On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 21:29:40 -0500, gray_wolf
wrote:

On 9/28/2019 8:04 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 18:39:40 -0500, gray_wolf
wrote:

On 9/28/2019 4:27 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
On 9/28/2019 3:34 PM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 14:58:24 -0500, gray_wolf
wrote:

On 9/28/2019 9:15 AM, rangerssuck wrote:
On Tuesday, September 24, 2019 at 5:45:32 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
On 9/24/2019 9:50 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:
On 9/24/2019 9:03 AM, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
On Sep 24, 2019, Terry Coombs wrote
(in article ):

When I got my truck back from our son , lots of things that he just
couldn't be bothered to fix . One thing is the radio power supply . He
did tell me that the radio had "died" , turns out the fuse (in the fuse
block) keeps blowing . I've got the dashboard apart enough to check the
wiring harness and supply wires , can't find any cuts or anything that
looks like damaged insulation ... it works just fine sittin' in the
driveway , but within a few miles driving it blows the fuse . I figured
it was the radio/CD player unit so I got a new one , does the same thing
. I'm really puzzled by this , from the way the fuse was spattered it's
got to be a dead short to ground . I think it very unlikely that the new
radio/CD unit is bad - the old one did work when I replaced the fuse ,
for a few miles same as the new unit . This is an '86 GMC pickup , I'm
hoping someone here might be aware of a known problem area that I might
check ... I gotta have tunes !
It´s classic for sure. The power wire is bouncing around as you drive,
and
over time the wire insulation was worn through, allowing contact between
copper wire and some part of the steel body.When you find the spot, it
will
be pretty obvious visually.

Solution is to find out where this is happening, and mechanically prevent
further contact.

Joe Gwinn

** * I kinda figure you're right , there's a place where it's worn thru .
The problem is finding that spot ... if it was obvious I'd have found it
by now . I've looked and felt as much of that harness as is available to
check , nothing so far . I'm starting to wonder if it's in/near the fuse
block , maybe where the under-dash wiring comes from behind the block .
But it's raining today , and I'll be too busy to look into it further
until Friday or Saturday .

*** If you know where it comes out of the fuse block. cut it at about 8",
connect a new wire, run that up to the radio and do the same at the
other end. Give yourself 8" out of the radio connector and connect your
new wire.
*** Also, I would have taken the connector loose from the radio and drove
it before I got a new radio, just to verify, harness or radio.
***************************** Mikek
Good plan, but... After cutting the wire a few inches out of the fuse block,
I'd drive a few miles to make sure it doesn't blow the fuse. There's got to
be some version of Murphy's Law that says the short will be in the wire you
didn't check separately.

Also, a multimeter with a continuity beeper could be a friend here. Hook it
up between the supply wire and ground (fuse pulled first) and then wiggle
all the wires. When it beeps, you've found your short.

Is the radio the only thing that's on that fuse? I'd run a new wire with an
inline fuse from the radio to the battery and see what happens. Are you sure the
problem isn't in the radio?
* As noted on another group the trasnmission torqueconverter lockup
runs off that fuse too. Since the transmission swap was a "shade tree
job" the chances of it being related to the transmission replacement
are roughly 1000% - - - - - - - When the controls call for TC lockup
the fuse blows.

* And Clare found it , and I just a few minutes ago verified that this is (with
99.99% assurance) the problem . I'll get under there tomorrow and find where
it's grounding , but I did a road test with speeds high enough to call for
lockup with that wire unplugged and the fuse is still intact . The internet
truly is an information highway . I would never have known that device was
powered by the same fuse as the radio .


There are times when having a complete wiring diagram can be a big help. :-)
What's on the load side of the TC lockup output A solenoid or some such? shorted?

POSSIBLY a shorted solenoid valve - but most likely a pinched wire
from the transmission changeover. - possibly even just the wires
crossed sothe power goes directly to ground instead of through the
solenoid coil. You'd be surprised at what a shade tree mechanic is
capable of screwing up. (and I've seen some real "shade tree"
mechanics working in real shops too - - - - - )

Had one guy collect a paycheck from me for a couple months before I
had to let him go. Saying he "worked for me" would have been
stretching the truth. I'd bend over and put the knuckle of my thumb
against the ground and say "that's Dave". So lazy he was always
standing around with his thumb uph his arse - and so dumb he didn't
know his arse from a hole inthe ground. It took longer to clear up his
comebacks than the length of time he "worked for" me.



I know the feeling. In a past life I was the service manager of a large company.
good help was hard to find and I was well aware of some peoples limitations.
Lack of education? How do you educate a brick?


A brick? This guy was thick as a 12 foot 2X4 - end on.
Had another one - an army brat who knew it all. Couldn't tell him
anything.If I said something was white he swore it was black. Would
never do what he was asked - and telling him was no more effective. I
finally called him into the office and told him it was obvious he
didn't like working for me, and one or the other of us was going to
have to leave. He had the "balls" to say "it won't be me". I handed
him 2 weeks pay and told him to back his car up to the door and load
his tools. I personally went out and helped the other guys load them
into his car.

And "Dave" had the gall to use me as a reference for his next job - I
told the prospective employer they should "consider themselves very
fortunate if they could get the man to work for them" - He didn't get
the job - - -

On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 19:07:56 -0500
Terry Coombs wrote:

snip
Well , so far I have traced the brown/white wire across the steering
column to where it plugs in to a device - probably a relay of some kind
- mounted on the steering column . It comes out on a blue which goes
thru the firewall alone then to a small bundle that heads towards the
tranny . My guess is that the blue wire plugs (or is supposed to) into
the lockup solenoid , and is either unhooked or damaged and grounded .
I'll find out in the morning .

Mines an 1982 K10 4x4 with same tranny...

The wire goes to a switch on the brake pedal, out to a switch on the
throttle and then to the tranny. Stepping on the brake or not enough
throttle unlocks the torque converter clutch.

On my truck the torque can lock in second gear if all the above
conditions are met. i.e. enough throttle, no brake and going fast
enough. However if you are in 4x4 it will only lock in overdrive/4th
gear. I added a switch early on to make it think it was in 4x4 so it
will only lockup in overdrive while in 2 wheel drive.

This was in 1982, maybe they wised up and did my hack to all later on.
That 700R4 is not a real solid, heavy duty tranny. Never should have
been used in trucks...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

On 9/29/2019 7:30 AM, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Sat, 28 Sep 2019 19:07:56 -0500
Terry Coombs wrote:

snip
Well , so far I have traced the brown/white wire across the steering
column to where it plugs in to a device - probably a relay of some kind
- mounted on the steering column . It comes out on a blue which goes
thru the firewall alone then to a small bundle that heads towards the
tranny . My guess is that the blue wire plugs (or is supposed to) into
the lockup solenoid , and is either unhooked or damaged and grounded .
I'll find out in the morning .
Mines an 1982 K10 4x4 with same tranny...

The wire goes to a switch on the brake pedal, out to a switch on the
throttle and then to the tranny. Stepping on the brake or not enough
throttle unlocks the torque converter clutch.

On my truck the torque can lock in second gear if all the above
conditions are met. i.e. enough throttle, no brake and going fast
enough. However if you are in 4x4 it will only lock in overdrive/4th
gear. I added a switch early on to make it think it was in 4x4 so it
will only lockup in overdrive while in 2 wheel drive.

This was in 1982, maybe they wised up and did my hack to all later on.
That 700R4 is not a real solid, heavy duty tranny. Never should have
been used in trucks...


Â* I'll be opening up the harness wrap in strategic locations to
determine the exact path that blue wire takes . That switch on the
column may very well be a switch associated with the brake . One test I
thought of last night while trying to get to sleep is to disconnect the
plug on the column and see if the blue wire is grounded . I've never had
to deal with wiring faults that much , this has been a really
frustrating experience .

--
Snag
Yes , I'm old
and crochety - and armed .
Get outta my woods !

On Sun, 29 Sep 2019 08:27:46 -0500
Terry Coombs wrote:

One test I
thought of last night while trying to get to sleep is to disconnect the
plug on the column and see if the blue wire is grounded .

A word of caution, pretty sure the control for the torque converter
lockup goes to a solenoid in the transmission. So it will show a very
low ohm value that looks like a short circuit to a meter. It should
draw about 0.5 amps when working.

If I recall correctly the wire harness plugs in from the top on the
drivers side of the transmission. Maybe 6-8 inches farther to the rear
from the shifter linkage. Check that it was plugged in correctly and
that cable isn't pinched somewhere going towards the engine...

Big ass picture here showing the cable & connector in white:

http://www.rowand.net/Shop/Tech/imag...Pictures12.jpg

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

"Leon Fisk" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 29 Sep 2019 08:27:46 -0500
Terry Coombs wrote:

One test I
thought of last night while trying to get to sleep is to disconnect
the
plug on the column and see if the blue wire is grounded .

A word of caution, pretty sure the control for the torque converter
lockup goes to a solenoid in the transmission. So it will show a
very
low ohm value that looks like a short circuit to a meter. It should
draw about 0.5 amps when working.


That would be around 24 Ohms, which should show clearly on a decent
digital meter. Subtract out the reading with the probes shorted

Schematic "Power Side Control #3" indicates that pin D will short to
ground when the TCC Signal Switch operates. If the plug can be
rotated, could pin D have been misconnected to pin B that brings power
for the solenoid? The solenoid pin should show up as a low but not
zero resistance to the case.

On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 07:58:47 -0500, Terry Coombs
wrote:

** When I got my truck back from our son , lots of things that he just
couldn't be bothered to fix . One thing is the radio power supply . He
did tell me that the radio had "died" , turns out the fuse (in the fuse
block) keeps blowing . I've got the dashboard apart enough to check the
wiring harness and supply wires , can't find any cuts or anything that
looks like damaged insulation ... it works just fine sittin' in the
driveway , but within a few miles driving it blows the fuse . I figured
it was the radio/CD player unit so I got a new one , does the same thing
. I'm really puzzled by this , from the way the fuse was spattered it's
got to be a dead short to ground . I think it very unlikely that the new
radio/CD unit is bad - the old one did work when I replaced the fuse ,
for a few miles same as the new unit . This is an '86 GMC pickup , I'm
hoping someone here might be aware of a known problem area that I might
check ... I gotta have tunes !

Check for any extra connections between the battery and radio. It
could be a loose connection. You'll find your extra amperage going to
warm that connection.
Alt1: Run a separate fuse to a switched hot.
Alt2: earphones and your phone/MP3 player are a cheap and easy pair.

--
There is s no such thing as a hyphenated American who is
a good American.* The only man who is a good American is
the man who is an American and nothing else.* We are a
nation, not a hodge-podge of foreign nationalities.* We
are a people, and not a polyglot boarding house.
--Theodore Roosevelt

On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 13:03:21 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Terry Coombs" wrote in message
--snip--
My truck sat idle for 3 years because I couldn't locate an
intermittent electrical fault, despite disassembling and cleaning all
the engine connectors and replacing most of the components. I finally
bought the factory engine and emission manual from Ebay and used it to
find the problem with an oscilloscope.

I hadn't replaced the ignition module because its mounting screws were
corroded in place. When it tested questionable and I did remove it one
broke and I had to make a drill jig to bore out the steel screw
without ruining the aluminum intake manifold's threads.

Wild one, Jim.

--
There is s no such thing as a hyphenated American who is
a good American.* The only man who is a good American is
the man who is an American and nothing else.* We are a
nation, not a hodge-podge of foreign nationalities.* We
are a people, and not a polyglot boarding house.
--Theodore Roosevelt

On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 23:37:16 -0400, Clare Snyder
wrote:

On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 10:03:32 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 07:58:47 -0500
Terry Coombs wrote:

huge snip
This is an '86 GMC pickup

Went and found a manual for same or similar online (64mb):

http://www.73-87chevytrucks.com/tech...ice_Manual.pdf

It seems that the fuse for the radio may also do a few other things:

Idle Stop Solenoid, Aux. Battery, Radio, Time Delay Relay, Emission
Control Solenoid, Transmission Downshift (M40) ..... 15 amp

This is from page 1331 in the manual mentioned above. Maybe it will
make more sense to Snag...
ANd the tranny WAS just changed - I'd definitely be looking at
downshift wire - - -

And pay special attention to the place the wire is caught between the
bell housing and engine block, right?

--
There is s no such thing as a hyphenated American who is
a good American.* The only man who is a good American is
the man who is an American and nothing else.* We are a
nation, not a hodge-podge of foreign nationalities.* We
are a people, and not a polyglot boarding house.
--Theodore Roosevelt

On 10/5/2019 6:12 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 07:58:47 -0500, Terry Coombs
wrote:

Â*Â* When I got my truck back from our son , lots of things that he just
couldn't be bothered to fix . One thing is the radio power supply . He
did tell me that the radio had "died" , turns out the fuse (in the fuse
block) keeps blowing . I've got the dashboard apart enough to check the
wiring harness and supply wires , can't find any cuts or anything that
looks like damaged insulation ... it works just fine sittin' in the
driveway , but within a few miles driving it blows the fuse . I figured
it was the radio/CD player unit so I got a new one , does the same thing
. I'm really puzzled by this , from the way the fuse was spattered it's
got to be a dead short to ground . I think it very unlikely that the new
radio/CD unit is bad - the old one did work when I replaced the fuse ,
for a few miles same as the new unit . This is an '86 GMC pickup , I'm
hoping someone here might be aware of a known problem area that I might
check ... I gotta have tunes !
Check for any extra connections between the battery and radio. It
could be a loose connection. You'll find your extra amperage going to
warm that connection.
Alt1: Run a separate fuse to a switched hot.
Alt2: earphones and your phone/MP3 player are a cheap and easy pair.

--
There is s no such thing as a hyphenated American who is
a good American.Â* The only man who is a good American is
the man who is an American and nothing else.Â* We are a
nation, not a hodge-podge of foreign nationalities.Â* We
are a people, and not a polyglot boarding house.
--Theodore Roosevelt

Â* Catch up Larry , we've tracked it down to the converter lockup
solenoid/wiring inside the trans . Got the new solenoid right here ,
just need a couple of days to get it installed ... figure it would be
good to go ahead with the axle gear swap and installing the correct
drive gears in the trans . That means I need about 3-5 days that I can
do without the truck since I'm getting into stuff I've never done before .

--
Snag
Yes , I'm old
and crochety - and armed .
Get outta my woods !

On Monday, October 7, 2019 at 9:27:11 AM UTC-4, Terry Coombs wrote:
On 10/5/2019 6:12 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 07:58:47 -0500, Terry Coombs
wrote:

Â*Â* When I got my truck back from our son , lots of things that he just
couldn't be bothered to fix . One thing is the radio power supply . He
did tell me that the radio had "died" , turns out the fuse (in the fuse
block) keeps blowing . I've got the dashboard apart enough to check the
wiring harness and supply wires , can't find any cuts or anything that
looks like damaged insulation ... it works just fine sittin' in the
driveway , but within a few miles driving it blows the fuse . I figured
it was the radio/CD player unit so I got a new one , does the same thing
. I'm really puzzled by this , from the way the fuse was spattered it's
got to be a dead short to ground . I think it very unlikely that the new
radio/CD unit is bad - the old one did work when I replaced the fuse ,
for a few miles same as the new unit . This is an '86 GMC pickup , I'm
hoping someone here might be aware of a known problem area that I might
check ... I gotta have tunes !
Check for any extra connections between the battery and radio. It
could be a loose connection. You'll find your extra amperage going to
warm that connection.
Alt1: Run a separate fuse to a switched hot.
Alt2: earphones and your phone/MP3 player are a cheap and easy pair.

--
There is s no such thing as a hyphenated American who is
a good American.Â* The only man who is a good American is
the man who is an American and nothing else.Â* We are a
nation, not a hodge-podge of foreign nationalities.Â* We
are a people, and not a polyglot boarding house.
--Theodore Roosevelt

Â* Catch up Larry , we've tracked it down to the converter lockup
solenoid/wiring inside the trans . Got the new solenoid right here ,
just need a couple of days to get it installed ... figure it would be
good to go ahead with the axle gear swap and installing the correct
drive gears in the trans . That means I need about 3-5 days that I can
do without the truck since I'm getting into stuff I've never done before ..

--
Snag
Yes , I'm old
and crochety - and armed .
Get outta my woods !

That business of the trans lockup and radio being powered by the same fuse sounds an awful (and I do me awful) lot like my hundred year old house wiring. It's hard to label the panel when the house wiring has been wired somewhat like a bowl of spaghetti.

On 10/7/2019 9:28 AM, rangerssuck wrote:
On Monday, October 7, 2019 at 9:27:11 AM UTC-4, Terry Coombs wrote:
On 10/5/2019 6:12 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 07:58:47 -0500, Terry Coombs
wrote:

Â*Â* When I got my truck back from our son , lots of things that he just
couldn't be bothered to fix . One thing is the radio power supply . He
did tell me that the radio had "died" , turns out the fuse (in the fuse
block) keeps blowing . I've got the dashboard apart enough to check the
wiring harness and supply wires , can't find any cuts or anything that
looks like damaged insulation ... it works just fine sittin' in the
driveway , but within a few miles driving it blows the fuse . I figured
it was the radio/CD player unit so I got a new one , does the same thing
. I'm really puzzled by this , from the way the fuse was spattered it's
got to be a dead short to ground . I think it very unlikely that the new
radio/CD unit is bad - the old one did work when I replaced the fuse ,
for a few miles same as the new unit . This is an '86 GMC pickup , I'm
hoping someone here might be aware of a known problem area that I might
check ... I gotta have tunes !
Check for any extra connections between the battery and radio. It
could be a loose connection. You'll find your extra amperage going to
warm that connection.
Alt1: Run a separate fuse to a switched hot.
Alt2: earphones and your phone/MP3 player are a cheap and easy pair.

--
There is s no such thing as a hyphenated American who is
a good American.Â* The only man who is a good American is
the man who is an American and nothing else.Â* We are a
nation, not a hodge-podge of foreign nationalities.Â* We
are a people, and not a polyglot boarding house.
--Theodore Roosevelt
Â* Catch up Larry , we've tracked it down to the converter lockup
solenoid/wiring inside the trans . Got the new solenoid right here ,
just need a couple of days to get it installed ... figure it would be
good to go ahead with the axle gear swap and installing the correct
drive gears in the trans . That means I need about 3-5 days that I can
do without the truck since I'm getting into stuff I've never done before .

--
Snag
Yes , I'm old
and crochety - and armed .
Get outta my woods !
That business of the trans lockup and radio being powered by the same fuse sounds an awful (and I do me awful) lot like my hundred year old house wiring. It's hard to label the panel when the house wiring has been wired somewhat like a bowl of spaghetti.

Â* I think it's more an auxiliary circuit , should have been marked
"aux/radio" or somethin' . Next up is the heater fan , I might have
pulled and left the fuse out while diagnosing . I hope . It was working
so it's probably something simple/stupid that I've done .

--
Snag
Yes , I'm old
and crochety - and armed .
Get outta my woods !

"Terry Coombs" wrote in message
...
On 10/5/2019 6:12 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 07:58:47 -0500, Terry Coombs
wrote:

When I got my truck back from our son , lots of things that he
just
couldn't be bothered to fix . One thing is the radio power supply
. He
did tell me that the radio had "died" , turns out the fuse (in the
fuse
block) keeps blowing . I've got the dashboard apart enough to
check the
wiring harness and supply wires , can't find any cuts or anything
that
looks like damaged insulation ... it works just fine sittin' in
the
driveway , but within a few miles driving it blows the fuse . I
figured
it was the radio/CD player unit so I got a new one , does the same
thing
. I'm really puzzled by this , from the way the fuse was spattered
it's
got to be a dead short to ground . I think it very unlikely that
the new
radio/CD unit is bad - the old one did work when I replaced the
fuse ,
for a few miles same as the new unit . This is an '86 GMC pickup ,
I'm
hoping someone here might be aware of a known problem area that I
might
check ... I gotta have tunes !
Check for any extra connections between the battery and radio. It
could be a loose connection. You'll find your extra amperage going
to
warm that connection.
Alt1: Run a separate fuse to a switched hot.
Alt2: earphones and your phone/MP3 player are a cheap and easy
pair.

--
There is s no such thing as a hyphenated American who is
a good American. The only man who is a good American is
the man who is an American and nothing else. We are a
nation, not a hodge-podge of foreign nationalities. We
are a people, and not a polyglot boarding house.
--Theodore Roosevelt

Catch up Larry , we've tracked it down to the converter lockup
solenoid/wiring inside the trans . Got the new solenoid right here ,
just need a couple of days to get it installed ... figure it would
be good to go ahead with the axle gear swap and installing the
correct drive gears in the trans . That means I need about 3-5 days
that I can do without the truck since I'm getting into stuff I've
never done before .

--
Snag
Yes , I'm old
and crochety - and armed .
Get outta my woods !


Did you check if the misconnected plug was grounding the fused wire
through the internal switch? The solenoid may not be bad.

"Terry Coombs" wrote in message
...
.....
When I worked on my truck's wiring I marked each connector that I had
checked and cleaned by painting a spot of white nail polish on both
halves and writing the connector number from the schematic.

On 10/7/2019 11:15 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Terry Coombs" wrote in message
...
On 10/5/2019 6:12 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 07:58:47 -0500, Terry Coombs
wrote:

When I got my truck back from our son , lots of things that he
just
couldn't be bothered to fix . One thing is the radio power supply
. He
did tell me that the radio had "died" , turns out the fuse (in the
fuse
block) keeps blowing . I've got the dashboard apart enough to
check the
wiring harness and supply wires , can't find any cuts or anything
that
looks like damaged insulation ... it works just fine sittin' in
the
driveway , but within a few miles driving it blows the fuse . I
figured
it was the radio/CD player unit so I got a new one , does the same
thing
. I'm really puzzled by this , from the way the fuse was spattered
it's
got to be a dead short to ground . I think it very unlikely that
the new
radio/CD unit is bad - the old one did work when I replaced the
fuse ,
for a few miles same as the new unit . This is an '86 GMC pickup ,
I'm
hoping someone here might be aware of a known problem area that I
might
check ... I gotta have tunes !
Check for any extra connections between the battery and radio. It
could be a loose connection. You'll find your extra amperage going
to
warm that connection.
Alt1: Run a separate fuse to a switched hot.
Alt2: earphones and your phone/MP3 player are a cheap and easy
pair.

--
There is s no such thing as a hyphenated American who is
a good American. The only man who is a good American is
the man who is an American and nothing else. We are a
nation, not a hodge-podge of foreign nationalities. We
are a people, and not a polyglot boarding house.
--Theodore Roosevelt
Catch up Larry , we've tracked it down to the converter lockup
solenoid/wiring inside the trans . Got the new solenoid right here ,
just need a couple of days to get it installed ... figure it would
be good to go ahead with the axle gear swap and installing the
correct drive gears in the trans . That means I need about 3-5 days
that I can do without the truck since I'm getting into stuff I've
never done before .

--
Snag
Yes , I'm old
and crochety - and armed .
Get outta my woods !

Did you check if the misconnected plug was grounding the fused wire
through the internal switch? The solenoid may not be bad.



Â* After correcting the orientation of the plug it still blows the fuse
but with it unplugged it doesn't ... so I think I've either got a burned
up coil or grounded wire somewhere . I need to change the oil and filter
anyway , so I'll be able to check it all while I've got it open .

--
Snag
Yes , I'm old
and crochety - and armed .
Get outta my woods !

On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 13:51:53 -0500
Terry Coombs wrote:

snip
I need to change the oil and filter
anyway , so I'll be able to check it all while I've got it open .

The oil level on my older version is higher than the pan. So oil will
start to run out soon as you crack the seal. Before I installed a drain
plug I would loosen the bolts such that it would come loose at a
strategic corner with a large catch pan located there. Even after some
leaks out into the pan the darn thing is heavy with oil. It was always
a MESS, hence adding a drain plug

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

On 10/7/2019 2:14 PM, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 13:51:53 -0500
Terry Coombs wrote:

snip
I need to change the oil and filter
anyway , so I'll be able to check it all while I've got it open .
The oil level on my older version is higher than the pan. So oil will
start to run out soon as you crack the seal. Before I installed a drain
plug I would loosen the bolts such that it would come loose at a
strategic corner with a large catch pan located there. Even after some
leaks out into the pan the darn thing is heavy with oil. It was always
a MESS, hence adding a drain plug


Â* How did you install that drain plug ? I was thinking about TIG
welding a bung in , but am concerned that it'll warp .

--
Snag
Yes , I'm old
and crochety - and armed .
Get outta my woods !

On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 18:43:07 -0500
Terry Coombs wrote:

How did you install that drain plug ? I was thinking about TIG
welding a bung in , but am concerned that it'll warp .

First time I tried brazing on a 1/2 inch nut. Didn't like at all how it
looked, turned out. So I patched over the spot with maybe a 3/16 inch
by 3 inch round punch out. I MIG'd that one in place using .025 wire.
Threaded a 1/4 x 24 tpi hole and used matching bolt with aluminum
washer. What I had on hand at the time. That held till the pan rusted
out and started leaking...

The second time I used an 1/2 x 18 bolt with a 1/4 x 24 inch bolt
through it to act as the drain plug. Some simple lathe work. Went in
easy and hasn't leaked so far (maybe 6 years).

Some images he

https://postimg.cc/gallery/yyeg562q/

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

"Terry Coombs" wrote in message
...
On 10/7/2019 11:15 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
...
Did you check if the misconnected plug was grounding the fused wire
through the internal switch? The solenoid may not be bad.



After correcting the orientation of the plug it still blows the
fuse but with it unplugged it doesn't ... so I think I've either got
a burned up coil or grounded wire somewhere . I need to change the
oil and filter anyway , so I'll be able to check it all while I've
got it open .

--
Snag

The other quick test that might save you some trouble is to see if any
of the transmission pins look like a solenoid winding to a digital
multimeter that reads low Ohms properly. Sometimes faults go away when
you disassemble a device and you don't know how, or if, you fixed it.

For comparison I measured a GE 120V 60W incandescent light bulb as
16~17 Ohms (cold).

On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 11:15:34 -0500, Terry Coombs
wrote:

On 9/24/2019 10:07 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Terry Coombs" wrote in message
...
On 9/24/2019 9:03 AM, Joseph Gwinn wrote:
On Sep 24, 2019, Terry Coombs wrote
(in article ):

When I got my truck back from our son , lots of things that he
just
couldn't be bothered to fix . One thing is the radio power supply
. He
did tell me that the radio had "died" , turns out the fuse (in the
fuse
block) keeps blowing . I've got the dashboard apart enough to
check the
wiring harness and supply wires , can't find any cuts or anything
that
looks like damaged insulation ... it works just fine sittin' in
the
driveway , but within a few miles driving it blows the fuse . I
figured
it was the radio/CD player unit so I got a new one , does the same
thing
. I'm really puzzled by this , from the way the fuse was spattered
it's
got to be a dead short to ground . I think it very unlikely that
the new
radio/CD unit is bad - the old one did work when I replaced the
fuse ,
for a few miles same as the new unit . This is an '86 GMC pickup ,
I'm
hoping someone here might be aware of a known problem area that I
might
check ... I gotta have tunes !
It´s classic for sure. The power wire is bouncing around as you
drive, and
over time the wire insulation was worn through, allowing contact
between
copper wire and some part of the steel body.When you find the spot,
it will
be pretty obvious visually.

Solution is to find out where this is happening, and mechanically
prevent
further contact.

Joe Gwinn

I kinda figure you're right , there's a place where it's worn thru
. The problem is finding that spot ... if it was obvious I'd have
found it by now . I've looked and felt as much of that harness as is
available to check , nothing so far . I'm starting to wonder if it's
in/near the fuse block , maybe where the under-dash wiring comes
from behind the block . But it's raining today , and I'll be too
busy to look into it further until Friday or Saturday .

--
Snag
Yes , I'm old
and crochety - and armed .
Get outta my woods !

Taping possible contact areas may help.

This has been useful when there are no voltage-sensitive components at
risk, like older appliances:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00975X2FY..._26725410_item

Battery-powered ones are more convenient, but don't stop generating if
you get shocked.



* And at a thousand volts ... someone else on another ng posted a link
to wiring diagrams , which led my eventually to a forum post that
indicates that power lead goes straight and only to the radio . It comes
out of the harness with the correct other wires . I have traced that
harness from the fuse block to the radio and find no damage or rubs or
torn wrap . My next step will be to pull the fuse block from the
firewall and check for problems on the back side . Gotta pull the plug
off from the rngine side first , and that ain't happenin' in the rain .

Just pull a new wire from the fuse block and be done with it.

Gunner
__

"Poor widdle Wudy...mentally ill, lies constantly, doesnt know who he is, or even what gender "he" is.

No more pathetic creature has ever walked the earth. But...he is locked into a mental hospital for the safety of the public.

Which is a very good thing."

Asun rauhassa, valmistaudun sotaan.


--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 23:29:41 -0400, Gerry
wrote:

On Wed, 25 Sep 2019 07:34:49 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Terry Coombs" wrote in message
...
...
I'm thinking that Steve is right , it's inside the harness . I
spent over an hour today minutely inspecting that harness for any
kind of damage that might be the short . I'm tied up tomorrow and
Thursday , but on Friday I'll be pulling that fuse block and
probably running a new power supply wire outside the harness . As
far as what conditions cause the short , that's what is weird . I
have over a mile of rough (ROUGH!) unpaved road to get to the
highway , the radio died a couple of miles after I hit the paved
road .

--
Snag
Yes , I'm old
and crochety - and armed .
Get outta my woods !


You might research how to make a reliable splice in vehicle wiring,
since vibrating copper wire tends to work-harden and break. When
engine electronics expanded in the 1970's even the engineers had
trouble with connections.

When I was wiring prototype electric vehicles the company had the
proper expensive crimping tools. Soldering is usually bad because it
can create a stress concentration where the wires exit the solder,
which hastens breakage. The motor in my Maytag washing machine failed
that way.

I don't have a 100% perfect record of crimp-splicing wires at home
with cheap consumer or worn industrial tooling and like welding it's a
muscle-memory type job I'm better at doing than describing.

About the worst I ever ran across was a 1983 Dodge Aries where the
wiring harness for door locks and power windows complete with cloth
tape protected, spot welded branch connections, was routed under the
floor mat insulation/padding under the drivers feet. Were else in the
car could you find a greater quantity of chemical laden water during
cold weather in the Great White North!

I have an even better one... 2003 Dodge Caravan. All the wiring from
the dash..controls, etc etc..runs out of the back of the dash..under
the PLASTIC driverside wheel well cover and then into the engine
compartment.
When you blow a steel belted and it wipes out the inner plastic
cover..and then rips out all the wiring from both the engine
compartment AND the dash..it gets pretty ****ty...

https://photos.app.goo.gl/ikd6KP2UeN61g3pA3

The wife still drives with an LED flashlight on the dash at night to
show the speedo. I need to fix that.. I keep forgetting and she never
reminds me.

I had to get an entire wiring harness from another Dodge and rip out
the old one and install the new one. And of course..there was no "plug
and play"

I installed that black split plastic wire conduit..a coupld of 1"
diameter runs over the wires before putting it all back together
again. Got everything working..except for the dash lights...shrug.


Gunner
__

"Poor widdle Wudy...mentally ill, lies constantly, doesnt know who he is, or even what gender "he" is.

No more pathetic creature has ever walked the earth. But...he is locked into a mental hospital for the safety of the public.

Which is a very good thing."

Asun rauhassa, valmistaudun sotaan.


--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 18:43:07 -0500, Terry Coombs
wrote:

On 10/7/2019 2:14 PM, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 13:51:53 -0500
Terry Coombs wrote:

snip
I need to change the oil and filter
anyway , so I'll be able to check it all while I've got it open .
The oil level on my older version is higher than the pan. So oil will
start to run out soon as you crack the seal. Before I installed a drain
plug I would loosen the bolts such that it would come loose at a
strategic corner with a large catch pan located there. Even after some
leaks out into the pan the darn thing is heavy with oil. It was always
a MESS, hence adding a drain plug


* How did you install that drain plug ? I was thinking about TIG
welding a bung in , but am concerned that it'll warp .
I've brazed them several times without a warlage issue. How's the
lockup problem coming? Just got back from 3 week holiday.

On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 12:42:32 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Terry Coombs" wrote in message
...
.....
When I worked on my truck's wiring I marked each connector that I had
checked and cleaned by painting a spot of white nail polish on both
halves and writing the connector number from the schematic.

Smart man, labeling things. Digital pics of before (assembled) and
after (torn apart) are good, too.

I recently picked up a new Dymo labelmaker. Wow, what a difference
from the old plastic letters to the new electronic labels. Man was it
worth the price! LabelManager 280, $34 at Amazon,plus $10.68 for 4
extra rolls of labels.

If you have more to do, get one of these things. The cheap Chiwanese
labels work fine with them, too. I'm decluttering the entire house
and shop, putting the things I keep in clear plastic boxes with
labels, and ordering them better than I ever had before. It's starting
to look sane around here as a result, and I can find stuff and tools
again.


--
There is s no such thing as a hyphenated American who is
a good American.* The only man who is a good American is
the man who is an American and nothing else.* We are a
nation, not a hodge-podge of foreign nationalities.* We
are a people, and not a polyglot boarding house.
--Theodore Roosevelt

On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 08:27:49 -0500, Terry Coombs
wrote:

On 10/5/2019 6:12 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 07:58:47 -0500, Terry Coombs
wrote:

** When I got my truck back from our son , lots of things that he just
couldn't be bothered to fix . One thing is the radio power supply . He
did tell me that the radio had "died" , turns out the fuse (in the fuse
block) keeps blowing . I've got the dashboard apart enough to check the
wiring harness and supply wires , can't find any cuts or anything that
looks like damaged insulation ... it works just fine sittin' in the
driveway , but within a few miles driving it blows the fuse . I figured
it was the radio/CD player unit so I got a new one , does the same thing
. I'm really puzzled by this , from the way the fuse was spattered it's
got to be a dead short to ground . I think it very unlikely that the new
radio/CD unit is bad - the old one did work when I replaced the fuse ,
for a few miles same as the new unit . This is an '86 GMC pickup , I'm
hoping someone here might be aware of a known problem area that I might
check ... I gotta have tunes !
Check for any extra connections between the battery and radio. It
could be a loose connection. You'll find your extra amperage going to
warm that connection.
Alt1: Run a separate fuse to a switched hot.
Alt2: earphones and your phone/MP3 player are a cheap and easy pair.

--
There is s no such thing as a hyphenated American who is
a good American.* The only man who is a good American is
the man who is an American and nothing else.* We are a
nation, not a hodge-podge of foreign nationalities.* We
are a people, and not a polyglot boarding house.
--Theodore Roosevelt

* Catch up Larry , we've tracked it down to the converter lockup
solenoid/wiring inside the trans . Got the new solenoid right here ,
just need a couple of days to get it installed ... figure it would be
good to go ahead with the axle gear swap and installing the correct
drive gears in the trans . That means I need about 3-5 days that I can
do without the truck since I'm getting into stuff I've never done before .

Yeah, I saw that later that day, as I caught up.

--
There is s no such thing as a hyphenated American who is
a good American.* The only man who is a good American is
the man who is an American and nothing else.* We are a
nation, not a hodge-podge of foreign nationalities.* We
are a people, and not a polyglot boarding house.
--Theodore Roosevelt

On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 13:51:53 -0500, Terry Coombs
wrote:

On 10/7/2019 11:15 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Terry Coombs" wrote in message
...
On 10/5/2019 6:12 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Tue, 24 Sep 2019 07:58:47 -0500, Terry Coombs
wrote:

When I got my truck back from our son , lots of things that he
just
couldn't be bothered to fix . One thing is the radio power supply
. He
did tell me that the radio had "died" , turns out the fuse (in the
fuse
block) keeps blowing . I've got the dashboard apart enough to
check the
wiring harness and supply wires , can't find any cuts or anything
that
looks like damaged insulation ... it works just fine sittin' in
the
driveway , but within a few miles driving it blows the fuse . I
figured
it was the radio/CD player unit so I got a new one , does the same
thing
. I'm really puzzled by this , from the way the fuse was spattered
it's
got to be a dead short to ground . I think it very unlikely that
the new
radio/CD unit is bad - the old one did work when I replaced the
fuse ,
for a few miles same as the new unit . This is an '86 GMC pickup ,
I'm
hoping someone here might be aware of a known problem area that I
might
check ... I gotta have tunes !
Check for any extra connections between the battery and radio. It
could be a loose connection. You'll find your extra amperage going
to
warm that connection.
Alt1: Run a separate fuse to a switched hot.
Alt2: earphones and your phone/MP3 player are a cheap and easy
pair.

--
There is s no such thing as a hyphenated American who is
a good American. The only man who is a good American is
the man who is an American and nothing else. We are a
nation, not a hodge-podge of foreign nationalities. We
are a people, and not a polyglot boarding house.
--Theodore Roosevelt
Catch up Larry , we've tracked it down to the converter lockup
solenoid/wiring inside the trans . Got the new solenoid right here ,
just need a couple of days to get it installed ... figure it would
be good to go ahead with the axle gear swap and installing the
correct drive gears in the trans . That means I need about 3-5 days
that I can do without the truck since I'm getting into stuff I've
never done before .

--
Snag
Yes , I'm old
and crochety - and armed .
Get outta my woods !

Did you check if the misconnected plug was grounding the fused wire
through the internal switch? The solenoid may not be bad.



* After correcting the orientation of the plug it still blows the fuse
but with it unplugged it doesn't ... so I think I've either got a burned
up coil or grounded wire somewhere . I need to change the oil and filter
anyway , so I'll be able to check it all while I've got it open .

Doublecheck that your shadetree didn't swap wires in the connector,
JIC. Have fun!

--
There is s no such thing as a hyphenated American who is
a good American.* The only man who is a good American is
the man who is an American and nothing else.* We are a
nation, not a hodge-podge of foreign nationalities.* We
are a people, and not a polyglot boarding house.
--Theodore Roosevelt

On Tue, 8 Oct 2019 08:53:39 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 18:43:07 -0500
Terry Coombs wrote:

How did you install that drain plug ? I was thinking about TIG
welding a bung in , but am concerned that it'll warp .

First time I tried brazing on a 1/2 inch nut. Didn't like at all how it
looked, turned out. So I patched over the spot with maybe a 3/16 inch
by 3 inch round punch out. I MIG'd that one in place using .025 wire.
Threaded a 1/4 x 24 tpi hole and used matching bolt with aluminum
washer. What I had on hand at the time. That held till the pan rusted
out and started leaking...

The second time I used an 1/2 x 18 bolt with a 1/4 x 24 inch bolt
through it to act as the drain plug. Some simple lathe work. Went in
easy and hasn't leaked so far (maybe 6 years).

Some images he

https://postimg.cc/gallery/yyeg562q/

Nice, and no warpage from welding.

--
There is s no such thing as a hyphenated American who is
a good American.* The only man who is a good American is
the man who is an American and nothing else.* We are a
nation, not a hodge-podge of foreign nationalities.* We
are a people, and not a polyglot boarding house.
--Theodore Roosevelt

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 12:42:32 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Terry Coombs" wrote in message
...
.....
When I worked on my truck's wiring I marked each connector that I
had
checked and cleaned by painting a spot of white nail polish on both
halves and writing the connector number from the schematic.

Smart man, labeling things. Digital pics of before (assembled) and
after (torn apart) are good, too.

I recently picked up a new Dymo labelmaker. Wow, what a difference
from the old plastic letters to the new electronic labels. Man was
it
worth the price! LabelManager 280, $34 at Amazon,plus $10.68 for 4
extra rolls of labels.

If you have more to do, get one of these things. The cheap
Chiwanese
labels work fine with them, too. I'm decluttering the entire house
and shop, putting the things I keep in clear plastic boxes with
labels, and ordering them better than I ever had before. It's
starting
to look sane around here as a result, and I can find stuff and tools
again.

I labelled wiring harnesses with white printed heatshrink when [big
auto company] was paying for the supplies. At home I've had better
luck with white nail polish and a fine point Sharpie than any stick-on
labels on connectors that don't have smooth flat surfaces and get hot.

The factory manuals for my vehicles have good drawings showing
connector locations, and others that gave the individual connectors'
wire color coding. I only had to match the connectors to the drawings
and label them, which I did as I cleaned them to mark my progress. The
pins are retained by red tabs that can be removed with needle nose
pliers to extract individual pins.

On 10/19/2019 11:52 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 18:43:07 -0500, Terry Coombs
wrote:

On 10/7/2019 2:14 PM, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 13:51:53 -0500
Terry Coombs wrote:

snip
I need to change the oil and filter
anyway , so I'll be able to check it all while I've got it open .
The oil level on my older version is higher than the pan. So oil will
start to run out soon as you crack the seal. Before I installed a drain
plug I would loosen the bolts such that it would come loose at a
strategic corner with a large catch pan located there. Even after some
leaks out into the pan the darn thing is heavy with oil. It was always
a MESS, hence adding a drain plug

Â* How did you install that drain plug ? I was thinking about TIG
welding a bung in , but am concerned that it'll warp .
I've brazed them several times without a warlage issue. How's the
lockup problem coming? Just got back from 3 week holiday.

Â* I'm pretty much just ignoring it for right now . I have other stuff
to do to the truck , plan on all in one shot . Tomorrow will be (I hope)
the last day I'll "need" the truck for a little while , may start on it
later this week . I am sourcing the few other parts I'll need (speedo
drive mainly) so when I start I'll keep at it until I'm finished .

--
Snag
Yes , I'm old
and crochety - and armed .
Get outta my woods !

On Mon, 21 Oct 2019 21:39:20 -0500, Terry Coombs
wrote:

On 10/19/2019 11:52 AM, Clare Snyder wrote:
On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 18:43:07 -0500, Terry Coombs
wrote:

On 10/7/2019 2:14 PM, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Mon, 7 Oct 2019 13:51:53 -0500
Terry Coombs wrote:

snip
I need to change the oil and filter
anyway , so I'll be able to check it all while I've got it open .
The oil level on my older version is higher than the pan. So oil will
start to run out soon as you crack the seal. Before I installed a drain
plug I would loosen the bolts such that it would come loose at a
strategic corner with a large catch pan located there. Even after some
leaks out into the pan the darn thing is heavy with oil. It was always
a MESS, hence adding a drain plug

* How did you install that drain plug ? I was thinking about TIG
welding a bung in , but am concerned that it'll warp .
I've brazed them several times without a warlage issue. How's the
lockup problem coming? Just got back from 3 week holiday.

* I'm pretty much just ignoring it for right now . I have other stuff
to do to the truck , plan on all in one shot . Tomorrow will be (I hope)
the last day I'll "need" the truck for a little while , may start on it
later this week . I am sourcing the few other parts I'll need (speedo
drive mainly) so when I start I'll keep at it until I'm finished .

Sounds like a plan --