I have a small lathe that I am slowly making into a much more
rigid and accurate machine. Part of the process has been to add more
bracing to the bed. The bed is cast iron and the added bracing pieces
are also cast iron. Dura Bar. The bracing had to be bolted in place. I
couldn't think of any better way to do it.
I started on this project years ago but I posted something in
another newsgroup that made me think of this. I was worried that the
bolted in bracing might be a problem because of vibration, being
bolted in and all.
But as it turns out the bolted in parts should actually dampen
vibrations. Even though the bolted in pieces fit as perfectly as I can
make them (they are lapped to fit) I thought the interface might lead
to problems. Turns out this interface should dampen vibrations, even
though everything fits well and the bolts are quite tight.
I guess my seat-of-the-pants engineering worked better this time
than actually thinking about it.

Eric

On 12/03/2017 04:36 PM, wrote:
....
But as it turns out the bolted in parts should actually dampen
vibrations. Even though the bolted in pieces fit as perfectly as I can
make them (they are lapped to fit) I thought the interface might lead
to problems. Turns out this interface should dampen vibrations, even
though everything fits well and the bolts are quite tight.
I guess my seat-of-the-pants engineering worked better this time
than actually thinking about it.

Eric

Can you explain?
Waves arriving at the interface are partially reflected back onto
themselves, cancelling out by destructive interference. Did I get it?

On Sun, 03 Dec 2017 16:36:52 -0800, wrote:

I have a small lathe that I am slowly making into a much more
rigid and accurate machine. Part of the process has been to add more
bracing to the bed. The bed is cast iron and the added bracing pieces
are also cast iron. Dura Bar. The bracing had to be bolted in place. I
couldn't think of any better way to do it.
I started on this project years ago but I posted something in
another newsgroup that made me think of this. I was worried that the
bolted in bracing might be a problem because of vibration, being
bolted in and all.
But as it turns out the bolted in parts should actually dampen
vibrations. Even though the bolted in pieces fit as perfectly as I can
make them (they are lapped to fit) I thought the interface might lead
to problems. Turns out this interface should dampen vibrations, even
though everything fits well and the bolts are quite tight.
I guess my seat-of-the-pants engineering worked better this time
than actually thinking about it.

Eric

Interesting. In industry, there is an old method of vibration damping
that involves letting parts slip against each other. I don't know if
that's going on in your case, but it's something to consider.

Something else to keep in mind is a long story, but the short version
is that Reed-Prentice once had a young engineer who decided that he
could reduce headstock vibration by doubling the thickess of the head
casting(s). It turned out that it made vibration worse.

--
Ed Huntress

On Sun, 03 Dec 2017 16:36:52 -0800, wrote:

I have a small lathe that I am slowly making into a much more
rigid and accurate machine. Part of the process has been to add more
bracing to the bed. The bed is cast iron and the added bracing pieces
are also cast iron. Dura Bar. The bracing had to be bolted in place. I
couldn't think of any better way to do it.
I started on this project years ago but I posted something in
another newsgroup that made me think of this. I was worried that the
bolted in bracing might be a problem because of vibration, being
bolted in and all.
But as it turns out the bolted in parts should actually dampen
vibrations. Even though the bolted in pieces fit as perfectly as I can
make them (they are lapped to fit) I thought the interface might lead
to problems. Turns out this interface should dampen vibrations, even
though everything fits well and the bolts are quite tight.
I guess my seat-of-the-pants engineering worked better this time
than actually thinking about it.

Eric

One of the most rigid hobby lathes Ive ever seen was an old Rockwell
lathe bolted to a big assed chunk of granite, the bed filled with sand
and epoxied in.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

wrote in message
...
I have a small lathe that I am slowly making into a much more
rigid and accurate machine. ...

Eric

If it's an AA/Sears 109-21270 your next problem will be spindle
deflection.
http://www.lathes.co.uk/craftsman/page5.html

On Sun, 3 Dec 2017 19:48:31 -0800, dogs wrote:

On 12/03/2017 04:36 PM, wrote:
...
But as it turns out the bolted in parts should actually dampen
vibrations. Even though the bolted in pieces fit as perfectly as I can
make them (they are lapped to fit) I thought the interface might lead
to problems. Turns out this interface should dampen vibrations, even
though everything fits well and the bolts are quite tight.
I guess my seat-of-the-pants engineering worked better this time
than actually thinking about it.

Eric

Can you explain?
Waves arriving at the interface are partially reflected back onto
themselves, cancelling out by destructive interference. Did I get it?
There was some of that as well as the waves just having trouble
crossing the interface. I don't understand it very well. I'm gonna
have to spend some time learning about it.
My goal was to just make the bed into a stiffer beam. I understand
how to do that. It's all pretty easy and Machinery's Handbook has all
formulas.
Eric

On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 7:18:13 AM UTC-5, Jim Wilkins wrote:
if it's an AA/Sears 109-21270 your next problem will be spindle
deflection.
http://www.lathes.co.uk/craftsman/page5.html

If it is an AA Sears lathe , the first problem was spindle deflection.

Dan

On Mon, 4 Dec 2017 11:28:22 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 7:18:13 AM UTC-5, Jim Wilkins wrote:
if it's an AA/Sears 109-21270 your next problem will be spindle
deflection.
http://www.lathes.co.uk/craftsman/page5.html

If it is an AA Sears lathe , the first problem was spindle deflection.

Dan

And the second problem was spindle bending, right at the bottom of the
nose-thread relief.

--
Ed Huntress

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 4 Dec 2017 11:28:22 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 7:18:13 AM UTC-5, Jim Wilkins wrote:
if it's an AA/Sears 109-21270 your next problem will be spindle
deflection.
http://www.lathes.co.uk/craftsman/page5.html

If it is an AA Sears lathe , the first problem was spindle
deflection.

Dan

And the second problem was spindle bending, right at the bottom of
the
nose-thread relief.

--
Ed Huntress

It wasn't too difficult to bend back. I belted the lathe for speed and
still use it for polishing, and for drilling small deep holes like
axle grease passages, which don't have to stay precisely centered.

Since I have another lathe it might get a shop-made solid 1/2"-20
spindle with the end pointed to turn or grind between centers. The
1/2"-20 mount Jacobs chuck I usually leave on it is very nice for
odd-sized small work and filing or sanding close to the jaws.
-jsw

On Mon, 04 Dec 2017 14:30:13 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Mon, 4 Dec 2017 11:28:22 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 7:18:13 AM UTC-5, Jim Wilkins wrote:
if it's an AA/Sears 109-21270 your next problem will be spindle
deflection.
http://www.lathes.co.uk/craftsman/page5.html

If it is an AA Sears lathe , the first problem was spindle deflection.

Dan

And the second problem was spindle bending, right at the bottom of the
nose-thread relief.
Good thing it wasn't THAT Sears lathe. It's the Atlas made version.
The 101.07301 In any case I have made a new spindle. The new spindle
allows use of a Royal 3C spindle nose insert and 3C collets. I swapped
the original plain bearing headstock for the Timken tapered roller
bearing type. I still have lots more to do. I have yet to mill the
underside of the ways so that the ways become a dovetail way like
Hardinge uses. Before I do that I need to figure out how I am going to
modify the carriage so that it will work with a dovetail way.
Eric

On Mon, 04 Dec 2017 16:17:44 -0800, wrote:

On Mon, 04 Dec 2017 14:30:13 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Mon, 4 Dec 2017 11:28:22 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 7:18:13 AM UTC-5, Jim Wilkins wrote:
if it's an AA/Sears 109-21270 your next problem will be spindle
deflection.
http://www.lathes.co.uk/craftsman/page5.html

If it is an AA Sears lathe , the first problem was spindle deflection.

Dan

And the second problem was spindle bending, right at the bottom of the
nose-thread relief.
Good thing it wasn't THAT Sears lathe. It's the Atlas made version.
The 101.07301 In any case I have made a new spindle. The new spindle
allows use of a Royal 3C spindle nose insert and 3C collets. I swapped
the original plain bearing headstock for the Timken tapered roller
bearing type. I still have lots more to do. I have yet to mill the
underside of the ways so that the ways become a dovetail way like
Hardinge uses. Before I do that I need to figure out how I am going to
modify the carriage so that it will work with a dovetail way.
Eric

Wow. This is going to be a Whidbey lathe when you're done. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

On Mon, 04 Dec 2017 20:13:00 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Mon, 04 Dec 2017 16:17:44 -0800, wrote:

On Mon, 04 Dec 2017 14:30:13 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Mon, 4 Dec 2017 11:28:22 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 7:18:13 AM UTC-5, Jim Wilkins wrote:
if it's an AA/Sears 109-21270 your next problem will be spindle
deflection.
http://www.lathes.co.uk/craftsman/page5.html

If it is an AA Sears lathe , the first problem was spindle deflection.

Dan

And the second problem was spindle bending, right at the bottom of the
nose-thread relief.
Good thing it wasn't THAT Sears lathe. It's the Atlas made version.
The 101.07301 In any case I have made a new spindle. The new spindle
allows use of a Royal 3C spindle nose insert and 3C collets. I swapped
the original plain bearing headstock for the Timken tapered roller
bearing type. I still have lots more to do. I have yet to mill the
underside of the ways so that the ways become a dovetail way like
Hardinge uses. Before I do that I need to figure out how I am going to
modify the carriage so that it will work with a dovetail way.
Eric

Wow. This is going to be a Whidbey lathe when you're done. d8-)
Ooh! I like it! The "Whidbey Lathe". That's a great name ED, thanks.
Now I need to design a logo. Years ago I bought 4 magazines (I don't
remember the name right now) that have the plans in serialized form
for how to make a quick change gearbox for the Atlas 6 inch lathe. So
that's part of the planned improvements. It's a long term project but
I'm gonna want something new to play with when I retire.
Eric

On Mon, 4 Dec 2017 17:27:07 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 4 Dec 2017 11:28:22 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 7:18:13 AM UTC-5, Jim Wilkins wrote:
if it's an AA/Sears 109-21270 your next problem will be spindle
deflection.
http://www.lathes.co.uk/craftsman/page5.html

If it is an AA Sears lathe , the first problem was spindle
deflection.

Dan

And the second problem was spindle bending, right at the bottom of
the
nose-thread relief.

--
Ed Huntress

It wasn't too difficult to bend back. I belted the lathe for speed and
still use it for polishing, and for drilling small deep holes like
axle grease passages, which don't have to stay precisely centered.

Since I have another lathe it might get a shop-made solid 1/2"-20
spindle with the end pointed to turn or grind between centers. The
1/2"-20 mount Jacobs chuck I usually leave on it is very nice for
odd-sized small work and filing or sanding close to the jaws.
-jsw

I thought about keeping mine when I got my SB 10L, but shortly
thereafter I bent the spindle nose, like many other people did.

An editor friend at American Machinist, who made flying model
airplanes, wanted it. So, having plenty of resources as an editor
d8-), I turned a new spindle on the SB from a piece of O1 drill rod
and had it heat treated at a friendly shop.

The editor I gave it to, Bob Hatschek, used it for years, and I was
told it worked great. If I had to buy the barstock and pay for the
heat treatment, I probably wouldn't have done it. It would be too easy
to warp it when quenching if I heat treated it with my meager
facilities.

--
Ed Huntress

On Mon, 04 Dec 2017 18:01:09 -0800, wrote:

On Mon, 04 Dec 2017 20:13:00 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Mon, 04 Dec 2017 16:17:44 -0800, wrote:

On Mon, 04 Dec 2017 14:30:13 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Mon, 4 Dec 2017 11:28:22 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 7:18:13 AM UTC-5, Jim Wilkins wrote:
if it's an AA/Sears 109-21270 your next problem will be spindle
deflection.
http://www.lathes.co.uk/craftsman/page5.html

If it is an AA Sears lathe , the first problem was spindle deflection.

Dan

And the second problem was spindle bending, right at the bottom of the
nose-thread relief.
Good thing it wasn't THAT Sears lathe. It's the Atlas made version.
The 101.07301 In any case I have made a new spindle. The new spindle
allows use of a Royal 3C spindle nose insert and 3C collets. I swapped
the original plain bearing headstock for the Timken tapered roller
bearing type. I still have lots more to do. I have yet to mill the
underside of the ways so that the ways become a dovetail way like
Hardinge uses. Before I do that I need to figure out how I am going to
modify the carriage so that it will work with a dovetail way.
Eric

Wow. This is going to be a Whidbey lathe when you're done. d8-)
Ooh! I like it! The "Whidbey Lathe". That's a great name ED, thanks.
Now I need to design a logo. Years ago I bought 4 magazines (I don't
remember the name right now) that have the plans in serialized form
for how to make a quick change gearbox for the Atlas 6 inch lathe. So
that's part of the planned improvements. It's a long term project but
I'm gonna want something new to play with when I retire.
Eric

That's what makes this hobby fun.

My thing has always been learning old-time toolmaking methods. That's
partly because the lathe, which I inherited, came with a bunch of
toolmaking tools, and partly because I had to research a lot about it
for writing my sections of American Machinist's 100th Anniversary
issue in 1977.

I must get back to it soon, after I catch up with all of the
home-repair jobs I left idle until I retired.

--
Ed Huntress

On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 9:00:07 PM UTC-5, wrote:



have the plans in serialized form
for how to make a quick change gearbox for the Atlas 6 inch lathe. So
that's part of the planned improvements. It's a long term project but
I'm gonna want something new to play with when I retire.
Eric

You might stop by your lawn equipment dealer and see if they would let you pick through their scrap bin. The little riding lawn mowers have a 6 speed transmission that could supply the gears for the gear box. The local dealer has thrown out a couple of them.

Dan

On Tue, 5 Dec 2017 05:02:45 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 9:00:07 PM UTC-5, wrote:



have the plans in serialized form
for how to make a quick change gearbox for the Atlas 6 inch lathe. So
that's part of the planned improvements. It's a long term project but
I'm gonna want something new to play with when I retire.
Eric

You might stop by your lawn equipment dealer and see if they would let you pick through their scrap bin. The little riding lawn mowers have a 6 speed transmission that could supply the gears for the gear box. The local dealer has thrown out a couple of them.

Dan
I need specific gears Dan. But that's OK. I'm partway through a device
for making gear cutters. The device is called the "Eureka" and it
automatically backs off the gear teeth while the blank is spinning on
the lathe. I've done the hard part which is making the spindle with
the eccentric diameters. After I make the gear cutters making the
gears themselves will be easy. I've cut spur and worm gears before so
I know.
Eric

wrote in message
...
On Tue, 5 Dec 2017 05:02:45 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 9:00:07 PM UTC-5,
wrote:



have the plans in serialized form
for how to make a quick change gearbox for the Atlas 6 inch lathe.
So
that's part of the planned improvements. It's a long term project
but
I'm gonna want something new to play with when I retire.
Eric

You might stop by your lawn equipment dealer and see if they would
let you pick through their scrap bin. The little riding lawn
mowers have a 6 speed transmission that could supply the gears for
the gear box. The local dealer has thrown out a couple of them.

Dan
I need specific gears Dan. But that's OK. I'm partway through a
device
for making gear cutters. The device is called the "Eureka" and it
automatically backs off the gear teeth while the blank is spinning
on
the lathe. I've done the hard part which is making the spindle with
the eccentric diameters. After I make the gear cutters making the
gears themselves will be easy. I've cut spur and worm gears before
so
I know.
Eric

Are you using Ivan Law's method of faking an involute or some other?
-jsw

On Tuesday, December 5, 2017 at 11:31:23 AM UTC-5, wrote:

I need specific gears Dan. But that's OK. I'm partway through a device
for making gear cutters. The device is called the "Eureka" and it
automatically backs off the gear teeth while the blank is spinning on
the lathe. I've done the hard part which is making the spindle with
the eccentric diameters. After I make the gear cutters making the
gears themselves will be easy. I've cut spur and worm gears before so
I know.
Eric

I had a quick look at one of the lawn tractor transmissions. There are 10 gears and no two alike. If you change your mind and let me know what sizes you need , I will check and let you know what sizes are in the transmissions.

Dan

On Mon, 04 Dec 2017 21:04:10 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Mon, 4 Dec 2017 17:27:07 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 4 Dec 2017 11:28:22 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 7:18:13 AM UTC-5, Jim Wilkins wrote:
if it's an AA/Sears 109-21270 your next problem will be spindle
deflection.
http://www.lathes.co.uk/craftsman/page5.html

If it is an AA Sears lathe , the first problem was spindle
deflection.

Dan

And the second problem was spindle bending, right at the bottom of
the
nose-thread relief.

--
Ed Huntress

It wasn't too difficult to bend back. I belted the lathe for speed and
still use it for polishing, and for drilling small deep holes like
axle grease passages, which don't have to stay precisely centered.

Since I have another lathe it might get a shop-made solid 1/2"-20
spindle with the end pointed to turn or grind between centers. The
1/2"-20 mount Jacobs chuck I usually leave on it is very nice for
odd-sized small work and filing or sanding close to the jaws.
-jsw

I thought about keeping mine when I got my SB 10L, but shortly
thereafter I bent the spindle nose, like many other people did.

An editor friend at American Machinist, who made flying model
airplanes, wanted it. So, having plenty of resources as an editor
d8-), I turned a new spindle on the SB from a piece of O1 drill rod
and had it heat treated at a friendly shop.

The editor I gave it to, Bob Hatschek, used it for years, and I was
told it worked great. If I had to buy the barstock and pay for the
heat treatment, I probably wouldn't have done it. It would be too easy
to warp it when quenching if I heat treated it with my meager
facilities.
Not long after I got my 9" SB 'A', I saw one of the atlas lathes for
$500.00, it was literaly beat to sh*t. The owner noticed me looking at
it and kept pestering me to make an offer. He wasn't too pleased when
I said I could probably re-sell it for two dollars as scrap.

On Tue, 05 Dec 2017 20:32:07 -0500, Gerry
wrote:

On Mon, 04 Dec 2017 21:04:10 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Mon, 4 Dec 2017 17:27:07 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 4 Dec 2017 11:28:22 -0800 (PST), "
wrote:

On Monday, December 4, 2017 at 7:18:13 AM UTC-5, Jim Wilkins wrote:
if it's an AA/Sears 109-21270 your next problem will be spindle
deflection.
http://www.lathes.co.uk/craftsman/page5.html

If it is an AA Sears lathe , the first problem was spindle
deflection.

Dan

And the second problem was spindle bending, right at the bottom of
the
nose-thread relief.

--
Ed Huntress

It wasn't too difficult to bend back. I belted the lathe for speed and
still use it for polishing, and for drilling small deep holes like
axle grease passages, which don't have to stay precisely centered.

Since I have another lathe it might get a shop-made solid 1/2"-20
spindle with the end pointed to turn or grind between centers. The
1/2"-20 mount Jacobs chuck I usually leave on it is very nice for
odd-sized small work and filing or sanding close to the jaws.
-jsw

I thought about keeping mine when I got my SB 10L, but shortly
thereafter I bent the spindle nose, like many other people did.

An editor friend at American Machinist, who made flying model
airplanes, wanted it. So, having plenty of resources as an editor
d8-), I turned a new spindle on the SB from a piece of O1 drill rod
and had it heat treated at a friendly shop.

The editor I gave it to, Bob Hatschek, used it for years, and I was
told it worked great. If I had to buy the barstock and pay for the
heat treatment, I probably wouldn't have done it. It would be too easy
to warp it when quenching if I heat treated it with my meager
facilities.
Not long after I got my 9" SB 'A', I saw one of the atlas lathes for
$500.00, it was literaly beat to sh*t. The owner noticed me looking at
it and kept pestering me to make an offer. He wasn't too pleased when
I said I could probably re-sell it for two dollars as scrap.

Keep in mind that we're talking about two different lathes here. The
little Sears 6" lathes, for which I made a spindle, were barely real
lathes.

But Atlas made a decent box-way (flat-way) lathe for Sears that
actually was a pretty good little machine. I don't think I ever saw
one, but I ran a 10" Atlas at the shop I had invested in, and there
was nothing wrong with it.

The box ways versus V-ways issue really was a matter of the
manufacturing capabilities of the manufacterer. With good
construction, either one could deliver good performance.

When I worked at Wasino we sold a smallish machine that guaranteed 50
millionths turning accuracy. It really would deliver it, and it had
box ways. It was one of the most accurate lathes in the world.

--
Ed Huntress