If you know what this book is, you may know that it sells for $200 on
Amazon ($150 from Moore Tool Co.). But the Internet Archive makes it
available online for free.

If you *don't* know what this book is, and you do any accurate
machining, this is the story that defined accuracy throughout the
world for around 50 years. It's probably the most acclaimed book in
the metalworking industry. It was written by Wayne Moore, son of Dick
Moore, who invented the jig borer, the jig grinder, and many other
extreme-accuracy machines. A light-emission device made by Dick was
used by the National Bureau of Standards as the US standard for the
meter for years, before lasers.

This book explains how Moore Special Tool (now Moore Tool Co.) built
machines that positioned to millionths of an inch, before today's
electronics and lasers. It describes self-checking gages (spelling
intentional) that deliver millionths of an inch just by checking the
gage against itself, or against a duplicate. This, alone, makes it
worth reading the book.

I read it four or five times when I was at American Machinist. It gave
me a great start in understanding accuracy and accurate machines.

The only thing I see wrong with the online edition is that the
photography, which was the standard in the metalworking industry for
decades and was shot by a former LIFE magazine photographer, didn't
come through in the PDF edition. You can see what's going on, but the
original photography is spectacular.

The Internet Archive is a national treasure. You have to sign up and
log on, but it's free.

https://archive.org/

--
Ed Huntress

On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 02:54:59 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

snip
The only thing I see wrong with the online edition is that the
photography, which was the standard in the metalworking industry for
decades and was shot by a former LIFE magazine photographer, didn't
come through in the PDF edition. You can see what's going on, but the
original photography is spectacular.

The Internet Archive is a national treasure. You have to sign up and
log on, but it's free.

https://archive.org/

I've never had to sign up or sign in. Just checked and I still don't. I
think you need to if you want to upload content. The book mentioned can
be found he

https://archive.org/details/Foundati...anicalAccuracy

If you really want to see the best copy you can always look at the raw
scan data. Download the jp2 zip file. With that you could actually
build your own copy with pdf, djvu (much better format for books)...

Internet archive used to make djvu docs until about a year ago.
They were far superior to pdf. Don't know what happened other than I
found other people complaining about the loss too. Some docs come from
Googles scanning project and really suck. I always avoid those if at
all possible...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email
The only thing I see wrong with the online edition is that the
photography, which was the standard in the metalworking industry for
decades and was shot by a former LIFE magazine photographer, didn't
come through in the PDF edition. You can see what's going on, but the
original photography is spectacular.

The Internet Archive is a national treasure. You have to sign up and
log on, but it's free.

https://archive.org/

On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 08:49:43 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 02:54:59 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

snip
The only thing I see wrong with the online edition is that the
photography, which was the standard in the metalworking industry for
decades and was shot by a former LIFE magazine photographer, didn't
come through in the PDF edition. You can see what's going on, but the
original photography is spectacular.

The Internet Archive is a national treasure. You have to sign up and
log on, but it's free.

https://archive.org/

I've never had to sign up or sign in. Just checked and I still don't. I
think you need to if you want to upload content. The book mentioned can
be found he

https://archive.org/details/Foundati...anicalAccuracy

If you really want to see the best copy you can always look at the raw
scan data. Download the jp2 zip file. With that you could actually
build your own copy with pdf, djvu (much better format for books)...

Internet archive used to make djvu docs until about a year ago.
They were far superior to pdf. Don't know what happened other than I
found other people complaining about the loss too. Some docs come from
Googles scanning project and really suck. I always avoid those if at
all possible...

That's good to know. If you aren't signed in, are you able to see the
collections?

--
Ed Huntress

On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 08:25:42 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

snip
That's good to know. If you aren't signed in, are you able to see the
collections?

Not sure what you mean. I've never been stopped at any point other than
uploading stuff. I considered signing up to do that but decided against
it.

I also have java script, java and a lot of crap blocked as a general
rule...

Give me some links and I'll try to visit them

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 10:23:10 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 08:25:42 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

snip
That's good to know. If you aren't signed in, are you able to see the
collections?

Not sure what you mean. I've never been stopped at any point other than
uploading stuff. I considered signing up to do that but decided against
it.

I also have java script, java and a lot of crap blocked as a general
rule...

Give me some links and I'll try to visit them

When I log on to this:

https://archive.org/

....what I see is pages and pages of the "Top Collections of the
Archive." They're boxed icons, five across, that describe each of the
collections. There must be hundreds of the icons. Is that what you
see?

It also has a bunch of features for members, trivial things like
personal collections and web archives, etc.

--
Ed Huntress

On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 09:28:56 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

When I log on to this:

https://archive.org/

...what I see is pages and pages of the "Top Collections of the
Archive." They're boxed icons, five across, that describe each of the
collections. There must be hundreds of the icons. Is that what you
see?

It also has a bunch of features for members, trivial things like
personal collections and web archives, etc.

Slightly crunched screen shot with images blocked too:

http://www.iserv.net/~lfisk/archive-shot.jpg

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 09:28:56 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

It also has a bunch of features for members, trivial things like
personal collections and web archives, etc.

Here is a regular search I use to do every week or so:

http://archive.org/search.php?query=...rt=-publicdate

I gave up when they dropped the djvu document format. It would show me
all the recent old catalogs that had been uploaded. I've saved many of
them through the years. Here is a new one:

https://archive.org/details/ArrowTools1920Catalogue

The last few pages of items has old tool steel lathe cutters. I like to
see what shapes were used back in the day and that is a nice set with
descriptions

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 10:39:59 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 09:28:56 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

When I log on to this:

https://archive.org/

...what I see is pages and pages of the "Top Collections of the
Archive." They're boxed icons, five across, that describe each of the
collections. There must be hundreds of the icons. Is that what you
see?

It also has a bunch of features for members, trivial things like
personal collections and web archives, etc.

Slightly crunched screen shot with images blocked too:

http://www.iserv.net/~lfisk/archive-shot.jpg

Hmm. You have a text list of collections. Here's what I see. The first
page is the opening, and the second page is what you see when you
start scrolling down. There are pages after pages of these icons:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mz3s5qxrbc...e%201.png?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/eaitvl9ivv...e%202.png?dl=0

When you click on a collection icon, I get more pages of icons -- as
many icons as are in that top-level collection.

Are you able to scroll down through multiple pages of collections like
that?

--
Ed Huntress

On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 11:02:07 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 09:28:56 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

It also has a bunch of features for members, trivial things like
personal collections and web archives, etc.

Here is a regular search I use to do every week or so:

http://archive.org/search.php?query=...rt=-publicdate

I gave up when they dropped the djvu document format. It would show me
all the recent old catalogs that had been uploaded. I've saved many of
them through the years. Here is a new one:

https://archive.org/details/ArrowTools1920Catalogue

The last few pages of items has old tool steel lathe cutters. I like to
see what shapes were used back in the day and that is a nice set with
descriptions

Cool stuff. I'm going to have to learn how to use this thing. I only
came across it a few weeks ago, and have explored it a bit by way of
the collections.

Thanks for the tips.

--
Ed Huntress

On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 10:33:28 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

snip
Hmm. You have a text list of collections. Here's what I see. The first
page is the opening, and the second page is what you see when you
start scrolling down. There are pages after pages of these icons:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mz3s5qxrbc...e%201.png?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/eaitvl9ivv...e%202.png?dl=0

When you click on a collection icon, I get more pages of icons -- as
many icons as are in that top-level collection.

Are you able to scroll down through multiple pages of collections like
that?

If I enable Java script and images I get the same as your screen shot.
With JS off like my screen shot it's just laid out different. Read the
top two titles on my screen shot. Same as the icons on your first two
starting on the left.

Cool stuff. I'm going to have to learn how to use this thing. I only
came across it a few weeks ago, and have explored it a bit by way of
the collections.

I tried to turn people on to this here years ago, pointing out cool old
books that are still relevant. Nobody pays attention to old books...

This is the same site that has the old "Way back machine" too. It's the
search at the top of the page. You can find a lot of old defunct
websites archived there with a little bit of work and deduction.

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 13:21:10 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 10:33:28 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

snip
Hmm. You have a text list of collections. Here's what I see. The first
page is the opening, and the second page is what you see when you
start scrolling down. There are pages after pages of these icons:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mz3s5qxrbc...e%201.png?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/eaitvl9ivv...e%202.png?dl=0

When you click on a collection icon, I get more pages of icons -- as
many icons as are in that top-level collection.

Are you able to scroll down through multiple pages of collections like
that?

If I enable Java script and images I get the same as your screen shot.
With JS off like my screen shot it's just laid out different. Read the
top two titles on my screen shot. Same as the icons on your first two
starting on the left.

Cool stuff. I'm going to have to learn how to use this thing. I only
came across it a few weeks ago, and have explored it a bit by way of
the collections.

I tried to turn people on to this here years ago, pointing out cool old
books that are still relevant. Nobody pays attention to old books...

This is the same site that has the old "Way back machine" too. It's the
search at the top of the page. You can find a lot of old defunct
websites archived there with a little bit of work and deduction.

Thanks again, Leon. I love the old machining books. I used to have
access to the originals at the McGraw-Hill library -- American
Machinist had been collecting them since 1877 -- but I don't think
they even have them anymore, since they sold AM to Penton Publishing.
And there's no way I want to take a 40-minute train ride in to see
them, anyway.

So, now I have something for cold winter nights.

--
Ed Huntress

On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 12:29:08 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

snip
Thanks again, Leon. I love the old machining books. I used to have
access to the originals at the McGraw-Hill library -- American
Machinist had been collecting them since 1877 -- but I don't think
they even have them anymore, since they sold AM to Penton Publishing.
And there's no way I want to take a 40-minute train ride in to see
them, anyway.

So, now I have something for cold winter nights.

You're most welcome. You can study my search and build off it. Use the
"Advanced Search" page to learn/do more. I've got ~5gb stashed away
locally. Most of it came from there through the years via 56k modem.
Lathes, Machining, Engineering, Agriculture... lots of old
catalogues... Nowadays I have slow DSL so the local copies aren't nearly
as important. But stuff on the internet has a way of disappearing...

Here is another search you may like:

https://archive.org/search.php?query...anner%3Agoogle

A really good djvu viewer is:

https://windjview.sourceforge.io/

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 14:07:24 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 12:29:08 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

snip
Thanks again, Leon. I love the old machining books. I used to have
access to the originals at the McGraw-Hill library -- American
Machinist had been collecting them since 1877 -- but I don't think
they even have them anymore, since they sold AM to Penton Publishing.
And there's no way I want to take a 40-minute train ride in to see
them, anyway.

So, now I have something for cold winter nights.

You're most welcome. You can study my search and build off it. Use the
"Advanced Search" page to learn/do more. I've got ~5gb stashed away
locally. Most of it came from there through the years via 56k modem.
Lathes, Machining, Engineering, Agriculture... lots of old
catalogues... Nowadays I have slow DSL so the local copies aren't nearly
as important. But stuff on the internet has a way of disappearing...

Here is another search you may like:

https://archive.org/search.php?query...anner%3Agoogle

A really good djvu viewer is:

https://windjview.sourceforge.io/

OK, I have to look into the workings of the advanced searches. I see
that yours are very useful; I have some other subjects I want to
study, too.

The djvu viewer looks good. I'l download it tonight. Meantime, I'm
going to download that 331 MB version GAG! of "Foundations" and see
what the photos look like. I want to pass it on to the editor who
replaced me when I retired. I'm glad my ISP just upgraded my
connection to 100 Mbps.

This is great stuff, Leon. I appreciate your tips. BTW, did you ever
read "Foundations"? It's one of the very best metalworking books I've
read. Dick Moore's earlier books are great, too. I'll bet they're
availalble on the Internet Archive, eh?

--
Ed Huntress

On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 08:49:43 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 02:54:59 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

snip
The only thing I see wrong with the online edition is that the
photography, which was the standard in the metalworking industry for
decades and was shot by a former LIFE magazine photographer, didn't
come through in the PDF edition. You can see what's going on, but the
original photography is spectacular.

The Internet Archive is a national treasure. You have to sign up and
log on, but it's free.

https://archive.org/

I've never had to sign up or sign in. Just checked and I still don't. I
think you need to if you want to upload content. The book mentioned can
be found he

https://archive.org/details/Foundati...anicalAccuracy

Snagged. The TOC looks very interesting.


If you really want to see the best copy you can always look at the raw
scan data. Download the jp2 zip file. With that you could actually
build your own copy with pdf, djvu (much better format for books)...

Internet archive used to make djvu docs until about a year ago.
They were far superior to pdf. Don't know what happened other than I
found other people complaining about the loss too.

Hmm, I don't recall seeing the djvu format, or maybe just overlooked
them as not a format I recognized. What readers read them?

Speaking of which, I miss the hell out of DejaVu, the wonderful
pre-Google site.


Some docs come from
Googles scanning project and really suck. I always avoid those if at
all possible...

Yeah, I downloaded a book which was supposed to be over 60% pictures
the other day and found that it had NONE in it. Paragraph
descriptions of everything followed by no pics. It's criminal,
Google!

-


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet,
balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying,
take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations,
analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a
tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is
for insects.

-Robert A. Heinlein

On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 13:21:10 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 10:33:28 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

snip
Hmm. You have a text list of collections. Here's what I see. The first
page is the opening, and the second page is what you see when you
start scrolling down. There are pages after pages of these icons:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/mz3s5qxrbc...e%201.png?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/eaitvl9ivv...e%202.png?dl=0

When you click on a collection icon, I get more pages of icons -- as
many icons as are in that top-level collection.

Are you able to scroll down through multiple pages of collections like
that?

If I enable Java script and images I get the same as your screen shot.
With JS off like my screen shot it's just laid out different. Read the
top two titles on my screen shot. Same as the icons on your first two
starting on the left.

Cool stuff. I'm going to have to learn how to use this thing. I only
came across it a few weeks ago, and have explored it a bit by way of
the collections.

I tried to turn people on to this here years ago, pointing out cool old
books that are still relevant.

I've been a fan for awhile now, thanks to you.


Nobody pays attention to old books...

"Can I get it on my phone?" LOL


This is the same site that has the old "Way back machine" too. It's the
search at the top of the page. You can find a lot of old defunct
websites archived there with a little bit of work and deduction.

Yeah, that's fun.

-


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet,
balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying,
take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations,
analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a
tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is
for insects.

-Robert A. Heinlein

On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 17:28:54 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

snip
This is great stuff, Leon. I appreciate your tips. BTW, did you ever
read "Foundations"? It's one of the very best metalworking books I've
read. Dick Moore's earlier books are great, too. I'll bet they're
availalble on the Internet Archive, eh?

No I haven't. I use my stash like an encyclopedia or dictionary. Pickup
little snippets here and there as needed. You might recall I would come
up with answers for Rob's "What is it?" on occasion. The well
illustrated old books and catalogues were very useful to run down
hunches. When certain terms, methods over my head are discussed on the
group here I have good material to look it up.

If the books you're interested in are out of copyright and were held by
a large library they may be available. Search by title or a couple of
unique words from the title work well too. Some of my settings just
help reduce the chaff produced from a broader search.

The Archive has started using a more highly compressed pdf format
(pdf/A-2 and jp2 compression I think) much of the time that just brings
my computer to its knees. It takes several minutes to render a page,
which makes the docs pretty much useless for me. Oh well, I gleaned a
lot of cool stuff while they were still producing good djvu docs

The older djvu docs were quite nice. For instance "Cyclopedia of
engineering":

https://archive.org/download/cyclope...1ameriala.djvu

Which is only ~14mb as compared to the pdf version which is ~26mb

https://archive.org/download/cyclope...01ameriala.pdf

Pretty nice for a 438 page book with illustrations...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 22:29:38 -0800
Larry Jaques wrote:

snip
Hmm, I don't recall seeing the djvu format, or maybe just overlooked
them as not a format I recognized. What readers read them?

Windows:

https://windjview.sourceforge.io/

Linux, I usually just use Evince. DjView4 has more options and also has
a windows port as does Evince:

https://wiki.gnome.org/Apps/Evince

http://djvu.sourceforge.net/djview4.html

On Android I've been using Document Viewer, but mostly for pdf files. I
haven't tried reading any djvu content with it recently.

https://f-droid.org/packages/org.suf...secure.viewer/

Speaking of which, I miss the hell out of DejaVu, the wonderful
pre-Google site.

Yeah, I miss it too. It got the job done fast and simple. Using Google
Groups is like going for a run with cement block shoes...

Some docs come from
Googles scanning project and really suck. I always avoid those if at
all possible...

Yeah, I downloaded a book which was supposed to be over 60% pictures
the other day and found that it had NONE in it. Paragraph
descriptions of everything followed by no pics. It's criminal,
Google!

If that came from Archive try searching for another copy that wasn't
uploaded by Google. Some books have multiple copies uploaded from
different sources. If you look at the search strings I posted for Ed
you will see how to filter Google copies out. Interestingly Google
scanned/kept good content. They just uploaded crappy pdf copies to
Archive and the djvu copy was created from the crappy Google pdf so it
is even worse...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 2:55:12 AM UTC-5, Ed Huntress wrote:
If you know what this book is, you may know that it sells for $200 on
Amazon ($150 from Moore Tool Co.). But the Internet Archive makes it
available online for free.

If you *don't* know what this book is, and you do any accurate
machining, this is the story that defined accuracy throughout the
world for around 50 years. It's probably the most acclaimed book in
the metalworking industry. It was written by Wayne Moore, son of Dick
Moore, who invented the jig borer, the jig grinder, and many other
extreme-accuracy machines. A light-emission device made by Dick was
used by the National Bureau of Standards as the US standard for the
meter for years, before lasers.

This book explains how Moore Special Tool (now Moore Tool Co.) built
machines that positioned to millionths of an inch, before today's
electronics and lasers. It describes self-checking gages (spelling
intentional) that deliver millionths of an inch just by checking the
gage against itself, or against a duplicate. This, alone, makes it
worth reading the book.

I read it four or five times when I was at American Machinist. It gave
me a great start in understanding accuracy and accurate machines.

The only thing I see wrong with the online edition is that the
photography, which was the standard in the metalworking industry for
decades and was shot by a former LIFE magazine photographer, didn't
come through in the PDF edition. You can see what's going on, but the
original photography is spectacular.

The Internet Archive is a national treasure. You have to sign up and
log on, but it's free.

https://archive.org/

--
Ed Huntress

Awesome, never heard of it. Thanks.
I got a tablet for Xmas and am filling it with good books/ articles.

George H.

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 09:16:12 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jan 2018 17:28:54 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

snip
This is great stuff, Leon. I appreciate your tips. BTW, did you ever
read "Foundations"? It's one of the very best metalworking books I've
read. Dick Moore's earlier books are great, too. I'll bet they're
availalble on the Internet Archive, eh?

No I haven't. I use my stash like an encyclopedia or dictionary. Pickup
little snippets here and there as needed. You might recall I would come
up with answers for Rob's "What is it?" on occasion. The well
illustrated old books and catalogues were very useful to run down
hunches. When certain terms, methods over my head are discussed on the
group here I have good material to look it up.

If the books you're interested in are out of copyright and were held by
a large library they may be available. Search by title or a couple of
unique words from the title work well too. Some of my settings just
help reduce the chaff produced from a broader search.

The Archive has started using a more highly compressed pdf format
(pdf/A-2 and jp2 compression I think) much of the time that just brings
my computer to its knees. It takes several minutes to render a page,
which makes the docs pretty much useless for me. Oh well, I gleaned a
lot of cool stuff while they were still producing good djvu docs

The older djvu docs were quite nice. For instance "Cyclopedia of
engineering":

https://archive.org/download/cyclope...1ameriala.djvu

Which is only ~14mb as compared to the pdf version which is ~26mb

https://archive.org/download/cyclope...01ameriala.pdf

Pretty nice for a 438 page book with illustrations...

Yeah, it's very nice. I downoaded the reader and I'll look at some
more.

Of course, coming from the publishing business, I've been using
Acrobat from day one, for authoring and editing, and for print
production as well as for online readers. So I recognize what they
could be doing with Acrobat and my guess is that they just did a poor
job with the photos on that Acrobat copy of "Foundations."

Anyway, it's another useful tool, and thanks again for pointing it out
to me.

--
Ed Huntress

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 06:48:39 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 2:55:12 AM UTC-5, Ed Huntress wrote:
If you know what this book is, you may know that it sells for $200 on
Amazon ($150 from Moore Tool Co.). But the Internet Archive makes it
available online for free.

If you *don't* know what this book is, and you do any accurate
machining, this is the story that defined accuracy throughout the
world for around 50 years. It's probably the most acclaimed book in
the metalworking industry. It was written by Wayne Moore, son of Dick
Moore, who invented the jig borer, the jig grinder, and many other
extreme-accuracy machines. A light-emission device made by Dick was
used by the National Bureau of Standards as the US standard for the
meter for years, before lasers.

This book explains how Moore Special Tool (now Moore Tool Co.) built
machines that positioned to millionths of an inch, before today's
electronics and lasers. It describes self-checking gages (spelling
intentional) that deliver millionths of an inch just by checking the
gage against itself, or against a duplicate. This, alone, makes it
worth reading the book.

I read it four or five times when I was at American Machinist. It gave
me a great start in understanding accuracy and accurate machines.

The only thing I see wrong with the online edition is that the
photography, which was the standard in the metalworking industry for
decades and was shot by a former LIFE magazine photographer, didn't
come through in the PDF edition. You can see what's going on, but the
original photography is spectacular.

The Internet Archive is a national treasure. You have to sign up and
log on, but it's free.

https://archive.org/

--
Ed Huntress

Awesome, never heard of it. Thanks.
I got a tablet for Xmas and am filling it with good books/ articles.

George H.

Are you referring to the book or to the Internet Archive? If it's the
latter, take a look at Leon's posts in this thread. He's the expert. I
know the book, and have spent many hours with the author, but I'm new
to the Internet Archive..

--
Ed Huntress

On Thursday, January 18, 2018 at 10:23:47 AM UTC-5, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 06:48:39 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 2:55:12 AM UTC-5, Ed Huntress wrote:
If you know what this book is, you may know that it sells for $200 on
Amazon ($150 from Moore Tool Co.). But the Internet Archive makes it
available online for free.

If you *don't* know what this book is, and you do any accurate
machining, this is the story that defined accuracy throughout the
world for around 50 years. It's probably the most acclaimed book in
the metalworking industry. It was written by Wayne Moore, son of Dick
Moore, who invented the jig borer, the jig grinder, and many other
extreme-accuracy machines. A light-emission device made by Dick was
used by the National Bureau of Standards as the US standard for the
meter for years, before lasers.

This book explains how Moore Special Tool (now Moore Tool Co.) built
machines that positioned to millionths of an inch, before today's
electronics and lasers. It describes self-checking gages (spelling
intentional) that deliver millionths of an inch just by checking the
gage against itself, or against a duplicate. This, alone, makes it
worth reading the book.

I read it four or five times when I was at American Machinist. It gave
me a great start in understanding accuracy and accurate machines.

The only thing I see wrong with the online edition is that the
photography, which was the standard in the metalworking industry for
decades and was shot by a former LIFE magazine photographer, didn't
come through in the PDF edition. You can see what's going on, but the
original photography is spectacular.

The Internet Archive is a national treasure. You have to sign up and
log on, but it's free.

https://archive.org/

--
Ed Huntress

Awesome, never heard of it. Thanks.
I got a tablet for Xmas and am filling it with good books/ articles.

George H.

Are you referring to the book or to the Internet Archive? If it's the
latter, take a look at Leon's posts in this thread. He's the expert. I
know the book, and have spent many hours with the author, but I'm new
to the Internet Archive..

--
Ed Huntress

The book! The gage block thing you talked about reminded me (a bit) of
how you test a clock (for stability). One way is to build three clocks and then test each one against the other two. That way you can find the
most stable.

Say, I downloaded the pdf version is this djvu format much better?

George H.

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 08:29:20 -0800 (PST)
wrote:

snip
The book! The gage block thing you talked about reminded me
(a bit) of how you test a clock (for stability). One way is
to build three clocks and then test each one against the
other two. That way you can find the most stable.

Say, I downloaded the pdf version is this djvu format much
better?

That Book/Archive item is too new to the Archive. They stopped creating
djvu versions a little over a year ago. So not to worry, there is no
djvu version to download

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 10:18:52 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

snip
Of course, coming from the publishing business, I've been using
Acrobat from day one, for authoring and editing, and for print
production as well as for online readers. So I recognize what they
could be doing with Acrobat and my guess is that they just did a poor
job with the photos on that Acrobat copy of "Foundations."

Curious to know if the original scan material is better. I've mucked
through some smaller sets of raw data before. You will probably find
skewed pages and a few other warts. They show it was scanned at
300dpi. The better looking docs are usually done at 500dpi. Post a
little follow up about what you found if you get a chance

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 08:29:20 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Thursday, January 18, 2018 at 10:23:47 AM UTC-5, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 06:48:39 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 2:55:12 AM UTC-5, Ed Huntress wrote:
If you know what this book is, you may know that it sells for $200 on
Amazon ($150 from Moore Tool Co.). But the Internet Archive makes it
available online for free.

If you *don't* know what this book is, and you do any accurate
machining, this is the story that defined accuracy throughout the
world for around 50 years. It's probably the most acclaimed book in
the metalworking industry. It was written by Wayne Moore, son of Dick
Moore, who invented the jig borer, the jig grinder, and many other
extreme-accuracy machines. A light-emission device made by Dick was
used by the National Bureau of Standards as the US standard for the
meter for years, before lasers.

This book explains how Moore Special Tool (now Moore Tool Co.) built
machines that positioned to millionths of an inch, before today's
electronics and lasers. It describes self-checking gages (spelling
intentional) that deliver millionths of an inch just by checking the
gage against itself, or against a duplicate. This, alone, makes it
worth reading the book.

I read it four or five times when I was at American Machinist. It gave
me a great start in understanding accuracy and accurate machines.

The only thing I see wrong with the online edition is that the
photography, which was the standard in the metalworking industry for
decades and was shot by a former LIFE magazine photographer, didn't
come through in the PDF edition. You can see what's going on, but the
original photography is spectacular.

The Internet Archive is a national treasure. You have to sign up and
log on, but it's free.

https://archive.org/

--
Ed Huntress

Awesome, never heard of it. Thanks.
I got a tablet for Xmas and am filling it with good books/ articles.

George H.

Are you referring to the book or to the Internet Archive? If it's the
latter, take a look at Leon's posts in this thread. He's the expert. I
know the book, and have spent many hours with the author, but I'm new
to the Internet Archive..

--
Ed Huntress

The book! The gage block thing you talked about reminded me (a bit) of
how you test a clock (for stability). One way is to build three clocks and then test each one against the other two. That way you can find the
most stable.

Say, I downloaded the pdf version is this djvu format much better?

George H.

I don't think the djvu format is available for this file.

I downloaded the 331 Mb JP2.ZIP file and opened up some pages in Adobe
Photoshop CC. They look the same as the PDF. In other words, the
problem was in the way images were handled in the original scan.

The JP2s have much higher resolution -- you can see the screen dots in
the photos as sharp as a tack -- but it doesn't help. It's not a
matter of resolution. It's the way the grayscale threshholds were set.

So, enjoy the book. You can see enough with the photos in the PDF.
You're just missing the gorgeous, creamy tones in the original B&W
photos.

It is a fantastic book. Moore Special Tool Co., like this book, was a
national treasure. I spent a lot of time up there when I was a writer
for _American Machinist_.

--
Ed Huntress

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 13:11:32 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 10:18:52 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

snip
Of course, coming from the publishing business, I've been using
Acrobat from day one, for authoring and editing, and for print
production as well as for online readers. So I recognize what they
could be doing with Acrobat and my guess is that they just did a poor
job with the photos on that Acrobat copy of "Foundations."

Curious to know if the original scan material is better. I've mucked
through some smaller sets of raw data before. You will probably find
skewed pages and a few other warts. They show it was scanned at
300dpi. The better looking docs are usually done at 500dpi. Post a
little follow up about what you found if you get a chance

I looked at the JP2 images and they look the same as the PDF. It was
in the scanning, probably in the way the grayscale threshholds were
set. They look like photostats.

--
Ed Huntress

On Thursday, January 18, 2018 at 12:31:23 PM UTC-5, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 08:29:20 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Thursday, January 18, 2018 at 10:23:47 AM UTC-5, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 06:48:39 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 2:55:12 AM UTC-5, Ed Huntress wrote:
If you know what this book is, you may know that it sells for $200 on
Amazon ($150 from Moore Tool Co.). But the Internet Archive makes it
available online for free.

If you *don't* know what this book is, and you do any accurate
machining, this is the story that defined accuracy throughout the
world for around 50 years. It's probably the most acclaimed book in
the metalworking industry. It was written by Wayne Moore, son of Dick
Moore, who invented the jig borer, the jig grinder, and many other
extreme-accuracy machines. A light-emission device made by Dick was
used by the National Bureau of Standards as the US standard for the
meter for years, before lasers.

This book explains how Moore Special Tool (now Moore Tool Co.) built
machines that positioned to millionths of an inch, before today's
electronics and lasers. It describes self-checking gages (spelling
intentional) that deliver millionths of an inch just by checking the
gage against itself, or against a duplicate. This, alone, makes it
worth reading the book.

I read it four or five times when I was at American Machinist. It gave
me a great start in understanding accuracy and accurate machines.

The only thing I see wrong with the online edition is that the
photography, which was the standard in the metalworking industry for
decades and was shot by a former LIFE magazine photographer, didn't
come through in the PDF edition. You can see what's going on, but the
original photography is spectacular.

The Internet Archive is a national treasure. You have to sign up and
log on, but it's free.

https://archive.org/

--
Ed Huntress

Awesome, never heard of it. Thanks.
I got a tablet for Xmas and am filling it with good books/ articles.

George H.

Are you referring to the book or to the Internet Archive? If it's the
latter, take a look at Leon's posts in this thread. He's the expert. I
know the book, and have spent many hours with the author, but I'm new
to the Internet Archive..

--
Ed Huntress

The book! The gage block thing you talked about reminded me (a bit) of
how you test a clock (for stability). One way is to build three clocks and then test each one against the other two. That way you can find the
most stable.

Say, I downloaded the pdf version is this djvu format much better?

George H.

I don't think the djvu format is available for this file.

I downloaded the 331 Mb JP2.ZIP file and opened up some pages in Adobe
Photoshop CC. They look the same as the PDF. In other words, the
problem was in the way images were handled in the original scan.

The JP2s have much higher resolution -- you can see the screen dots in
the photos as sharp as a tack -- but it doesn't help. It's not a
matter of resolution. It's the way the grayscale threshholds were set.

So, enjoy the book. You can see enough with the photos in the PDF.
You're just missing the gorgeous, creamy tones in the original B&W
photos.

It is a fantastic book. Moore Special Tool Co., like this book, was a
national treasure. I spent a lot of time up there when I was a writer
for _American Machinist_.

--
Ed Huntress

Well I'm a hack when it comes to machining. But I look forward
to reading the book. I'm mostly a physicist by training.
Let me offer "Instruments and Experiences" by RV Jones as one of my
favorite books with many mechanical insights.
https://www.amazon.com/Instruments-E.../dp/047191763X

There is some optical stuff that you may not like, but it has lots
of good mechanical/ instrument ideas and some fun stories.
(The Felling of a chimney... I went looking for this on the web,
no luck. if there's interest I'll scan some and post)

The bad news is that this book is hard to find. I spent ~$100 for
a used copy from India several years ago.

George H.

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 12:34:24 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

snip
I looked at the JP2 images and they look the same as the PDF. It was
in the scanning, probably in the way the grayscale threshholds were
set. They look like photostats.

Thanks. I was hopeful but not surprised. I've done some trial & error
work with scanning and document creation. It isn't a straight forward
process. A lot of the good old material at Archive was done with a
Canon 5D camera and 500dpi. You could see the focus shift (fuzzy) as the
pages were turned and thickness changed sometimes. I guessing but the
operator needed to adjust the focus distance more often...

I can make djvu docs but not of the quality they have. Lizard Tech used
to be the djvu vendor:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LizardTech

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DjVu

It broke my heart when Archive dropped making djvu docs

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 14:21:41 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 12:34:24 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

snip
I looked at the JP2 images and they look the same as the PDF. It was
in the scanning, probably in the way the grayscale threshholds were
set. They look like photostats.

Thanks. I was hopeful but not surprised. I've done some trial & error
work with scanning and document creation. It isn't a straight forward
process. A lot of the good old material at Archive was done with a
Canon 5D camera and 500dpi. You could see the focus shift (fuzzy) as the
pages were turned and thickness changed sometimes. I guessing but the
operator needed to adjust the focus distance more often...

I haven't done any camera copy work for a while, but I have a 24 Mp
camera (Sony NEX-7) and some flat-field lenses for it, including a
Micro Nikkor and a Schneider Componon on a bellows. I'll give it a try
one of these days.


I can make djvu docs but not of the quality they have. Lizard Tech used
to be the djvu vendor:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LizardTech

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DjVu

It broke my heart when Archive dropped making djvu docs

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 10:16:29 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Thursday, January 18, 2018 at 12:31:23 PM UTC-5, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 08:29:20 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Thursday, January 18, 2018 at 10:23:47 AM UTC-5, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 06:48:39 -0800 (PST), wrote:

On Wednesday, January 17, 2018 at 2:55:12 AM UTC-5, Ed Huntress wrote:
If you know what this book is, you may know that it sells for $200 on
Amazon ($150 from Moore Tool Co.). But the Internet Archive makes it
available online for free.

If you *don't* know what this book is, and you do any accurate
machining, this is the story that defined accuracy throughout the
world for around 50 years. It's probably the most acclaimed book in
the metalworking industry. It was written by Wayne Moore, son of Dick
Moore, who invented the jig borer, the jig grinder, and many other
extreme-accuracy machines. A light-emission device made by Dick was
used by the National Bureau of Standards as the US standard for the
meter for years, before lasers.

This book explains how Moore Special Tool (now Moore Tool Co.) built
machines that positioned to millionths of an inch, before today's
electronics and lasers. It describes self-checking gages (spelling
intentional) that deliver millionths of an inch just by checking the
gage against itself, or against a duplicate. This, alone, makes it
worth reading the book.

I read it four or five times when I was at American Machinist. It gave
me a great start in understanding accuracy and accurate machines.

The only thing I see wrong with the online edition is that the
photography, which was the standard in the metalworking industry for
decades and was shot by a former LIFE magazine photographer, didn't
come through in the PDF edition. You can see what's going on, but the
original photography is spectacular.

The Internet Archive is a national treasure. You have to sign up and
log on, but it's free.

https://archive.org/

--
Ed Huntress

Awesome, never heard of it. Thanks.
I got a tablet for Xmas and am filling it with good books/ articles.

George H.

Are you referring to the book or to the Internet Archive? If it's the
latter, take a look at Leon's posts in this thread. He's the expert. I
know the book, and have spent many hours with the author, but I'm new
to the Internet Archive..

--
Ed Huntress

The book! The gage block thing you talked about reminded me (a bit) of
how you test a clock (for stability). One way is to build three clocks and then test each one against the other two. That way you can find the
most stable.

Say, I downloaded the pdf version is this djvu format much better?

George H.

I don't think the djvu format is available for this file.

I downloaded the 331 Mb JP2.ZIP file and opened up some pages in Adobe
Photoshop CC. They look the same as the PDF. In other words, the
problem was in the way images were handled in the original scan.

The JP2s have much higher resolution -- you can see the screen dots in
the photos as sharp as a tack -- but it doesn't help. It's not a
matter of resolution. It's the way the grayscale threshholds were set.

So, enjoy the book. You can see enough with the photos in the PDF.
You're just missing the gorgeous, creamy tones in the original B&W
photos.

It is a fantastic book. Moore Special Tool Co., like this book, was a
national treasure. I spent a lot of time up there when I was a writer
for _American Machinist_.

--
Ed Huntress

Well I'm a hack when it comes to machining. But I look forward
to reading the book. I'm mostly a physicist by training.
Let me offer "Instruments and Experiences" by RV Jones as one of my
favorite books with many mechanical insights.
https://www.amazon.com/Instruments-E.../dp/047191763X

There is some optical stuff that you may not like, but it has lots
of good mechanical/ instrument ideas and some fun stories.
(The Felling of a chimney... I went looking for this on the web,
no luck. if there's interest I'll scan some and post)

The bad news is that this book is hard to find. I spent ~$100 for
a used copy from India several years ago.

George H.

Yike. Pricey. The optical instrument subject always interests me.

--
Ed Huntress

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 13:52:59 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

snip
I haven't done any camera copy work for a while, but I have a 24 Mp
camera (Sony NEX-7) and some flat-field lenses for it, including a
Micro Nikkor and a Schneider Componon on a bellows. I'll give it a try
one of these days.

None of my digital cameras come close to that

You may find this website of interest:

http://www.diybookscanner.org/

They've added a lot more stuff since I last peeked in...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 15:04:17 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 13:52:59 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

snip
I haven't done any camera copy work for a while, but I have a 24 Mp
camera (Sony NEX-7) and some flat-field lenses for it, including a
Micro Nikkor and a Schneider Componon on a bellows. I'll give it a try
one of these days.

None of my digital cameras come close to that

You may find this website of interest:

http://www.diybookscanner.org/

They've added a lot more stuff since I last peeked in...

Gee, you have all kinds of interesting interests. If you like that
stuff, I should mention that I also have Zeiss and Schneider process
lenses for my view camera -- extreme flat-field lenses used in
photoprocess and copy work. Before they hired me to write, I did
technical photography for McGraw-Hill Publishing Co. I did a lot of
off-the-wall technical photo work in those days.

I did silver-masking of 35 mm Kodachromes for them, in my darkroom,
charging, IIRC, around $15 each. I ganged them and could do 24 of them
in an evening after work, but the jobs only came up from time to time.

Silver masking produces the same result as today's "unsharp masking"
filters in Photoshop and Gimp. It was a pretty technical skill. Today,
a five-year-old can push a button and do it in five seconds.

It's disheartening to become obsolete. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 14:56:05 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

huge snip
It's disheartening to become obsolete. d8-)

Yeah, I use to fix stuff, good thing I retired when I did. Still do for
friends when I feel ambitious, which isn't often nowadays. Now people
replace stuff, even the "repair" guy...

Hope you enjoy poking around in the old books at Archive

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 16:53:24 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 14:56:05 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

huge snip
It's disheartening to become obsolete. d8-)

Yeah, I use to fix stuff, good thing I retired when I did. Still do for
friends when I feel ambitious, which isn't often nowadays. Now people
replace stuff, even the "repair" guy...

Hope you enjoy poking around in the old books at Archive

Thanks, Leon, I'm sure I will.

--
Ed Huntress

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 16:53:24 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 14:56:05 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

huge snip
It's disheartening to become obsolete. d8-)

Yeah, I use to fix stuff, good thing I retired when I did. Still do for
friends when I feel ambitious, which isn't often nowadays. Now people
replace stuff, even the "repair" guy...

Yeah, the new "techs" are board replacers because the computer
diagnostics told them to do so.

-


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet,
balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying,
take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations,
analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a
tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is
for insects.

-Robert A. Heinlein

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 16:53:24 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 14:56:05 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

huge snip
It's disheartening to become obsolete. d8-)

Yeah, I use to fix stuff, good thing I retired when I did. Still do
for
friends when I feel ambitious, which isn't often nowadays. Now
people
replace stuff, even the "repair" guy...

Yeah, the new "techs" are board replacers because the computer
diagnostics told them to do so.

In 1970 the Army trained me to repair computer communications
'peripherals' to the component level after memorizing the machines'
operations, but the material was so difficult that only students with
science degrees completed it. Four of us survived the forty week
course, whittled down from over 80 entrants. We were available only
because the grad school draft deferment had been dropped.

The Army was soon forced to revert to a test procedure for board
swappers. I think the problem was that people who could do it were
qualified for better jobs. I certainly preferred designing and
building new equipment over repairing older stuff.

-jsw

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 16:53:24 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 14:56:05 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

huge snip
It's disheartening to become obsolete. d8-)

Yeah, I use to fix stuff, good thing I retired when I did. Still do
for
friends when I feel ambitious, which isn't often nowadays. Now
people
replace stuff, even the "repair" guy...

Yeah, the new "techs" are board replacers because the computer
diagnostics told them to do so.


I was working in the semiconductor industry when surface mount came
out. Circuit board layout became much simpler without the forest of
vias to dodge, especially for inner signal layers on increasingly
dense computer boards. That soon translated into physically smaller
but equally challenging designs.

The pads for drilled holes had to be excessively large to avoid
misalignment between the photoetched copper and the separately drilled
holes. They are drilled in a stack and the glass fibers randomly
deflect the tiny bit as it goes deeper. Boards were rejected if there
wasn't a minimum ring of copper all around the drill hole, because it
wouldn't plate all the way through reliably. The hole is drilled
larger than the specified finished size to allow for plating.

It was recognized that surface mount boards may not be repairable but
the greatly reduced manufacturing cost balanced out the high price of
qualified repair technicians, the overhead of handling returns and the
higher potential of subsequent failure on hand-reworked boards.

Typically a small subset of boards caused repeated trouble while the
rest worked fine until obsolete. About half the field returns I tested
showed no fault on my test system.

I buy, recondition and use older lawn and garden equipment because
it's made of metal that I can repair or copy instead of molded plastic
I often can't. Yesterday I forged a pair of long canning-type tongs
from 1/4" gas welding rod to handle firewood for the stove.

The kitchen tongs I can buy don't last long. Fireplace tongs are
intended to grab the middle crosswise rather than the end lengthwise.

-jsw

On 01/18/2018 02:53 PM, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 14:56:05 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

huge snip
It's disheartening to become obsolete. d8-)

Yeah, I use to fix stuff, good thing I retired when I did. Still do for
friends when I feel ambitious, which isn't often nowadays. Now people
replace stuff, even the "repair" guy...

I recently repaired a printer for a neighbor -- fixed a mechanical problem with the paper feed deep inside the printer. Neighbor said I should go into business repairing printers. I pointed out that for my time at minimum wage I would have to charge twice what a new printer would cost.

--
Bob Nichols AT comcast.net I am "RNichols42"

On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 08:33:05 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 16:53:24 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 14:56:05 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

huge snip
It's disheartening to become obsolete. d8-)

Yeah, I use to fix stuff, good thing I retired when I did. Still do
for
friends when I feel ambitious, which isn't often nowadays. Now
people
replace stuff, even the "repair" guy...

Yeah, the new "techs" are board replacers because the computer
diagnostics told them to do so.

In 1970 the Army trained me to repair computer communications
'peripherals' to the component level after memorizing the machines'
operations, but the material was so difficult that only students with
science degrees completed it. Four of us survived the forty week
course, whittled down from over 80 entrants. We were available only
because the grad school draft deferment had been dropped.

Wow, large drop rate. I learned the basics at Coleman College, but
only stayed working in the field for 3 years. That means I don't have
a firm background in it, unfortunately, and can't look at a circuit on
the PCB and tell you what it does and how. :-( SKS bought the company
I worked for and moved it to Sandy Eggo, changing my 11 minute commute
to over 2 hours per day. I took the separation package.


The Army was soon forced to revert to a test procedure for board
swappers. I think the problem was that people who could do it were
qualified for better jobs. I certainly preferred designing and
building new equipment over repairing older stuff.

Good for you, and I can certainly understand your preference.
Who repaired the boards, or did they? That would be good stock to
help turn the board swappers into real techs.

-


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet,
balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying,
take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations,
analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a
tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is
for insects.

-Robert A. Heinlein

On Sun, 21 Jan 2018 19:44:53 -0600, Robert Nichols
wrote:

On 01/18/2018 02:53 PM, Leon Fisk wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 14:56:05 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

huge snip
It's disheartening to become obsolete. d8-)

Yeah, I use to fix stuff, good thing I retired when I did. Still do for
friends when I feel ambitious, which isn't often nowadays. Now people
replace stuff, even the "repair" guy...

I recently repaired a printer for a neighbor -- fixed a mechanical problem with the paper feed deep inside the printer. Neighbor said I should go into business repairing printers. I pointed out that for my time at minimum wage I would have to charge twice what a new printer would cost.

That's something that a lot of us overlook. And that's why we aren't
rich. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 20 Jan 2018 08:33:05 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 16:53:24 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jan 2018 14:56:05 -0500
Ed Huntress wrote:

huge snip
It's disheartening to become obsolete. d8-)

Yeah, I use to fix stuff, good thing I retired when I did. Still
do
for
friends when I feel ambitious, which isn't often nowadays. Now
people
replace stuff, even the "repair" guy...

Yeah, the new "techs" are board replacers because the computer
diagnostics told them to do so.

In 1970 the Army trained me to repair computer communications
'peripherals' to the component level after memorizing the machines'
operations, but the material was so difficult that only students
with
science degrees completed it. Four of us survived the forty week
course, whittled down from over 80 entrants. We were available only
because the grad school draft deferment had been dropped.

Wow, large drop rate. I learned the basics at Coleman College, but
only stayed working in the field for 3 years. That means I don't
have
a firm background in it, unfortunately, and can't look at a circuit
on
the PCB and tell you what it does and how. :-( SKS bought the
company
I worked for and moved it to Sandy Eggo, changing my 11 minute
commute
to over 2 hours per day. I took the separation package.


The Army was soon forced to revert to a test procedure for board
swappers. I think the problem was that people who could do it were
qualified for better jobs. I certainly preferred designing and
building new equipment over repairing older stuff.

Good for you, and I can certainly understand your preference.
Who repaired the boards, or did they? That would be good stock to
help turn the board swappers into real techs.

AFAIK we were trained to the Depot (highest) level although we didn't
have comparable test or soldering equipment, if any, in the "field",
more often a forest. In fact during Vietnam Europe was starved of
everything, we couldn't even get wiper blades etc for Jeeps and kept
about half our allotment of them running with personal purchases from
J.C.Whitney, which resulted in dangerously overpowered engines and
numerous roll-overs on winding back roads better suited to the
Ultimate Driving Machine. Most soldiers didn't go off base and thus
had money to burn.

Testing has evolved in the direction of not requiring expert
operators, it leverages the knowledge that designed / debugged the
prototype.
http://www.4pcb.com/pcb-electrical-testing.html

The Golden Board test is a good example. It and the Device Under Test
are driven identically in parallel and the test station or operator
looks for differences. The test station designer (me) needs to provide
a black-box imitation of the rest of the system.

-jsw