse in the radio itself before the 15 amp supply fuse ? -- Snag Yes , I'm old and crochety - and armed . Get outta my woods ! Hard to say without looking. Some fuses blow immediately, others have a time delay to allow high-current startup surges like charging the power supply capacitors. For example I can pull 70A for about 10 seconds through the 30A output circuit breaker on my home brew 24V battery charger. Cleaning the battery connections is a good idea whether or not it helps here. |
#11
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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wires are metal ...
On 9/24/2019 10:07 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Terry Coombs" wrote in message ... On 9/24/2019 9:03 AM, Joseph Gwinn wrote: On Sep 24, 2019, Terry Coombs wrote (in article ): When I got my truck back from our son , lots of things that he just couldn't be bothered to fix . One thing is the radio power supply . He did tell me that the radio had "died" , turns out the fuse (in the fuse block) keeps blowing . I've got the dashboard apart enough to check the wiring harness and supply wires , can't find any cuts or anything that looks like damaged insulation ... it works just fine sittin' in the driveway , but within a few miles driving it blows the fuse . I figured it was the radio/CD player unit so I got a new one , does the same thing . I'm really puzzled by this , from the way the fuse was spattered it's got to be a dead short to ground . I think it very unlikely that the new radio/CD unit is bad - the old one did work when I replaced the fuse , for a few miles same as the new unit . This is an '86 GMC pickup , I'm hoping someone here might be aware of a known problem area that I might check ... I gotta have tunes ! It´s classic for sure. The power wire is bouncing around as you drive, and over time the wire insulation was worn through, allowing contact between copper wire and some part of the steel body.When you find the spot, it will be pretty obvious visually. Solution is to find out where this is happening, and mechanically prevent further contact. Joe Gwinn I kinda figure you're right , there's a place where it's worn thru . The problem is finding that spot ... if it was obvious I'd have found it by now . I've looked and felt as much of that harness as is available to check , nothing so far . I'm starting to wonder if it's in/near the fuse block , maybe where the under-dash wiring comes from behind the block . But it's raining today , and I'll be too busy to look into it further until Friday or Saturday . -- Snag Yes , I'm old and crochety - and armed . Get outta my woods ! Taping possible contact areas may help. This has been useful when there are no voltage-sensitive components at risk, like older appliances: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00975X2FY..._26725410_item Battery-powered ones are more convenient, but don't stop generating if you get shocked. Â* And at a thousand volts ... someone else on another ng posted a link to wiring diagrams , which led my eventually to a forum post that indicates that power lead goes straight and only to the radio . It comes out of the harness with the correct other wires . I have traced that harness from the fuse block to the radio and find no damage or rubs or torn wrap . My next step will be to pull the fuse block from the firewall and check for problems on the back side . Gotta pull the plug off from the rngine side first , and that ain't happenin' in the rain . -- Snag Yes , I'm old and crochety - and armed . Get outta my woods ! |
#12
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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wires are metal ...
"Terry Coombs" wrote in message
... On 9/24/2019 10:07 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote: "Terry Coombs" wrote in message ... On 9/24/2019 9:03 AM, Joseph Gwinn wrote: On Sep 24, 2019, Terry Coombs wrote (in article ): When I got my truck back from our son , lots of things that he just couldn't be bothered to fix . One thing is the radio power supply . He did tell me that the radio had "died" , turns out the fuse (in the fuse block) keeps blowing . I've got the dashboard apart enough to check the wiring harness and supply wires , can't find any cuts or anything that looks like damaged insulation ... it works just fine sittin' in the driveway , but within a few miles driving it blows the fuse . I figured it was the radio/CD player unit so I got a new one , does the same thing . I'm really puzzled by this , from the way the fuse was spattered it's got to be a dead short to ground . I think it very unlikely that the new radio/CD unit is bad - the old one did work when I replaced the fuse , for a few miles same as the new unit . This is an '86 GMC pickup , I'm hoping someone here might be aware of a known problem area that I might check ... I gotta have tunes ! It´s classic for sure. The power wire is bouncing around as you drive, and over time the wire insulation was worn through, allowing contact between copper wire and some part of the steel body.When you find the spot, it will be pretty obvious visually. Solution is to find out where this is happening, and mechanically prevent further contact. Joe Gwinn I kinda figure you're right , there's a place where it's worn thru . The problem is finding that spot ... if it was obvious I'd have found it by now . I've looked and felt as much of that harness as is available to check , nothing so far . I'm starting to wonder if it's in/near the fuse block , maybe where the under-dash wiring comes from behind the block . But it's raining today , and I'll be too busy to look into it further until Friday or Saturday . -- Snag Yes , I'm old and crochety - and armed . Get outta my woods ! Taping possible contact areas may help. This has been useful when there are no voltage-sensitive components at risk, like older appliances: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00975X2FY..._26725410_item Battery-powered ones are more convenient, but don't stop generating if you get shocked. And at a thousand volts ... someone else on another ng posted a link to wiring diagrams , which led my eventually to a forum post that indicates that power lead goes straight and only to the radio . It comes out of the harness with the correct other wires . I have traced that harness from the fuse block to the radio and find no damage or rubs or torn wrap . My next step will be to pull the fuse block from the firewall and check for problems on the back side . Gotta pull the plug off from the rngine side first , and that ain't happenin' in the rain . -- Snag Yes , I'm old and crochety - and armed . Get outta my woods ! My truck sat idle for 3 years because I couldn't locate an intermittent electrical fault, despite disassembling and cleaning all the engine connectors and replacing most of the components. I finally bought the factory engine and emission manual from Ebay and used it to find the problem with an oscilloscope. I hadn't replaced the ignition module because its mounting screws were corroded in place. When it tested questionable and I did remove it one broke and I had to make a drill jig to bore out the steel screw without ruining the aluminum intake manifold's threads. |
#13
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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wires are metal ...
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 10:44:55 -0400
"Jim Wilkins" wrote: snip I prioritize my troubleshooting sequence partly by how quick and easy the tests are with available equipment. How would you check for an intermittent speaker wire short to ground? Well Snag says it has four speakers. Maybe two in front and two in back... I would disconnect say the rear pair at the radio plug and see if it still happens. If not try vice-versa... When I was still working on radios years ago some speakers were tied directly to DC voltage/amp circuit. No output transformer and no inline capacitor. They had to be isolated from each other and ground or trouble would ensue... -- Leon Fisk Grand Rapids MI |
#14
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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wires are metal ...
Terry Coombs wrote:
When I got my truck back from our son , lots of things that he just couldn't be bothered to fix . One thing is the radio power supply . He did tell me that the radio had "died" , turns out the fuse (in the fuse block) keeps blowing . I've got the dashboard apart enough to check the wiring harness and supply wires , can't find any cuts or anything that looks like damaged insulation ... it works just fine sittin' in the driveway , but within a few miles driving it blows the fuse . I figured it was the radio/CD player unit so I got a new one , does the same thing . I'm really puzzled by this , from the way the fuse was spattered it's got to be a dead short to ground . I think it very unlikely that the new radio/CD unit is bad - the old one did work when I replaced the fuse , for a few miles same as the new unit . This is an '86 GMC pickup , I'm hoping someone here might be aware of a known problem area that I might check ... I gotta have tunes ! The Yellow wire is the main power to the radio, fed by a 15 amp fuse. Black is ground. Disconnect the radio and go for a drive, see if the fuse fails. I think it will as I suspect you have a short inside the harness. The easiest fix would be to run a bypass wire from the fuse box to the radio. If it was a constant short it would be easy to find, intermittent ones can be a bear. If you wish you can visit 2carpros.com and get the wiring diagrams, but the system isn't complicated. -- Steve W. |
#15
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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wires are metal ...
"Leon Fisk" wrote in message
... On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 10:44:55 -0400 "Jim Wilkins" wrote: snip I prioritize my troubleshooting sequence partly by how quick and easy the tests are with available equipment. How would you check for an intermittent speaker wire short to ground? Well Snag says it has four speakers. Maybe two in front and two in back... I would disconnect say the rear pair at the radio plug and see if it still happens. If not try vice-versa... When I was still working on radios years ago some speakers were tied directly to DC voltage/amp circuit. No output transformer and no inline capacitor. They had to be isolated from each other and ground or trouble would ensue... -- Leon Fisk Grand Rapids MI My electronic experience is almost all industrial and military, very little consumer. Was that an H bridge? |
#16
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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wires are metal ...
"Steve W." wrote in message
... Terry Coombs wrote: When I got my truck back from our son , lots of things that he just couldn't be bothered to fix . One thing is the radio power supply . He did tell me that the radio had "died" , turns out the fuse (in the fuse block) keeps blowing . I've got the dashboard apart enough to check the wiring harness and supply wires , can't find any cuts or anything that looks like damaged insulation ... it works just fine sittin' in the driveway , but within a few miles driving it blows the fuse . I figured it was the radio/CD player unit so I got a new one , does the same thing . I'm really puzzled by this , from the way the fuse was spattered it's got to be a dead short to ground . I think it very unlikely that the new radio/CD unit is bad - the old one did work when I replaced the fuse , for a few miles same as the new unit . This is an '86 GMC pickup , I'm hoping someone here might be aware of a known problem area that I might check ... I gotta have tunes ! The Yellow wire is the main power to the radio, fed by a 15 amp fuse. Black is ground. Disconnect the radio and go for a drive, see if the fuse fails. I think it will as I suspect you have a short inside the harness. The easiest fix would be to run a bypass wire from the fuse box to the radio. If it was a constant short it would be easy to find, intermittent ones can be a bear. If you wish you can visit 2carpros.com and get the wiring diagrams, but the system isn't complicated. -- Steve W. Can you extend the fuse holder and install a fuse with an LED indicator that could show you what driving conditions cause the fault? https://www.picoauto.com/products/br...extension-lead |
#17
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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wires are metal ...
On 9/24/2019 9:50 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:
On 9/24/2019 9:03 AM, Joseph Gwinn wrote: On Sep 24, 2019, Terry Coombs wrote (in article ): When I got my truck back from our son , lots of things that he just couldn't be bothered to fix . One thing is the radio power supply . He did tell me that the radio had "died" , turns out the fuse (in the fuse block) keeps blowing . I've got the dashboard apart enough to check the wiring harness and supply wires , can't find any cuts or anything that looks like damaged insulation ... it works just fine sittin' in the driveway , but within a few miles driving it blows the fuse . I figured it was the radio/CD player unit so I got a new one , does the same thing . I'm really puzzled by this , from the way the fuse was spattered it's got to be a dead short to ground . I think it very unlikely that the new radio/CD unit is bad - the old one did work when I replaced the fuse , for a few miles same as the new unit . This is an '86 GMC pickup , I'm hoping someone here might be aware of a known problem area that I might check ... I gotta have tunes ! It´s classic for sure. The power wire is bouncing around as you drive, and over time the wire insulation was worn through, allowing contact between copper wire and some part of the steel body.When you find the spot, it will be pretty obvious visually. Solution is to find out where this is happening, and mechanically prevent further contact. Joe Gwinn Â* I kinda figure you're right , there's a place where it's worn thru . The problem is finding that spot ... if it was obvious I'd have found it by now . I've looked and felt as much of that harness as is available to check , nothing so far . I'm starting to wonder if it's in/near the fuse block , maybe where the under-dash wiring comes from behind the block . But it's raining today , and I'll be too busy to look into it further until Friday or Saturday . If you know where it comes out of the fuse block. cut it at about 8", connect a new wire, run that up to the radio and do the same at the other end. Give yourself 8" out of the radio connector and connect your new wire. Also, I would have taken the connector loose from the radio and drove it before I got a new radio, just to verify, harness or radio. Mikek |
#18
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wires are metal ...
On 9/24/2019 4:39 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Steve W." wrote in message ... Terry Coombs wrote: When I got my truck back from our son , lots of things that he just couldn't be bothered to fix . One thing is the radio power supply . He did tell me that the radio had "died" , turns out the fuse (in the fuse block) keeps blowing . I've got the dashboard apart enough to check the wiring harness and supply wires , can't find any cuts or anything that looks like damaged insulation ... it works just fine sittin' in the driveway , but within a few miles driving it blows the fuse . I figured it was the radio/CD player unit so I got a new one , does the same thing . I'm really puzzled by this , from the way the fuse was spattered it's got to be a dead short to ground . I think it very unlikely that the new radio/CD unit is bad - the old one did work when I replaced the fuse , for a few miles same as the new unit . This is an '86 GMC pickup , I'm hoping someone here might be aware of a known problem area that I might check ... I gotta have tunes ! The Yellow wire is the main power to the radio, fed by a 15 amp fuse. Black is ground. Disconnect the radio and go for a drive, see if the fuse fails. I think it will as I suspect you have a short inside the harness. The easiest fix would be to run a bypass wire from the fuse box to the radio. If it was a constant short it would be easy to find, intermittent ones can be a bear. If you wish you can visit 2carpros.com and get the wiring diagrams, but the system isn't complicated. -- Steve W. Can you extend the fuse holder and install a fuse with an LED indicator that could show you what driving conditions cause the fault? https://www.picoauto.com/products/br...extension-lead Â* I'm thinking that Steve is right , it's inside the harness . I spent over an hour today minutely inspecting that harness for any kind of damage that might be the short . I'm tied up tomorrow and Thursday , but on Friday I'll be pulling that fuse block and probably running a new power supply wire outside the harness . As far as what conditions cause the short , that's what is weird . I have over a mile of rough (ROUGH!) unpaved road to get to the highway , the radio died a couple of miles after I hit the paved road . -- Snag Yes , I'm old and crochety - and armed . Get outta my woods ! |
#19
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wires are metal ...
On 9/24/2019 4:45 PM, amdx wrote:
On 9/24/2019 9:50 AM, Terry Coombs wrote: On 9/24/2019 9:03 AM, Joseph Gwinn wrote: On Sep 24, 2019, Terry Coombs wrote (in article ): When I got my truck back from our son , lots of things that he just couldn't be bothered to fix . One thing is the radio power supply . He did tell me that the radio had "died" , turns out the fuse (in the fuse block) keeps blowing . I've got the dashboard apart enough to check the wiring harness and supply wires , can't find any cuts or anything that looks like damaged insulation ... it works just fine sittin' in the driveway , but within a few miles driving it blows the fuse . I figured it was the radio/CD player unit so I got a new one , does the same thing . I'm really puzzled by this , from the way the fuse was spattered it's got to be a dead short to ground . I think it very unlikely that the new radio/CD unit is bad - the old one did work when I replaced the fuse , for a few miles same as the new unit . This is an '86 GMC pickup , I'm hoping someone here might be aware of a known problem area that I might check ... I gotta have tunes ! It´s classic for sure. The power wire is bouncing around as you drive, and over time the wire insulation was worn through, allowing contact between copper wire and some part of the steel body.When you find the spot, it will be pretty obvious visually. Solution is to find out where this is happening, and mechanically prevent further contact. Joe Gwinn Â*Â* I kinda figure you're right , there's a place where it's worn thru . The problem is finding that spot ... if it was obvious I'd have found it by now . I've looked and felt as much of that harness as is available to check , nothing so far . I'm starting to wonder if it's in/near the fuse block , maybe where the under-dash wiring comes from behind the block . But it's raining today , and I'll be too busy to look into it further until Friday or Saturday . Â*If you know where it comes out of the fuse block. cut it at about 8", connect a new wire, run that up to the radio and do the same at the other end. Give yourself 8" out of the radio connector and connect your new wire. Â*Also, I would have taken the connector loose from the radio and drove it before I got a new radio, just to verify, harness or radio. Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â* Mikek Â* I wanted a new radio anyway ... that one was a freebie , the back-light on the faceplate died some time ago and it has no aux inputs .. As I mentioned here somewhere , I'll be looking into doing what you suggest on Friday . Tied up until then . -- Snag Yes , I'm old and crochety - and armed . Get outta my woods ! |
#20
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wires are metal ...
"Terry Coombs" wrote in message
... ... I'm thinking that Steve is right , it's inside the harness . I spent over an hour today minutely inspecting that harness for any kind of damage that might be the short . I'm tied up tomorrow and Thursday , but on Friday I'll be pulling that fuse block and probably running a new power supply wire outside the harness . As far as what conditions cause the short , that's what is weird . I have over a mile of rough (ROUGH!) unpaved road to get to the highway , the radio died a couple of miles after I hit the paved road . -- Snag Yes , I'm old and crochety - and armed . Get outta my woods ! You might research how to make a reliable splice in vehicle wiring, since vibrating copper wire tends to work-harden and break. When engine electronics expanded in the 1970's even the engineers had trouble with connections. When I was wiring prototype electric vehicles the company had the proper expensive crimping tools. Soldering is usually bad because it can create a stress concentration where the wires exit the solder, which hastens breakage. The motor in my Maytag washing machine failed that way. I don't have a 100% perfect record of crimp-splicing wires at home with cheap consumer or worn industrial tooling and like welding it's a muscle-memory type job I'm better at doing than describing. |
#21
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wires are metal ...
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 07:58:47 -0500
Terry Coombs wrote: huge snip This is an '86 GMC pickup Went and found a manual for same or similar online (64mb): http://www.73-87chevytrucks.com/tech...ice_Manual.pdf It seems that the fuse for the radio may also do a few other things: Idle Stop Solenoid, Aux. Battery, Radio, Time Delay Relay, Emission Control Solenoid, Transmission Downshift (M40) ..... 15 amp This is from page 1331 in the manual mentioned above. Maybe it will make more sense to Snag... -- Leon Fisk Grand Rapids MI |
#22
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wires are metal ...
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 17:25:17 -0400
"Jim Wilkins" wrote: snip My electronic experience is almost all industrial and military, very little consumer. Was that an H bridge? Don't know Jim, just stuff I saw changing in the way things were being done via schematics. I posted an image here of the power output section, schematic for an old RS Cassette player in my truck: https://i.postimg.cc/nhR9tKmK/RS-Cassette-Schem1.jpg Note the voltage on the output IC's headed directly to the speakers... -- Leon Fisk Grand Rapids MI |
#23
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wires are metal ...
"Leon Fisk" wrote in message
... On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 07:58:47 -0500 Terry Coombs wrote: huge snip This is an '86 GMC pickup Went and found a manual for same or similar online (64mb): http://www.73-87chevytrucks.com/tech...ice_Manual.pdf It seems that the fuse for the radio may also do a few other things: Idle Stop Solenoid, Aux. Battery, Radio, Time Delay Relay, Emission Control Solenoid, Transmission Downshift (M40) ..... 15 amp This is from page 1331 in the manual mentioned above. Maybe it will make more sense to Snag... -- Leon Fisk Grand Rapids MI I'm a big fan of monitoring current as well as voltage when hunting for a problem, and I built analog and digital ammeters into my home solar system. https://www.ebay.com/itm/BLUE-POINT-...-/163252692497 It does read DC current, but it drifts and is noisy on a scope. |
#24
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wires are metal ...
On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 12:38:06 -0400
"Jim Wilkins" wrote: snip I'm a big fan of monitoring current as well as voltage when hunting for a problem, and I built analog and digital ammeters into my home solar system. https://www.ebay.com/itm/BLUE-POINT-...-/163252692497 It does read DC current, but it drifts and is noisy on a scope. I hear yah I originally bought my Fluke 87 to try figuring out an intermittent problem at a rural tower site. Base station was occasionally blow a fuse. The 87 has MIN/MAX capture capabilities. It didn't work out though, really need something with more inputs and logging abilities... So I started moving an added inline fused lead around, see if it blew or not. Turned out being a bad high voltage transformer, very expensive and not something any of us had ever seen go bad before. This was many years ago. The 87 hadn't been out long then. Nowadays there are some pretty nice looking meters for not so much money that would be great for stuff like that. -- Leon Fisk Grand Rapids MI |
#25
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wires are metal ...
"Leon Fisk" wrote in message
... On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 12:38:06 -0400 "Jim Wilkins" wrote: snip I'm a big fan of monitoring current as well as voltage when hunting for a problem, and I built analog and digital ammeters into my home solar system. https://www.ebay.com/itm/BLUE-POINT-...-/163252692497 It does read DC current, but it drifts and is noisy on a scope. I hear yah I originally bought my Fluke 87 to try figuring out an intermittent problem at a rural tower site. Base station was occasionally blow a fuse. The 87 has MIN/MAX capture capabilities. It didn't work out though, really need something with more inputs and logging abilities... So I started moving an added inline fused lead around, see if it blew or not. Turned out being a bad high voltage transformer, very expensive and not something any of us had ever seen go bad before. This was many years ago. The 87 hadn't been out long then. Nowadays there are some pretty nice looking meters for not so much money that would be great for stuff like that. -- Leon Fisk Grand Rapids MI I use TP4000ZCs to datalog slowly changing voltages, temperatures and currents on a laptop. https://www.amazon.com/Tekpower-TP40.../dp/B000OPDFLM The data outputs are optically isolated so the meters commons won't short different voltages together. The TP4000ZC takes primary or rechargeable AA cells and the laptop can operate at a remote site from a jumpstarter battery and inverter or auto-air adapter. The older, thicker laptops I use have PC Card and ExpressCard slots that take extra COM or USB port expanders. The setup is clumsier and slower than a good industrial datalogger but much cheaper, and has the laptop's user interface and huge storage capacity and the versatility of all the meters' input ranges. |
#26
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wires are metal ...
On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 07:34:49 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote: "Terry Coombs" wrote in message ... ... I'm thinking that Steve is right , it's inside the harness . I spent over an hour today minutely inspecting that harness for any kind of damage that might be the short . I'm tied up tomorrow and Thursday , but on Friday I'll be pulling that fuse block and probably running a new power supply wire outside the harness . As far as what conditions cause the short , that's what is weird . I have over a mile of rough (ROUGH!) unpaved road to get to the highway , the radio died a couple of miles after I hit the paved road . -- Snag Yes , I'm old and crochety - and armed . Get outta my woods ! You might research how to make a reliable splice in vehicle wiring, since vibrating copper wire tends to work-harden and break. When engine electronics expanded in the 1970's even the engineers had trouble with connections. When I was wiring prototype electric vehicles the company had the proper expensive crimping tools. Soldering is usually bad because it can create a stress concentration where the wires exit the solder, which hastens breakage. The motor in my Maytag washing machine failed that way. I don't have a 100% perfect record of crimp-splicing wires at home with cheap consumer or worn industrial tooling and like welding it's a muscle-memory type job I'm better at doing than describing. About the worst I ever ran across was a 1983 Dodge Aries where the wiring harness for door locks and power windows complete with cloth tape protected, spot welded branch connections, was routed under the floor mat insulation/padding under the drivers feet. Were else in the car could you find a greater quantity of chemical laden water during cold weather in the Great White North! |
#27
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wires are metal ...
On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 10:03:32 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote: On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 07:58:47 -0500 Terry Coombs wrote: huge snip This is an '86 GMC pickup Went and found a manual for same or similar online (64mb): http://www.73-87chevytrucks.com/tech...ice_Manual.pdf It seems that the fuse for the radio may also do a few other things: Idle Stop Solenoid, Aux. Battery, Radio, Time Delay Relay, Emission Control Solenoid, Transmission Downshift (M40) ..... 15 amp This is from page 1331 in the manual mentioned above. Maybe it will make more sense to Snag... ANd the tranny WAS just changed - I'd definitely be looking at downshift wire - - - |
#28
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wires are metal ...
Gerry wrote:
About the worst I ever ran across was a 1983 Dodge Aries where the wiring harness for door locks and power windows complete with cloth tape protected, spot welded branch connections, was routed under the floor mat insulation/padding under the drivers feet. Were else in the car could you find a greater quantity of chemical laden water during cold weather in the Great White North! Don't start looking at modern cars and trucks then. Wiring under the carpet is nothing these days. Many locate the primary control modules like the BCM or ECM under the carpets or even in pockets under the floors. Many of these are domestics and the high dollar imports. Mercedes locates various modules under the carpet and even in the channels between the door and floor. I've opened up BMWs where the ECMs are in a case below the floor that were full of water! -- Steve W. |
#29
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wires are metal ...
On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 16:12:43 -0400
"Jim Wilkins" wrote: snip I use TP4000ZCs to datalog slowly changing voltages, temperatures and currents on a laptop. https://www.amazon.com/Tekpower-TP40.../dp/B000OPDFLM The data outputs are optically isolated so the meters commons won't short different voltages together. The TP4000ZC takes primary or rechargeable AA cells and the laptop can operate at a remote site from a jumpstarter battery and inverter or auto-air adapter. The older, thicker laptops I use have PC Card and ExpressCard slots that take extra COM or USB port expanders. The setup is clumsier and slower than a good industrial datalogger but much cheaper, and has the laptop's user interface and huge storage capacity and the versatility of all the meters' input ranges. Most every time you post a link to something like that I go have a look-see I think my Fluke 87 cost around $325 in the early 90's. I'll bet the two meters would swap back and forth between their rubber armor seamlessly... I bought several used DVM's last winter than need some love. A B&K 2810 for parts or repair. I fried my 2810 around last December doing something really stupid and I miss it. Also a Fluke 37 which looks like an early 87 series functionally and a Fluke 8010A which I think needs some serious switch cleaning/repair. Maybe I'll get the urge to fix them this season ;-) -- Leon Fisk Grand Rapids MI |
#30
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wires are metal ...
On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 23:37:16 -0400
Clare Snyder wrote: On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 10:03:32 -0400, Leon Fisk wrote: On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 07:58:47 -0500 Terry Coombs wrote: huge snip [...] Went and found a manual for same or similar online (64mb): http://www.73-87chevytrucks.com/tech...ice_Manual.pdf It seems that the fuse for the radio may also do a few other things: Idle Stop Solenoid, Aux. Battery, Radio, Time Delay Relay, Emission Control Solenoid, Transmission Downshift (M40) ..... 15 amp This is from page 1331 in the manual mentioned above. Maybe it will make more sense to Snag... ANd the tranny WAS just changed - I'd definitely be looking at downshift wire - - - Maybe, the M40 is the THM400 transmission. Those trucks also used the 700R4 and THM350 which wouldn't apply then. If he does have the M40 then he could check it by turning on the key and depressing the gas pedal to the floor. See if it blows a good fuse. There was a procedure for checking the downshift function in that manual... -- Leon Fisk Grand Rapids MI |
#31
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wires are metal ...
On 9/26/2019 7:36 AM, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 23:37:16 -0400 Clare Snyder wrote: On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 10:03:32 -0400, Leon Fisk wrote: On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 07:58:47 -0500 Terry Coombs wrote: huge snip [...] Went and found a manual for same or similar online (64mb): http://www.73-87chevytrucks.com/tech...ice_Manual.pdf It seems that the fuse for the radio may also do a few other things: Idle Stop Solenoid, Aux. Battery, Radio, Time Delay Relay, Emission Control Solenoid, Transmission Downshift (M40) ..... 15 amp This is from page 1331 in the manual mentioned above. Maybe it will make more sense to Snag... ANd the tranny WAS just changed - I'd definitely be looking at downshift wire - - - Maybe, the M40 is the THM400 transmission. Those trucks also used the 700R4 and THM350 which wouldn't apply then. If he does have the M40 then he could check it by turning on the key and depressing the gas pedal to the floor. See if it blows a good fuse. There was a procedure for checking the downshift function in that manual... Â* This truck has a 700R4 ... I'll be pulling that fuse block tomorrow to see what's also hooked to that fuse - I'll also be checking those diagrams that Leon posted the links to . Lots of good leads from y'all , I've been to Memphis to take the grandson home from his 2 week visit . -- Snag Yes , I'm old and crochety - and armed . Get outta my woods ! |
#32
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wires are metal ...
On Tuesday, September 24, 2019 at 5:45:32 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
On 9/24/2019 9:50 AM, Terry Coombs wrote: On 9/24/2019 9:03 AM, Joseph Gwinn wrote: On Sep 24, 2019, Terry Coombs wrote (in article ): When I got my truck back from our son , lots of things that he just couldn't be bothered to fix . One thing is the radio power supply . He did tell me that the radio had "died" , turns out the fuse (in the fuse block) keeps blowing . I've got the dashboard apart enough to check the wiring harness and supply wires , can't find any cuts or anything that looks like damaged insulation ... it works just fine sittin' in the driveway , but within a few miles driving it blows the fuse . I figured it was the radio/CD player unit so I got a new one , does the same thing . I'm really puzzled by this , from the way the fuse was spattered it's got to be a dead short to ground . I think it very unlikely that the new radio/CD unit is bad - the old one did work when I replaced the fuse , for a few miles same as the new unit . This is an '86 GMC pickup , I'm hoping someone here might be aware of a known problem area that I might check ... I gotta have tunes ! It´s classic for sure. The power wire is bouncing around as you drive, and over time the wire insulation was worn through, allowing contact between copper wire and some part of the steel body.When you find the spot, it will be pretty obvious visually. Solution is to find out where this is happening, and mechanically prevent further contact. Joe Gwinn Â* I kinda figure you're right , there's a place where it's worn thru . The problem is finding that spot ... if it was obvious I'd have found it by now . I've looked and felt as much of that harness as is available to check , nothing so far . I'm starting to wonder if it's in/near the fuse block , maybe where the under-dash wiring comes from behind the block . But it's raining today , and I'll be too busy to look into it further until Friday or Saturday . If you know where it comes out of the fuse block. cut it at about 8", connect a new wire, run that up to the radio and do the same at the other end. Give yourself 8" out of the radio connector and connect your new wire. Also, I would have taken the connector loose from the radio and drove it before I got a new radio, just to verify, harness or radio. Mikek Good plan, but... After cutting the wire a few inches out of the fuse block, I'd drive a few miles to make sure it doesn't blow the fuse. There's got to be some version of Murphy's Law that says the short will be in the wire you didn't check separately. Also, a multimeter with a continuity beeper could be a friend here. Hook it up between the supply wire and ground (fuse pulled first) and then wiggle all the wires. When it beeps, you've found your short. |
#33
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wires are metal ...
On 9/28/2019 9:15 AM, rangerssuck wrote:
On Tuesday, September 24, 2019 at 5:45:32 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote: On 9/24/2019 9:50 AM, Terry Coombs wrote: On 9/24/2019 9:03 AM, Joseph Gwinn wrote: On Sep 24, 2019, Terry Coombs wrote (in article ): When I got my truck back from our son , lots of things that he just couldn't be bothered to fix . One thing is the radio power supply . He did tell me that the radio had "died" , turns out the fuse (in the fuse block) keeps blowing . I've got the dashboard apart enough to check the wiring harness and supply wires , can't find any cuts or anything that looks like damaged insulation ... it works just fine sittin' in the driveway , but within a few miles driving it blows the fuse . I figured it was the radio/CD player unit so I got a new one , does the same thing . I'm really puzzled by this , from the way the fuse was spattered it's got to be a dead short to ground . I think it very unlikely that the new radio/CD unit is bad - the old one did work when I replaced the fuse , for a few miles same as the new unit . This is an '86 GMC pickup , I'm hoping someone here might be aware of a known problem area that I might check ... I gotta have tunes ! It´s classic for sure. The power wire is bouncing around as you drive, and over time the wire insulation was worn through, allowing contact between copper wire and some part of the steel body.When you find the spot, it will be pretty obvious visually. Solution is to find out where this is happening, and mechanically prevent further contact. Joe Gwinn Â* I kinda figure you're right , there's a place where it's worn thru . The problem is finding that spot ... if it was obvious I'd have found it by now . I've looked and felt as much of that harness as is available to check , nothing so far . I'm starting to wonder if it's in/near the fuse block , maybe where the under-dash wiring comes from behind the block |
#34
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wires are metal ...
On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 14:58:24 -0500, gray_wolf
wrote: On 9/28/2019 9:15 AM, rangerssuck wrote: On Tuesday, September 24, 2019 at 5:45:32 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote: On 9/24/2019 9:50 AM, Terry Coombs wrote: On 9/24/2019 9:03 AM, Joseph Gwinn wrote: On Sep 24, 2019, Terry Coombs wrote (in article ): When I got my truck back from our son , lots of things that he just couldn't be bothered to fix . One thing is the radio power supply . He did tell me that the radio had "died" , turns out the fuse (in the fuse block) keeps blowing . I've got the dashboard apart enough to check the wiring harness and supply wires , can't find any cuts or anything that looks like damaged insulation ... it works just fine sittin' in the driveway , but within a few miles driving it blows the fuse . I figured it was the radio/CD player unit so I got a new one , does the same thing . I'm really puzzled by this , from the way the fuse was spattered it's got to be a dead short to ground . I think it very unlikely that the new radio/CD unit is bad - the old one did work when I replaced the fuse , for a few miles same as the new unit . This is an '86 GMC pickup , I'm hoping someone here might be aware of a known problem area that I might check ... I gotta have tunes ! It´s classic for sure. The power wire is bouncing around as you drive, and over time the wire insulation was worn through, allowing contact between copper wire and some part of the steel body.When you find the spot, it will be pretty obvious visually. Solution is to find out where this is happening, and mechanically prevent further contact. Joe Gwinn * I kinda figure you're right , there's a place where it's worn thru . The problem is finding that spot ... if it was obvious I'd have found it by now . I've looked and felt as much of that harness as is available to check , nothing so far . I'm starting to wonder if it's in/near the fuse block , maybe where the under-dash wiring comes from behind the block . But it's raining today , and I'll be too busy to look into it further until Friday or Saturday . If you know where it comes out of the fuse block. cut it at about 8", connect a new wire, run that up to the radio and do the same at the other end. Give yourself 8" out of the radio connector and connect your new wire. Also, I would have taken the connector loose from the radio and drove it before I got a new radio, just to verify, harness or radio. Mikek Good plan, but... After cutting the wire a few inches out of the fuse block, I'd drive a few miles to make sure it doesn't blow the fuse. There's got to be some version of Murphy's Law that says the short will be in the wire you didn't check separately. Also, a multimeter with a continuity beeper could be a friend here. Hook it up between the supply wire and ground (fuse pulled first) and then wiggle all the wires. When it beeps, you've found your short. Is the radio the only thing that's on that fuse? I'd run a new wire with an inline fuse from the radio to the battery and see what happens. Are you sure the problem isn't in the radio? As noted on another group the trasnmission torqueconverter lockup runs off that fuse too. Since the transmission swap was a "shade tree job" the chances of it being related to the transmission replacement are roughly 1000% - - - - - - - When the controls call for TC lockup the fuse blows. |
#35
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wires are metal ...
"Clare Snyder" wrote in message
... As noted on another group the trasnmission torqueconverter lockup runs off that fuse too. Since the transmission swap was a "shade tree job" the chances of it being related to the transmission replacement are roughly 1000% - - - - - - - When the controls call for TC lockup the fuse blows. On my Honda the TC lockup occurs only in the highest gears, at constant speed on a level road, an easy condition to test with the radio unplugged. I can tell when it's locked because the speedo and tach needles move together. |
#36
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wires are metal ...
On 9/28/2019 3:34 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 14:58:24 -0500, gray_wolf wrote: On 9/28/2019 9:15 AM, rangerssuck wrote: On Tuesday, September 24, 2019 at 5:45:32 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote: On 9/24/2019 9:50 AM, Terry Coombs wrote: On 9/24/2019 9:03 AM, Joseph Gwinn wrote: On Sep 24, 2019, Terry Coombs wrote (in article ): When I got my truck back from our son , lots of things that he just couldn't be bothered to fix . One thing is the radio power supply . He did tell me that the radio had "died" , turns out the fuse (in the fuse block) keeps blowing . I've got the dashboard apart enough to check the wiring harness and supply wires , can't find any cuts or anything that looks like damaged insulation ... it works just fine sittin' in the driveway , but within a few miles driving it blows the fuse . I figured it was the radio/CD player unit so I got a new one , does the same thing . I'm really puzzled by this , from the way the fuse was spattered it's got to be a dead short to ground . I think it very unlikely that the new radio/CD unit is bad - the old one did work when I replaced the fuse , for a few miles same as the new unit . This is an '86 GMC pickup , I'm hoping someone here might be aware of a known problem area that I might check ... I gotta have tunes ! It´s classic for sure. The power wire is bouncing around as you drive, and over time the wire insulation was worn through, allowing contact between copper wire and some part of the steel body.When you find the spot, it will be pretty obvious visually. Solution is to find out where this is happening, and mechanically prevent further contact. Joe Gwinn Â* I kinda figure you're right , there's a place where it's worn thru . The problem is finding that spot ... if it was obvious I'd have found it by now . I've looked and felt as much of that harness as is available to check , nothing so far . I'm starting to wonder if it's in/near the fuse block , maybe where the under-dash wiring comes from behind the block . But it's raining today , and I'll be too busy to look into it further until Friday or Saturday . If you know where it comes out of the fuse block. cut it at about 8", connect a new wire, run that up to the radio and do the same at the other end. Give yourself 8" out of the radio connector and connect your new wire. Also, I would have taken the connector loose from the radio and drove it before I got a new radio, just to verify, harness or radio. Mikek Good plan, but... After cutting the wire a few inches out of the fuse block, I'd drive a few miles to make sure it doesn't blow the fuse. There's got to be some version of Murphy's Law that says the short will be in the wire you didn't check separately. Also, a multimeter with a continuity beeper could be a friend here. Hook it up between the supply wire and ground (fuse pulled first) and then wiggle all the wires. When it beeps, you've found your short. Is the radio the only thing that's on that fuse? I'd run a new wire with an inline fuse from the radio to the battery and see what happens. Are you sure the problem isn't in the radio? As noted on another group the trasnmission torqueconverter lockup runs off that fuse too. Since the transmission swap was a "shade tree job" the chances of it being related to the transmission replacement are roughly 1000% - - - - - - - When the controls call for TC lockup the fuse blows. Â* And Clare found it , and I just a few minutes ago verified that this is (with 99.99% assurance) the problem . I'll get under there tomorrow and find where it's grounding , but I did a road test with speeds high enough to call for lockup with that wire unplugged and the fuse is still intact . The internet truly is an information highway . I would never have known that device was powered by the same fuse as the radio . -- Snag Yes , I'm old and crochety - and armed . Get outta my woods ! |
#37
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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wires are metal ...
On 9/28/2019 4:27 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
On 9/28/2019 3:34 PM, Clare Snyder wrote: On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 14:58:24 -0500, gray_wolf wrote: On 9/28/2019 9:15 AM, rangerssuck wrote: On Tuesday, September 24, 2019 at 5:45:32 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote: On 9/24/2019 9:50 AM, Terry Coombs wrote: On 9/24/2019 9:03 AM, Joseph Gwinn wrote: On Sep 24, 2019, Terry Coombs wrote (in article ): When I got my truck back from our son , lots of things that he just couldn't be bothered to fix . One thing is the radio power supply . He did tell me that the radio had "died" , turns out the fuse (in the fuse block) keeps blowing . I've got the dashboard apart enough to check the wiring harness and supply wires , can't find any cuts or anything that looks like damaged insulation ... it works just fine sittin' in the driveway , but within a few miles driving it blows the fuse . I figured it was the radio/CD player unit so I got a new one , does the same thing . I'm really puzzled by this , from the way the fuse was spattered it's got to be a dead short to ground . I think it very unlikely that the new radio/CD unit is bad - the old one did work when I replaced the fuse , for a few miles same as the new unit . This is an '86 GMC pickup , I'm hoping someone here might be aware of a known problem area that I might check ... I gotta have tunes ! It´s classic for sure. The power wire is bouncing around as you drive, and over time the wire insulation was worn through, allowing contact between copper wire and some part of the steel body.When you find the spot, it will be pretty obvious visually. Solution is to find out where this is happening, and mechanically prevent further contact. Joe Gwinn Â*Â* Â* I kinda figure you're right , there's a place where it's worn thru . The problem is finding that spot ... if it was obvious I'd have found it by now . I've looked and felt as much of that harness as is available to check , nothing so far . I'm starting to wonder if it's in/near the fuse block , maybe where the under-dash wiring comes from behind the block . But it's raining today , and I'll be too busy to look into it further until Friday or Saturday . Â*Â*Â* If you know where it comes out of the fuse block. cut it at about 8", connect a new wire, run that up to the radio and do the same at the other end. Give yourself 8" out of the radio connector and connect your new wire. Â*Â*Â* Also, I would have taken the connector loose from the radio and drove it before I got a new radio, just to verify, harness or radio. Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â* Mikek Good plan, but... After cutting the wire a few inches out of the fuse block, I'd drive a few miles to make sure it doesn't blow the fuse. There's got to be some version of Murphy's Law that says the short will be in the wire you didn't check separately. Also, a multimeter with a continuity beeper could be a friend here. Hook it up between the supply wire and ground (fuse pulled first) and then wiggle all the wires. When it beeps, you've found your short. Is the radio the only thing that's on that fuse? I'd run a new wire with an inline fuse from the radio to the battery and see what happens. Are you sure the problem isn't in the radio? Â* As noted on another group the trasnmission torqueconverter lockup runs off that fuse too. Since the transmission swap was a "shade tree job" the chances of it being related to the transmission replacement are roughly 1000% - - - - - - - When the controls call for TC lockup the fuse blows. Â* And Clare found it , and I just a few minutes ago verified that this is (with 99.99% assurance) the problem . I'll get under there tomorrow and find where it's grounding , but I did a road test with speeds high enough to call for lockup with that wire unplugged and the fuse is still intact . The internet truly is an information highway . I would never have known that device was powered by the same fuse as the radio . There are times when having a complete wiring diagram can be a big help. :-) What's on the load side of the TC lockup output A solenoid or some such? shorted? |
#38
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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wires are metal ...
On 9/28/2019 6:39 PM, gray_wolf wrote:
On 9/28/2019 4:27 PM, Terry Coombs wrote: On 9/28/2019 3:34 PM, Clare Snyder wrote: On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 14:58:24 -0500, gray_wolf wrote: On 9/28/2019 9:15 AM, rangerssuck wrote: On Tuesday, September 24, 2019 at 5:45:32 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote: On 9/24/2019 9:50 AM, Terry Coombs wrote: On 9/24/2019 9:03 AM, Joseph Gwinn wrote: On Sep 24, 2019, Terry Coombs wrote (in article ): When I got my truck back from our son , lots of things that he just couldn't be bothered to fix . One thing is the radio power supply . He did tell me that the radio had "died" , turns out the fuse (in the fuse block) keeps blowing . I've got the dashboard apart enough to check the wiring harness and supply wires , can't find any cuts or anything that looks like damaged insulation ... it works just fine sittin' in the driveway , but within a few miles driving it blows the fuse . I figured it was the radio/CD player unit so I got a new one , does the same thing . I'm really puzzled by this , from the way the fuse was spattered it's got to be a dead short to ground . I think it very unlikely that the new radio/CD unit is bad - the old one did work when I replaced the fuse , for a few miles same as the new unit . This is an '86 GMC pickup , I'm hoping someone here might be aware of a known problem area that I might check ... I gotta have tunes ! It´s classic for sure. The power wire is bouncing around as you drive, and over time the wire insulation was worn through, allowing contact between copper wire and some part of the steel body.When you find the spot, it will be pretty obvious visually. Solution is to find out where this is happening, and mechanically prevent further contact. Joe Gwinn Â*Â* Â* I kinda figure you're right , there's a place where it's worn thru . The problem is finding that spot ... if it was obvious I'd have found it by now . I've looked and felt as much of that harness as is available to check , nothing so far . I'm starting to wonder if it's in/near the fuse block , maybe where the under-dash wiring comes from behind the block . But it's raining today , and I'll be too busy to look into it further until Friday or Saturday . Â*Â*Â* If you know where it comes out of the fuse block. cut it at about 8", connect a new wire, run that up to the radio and do the same at the other end. Give yourself 8" out of the radio connector and connect your new wire. Â*Â*Â* Also, I would have taken the connector loose from the radio and drove it before I got a new radio, just to verify, harness or radio. Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â* Mikek Good plan, but... After cutting the wire a few inches out of the fuse block, I'd drive a few miles to make sure it doesn't blow the fuse. There's got to be some version of Murphy's Law that says the short will be in the wire you didn't check separately. Also, a multimeter with a continuity beeper could be a friend here. Hook it up between the supply wire and ground (fuse pulled first) and then wiggle all the wires. When it beeps, you've found your short. Is the radio the only thing that's on that fuse? I'd run a new wire with an inline fuse from the radio to the battery and see what happens. Are you sure the problem isn't in the radio? Â* As noted on another group the trasnmission torqueconverter lockup runs off that fuse too. Since the transmission swap was a "shade tree job" the chances of it being related to the transmission replacement are roughly 1000% - - - - - - - When the controls call for TC lockup the fuse blows. Â*Â* And Clare found it , and I just a few minutes ago verified that this is (with 99.99% assurance) the problem . I'll get under there tomorrow and find where it's grounding , but I did a road test with speeds high enough to call for lockup with that wire unplugged and the fuse is still intact . The internet truly is an information highway . I would never have known that device was powered by the same fuse as the radio . There are times when having a complete wiring diagram can be a big help. :-) What's on the load side of the TC lockup outputÂ* A solenoid or some such? shorted? Â* Well , so far I have traced the brown/white wire across the steering column to where it plugs in to a device - probably a relay of some kind - mounted on the steering column . It comes out on a blue which goes thru the firewall alone then to a small bundle that heads towards the tranny . My guess is that the blue wire plugs (or is supposed to) into the lockup solenoid , and is either unhooked or damaged and grounded . I'll find out in the morning . My wife has resigned herself to me keeping this truck , but that don't mean she's happy about it . I've also got a set of 3.42:1 gears for the rear axle , the 2.73's just don't get it up here in the "mountains" - I grew up in the "real" mountains , northern Utahaha at the foot of the Wasatch Front . -- Snag Yes , I'm old and crochety - and armed . Get outta my woods ! |
#39
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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wires are metal ...
On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 18:39:40 -0500, gray_wolf
wrote: On 9/28/2019 4:27 PM, Terry Coombs wrote: On 9/28/2019 3:34 PM, Clare Snyder wrote: On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 14:58:24 -0500, gray_wolf wrote: On 9/28/2019 9:15 AM, rangerssuck wrote: On Tuesday, September 24, 2019 at 5:45:32 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote: On 9/24/2019 9:50 AM, Terry Coombs wrote: On 9/24/2019 9:03 AM, Joseph Gwinn wrote: On Sep 24, 2019, Terry Coombs wrote (in article ): When I got my truck back from our son , lots of things that he just couldn't be bothered to fix . One thing is the radio power supply . He did tell me that the radio had "died" , turns out the fuse (in the fuse block) keeps blowing . I've got the dashboard apart enough to check the wiring harness and supply wires , can't find any cuts or anything that looks like damaged insulation ... it works just fine sittin' in the driveway , but within a few miles driving it blows the fuse . I figured it was the radio/CD player unit so I got a new one , does the same thing . I'm really puzzled by this , from the way the fuse was spattered it's got to be a dead short to ground . I think it very unlikely that the new radio/CD unit is bad - the old one did work when I replaced the fuse , for a few miles same as the new unit . This is an '86 GMC pickup , I'm hoping someone here might be aware of a known problem area that I might check ... I gotta have tunes ! It´s classic for sure. The power wire is bouncing around as you drive, and over time the wire insulation was worn through, allowing contact between copper wire and some part of the steel body.When you find the spot, it will be pretty obvious visually. Solution is to find out where this is happening, and mechanically prevent further contact. Joe Gwinn ** * I kinda figure you're right , there's a place where it's worn thru . The problem is finding that spot ... if it was obvious I'd have found it by now . I've looked and felt as much of that harness as is available to check , nothing so far . I'm starting to wonder if it's in/near the fuse block , maybe where the under-dash wiring comes from behind the block . But it's raining today , and I'll be too busy to look into it further until Friday or Saturday . *** If you know where it comes out of the fuse block. cut it at about 8", connect a new wire, run that up to the radio and do the same at the other end. Give yourself 8" out of the radio connector and connect your new wire. *** Also, I would have taken the connector loose from the radio and drove it before I got a new radio, just to verify, harness or radio. ***************************** Mikek Good plan, but... After cutting the wire a few inches out of the fuse block, I'd drive a few miles to make sure it doesn't blow the fuse. There's got to be some version of Murphy's Law that says the short will be in the wire you didn't check separately. Also, a multimeter with a continuity beeper could be a friend here. Hook it up between the supply wire and ground (fuse pulled first) and then wiggle all the wires. When it beeps, you've found your short. Is the radio the only thing that's on that fuse? I'd run a new wire with an inline fuse from the radio to the battery and see what happens. Are you sure the problem isn't in the radio? * As noted on another group the trasnmission torqueconverter lockup runs off that fuse too. Since the transmission swap was a "shade tree job" the chances of it being related to the transmission replacement are roughly 1000% - - - - - - - When the controls call for TC lockup the fuse blows. * And Clare found it , and I just a few minutes ago verified that this is (with 99.99% assurance) the problem . I'll get under there tomorrow and find where it's grounding , but I did a road test with speeds high enough to call for lockup with that wire unplugged and the fuse is still intact . The internet truly is an information highway . I would never have known that device was powered by the same fuse as the radio . There are times when having a complete wiring diagram can be a big help. :-) What's on the load side of the TC lockup output A solenoid or some such? shorted? POSSIBLY a shorted solenoid valve - but most likely a pinched wire from the transmission changeover. - possibly even just the wires crossed sothe power goes directly to ground instead of through the solenoid coil. You'd be surprised at what a shade tree mechanic is capable of screwing up. (and I've seen some real "shade tree" mechanics working in real shops too - - - - - ) Had one guy collect a paycheck from me for a couple months before I had to let him go. Saying he "worked for me" would have been stretching the truth. I'd bend over and put the knuckle of my thumb against the ground and say "that's Dave". So lazy he was always standing around with his thumb uph his arse - and so dumb he didn't know his arse from a hole inthe ground. It took longer to clear up his comebacks than the length of time he "worked for" me. |
#40
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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wires are metal ...
On 9/28/2019 8:04 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 18:39:40 -0500, gray_wolf wrote: On 9/28/2019 4:27 PM, Terry Coombs wrote: On 9/28/2019 3:34 PM, Clare Snyder wrote: On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 14:58:24 -0500, gray_wolf wrote: On 9/28/2019 9:15 AM, rangerssuck wrote: On Tuesday, September 24, 2019 at 5:45:32 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote: On 9/24/2019 9:50 AM, Terry Coombs wrote: On 9/24/2019 9:03 AM, Joseph Gwinn wrote: On Sep 24, 2019, Terry Coombs wrote (in article ): When I got my truck back from our son , lots of things that he just couldn't be bothered to fix . One thing is the radio power supply . He did tell me that the radio had "died" , turns out the fuse (in the fuse block) keeps blowing . I've got the dashboard apart enough to check the wiring harness and supply wires , can't find any cuts or anything that looks like damaged insulation ... it works just fine sittin' in the driveway , but within a few miles driving it blows the fuse . I figured it was the radio/CD player unit so I got a new one , does the same thing . I'm really puzzled by this , from the way the fuse was spattered it's got to be a dead short to ground . I think it very unlikely that the new radio/CD unit is bad - the old one did work when I replaced the fuse , for a few miles same as the new unit . This is an '86 GMC pickup , I'm hoping someone here might be aware of a known problem area that I might check ... I gotta have tunes ! It´s classic for sure. The power wire is bouncing around as you drive, and over time the wire insulation was worn through, allowing contact between copper wire and some part of the steel body.When you find the spot, it will be pretty obvious visually. Solution is to find out where this is happening, and mechanically prevent further contact. Joe Gwinn Â*Â* Â* I kinda figure you're right , there's a place where it's worn thru . The problem is finding that spot ... if it was obvious I'd have found it by now . I've looked and felt as much of that harness as is available to check , nothing so far . I'm starting to wonder if it's in/near the fuse block , maybe where the under-dash wiring comes from behind the block . But it's raining today , and I'll be too busy to look into it further until Friday or Saturday . Â*Â*Â* If you know where it comes out of the fuse block. cut it at about 8", connect a new wire, run that up to the radio and do the same at the other end. Give yourself 8" out of the radio connector and connect your new wire. Â*Â*Â* Also, I would have taken the connector loose from the radio and drove it before I got a new radio, just to verify, harness or radio. Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â*Â* Â*Â*Â*Â* Mikek Good plan, but... After cutting the wire a few inches out of the fuse block, I'd drive a few miles to make sure it doesn't blow the fuse. There's got to be some version of Murphy's Law that says the short will be in the wire you didn't check separately. Also, a multimeter with a continuity beeper could be a friend here. Hook it up between the supply wire and ground (fuse pulled first) and then wiggle all the wires. When it beeps, you've found your short. Is the radio the only thing that's on that fuse? I'd run a new wire with an inline fuse from the radio to the battery and see what happens. Are you sure the problem isn't in the radio? Â* As noted on another group the trasnmission torqueconverter lockup runs off that fuse too. Since the transmission swap was a "shade tree job" the chances of it being related to the transmission replacement are roughly 1000% - - - - - - - When the controls call for TC lockup the fuse blows. Â* And Clare found it , and I just a few minutes ago verified that this is (with 99.99% assurance) the problem . I'll get under there tomorrow and find where it's grounding , but I did a road test with speeds high enough to call for lockup with that wire unplugged and the fuse is still intact . The internet truly is an information highway . I would never have known that device was powered by the same fuse as the radio . There are times when having a complete wiring diagram can be a big help. :-) What's on the load side of the TC lockup output A solenoid or some such? shorted? POSSIBLY a shorted solenoid valve - but most likely a pinched wire from the transmission changeover. - possibly even just the wires crossed sothe power goes directly to ground instead of through the solenoid coil. You'd be surprised at what a shade tree mechanic is capable of screwing up. (and I've seen some real "shade tree" mechanics working in real shops too - - - - - ) Had one guy collect a paycheck from me for a couple months before I had to let him go. Saying he "worked for me" would have been stretching the truth. I'd bend over and put the knuckle of my thumb against the ground and say "that's Dave". So lazy he was always standing around with his thumb uph his arse - and so dumb he didn't know his arse from a hole inthe ground. It took longer to clear up his comebacks than the length of time he "worked for" me. I know the feeling. In a past life I was the service manager of a large company. good help was hard to find and I was well aware of some peoples limitations. Lack of education? How do you educate a brick? |
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