Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Old December 11th 18, 05:32 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

Leon Fisk wrote:

I've got the same or very similar bathtub faucet. Mine wasn't mounted
so deep and you can fit a spanner wrench on the bonnets. Couldn't get
the seats out though. Didn't want to break something trying any harder
to turn them. Those two flats on the bonnet for a wrench are pretty
common or at least it used to be. For instance Streamway as shown he

https://www.danco.com/product/7j-2hc...amway-faucets/

is pretty close. You can download the whole Danco catalog here (huge!
180MB):

https://s16962.pcdn.co/wp-content/up...thAddendum.pdf

it has good pictures for a lot of old stems in it with manufacturer
names. Streamway has a few good examples on actual page 38 of pdf. I
couldn't find any special sockets to fit that shape though. Also a
nice schematic on page 5 detailing all the proper part names...

On my bathtub I just replaced the washer, packer, escutcheon nipple and
escutcheon. Used a 6-flute countersink to touch up the seats. Maybe a
conical grind stone too. Probably by hand or really slow in VSR drill.
Been over 10 years now, don't remember the details for sure...


Just sent an email to Danco with a link to the photos, maybe they'll reply.
In the meantime I'll download the manual to see what I can learn.

Thank you!

bob prohaska


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Old December 11th 18, 05:40 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

Bob Engelhardt wrote:

You might be able to fix the old valve, but you _know_ that it won't be
the end of it. Do it right, replace it, and be done with it.


I don't really disagree with you, but that's a can of worms I'd rather face
on my own terms. If it's possible to fix the valves without too much trouble
it seems foolish to do otherwise. If they can't be fixed, then the decision
making process gets complicated rather quickly.

I'll take a look at the cover plate idea as a stopgap, thanks for pointing
it out.

bob prohaska

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Old December 11th 18, 05:42 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

On 12/10/2018 12:40 PM, bob prohaska wrote:
I'd like to service a shower valve in a 1957 house with original plumbing.

The bonnet nut uses a round boss 7/8" in diameter with two flats milled
in it about 3/4" apart. It'd be a cinch if the valve stuck out of the wall,
any open-end would fit. Unfortunately it's recessed about an inch behind the
tile, so a socket is reuquired.

All the wrenches I can find fit hex nuts, does anybody know the correct name
for the required tool? From time to time "nuts" like this have crossed my
path, but I've never encountered one used in a position that requires a
socket to grab it.

At this point I don't even know what to look for. Correct terminology would
help a great deal.

Thanks for reading, and any guidance.

bob prohaska



How about long-nose vise grips, maybe with some grinding.
Good use for Harbor Freight tools. :-)

--
Gary A. Gorgen | "From ideas to PRODUCTS"
| Tunxis Design Inc.
| Cupertino, Ca. 95014
  #24   Report Post  
Old December 11th 18, 08:27 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

On 12/11/2018 12:40 PM, bob prohaska wrote:
Bob Engelhardt wrote:

You might be able to fix the old valve, but you _know_ that it won't be
the end of it. Do it right, replace it, and be done with it.


I don't really disagree with you, but that's a can of worms I'd rather face
on my own terms. If it's possible to fix the valves without too much trouble
it seems foolish to do otherwise. If they can't be fixed, then the decision
making process gets complicated rather quickly.

I'll take a look at the cover plate idea as a stopgap, thanks for pointing
it out.

bob prohaska



I used to have a 4-unit apartment building that was built around 1950.
It had the old style 3-valve shower controls and I fought the repair
battle for years before biting the bullet and replacing them. It was a
big job, but the repairs were an even bigger job, if you add them all up
over the years. Just sayin'.

I'm liking the make-the-nut-hexagonal idea more. It wouldn't really
take much brass removal. Here's a drawing:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1vF...uzvsDu5yGA7n8L
  #25   Report Post  
Old December 11th 18, 10:43 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

"Bob Engelhardt" wrote in message
news
On 12/11/2018 12:40 PM, bob prohaska wrote:
Bob Engelhardt wrote:

You might be able to fix the old valve, but you _know_ that it
won't be
the end of it. Do it right, replace it, and be done with it.


I don't really disagree with you, but that's a can of worms I'd
rather face
on my own terms. If it's possible to fix the valves without too
much trouble
it seems foolish to do otherwise. If they can't be fixed, then the
decision
making process gets complicated rather quickly.

I'll take a look at the cover plate idea as a stopgap, thanks for
pointing
it out.

bob prohaska


I used to have a 4-unit apartment building that was built around
1950. It had the old style 3-valve shower controls and I fought the
repair battle for years before biting the bullet and replacing them.
It was a big job, but the repairs were an even bigger job, if you
add them all up over the years. Just sayin'.

I'm liking the make-the-nut-hexagonal idea more. It wouldn't really
take much brass removal. Here's a drawing:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1vF...uzvsDu5yGA7n8L


A 1/2" hex nut bored out to fit over the pipe could be the scribing or
chiseling guide.




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Old December 12th 18, 01:07 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

Gary A. Gorgen wrote:

How about long-nose vise grips, maybe with some grinding.
Good use for Harbor Freight tools. :-)


I should probably at least think about the idea. It's a cringeworthy
practice, but if the bonnet is loose enough to remove that way it'd
be easy to file the rounded parts to fit a hex socket.

Up to now I've been thinking the bonnet is too tight tp remove with
something as flimsy as long-nose pliers, perhaps I should check first.
The grip will be very frail, but it'll only have to work once.

Thank you!

bob prohaska

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Old December 12th 18, 01:15 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

wrote:
On Mon, 10 Dec 2018 20:40:21 -0000 (UTC), bob prohaska
wrote:

I'd like to service a shower valve in a 1957 house with original plumbing.

The bonnet nut uses a round boss 7/8" in diameter with two flats milled
in it about 3/4" apart. It'd be a cinch if the valve stuck out of the wall,
any open-end would fit. Unfortunately it's recessed about an inch behind the
tile, so a socket is reuquired.

All the wrenches I can find fit hex nuts, does anybody know the correct name
for the required tool? From time to time "nuts" like this have crossed my
path, but I've never encountered one used in a position that requires a
socket to grab it.

At this point I don't even know what to look for. Correct terminology would
help a great deal.

Thanks for reading, and any guidance.

bob prohaska


I would tell you to call a plumbing shop but you probably already did.
There is a shop I go to rarely for old stuff and they would at least
know if the tool is available. There is another thing you should do
along with this repair and that is install valves (AKA stops) in the
plumbing before the shower and tub valves. This way you only need to
shut off water to those valves and not the whole house. If you take
that valve apart and everything goes to hell with the valve you will
be happy that you installed the extra stops. Of course this assumes
you can get access easily to the plumbing under the floor.


Access? yes. Easy? no.... Adding stops before the shower and tub could
be done, but I think it'll be a considerable project in its own right.
Still, it's something to think about. I should probably look at the tub
valves before going too much farther.

Thanks!

bob prohaska



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Old December 12th 18, 01:33 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

Jim Wilkins wrote:
I used to have a 4-unit apartment building that was built around
1950. It had the old style 3-valve shower controls and I fought the
repair battle for years before biting the bullet and replacing them.
It was a big job, but the repairs were an even bigger job, if you
add them all up over the years. Just sayin'.

Long term the bathroom should be completely re-done, certainly. It's
possible the clock has already run out, but I'm not willing to admit
it just yet 8-)

I'm liking the make-the-nut-hexagonal idea more. It wouldn't really
take much brass removal. Here's a drawing:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1vF...uzvsDu5yGA7n8L


A 1/2" hex nut bored out to fit over the pipe could be the scribing or
chiseling guide.


You're right, that's not much metal to remove. Alas, my freehand skills
with a die grinder aren't very good. If I could extract the bonnet once
I could certainly file the hex accurately enough. If I can replace the
seals and put it back once it'll outlive me...

bob prohaska





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Old December 13th 18, 10:08 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

If you have a socket with flat to flat distance suitable for the shower,
remove the unwanted flats with a bench grinder. Handy tools, those.

Hul

bob prohaska wrote:
Carl wrote:
"bob prohaska" wrote in message news

I'd like to service a shower valve in a 1957 house with original plumbing.

The bonnet nut uses a round boss 7/8" in diameter with two flats milled
in it about 3/4" apart. It'd be a cinch if the valve stuck out of the wall,
any open-end would fit. Unfortunately it's recessed about an inch behind
the
tile, so a socket is reuquired.

All the wrenches I can find fit hex nuts, does anybody know the correct
name
for the required tool? From time to time "nuts" like this have crossed my
path, but I've never encountered one used in a position that requires a
socket to grab it.

At this point I don't even know what to look for. Correct terminology would
help a great deal.

Thanks for reading, and any guidance.


Big question is how big is the hole in the tile? If it's big enough you
could get a crow's foot wrench in there, or a sink wrench (think right angle


Nowhere close to big enough for a crow's foot. I'll have a grind out some
of the tile and grout to get a relatively thin socket on the bonnet fitting.


If I just hammered a pair of flats on a 7/8" ID tube it _might_ work, but
any wrench I can make will be a worse fit and weaker than the worst wrench
I'm likely to buy. If I damage the valve it'll mean taking out tile,
that could easily turn into a bathroom remodel 8-|


There's nothing particularly special about the house or the way it's built,
I'm sure the valves were common before the advent of single-control valves.
If I knew what the needed wrench was called I'd have a chance of finding one.
Terms like "2 flat socket" and "2 point socket" find nothing. "Valve bonnet
wrench" finds many matches, but they're all hex.


A search through McMaster-Carr catalog 117 found nothing even close. That
could mean the valve is rare, but nore likely it just means the valve is a
purely residential product.


Thanks for writing,


bob prohaska




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Old December 14th 18, 05:18 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Socket for old shower valve bonnet needed

Hul Tytus wrote:
If you have a socket with flat to flat distance suitable for the shower,
remove the unwanted flats with a bench grinder. Handy tools, those.


Rather than butcher a good deep socket I decided to try making one out
of steel tubing. The valve bonnet needn't be extremely tight since it
seals with gaskets (though of course it could be siezed) and in any case
the valve is suspended on the piping, which won't take a whole lot of
torque no matter how strong the socket is.

It turned out to be surprisingly easy to craft a socket out of 3/4"
thinwall conduit, flaring the tube on the horn of an anvil and hammering
in the flats. If it proves weaker than the piping support making a
stronger socket out of better-quality tubing promises to be quite easy.

Perhaps this is why nobody bothers to sell sockets for this application;
they're easy enough to make. There are photos at
http://www.zefox.net/~bp/shower_valve/
in case anyone's curious.

To my relief (and some embarrassment) it was pointed out to me that the
tile on the back side of the shower wall stops below the shower valves.
If all else fails the valves can be replaced without disturbing the tile.

Thanks for reading, and everyone's counsel!

bob prohaska





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