Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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On Fri, 8 Sep 2017 17:45:50 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 8 Sep 2017 00:43:34 -0700 (PDT), robobass
wrote:


VAT and Sales tax? I also don't know the difference. I don't
think there is one.

I believe VAT is added at every step of manufacture, while sales
tax
is only on retail sales. We have no sales tax in Oregon, but it's
about 10.25% in California where my family still lives.


Well VAT is indeed collected at every step, but you claim it back at
all but the retail level.


Oh? How does that happen?


What does suck is imports. I have to buy certain things from
overseas, and the customs office
includes shipping costs in its duty calculations.


That does suck. That's totally unfair, but big government never
said
it was fair.


What is the gimmick behind free shipping of $5 items to the USA from
China?


They wait until entire 40' cargo containers are full, then ship.
China subsidizes the small vendors, and we all win: Chinese,
Americans, and the Capitalist Way.

Many, many American vendors buy cheap Chiwanese chit, bump the price
700%, then make huge profits on it, so I don't feel bad about buying
$0.02 to $5 items with free shipping from China. It leads to future
purchases of similar products from the States, so these are my test
products to see if I like the tech. I could have bought two LED
lights from American vendors 10 years ago for about $50. Instead, I
bought 35 different cheap LED lights from China for the same price.
Some are still working, others are still unused in their boxes, and a
few others died quick deaths. I'm still way, way ahead.

I started collecting wood, bone, and stone netsuke carvings from
China. It's interesting, beautiful, and _cheap_. Works for me.

-


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet,
balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying,
take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations,
analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a
tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is
for insects.

-Robert A. Heinlein
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What is the gimmick behind free shipping of $5 items to the USA from
China?


I think that the Chinese government subsidizes their post. In Germany we can receive imported purchases of up to like ‚¬20 ($25) without paying duty. Probably something similar in the USA. It's pretty cool. There is quite a lot of useful stuff I get from China for under 25 bucks. Of course about a fifth of it never actually arrives, and some that does is worthless, but overall I feel like I'm benefiting.
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I could have bought two LED
lights from American vendors 10 years ago for about $50. Instead, I
bought 35 different cheap LED lights from China for the same price.


Right. Those LED lights on Ebay weren't even available in shops in the west ten years ago. Now they finally are, but still at a humped up price. Expect some to fail, but most won't. I've been reading my kindle under the same Chinese "warm white" lamp for probably eight years.
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On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 14:39:27 -0700 (PDT), robobass
wrote:

I could have bought two LED
lights from American vendors 10 years ago for about $50. Instead, I
bought 35 different cheap LED lights from China for the same price.


Right. Those LED lights on Ebay weren't even available in shops in the west ten years ago. Now they finally are, but still at a humped up price. Expect some to fail, but most won't. I've been reading my kindle under the same Chinese "warm white" lamp for probably eight years.


I found and bought all cool white from them from DAY ONE.
I love 'em.

-


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet,
balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying,
take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations,
analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a
tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is
for insects.

-Robert A. Heinlein
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On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 14:17:09 -0700 (PDT), robobass
wrote:


Well VAT is indeed collected at every step, but you claim it back at all but the retail level.


Oh? How does that happen?

I'm not making this up. You just show what you have paid out, and the tax office refunds you the money. Hard to believe!


Wow, what a convoluted, expensive way to do it. Thanks for the info.
I think the Brexit folks got it right in the UK.

-


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet,
balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying,
take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations,
analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a
tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is
for insects.

-Robert A. Heinlein


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On Sat, 09 Sep 2017 14:27:36 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 8 Sep 2017 17:45:50 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 8 Sep 2017 00:43:34 -0700 (PDT), robobass
wrote:


VAT and Sales tax? I also don't know the difference. I don't
think there is one.

I believe VAT is added at every step of manufacture, while sales
tax
is only on retail sales. We have no sales tax in Oregon, but it's
about 10.25% in California where my family still lives.


Well VAT is indeed collected at every step, but you claim it back at
all but the retail level.

Oh? How does that happen?


What does suck is imports. I have to buy certain things from
overseas, and the customs office
includes shipping costs in its duty calculations.

That does suck. That's totally unfair, but big government never
said
it was fair.


What is the gimmick behind free shipping of $5 items to the USA from
China?


They wait until entire 40' cargo containers are full, then ship.
China subsidizes the small vendors, and we all win: Chinese,
Americans, and the Capitalist Way.

Many, many American vendors buy cheap Chiwanese chit, bump the price
700%, then make huge profits on it, so I don't feel bad about buying
$0.02 to $5 items with free shipping from China. It leads to future
purchases of similar products from the States, so these are my test
products to see if I like the tech. I could have bought two LED
lights from American vendors 10 years ago for about $50. Instead, I
bought 35 different cheap LED lights from China for the same price.
Some are still working, others are still unused in their boxes, and a
few others died quick deaths. I'm still way, way ahead.


According to Forbes
( Tom Ziegler, Aug 12, 2011 )

"More than half the amount you spend on products made in China
actually stays here -- going to American companies, workers,
marketers, retailers, and transport providers. The amount is at least
55 cents per each $1 spent, says a report from the Federal Reserve
Bank of San Francisco. So for that $70 pair of sneakers, $38.50 of it
boosts bottom lines here in the U.S."




I started collecting wood, bone, and stone netsuke carvings from
China. It's interesting, beautiful, and _cheap_. Works for me.

--
Cheers,

John B.

  #47   Report Post  
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On Sat, 09 Sep 2017 14:27:36 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 8 Sep 2017 17:45:50 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 8 Sep 2017 00:43:34 -0700 (PDT), robobass
wrote:


VAT and Sales tax? I also don't know the difference. I don't
think there is one.

I believe VAT is added at every step of manufacture, while sales
tax
is only on retail sales. We have no sales tax in Oregon, but it's
about 10.25% in California where my family still lives.


Well VAT is indeed collected at every step, but you claim it back at
all but the retail level.

Oh? How does that happen?


What does suck is imports. I have to buy certain things from
overseas, and the customs office
includes shipping costs in its duty calculations.

That does suck. That's totally unfair, but big government never
said
it was fair.


What is the gimmick behind free shipping of $5 items to the USA from
China?


They wait until entire 40' cargo containers are full, then ship.
China subsidizes the small vendors, and we all win: Chinese,
Americans, and the Capitalist Way.

Many, many American vendors buy cheap Chiwanese chit, bump the price
700%, then make huge profits on it, so I don't feel bad about buying
$0.02 to $5 items with free shipping from China. It leads to future
purchases of similar products from the States, so these are my test
products to see if I like the tech. I could have bought two LED
lights from American vendors 10 years ago for about $50. Instead, I
bought 35 different cheap LED lights from China for the same price.
Some are still working, others are still unused in their boxes, and a
few others died quick deaths. I'm still way, way ahead.

I was replaceing fluorescent tudes on my fish tank @ ~$8.00 every
other month and even then they were cool white and not the proper "gro
lamp" tubes. Second Son ordered a roll of LEDs on tape about 10mm wide
- a total of 173 diodes - which we mounted between two sheets of
plexiglas to replace the two fluorescent single tube fixtures. this
was about a year ago and so far all the diodes are still working and
the plants are growing like mad and the fish seem to be quite happy
(at least the guppies are reproducing like rabbits) Total cost
including a tube of silicone caulk to seal the edges of the unit -
under $10.00!
  #48   Report Post  
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On Sun, 10 Sep 2017 09:37:53 +0700, John B.
wrote:

According to Forbes
( Tom Ziegler, Aug 12, 2011 )

"More than half the amount you spend on products made in China
actually stays here -- going to American companies, workers,
marketers, retailers, and transport providers. The amount is at least
55 cents per each $1 spent, says a report from the Federal Reserve
Bank of San Francisco. So for that $70 pair of sneakers, $38.50 of it
boosts bottom lines here in the U.S."


Unless you buy directly from China as I do.


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On 10/09/17 02:24, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 9 Sep 2017 14:17:09 -0700 (PDT), robobass
wrote:

Well VAT is indeed collected at every step, but you claim it back at all but the retail level.
Oh? How does that happen?

I'm not making this up. You just show what you have paid out, and the tax office refunds you the money. Hard to believe!

Wow, what a convoluted, expensive way to do it. Thanks for the info.
I think the Brexit folks got it right in the UK.

Actually as I understand it the US is the only developed country that
doesn't have VAT, it's a tax on the value added at each stage in the
manufacturing process and so can't be as easily evaded as in the days
before VAT. IIRC it's originally a French idea. I doubt it will go away
if Brexit goes ahead. In the UK we also have a simplified VAT system for
smaller companies above the VAT threshold, currently £85k, but IIRC
below double the VAT threshold where the HMRC (Her Majesties Customs and
Excise) have evaluated various occupations and set VAT payment rates, a
few people I know charge VAT at the current 20% rate but only give HMRC
12%, the difference goes to running costs of the business. It seems to
work well but HMRC like to be paid promptly and quarterly as I
understand it, not VAT registered myself and I and others I know have no
intention of reaching that turn over level. I don't charge VAT on things
I sell as my turnover isn't large enough but I get charged VAT on
things I purchase, swings and round abouts. One of my old bosses went
VAT registered even below the threshold as he reckoned it was good for
business as it made you a larger company than you were.


-


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet,
balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying,
take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations,
analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a
tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is
for insects.

-Robert A. Heinlein



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On Sun, 10 Sep 2017 14:46:39 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 10 Sep 2017 09:37:53 +0700, John B.
wrote:

According to Forbes
( Tom Ziegler, Aug 12, 2011 )

"More than half the amount you spend on products made in China
actually stays here -- going to American companies, workers,
marketers, retailers, and transport providers. The amount is at least
55 cents per each $1 spent, says a report from the Federal Reserve
Bank of San Francisco. So for that $70 pair of sneakers, $38.50 of it
boosts bottom lines here in the U.S."


Unless you buy directly from China as I do.


What's next? An epic story about how the intrepid Gunner sailed to
China in one of his scrap boats to get his sneakers? And of course
those stupid Chinks take the junk that you've dumpster dived in
payment.

But, wait a minute! I've got it! You sailed the old scrap boat to
China, traded it for the sneakers and swam back. that's it! Our hero,
the almighty Gunner!

--
Cheers,

Schweik


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On Sun, 10 Sep 2017 14:46:39 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 10 Sep 2017 09:37:53 +0700, John B.
wrote:

According to Forbes
( Tom Ziegler, Aug 12, 2011 )

"More than half the amount you spend on products made in China
actually stays here -- going to American companies, workers,
marketers, retailers, and transport providers. The amount is at least
55 cents per each $1 spent, says a report from the Federal Reserve
Bank of San Francisco. So for that $70 pair of sneakers, $38.50 of it
boosts bottom lines here in the U.S."


About half of everything you see in Walmart and hardware stores is now
imported. And much of their profit is used to pay American workers,
so it's not the horrible thing many people make of it. If I can buy a
decent American sourced widget for a decent price, I'll buy it over a
Chinese import, but when the difference is 10x, I always go import.
That's why my shop is filled with Grizzly and Harbor Freight tools.
For the most rigorously used tools, I went with American, German, and
Japanese (Milwaukee, Bosch, Makita) name brands which held up to the
daily strain.


Unless you buy directly from China as I do.


I think the manufacturers pay for fake invoices which show a mere 45%
markup when it's likely 750% or better. I bought a beautiful jade
carving from China which would have been $50-500 over here. It cost me
$4.23, including delivery.

-


A human being should be able to change a diaper, plan an invasion,
butcher a hog, conn a ship, design a building, write a sonnet,
balance accounts, build a wall, set a bone, comfort the dying,
take orders, give orders, cooperate, act alone, solve equations,
analyze a new problem, pitch manure, program a computer, cook a
tasty meal, fight efficiently, die gallantly. Specialization is
for insects.

-Robert A. Heinlein
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On Mon, 11 Sep 2017 08:46:20 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 10 Sep 2017 14:46:39 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sun, 10 Sep 2017 09:37:53 +0700, John B.
wrote:

According to Forbes
( Tom Ziegler, Aug 12, 2011 )

"More than half the amount you spend on products made in China
actually stays here -- going to American companies, workers,
marketers, retailers, and transport providers. The amount is at least
55 cents per each $1 spent, says a report from the Federal Reserve
Bank of San Francisco. So for that $70 pair of sneakers, $38.50 of it
boosts bottom lines here in the U.S."


About half of everything you see in Walmart and hardware stores is now
imported. And much of their profit is used to pay American workers,
so it's not the horrible thing many people make of it. If I can buy a
decent American sourced widget for a decent price, I'll buy it over a
Chinese import, but when the difference is 10x, I always go import.
That's why my shop is filled with Grizzly and Harbor Freight tools.
For the most rigorously used tools, I went with American, German, and
Japanese (Milwaukee, Bosch, Makita) name brands which held up to the
daily strain.


I remember when Makita first began selling to the U.S. Many shops
would not allow that "cheap Jap ****" to be used in the shop :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

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On Sunday, September 10, 2017 at 5:26:21 AM UTC+2, Gerry wrote:
On Sat, 09 Sep 2017 14:27:36 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 8 Sep 2017 17:45:50 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 8 Sep 2017 00:43:34 -0700 (PDT), robobass
wrote:


VAT and Sales tax? I also don't know the difference. I don't
think there is one.

I believe VAT is added at every step of manufacture, while sales
tax
is only on retail sales. We have no sales tax in Oregon, but it's
about 10.25% in California where my family still lives.


Well VAT is indeed collected at every step, but you claim it back at
all but the retail level.

Oh? How does that happen?


What does suck is imports. I have to buy certain things from
overseas, and the customs office
includes shipping costs in its duty calculations.

That does suck. That's totally unfair, but big government never
said
it was fair.


What is the gimmick behind free shipping of $5 items to the USA from
China?


They wait until entire 40' cargo containers are full, then ship.
China subsidizes the small vendors, and we all win: Chinese,
Americans, and the Capitalist Way.

Many, many American vendors buy cheap Chiwanese chit, bump the price
700%, then make huge profits on it, so I don't feel bad about buying
$0.02 to $5 items with free shipping from China. It leads to future
purchases of similar products from the States, so these are my test
products to see if I like the tech. I could have bought two LED
lights from American vendors 10 years ago for about $50. Instead, I
bought 35 different cheap LED lights from China for the same price.
Some are still working, others are still unused in their boxes, and a
few others died quick deaths. I'm still way, way ahead.

I was replaceing fluorescent tudes on my fish tank @ ~$8.00 every
other month and even then they were cool white and not the proper "gro
lamp" tubes. Second Son ordered a roll of LEDs on tape about 10mm wide
- a total of 173 diodes - which we mounted between two sheets of
plexiglas to replace the two fluorescent single tube fixtures. this
was about a year ago and so far all the diodes are still working and
the plants are growing like mad and the fish seem to be quite happy
(at least the guppies are reproducing like rabbits) Total cost
including a tube of silicone caulk to seal the edges of the unit -
under $10.00!


Not bad. The hardware stores in my country charge a minimum of 15 bucks for a tube of silicone caulk. You can get in Aldi a few times a year for much less, but it's not the kind of thing you buy when you don't need it right away.
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Back to my original query.
I found a piece of light gray Corian just over the dimensions I need for about $100 delivered. It's only 12mm thick, but with an additional Y-axis brace underneath it should be fine. An unexpected benefit of my research has been that the sample piece I bought turns out to be quite useful. I made a bunch of parallel bars with it for one thing. I do a lot of operations where I want to cut through the stock a tiny bit. I was using oak or high grade plywood for these jobs. The Corian is much more dimensionally stable. Also, it solvent bonds quite nicely, so I can make complicated fixtures with it more easily than with wood or metal. I highly recommend the stuff!
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On Sat, 16 Sep 2017 09:48:29 -0700 (PDT), robobass
wrote:

Back to my original query.
I found a piece of light gray Corian just over the dimensions I need for about $100 delivered. It's only 12mm thick, but with an additional Y-axis brace underneath it should be fine. An unexpected benefit of my research has been that the sample piece I bought turns out to be quite useful. I made a bunch of parallel bars with it for one thing. I do a lot of operations where I want to cut through the stock a tiny bit. I was using oak or high grade plywood for these jobs. The Corian is much more dimensionally stable. Also, it solvent bonds quite nicely, so I can make complicated fixtures with it more easily than with wood or metal. I highly recommend the stuff!


Your welcome.


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One last thing - don't get the dust in your eyes!!!!!
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