Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Default what type of press is this?

It's some sort of press with a heavy wheel that spins back and forth and
presses on the work using a heavy screw.

No audio needed, just watch about 10 seconds

https://youtu.be/CLcAms8GgeM?t=427

What's the history of these, any is it something uncommon in the US?

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"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message
...
It's some sort of press with a heavy wheel that spins back and forth
and
presses on the work using a heavy screw.

No audio needed, just watch about 10 seconds

https://youtu.be/CLcAms8GgeM?t=427

What's the history of these, any is it something uncommon in the US?


https://piehtoolco.com/contents/en-us/d1439.html

I've seen them in a blackmith shop but never in the New England
museums or used machinery stores I've visited. That may only mean they
sell quickly, like anvils and other desirable small-shop machinery.

The blacksmith had custom forging dies in them to leave his power
hammer free for general work.
-jsw


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On Friday, February 1, 2019 at 1:11:19 AM UTC-5, Cydrome Leader wrote:
It's some sort of press with a heavy wheel that spins back and forth and
presses on the work using a heavy screw.

No audio needed, just watch about 10 seconds

https://youtu.be/CLcAms8GgeM?t=427

What's the history of these, any is it something uncommon in the US?


That's a "fly press": a flywheel screw press. No, they aren't common in the US. Apparently they've been around for a long time in forge shops in other parts of the world, including Europe.

I never saw one but I remember seeing photos when I was an editor at American Machinist, back in the '70s.

--
Ed Huntress
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On Fri, 1 Feb 2019 06:11:16 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

It's some sort of press with a heavy wheel that spins back and forth and
presses on the work using a heavy screw.

No audio needed, just watch about 10 seconds

https://youtu.be/CLcAms8GgeM?t=427

What's the history of these, any is it something uncommon in the US?

I'd call it a "rotary inertia" or "worm gear inertia" press and it
is not common in North America from what I've seen.
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On Fri, 01 Feb 2019 10:13:12 -0500
Clare Snyder wrote:

On Fri, 1 Feb 2019 06:11:16 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

It's some sort of press with a heavy wheel that spins back and forth and
presses on the work using a heavy screw.

No audio needed, just watch about 10 seconds

https://youtu.be/CLcAms8GgeM?t=427

What's the history of these, any is it something uncommon in the US?

I'd call it a "rotary inertia" or "worm gear inertia" press and it
is not common in North America from what I've seen.


That's because Andrew has been hoarding them all in Texas:

https://www.instagram.com/blacksmith...p/BYjxXCmjvtY/

Seriously though, he would be a good one to call if you want one. He
seems to come across them pretty often...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI



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On Fri, 1 Feb 2019 06:11:16 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

It's some sort of press with a heavy wheel that spins back and forth and
presses on the work using a heavy screw.

No audio needed, just watch about 10 seconds

https://youtu.be/CLcAms8GgeM?t=427

What's the history of these, any is it something uncommon in the US?


**** thats old school! 1800s technology. Has to be a bitch to set for
travel as well.

They were very common at one time...but they are tough to setup, hard
to stop, and as a result..incredibly unsafe.

Hence..they are not used in the US anymore..and havent been for
probably 100 yrs

__

"Poor widdle Wudy...mentally ill, lies constantly, doesnt know who he is, or even what gender "he" is.

No more pathetic creature has ever walked the earth. But...he is locked into a mental hospital for the safety of the public.

Which is a very good thing."

Asun rauhassa, valmistaudun sotaan.


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On Sat, 2 Feb 2019 00:19:54 +0000, David Billington
wrote:

On 01/02/2019 06:11, Cydrome Leader wrote:
It's some sort of press with a heavy wheel that spins back and forth and
presses on the work using a heavy screw.

No audio needed, just watch about 10 seconds

https://youtu.be/CLcAms8GgeM?t=427

What's the history of these, any is it something uncommon in the US?

I've not seen a powered one like that but it's basically a fly press as
others have mentioned. For manual operation they're quite nice as you
get a feel for the energy input required to do the job so you adjust
accordingly. I have one and they're quite common in the UK. The pic
posted of a bunch of them in Texas looks a lot like Norton or Sweeney &
Blocksidge but I expect they were made in the US as well.


What do the heavy balls do for getting a feel for the work?

__

"Poor widdle Wudy...mentally ill, lies constantly, doesnt know who he is, or even what gender "he" is.

No more pathetic creature has ever walked the earth. But...he is locked into a mental hospital for the safety of the public.

Which is a very good thing."

Asun rauhassa, valmistaudun sotaan.


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"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 1 Feb 2019 06:11:16 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

It's some sort of press with a heavy wheel that spins back and forth
and
presses on the work using a heavy screw.

No audio needed, just watch about 10 seconds

https://youtu.be/CLcAms8GgeM?t=427

What's the history of these, any is it something uncommon in the US?


**** thats old school! 1800s technology. Has to be a bitch to set
for
travel as well.

They were very common at one time...but they are tough to setup,
hard
to stop, and as a result..incredibly unsafe.

Hence..they are not used in the US anymore..and havent been for
probably 100 yrs


From what little I saw the top die descends until the workpiece stops
it, which suits them to stamping identical repetitive details on
batches of variably thick hand-forged parts for wrought-iron railings
etc. I think an arbor press would be as or more useful to a machinist.


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Gunner Asch on Fri, 01 Feb 2019 15:23:43 -0800
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Fri, 1 Feb 2019 06:11:16 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

It's some sort of press with a heavy wheel that spins back and forth and
presses on the work using a heavy screw.

No audio needed, just watch about 10 seconds

https://youtu.be/CLcAms8GgeM?t=427

What's the history of these, any is it something uncommon in the US?


**** thats old school! 1800s technology. Has to be a bitch to set for
travel as well.


Can you imagine the working conditions which made this an
improvement?

I mean, - the alternative is hitting them with a hammer.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."
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On Fri, 01 Feb 2019 18:14:18 -0800, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Gunner Asch on Fri, 01 Feb 2019 15:23:43 -0800
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Fri, 1 Feb 2019 06:11:16 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

It's some sort of press with a heavy wheel that spins back and forth and
presses on the work using a heavy screw.

No audio needed, just watch about 10 seconds

https://youtu.be/CLcAms8GgeM?t=427

What's the history of these, any is it something uncommon in the US?


**** thats old school! 1800s technology. Has to be a bitch to set for
travel as well.


Can you imagine the working conditions which made this an
improvement?

I mean, - the alternative is hitting them with a hammer.



I always loved this one...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yL1AgOqnYYE


On a side note...this is cool .....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jHbI_B2sPA0

__

"Poor widdle Wudy...mentally ill, lies constantly, doesnt know who he is, or even what gender "he" is.

No more pathetic creature has ever walked the earth. But...he is locked into a mental hospital for the safety of the public.

Which is a very good thing."

Asun rauhassa, valmistaudun sotaan.


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David Billington writes:

I've not seen a powered one like that but it's basically a fly press as
others have mentioned. For manual operation they're quite nice as you
get a feel for the energy input required to do the job so you adjust
accordingly. I have one and they're quite common in the UK. The pic
posted of a bunch of them in Texas looks a lot like Norton or Sweeney &
Blocksidge but I expect they were made in the US as well.


The Brit blacksmiths love fly presses and Blacker hammers, both of
which are like hen's teeth in Leftpondia. Another use was
architectural ceramics: clay, damp but not wet, was put into a
mould/form and rammed with a flypress, then fired. Apparently a way
to force the items to retain dimension, not so easy with wet clay.

AFAIK, some flypresses have a simple screw but the one I had a close
look at Britain had a two-pitch screw, ingenious and very effective.

Details, photo and diagram he

http://home.tallships.ca/mspencer/nut.html

Retired but I'd still love to have one to mess about with.

Some other smithing oddments if yer interested:

http://home.tallships.ca/mspencer/tools.html


--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
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On 02/02/2019 06:36, Mike Spencer wrote:
David Billington writes:

I've not seen a powered one like that but it's basically a fly press as
others have mentioned. For manual operation they're quite nice as you
get a feel for the energy input required to do the job so you adjust
accordingly. I have one and they're quite common in the UK. The pic
posted of a bunch of them in Texas looks a lot like Norton or Sweeney &
Blocksidge but I expect they were made in the US as well.

The Brit blacksmiths love fly presses and Blacker hammers, both of
which are like hen's teeth in Leftpondia. Another use was
architectural ceramics: clay, damp but not wet, was put into a
mould/form and rammed with a flypress, then fired. Apparently a way
to force the items to retain dimension, not so easy with wet clay.

AFAIK, some flypresses have a simple screw but the one I had a close
look at Britain had a two-pitch screw, ingenious and very effective.

Details, photo and diagram he

http://home.tallships.ca/mspencer/nut.html

Retired but I'd still love to have one to mess about with.

Some other smithing oddments if yer interested:

http://home.tallships.ca/mspencer/tools.html


My Sweeney & Blocksidge has a 2 pitch screw but that is quite normal for
many makes. The coarse thread is what applies the force and the fine
thread is at the upper end of the screw and is what the stop collar fits
to to allow fine adjustment of the ram travel.

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On 02/02/2019 00:26, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 2 Feb 2019 00:19:54 +0000, David Billington
wrote:

On 01/02/2019 06:11, Cydrome Leader wrote:
It's some sort of press with a heavy wheel that spins back and forth and
presses on the work using a heavy screw.

No audio needed, just watch about 10 seconds

https://youtu.be/CLcAms8GgeM?t=427

What's the history of these, any is it something uncommon in the US?

I've not seen a powered one like that but it's basically a fly press as
others have mentioned. For manual operation they're quite nice as you
get a feel for the energy input required to do the job so you adjust
accordingly. I have one and they're quite common in the UK. The pic
posted of a bunch of them in Texas looks a lot like Norton or Sweeney &
Blocksidge but I expect they were made in the US as well.

What do the heavy balls do for getting a feel for the work?


The balls just store the energy you apply to the handle when swinging it
around and that energy is released when the tooling strikes the work.
It's normal to keep a hold of the handle so you feel the interaction
between the tool and work, not always required but it's nice for some
things. The balls and fly presses come in different sizes depending on
the job requirement. The ram runs in precision guides so location is
consistent which is useful for thing such as punches and dies which I
have a decent selection of, once the bolster has been located to hold
the die the punches and dies can be swapped quickly and easily which is
really useful for the likes of punching holes in sheet metal.

They still make the things new in the UK
https://www.jameswshenton.co.uk/norton-presses-ccm5 .



__

"Poor widdle Wudy...mentally ill, lies constantly, doesnt know who he is, or even what gender "he" is.

No more pathetic creature has ever walked the earth. But...he is locked into a mental hospital for the safety of the public.

Which is a very good thing."

Asun rauhassa, valmistaudun sotaan.


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Default what type of press is this?

On Sat, 2 Feb 2019 20:08:20 +0000, David Billington
wrote:

On 02/02/2019 00:26, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 2 Feb 2019 00:19:54 +0000, David Billington
wrote:

On 01/02/2019 06:11, Cydrome Leader wrote:
It's some sort of press with a heavy wheel that spins back and forth and
presses on the work using a heavy screw.

No audio needed, just watch about 10 seconds

https://youtu.be/CLcAms8GgeM?t=427

What's the history of these, any is it something uncommon in the US?

I've not seen a powered one like that but it's basically a fly press as
others have mentioned. For manual operation they're quite nice as you
get a feel for the energy input required to do the job so you adjust
accordingly. I have one and they're quite common in the UK. The pic
posted of a bunch of them in Texas looks a lot like Norton or Sweeney &
Blocksidge but I expect they were made in the US as well.

What do the heavy balls do for getting a feel for the work?


The balls just store the energy you apply to the handle when swinging it
around and that energy is released when the tooling strikes the work.
It's normal to keep a hold of the handle so you feel the interaction
between the tool and work, not always required but it's nice for some
things. The balls and fly presses come in different sizes depending on
the job requirement. The ram runs in precision guides so location is
consistent which is useful for thing such as punches and dies which I
have a decent selection of, once the bolster has been located to hold
the die the punches and dies can be swapped quickly and easily which is
really useful for the likes of punching holes in sheet metal.

They still make the things new in the UK
https://www.jameswshenton.co.uk/norton-presses-ccm5 .

After putting my pea sized brain to it..I can see some processes where
they would be handy indeed.

I have a Dumont 5 ton broaching arbor press and a 60 ton hydraulic
press...plus a handful of small arbor presses....and of course a
couple sets of Greenlee hydraulic hole punch dies and hand pumped
power sources. Is there any reason for me to find one of those
presses as you discussed? If so..I will most certainly start hunting
for one;

Thanks!!




__

"Poor widdle Wudy...mentally ill, lies constantly, doesnt know who he is, or even what gender "he" is.

No more pathetic creature has ever walked the earth. But...he is locked into a mental hospital for the safety of the public.

Which is a very good thing."

Asun rauhassa, valmistaudun sotaan.


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__

"Poor widdle Wudy...mentally ill, lies constantly, doesnt know who he is, or even what gender "he" is.

No more pathetic creature has ever walked the earth. But...he is locked into a mental hospital for the safety of the public.

Which is a very good thing."

Asun rauhassa, valmistaudun sotaan.

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"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 2 Feb 2019 20:08:20 +0000, David Billington

wrote:

On 02/02/2019 00:26, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 2 Feb 2019 00:19:54 +0000, David Billington

wrote:

On 01/02/2019 06:11, Cydrome Leader wrote:
It's some sort of press with a heavy wheel that spins back and
forth and
presses on the work using a heavy screw.

No audio needed, just watch about 10 seconds

https://youtu.be/CLcAms8GgeM?t=427

What's the history of these, any is it something uncommon in the
US?

I've not seen a powered one like that but it's basically a fly
press as
others have mentioned. For manual operation they're quite nice as
you
get a feel for the energy input required to do the job so you
adjust
accordingly. I have one and they're quite common in the UK. The
pic
posted of a bunch of them in Texas looks a lot like Norton or
Sweeney &
Blocksidge but I expect they were made in the US as well.
What do the heavy balls do for getting a feel for the work?


The balls just store the energy you apply to the handle when
swinging it
around and that energy is released when the tooling strikes the
work.
It's normal to keep a hold of the handle so you feel the interaction
between the tool and work, not always required but it's nice for
some
things. The balls and fly presses come in different sizes depending
on
the job requirement. The ram runs in precision guides so location is
consistent which is useful for thing such as punches and dies which
I
have a decent selection of, once the bolster has been located to
hold
the die the punches and dies can be swapped quickly and easily which
is
really useful for the likes of punching holes in sheet metal.

They still make the things new in the UK
https://www.jameswshenton.co.uk/norton-presses-ccm5 .

After putting my pea sized brain to it..I can see some processes
where
they would be handy indeed.

I have a Dumont 5 ton broaching arbor press and a 60 ton hydraulic
press...plus a handful of small arbor presses....and of course a
couple sets of Greenlee hydraulic hole punch dies and hand pumped
power sources. Is there any reason for me to find one of those
presses as you discussed? If so..I will most certainly start hunting
for one;

Thanks!!


I'd rather dedicate the shop space to one of these:
https://www.roperwhitney.com/our-pro...h-deep-throat/





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Leon Fisk on Fri, 1 Feb 2019 15:40:31 -0400
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Fri, 01 Feb 2019 10:13:12 -0500
Clare Snyder wrote:

On Fri, 1 Feb 2019 06:11:16 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

It's some sort of press with a heavy wheel that spins back and forth and
presses on the work using a heavy screw.

No audio needed, just watch about 10 seconds

https://youtu.be/CLcAms8GgeM?t=427

What's the history of these, any is it something uncommon in the US?

I'd call it a "rotary inertia" or "worm gear inertia" press and it
is not common in North America from what I've seen.


That's because Andrew has been hoarding them all in Texas:

https://www.instagram.com/blacksmith...p/BYjxXCmjvtY/

Seriously though, he would be a good one to call if you want one. He
seems to come across them pretty often...


Looks like a stamping press. In this case, knocking out 'flatware.
Put the blank in it,down comes the die, up goes the die, out comes the
spoon / fork. FWIW, Krupp Steel started out supplying those dies.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."
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"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
...
Leon Fisk on Fri, 1 Feb 2019 15:40:31 -0400
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Fri, 01 Feb 2019 10:13:12 -0500
Clare Snyder wrote:

On Fri, 1 Feb 2019 06:11:16 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

It's some sort of press with a heavy wheel that spins back and
forth and
presses on the work using a heavy screw.

No audio needed, just watch about 10 seconds

https://youtu.be/CLcAms8GgeM?t=427

What's the history of these, any is it something uncommon in the
US?
I'd call it a "rotary inertia" or "worm gear inertia" press and
it
is not common in North America from what I've seen.


That's because Andrew has been hoarding them all in Texas:

https://www.instagram.com/blacksmith...p/BYjxXCmjvtY/

Seriously though, he would be a good one to call if you want one. He
seems to come across them pretty often...


Looks like a stamping press. In this case, knocking out 'flatware.
Put the blank in it,down comes the die, up goes the die, out comes
the
spoon / fork. FWIW, Krupp Steel started out supplying those dies.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."


They were wise to be ready for either war or peace.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns_versus_butter_model



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On 03/02/2019 01:06, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 2 Feb 2019 20:08:20 +0000, David Billington

wrote:

On 02/02/2019 00:26, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 2 Feb 2019 00:19:54 +0000, David Billington

wrote:

On 01/02/2019 06:11, Cydrome Leader wrote:
It's some sort of press with a heavy wheel that spins back and
forth and
presses on the work using a heavy screw.

No audio needed, just watch about 10 seconds

https://youtu.be/CLcAms8GgeM?t=427

What's the history of these, any is it something uncommon in the
US?

I've not seen a powered one like that but it's basically a fly
press as
others have mentioned. For manual operation they're quite nice as
you
get a feel for the energy input required to do the job so you
adjust
accordingly. I have one and they're quite common in the UK. The
pic
posted of a bunch of them in Texas looks a lot like Norton or
Sweeney &
Blocksidge but I expect they were made in the US as well.
What do the heavy balls do for getting a feel for the work?
The balls just store the energy you apply to the handle when
swinging it
around and that energy is released when the tooling strikes the
work.
It's normal to keep a hold of the handle so you feel the interaction
between the tool and work, not always required but it's nice for
some
things. The balls and fly presses come in different sizes depending
on
the job requirement. The ram runs in precision guides so location is
consistent which is useful for thing such as punches and dies which
I
have a decent selection of, once the bolster has been located to
hold
the die the punches and dies can be swapped quickly and easily which
is
really useful for the likes of punching holes in sheet metal.

They still make the things new in the UK
https://www.jameswshenton.co.uk/norton-presses-ccm5 .

After putting my pea sized brain to it..I can see some processes
where
they would be handy indeed.

I have a Dumont 5 ton broaching arbor press and a 60 ton hydraulic
press...plus a handful of small arbor presses....and of course a
couple sets of Greenlee hydraulic hole punch dies and hand pumped
power sources. Is there any reason for me to find one of those
presses as you discussed? If so..I will most certainly start hunting
for one;

Thanks!!

I'd rather dedicate the shop space to one of these:
https://www.roperwhitney.com/our-pro...h-deep-throat/



Nice but I think a fly press is far more versatile especially if you can
make you own tooling. I use mine for punching but also forming,
shrinking, bending, punching louvres.

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"Jim Wilkins" on Sun, 3 Feb 2019 09:28:32 -0500
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
.. .
Leon Fisk on Fri, 1 Feb 2019 15:40:31 -0400
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Fri, 01 Feb 2019 10:13:12 -0500
Clare Snyder wrote:

On Fri, 1 Feb 2019 06:11:16 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

It's some sort of press with a heavy wheel that spins back and
forth and
presses on the work using a heavy screw.

No audio needed, just watch about 10 seconds

https://youtu.be/CLcAms8GgeM?t=427

What's the history of these, any is it something uncommon in the
US?
I'd call it a "rotary inertia" or "worm gear inertia" press and
it
is not common in North America from what I've seen.

That's because Andrew has been hoarding them all in Texas:

https://www.instagram.com/blacksmith...p/BYjxXCmjvtY/

Seriously though, he would be a good one to call if you want one. He
seems to come across them pretty often...


Looks like a stamping press. In this case, knocking out 'flatware.
Put the blank in it,down comes the die, up goes the die, out comes
the
spoon / fork. FWIW, Krupp Steel started out supplying those dies.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."


They were wise to be ready for either war or peace.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns_versus_butter_model


But when he started, Herr Krupp wasn't the Industrial Powerhouse.
Rather a bit of the opposite. E.G., his first mill used water wheels
to power the drop hammer (SOP at the time). Which he put on a stream
which didn't have enough flow year round.

--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."
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"David Billington" wrote in message
...
On 03/02/2019 01:06, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 2 Feb 2019 20:08:20 +0000, David Billington

wrote:

On 02/02/2019 00:26, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 2 Feb 2019 00:19:54 +0000, David Billington

wrote:

On 01/02/2019 06:11, Cydrome Leader wrote:
It's some sort of press with a heavy wheel that spins back and
forth and
presses on the work using a heavy screw.

No audio needed, just watch about 10 seconds

https://youtu.be/CLcAms8GgeM?t=427

What's the history of these, any is it something uncommon in
the
US?

I've not seen a powered one like that but it's basically a fly
press as
others have mentioned. For manual operation they're quite nice
as
you
get a feel for the energy input required to do the job so you
adjust
accordingly. I have one and they're quite common in the UK. The
pic
posted of a bunch of them in Texas looks a lot like Norton or
Sweeney &
Blocksidge but I expect they were made in the US as well.
What do the heavy balls do for getting a feel for the work?
The balls just store the energy you apply to the handle when
swinging it
around and that energy is released when the tooling strikes the
work.
It's normal to keep a hold of the handle so you feel the
interaction
between the tool and work, not always required but it's nice for
some
things. The balls and fly presses come in different sizes
depending
on
the job requirement. The ram runs in precision guides so location
is
consistent which is useful for thing such as punches and dies
which
I
have a decent selection of, once the bolster has been located to
hold
the die the punches and dies can be swapped quickly and easily
which
is
really useful for the likes of punching holes in sheet metal.

They still make the things new in the UK
https://www.jameswshenton.co.uk/norton-presses-ccm5 .

After putting my pea sized brain to it..I can see some processes
where
they would be handy indeed.

I have a Dumont 5 ton broaching arbor press and a 60 ton hydraulic
press...plus a handful of small arbor presses....and of course a
couple sets of Greenlee hydraulic hole punch dies and hand pumped
power sources. Is there any reason for me to find one of those
presses as you discussed? If so..I will most certainly start
hunting
for one;

Thanks!!

I'd rather dedicate the shop space to one of these:
https://www.roperwhitney.com/our-pro...h-deep-throat/



Nice but I think a fly press is far more versatile especially if you
can make you own tooling. I use mine for punching but also forming,
shrinking, bending, punching louvres.


I agree that the fly press is a fast and convenient way to do those
jobs if you have one, but it isn't the only way, and it consumes a lot
of space on a heavy duty bench. I've hammered louvers into a shop-made
stainless steel replacement catalytic converter heat shield using a
formed block between the vise jaws as the lower die and rounded bar
stock as the punch, after slitting the metal between punched end holes
with a cold chisel. The result fit together well, didn't rattle, and
was pretty enough for where it goes.

When I took the blacksmithing class I carefully considered what his
equipment and methods could do, versus what I need and already have in
my shop. I think my arbor and hydraulic presses are adequate if slower
substitutes for a fly press, since I don't do hot die forging and
could make a spring swage that fits the anvil's hardy hole if I ever
wanted to. The blacksmith had his largest fly press set up to finish
round tenons on the ends of railing sections, a job my lathe could
handle.
https://www.blacksmithsdepot.com/pro...ng-swages.html

This describes the work of each trade in a shipyard.
https://www.amazon.com/Yard-Building.../dp/0060929634
The only part that the blacksmith needs to forge hot is the end of
stair handrails, all other curved steel on the ship can be bent cold.

-jsw




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"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
...
"Jim Wilkins" on Sun, 3 Feb 2019
09:28:32 -0500
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
. ..
Leon Fisk on Fri, 1 Feb 2019
15:40:31 -0400
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Fri, 01 Feb 2019 10:13:12 -0500
Clare Snyder wrote:

On Fri, 1 Feb 2019 06:11:16 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

It's some sort of press with a heavy wheel that spins back and
forth and
presses on the work using a heavy screw.

No audio needed, just watch about 10 seconds

https://youtu.be/CLcAms8GgeM?t=427

What's the history of these, any is it something uncommon in the
US?
I'd call it a "rotary inertia" or "worm gear inertia" press and
it
is not common in North America from what I've seen.

That's because Andrew has been hoarding them all in Texas:

https://www.instagram.com/blacksmith...p/BYjxXCmjvtY/

Seriously though, he would be a good one to call if you want one.
He
seems to come across them pretty often...

Looks like a stamping press. In this case, knocking out 'flatware.
Put the blank in it,down comes the die, up goes the die, out comes
the
spoon / fork. FWIW, Krupp Steel started out supplying those dies.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels
alone."


They were wise to be ready for either war or peace.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns_versus_butter_model


But when he started, Herr Krupp wasn't the Industrial Powerhouse.
Rather a bit of the opposite. E.G., his first mill used water wheels
to power the drop hammer (SOP at the time). Which he put on a
stream
which didn't have enough flow year round.

--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."


New England has preserved some of that history. We took a school trip
to this place not long after it was restored and they demonstrated the
waterwheels and trip hammer and explained the tedious process of
squeezing the slag out of a bloom of iron, one of which they had on
display.
https://www.engr.psu.edu/mtah/photos/photos_saugus.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor..._Historic_Site

When I was little my father bought lumber to repair our 1830 house at
a water-powered sawmill.
-jsw


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wrote:
On Friday, February 1, 2019 at 1:11:19 AM UTC-5, Cydrome Leader wrote:
It's some sort of press with a heavy wheel that spins back and forth and
presses on the work using a heavy screw.

No audio needed, just watch about 10 seconds

https://youtu.be/CLcAms8GgeM?t=427

What's the history of these, any is it something uncommon in the US?


That's a "fly press": a flywheel screw press. No, they aren't common in the US. Apparently they've been around for a long time in forge shops in other parts of the world, including Europe.

I never saw one but I remember seeing photos when I was an editor at American Machinist, back in the '70s.


Interesting.

Are there other regional variations of "basic" machines like presses that
still do the same job in the end?

Sort of like how germans were obsessed with slotted screws for absolutely
everything forever?





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On Sunday, February 3, 2019 at 8:20:35 PM UTC-5, Cydrome Leader wrote:
wrote:
On Friday, February 1, 2019 at 1:11:19 AM UTC-5, Cydrome Leader wrote:
It's some sort of press with a heavy wheel that spins back and forth and
presses on the work using a heavy screw.

No audio needed, just watch about 10 seconds

https://youtu.be/CLcAms8GgeM?t=427

What's the history of these, any is it something uncommon in the US?


That's a "fly press": a flywheel screw press. No, they aren't common in the US. Apparently they've been around for a long time in forge shops in other parts of the world, including Europe.

I never saw one but I remember seeing photos when I was an editor at American Machinist, back in the '70s.


Interesting.

Are there other regional variations of "basic" machines like presses that
still do the same job in the end?

Sort of like how germans were obsessed with slotted screws for absolutely
everything forever?


I can't think of anything in particular. There are some cases of machine types being associated with the products they make, and the regional emphasis on those products. For example, horological lathes initially were associated with the UK, IIRC, and then Switzerland dominated that business. From what I saw years ago, Switzerland seemed to have an overwhelming number of those little lathes. Lens grinding and polishing machines in Germmany, then in Japan, etc.

--
Ed Huntress
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Default what type of press is this?

wrote in message
...
On Sunday, February 3, 2019 at 8:20:35 PM UTC-5, Cydrome Leader wrote:
wrote:
On Friday, February 1, 2019 at 1:11:19 AM UTC-5, Cydrome Leader
wrote:
It's some sort of press with a heavy wheel that spins back and
forth and
presses on the work using a heavy screw.

No audio needed, just watch about 10 seconds

https://youtu.be/CLcAms8GgeM?t=427

What's the history of these, any is it something uncommon in the
US?


That's a "fly press": a flywheel screw press. No, they aren't
common in the US. Apparently they've been around for a long time
in forge shops in other parts of the world, including Europe.

I never saw one but I remember seeing photos when I was an editor
at American Machinist, back in the '70s.


Interesting.

Are there other regional variations of "basic" machines like presses
that
still do the same job in the end?

Sort of like how germans were obsessed with slotted screws for
absolutely
everything forever?


I can't think of anything in particular. There are some cases of
machine types being associated with the products they make, and the
regional emphasis on those products. For example, horological lathes
initially were associated with the UK, IIRC, and then Switzerland
dominated that business. From what I saw years ago, Switzerland seemed
to have an overwhelming number of those little lathes. Lens grinding
and polishing machines in Germmany, then in Japan, etc.

--
Ed Huntress

===================

"Oil country" lathes.

Chinese blacksmith bellows are quite different from Western ones.

Horizontal blast forges.

Tap sets with progressively increasing depths of cut.

Cycloidal versus involute gear teeth.

The Multifix lathe tool post.
http://www.lathes.co.uk/multifix/

Swiss style lathes.
https://www.ksiswiss.com/swiss-style-lathe/

Japanese pull saws, Westerners push them.

Europeans worked standing, Asians sitting. According to Holtzapffel,
in India lathe tools were traditionally held between the toes with the
heel resting on the ground while the arms worked the cords that turned
the spindle.

Perhps the most significant difference is that while the western
frontier was open eastern America couldn't retain the abundance of
skilled craftsmen available in Europe and developed semi- and then
fully-automated production machines instead. The cam-operated
automatic lathe that could spit out parts without an operator dates
from the 1870's.

-jsw


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Default what type of press is this?

On Sun, 3 Feb 2019 13:54:17 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
.. .
"Jim Wilkins" on Sun, 3 Feb 2019
09:28:32 -0500
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
...
Leon Fisk on Fri, 1 Feb 2019
15:40:31 -0400
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Fri, 01 Feb 2019 10:13:12 -0500
Clare Snyder wrote:

On Fri, 1 Feb 2019 06:11:16 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

It's some sort of press with a heavy wheel that spins back and
forth and
presses on the work using a heavy screw.

No audio needed, just watch about 10 seconds

https://youtu.be/CLcAms8GgeM?t=427

What's the history of these, any is it something uncommon in the
US?
I'd call it a "rotary inertia" or "worm gear inertia" press and
it
is not common in North America from what I've seen.

That's because Andrew has been hoarding them all in Texas:

https://www.instagram.com/blacksmith...p/BYjxXCmjvtY/

Seriously though, he would be a good one to call if you want one.
He
seems to come across them pretty often...

Looks like a stamping press. In this case, knocking out 'flatware.
Put the blank in it,down comes the die, up goes the die, out comes
the
spoon / fork. FWIW, Krupp Steel started out supplying those dies.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels
alone."

They were wise to be ready for either war or peace.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns_versus_butter_model


But when he started, Herr Krupp wasn't the Industrial Powerhouse.
Rather a bit of the opposite. E.G., his first mill used water wheels
to power the drop hammer (SOP at the time). Which he put on a
stream
which didn't have enough flow year round.

--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."


New England has preserved some of that history. We took a school trip
to this place not long after it was restored and they demonstrated the
waterwheels and trip hammer and explained the tedious process of
squeezing the slag out of a bloom of iron, one of which they had on
display.
https://www.engr.psu.edu/mtah/photos/photos_saugus.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor..._Historic_Site

When I was little my father bought lumber to repair our 1830 house at
a water-powered sawmill.
-jsw

The house I was raised in, was built with exterior walls of two layers
of white pine planks on end. these planks were 24 to 36 inches wide, 2
1/2 inches thick and up to 20 feet long. The trees were cut on the
property and floated down the river to a water powered mill much like
the Taylor Mill with the vertical saw powered by an undershot wheel.
This mill combined the saw mill, a planing mill and a grist mill. I
never saw the mill but remember well the stone fillled cribs of the
dam and flume. We used to use the cast grinding plates from the grist
mill as a boat anchor.
The site was washed away in the early '50's when an ice jam combined
with driftwood in the forebay of the dam gave way and spread
everything downstream.


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"Gerry" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 3 Feb 2019 13:54:17 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


The house I was raised in, was built with exterior walls of two
layers
of white pine planks on end. these planks were 24 to 36 inches wide,
2
1/2 inches thick and up to 20 feet long. The trees were cut on the
property and floated down the river to a water powered mill much
like
the Taylor Mill with the vertical saw powered by an undershot wheel.
This mill combined the saw mill, a planing mill and a grist mill. I
never saw the mill but remember well the stone fillled cribs of the
dam and flume. We used to use the cast grinding plates from the
grist
mill as a boat anchor.
The site was washed away in the early '50's when an ice jam combined
with driftwood in the forebay of the dam gave way and spread
everything downstream.


This private NH Christian high school teaches both male and female
students the skills needed to restore or duplicate New England
structures from the 1700 and 1800's in their original style.
http://www.turnermills.com/JesseRemingtonArticle.pdf

Last fall the fair had an exhibit of cutting pine planks as large as
yours with a chainsaw running on guides, like the Alaskan mill that
Northern sells but bigger. A couple of huge planks were still there
during the ham radio flea market a few weeks later.

My sister and her husband have repaired and extended their 17xx Maine
farm house using pegged post and beam construction, though not with
timbers that large.

I sized the bandsaw mill I built for 20" logs based on the largest
trees left in the neighborhood and have had to chainsaw slabs off the
stump end of oaks that had been leaning over the house to fit it.
Instead of full width planks I've been cutting each log section into
two 6" x 12" by 12' beams to store the wood in the form of shed
frames. The logs and rough cut beams (cants) dry evenly without
cracking too much if the ends are painted with melted toilet ring wax,
which unlike paraffin wax is flexible enough to not crack open as the
weather changes.

-jsw


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Default what type of press is this?

On Sun, 3 Feb 2019 13:54:17 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
.. .
"Jim Wilkins" on Sun, 3 Feb 2019
09:28:32 -0500
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
...
Leon Fisk on Fri, 1 Feb 2019
15:40:31 -0400
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Fri, 01 Feb 2019 10:13:12 -0500
Clare Snyder wrote:

On Fri, 1 Feb 2019 06:11:16 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

It's some sort of press with a heavy wheel that spins back and
forth and
presses on the work using a heavy screw.

No audio needed, just watch about 10 seconds

https://youtu.be/CLcAms8GgeM?t=427

What's the history of these, any is it something uncommon in the
US?
I'd call it a "rotary inertia" or "worm gear inertia" press and
it
is not common in North America from what I've seen.

That's because Andrew has been hoarding them all in Texas:

https://www.instagram.com/blacksmith...p/BYjxXCmjvtY/

Seriously though, he would be a good one to call if you want one.
He
seems to come across them pretty often...

Looks like a stamping press. In this case, knocking out 'flatware.
Put the blank in it,down comes the die, up goes the die, out comes
the
spoon / fork. FWIW, Krupp Steel started out supplying those dies.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels
alone."

They were wise to be ready for either war or peace.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns_versus_butter_model


But when he started, Herr Krupp wasn't the Industrial Powerhouse.
Rather a bit of the opposite. E.G., his first mill used water wheels
to power the drop hammer (SOP at the time). Which he put on a
stream
which didn't have enough flow year round.

--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."


New England has preserved some of that history. We took a school trip
to this place not long after it was restored and they demonstrated the
waterwheels and trip hammer and explained the tedious process of
squeezing the slag out of a bloom of iron, one of which they had on
display.
https://www.engr.psu.edu/mtah/photos/photos_saugus.htm

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taylor..._Historic_Site

When I was little my father bought lumber to repair our 1830 house at
a water-powered sawmill.


Really cool.

--
"I have noticed even people who claim everything is predestined
and that we can do nothing to change it look before they cross
the road." --Steven Hawking
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"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 3 Feb 2019 13:54:17 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


When I was little my father bought lumber to repair our 1830 house
at
a water-powered sawmill.


Really cool.


The sawmill was a commercial operation. I didn't realize it was
powered by water until they opened a hatch in the floor and showed me
the Francis turbine in the stream under the building. The dam, pond
and an ice house were on the other side of the road.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_turbine

Unlike a vertical wooden water wheel, a Francis turbine in operation
is as picturesque as a garbage disposal. There are others still
generating micro-hydro electricity around here, including one under
the mill building space the blacksmith rents.
https://www.des.nh.gov/organization/...nts/notado.pdf
Notice how many small dams are or were a hydropower generating
facility.


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Larry Jaques writes:

On Sun, 3 Feb 2019 13:54:17 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

New England has preserved some of that history. We took a school trip
to this place not long after it was restored and they demonstrated the
waterwheels and trip hammer and explained the tedious process of
squeezing the slag out of a bloom of iron, one of which they had on
display.
https://www.engr.psu.edu/mtah/photos/photos_saugus.htm


The Saugus Ironworks is really cool. After the American Iron & Steel
Institute paid for the archaeology and restoration, they ran the
blast furnace and finery/chafery at least once. They made a docu
movie which has footage of the furnace running and operating the huge
helve hammer. (Sadly, only about 30 sec. of each.) Then they turned it
over to the US National Park Service which allowed everything to
deteriorate. When I visited, late 80s IIRC, the hammer could be run
but much of the works was inoperable. The water wheels run on water
pumped from the river below because the former mill pond is now a
heavily built up residential area. Big ol' pump concealed in the
restored "coal shed".

As intriguing as the actual site is, the it is equally so that they
could organize it at all when the England, the source of the money,
technology and skills was engaged in a furious and bloody civil war
over religion, politics, regicide and other unpleasantnesses.

In any event, they managed to bring the latest iron-making technology
to the wilderness, a technical success if not a capitalist one.

When I was little my father bought lumber to repair our 1830 house at
a water-powered sawmill.


Really cool.


Our 1860-1880 house has vertical 3" thick hemlock plank walls, cut on
an up-and-down saw. Allegedly there was such a saw in operation in a
nearby village until the 1930s. There is still an oar & handle mill
at the mill pond there. The present owner has hopes of restoring the
head race, repairing the gates and running it on water. The turbine
is still functional as it was in operation as recently as the late
70s. Turbines were far more common here than water wheels because
most mill ponds were in relatively flat country rather than having
numerous deep defiles with streams at the bottom -- low dams, low head
but plenty of head for a vertical shaft cast iron turbine.


--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
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"Mike Spencer" wrote in message
...

Larry Jaques writes:

On Sun, 3 Feb 2019 13:54:17 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

New England has preserved some of that history. We took a school
trip
to this place not long after it was restored and they demonstrated
the
waterwheels and trip hammer and explained the tedious process of
squeezing the slag out of a bloom of iron, one of which they had
on
display.
https://www.engr.psu.edu/mtah/photos/photos_saugus.htm


The Saugus Ironworks is really cool. After the American Iron &
Steel
Institute paid for the archaeology and restoration, they ran the
blast furnace and finery/chafery at least once. They made a docu
movie which has footage of the furnace running and operating the
huge
helve hammer. (Sadly, only about 30 sec. of each.) Then they turned
it
over to the US National Park Service which allowed everything to
deteriorate. When I visited, late 80s IIRC, the hammer could be run
but much of the works was inoperable. The water wheels run on water
pumped from the river below because the former mill pond is now a
heavily built up residential area. Big ol' pump concealed in the
restored "coal shed".
..........
--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada


I remember thinking the hammer drive didn't seem built to withstand
much use, as I had made toy wooden models of machinery and seen how
fast wood rubbing surfaces wear.

The Taylor mill had more iron reinforcement on its wooden linkages and
much of it had worked loose, making the operation quite clanky. The
operator told me it had been assembled from salvaged mill parts and
wasn't really historically accurate. IIRC the fittings had been cast
instead of forged.

While he watched the saw the operator was splitting wooden shingles
with a ragged excuse for a froe. There was no maintenance fund to buy
a decent one. My first attempt to make them a froe is far below museum
quality. At least I got the parts I'd collected for a heat treating
oven assembled and working.

My father had an old Audel Millwrights and Mechanics Guide from his
time in the cotton mills so I had an idea of the work involved. If you
mastered all the skills in that book you could recreate civilization.

-jsw




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"Mike Spencer" wrote in message

Why do you think US and Canadian speech sounds almost identical yet so
different from British?



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"Jim Wilkins" writes:

"Mike Spencer" wrote in message

[I didn't write that; you did. :-]

Why do you think US and Canadian speech sounds almost identical yet so
different from British?


To the extent that's true, I'd assume the influence of the media.
Lots of US TV here in Canada, not so much from the UK. I haven't had
a TV for 40 years but I see it periodically over my dentist's chair.
Last time to the tooth wrangler, I realized US TV can be characterized
as "fat people yelling at each other". Unfair, I know, to programs
such as yoga classes but a fair first approximation?

But then...

Many up-scale folks in Toronto & Ottawa have inflections that sound to
people from other provinces as "kinda British". Rural people in Nova
Scotia didn't sound either Brit or Merkin 50 years ago, unique
Lunenburg (German influence) and Cape Breton (Scots and Gaelic)
pronounciation and usage. After moving here 50 years ago, I had to
learn that "C'mintha hice" was an invitation to enter. That's all
fading gradually away.

In 1980, I was on a bus filled with other blacksmiths proceeding from
Ironbridge to Hereford. A guy in the seat behind me -- a certified
Brit whose normal delivery was what I took to be UK upper-middle-class
urban -- was recounting a yarn to his seatmate in some particular
English regional dialect. It sounded exactly like the adults I knew
in (Leftpondian) New Hampshire 65 years ago.

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
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"Mike Spencer" wrote in message
...

"Jim Wilkins" writes:

"Mike Spencer" wrote in message

[I didn't write that; you did. :-]

Why do you think US and Canadian speech sounds almost identical yet
so
different from British?


To the extent that's true, I'd assume the influence of the media.
Lots of US TV here in Canada, not so much from the UK. I haven't
had
a TV for 40 years but I see it periodically over my dentist's chair.
Last time to the tooth wrangler, I realized US TV can be
characterized
as "fat people yelling at each other". Unfair, I know, to programs
such as yoga classes but a fair first approximation?

But then...

Many up-scale folks in Toronto & Ottawa have inflections that sound
to
people from other provinces as "kinda British". Rural people in
Nova
Scotia didn't sound either Brit or Merkin 50 years ago, unique
Lunenburg (German influence) and Cape Breton (Scots and Gaelic)
pronounciation and usage. After moving here 50 years ago, I had to
learn that "C'mintha hice" was an invitation to enter. That's all
fading gradually away.

In 1980, I was on a bus filled with other blacksmiths proceeding
from
Ironbridge to Hereford. A guy in the seat behind me -- a certified
Brit whose normal delivery was what I took to be UK
upper-middle-class
urban -- was recounting a yarn to his seatmate in some particular
English regional dialect. It sounded exactly like the adults I knew
in (Leftpondian) New Hampshire 65 years ago.

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada


My grandmother had the traditional New Hampshire accent but my mother
didn't, and my father had completely lost his southern Appalachian
accent, both before television. I think WW2 stirring the younger
people all together had a considerable effect. Chuck Yeager's
backwoods twang was said to be incomprehensible at first, then after
he gained fame many pilots imitated his drawl on the radio. In Atlanta
I noticed that network TV announcers spoke in the "standard"
Midwestern accent.

My real question is whether or not Canadians allowed themselves to be
influenced by USian speech. My impression is that like Quebecois we
are tolerated but not imitated.

http://www.bl.uk/learning/langlit/so...pronunciation/
Somewhere (haven't found it) I read that RP was an imitation of the
newly rich East Midlands mill owners and their public (USA: private)
school sons, a product of the Industrial Revolution that took hold
simultaneously with our Revolution, so that Americans who visited
London afterwards commented on the change while the USA and Canada
preserved the older accent.
-jsw


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"Mike Spencer" wrote in message
...

"Jim Wilkins" writes:

"Mike Spencer" wrote in message

[I didn't write that; you did. :-]

Why do you think US and Canadian speech sounds almost identical yet
so
different from British?


To the extent that's true, I'd assume the influence of the media.
Lots of US TV here in Canada, not so much from the UK. I haven't
had
a TV for 40 years but I see it periodically over my dentist's chair.
Last time to the tooth wrangler, I realized US TV can be
characterized
as "fat people yelling at each other". Unfair, I know, to programs
such as yoga classes but a fair first approximation?

But then...

Many up-scale folks in Toronto & Ottawa have inflections that sound
to
people from other provinces as "kinda British". Rural people in
Nova
Scotia didn't sound either Brit or Merkin 50 years ago, unique
Lunenburg (German influence) and Cape Breton (Scots and Gaelic)
pronounciation and usage. After moving here 50 years ago, I had to
learn that "C'mintha hice" was an invitation to enter. That's all
fading gradually away.


The PBS network presents BBC dramas like Masterpiece Theatre, Dr Who
and Downton Abbey, and David Attenborough narrates Nature, so we can
hear plenty of proper British if we choose to. The only Canadian show
I watched regularly was Forever Knight, set in Toronto. Geraint Wyn
Davies and Catherine Disher could be mistaken for Americans, Nigel
Bennet delivered his midnight radio host monologs as though he was
doing Shakespeare.
https://www.gryffonslair.com/fk/lccerks3.html

Others assumed various accents including Cockney. You might know Wyn
Davies from the Nova Scotia series Black Harbour.

-jsw


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On 07/02/2019 06:52, Mike Spencer wrote:
"Jim Wilkins" writes:

"Mike Spencer" wrote in message

[I didn't write that; you did. :-]

Why do you think US and Canadian speech sounds almost identical yet so
different from British?

To the extent that's true, I'd assume the influence of the media.
Lots of US TV here in Canada, not so much from the UK. I haven't had
a TV for 40 years but I see it periodically over my dentist's chair.
Last time to the tooth wrangler, I realized US TV can be characterized
as "fat people yelling at each other". Unfair, I know, to programs
such as yoga classes but a fair first approximation?

But then...

Many up-scale folks in Toronto & Ottawa have inflections that sound to
people from other provinces as "kinda British". Rural people in Nova
Scotia didn't sound either Brit or Merkin 50 years ago, unique
Lunenburg (German influence) and Cape Breton (Scots and Gaelic)
pronounciation and usage. After moving here 50 years ago, I had to
learn that "C'mintha hice" was an invitation to enter. That's all
fading gradually away.

In 1980, I was on a bus filled with other blacksmiths proceeding from
Ironbridge to Hereford. A guy in the seat behind me -- a certified
Brit whose normal delivery was what I took to be UK upper-middle-class
urban -- was recounting a yarn to his seatmate in some particular
English regional dialect. It sounded exactly like the adults I knew
in (Leftpondian) New Hampshire 65 years ago.

I think TV has an influence as a number of Dutch friends, especially
younger ones, speak English with a pronounced US accent and they have a
lot of US programs on Dutch TV.



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"Mike Spencer" wrote in message
...

"Jim Wilkins" writes:

"Mike Spencer" wrote in message

[I didn't write that; you did. :-]


Sorry, I forgot the ellipsis.


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"David Billington" wrote in message
...
On 07/02/2019 06:52, Mike Spencer wrote:
"Jim Wilkins" writes:

"Mike Spencer" wrote in message

[I didn't write that; you did. :-]

Why do you think US and Canadian speech sounds almost identical
yet so
different from British?

To the extent that's true, I'd assume the influence of the media.
Lots of US TV here in Canada, not so much from the UK. I haven't
had
a TV for 40 years but I see it periodically over my dentist's
chair.
Last time to the tooth wrangler, I realized US TV can be
characterized
as "fat people yelling at each other". Unfair, I know, to programs
such as yoga classes but a fair first approximation?

But then...

Many up-scale folks in Toronto & Ottawa have inflections that sound
to
people from other provinces as "kinda British". Rural people in
Nova
Scotia didn't sound either Brit or Merkin 50 years ago, unique
Lunenburg (German influence) and Cape Breton (Scots and Gaelic)
pronounciation and usage. After moving here 50 years ago, I had to
learn that "C'mintha hice" was an invitation to enter. That's all
fading gradually away.

In 1980, I was on a bus filled with other blacksmiths proceeding
from
Ironbridge to Hereford. A guy in the seat behind me -- a certified
Brit whose normal delivery was what I took to be UK
upper-middle-class
urban -- was recounting a yarn to his seatmate in some particular
English regional dialect. It sounded exactly like the adults I
knew
in (Leftpondian) New Hampshire 65 years ago.

I think TV has an influence as a number of Dutch friends, especially
younger ones, speak English with a pronounced US accent and they
have a lot of US programs on Dutch TV.


The Germans who spoke English sounded American too. Generally the
well-educated foreign English speakers I've met, such as from
Argentina and Africa, had British accents. I don't expect American to
be the world standard.



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On Thursday, February 7, 2019 at 11:37:30 AM UTC-5, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"David Billington" wrote in message
...
On 07/02/2019 06:52, Mike Spencer wrote:
"Jim Wilkins" writes:

"Mike Spencer" wrote in message

[I didn't write that; you did. :-]

Why do you think US and Canadian speech sounds almost identical
yet so
different from British?
To the extent that's true, I'd assume the influence of the media.
Lots of US TV here in Canada, not so much from the UK. I haven't
had
a TV for 40 years but I see it periodically over my dentist's
chair.
Last time to the tooth wrangler, I realized US TV can be
characterized
as "fat people yelling at each other". Unfair, I know, to programs
such as yoga classes but a fair first approximation?

But then...

Many up-scale folks in Toronto & Ottawa have inflections that sound
to
people from other provinces as "kinda British". Rural people in
Nova
Scotia didn't sound either Brit or Merkin 50 years ago, unique
Lunenburg (German influence) and Cape Breton (Scots and Gaelic)
pronounciation and usage. After moving here 50 years ago, I had to
learn that "C'mintha hice" was an invitation to enter. That's all
fading gradually away.

In 1980, I was on a bus filled with other blacksmiths proceeding
from
Ironbridge to Hereford. A guy in the seat behind me -- a certified
Brit whose normal delivery was what I took to be UK
upper-middle-class
urban -- was recounting a yarn to his seatmate in some particular
English regional dialect. It sounded exactly like the adults I
knew
in (Leftpondian) New Hampshire 65 years ago.

I think TV has an influence as a number of Dutch friends, especially
younger ones, speak English with a pronounced US accent and they
have a lot of US programs on Dutch TV.


The Germans who spoke English sounded American too. Generally the
well-educated foreign English speakers I've met, such as from
Argentina and Africa, had British accents. I don't expect American to
be the world standard.


A few decades ago, linguists were saying that the main influence that distinguished American English was that of German immigrants. The blended result was the general accent we Murkins have today.

I haven't checked to see if this opinion has remained the same in the years since.

Of course, there were many other influences as well, and a lot of regional differences that are slowly disappearing. For example, the area of New England from Providence to the north still tends toward non-rhotic ("r" is silent) pronunciations, except for those who came from southwestern England (like my ancestors).

--
Ed Huntress
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On Wednesday, February 6, 2019 at 5:34:54 AM UTC-8, Jim Wilkins wrote:
[about Saugus ironworks ]

I remember thinking the hammer drive didn't seem built to withstand
much use, as I had made toy wooden models of machinery and seen how
fast wood rubbing surfaces wear.


In the age of sail, the wood used for rubbing surfaces was lignum vitae
or similar; it wore rather better than one would expect.
And, it's endangered with very little available for modelmaking.

Some old eighteenth-century clocks with lignum vitae bearings
are still telling time.
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"whit3rd" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, February 6, 2019 at 5:34:54 AM UTC-8, Jim Wilkins
wrote:
[about Saugus ironworks ]

I remember thinking the hammer drive didn't seem built to withstand
much use, as I had made toy wooden models of machinery and seen how
fast wood rubbing surfaces wear.


In the age of sail, the wood used for rubbing surfaces was lignum
vitae
or similar; it wore rather better than one would expect.
And, it's endangered with very little available for modelmaking.

Some old eighteenth-century clocks with lignum vitae bearings
are still telling time.


https://lignumvitaesolutions.com/ind...rine-industry/

My family heirloom wooden-geared grandfather clock is still telling
the time every 6:03.

My memory of visiting the Saugus Iron Works some 60 years ago was that
it looked "authentic", ie crude, compared to the structure in our 1830
mill owner's house.


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