Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Old August 24th 19, 11:49 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default New Bandsaw - (NEW new)

"David Billington" wrote in message
...
On 24/08/2019 21:18, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
...
I started to setup the saw today, and ran into my first problem
pretty quickly. The bolt holes in the stand do not line up with
the
bolt holes in the saw. They aren't off by a little either. They
are
off by a lot. A call to Customer Service at Grizzly was not
particularly helpful.
...

The answer:
https://www.ecklers.com/assets/eam/i...u/64-44825.jpg


It's a real part:
https://www.ecklers.com/1955-1957-fo...6-44825-1.html



Other useful fasteners http://www.metal-arts.co.uk/temp/richco.jpg


That's the drawing I was searching for, which I first saw as a
draftsman in the mid 70's.

http://www.projectcartoon.com/cartoon/46980



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Old August 25th 19, 12:19 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default New Bandsaw - (NEW new)

On Sat, 24 Aug 2019 18:49:07 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"David Billington" wrote in message
...
On 24/08/2019 21:18, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
...
I started to setup the saw today, and ran into my first problem
pretty quickly. The bolt holes in the stand do not line up with
the
bolt holes in the saw. They aren't off by a little either. They
are
off by a lot. A call to Customer Service at Grizzly was not
particularly helpful.
...
The answer:
https://www.ecklers.com/assets/eam/i...u/64-44825.jpg


It's a real part:
https://www.ecklers.com/1955-1957-fo...6-44825-1.html


Ford also used something like that on truck I-beam suspension to
adjust camber and Chebby used similar bolts in the upper control arms
to set both caster and camber. Boy, those are old memories...


Other useful fasteners http://www.metal-arts.co.uk/temp/richco.jpg


That's the drawing I was searching for, which I first saw as a
draftsman in the mid 70's.

http://www.projectcartoon.com/cartoon/46980


I love it! I'd seen a pared down version long ago and enjoyed it,
too.

--
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crazy people would get off fewer shots.
Support the 2nd Amendment
  #23   Report Post  
Old August 25th 19, 01:02 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default New Bandsaw - (NEW new)

On Sat, 24 Aug 2019 18:49:07 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

That's the drawing I was searching for, which I first saw as a
draftsman in the mid 70's.

http://www.projectcartoon.com/cartoon/46980


I remember a version of that from the pre-Internet days. Ah, still
have it! http://alt-config.net/swingSM.jpg Change the "SM" to "LG"
if you want a full size version.

Another one I no longer have the original of, but actually redrew in
drafting class back in the early 80s. Never got around to adding the
caption (sucked at lettering!) Think it was something like "Wood
Stove for Sale" then "Guaranteed to burn for four hours"
http://alt-config.net/woodstove.jpg
--
William
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Old August 25th 19, 03:34 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 111
Default New Bandsaw - (NEW new)

On Sun, 25 Aug 2019 08:02:02 -0400
William Bagwell wrote:

On Sat, 24 Aug 2019 18:49:07 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

That's the drawing I was searching for, which I first saw as a
draftsman in the mid 70's.

http://www.projectcartoon.com/cartoon/46980


I remember a version of that from the pre-Internet days. Ah, still
have it! http://alt-config.net/swingSM.jpg Change the "SM" to "LG"
if you want a full size version.

Another one I no longer have the original of, but actually redrew in
drafting class back in the early 80s. Never got around to adding the
caption (sucked at lettering!) Think it was something like "Wood
Stove for Sale" then "Guaranteed to burn for four hours"
http://alt-config.net/woodstove.jpg


Too funny. I remember seeing both of those many years ago. Most likely
on a piece of letter size copy paper taped up in the office area where I
was servicing equipment

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

  #25   Report Post  
Old August 25th 19, 07:41 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 253
Default New Bandsaw - (NEW new)

On 24/08/2019 23:49, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"David Billington" wrote in message
...
On 24/08/2019 21:18, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
...
I started to setup the saw today, and ran into my first problem
pretty quickly. The bolt holes in the stand do not line up with
the
bolt holes in the saw. They aren't off by a little either. They
are
off by a lot. A call to Customer Service at Grizzly was not
particularly helpful.
...
The answer:
https://www.ecklers.com/assets/eam/i...u/64-44825.jpg

It's a real part:
https://www.ecklers.com/1955-1957-fo...6-44825-1.html


Other useful fasteners http://www.metal-arts.co.uk/temp/richco.jpg

That's the drawing I was searching for, which I first saw as a
draftsman in the mid 70's.

http://www.projectcartoon.com/cartoon/46980


I like that. One I can't find at the moment which I have copy of
somewhere is of a supplier on the phone to a customer with the customer
saying "If I wanted it tomorrow I'd order it tomorrow".



  #26   Report Post  
Old August 26th 19, 07:11 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 10,305
Default New Bandsaw - (NEW new)

On Wed, 14 Aug 2019 15:09:29 -0700, Bob La Londe
wrote:

I got suckered in by some SPAM from Grizzly and ordered a G0621X
variable speed vertical wood/metal bandsaw. Of course it seems to only
come with a wood blade, and I will probably only ever use it for metal
cutting. (I already have a decent Rigid mid/small woodcutting upright
bandsaw.)

I think I know why they had them on sale. The title of the listing says
its 3 phase. You have to read down into the description to see they
sell it with a VFD control for speed control and its wires to plug into
a single phase outlet. I think most small shop and home shop people saw
"3 phase" and just skipped onto the next listing.

I'm getting ready to order a metal cutting blade for it. I like the way
the M42 blades hold up on my 7x10 bandsaw so I figured I'd just get
those for the upright. The saw spec says blade width from 1/8 to 1
inch, but I doubt I'll be doing any scroll cutting with it. I'm kinda
looking for the most useful pitch and width so to speak. Is there a big
difference between a 3/4 inch wide blade and a 1 inch wide blade. I
suspect I'll be doing 99.9% straight cutting stuff that isn't practical
to fit in the horizontal. Cost difference is only about $10-15 dollars
depending on the source, but still $10 is a premium six pack of beer or
a couple shots of top grade Canadian rye for after work.

Then there is pitch. The blade on my 7x10 horizontal seems to do just
fine for most things. I use it on aluminum most of the time, but it
will severe 1-5/8 4140QT round without much thought, and of course it
severs easy machining stress proof almost as fast as it chops aluminum.
Looks like about 12 pitch. I can't recall, but it might be variable
pitch 12/14 or something like that. I don't want to have a bunch of
different blades hanging on the wall. Just one spare that will allow me
to keep going if I break one while I order another spare. It will get
used most of the time to cut 6061 or 7075 aluminum from 1/2" thick to 2
inch thick. It will occasionally need to cut some 4140HT or some A36
from 1/4 inch to 1-1/2 inch. Rarely I may need to cut some pieces of
aluminum sheet in either 5052 or 3003. Now I usually cut those with a
circular saw on the wood deck of my equipment trailer.

I'm leaning towards a 12-14TPI or 10-12TPI 3/4 inch blade since that's
what I am running on the horizontal, but I'm open to changing my mind.


Always remember...3 teeth in the cut. If you are cutting 1" stock..you
can easily use 6tpi blades. if you are cutting .25" stock...12-14 is
better.

__

"Poor widdle Wudy...mentally ill, lies constantly, doesnt know who he is, or even what gender "he" is.

No more pathetic creature has ever walked the earth. But...he is locked into a mental hospital for the safety of the public.

Which is a very good thing."

Asun rauhassa, valmistaudun sotaan.


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  #27   Report Post  
Old August 26th 19, 08:23 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 1,522
Default New Bandsaw - (NEW new)

On 8/24/2019 12:24 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 8/23/2019 1:21 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 8/14/2019 3:09 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
I got suckered in by some SPAM from Grizzly and ordered a G0621X
variable speed vertical wood/metal bandsaw.* Of course it seems to
only come with a wood blade, and I will probably only ever use it for
metal cutting.* (I already have a decent Rigid mid/small woodcutting
upright bandsaw.)

I think I know why they had them on sale.* The title of the listing
says its 3 phase.* You have to read down into the description to see
they sell it with a VFD control for speed control and its wires to
plug into a single phase outlet.* I think most small shop and home
shop people saw "3 phase" and just skipped onto the next listing.

I'm getting ready to order a metal cutting blade for it.* I like the
way the M42 blades hold up on my 7x10 bandsaw so I figured I'd just
get those for the upright.* The saw spec says blade width from 1/8 to
1 inch, but I doubt I'll be doing any scroll cutting with it.* I'm
kinda looking for the most useful pitch and width so to speak.* Is
there a big difference between a 3/4 inch wide blade and a 1 inch
wide blade.* I suspect I'll be doing 99.9% straight cutting stuff
that isn't practical to fit in the horizontal.* Cost difference is
only about $10-15 dollars depending on the source, but still $10 is a
premium six pack of beer or a couple shots of top grade Canadian rye
for after work.

Then there is pitch.* The blade on my 7x10 horizontal seems to do
just fine for most things.* I use it on aluminum most of the time,
but it will severe 1-5/8 4140QT round without much thought, and of
course it severs easy machining stress proof almost as fast as it
chops aluminum. Looks like about 12 pitch.* I can't recall, but it
might be variable pitch 12/14 or something like that.* I don't want
to have a bunch of different blades hanging on the wall.* Just one
spare that will allow me to keep going if I break one while I order
another spare.* It will get used most of the time to cut 6061 or 7075
aluminum from 1/2" thick to 2 inch thick.* It will occasionally need
to cut some 4140HT or some A36 from 1/4 inch to 1-1/2 inch.* Rarely I
may need to cut some pieces of aluminum sheet in either 5052 or
3003.* Now I usually cut those with a circular saw on the wood deck
of my equipment trailer.

I'm leaning towards a 12-14TPI or 10-12TPI 3/4 inch blade since
that's what I am running on the horizontal, but I'm open to changing
my mind.



Well it finally arrived a day late while the blades arrived several
days early.

First impressions are good. All the sheet metal is heavier than I
expected and much heavier than my wood only vertical saw. The saw
itself is a lot heavier. I will not be dead lifting it onto the stand.
One thing in the version of the manual I found online that concerned
me is that it appeared to have friction block type blade guides. My
wood cutting bandsaw has friction block and they work fine.
Particularly since I changed them out for "Cool Blocks" (tm), but both
of my horizontal metal cutting saws have bearing roller guides. One of
the first things I noticed when I pried the saw out of the Styrofoam
packing (more on that in a minute) is that top and bottom had decent
size bearing roller blade guides. Making sure it wasn't a very recent
upgrade I opened the manual that actually came with the saw and it
shows the bearing roller guides. It could be another reason the saw
was on sale. Another item that represented the saw as less than it
actually was.

About that Styrofoam packing. Its a very thick excellent sandwich foam
custom molded for the saw. Did I say thick. The box itself looked like
it had been burst partly open and retaped in transit. The box was
damaged on two sides and the whole box was "bent" a foot from the end
and the end dipped more than an inch hanging off the pallet. I have
fully unpacked and unwrapped the saw, and the stand. I went out of my
way looking for any signs of damaged from bent sheet metal to a door
that might not open or close perfectly. There are still parts (table,
fence, trunnion, wheel, etc) embedded in the packing foam, but I could
find zero hints of damage despite the obvious abuse the packaging
received in transit.

I have a lot of work to do so the saw might just sit where it is for a
couple days, but I'll let you know how it does ripping aluminum and
steel soon enough.

The motor is a little lighter than I would have liked at 1.25 HP
according to the data plate, but it is a 4 pole motor so it should
still have decent torque at modest RPM.


I started to setup the saw today, and ran into my first problem pretty
quickly. The bolt holes in the stand do not line up with the bolt holes
in the saw. They aren't off by a little either. They are off by a lot. A
call to Customer Service at Grizzly was not particularly helpful.

"Oh, tech support has to talk with you and will ask you to make
measurements. I can start a ticket, but then you will have to wait on
them to get back to you, or you can call back on Monday and we can
transfer you directly over to them. "

What I heard was, "Customer service is only here on the weekend to make
people 'think' you might get some service. Not to actually do anything."
LOL.

What somebody else, might say is, "Oh that's awesome. Its totally not
right out of the box, but they are fantastic because they will make it
right eventually." LOL.



Well I found the problem. The logo panel on the stand is on upside
down. LOL, Seriously. I just set the stand down with the logo upside
right, and the stand is upside down. It never even occurred to me
they'd ship it with their logo mounted upside down. I feel silly.
  #28   Report Post  
Old August 26th 19, 08:48 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 253
Default New Bandsaw - (NEW new)

On 26/08/2019 20:23, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 8/24/2019 12:24 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 8/23/2019 1:21 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 8/14/2019 3:09 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
I got suckered in by some SPAM from Grizzly and ordered a G0621X
variable speed vertical wood/metal bandsaw.* Of course it seems to
only come with a wood blade, and I will probably only ever use it
for metal cutting.* (I already have a decent Rigid mid/small
woodcutting upright bandsaw.)

I think I know why they had them on sale.* The title of the listing
says its 3 phase.* You have to read down into the description to
see they sell it with a VFD control for speed control and its wires
to plug into a single phase outlet.* I think most small shop and
home shop people saw "3 phase" and just skipped onto the next listing.

I'm getting ready to order a metal cutting blade for it.* I like
the way the M42 blades hold up on my 7x10 bandsaw so I figured I'd
just get those for the upright.* The saw spec says blade width from
1/8 to 1 inch, but I doubt I'll be doing any scroll cutting with
it.* I'm kinda looking for the most useful pitch and width so to
speak.* Is there a big difference between a 3/4 inch wide blade and
a 1 inch wide blade.* I suspect I'll be doing 99.9% straight
cutting stuff that isn't practical to fit in the horizontal.* Cost
difference is only about $10-15 dollars depending on the source,
but still $10 is a premium six pack of beer or a couple shots of
top grade Canadian rye for after work.

Then there is pitch.* The blade on my 7x10 horizontal seems to do
just fine for most things.* I use it on aluminum most of the time,
but it will severe 1-5/8 4140QT round without much thought, and of
course it severs easy machining stress proof almost as fast as it
chops aluminum. Looks like about 12 pitch.* I can't recall, but it
might be variable pitch 12/14 or something like that.* I don't want
to have a bunch of different blades hanging on the wall.* Just one
spare that will allow me to keep going if I break one while I order
another spare.* It will get used most of the time to cut 6061 or
7075 aluminum from 1/2" thick to 2 inch thick. It will occasionally
need to cut some 4140HT or some A36 from 1/4 inch to 1-1/2 inch.*
Rarely I may need to cut some pieces of aluminum sheet in either
5052 or 3003.* Now I usually cut those with a circular saw on the
wood deck of my equipment trailer.

I'm leaning towards a 12-14TPI or 10-12TPI 3/4 inch blade since
that's what I am running on the horizontal, but I'm open to
changing my mind.


Well it finally arrived a day late while the blades arrived several
days early.

First impressions are good. All the sheet metal is heavier than I
expected and much heavier than my wood only vertical saw. The saw
itself is a lot heavier. I will not be dead lifting it onto the
stand. One thing in the version of the manual I found online that
concerned me is that it appeared to have friction block type blade
guides. My wood cutting bandsaw has friction block and they work
fine. Particularly since I changed them out for "Cool Blocks" (tm),
but both of my horizontal metal cutting saws have bearing roller
guides. One of the first things I noticed when I pried the saw out
of the Styrofoam packing (more on that in a minute) is that top and
bottom had decent size bearing roller blade guides. Making sure it
wasn't a very recent upgrade I opened the manual that actually came
with the saw and it shows the bearing roller guides. It could be
another reason the saw was on sale. Another item that represented
the saw as less than it actually was.

About that Styrofoam packing. Its a very thick excellent sandwich
foam custom molded for the saw. Did I say thick. The box itself
looked like it had been burst partly open and retaped in transit.
The box was damaged on two sides and the whole box was "bent" a foot
from the end and the end dipped more than an inch hanging off the
pallet. I have fully unpacked and unwrapped the saw, and the stand.
I went out of my way looking for any signs of damaged from bent
sheet metal to a door that might not open or close perfectly. There
are still parts (table, fence, trunnion, wheel, etc) embedded in the
packing foam, but I could find zero hints of damage despite the
obvious abuse the packaging received in transit.

I have a lot of work to do so the saw might just sit where it is for
a couple days, but I'll let you know how it does ripping aluminum
and steel soon enough.

The motor is a little lighter than I would have liked at 1.25 HP
according to the data plate, but it is a 4 pole motor so it should
still have decent torque at modest RPM.


I started to setup the saw today, and ran into my first problem
pretty quickly. The bolt holes in the stand do not line up with the
bolt holes in the saw. They aren't off by a little either. They are
off by a lot. A call to Customer Service at Grizzly was not
particularly helpful.

"Oh, tech support has to talk with you and will ask you to make
measurements. I can start a ticket, but then you will have to wait on
them to get back to you, or you can call back on Monday and we can
transfer you directly over to them. "

What I heard was, "Customer service is only here on the weekend to
make people 'think' you might get some service. Not to actually do
anything." LOL.

What somebody else, might say is, "Oh that's awesome. Its totally not
right out of the box, but they are fantastic because they will make
it right eventually." LOL.



Well I found the problem.* The logo panel on the stand is on upside
down.* LOL,* Seriously. I just set the stand down with the logo upside
right, and the stand is upside down.* It never even occurred to me
they'd ship it with their logo mounted upside down.* I feel silly.


Must have been the model destined for Australia and New Zealand.

  #29   Report Post  
Old August 26th 19, 08:53 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 111
Default New Bandsaw - (NEW new)

On Mon, 26 Aug 2019 20:48:56 +0100
David Billington wrote:

On 26/08/2019 20:23, Bob La Londe wrote:
On 8/24/2019 12:24 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:

[...]
[...]
[...]
[...]
[...]


Well I found the problem.* The logo panel on the stand is on upside
down.* LOL,* Seriously. I just set the stand down with the logo upside
right, and the stand is upside down.* It never even occurred to me
they'd ship it with their logo mounted upside down.* I feel silly.


Must have been the model destined for Australia and New Zealand.


Maybe the people who put it on there thought it looked fine that
way ;-)

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

  #30   Report Post  
Old August 26th 19, 11:07 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 5,433
Default New Bandsaw - (NEW new)

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
...
Well I found the problem. The logo panel on the stand is on upside
down. LOL, Seriously. I just set the stand down with the logo
upside right, and the stand is upside down. It never even occurred
to me they'd ship it with their logo mounted upside down. I feel
silly.


I was tempted to suggest that if the front holes were too far apart
and the rear ones too close together you should turn it around, but
that would be an undeserved cheap shot.

Turns out it does fit the assembler and inspector.

I've seen a reputedly very intelligent person completely befuddled by
a backwards bandsaw blade. I just wordlessly inverted it. Then to rub
it in I folded the dull one into three loops.

As a lowly lab tech in a sea of Ph.Ds I had to do such things to make
them listen. I never found out which genius kept trying to cut an old
lawnmower blade at the Walker-Turner's wood speed. I couldn't stop
them but I would have offered to take it home and cut it on my chop
saw.




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