This video shows a slitting saw mounted in a
boring head. Is there a special reason for doing
this? The cutting is simular to that of a shaper rather
than that of a saw cutting continously.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAGSrGmHDaY

Best Regards
Tom.

---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

On Sep 19, 2017, Howard Beel wrote
(in article ):

This video shows a slitting saw mounted in a
boring head. Is there a special reason for doing
this? The cutting is simular to that of a shaper rather
than that of a saw cutting continously.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAGSrGmHDaY
Bad idea. And the saw slips for lack of a antirotation key. Probably cobbled
together.

And the saw blade is badly fouled with adhering chips - looks like aluminum,
even though the billet is dark colored. Slitting needs to be done wet.

Joe Gwinn

Howard Beel wrote:

This video shows a slitting saw mounted in a
boring head. Is there a special reason for doing
this? The cutting is simular to that of a shaper rather
than that of a saw cutting continously.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAGSrGmHDaY
Yeah, that's amazing. As in, BAD! I always use a slitting saw with flood
coolant. I have several arbors that can be used with them. The bigger ones
do have a keyway, the smaller ones don't, but don't seem to slip with
reasonable depth of cut and feedrate.

Jon

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...
Howard Beel wrote:

This video shows a slitting saw mounted in a
boring head. Is there a special reason for doing
this? The cutting is simular to that of a shaper rather
than that of a saw cutting continously.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAGSrGmHDaY
Yeah, that's amazing. As in, BAD! I always use a slitting saw with flood
coolant. I have several arbors that can be used with them. The bigger
ones
do have a keyway, the smaller ones don't, but don't seem to slip with
reasonable depth of cut and feedrate.

Jon

I have found that most slitting saws have some runout and usually need
a touch up when mounted in the arbor. For some reason there always
seem to be a few teeth that are higher than the rest. Some of the blades
i indicated were 15 thou out of round and i sent them back to the vendor.
After mounting the saw in the mill i indicate it and mark the high teeth
then use a dumore tool post grinder to knock down the high teeth.
I like the peterson expanding flush mount arbors and robbjack arbors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hWW5enRfmw

Best Regards
Tom.



---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

Howard Beel wrote:


I have found that most slitting saws have some runout and usually need
a touch up when mounted in the arbor. For some reason there always
seem to be a few teeth that are higher than the rest. Some of the blades
i indicated were 15 thou out of round and i sent them back to the vendor.
After mounting the saw in the mill i indicate it and mark the high teeth
then use a dumore tool post grinder to knock down the high teeth.
I like the peterson expanding flush mount arbors and robbjack arbors.
Yes, I can certainly hear the runout as a zing-zing-zing as the spindle
rotates. It doesn't seem to hurt the operation or affect surface finish
much in the groove. So, I just live with it.

My guess is these things are punched out of blanks, rather than machined and
sharpened on an arbor.

Jon

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
news
Howard Beel wrote:


I have found that most slitting saws have some runout and usually need
a touch up when mounted in the arbor. For some reason there always
seem to be a few teeth that are higher than the rest. Some of the blades
i indicated were 15 thou out of round and i sent them back to the vendor.
After mounting the saw in the mill i indicate it and mark the high teeth
then use a dumore tool post grinder to knock down the high teeth.
I like the peterson expanding flush mount arbors and robbjack arbors.
Yes, I can certainly hear the runout as a zing-zing-zing as the spindle
rotates. It doesn't seem to hurt the operation or affect surface finish
much in the groove. So, I just live with it.

My guess is these things are punched out of blanks, rather than machined
and
sharpened on an arbor.

Jon

It would be intresting to how the saws are made. Since they are made of HSS
i don't think they are stampings. Maybe the hardened blanks are stacked and
ground on a specialized cnc grinder, grind a bunch of the same size saws all
at once?

Best Regards
Tom.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

"Howard Beel" wrote in message
news

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
news
Howard Beel wrote:


I have found that most slitting saws have some runout and usually
need
a touch up when mounted in the arbor. For some reason there always
seem to be a few teeth that are higher than the rest. Some of the
blades
i indicated were 15 thou out of round and i sent them back to the
vendor.
After mounting the saw in the mill i indicate it and mark the high
teeth
then use a dumore tool post grinder to knock down the high teeth.
I like the peterson expanding flush mount arbors and robbjack
arbors.
Yes, I can certainly hear the runout as a zing-zing-zing as the
spindle
rotates. It doesn't seem to hurt the operation or affect surface
finish
much in the groove. So, I just live with it.

My guess is these things are punched out of blanks, rather than
machined and
sharpened on an arbor.

Jon

It would be intresting to how the saws are made. Since they are made
of HSS
i don't think they are stampings. Maybe the hardened blanks are
stacked and
ground on a specialized cnc grinder, grind a bunch of the same size
saws all
at once?

Best Regards
Tom.

I turned and milled the shank end of a 3/8" HSS drill bit into a 1/4"
hex with retention groove to snap and lock into an extension shaft. It
cut easily with HSS tooling.
-jsw

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
news
"Howard Beel" wrote in message
news

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
news
Howard Beel wrote:


I have found that most slitting saws have some runout and usually need
a touch up when mounted in the arbor. For some reason there always
seem to be a few teeth that are higher than the rest. Some of the
blades
i indicated were 15 thou out of round and i sent them back to the
vendor.
After mounting the saw in the mill i indicate it and mark the high
teeth
then use a dumore tool post grinder to knock down the high teeth.
I like the peterson expanding flush mount arbors and robbjack arbors.
Yes, I can certainly hear the runout as a zing-zing-zing as the spindle
rotates. It doesn't seem to hurt the operation or affect surface finish
much in the groove. So, I just live with it.

My guess is these things are punched out of blanks, rather than machined
and
sharpened on an arbor.

Jon

It would be intresting to how the saws are made. Since they are made of
HSS
i don't think they are stampings. Maybe the hardened blanks are stacked
and
ground on a specialized cnc grinder, grind a bunch of the same size saws
all
at once?

Best Regards
Tom.

I turned and milled the shank end of a 3/8" HSS drill bit into a 1/4" hex
with retention groove to snap and lock into an extension shaft. It cut
easily with HSS tooling.
-jsw


All the HSS drills i have run into have soft shanks. Only the flutes are
HSS.
My collection of big drills were originaly 4 and 5 MT that i purchase cheap
because there is no hobby market for them. Generaly you can buy them at
industrial auctions for scrap prices. Just turn down the shanks to size you
need. I use a collet chuck to hold them so the shanks don't mungged up.

Best Regards
Tom.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

On 20/09/17 20:55, Howard Beel wrote:

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...
Howard Beel wrote:

This video shows a slitting saw mounted in a
boring head. Is there a special reason for doing
this? The cutting is simular to that of a shaper rather
than that of a saw cutting continously.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nAGSrGmHDaY
Yeah, that's amazing. As in, BAD! I always use a slitting saw with
flood
coolant. I have several arbors that can be used with them. The
bigger ones
do have a keyway, the smaller ones don't, but don't seem to slip with
reasonable depth of cut and feedrate.

Jon

I have found that most slitting saws have some runout and usually need
a touch up when mounted in the arbor. For some reason there always
seem to be a few teeth that are higher than the rest. Some of the blades
i indicated were 15 thou out of round and i sent them back to the vendor.
After mounting the saw in the mill i indicate it and mark the high teeth
then use a dumore tool post grinder to knock down the high teeth.
I like the peterson expanding flush mount arbors and robbjack arbors.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8hWW5enRfmw

Best Regards
Tom.



---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

Every slitting saw I have ever used seems to have some degree of runout
and is noticeable in the noise of the cutting. Most I use are top
quality as well and came from a local engineering company involved in
high volume production when it was demolished for housing and I got a
lifetimes supply of the things for no money, actually my neighbour sold
some at the local model engineering club at the first bring and buy day
and brought back more than I paid for the lot and I still have a draw
full. I usually run without a key as it was running with a key using a
large slitting saw, 8" IIRC, that it jammed and took out the main
spindle key in the BP when running with a 90 degree head. I don't run
them with flood coolant but do keep them well oiled.

"Howard Beel" wrote in message
news

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
news
"Howard Beel" wrote in message
news

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
news Howard Beel wrote:


I have found that most slitting saws have some runout and
usually need
a touch up when mounted in the arbor. For some reason there
always
seem to be a few teeth that are higher than the rest. Some of
the blades
i indicated were 15 thou out of round and i sent them back to
the vendor.
After mounting the saw in the mill i indicate it and mark the
high teeth
then use a dumore tool post grinder to knock down the high
teeth.
I like the peterson expanding flush mount arbors and robbjack
arbors.
Yes, I can certainly hear the runout as a zing-zing-zing as the
spindle
rotates. It doesn't seem to hurt the operation or affect surface
finish
much in the groove. So, I just live with it.

My guess is these things are punched out of blanks, rather than
machined and
sharpened on an arbor.

Jon

It would be intresting to how the saws are made. Since they are
made of HSS
i don't think they are stampings. Maybe the hardened blanks are
stacked and
ground on a specialized cnc grinder, grind a bunch of the same
size saws all
at once?

Best Regards
Tom.

I turned and milled the shank end of a 3/8" HSS drill bit into a
1/4" hex with retention groove to snap and lock into an extension
shaft. It cut easily with HSS tooling.
-jsw


All the HSS drills i have run into have soft shanks. Only the flutes
are HSS.
My collection of big drills were originaly 4 and 5 MT that i
purchase cheap
because there is no hobby market for them. Generaly you can buy them
at
industrial auctions for scrap prices. Just turn down the shanks to
size you
need. I use a collet chuck to hold them so the shanks don't mungged
up.

Best Regards
Tom.

I understood that the drills are HSS all over, but the shank remains
annealed for better grip.
http://www.zianet.com/ebear/metal/heattreat5.html
"mica", not "mice".

The MT2 tailstock on my lathe and B&S 7 spindle on my mill limit drill
bit size to around 3/4" for heavy cuts, 1" by going slowly. I cut
larger holes by boring or with a hole saw.
-jsw

On 21/09/17 22:57, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Howard Beel" wrote in message
news
"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
news
"Howard Beel" wrote in message
news "Jon Elson" wrote in message
news Howard Beel wrote:


I have found that most slitting saws have some runout and
usually need
a touch up when mounted in the arbor. For some reason there
always
seem to be a few teeth that are higher than the rest. Some of
the blades
i indicated were 15 thou out of round and i sent them back to
the vendor.
After mounting the saw in the mill i indicate it and mark the
high teeth
then use a dumore tool post grinder to knock down the high
teeth.
I like the peterson expanding flush mount arbors and robbjack
arbors.
Yes, I can certainly hear the runout as a zing-zing-zing as the
spindle
rotates. It doesn't seem to hurt the operation or affect surface
finish
much in the groove. So, I just live with it.

My guess is these things are punched out of blanks, rather than
machined and
sharpened on an arbor.

Jon
It would be intresting to how the saws are made. Since they are
made of HSS
i don't think they are stampings. Maybe the hardened blanks are
stacked and
ground on a specialized cnc grinder, grind a bunch of the same
size saws all
at once?

Best Regards
Tom.
I turned and milled the shank end of a 3/8" HSS drill bit into a
1/4" hex with retention groove to snap and lock into an extension
shaft. It cut easily with HSS tooling.
-jsw

All the HSS drills i have run into have soft shanks. Only the flutes
are HSS.
My collection of big drills were originaly 4 and 5 MT that i
purchase cheap
because there is no hobby market for them. Generaly you can buy them
at
industrial auctions for scrap prices. Just turn down the shanks to
size you
need. I use a collet chuck to hold them so the shanks don't mungged
up.

Best Regards
Tom.
I understood that the drills are HSS all over, but the shank remains
annealed for better grip.
http://www.zianet.com/ebear/metal/heattreat5.html
"mica", not "mice".

The MT2 tailstock on my lathe and B&S 7 spindle on my mill limit drill
bit size to around 3/4" for heavy cuts, 1" by going slowly. I cut
larger holes by boring or with a hole saw.
-jsw


I find annular cutters, rotabroaches, work great in my lathe and mill
and make light work of cutting the bulk of the material out, far better
than holes saws. In the mill I just chuck them in a 3/4" collet, in the
lathe I use a modified 2MT to 3MT adapter bored to 3/4" and fitted with
2 grub screws at 90 degrees.

"David Billington" wrote in message
news
On 21/09/17 22:57, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Howard Beel" wrote in message
news
"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
news "Howard Beel" wrote in message
news "Jon Elson" wrote in message
news Howard Beel wrote:


I have found that most slitting saws have some runout and
usually need
a touch up when mounted in the arbor. For some reason there
always
seem to be a few teeth that are higher than the rest. Some of
the blades
i indicated were 15 thou out of round and i sent them back to
the vendor.
After mounting the saw in the mill i indicate it and mark the
high teeth
then use a dumore tool post grinder to knock down the high
teeth.
I like the peterson expanding flush mount arbors and robbjack
arbors.
Yes, I can certainly hear the runout as a zing-zing-zing as the
spindle
rotates. It doesn't seem to hurt the operation or affect
surface
finish
much in the groove. So, I just live with it.

My guess is these things are punched out of blanks, rather than
machined and
sharpened on an arbor.

Jon
It would be intresting to how the saws are made. Since they are
made of HSS
i don't think they are stampings. Maybe the hardened blanks are
stacked and
ground on a specialized cnc grinder, grind a bunch of the same
size saws all
at once?

Best Regards
Tom.
I turned and milled the shank end of a 3/8" HSS drill bit into a
1/4" hex with retention groove to snap and lock into an extension
shaft. It cut easily with HSS tooling.
-jsw

All the HSS drills i have run into have soft shanks. Only the
flutes
are HSS.
My collection of big drills were originaly 4 and 5 MT that i
purchase cheap
because there is no hobby market for them. Generaly you can buy
them
at
industrial auctions for scrap prices. Just turn down the shanks to
size you
need. I use a collet chuck to hold them so the shanks don't
mungged
up.

Best Regards
Tom.
I understood that the drills are HSS all over, but the shank
remains
annealed for better grip.
http://www.zianet.com/ebear/metal/heattreat5.html
"mica", not "mice".

The MT2 tailstock on my lathe and B&S 7 spindle on my mill limit
drill
bit size to around 3/4" for heavy cuts, 1" by going slowly. I cut
larger holes by boring or with a hole saw.
-jsw


I find annular cutters, rotabroaches, work great in my lathe and
mill and make light work of cutting the bulk of the material out,
far better than holes saws. In the mill I just chuck them in a 3/4"
collet, in the lathe I use a modified 2MT to 3MT adapter bored to
3/4" and fitted with 2 grub screws at 90 degrees.


Thanks, I'll watch for a used set.
-jsw

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
news

"Howard Beel" wrote in message
news

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
news
"Howard Beel" wrote in message
news
"Jon Elson" wrote in message
news Howard Beel wrote:


I have found that most slitting saws have some runout and usually
need
a touch up when mounted in the arbor. For some reason there always
seem to be a few teeth that are higher than the rest. Some of the
blades
i indicated were 15 thou out of round and i sent them back to the
vendor.
After mounting the saw in the mill i indicate it and mark the high
teeth
then use a dumore tool post grinder to knock down the high teeth.
I like the peterson expanding flush mount arbors and robbjack arbors.
Yes, I can certainly hear the runout as a zing-zing-zing as the
spindle
rotates. It doesn't seem to hurt the operation or affect surface
finish
much in the groove. So, I just live with it.

My guess is these things are punched out of blanks, rather than
machined and
sharpened on an arbor.

Jon

It would be intresting to how the saws are made. Since they are made of
HSS
i don't think they are stampings. Maybe the hardened blanks are stacked
and
ground on a specialized cnc grinder, grind a bunch of the same size
saws all
at once?

Best Regards
Tom.

I turned and milled the shank end of a 3/8" HSS drill bit into a 1/4"
hex with retention groove to snap and lock into an extension shaft. It
cut easily with HSS tooling.
-jsw


All the HSS drills i have run into have soft shanks. Only the flutes are
HSS.
My collection of big drills were originaly 4 and 5 MT that i purchase
cheap
because there is no hobby market for them. Generaly you can buy them at
industrial auctions for scrap prices. Just turn down the shanks to size
you
need. I use a collet chuck to hold them so the shanks don't mungged up.

Best Regards
Tom.

I understood that the drills are HSS all over, but the shank remains
annealed for better grip.
http://www.zianet.com/ebear/metal/heattreat5.html
"mica", not "mice".

The MT2 tailstock on my lathe and B&S 7 spindle on my mill limit drill bit
size to around 3/4" for heavy cuts, 1" by going slowly. I cut larger holes
by boring or with a hole saw.
-jsw

If you take a taper shank drill and test the shank with a spectrascope
you will see it is not HSS. I know this for a fact. Back in the 1970's
i was in the bussines of buying and selling alloys. Back then M2,M3
HSS would fetch around $3.00 per pound. We always cut the shank
off taper shank drills to maximize profits.

The largest drill i have is 2.75". Don't use hole saws anymore, switched
over to annular cutters. For boring i like the kennametal twin bore tooling,
no more tapering concerns and they use cheap carbide inserts. For big
holes a treapaning tool is the way i go.

Best Regards
Tom.






---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

"David Billington" wrote in message
news
On 21/09/17 22:57, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Howard Beel" wrote in message
news
"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
news "Howard Beel" wrote in message
news "Jon Elson" wrote in message
news Howard Beel wrote:


I have found that most slitting saws have some runout and
usually need
a touch up when mounted in the arbor. For some reason there
always
seem to be a few teeth that are higher than the rest. Some of
the blades
i indicated were 15 thou out of round and i sent them back to
the vendor.
After mounting the saw in the mill i indicate it and mark the
high teeth
then use a dumore tool post grinder to knock down the high
teeth.
I like the peterson expanding flush mount arbors and robbjack
arbors.
Yes, I can certainly hear the runout as a zing-zing-zing as the
spindle
rotates. It doesn't seem to hurt the operation or affect surface
finish
much in the groove. So, I just live with it.

My guess is these things are punched out of blanks, rather than
machined and
sharpened on an arbor.

Jon
It would be intresting to how the saws are made. Since they are
made of HSS
i don't think they are stampings. Maybe the hardened blanks are
stacked and
ground on a specialized cnc grinder, grind a bunch of the same
size saws all
at once?

Best Regards
Tom.
I turned and milled the shank end of a 3/8" HSS drill bit into a
1/4" hex with retention groove to snap and lock into an extension
shaft. It cut easily with HSS tooling.
-jsw

All the HSS drills i have run into have soft shanks. Only the flutes
are HSS.
My collection of big drills were originaly 4 and 5 MT that i
purchase cheap
because there is no hobby market for them. Generaly you can buy them
at
industrial auctions for scrap prices. Just turn down the shanks to
size you
need. I use a collet chuck to hold them so the shanks don't mungged
up.

Best Regards
Tom.
I understood that the drills are HSS all over, but the shank remains
annealed for better grip.
http://www.zianet.com/ebear/metal/heattreat5.html
"mica", not "mice".

The MT2 tailstock on my lathe and B&S 7 spindle on my mill limit drill
bit size to around 3/4" for heavy cuts, 1" by going slowly. I cut
larger holes by boring or with a hole saw.
-jsw


I find annular cutters, rotabroaches, work great in my lathe and mill and
make light work of cutting the bulk of the material out, far better than
holes saws. In the mill I just chuck them in a 3/4" collet, in the lathe I
use a modified 2MT to 3MT adapter bored to 3/4" and fitted with 2 grub
screws at 90 degrees.


Agreed annular cutters also require less HP to do the job putting
less strain on your machine. They don't have the problem of chip
packing that hole saws have.

Best Regards
Tom.


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 17:57:24 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


"Howard Beel" wrote in message
news

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
news
"Howard Beel" wrote in message
news
"Jon Elson" wrote in message
news Howard Beel wrote:


I have found that most slitting saws have some runout and
usually need
a touch up when mounted in the arbor. For some reason there
always
seem to be a few teeth that are higher than the rest. Some of
the blades
i indicated were 15 thou out of round and i sent them back to
the vendor.
After mounting the saw in the mill i indicate it and mark the
high teeth
then use a dumore tool post grinder to knock down the high
teeth.
I like the peterson expanding flush mount arbors and robbjack
arbors.
Yes, I can certainly hear the runout as a zing-zing-zing as the
spindle
rotates. It doesn't seem to hurt the operation or affect surface
finish
much in the groove. So, I just live with it.

My guess is these things are punched out of blanks, rather than
machined and
sharpened on an arbor.

Jon

It would be intresting to how the saws are made. Since they are
made of HSS
i don't think they are stampings. Maybe the hardened blanks are
stacked and
ground on a specialized cnc grinder, grind a bunch of the same
size saws all
at once?

Best Regards
Tom.

I turned and milled the shank end of a 3/8" HSS drill bit into a
1/4" hex with retention groove to snap and lock into an extension
shaft. It cut easily with HSS tooling.
-jsw


All the HSS drills i have run into have soft shanks. Only the flutes
are HSS.
My collection of big drills were originaly 4 and 5 MT that i
purchase cheap
because there is no hobby market for them. Generaly you can buy them
at
industrial auctions for scrap prices. Just turn down the shanks to
size you
need. I use a collet chuck to hold them so the shanks don't mungged
up.

Best Regards
Tom.

I understood that the drills are HSS all over, but the shank remains
annealed for better grip.

Yes, and they're a lot less prone to shatter when they're deflected
sideways.

http://www.zianet.com/ebear/metal/heattreat5.html
"mica", not "mice".

Note how long it takes to anneal HSS -- 2 to 8 hours.You can't do it
with a torch.


The MT2 tailstock on my lathe and B&S 7 spindle on my mill limit drill
bit size to around 3/4" for heavy cuts, 1" by going slowly. I cut
larger holes by boring or with a hole saw.
-jsw


--
Ed Huntress

"Howard Beel" wrote in message
news

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
news

"Howard Beel" wrote in message
news

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
news "Howard Beel" wrote in message
news
"Jon Elson" wrote in message
news Howard Beel wrote:


I have found that most slitting saws have some runout and
usually need
a touch up when mounted in the arbor. For some reason there
always
seem to be a few teeth that are higher than the rest. Some of
the blades
i indicated were 15 thou out of round and i sent them back to
the vendor.
After mounting the saw in the mill i indicate it and mark the
high teeth
then use a dumore tool post grinder to knock down the high
teeth.
I like the peterson expanding flush mount arbors and robbjack
arbors.
Yes, I can certainly hear the runout as a zing-zing-zing as the
spindle
rotates. It doesn't seem to hurt the operation or affect
surface finish
much in the groove. So, I just live with it.

My guess is these things are punched out of blanks, rather than
machined and
sharpened on an arbor.

Jon

It would be intresting to how the saws are made. Since they are
made of HSS
i don't think they are stampings. Maybe the hardened blanks are
stacked and
ground on a specialized cnc grinder, grind a bunch of the same
size saws all
at once?

Best Regards
Tom.

I turned and milled the shank end of a 3/8" HSS drill bit into a
1/4" hex with retention groove to snap and lock into an extension
shaft. It cut easily with HSS tooling.
-jsw


All the HSS drills i have run into have soft shanks. Only the
flutes are HSS.
My collection of big drills were originaly 4 and 5 MT that i
purchase cheap
because there is no hobby market for them. Generaly you can buy
them at
industrial auctions for scrap prices. Just turn down the shanks to
size you
need. I use a collet chuck to hold them so the shanks don't
mungged up.

Best Regards
Tom.

I understood that the drills are HSS all over, but the shank
remains annealed for better grip.
http://www.zianet.com/ebear/metal/heattreat5.html
"mica", not "mice".

The MT2 tailstock on my lathe and B&S 7 spindle on my mill limit
drill bit size to around 3/4" for heavy cuts, 1" by going slowly. I
cut larger holes by boring or with a hole saw.
-jsw

If you take a taper shank drill and test the shank with a
spectrascope
you will see it is not HSS. I know this for a fact. Back in the
1970's
i was in the bussines of buying and selling alloys. Back then M2,M3
HSS would fetch around $3.00 per pound. We always cut the shank
off taper shank drills to maximize profits.

The largest drill i have is 2.75". Don't use hole saws anymore,
switched
over to annular cutters. For boring i like the kennametal twin bore
tooling,
no more tapering concerns and they use cheap carbide inserts. For
big
holes a treapaning tool is the way i go.

Best Regards
Tom.

Annular cutters are on my shopping list now. However the large round
holes I mostly cut are for analog panel meters in thin aluminum or
plastic for which not grabbing is more important than cutting speed.

I've been putting cheap analog meters on my solar panel downleads
after losing a nice digital Wattmeter to possibly static electricity.
-jsw

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
news
"Howard Beel" wrote in message
news

"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
news

"Howard Beel" wrote in message
news
"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
news "Howard Beel" wrote in message
news
"Jon Elson" wrote in message
news Howard Beel wrote:


I have found that most slitting saws have some runout and usually
need
a touch up when mounted in the arbor. For some reason there always
seem to be a few teeth that are higher than the rest. Some of the
blades
i indicated were 15 thou out of round and i sent them back to the
vendor.
After mounting the saw in the mill i indicate it and mark the high
teeth
then use a dumore tool post grinder to knock down the high teeth.
I like the peterson expanding flush mount arbors and robbjack
arbors.
Yes, I can certainly hear the runout as a zing-zing-zing as the
spindle
rotates. It doesn't seem to hurt the operation or affect surface
finish
much in the groove. So, I just live with it.

My guess is these things are punched out of blanks, rather than
machined and
sharpened on an arbor.

Jon

It would be intresting to how the saws are made. Since they are made
of HSS
i don't think they are stampings. Maybe the hardened blanks are
stacked and
ground on a specialized cnc grinder, grind a bunch of the same size
saws all
at once?

Best Regards
Tom.

I turned and milled the shank end of a 3/8" HSS drill bit into a 1/4"
hex with retention groove to snap and lock into an extension shaft. It
cut easily with HSS tooling.
-jsw


All the HSS drills i have run into have soft shanks. Only the flutes
are HSS.
My collection of big drills were originaly 4 and 5 MT that i purchase
cheap
because there is no hobby market for them. Generaly you can buy them at
industrial auctions for scrap prices. Just turn down the shanks to size
you
need. I use a collet chuck to hold them so the shanks don't mungged up.

Best Regards
Tom.

I understood that the drills are HSS all over, but the shank remains
annealed for better grip.
http://www.zianet.com/ebear/metal/heattreat5.html
"mica", not "mice".

The MT2 tailstock on my lathe and B&S 7 spindle on my mill limit drill
bit size to around 3/4" for heavy cuts, 1" by going slowly. I cut larger
holes by boring or with a hole saw.
-jsw

If you take a taper shank drill and test the shank with a spectrascope
you will see it is not HSS. I know this for a fact. Back in the 1970's
i was in the bussines of buying and selling alloys. Back then M2,M3
HSS would fetch around $3.00 per pound. We always cut the shank
off taper shank drills to maximize profits.

The largest drill i have is 2.75". Don't use hole saws anymore, switched
over to annular cutters. For boring i like the kennametal twin bore
tooling,
no more tapering concerns and they use cheap carbide inserts. For big
holes a treapaning tool is the way i go.

Best Regards
Tom.

Annular cutters are on my shopping list now. However the large round holes
I mostly cut are for analog panel meters in thin aluminum or plastic for
which not grabbing is more important than cutting speed.

I've been putting cheap analog meters on my solar panel downleads after
losing a nice digital Wattmeter to possibly static electricity.
-jsw


You will be happy with annular cutters. For thin materials and plastics
start with a sloooow feed. I have found that thier cutting action is
agressive much more so than a hole saw. Run them slow to start
with, fine tune as you go along.

Best Regards
Tom.

I


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 21:34:22 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

Annular cutters are on my shopping list now. However the large round
holes I mostly cut are for analog panel meters in thin aluminum or
plastic for which not grabbing is more important than cutting speed.

Annulars are wicked, aggressive looking tools.
I ordered some hole saws on Ebay and they accidentally sent a set of
diamond core bits in a different size set. Got a full refund and kept
the diamonds. Ended up buying a single deep hole saw locally, and it
cut the metal door easily.


I've been putting cheap analog meters on my solar panel downleads
after losing a nice digital Wattmeter to possibly static electricity.

Bummer. Aren't your panel frames, ground wires, and control panel
face grounded? Which meter, Watt Meter (blue al), DROK, or Bayite?

--
Stoop and you'll be stepped on;
stand tall and you'll be shot at.
-- Carlos A. Urbizo

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 21:34:22 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:
.....
I've been putting cheap analog meters on my solar panel downleads
after losing a nice digital Wattmeter to possibly static
electricity.

Bummer. Aren't your panel frames, ground wires, and control panel
face grounded? Which meter, Watt Meter (blue al), DROK, or Bayite?


It's a stand-alone system at 24V or less, which is allowed to be
ungrounded. There is a ground rod for the generator when connected.
The panels can be patched in parallel for 12V or series for 24V so one
has to float. The lightning arrestors trip at 70-85V.

https://www.homepower.com/articles/s...ing-dc-systems
"Be sure to make that connection (between negative and equipment
grounding) in one place only."

This is the meter that failed by reading high. I can't prove static
caused it.
https://www.banggood.com/PZEM-031-DC...p-1111791.html

On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 08:10:11 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 21:34:22 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:
.....
I've been putting cheap analog meters on my solar panel downleads
after losing a nice digital Wattmeter to possibly static
electricity.

Bummer. Aren't your panel frames, ground wires, and control panel
face grounded? Which meter, Watt Meter (blue al), DROK, or Bayite?


It's a stand-alone system at 24V or less, which is allowed to be
ungrounded. There is a ground rod for the generator when connected.
The panels can be patched in parallel for 12V or series for 24V so one
has to float. The lightning arrestors trip at 70-85V.

Isn't static electricity usually measured in the kV?


https://www.homepower.com/articles/s...ing-dc-systems
"Be sure to make that connection (between negative and equipment
grounding) in one place only."

I get the ground loop thing, but since they're not electrically
connected, I'm going to ground my frames and rails from a separate
ground right next to their end of the roof, for the unlikely instance
of lightning. The redwood would be the most likely strike point, with
the power poles coming a close second, and the house/panels 3rd. SWAG
I'm glad I don't live in your Lightning Alley.


This is the meter that failed by reading high. I can't prove static
caused it.
https://www.banggood.com/PZEM-031-DC...p-1111791.html

Perhaps they should rename it BangBad? (mindless Blue State humor)
PeaceFair looks a mite like a Bayite, enough that both could have come
from the same factory. Perhaps I'll treat my Bayites a bit more
cautiously from now on, since I hadn't been thinking about static
damage.

Gotta get those panels UP!

--
Stoop and you'll be stepped on;
stand tall and you'll be shot at.
-- Carlos A. Urbizo

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 08:10:11 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 21:34:22 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:
.....
I've been putting cheap analog meters on my solar panel downleads
after losing a nice digital Wattmeter to possibly static
electricity.

Bummer. Aren't your panel frames, ground wires, and control panel
face grounded? Which meter, Watt Meter (blue al), DROK, or
Bayite?


It's a stand-alone system at 24V or less, which is allowed to be
ungrounded. There is a ground rod for the generator when connected.
The panels can be patched in parallel for 12V or series for 24V so
one
has to float. The lightning arrestors trip at 70-85V.

Isn't static electricity usually measured in the kV?


https://www.homepower.com/articles/s...ing-dc-systems
"Be sure to make that connection (between negative and equipment
grounding) in one place only."

I get the ground loop thing, but since they're not electrically
connected, I'm going to ground my frames and rails from a separate
ground right next to their end of the roof, for the unlikely
instance
of lightning. The redwood would be the most likely strike point,
with
the power poles coming a close second, and the house/panels 3rd.
SWAG
I'm glad I don't live in your Lightning Alley.


This is the meter that failed by reading high. I can't prove static
caused it.
https://www.banggood.com/PZEM-031-DC...p-1111791.html

Perhaps they should rename it BangBad? (mindless Blue State humor)
PeaceFair looks a mite like a Bayite, enough that both could have
come
from the same factory. Perhaps I'll treat my Bayites a bit more
cautiously from now on, since I hadn't been thinking about static
damage.

Gotta get those panels UP!

When I was a test engineer I destroyed 20V-rated components by
applying 22V to them.

The electrical system of a WW2 sub was similar to that of a hybrid
electric vehicle or a solar battery with generator backup:
https://maritime.org/doc/fleetsub/el...p3.htm#fig3-06

-jsw

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 08:10:11 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 21:34:22 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:
.....
I've been putting cheap analog meters on my solar panel downleads
after losing a nice digital Wattmeter to possibly static
electricity.

Bummer. Aren't your panel frames, ground wires, and control panel
face grounded? Which meter, Watt Meter (blue al), DROK, or
Bayite?


It's a stand-alone system at 24V or less, which is allowed to be
ungrounded. There is a ground rod for the generator when connected.
The panels can be patched in parallel for 12V or series for 24V so
one
has to float. The lightning arrestors trip at 70-85V.

Isn't static electricity usually measured in the kV?

When I worked for Texas Instruments I was checked with a static
voltmeter without my lab coat and foot straps. I pegged the 20kV
scale.


https://www.homepower.com/articles/s...ing-dc-systems
"Be sure to make that connection (between negative and equipment
grounding) in one place only."

I get the ground loop thing, but since they're not electrically
connected, I'm going to ground my frames and rails from a separate
ground right next to their end of the roof, for the unlikely
instance
of lightning. The redwood would be the most likely strike point,
with
the power poles coming a close second, and the house/panels 3rd.
SWAG
I'm glad I don't live in your Lightning Alley.


Living in Road Salt Alley is the bigger problem. I just finished
painting the fender rust repair that I was welding on this morning,
filling pinholes I found last last night with a strong light. This
time instead of inlaying a flush patch I jammed a larger piece of 22
gauge steel behind the hole and lap welded it in, sandblasted, then
filled to the template with Bondo Glass.

Supposedly my solar panels are within the TV antenna's Cone of
Protection, but so is the metal chimney and I've heard a spark jump
off the stove (now also grounded).

Even NASA admits uncertainty about lightning protection.
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/p002181.pdf

-jsw

On 2017-09-22, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Howard Beel" wrote in message
news

[ ... ]

The largest drill i have is 2.75". Don't use hole saws anymore,
switched
over to annular cutters. For boring i like the kennametal twin bore
tooling,
no more tapering concerns and they use cheap carbide inserts. For
big
holes a treapaning tool is the way i go.

Best Regards
Tom.

Annular cutters are on my shopping list now. However the large round
holes I mostly cut are for analog panel meters in thin aluminum or
plastic for which not grabbing is more important than cutting speed.

I've been putting cheap analog meters on my solar panel downleads
after losing a nice digital Wattmeter to possibly static electricity.

Have you looked at Greenlee Chassis Punches? Beware that there
are two types of round ones (excluding the keyed, and D shaped and other
specialties ones). The most common are "knockout punches" which make
holes for the terminating threads of conduit and such, and are
significantly larger than the nominal size. The others are for meters,
pilot lights, rotary switches and such, and are pretty close to nominal
size. If you find them at a hamfest, or a flea market, have a caliper
with you to see what the size actually is. (Sometimes a knockout punch
can be a size which will handle mounting a meter nicely, if you check
the size first. (Kind of hard to make the hole smaller after using the
wrong type/size of punch. :-) But they do make nice holes in aluminum
and sheet steel up to reasonable gauges.

Most come with plain draw screws, but there are ball-bearing
thrust bearings for heavier work. Use a ratchet wrench on the hex bolt
head, and if you are working on a panel rather than the side of a box,
clamp the punch end (which has two opposed flats) in the nearest milling
vise.

There are specialty ones which are nice to have too, such as the
keyed 15/32" (for toggle switch mounting so they won't turn), and the
5/8" and 1/2" D ones for fuse holders and the like.) I even have one
for mounting the 25-pin DB-25 connectors for older RS-232 connectors.

Of course, for production, a turret punch with a set of dies for
the special shapes is quicker to use. And for serious production there
are CNC punches which make all kinds of rectangular holes as needed.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Nice list there Don - I have a large collection myself, most
are electronics level but not plug/socket level/switch level.

Rounds and squares. I have some from the 20/30's and 50/60's.
Cans for the old ones and boxes for the newer ones.

The best kind have ball bearing bolts.

Martin


On 9/23/2017 9:38 PM, DoN. Nichols wrote:
On 2017-09-22, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Howard Beel" wrote in message
news

[ ... ]

The largest drill i have is 2.75". Don't use hole saws anymore,
switched
over to annular cutters. For boring i like the kennametal twin bore
tooling,
no more tapering concerns and they use cheap carbide inserts. For
big
holes a treapaning tool is the way i go.

Best Regards
Tom.

Annular cutters are on my shopping list now. However the large round
holes I mostly cut are for analog panel meters in thin aluminum or
plastic for which not grabbing is more important than cutting speed.

I've been putting cheap analog meters on my solar panel downleads
after losing a nice digital Wattmeter to possibly static electricity.

Have you looked at Greenlee Chassis Punches? Beware that there
are two types of round ones (excluding the keyed, and D shaped and other
specialties ones). The most common are "knockout punches" which make
holes for the terminating threads of conduit and such, and are
significantly larger than the nominal size. The others are for meters,
pilot lights, rotary switches and such, and are pretty close to nominal
size. If you find them at a hamfest, or a flea market, have a caliper
with you to see what the size actually is. (Sometimes a knockout punch
can be a size which will handle mounting a meter nicely, if you check
the size first. (Kind of hard to make the hole smaller after using the
wrong type/size of punch. :-) But they do make nice holes in aluminum
and sheet steel up to reasonable gauges.

Most come with plain draw screws, but there are ball-bearing
thrust bearings for heavier work. Use a ratchet wrench on the hex bolt
head, and if you are working on a panel rather than the side of a box,
clamp the punch end (which has two opposed flats) in the nearest milling
vise.

There are specialty ones which are nice to have too, such as the
keyed 15/32" (for toggle switch mounting so they won't turn), and the
5/8" and 1/2" D ones for fuse holders and the like.) I even have one
for mounting the 25-pin DB-25 connectors for older RS-232 connectors.

Of course, for production, a turret punch with a set of dies for
the special shapes is quicker to use. And for serious production there
are CNC punches which make all kinds of rectangular holes as needed.

Enjoy,
DoN.

"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2017-09-22, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Howard Beel" wrote in message
news

[ ... ]


Have you looked at Greenlee Chassis Punches? Beware that there
are two types of round ones (excluding the keyed, and D shaped and
other
specialties ones). The most common are "knockout punches" which
make
holes for the terminating threads of conduit and such, and are
significantly larger than the nominal size. The others are for
meters,
pilot lights, rotary switches and such, and are pretty close to
nominal
size. If you find them at a hamfest, or a flea market, have a
caliper
with you to see what the size actually is. (Sometimes a knockout
punch
can be a size which will handle mounting a meter nicely, if you
check
the size first. (Kind of hard to make the hole smaller after using
the
wrong type/size of punch. :-) But they do make nice holes in
aluminum
and sheet steel up to reasonable gauges.

Most come with plain draw screws, but there are ball-bearing
thrust bearings for heavier work. Use a ratchet wrench on the hex
bolt
head, and if you are working on a panel rather than the side of a
box,
clamp the punch end (which has two opposed flats) in the nearest
milling
vise.

There are specialty ones which are nice to have too, such as the
keyed 15/32" (for toggle switch mounting so they won't turn), and
the
5/8" and 1/2" D ones for fuse holders and the like.) I even have
one
for mounting the 25-pin DB-25 connectors for older RS-232
connectors.

Of course, for production, a turret punch with a set of dies for
the special shapes is quicker to use. And for serious production
there
are CNC punches which make all kinds of rectangular holes as needed.

Enjoy,
DoN.


Nice summary. When I was an industrial electrician building custom
test stations for GM I used a hydraulic Greenlee punch a lot to run
conduit. into purchased JIC control boxes which don't have knockouts..
http://www.austinenclosures.com/prod...us_Hinge_Boxes
That company fabricated racks and non-liquidtight enclosures
themselves and punched the holes on a Strippit. Later at Mitre I had a
Rotex turret punch in my model shop.

At home I have Roper Whitney XX and #5 punches, step drills, the
smaller sizes of Greenlee radio and conduit punches, and a boring head
on the mill for everything else.

I wasn't impressed with the durability of the Greenlee RS-232 punch
when used on 0.062" 6061. For home use I bought 0.050" 5052 which is
easier on the punches and the 30" 3-in-1 sheet metal machine, and
plenty strong for small portable enclosures. 0.031" is enough for
meter boxes. I still use 0.062" to package Variacs and transformers
and 0.093" for rack panels.

-jsw

On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 10:35:38 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 08:10:11 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 21:34:22 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:
.....
I've been putting cheap analog meters on my solar panel downleads
after losing a nice digital Wattmeter to possibly static
electricity.

Bummer. Aren't your panel frames, ground wires, and control panel
face grounded? Which meter, Watt Meter (blue al), DROK, or
Bayite?


It's a stand-alone system at 24V or less, which is allowed to be
ungrounded. There is a ground rod for the generator when connected.
The panels can be patched in parallel for 12V or series for 24V so
one
has to float. The lightning arrestors trip at 70-85V.

Isn't static electricity usually measured in the kV?


https://www.homepower.com/articles/s...ing-dc-systems
"Be sure to make that connection (between negative and equipment
grounding) in one place only."

I get the ground loop thing, but since they're not electrically
connected, I'm going to ground my frames and rails from a separate
ground right next to their end of the roof, for the unlikely
instance
of lightning. The redwood would be the most likely strike point,
with
the power poles coming a close second, and the house/panels 3rd.
SWAG
I'm glad I don't live in your Lightning Alley.


This is the meter that failed by reading high. I can't prove static
caused it.
https://www.banggood.com/PZEM-031-DC...p-1111791.html

Perhaps they should rename it BangBad? (mindless Blue State humor)
PeaceFair looks a mite like a Bayite, enough that both could have
come
from the same factory. Perhaps I'll treat my Bayites a bit more
cautiously from now on, since I hadn't been thinking about static
damage.

Gotta get those panels UP!

When I was a test engineer I destroyed 20V-rated components by
applying 22V to them.

I think the marketing guys sell on the "destroy voltage" numbers
rather than the "running voltage" figures Engineering gives them,
thinking it will entice more purchasers. Time was, marketing used to
have the interests of the company in mind. Unfortunately, that time
is long past. Now they think that higher sales numbers (even if they
include all the free warranty replacements) are good. sigh

My favorite LED flashlights use a Cree XM-L T6 bulb running 900LM
(lumen) max, but Chiwanese vendors are calling them 2000, 2200, 2500,
5000, and 6000LM to grab sales. AFAIC, they're bright enough, have a
zoom shroud, 3 brightness modes, flasher mode, and SOS mode, and cost
only $5 on sale, so I'm happy.


The electrical system of a WW2 sub was similar to that of a hybrid
electric vehicle or a solar battery with generator backup:
https://maritime.org/doc/fleetsub/el...p3.htm#fig3-06

Verily! Rheostat clutches? Arc chutes? Luckily, our control panels
are smaller and less expensive nowadays. I imagine that amperages
were slightly high in those boats. There were no figures quoted.

I'd like to have a new replacement copy or two of their battery banks,
though.

--
Stoop and you'll be stepped on;
stand tall and you'll be shot at.
-- Carlos A. Urbizo

On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 20:23:34 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 08:10:11 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 21:34:22 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:
.....
I've been putting cheap analog meters on my solar panel downleads
after losing a nice digital Wattmeter to possibly static
electricity.

Bummer. Aren't your panel frames, ground wires, and control panel
face grounded? Which meter, Watt Meter (blue al), DROK, or
Bayite?


It's a stand-alone system at 24V or less, which is allowed to be
ungrounded. There is a ground rod for the generator when connected.
The panels can be patched in parallel for 12V or series for 24V so
one
has to float. The lightning arrestors trip at 70-85V.

Isn't static electricity usually measured in the kV?

When I worked for Texas Instruments I was checked with a static
voltmeter without my lab coat and foot straps. I pegged the 20kV
scale.


https://www.homepower.com/articles/s...ing-dc-systems
"Be sure to make that connection (between negative and equipment
grounding) in one place only."

I get the ground loop thing, but since they're not electrically
connected, I'm going to ground my frames and rails from a separate
ground right next to their end of the roof, for the unlikely
instance
of lightning. The redwood would be the most likely strike point,
with
the power poles coming a close second, and the house/panels 3rd.
SWAG
I'm glad I don't live in your Lightning Alley.


Living in Road Salt Alley is the bigger problem. I just finished
painting the fender rust repair that I was welding on this morning,
filling pinholes I found last last night with a strong light. This
time instead of inlaying a flush patch I jammed a larger piece of 22
gauge steel behind the hole and lap welded it in, sandblasted, then
filled to the template with Bondo Glass.

Supposedly my solar panels are within the TV antenna's Cone of
Protection, but so is the metal chimney and I've heard a spark jump
off the stove (now also grounded).

Even NASA admits uncertainty about lightning protection.
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/p002181.pdf


What? You mean the brochures stating categorically that their device
is lightning-safe up to several million volts @ several million amps
have been lying to us?

Do you have a lightning arrestor at your breaker box?

--
Stoop and you'll be stepped on;
stand tall and you'll be shot at.
-- Carlos A. Urbizo

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 10:35:38 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 08:10:11 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in
message
m...
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 21:34:22 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:
.....
I've been putting cheap analog meters on my solar panel
downleads
after losing a nice digital Wattmeter to possibly static
electricity.

Bummer. Aren't your panel frames, ground wires, and control
panel
face grounded? Which meter, Watt Meter (blue al), DROK, or
Bayite?


It's a stand-alone system at 24V or less, which is allowed to be
ungrounded. There is a ground rod for the generator when
connected.
The panels can be patched in parallel for 12V or series for 24V so
one
has to float. The lightning arrestors trip at 70-85V.

Isn't static electricity usually measured in the kV?


https://www.homepower.com/articles/s...ing-dc-systems
"Be sure to make that connection (between negative and equipment
grounding) in one place only."

I get the ground loop thing, but since they're not electrically
connected, I'm going to ground my frames and rails from a separate
ground right next to their end of the roof, for the unlikely
instance
of lightning. The redwood would be the most likely strike point,
with
the power poles coming a close second, and the house/panels 3rd.
SWAG
I'm glad I don't live in your Lightning Alley.


This is the meter that failed by reading high. I can't prove
static
caused it.
https://www.banggood.com/PZEM-031-DC...p-1111791.html

Perhaps they should rename it BangBad? (mindless Blue State humor)
PeaceFair looks a mite like a Bayite, enough that both could have
come
from the same factory. Perhaps I'll treat my Bayites a bit more
cautiously from now on, since I hadn't been thinking about static
damage.

Gotta get those panels UP!

When I was a test engineer I destroyed 20V-rated components by
applying 22V to them.

I think the marketing guys sell on the "destroy voltage" numbers
rather than the "running voltage" figures Engineering gives them,
thinking it will entice more purchasers. Time was, marketing used
to
have the interests of the company in mind. Unfortunately, that time
is long past. Now they think that higher sales numbers (even if
they
include all the free warranty replacements) are good. sigh

My favorite LED flashlights use a Cree XM-L T6 bulb running 900LM
(lumen) max, but Chiwanese vendors are calling them 2000, 2200,
2500,
5000, and 6000LM to grab sales. AFAIC, they're bright enough, have
a
zoom shroud, 3 brightness modes, flasher mode, and SOS mode, and
cost
only $5 on sale, so I'm happy.


The electrical system of a WW2 sub was similar to that of a hybrid
electric vehicle or a solar battery with generator backup:
https://maritime.org/doc/fleetsub/el...p3.htm#fig3-06

Verily! Rheostat clutches? Arc chutes? Luckily, our control
panels
are smaller and less expensive nowadays. I imagine that amperages
were slightly high in those boats. There were no figures quoted.

The battery overcurrent relay was set between 12,000 and 14,000 Amps.

That manual describes the details that modern automation lets us
ignore, unless you are the designer of the automation or are putting
together a home solar system with batteries and a generator. Mine has
the extra complication of both 12V and 24V inverters which requires
floating some of the panels and being careful of cross connections.

A few month ago I posted a warning about the different types of
automotive replacement circuit breakers, since Type 1 automatically
reconnects after a timeout and Type 2 resets after power has cycled
off. Only Type 3 stays open until you push the button.

I'd like to have a new replacement copy or two of their battery
banks,
though.

And a shipyard crane to move them.

The operators had about 30 seconds to completely reconfigure the
complex switchboard from running on Diesels and charging batteries to
crash diving at full battery power. I need longer than that to change
channels (antennas) on the TV.

-jsw

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 20:23:34 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 08:10:11 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in
message
m...
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 21:34:22 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:
.....
I've been putting cheap analog meters on my solar panel
downleads
after losing a nice digital Wattmeter to possibly static
electricity.

Bummer. Aren't your panel frames, ground wires, and control
panel
face grounded? Which meter, Watt Meter (blue al), DROK, or
Bayite?


It's a stand-alone system at 24V or less, which is allowed to be
ungrounded. There is a ground rod for the generator when
connected.
The panels can be patched in parallel for 12V or series for 24V so
one
has to float. The lightning arrestors trip at 70-85V.

Isn't static electricity usually measured in the kV?

When I worked for Texas Instruments I was checked with a static
voltmeter without my lab coat and foot straps. I pegged the 20kV
scale.


https://www.homepower.com/articles/s...ing-dc-systems
"Be sure to make that connection (between negative and equipment
grounding) in one place only."

I get the ground loop thing, but since they're not electrically
connected, I'm going to ground my frames and rails from a separate
ground right next to their end of the roof, for the unlikely
instance
of lightning. The redwood would be the most likely strike point,
with
the power poles coming a close second, and the house/panels 3rd.
SWAG
I'm glad I don't live in your Lightning Alley.


Living in Road Salt Alley is the bigger problem. I just finished
painting the fender rust repair that I was welding on this morning,
filling pinholes I found last last night with a strong light. This
time instead of inlaying a flush patch I jammed a larger piece of 22
gauge steel behind the hole and lap welded it in, sandblasted, then
filled to the template with Bondo Glass.

Supposedly my solar panels are within the TV antenna's Cone of
Protection, but so is the metal chimney and I've heard a spark jump
off the stove (now also grounded).

Even NASA admits uncertainty about lightning protection.
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/p002181.pdf


What? You mean the brochures stating categorically that their
device
is lightning-safe up to several million volts @ several million amps
have been lying to us?

Do you have a lightning arrestor at your breaker box?

I haven't changed the house wiring, but I unplug a lot of things when
I hear distant thunder or radar shows an approaching storm front. We
rarely get isolated pop-up thunderstorms.

Lightning hit the pole in front of the house once, scaring the $#!+
out of the neighbor working near it. The only damage was to the old
carbon arrestor in the phone network interface box. The electric meter
and its box and drop are fairly new so I assume they are up to spec.

-jsw

On Sun, 24 Sep 2017 13:06:40 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 10:35:38 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 23 Sep 2017 08:10:11 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in
message
om...
On Thu, 21 Sep 2017 21:34:22 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:
.....
I've been putting cheap analog meters on my solar panel
downleads
after losing a nice digital Wattmeter to possibly static
electricity.

Bummer. Aren't your panel frames, ground wires, and control
panel
face grounded? Which meter, Watt Meter (blue al), DROK, or
Bayite?


It's a stand-alone system at 24V or less, which is allowed to be
ungrounded. There is a ground rod for the generator when
connected.
The panels can be patched in parallel for 12V or series for 24V so
one
has to float. The lightning arrestors trip at 70-85V.

Isn't static electricity usually measured in the kV?


https://www.homepower.com/articles/s...ing-dc-systems
"Be sure to make that connection (between negative and equipment
grounding) in one place only."

I get the ground loop thing, but since they're not electrically
connected, I'm going to ground my frames and rails from a separate
ground right next to their end of the roof, for the unlikely
instance
of lightning. The redwood would be the most likely strike point,
with
the power poles coming a close second, and the house/panels 3rd.
SWAG
I'm glad I don't live in your Lightning Alley.


This is the meter that failed by reading high. I can't prove
static
caused it.
https://www.banggood.com/PZEM-031-DC...p-1111791.html

Perhaps they should rename it BangBad? (mindless Blue State humor)
PeaceFair looks a mite like a Bayite, enough that both could have
come
from the same factory. Perhaps I'll treat my Bayites a bit more
cautiously from now on, since I hadn't been thinking about static
damage.

Gotta get those panels UP!

When I was a test engineer I destroyed 20V-rated components by
applying 22V to them.

I think the marketing guys sell on the "destroy voltage" numbers
rather than the "running voltage" figures Engineering gives them,
thinking it will entice more purchasers. Time was, marketing used
to
have the interests of the company in mind. Unfortunately, that time
is long past. Now they think that higher sales numbers (even if
they
include all the free warranty replacements) are good. sigh

My favorite LED flashlights use a Cree XM-L T6 bulb running 900LM
(lumen) max, but Chiwanese vendors are calling them 2000, 2200,
2500,
5000, and 6000LM to grab sales. AFAIC, they're bright enough, have
a
zoom shroud, 3 brightness modes, flasher mode, and SOS mode, and
cost
only $5 on sale, so I'm happy.


The electrical system of a WW2 sub was similar to that of a hybrid
electric vehicle or a solar battery with generator backup:
https://maritime.org/doc/fleetsub/el...p3.htm#fig3-06

Verily! Rheostat clutches? Arc chutes? Luckily, our control
panels
are smaller and less expensive nowadays. I imagine that amperages
were slightly high in those boats. There were no figures quoted.

The battery overcurrent relay was set between 12,000 and 14,000 Amps.

That manual describes the details that modern automation lets us
ignore, unless you are the designer of the automation or are putting
together a home solar system with batteries and a generator. Mine has

I glossed over it, but didn't see much relevance. Looking again...


the extra complication of both 12V and 24V inverters which requires
floating some of the panels and being careful of cross connections.

Yeah, I bet.


A few month ago I posted a warning about the different types of
automotive replacement circuit breakers, since Type 1 automatically
reconnects after a timeout and Type 2 resets after power has cycled
off. Only Type 3 stays open until you push the button.

I don't recall seeing that. I use Type 3 exclusively. Button and
lever.


I'd like to have a new replacement copy or two of their battery
banks,
though.

And a shipyard crane to move them.

Ayup.


The operators had about 30 seconds to completely reconfigure the
complex switchboard from running on Diesels and charging batteries to
crash diving at full battery power. I need longer than that to change
channels (antennas) on the TV.

g That must have been fun, huh?

--
Stoop and you'll be stepped on;
stand tall and you'll be shot at.
-- Carlos A. Urbizo

On Sun, 24 Sep 2017 13:26:41 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message

Do you have a lightning arrestor at your breaker box?

I haven't changed the house wiring, but I unplug a lot of things when
I hear distant thunder or radar shows an approaching storm front. We
rarely get isolated pop-up thunderstorms.

OK.


Lightning hit the pole in front of the house once, scaring the $#!+
out of the neighbor working near it. The only damage was to the old
carbon arrestor in the phone network interface box. The electric meter
and its box and drop are fairly new so I assume they are up to spec.

You assume with the people who gave us the Home Irradiator electronic
meters and Time of Use fees? Um, OK. Not so much, here.

--
Stoop and you'll be stepped on;
stand tall and you'll be shot at.
-- Carlos A. Urbizo

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Sep 2017 13:26:41 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message

Do you have a lightning arrestor at your breaker box?

I haven't changed the house wiring, but I unplug a lot of things
when
I hear distant thunder or radar shows an approaching storm front. We
rarely get isolated pop-up thunderstorms.

OK.


Lightning hit the pole in front of the house once, scaring the $#!+
out of the neighbor working near it. The only damage was to the old
carbon arrestor in the phone network interface box. The electric
meter
and its box and drop are fairly new so I assume they are up to spec.

You assume with the people who gave us the Home Irradiator
electronic
meters and Time of Use fees? Um, OK. Not so much, here.

They can read it from the street but it isn't a networked Smart Meter.
https://www.altestore.com/static/dat...ta%20Sheet.pdf

On Mon, 25 Sep 2017 07:03:29 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Sun, 24 Sep 2017 13:26:41 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message

Do you have a lightning arrestor at your breaker box?

I haven't changed the house wiring, but I unplug a lot of things
when
I hear distant thunder or radar shows an approaching storm front. We
rarely get isolated pop-up thunderstorms.

OK.


Lightning hit the pole in front of the house once, scaring the $#!+
out of the neighbor working near it. The only damage was to the old
carbon arrestor in the phone network interface box. The electric
meter
and its box and drop are fairly new so I assume they are up to spec.

You assume with the people who gave us the Home Irradiator
electronic
meters and Time of Use fees? Um, OK. Not so much, here.

They can read it from the street but it isn't a networked Smart Meter.
https://www.altestore.com/static/dat...ta%20Sheet.pdf

After I returned from a CA trip to see family last March, I found that
I wasn't sleeping normally. A couple days later, when I turned on
the faucet for the front watering, I noticed a brand new natural gas
regulator and electronic meter on the side of my house. After
learning that it had a city-wide range, I built an L-shaped frame and
tacked metal screen over it, then fastened it to the meter piping and
brounded it to the gas pipe ground wire. It shields the house from
the meter. Normal sleep resumed that night. Until then, I had been
unsure of the concern over electric meter safety, but the shielded gas
meter (much less powerful than the electronic meters from the electric
utility companies) proved to me that they can and do affect human
bodies in an unhealthy manner.

What cued me that something was hinky with the meter/reg replacement
is that the girl told me that the batteries in the meters were due for
replacement, yet the company spent (hundreds?) considerably more money
on a new meter, new regulator, new valve, plus several hours labor
rather than changing the battery.

--
Stoop and you'll be stepped on;
stand tall and you'll be shot at.
-- Carlos A. Urbizo

On Tue, 26 Sep 2017 07:45:48 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


After I returned from a CA trip to see family last March, I found that
I wasn't sleeping normally. A couple days later, when I turned on
the faucet for the front watering, I noticed a brand new natural gas
regulator and electronic meter on the side of my house. After
learning that it had a city-wide range, I built an L-shaped frame and
tacked metal screen over it, then fastened it to the meter piping and
brounded it to the gas pipe ground wire. It shields the house from
the meter. Normal sleep resumed that night.

Well then, case closed. You should start a religion.

BTW, there's a **** ton of radio waves floating around. Only way to
stop them is to put the metal screen around your head. And don't
forget to protect your friends who don't have access to Internet
wisdom, or thumbs to make use of it.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/s1ZvlKSDp_4/hqdefault.jpg

On 9/26/2017 10:54 AM, Break On Through wrote:
On Tue, 26 Sep 2017 07:45:48 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


After I returned from a CA trip to see family last March, I found that
I wasn't sleeping normally. A couple days later, when I turned on
the faucet for the front watering, I noticed a brand new natural gas
regulator and electronic meter on the side of my house. After
learning that it had a city-wide range, I built an L-shaped frame and
tacked metal screen over it, then fastened it to the meter piping and
brounded it to the gas pipe ground wire. It shields the house from
the meter. Normal sleep resumed that night.

Well then, case closed. You should start a religion.

BTW, there's a **** ton of radio waves floating around. Only way to
stop them is to put the metal screen around your head. And don't
forget to protect your friends who don't have access to Internet
wisdom, or thumbs to make use of it.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/s1ZvlKSDp_4/hqdefault.jpg

LOL!

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 25 Sep 2017 07:03:29 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
On Sun, 24 Sep 2017 13:26:41 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in
message

Do you have a lightning arrestor at your breaker box?

I haven't changed the house wiring, but I unplug a lot of things
when
I hear distant thunder or radar shows an approaching storm front.
We
rarely get isolated pop-up thunderstorms.

OK.


Lightning hit the pole in front of the house once, scaring the
$#!+
out of the neighbor working near it. The only damage was to the
old
carbon arrestor in the phone network interface box. The electric
meter
and its box and drop are fairly new so I assume they are up to
spec.

You assume with the people who gave us the Home Irradiator
electronic
meters and Time of Use fees? Um, OK. Not so much, here.

They can read it from the street but it isn't a networked Smart
Meter.
https://www.altestore.com/static/dat...ta%20Sheet.pdf

After I returned from a CA trip to see family last March, I found
that
I wasn't sleeping normally. A couple days later, when I turned on
the faucet for the front watering, I noticed a brand new natural gas
regulator and electronic meter on the side of my house. After
learning that it had a city-wide range, I built an L-shaped frame
and
tacked metal screen over it, then fastened it to the meter piping
and
brounded it to the gas pipe ground wire. It shields the house from
the meter. Normal sleep resumed that night. Until then, I had been
unsure of the concern over electric meter safety, but the shielded
gas
meter (much less powerful than the electronic meters from the
electric
utility companies) proved to me that they can and do affect human
bodies in an unhealthy manner.

What cued me that something was hinky with the meter/reg replacement
is that the girl told me that the batteries in the meters were due
for
replacement, yet the company spent (hundreds?) considerably more
money
on a new meter, new regulator, new valve, plus several hours labor
rather than changing the battery.

Single point grounds don't help much at cellular and WiFi frequencies.
Even a gap in a large conductive surface, such as a warped cabinet
door, can pass radiation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slot_antenna

-jsw

On Tue, 26 Sep 2017 17:48:46 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 25 Sep 2017 07:03:29 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Sep 2017 13:26:41 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in
message

Do you have a lightning arrestor at your breaker box?

I haven't changed the house wiring, but I unplug a lot of things
when
I hear distant thunder or radar shows an approaching storm front.
We
rarely get isolated pop-up thunderstorms.

OK.


Lightning hit the pole in front of the house once, scaring the
$#!+
out of the neighbor working near it. The only damage was to the
old
carbon arrestor in the phone network interface box. The electric
meter
and its box and drop are fairly new so I assume they are up to
spec.

You assume with the people who gave us the Home Irradiator
electronic
meters and Time of Use fees? Um, OK. Not so much, here.

They can read it from the street but it isn't a networked Smart
Meter.
https://www.altestore.com/static/dat...ta%20Sheet.pdf

After I returned from a CA trip to see family last March, I found
that
I wasn't sleeping normally. A couple days later, when I turned on
the faucet for the front watering, I noticed a brand new natural gas
regulator and electronic meter on the side of my house. After
learning that it had a city-wide range, I built an L-shaped frame
and
tacked metal screen over it, then fastened it to the meter piping
and
brounded it to the gas pipe ground wire. It shields the house from
the meter. Normal sleep resumed that night. Until then, I had been
unsure of the concern over electric meter safety, but the shielded
gas
meter (much less powerful than the electronic meters from the
electric
utility companies) proved to me that they can and do affect human
bodies in an unhealthy manner.

What cued me that something was hinky with the meter/reg replacement
is that the girl told me that the batteries in the meters were due
for
replacement, yet the company spent (hundreds?) considerably more
money
on a new meter, new regulator, new valve, plus several hours labor
rather than changing the battery.

Single point grounds don't help much at cellular and WiFi frequencies.
Even a gap in a large conductive surface, such as a warped cabinet
door, can pass radiation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slot_antenna

Would that slot antenna work with metal screen over the slot strip, or
in place of the slot strip?

What can I say? It worked.

https://www.lessemf.com/smart.html This led me to it.

--
Stoop and you'll be stepped on;
stand tall and you'll be shot at.
-- Carlos A. Urbizo

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 26 Sep 2017 17:48:46 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 25 Sep 2017 07:03:29 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in
message
m...
On Sun, 24 Sep 2017 13:26:41 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in
message

Do you have a lightning arrestor at your breaker box?

I haven't changed the house wiring, but I unplug a lot of things
when
I hear distant thunder or radar shows an approaching storm
front.
We
rarely get isolated pop-up thunderstorms.

OK.


Lightning hit the pole in front of the house once, scaring the
$#!+
out of the neighbor working near it. The only damage was to the
old
carbon arrestor in the phone network interface box. The electric
meter
and its box and drop are fairly new so I assume they are up to
spec.

You assume with the people who gave us the Home Irradiator
electronic
meters and Time of Use fees? Um, OK. Not so much, here.

They can read it from the street but it isn't a networked Smart
Meter.
https://www.altestore.com/static/dat...ta%20Sheet.pdf

After I returned from a CA trip to see family last March, I found
that
I wasn't sleeping normally. A couple days later, when I turned
on
the faucet for the front watering, I noticed a brand new natural
gas
regulator and electronic meter on the side of my house. After
learning that it had a city-wide range, I built an L-shaped frame
and
tacked metal screen over it, then fastened it to the meter piping
and
brounded it to the gas pipe ground wire. It shields the house
from
the meter. Normal sleep resumed that night. Until then, I had
been
unsure of the concern over electric meter safety, but the shielded
gas
meter (much less powerful than the electronic meters from the
electric
utility companies) proved to me that they can and do affect human
bodies in an unhealthy manner.

What cued me that something was hinky with the meter/reg
replacement
is that the girl told me that the batteries in the meters were due
for
replacement, yet the company spent (hundreds?) considerably more
money
on a new meter, new regulator, new valve, plus several hours labor
rather than changing the battery.

Single point grounds don't help much at cellular and WiFi
frequencies.
Even a gap in a large conductive surface, such as a warped cabinet
door, can pass radiation.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slot_antenna

Would that slot antenna work with metal screen over the slot strip,
or
in place of the slot strip?

What can I say? It worked.

https://www.lessemf.com/smart.html This led me to it.


When I had a nice HP vector network analyzer to test my concoctions
sometimes they worked as planned and sometimes I learned another
strange quirk of radio propagation. For instance a screen set up to
block radio signals may unintentionally become an antenna to transmit
them:
http://www.ss-pub.org/wp-content/upl...0140906-02.pdf

-jsw

They can read mine from anywhere in the country with an internet and the
pass-code. My power company reads 3 of my meters that way. Keeps them
off my place and fewer people. It aids the third party power companies
who get the data and do it themselves or perhaps they get the main one
to supply the data.

Martin


On 9/25/2017 6:03 AM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Sep 2017 13:26:41 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message

Do you have a lightning arrestor at your breaker box?

I haven't changed the house wiring, but I unplug a lot of things
when
I hear distant thunder or radar shows an approaching storm front. We
rarely get isolated pop-up thunderstorms.

OK.


Lightning hit the pole in front of the house once, scaring the $#!+
out of the neighbor working near it. The only damage was to the old
carbon arrestor in the phone network interface box. The electric
meter
and its box and drop are fairly new so I assume they are up to spec.

You assume with the people who gave us the Home Irradiator
electronic
meters and Time of Use fees? Um, OK. Not so much, here.

They can read it from the street but it isn't a networked Smart Meter.
https://www.altestore.com/static/dat...ta%20Sheet.pdf

Now they can't turn off your utility. My water meter is like
that - but the truck has to drive to the driveway to read three meters.
Water meter is in the ground.

The electric meter is power line internet. I have IOP in my house,
500Mhz. Same as the wireless. Hard wire is 1G. Outside world tap
is lower.

Martin

On 9/26/2017 9:45 AM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 25 Sep 2017 07:03:29 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 24 Sep 2017 13:26:41 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message

Do you have a lightning arrestor at your breaker box?

I haven't changed the house wiring, but I unplug a lot of things
when
I hear distant thunder or radar shows an approaching storm front. We
rarely get isolated pop-up thunderstorms.

OK.


Lightning hit the pole in front of the house once, scaring the $#!+
out of the neighbor working near it. The only damage was to the old
carbon arrestor in the phone network interface box. The electric
meter
and its box and drop are fairly new so I assume they are up to spec.

You assume with the people who gave us the Home Irradiator
electronic
meters and Time of Use fees? Um, OK. Not so much, here.

They can read it from the street but it isn't a networked Smart Meter.
https://www.altestore.com/static/dat...ta%20Sheet.pdf

After I returned from a CA trip to see family last March, I found that
I wasn't sleeping normally. A couple days later, when I turned on
the faucet for the front watering, I noticed a brand new natural gas
regulator and electronic meter on the side of my house. After
learning that it had a city-wide range, I built an L-shaped frame and
tacked metal screen over it, then fastened it to the meter piping and
brounded it to the gas pipe ground wire. It shields the house from
the meter. Normal sleep resumed that night. Until then, I had been
unsure of the concern over electric meter safety, but the shielded gas
meter (much less powerful than the electronic meters from the electric
utility companies) proved to me that they can and do affect human
bodies in an unhealthy manner.

What cued me that something was hinky with the meter/reg replacement
is that the girl told me that the batteries in the meters were due for
replacement, yet the company spent (hundreds?) considerably more money
on a new meter, new regulator, new valve, plus several hours labor
rather than changing the battery.

--
Stoop and you'll be stepped on;
stand tall and you'll be shot at.
-- Carlos A. Urbizo