Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Old April 25th 19, 04:24 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default My First Punch and Die - Makers & Builders

Back in the mid 90s atleast partly with help from this group I made my first
"punch" and "die." I needed to install some photo beams at a port of entry
for a pedestrian counter. I designed the "system" using a variety of parts
and components, but I was concerned about the photo beams themselves. They
had something like a 5 year warranty, but the lenses were polycarbonate.
Each set of beams had to be placed in a walkway between counters. My
concern was that people brushing by would quickly wear the lens as clothing
bags, and misc items brushed against the sides of the walkway. I didn't
want to be that guy who everybody there got to know because I was always
there fixing it. I had the idea to recess the emitter and sensor so that
only the most aggressive brushing up against might contact the surfaces. I
looked all over, but nobody made a recessed electrical plate that I thought
would work. I took a piece of hot rolled (didn't even know what it was
called at the time) and cut one pieces with a rectangular hole in it to mate
with the back of an aluminum electrical blank plate. I chamfered the edges
by hand with a grinder so it was a decent fit. Then I cut a small piece to
mate with it about plate thickness smaller all the way around and hand
chamfered it as well. Then I just mashed a cover plate between them with my
hydraulic press. (had it for automotive work, not machine work) It looked
amazingly good. I doubt the guys at GSA ever noticed that was a custom
piece.

As a new (mostly black box) system it had its development issues, but lens
wear of the emitter and sensor was not one of them. It was in use for years
until they went to a new system with some big contractor at all the ports.

That was definitely metal working. I doubt it was really machining though
except in the crudest sense. I take that sort of approach to a lot of what
I do. I don't have a stick up my butt about being a "machinist" "welder"
"fabricator" "mechanic". In fact my knowledge is lacking really in all of
those areas even though now I make my living as a niche market mold maker.
I can weld. If its important to look pretty I do some practice welds and
then do the real weld after I've taken a break and I am fresh. If it just
has to stick I burn it together and clean it up with a grinder. I know less
about welding than almost anybody else in this group, but oddly enough I
have five electric welders and an OA rig and I have welded parts still in
use today with all but one of them. (Just got a new AC/DC pulse TIG a
couple days ago.) Fabricator is a tough term to define, but I've built and
converted trailers a welding table wood storage rack and various other
things to fit needs.A lot of welding there, but various other fabrication
skills as well. Still I don't consider myself a fabricator. I do have
people bring me things to make or fix, but I turn down a lot of it unless
they are friends and they stay to help. What about a machinist... No. Just
ask any old manual machinist. I'm just a hack, button pushing, shade tree,
wannabe by the very fact that I never serviced apprenticeship for 3
lifetimes in a steam powered line shop. LOL.

Since I'm no longer a contractor (retired and sold out) what does that make
me? There is a lot I don't know, but very few projects am I afraid to try
to come up with a solution. Atleast for myself. I won't always take on
projects for others. If I don't know I learn how. If I can't figure it out
myself I ask questions. If I don't have the recommended tools I think about
it and see if I can find alternatives. If I still have to have the tools I
put them on the list and when I have money I buy them.

The term "Maker" always bothered me. It didn't sound quite right, but
ultimately I think that's what I am. A maker. I find ways to make what I
need and I don't worry to much about being true to any particular trade. If
it works it works.

I'm a long time member of this group of course. Saddens me to see that
signal to nose ration what it is today. I'm a member of various other
groups. Some very specialized around a particular piece of equipment like
the Yahoo mailing list for the mini lathe and others more broad like Home
Shop Machinist, so when I started my own group (on Facebook) what did I call
it? Makers & Builders. https://www.facebook.com/groups/MakersBuilders/
Visit or don't. I'm good either way.



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Old April 25th 19, 09:42 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default My First Punch and Die - Makers & Builders

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
...What about a machinist... No. Just ask any old manual machinist.
I'm just a hack, button pushing, shade tree, wannabe by the very
fact that I never serviced apprenticeship for 3 lifetimes in a steam
powered line shop. LOL.


Hmmm, at age 18 I did operate machine tools in a factory with overhead
line shafts and leather belts. Can I call myself a machinist?


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Old April 25th 19, 11:57 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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On 4/25/2019 1:42 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
...What about a machinist... No. Just ask any old manual machinist.
I'm just a hack, button pushing, shade tree, wannabe by the very
fact that I never serviced apprenticeship for 3 lifetimes in a steam
powered line shop. LOL.


Hmmm, at age 18 I did operate machine tools in a factory with overhead
line shafts and leather belts. Can I call myself a machinist?




Only if it was steam (water wheel is ok) powered and the old guys in the
shop always sneered down their noses at you and said you weren't a real
machinist if you didn't serve an apprenticeship beating metal over an
anvil first.


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Old April 26th 19, 01:37 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default My First Punch and Die - Makers & Builders

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...

On 4/25/2019 1:42 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
...What about a machinist... No. Just ask any old manual
machinist.
I'm just a hack, button pushing, shade tree, wannabe by the very
fact that I never serviced apprenticeship for 3 lifetimes in a
steam
powered line shop. LOL.


Hmmm, at age 18 I did operate machine tools in a factory with
overhead
line shafts and leather belts. Can I call myself a machinist?




Only if it was steam (water wheel is ok) powered and the old guys in
the shop always sneered down their noses at you and said you weren't
a real machinist if you didn't serve an apprenticeship beating metal
over an anvil first.


A 200 HP electric motor ran the line shafts. Does it count that some
of the electricity was low head hydro?

I didn't have a proper anvil until I was a teen; it was on a shelf in
a friend's garage and had my name plainly stamped on the side,
WILKIN(son), the last 3 missing over a depression. They were a family
of lawyers who had no use for such tools.

Before that I had to pound metal on rocks and stumps and chunks of
discarded scrap iron my grandfather and uncle had brought home from
that factory. Stumps work surprisingly well and leave a smooth finish.
Rocks, not so good.


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Old April 26th 19, 02:49 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default My First Punch and Die - Makers & Builders

On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 15:57:09 -0700, Bob La Londe
wrote:


On 4/25/2019 1:42 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
...What about a machinist... No. Just ask any old manual machinist.
I'm just a hack, button pushing, shade tree, wannabe by the very
fact that I never serviced apprenticeship for 3 lifetimes in a steam
powered line shop. LOL.


Hmmm, at age 18 I did operate machine tools in a factory with overhead
line shafts and leather belts. Can I call myself a machinist?




Only if it was steam (water wheel is ok) powered and the old guys in the
shop always sneered down their noses at you and said you weren't a real
machinist if you didn't serve an apprenticeship beating metal over an
anvil first.

Actually I'm old enough that when I served my apprenticeship there
were still a few of those old guys around. My "apprentice master" was
well into his 60's and had "gone in the shop" when he was 14 years
old. I never heard them talk about beating metal over an anvil. About
the only ones left that did that when I was a boy were
Farriers, who shoed the few working horses left and they worked to
tolerances of, "well about that much" :-)

--
cheers,

John B.



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Old April 26th 19, 04:02 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default My First Punch and Die - Makers & Builders

"John B." wrote in message
...
On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 15:57:09 -0700, Bob La Londe
wrote:


On 4/25/2019 1:42 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
...What about a machinist... No. Just ask any old manual
machinist.
I'm just a hack, button pushing, shade tree, wannabe by the very
fact that I never serviced apprenticeship for 3 lifetimes in a
steam
powered line shop. LOL.


Hmmm, at age 18 I did operate machine tools in a factory with
overhead
line shafts and leather belts. Can I call myself a machinist?




Only if it was steam (water wheel is ok) powered and the old guys in
the
shop always sneered down their noses at you and said you weren't a
real
machinist if you didn't serve an apprenticeship beating metal over
an
anvil first.

Actually I'm old enough that when I served my apprenticeship there
were still a few of those old guys around. My "apprentice master"
was
well into his 60's and had "gone in the shop" when he was 14 years
old. I never heard them talk about beating metal over an anvil.
About
the only ones left that did that when I was a boy were
Farriers, who shoed the few working horses left and they worked to
tolerances of, "well about that much" :-)

--
cheers,

John B.


My apprenticeship was at a small company that built custom production
test equipment for the auto industry. I had to learn manual and
machine metalworking and industrial electrician practices but already
knew drafting from school and quite a bit of analog and digital
electronics from the Army.

I've never seen a good title for the skills necessary to specify,
design, construct and test custom electrical + mechanical equipment.
"Engineer" tends to imply a designer with clean fingernails who passes
the hands-on work to technicians. Maybe that multitasking is only for
small companies like Segway where titles and job descriptions don't
matter, the shop was open for anyone to experimentally machine or
modify the parts they'd designed. Sometimes I had to wait until
midnight for CNC machine time.



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Old April 26th 19, 04:45 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default My First Punch and Die - Makers & Builders

On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 08:49:54 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 15:57:09 -0700, Bob La Londe
wrote:


On 4/25/2019 1:42 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
...What about a machinist... No. Just ask any old manual machinist.
I'm just a hack, button pushing, shade tree, wannabe by the very
fact that I never serviced apprenticeship for 3 lifetimes in a steam
powered line shop. LOL.


Hmmm, at age 18 I did operate machine tools in a factory with overhead
line shafts and leather belts. Can I call myself a machinist?




Only if it was steam (water wheel is ok) powered and the old guys in the
shop always sneered down their noses at you and said you weren't a real
machinist if you didn't serve an apprenticeship beating metal over an
anvil first.

Actually I'm old enough that when I served my apprenticeship there
were still a few of those old guys around. My "apprentice master" was
well into his 60's and had "gone in the shop" when he was 14 years
old. I never heard them talk about beating metal over an anvil. About
the only ones left that did that when I was a boy were
Farriers, who shoed the few working horses left and they worked to
tolerances of, "well about that much" :-)

If it has any bearing - my maternal grandfather shoed his first horse
when he was eight years old. Latter life saw him modify the steering
system on the Ford 999 to suit Barney Oldfield's cycle racing
experience.
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Old April 26th 19, 05:39 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default My First Punch and Die - Makers & Builders

On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 23:45:31 -0400, Gerry
wrote:

On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 08:49:54 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 15:57:09 -0700, Bob La Londe
wrote:


On 4/25/2019 1:42 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
...
...What about a machinist... No. Just ask any old manual machinist.
I'm just a hack, button pushing, shade tree, wannabe by the very
fact that I never serviced apprenticeship for 3 lifetimes in a steam
powered line shop. LOL.


Hmmm, at age 18 I did operate machine tools in a factory with overhead
line shafts and leather belts. Can I call myself a machinist?




Only if it was steam (water wheel is ok) powered and the old guys in the
shop always sneered down their noses at you and said you weren't a real
machinist if you didn't serve an apprenticeship beating metal over an
anvil first.

Actually I'm old enough that when I served my apprenticeship there
were still a few of those old guys around. My "apprentice master" was
well into his 60's and had "gone in the shop" when he was 14 years
old. I never heard them talk about beating metal over an anvil. About
the only ones left that did that when I was a boy were
Farriers, who shoed the few working horses left and they worked to
tolerances of, "well about that much" :-)

If it has any bearing - my maternal grandfather shoed his first horse
when he was eight years old. Latter life saw him modify the steering
system on the Ford 999 to suit Barney Oldfield's cycle racing
experience.


Did you get any photos of him with 999, Gerry? That's quite a piece of
racing history.

--
Ed Huntress


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Old April 26th 19, 05:13 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default My First Punch and Die - Makers & Builders

On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 20:28:36 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:
On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 19:27:50 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:



The decline of this group is probably due to the majority of users

aging
out. The noise is due to another reason...



The "decline" of this group is the result of a 18-year-long
infestation of cross-posting cretins, mostly from the "survivalist"
groups, initiated around 2001 by Gunner, which has taken on a life

of
its own and driven many active members away.



--
Ed ****dress


I suppose your trolling for gay sex with minors in the survivalist
groups while prancing around in your daddy's **** dress has nothing
to do with it? Eh , you stank nasty **** in a dress?
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Old April 26th 19, 10:13 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default My First Punch and Die - Makers & Builders

On Fri, 26 Apr 2019 11:13:59 -0500, Red Prepper wrote:

On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 20:28:36 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:
On Thu, 25 Apr 2019 19:27:50 -0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:



The decline of this group is probably due to the majority of users

aging
out. The noise is due to another reason...



The "decline" of this group is the result of a 18-year-long
infestation of cross-posting cretins, mostly from the "survivalist"
groups, initiated around 2001 by Gunner, which has taken on a life

of
its own and driven many active members away.



--
Ed ****dress


I suppose your trolling for gay sex with minors in the survivalist
groups while prancing around in your daddy's **** dress has nothing
to do with it? Eh , you stank nasty **** in a dress?


See what I mean, John? "Red Prepper" is one of the most disgusting of
the "survivalist" cretins -- a sex pervert who projects stories about
some vaginal odor trauma that he probably experienced early in life.
He's one of the sickest ones, but if you want to see a cesspool of
paranoid xenophobes, chronic liars, and a couple of anarchists and
white supremacists, stop into misc.survivalism or alt.survival
sometime.

They started showing up here almost two decades ago, tagging along
with Gunner's cross-posts. Several of the most active members in RCM
just turned away from all the garbage that was being thrown on our
lawn and left for good.

That's what happened. The same thing happened to alt.machines.cnc,
which has completely dried up and blown away. Nobody talks to Red
Pecker here anymore, but he keeps trying to stir something up. Those
who are left have either killfiled him or just ignore him.

--
Ed Huntress


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