Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Old February 2nd 19, 07:36 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default what type of press is this?


David Billington writes:

I've not seen a powered one like that but it's basically a fly press as
others have mentioned. For manual operation they're quite nice as you
get a feel for the energy input required to do the job so you adjust
accordingly. I have one and they're quite common in the UK. The pic
posted of a bunch of them in Texas looks a lot like Norton or Sweeney &
Blocksidge but I expect they were made in the US as well.


The Brit blacksmiths love fly presses and Blacker hammers, both of
which are like hen's teeth in Leftpondia. Another use was
architectural ceramics: clay, damp but not wet, was put into a
mould/form and rammed with a flypress, then fired. Apparently a way
to force the items to retain dimension, not so easy with wet clay.

AFAIK, some flypresses have a simple screw but the one I had a close
look at Britain had a two-pitch screw, ingenious and very effective.

Details, photo and diagram he

http://home.tallships.ca/mspencer/nut.html

Retired but I'd still love to have one to mess about with.

Some other smithing oddments if yer interested:

http://home.tallships.ca/mspencer/tools.html


--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

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Old February 2nd 19, 10:32 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default what type of press is this?

On 02/02/2019 06:36, Mike Spencer wrote:
David Billington writes:

I've not seen a powered one like that but it's basically a fly press as
others have mentioned. For manual operation they're quite nice as you
get a feel for the energy input required to do the job so you adjust
accordingly. I have one and they're quite common in the UK. The pic
posted of a bunch of them in Texas looks a lot like Norton or Sweeney &
Blocksidge but I expect they were made in the US as well.

The Brit blacksmiths love fly presses and Blacker hammers, both of
which are like hen's teeth in Leftpondia. Another use was
architectural ceramics: clay, damp but not wet, was put into a
mould/form and rammed with a flypress, then fired. Apparently a way
to force the items to retain dimension, not so easy with wet clay.

AFAIK, some flypresses have a simple screw but the one I had a close
look at Britain had a two-pitch screw, ingenious and very effective.

Details, photo and diagram he

http://home.tallships.ca/mspencer/nut.html

Retired but I'd still love to have one to mess about with.

Some other smithing oddments if yer interested:

http://home.tallships.ca/mspencer/tools.html


My Sweeney & Blocksidge has a 2 pitch screw but that is quite normal for
many makes. The coarse thread is what applies the force and the fine
thread is at the upper end of the screw and is what the stop collar fits
to to allow fine adjustment of the ram travel.

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Old February 2nd 19, 09:08 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default what type of press is this?

On 02/02/2019 00:26, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 2 Feb 2019 00:19:54 +0000, David Billington
wrote:

On 01/02/2019 06:11, Cydrome Leader wrote:
It's some sort of press with a heavy wheel that spins back and forth and
presses on the work using a heavy screw.

No audio needed, just watch about 10 seconds

https://youtu.be/CLcAms8GgeM?t=427

What's the history of these, any is it something uncommon in the US?

I've not seen a powered one like that but it's basically a fly press as
others have mentioned. For manual operation they're quite nice as you
get a feel for the energy input required to do the job so you adjust
accordingly. I have one and they're quite common in the UK. The pic
posted of a bunch of them in Texas looks a lot like Norton or Sweeney &
Blocksidge but I expect they were made in the US as well.

What do the heavy balls do for getting a feel for the work?


The balls just store the energy you apply to the handle when swinging it
around and that energy is released when the tooling strikes the work.
It's normal to keep a hold of the handle so you feel the interaction
between the tool and work, not always required but it's nice for some
things. The balls and fly presses come in different sizes depending on
the job requirement. The ram runs in precision guides so location is
consistent which is useful for thing such as punches and dies which I
have a decent selection of, once the bolster has been located to hold
the die the punches and dies can be swapped quickly and easily which is
really useful for the likes of punching holes in sheet metal.

They still make the things new in the UK
https://www.jameswshenton.co.uk/norton-presses-ccm5 .



__

"Poor widdle Wudy...mentally ill, lies constantly, doesnt know who he is, or even what gender "he" is.

No more pathetic creature has ever walked the earth. But...he is locked into a mental hospital for the safety of the public.

Which is a very good thing."

Asun rauhassa, valmistaudun sotaan.


---
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https://www.avast.com/antivirus


  #14   Report Post  
Old February 2nd 19, 11:23 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 10,270
Default what type of press is this?

On Sat, 2 Feb 2019 20:08:20 +0000, David Billington
wrote:

On 02/02/2019 00:26, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 2 Feb 2019 00:19:54 +0000, David Billington
wrote:

On 01/02/2019 06:11, Cydrome Leader wrote:
It's some sort of press with a heavy wheel that spins back and forth and
presses on the work using a heavy screw.

No audio needed, just watch about 10 seconds

https://youtu.be/CLcAms8GgeM?t=427

What's the history of these, any is it something uncommon in the US?

I've not seen a powered one like that but it's basically a fly press as
others have mentioned. For manual operation they're quite nice as you
get a feel for the energy input required to do the job so you adjust
accordingly. I have one and they're quite common in the UK. The pic
posted of a bunch of them in Texas looks a lot like Norton or Sweeney &
Blocksidge but I expect they were made in the US as well.

What do the heavy balls do for getting a feel for the work?


The balls just store the energy you apply to the handle when swinging it
around and that energy is released when the tooling strikes the work.
It's normal to keep a hold of the handle so you feel the interaction
between the tool and work, not always required but it's nice for some
things. The balls and fly presses come in different sizes depending on
the job requirement. The ram runs in precision guides so location is
consistent which is useful for thing such as punches and dies which I
have a decent selection of, once the bolster has been located to hold
the die the punches and dies can be swapped quickly and easily which is
really useful for the likes of punching holes in sheet metal.

They still make the things new in the UK
https://www.jameswshenton.co.uk/norton-presses-ccm5 .

After putting my pea sized brain to it..I can see some processes where
they would be handy indeed.

I have a Dumont 5 ton broaching arbor press and a 60 ton hydraulic
press...plus a handful of small arbor presses....and of course a
couple sets of Greenlee hydraulic hole punch dies and hand pumped
power sources. Is there any reason for me to find one of those
presses as you discussed? If so..I will most certainly start hunting
for one;

Thanks!!




__

"Poor widdle Wudy...mentally ill, lies constantly, doesnt know who he is, or even what gender "he" is.

No more pathetic creature has ever walked the earth. But...he is locked into a mental hospital for the safety of the public.

Which is a very good thing."

Asun rauhassa, valmistaudun sotaan.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

__

"Poor widdle Wudy...mentally ill, lies constantly, doesnt know who he is, or even what gender "he" is.

No more pathetic creature has ever walked the earth. But...he is locked into a mental hospital for the safety of the public.

Which is a very good thing."

Asun rauhassa, valmistaudun sotaan.

  #15   Report Post  
Old February 3rd 19, 02:06 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Jun 2011
Posts: 5,314
Default what type of press is this?

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 2 Feb 2019 20:08:20 +0000, David Billington

wrote:

On 02/02/2019 00:26, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 2 Feb 2019 00:19:54 +0000, David Billington

wrote:

On 01/02/2019 06:11, Cydrome Leader wrote:
It's some sort of press with a heavy wheel that spins back and
forth and
presses on the work using a heavy screw.

No audio needed, just watch about 10 seconds

https://youtu.be/CLcAms8GgeM?t=427

What's the history of these, any is it something uncommon in the
US?

I've not seen a powered one like that but it's basically a fly
press as
others have mentioned. For manual operation they're quite nice as
you
get a feel for the energy input required to do the job so you
adjust
accordingly. I have one and they're quite common in the UK. The
pic
posted of a bunch of them in Texas looks a lot like Norton or
Sweeney &
Blocksidge but I expect they were made in the US as well.
What do the heavy balls do for getting a feel for the work?


The balls just store the energy you apply to the handle when
swinging it
around and that energy is released when the tooling strikes the
work.
It's normal to keep a hold of the handle so you feel the interaction
between the tool and work, not always required but it's nice for
some
things. The balls and fly presses come in different sizes depending
on
the job requirement. The ram runs in precision guides so location is
consistent which is useful for thing such as punches and dies which
I
have a decent selection of, once the bolster has been located to
hold
the die the punches and dies can be swapped quickly and easily which
is
really useful for the likes of punching holes in sheet metal.

They still make the things new in the UK
https://www.jameswshenton.co.uk/norton-presses-ccm5 .

After putting my pea sized brain to it..I can see some processes
where
they would be handy indeed.

I have a Dumont 5 ton broaching arbor press and a 60 ton hydraulic
press...plus a handful of small arbor presses....and of course a
couple sets of Greenlee hydraulic hole punch dies and hand pumped
power sources. Is there any reason for me to find one of those
presses as you discussed? If so..I will most certainly start hunting
for one;

Thanks!!


I'd rather dedicate the shop space to one of these:
https://www.roperwhitney.com/our-pro...h-deep-throat/





  #16   Report Post  
Old February 3rd 19, 03:37 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 3,046
Default what type of press is this?

Leon Fisk on Fri, 1 Feb 2019 15:40:31 -0400
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Fri, 01 Feb 2019 10:13:12 -0500
Clare Snyder wrote:

On Fri, 1 Feb 2019 06:11:16 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

It's some sort of press with a heavy wheel that spins back and forth and
presses on the work using a heavy screw.

No audio needed, just watch about 10 seconds

https://youtu.be/CLcAms8GgeM?t=427

What's the history of these, any is it something uncommon in the US?

I'd call it a "rotary inertia" or "worm gear inertia" press and it
is not common in North America from what I've seen.


That's because Andrew has been hoarding them all in Texas:

https://www.instagram.com/blacksmith...p/BYjxXCmjvtY/

Seriously though, he would be a good one to call if you want one. He
seems to come across them pretty often...


Looks like a stamping press. In this case, knocking out 'flatware.
Put the blank in it,down comes the die, up goes the die, out comes the
spoon / fork. FWIW, Krupp Steel started out supplying those dies.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."
  #17   Report Post  
Old February 3rd 19, 03:28 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Jun 2011
Posts: 5,314
Default what type of press is this?

"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
...
Leon Fisk on Fri, 1 Feb 2019 15:40:31 -0400
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Fri, 01 Feb 2019 10:13:12 -0500
Clare Snyder wrote:

On Fri, 1 Feb 2019 06:11:16 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

It's some sort of press with a heavy wheel that spins back and
forth and
presses on the work using a heavy screw.

No audio needed, just watch about 10 seconds

https://youtu.be/CLcAms8GgeM?t=427

What's the history of these, any is it something uncommon in the
US?
I'd call it a "rotary inertia" or "worm gear inertia" press and
it
is not common in North America from what I've seen.


That's because Andrew has been hoarding them all in Texas:

https://www.instagram.com/blacksmith...p/BYjxXCmjvtY/

Seriously though, he would be a good one to call if you want one. He
seems to come across them pretty often...


Looks like a stamping press. In this case, knocking out 'flatware.
Put the blank in it,down comes the die, up goes the die, out comes
the
spoon / fork. FWIW, Krupp Steel started out supplying those dies.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."


They were wise to be ready for either war or peace.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns_versus_butter_model



  #18   Report Post  
Old February 3rd 19, 04:17 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Sep 2014
Posts: 232
Default what type of press is this?

On 03/02/2019 01:06, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 2 Feb 2019 20:08:20 +0000, David Billington

wrote:

On 02/02/2019 00:26, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 2 Feb 2019 00:19:54 +0000, David Billington

wrote:

On 01/02/2019 06:11, Cydrome Leader wrote:
It's some sort of press with a heavy wheel that spins back and
forth and
presses on the work using a heavy screw.

No audio needed, just watch about 10 seconds

https://youtu.be/CLcAms8GgeM?t=427

What's the history of these, any is it something uncommon in the
US?

I've not seen a powered one like that but it's basically a fly
press as
others have mentioned. For manual operation they're quite nice as
you
get a feel for the energy input required to do the job so you
adjust
accordingly. I have one and they're quite common in the UK. The
pic
posted of a bunch of them in Texas looks a lot like Norton or
Sweeney &
Blocksidge but I expect they were made in the US as well.
What do the heavy balls do for getting a feel for the work?
The balls just store the energy you apply to the handle when
swinging it
around and that energy is released when the tooling strikes the
work.
It's normal to keep a hold of the handle so you feel the interaction
between the tool and work, not always required but it's nice for
some
things. The balls and fly presses come in different sizes depending
on
the job requirement. The ram runs in precision guides so location is
consistent which is useful for thing such as punches and dies which
I
have a decent selection of, once the bolster has been located to
hold
the die the punches and dies can be swapped quickly and easily which
is
really useful for the likes of punching holes in sheet metal.

They still make the things new in the UK
https://www.jameswshenton.co.uk/norton-presses-ccm5 .

After putting my pea sized brain to it..I can see some processes
where
they would be handy indeed.

I have a Dumont 5 ton broaching arbor press and a 60 ton hydraulic
press...plus a handful of small arbor presses....and of course a
couple sets of Greenlee hydraulic hole punch dies and hand pumped
power sources. Is there any reason for me to find one of those
presses as you discussed? If so..I will most certainly start hunting
for one;

Thanks!!

I'd rather dedicate the shop space to one of these:
https://www.roperwhitney.com/our-pro...h-deep-throat/



Nice but I think a fly press is far more versatile especially if you can
make you own tooling. I use mine for punching but also forming,
shrinking, bending, punching louvres.

  #19   Report Post  
Old February 3rd 19, 04:53 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Aug 2006
Posts: 3,046
Default what type of press is this?

"Jim Wilkins" on Sun, 3 Feb 2019 09:28:32 -0500
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
.. .
Leon Fisk on Fri, 1 Feb 2019 15:40:31 -0400
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Fri, 01 Feb 2019 10:13:12 -0500
Clare Snyder wrote:

On Fri, 1 Feb 2019 06:11:16 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

It's some sort of press with a heavy wheel that spins back and
forth and
presses on the work using a heavy screw.

No audio needed, just watch about 10 seconds

https://youtu.be/CLcAms8GgeM?t=427

What's the history of these, any is it something uncommon in the
US?
I'd call it a "rotary inertia" or "worm gear inertia" press and
it
is not common in North America from what I've seen.

That's because Andrew has been hoarding them all in Texas:

https://www.instagram.com/blacksmith...p/BYjxXCmjvtY/

Seriously though, he would be a good one to call if you want one. He
seems to come across them pretty often...


Looks like a stamping press. In this case, knocking out 'flatware.
Put the blank in it,down comes the die, up goes the die, out comes
the
spoon / fork. FWIW, Krupp Steel started out supplying those dies.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."


They were wise to be ready for either war or peace.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guns_versus_butter_model


But when he started, Herr Krupp wasn't the Industrial Powerhouse.
Rather a bit of the opposite. E.G., his first mill used water wheels
to power the drop hammer (SOP at the time). Which he put on a stream
which didn't have enough flow year round.

--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."
  #20   Report Post  
Old February 3rd 19, 07:01 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Jun 2011
Posts: 5,314
Default what type of press is this?

"David Billington" wrote in message
...
On 03/02/2019 01:06, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 2 Feb 2019 20:08:20 +0000, David Billington

wrote:

On 02/02/2019 00:26, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 2 Feb 2019 00:19:54 +0000, David Billington

wrote:

On 01/02/2019 06:11, Cydrome Leader wrote:
It's some sort of press with a heavy wheel that spins back and
forth and
presses on the work using a heavy screw.

No audio needed, just watch about 10 seconds

https://youtu.be/CLcAms8GgeM?t=427

What's the history of these, any is it something uncommon in
the
US?

I've not seen a powered one like that but it's basically a fly
press as
others have mentioned. For manual operation they're quite nice
as
you
get a feel for the energy input required to do the job so you
adjust
accordingly. I have one and they're quite common in the UK. The
pic
posted of a bunch of them in Texas looks a lot like Norton or
Sweeney &
Blocksidge but I expect they were made in the US as well.
What do the heavy balls do for getting a feel for the work?
The balls just store the energy you apply to the handle when
swinging it
around and that energy is released when the tooling strikes the
work.
It's normal to keep a hold of the handle so you feel the
interaction
between the tool and work, not always required but it's nice for
some
things. The balls and fly presses come in different sizes
depending
on
the job requirement. The ram runs in precision guides so location
is
consistent which is useful for thing such as punches and dies
which
I
have a decent selection of, once the bolster has been located to
hold
the die the punches and dies can be swapped quickly and easily
which
is
really useful for the likes of punching holes in sheet metal.

They still make the things new in the UK
https://www.jameswshenton.co.uk/norton-presses-ccm5 .

After putting my pea sized brain to it..I can see some processes
where
they would be handy indeed.

I have a Dumont 5 ton broaching arbor press and a 60 ton hydraulic
press...plus a handful of small arbor presses....and of course a
couple sets of Greenlee hydraulic hole punch dies and hand pumped
power sources. Is there any reason for me to find one of those
presses as you discussed? If so..I will most certainly start
hunting
for one;

Thanks!!

I'd rather dedicate the shop space to one of these:
https://www.roperwhitney.com/our-pro...h-deep-throat/



Nice but I think a fly press is far more versatile especially if you
can make you own tooling. I use mine for punching but also forming,
shrinking, bending, punching louvres.


I agree that the fly press is a fast and convenient way to do those
jobs if you have one, but it isn't the only way, and it consumes a lot
of space on a heavy duty bench. I've hammered louvers into a shop-made
stainless steel replacement catalytic converter heat shield using a
formed block between the vise jaws as the lower die and rounded bar
stock as the punch, after slitting the metal between punched end holes
with a cold chisel. The result fit together well, didn't rattle, and
was pretty enough for where it goes.

When I took the blacksmithing class I carefully considered what his
equipment and methods could do, versus what I need and already have in
my shop. I think my arbor and hydraulic presses are adequate if slower
substitutes for a fly press, since I don't do hot die forging and
could make a spring swage that fits the anvil's hardy hole if I ever
wanted to. The blacksmith had his largest fly press set up to finish
round tenons on the ends of railing sections, a job my lathe could
handle.
https://www.blacksmithsdepot.com/pro...ng-swages.html

This describes the work of each trade in a shipyard.
https://www.amazon.com/Yard-Building.../dp/0060929634
The only part that the blacksmith needs to forge hot is the end of
stair handrails, all other curved steel on the ship can be bent cold.

-jsw




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