Hello,

Q-1: We have a 1.5hp, 230v well pump at around 360ft. I was in the pump room today and the pressure switch kicked in. There was a slight humming and no pressure increase for about ten seconds. The humming suddenly got a little louder and the pressure started rising.

I have checked things as recommended on the Franklin control box sticker and all measure OK.

Anyone care to offer ideas on what might be going on? Should we be saving up for a $700 pump pull? Four well companies around here and they all seem think that's a fair price for two hours work. New pump about four years back for $1400!

Q-2: I am thinking of changing over to polypipe so we can lift and lower it ourselves. The pump has a stainless steel cable running down with the wires so I am thinking I may be able to use that with an electric winch then man-handle the polypipe into a large coil as it comes out.

I believe the polypipe can handle the depth/pressure but all the well people I talk to here want me to stay with the 21' or 25' lengths so they can rob us blind pulling it I suspect.

Anyone care to offer some ideas on that? preferably from personal experience.

Q-3: Kenmore softener is not softening so I checked the resin. The container is near full of a sand-resin mix. The resin looks in god shape and about 50-50 mix with the sand.

The bottom and top strainer baskets in the resin are not clogged as I can siphon water out and pour it back in quite fast. Previous owner must had run it without filters, bummer. I can post a pic of the mix, but the little gold balls look like they may still do some work. Or will they?

I have pulled it from the plumbing but the boss is not happy with the taste of real filtered water. LOL

Anyone care to leap in here?

Thank you all.

Walt

On Tue, 29 May 2018 16:40:32 -0700 (PDT), Woodworking Smarter wrote:

Q-2: I am thinking of changing over to polypipe so we can lift and lower it ourselves. The pump has a stainless steel cable running down with the wires so I am thinking I may be able to use that with an electric winch then man-handle the polypipe into a large coil as it comes out.

I believe the polypipe can handle the depth/pressure but all the well people I talk to here want me to stay with the 21' or 25' lengths so they can rob us blind pulling it I suspect.

Anyone care to offer some ideas on that? preferably from personal experience

About 19 years ago, we pulled (by hand) my pump from ~212ft (The well
driller supervised everything we did).

There was 4-5 of us guys. The hardest part was supporting the flexible
pipe so we wouldn't crimp/fold the pipe as it was withdrawn/reinserted
into the well casing.

We had to maintain a pretty large radius as the pipe was transitioned
from vertical coming out of the casing to horizontal, and take care not
to let the loop flop/fall over sideways. The pipe is flexible, but
once its folded/crimped, it breaks/develops holes easily - or so we were
told.
Bill
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In article ,
Woodworking Smarter wrote:

Hello,

Q-1: We have a 1.5hp, 230v well pump at around 360ft. I was in the pump room
today and the pressure switch kicked in. There was a slight humming and no
pressure increase for about ten seconds. The humming suddenly got a little
louder and the pressure started rising.

I have checked things as recommended on the Franklin control box sticker and
all measure OK.

Anyone care to offer ideas on what might be going on? Should we be saving up
for a $700 pump pull? Four well companies around here and they all seem think
that's a fair price for two hours work. New pump about four years back for
$1400!

Q-2: I am thinking of changing over to polypipe so we can lift and lower it
ourselves. The pump has a stainless steel cable running down with the wires
so I am thinking I may be able to use that with an electric winch then
man-handle the polypipe into a large coil as it comes out.

I believe the polypipe can handle the depth/pressure but all the well people
I talk to here want me to stay with the 21' or 25' lengths so they can rob us
blind pulling it I suspect.

Anyone care to offer some ideas on that? preferably from personal experience.

Q-3: Kenmore softener is not softening so I checked the resin. The container
is near full of a sand-resin mix. The resin looks in god shape and about
50-50 mix with the sand.

The bottom and top strainer baskets in the resin are not clogged as I can
siphon water out and pour it back in quite fast. Previous owner must had run
it without filters, bummer. I can post a pic of the mix, but the little gold
balls look like they may still do some work. Or will they?

I have pulled it from the plumbing but the boss is not happy with the taste
of real filtered water. LOL

Anyone care to leap in here?

Thank you all.

Walt

Mine is at 300 feet and on 200 PSI Polyethylene. I put it in my darn
self - pulling it would be a bit more work, but for $1400 I might just
do it, or invest in some tooling (primarily "top of well pipe clamp") to
make it easier and then do it. Don't think "coil up the pipe" think "run
the pipe out in a loop about 175 feet", there will be less agony.
Biggest issue is not tearing up the pipe and wires on the edge of the
well casing. At $1400 you could afford to only be careful inserting the
new pump with new pipe and new wires and _still_ be money ahead, but I
prefer to not ding up the old if it's still serviceable.

IMPE, careful shopping of internet water system suppliers saved me a
bundle over the local folks - I hired them for the hole, and between
being backwards and too costly, they did not get my business for the
rest of the job.

21/25 foot threaded pipe is so old school it's backwards, particularly
if it's galvanized iron. If it's schedule 80 PVC it's workable with a
top of well clamp, just haul up that much, clamp securely, unscrew and
repeat. Iron is heavy as heck and prone to be rusted solid when you need
to remove it, so you end up decoupling it with a sawzall, and you'll
need a good hoist to haul it up. The major issue with either is always
making sure that the clamps are good EVERY tiem, so you don't drop the
string and get to pay the well drillers even more. With poly, you just
make sure you buy a single roll long enough for the whole depth without
joints.

If you have a three wire pump (seems likely if you have a "box to check
in your well room") I highly recommend getting out of the old-school on
that front as well and putting in a two-wire pump. The logic on 3 wire
(without 3-phase to the house) ran out 30 years ago, but well folks live
in a miasma of mythical reasoning AFAICT which perpetuates the use of
the things.

If you have sand coming out into your softener, a "spin-down filter" is
wonderful at getting the big crap out. Mine is the second thing after
the overpressure valve when the pipe comes into the house. Collects in
the clear bottom, flip a valve to dump it and backflush the screen
(since the pressure tank is upstream.)

My personal experience with keeping old softeners alive is that buying a
new softener is less hassle, works reliably, and has a warranty for a
while, unlike fussing with the old one. The parts that are reusable from
an old one are the parts that cost the least, so you can spend as much
(or more) refurbishing an old one and it takes more time. Up to you.

--
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Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile and ignore them so they will go away.

On Tuesday, May 29, 2018 at 5:42:00 PM UTC-7, Bill wrote:
We had to maintain a pretty large radius as the pipe was transitioned
from vertical coming out of the casing to horizontal, and take care not
to let the loop flop/fall over sideways. The pipe is flexible, but
once its folded/crimped, it breaks/develops holes easily - or so we were
told.

Thank you Bill. Had not thought that big radius/loop thing through, a 180-ft loop of tubing going roughly straight out sounds like a struggle.

Might have to stay with fixed-length pipe.

On Wednesday, May 30, 2018 at 8:31:26 AM UTC-7, Ecnerwal wrote:
My personal experience with keeping old softeners alive is that buying a
new softener is less hassle, works reliably, and has a warranty for a
while, unlike fussing with the old one. The parts that are reusable from
an old one are the parts that cost the least, so you can spend as much
(or more) refurbishing an old one and it takes more time. Up to you.

Thank you for all that detail. As I mentioned in my reply to Bill, 180-ft loop might be a struggle to manage given the surroundings of the well-head.

I take your point on the softener v replacement, but cash is in short supply so refurbish makes sense for us. Although, we will run without it in the plumbing for a while and see how life is without it. If it messes with the clothes washing then I am guessing I will be given no option by the boss, to make it work.

When I pulled it apart the float for the change over valve had a salt-crystal growth on top of it of about 1/4-lb so it was clearly staying at the bottom. The saline tank must have been totally saturated all the time.

There are two 10" x 2.5" filters installed and I have always changed them each month, so the sand ingress was not on my watch. I guess my question on that was more of, will it still soften, even some, with the 50% sand content?

I pulled my much shallower well pump using a scissor lift a few years
ago. The total job took me a lot longer than 2 hours. If I had done it
with a chain lever setup (which I have used on other wells in the past)
it would have taken me all day. $700 for a pump and $700 for everything
else seems pretty reasonable to me. Actually maybe a little cheap. I
did it myself because I was a little cash short at the time. With a
wife and kids in the house, not having water was not acceptable. LOL.
If I count the time chasing parts and setting up to do the job it took
me all day anyway. It was hot too. Thankfully my son was available to
help.

Kenmore water softener. Call Sears customer service, pay for the
service call, and grill the guy who comes out to decide whether or not
it will be worth your while to service it yourself in the future.

On 5/29/2018 7:40 PM, Woodworking Smarter wrote:
Hello,

Q-1: We have a 1.5hp, 230v well pump at around 360ft. I was in the pump room today and the pressure switch kicked in. There was a slight humming and no pressure increase for about ten seconds. The humming suddenly got a little louder and the pressure started rising.

I have checked things as recommended on the Franklin control box sticker and all measure OK.

Anyone care to offer ideas on what might be going on? Should we be saving up for a $700 pump pull? Four well companies around here and they all seem think that's a fair price for two hours work. New pump about four years back for $1400!

Q-2: I am thinking of changing over to polypipe so we can lift and lower it ourselves. The pump has a stainless steel cable running down with the wires so I am thinking I may be able to use that with an electric winch then man-handle the polypipe into a large coil as it comes out.

I believe the polypipe can handle the depth/pressure but all the well people I talk to here want me to stay with the 21' or 25' lengths so they can rob us blind pulling it I suspect.

Anyone care to offer some ideas on that? preferably from personal experience.

Q-3: Kenmore softener is not softening so I checked the resin. The container is near full of a sand-resin mix. The resin looks in god shape and about 50-50 mix with the sand.

The bottom and top strainer baskets in the resin are not clogged as I can siphon water out and pour it back in quite fast. Previous owner must had run it without filters, bummer. I can post a pic of the mix, but the little gold balls look like they may still do some work. Or will they?

I have pulled it from the plumbing but the boss is not happy with the taste of real filtered water. LOL

Anyone care to leap in here?

Thank you all.

Walt


Hi Walt,

I could type a lot of my own experiences with well pump personal
experiences over the past 38 years or so, but, to save time typing
I will just give you a pointer on maybe why you noticed the delay
in pressure rise once the contact engaged.

The check valve at the pump is most likely leaking. Meaning
that from that depth and no water or pressure in the pipe it
takes 10 seconds or so to get the water up.

When I was replacing my pump a number of years ago I was at
the local hardware store. The owner was Harry and Harry was
a retired plumber. And he said "Take it form a old plumber,
the pump has an internal check valve. I ALWAYS installed a
second and sometimes a third directly above the pump. That
way if one should ever fail, you will still have a check
valve that will work."

Today there are TWO(2) check valves above my pump and it has
been down at least 28 years or so. So I am at least good
until I send this posting...........................

Hope that helps.

BTW Harry has since passed, I miss that old plumber.

Les

On Wed, 30 May 2018 09:44:41 -0700 (PDT), Woodworking Smarter
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 29, 2018 at 5:42:00 PM UTC-7, Bill wrote:
We had to maintain a pretty large radius as the pipe was transitioned
from vertical coming out of the casing to horizontal, and take care not
to let the loop flop/fall over sideways. The pipe is flexible, but
once its folded/crimped, it breaks/develops holes easily - or so we were
told.

Thank you Bill. Had not thought that big radius/loop thing through, a 180-ft loop of tubing going roughly straight out sounds like a struggle.

Might have to stay with fixed-length pipe.

Around here...many people will take a LARGE cable spool and remove
the two side pieces..the big side pieces. Then they will put a 4x4
between them all the way around. Makes it hex shaped (more is
better)...or use a piece of 2 1/2" PVC heated up and then using all
thread..bolted between the two big pieces of wood. This makes a
decent enough pulley that will handle the tubing as it comes out of
the well and then out to the yard. Legs and an axle of course are
necessary but can be easily made from 4x4s and a chunk of pipe.


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On Wed, 30 May 2018 11:01:45 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 30 May 2018 09:44:41 -0700 (PDT), Woodworking Smarter
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 29, 2018 at 5:42:00 PM UTC-7, Bill wrote:
We had to maintain a pretty large radius as the pipe was transitioned
from vertical coming out of the casing to horizontal, and take care not
to let the loop flop/fall over sideways. The pipe is flexible, but
once its folded/crimped, it breaks/develops holes easily - or so we were
told.

Thank you Bill. Had not thought that big radius/loop thing through, a 180-ft loop of tubing going roughly straight out sounds like a struggle.

Might have to stay with fixed-length pipe.

Around here...many people will take a LARGE cable spool and remove
the two side pieces..the big side pieces. Then they will put a 4x4
between them all the way around. Makes it hex shaped (more is
better)...or use a piece of 2 1/2" PVC heated up and then using all
thread..bolted between the two big pieces of wood. This makes a
decent enough pulley that will handle the tubing as it comes out of
the well and then out to the yard. Legs and an axle of course are
necessary but can be easily made from 4x4s and a chunk of pipe.

And when I say large...4' minimum..minimum diameter...6'-8' are far
far better.


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In article ,
Woodworking Smarter wrote:

On Wednesday, May 30, 2018 at 8:31:26 AM UTC-7, Ecnerwal wrote:
My personal experience with keeping old softeners alive is that buying a
new softener is less hassle, works reliably, and has a warranty for a
while, unlike fussing with the old one. The parts that are reusable from
an old one are the parts that cost the least, so you can spend as much
(or more) refurbishing an old one and it takes more time. Up to you.

Thank you for all that detail. As I mentioned in my reply to Bill, 180-ft
loop might be a struggle to manage given the surroundings of the well-head.

I take your point on the softener v replacement, but cash is in short supply
so refurbish makes sense for us. Although, we will run without it in the
plumbing for a while and see how life is without it. If it messes with the
clothes washing then I am guessing I will be given no option by the boss, to
make it work.

When I pulled it apart the float for the change over valve had a salt-crystal
growth on top of it of about 1/4-lb so it was clearly staying at the bottom.
The saline tank must have been totally saturated all the time.

There are two 10" x 2.5" filters installed and I have always changed them
each month, so the sand ingress was not on my watch. I guess my question on
that was more of, will it still soften, even some, with the 50% sand content?

If properly regenerated, yes, sure. Some (deliberately installed) sand
and/or gravel is not uncommon simply as a filter bed at the bottom of
the column (look for pretty pictures on softener websites - perhaps even
animated ones) which gets stirred up in backwashing and settles itself
under the resin when normal flow is restored. There would be screens to
keep it in place, if so. Sounds like yours is not regenerating
correctly.

I fiddled with the old one for years before replacing it, and in
hindsight I should have replaced it at the start, but follow your own
path there.

--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile and ignore them so they will go away.