Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Default Pin Punches - Good Steel for Them

Most of the time pin punches do their job and pins push or are drive out
with modest effort. Once in a while you really have to wail on them to
get them started moving. When that happens the average pin punch just
folds like a cheap suit.

With this in mind I've been thinking about making some for special
applications. Use my regular el-cheapos formost normal applications,
but break out my "special ones" when the pin needs a little more push.

So, what would be a good choice for the application? W1 drill rod?
4140? I have those on hand, although either would require heat
treating, and the drill rod would probably require heat treat and
tempering. Is something else better?
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Default Pin Punches - Good Steel for Them

On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 16:51:46 -0700, Bob La Londe
wrote:

Most of the time pin punches do their job and pins push or are drive out
with modest effort. Once in a while you really have to wail on them to
get them started moving. When that happens the average pin punch just
folds like a cheap suit.

With this in mind I've been thinking about making some for special
applications. Use my regular el-cheapos formost normal applications,
but break out my "special ones" when the pin needs a little more push.

So, what would be a good choice for the application? W1 drill rod?
4140? I have those on hand, although either would require heat
treating, and the drill rod would probably require heat treat and
tempering. Is something else better?


What do you mean they "fold"? Do you mean they bend?

Good ones are made of good tool steel. I never had one "fold." Do you
know what brand they are?

The traditional tool steel for "pounding" is S6. It's moderately
strong and bend-resistant. It's big thing is that it's
shock-resistant.

The best combinations of strength and shock resistance are proprietary
grades of vanadium tool steel. But it's unlikely they'll be much more
resistant to bending than any good-quality pin punch.

The properties of W1 depend on how you heat-treat it. It is NOT an
alloy steel. Basically, it's a good grade of plain high-carbon steel.

4140 is similar to S6, except that is has a little bit lower alloy
components and no vanadium. S6 contains 0.2 - 0.4% vanadium.

--
Ed Huntress
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Default Pin Punches - Good Steel for Them

On 3/22/2018 5:06 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 16:51:46 -0700, Bob La Londe
wrote:

Most of the time pin punches do their job and pins push or are drive out
with modest effort. Once in a while you really have to wail on them to
get them started moving. When that happens the average pin punch just
folds like a cheap suit.

With this in mind I've been thinking about making some for special
applications. Use my regular el-cheapos formost normal applications,
but break out my "special ones" when the pin needs a little more push.

So, what would be a good choice for the application? W1 drill rod?
4140? I have those on hand, although either would require heat
treating, and the drill rod would probably require heat treat and
tempering. Is something else better?


What do you mean they "fold"? Do you mean they bend?

Good ones are made of good tool steel. I never had one "fold." Do you
know what brand they are?

The traditional tool steel for "pounding" is S6. It's moderately
strong and bend-resistant. It's big thing is that it's
shock-resistant.

The best combinations of strength and shock resistance are proprietary
grades of vanadium tool steel. But it's unlikely they'll be much more
resistant to bending than any good-quality pin punch.

The properties of W1 depend on how you heat-treat it. It is NOT an
alloy steel. Basically, it's a good grade of plain high-carbon steel.

4140 is similar to S6, except that is has a little bit lower alloy
components and no vanadium. S6 contains 0.2 - 0.4% vanadium.



S6 sounded interesting. I tried to look it up at my usual sources, but
didn't find it. One source has S5 and S7 and another just has S7. S7
actually looks very promising, but of course I have no experience with it.
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Default Pin Punches - Good Steel for Them

On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 17:24:39 -0700, Bob La Londe
wrote:

On 3/22/2018 5:06 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 16:51:46 -0700, Bob La Londe
wrote:

Most of the time pin punches do their job and pins push or are drive out
with modest effort. Once in a while you really have to wail on them to
get them started moving. When that happens the average pin punch just
folds like a cheap suit.

With this in mind I've been thinking about making some for special
applications. Use my regular el-cheapos formost normal applications,
but break out my "special ones" when the pin needs a little more push.

So, what would be a good choice for the application? W1 drill rod?
4140? I have those on hand, although either would require heat
treating, and the drill rod would probably require heat treat and
tempering. Is something else better?


What do you mean they "fold"? Do you mean they bend?

Good ones are made of good tool steel. I never had one "fold." Do you
know what brand they are?

The traditional tool steel for "pounding" is S6. It's moderately
strong and bend-resistant. It's big thing is that it's
shock-resistant.

The best combinations of strength and shock resistance are proprietary
grades of vanadium tool steel. But it's unlikely they'll be much more
resistant to bending than any good-quality pin punch.

The properties of W1 depend on how you heat-treat it. It is NOT an
alloy steel. Basically, it's a good grade of plain high-carbon steel.

4140 is similar to S6, except that is has a little bit lower alloy
components and no vanadium. S6 contains 0.2 - 0.4% vanadium.



S6 sounded interesting. I tried to look it up at my usual sources, but
didn't find it. One source has S5 and S7 and another just has S7. S7
actually looks very promising, but of course I have no experience with it.


That whole S-series (for "shock") is a graduated series of alloys. S5
or S7 ought to be as good for pin punches. The fine discriminations
come into play in tools that do repeated pounding, generally under
power.

Here's a good rundown on S5:

https://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=6247

You can look them up on MatWeb to see the differences -- I think.

Good luck!

--
Ed Huntress
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Default Pin Punches - Good Steel for Them

On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 7:51:47 PM UTC-4, Bob La Londe wrote:


With this in mind I've been thinking about making some for special
applications. Use my regular el-cheapos formost normal applications,
but break out my "special ones" when the pin needs a little more push.

So, what would be a good choice for the application? W1 drill rod?
4140? I have those on hand, although either would require heat
treating, and the drill rod would probably require heat treat and
tempering. Is something else better?


Do not know about better, but I make pin punches out of exhaust valves. And just turn them using carbide inserts. So no heat treating required. Having the pin part as big in diameter as possible helps as does having the pin part as short as possible. I get exhaust valves from places that do automotive machining.

Dan


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Default Pin Punches - Good Steel for Them


"Bob La Londe" wrote in message
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Most of the time pin punches do their job and pins push or are drive out
with modest effort. Once in a while you really have to wail on them to
get them started moving. When that happens the average pin punch just
folds like a cheap suit.

With this in mind I've been thinking about making some for special
applications. Use my regular el-cheapos formost normal applications, but
break out my "special ones" when the pin needs a little more push.

So, what would be a good choice for the application? W1 drill rod? 4140?
I have those on hand, although either would require heat treating, and the
drill rod would probably require heat treat and tempering. Is something
else better?


The long parallel drive punches will never hold up to heavy hammering. They
are not really designed to, they are designed to push the pin the rest of
the way through the hole.
To start one, you should use a tapered punch with a tip small enough to push
the pin just past the surface. Once the pin's grip has been broken, then you
use the drive punch.

I use nail sets, 'cause they're cheap and readily available.

Paul K. Dickman


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Default Pin Punches - Good Steel for Them

On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 18:51:44 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 7:51:47 PM UTC-4, Bob La Londe wrote:


With this in mind I've been thinking about making some for special
applications. Use my regular el-cheapos formost normal applications,
but break out my "special ones" when the pin needs a little more push.

So, what would be a good choice for the application? W1 drill rod?
4140? I have those on hand, although either would require heat
treating, and the drill rod would probably require heat treat and
tempering. Is something else better?


Do not know about better, but I make pin punches out of exhaust valves. And just turn them using carbide inserts. So no heat treating required. Having the pin part as big in diameter as possible helps as does having the pin part as short as possible. I get exhaust valves from places that do automotive machining.

Dan


Just make sure you don't try this with a sodium filled valve.
-Gene


Twenty years from now you will be more disppointed
by the things that you didn't do than by the ones
you did do.

So, throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor.
Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover.
- Mark Twain


1987 23' Grady-White Gulfstream
2004 17' G3 CC 1756

Out of Shallotte, NC
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Default Pin Punches - Good Steel for Them


On Thursday, March 22, 2018 at 7:51:47 PM UTC-4, Bob La Londe wrote:


With this in mind I've been thinking about making some for special
applications. Use my regular el-cheapos formost normal applications,
but break out my "special ones" when the pin needs a little more push.

So, what would be a good choice for the application? W1 drill rod?
4140? I have those on hand, although either would require heat
treating, and the drill rod would probably require heat treat and
tempering. Is something else better?


For my last intractable in problem -- wheel on a TroyBilt tiller -- I
cut the shank off an unrecoverable SnapOn phillips screw driver,
drilled a matching hole in the end of a 3/4" sq m/s rod, wedged the
screw driver shank into the hole. Application of a 5# hammer removed
the frozen-in pin. And the punch remains in good shape, too.

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada
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Default Pin Punches - Good Steel for Them

On Thu, 22 Mar 2018 16:51:46 -0700, Bob La Londe
wrote:

Most of the time pin punches do their job and pins push or are drive out
with modest effort. Once in a while you really have to wail on them to
get them started moving. When that happens the average pin punch just
folds like a cheap suit.

With this in mind I've been thinking about making some for special
applications. Use my regular el-cheapos formost normal applications,
but break out my "special ones" when the pin needs a little more push.

So, what would be a good choice for the application? W1 drill rod?
4140? I have those on hand, although either would require heat
treating, and the drill rod would probably require heat treat and
tempering. Is something else better?


4340 heat treated.

Though the ones i normally use are O1


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