I am moving a shed. Disassembling it, making new foundation,
reassembling it, with additions. Going from 10x10 to 10x16. The
thrills are overwhelming.

But - moving the power. Sooner or later, it has to be done. The
wall the conduit comes up in is going to get moved six feet.
Currently the plastic conduit is buried about four to five inches deep
[Code says 18" for plastic, six inches for Metal.] and snakes through
the area where the future bathroom will add on. Might as well move it
now.
"No problem" - save that I want to run power to/from the shed
from/to the shop. Which sits on the old graveled parking area. I so
do not want to dig through gravel.

The question comes with tapping one way or the other. Let us say
I go with plan A: about 20 feet of trench to the shop, route the old
line to the shed, run conduit up the outside up and through the wall.
Stick a box on the inside, and the shop is powered. Rah. Then cut a
15' trench over to the shed and use the shed's existing (but
relocated) access to reconnect it . (Plan B is connect the shed
first, then the shop)
The main issue is: where do I tap the line to power the shed?
Inside the box inside the shop? On the outside of the shop wall? Or
do I put a tee of some sort underground and mark it well ("Under this
rock is the junction box.")?

Any suggestions? My regular "All things electrical" guy is out to
lunch - er just got married. So he's a little distracted these days.

tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich.
Discussing the decline in the US's tech edge, James Niccol once wrote
"It used to be that the USA was pretty good at producing stuff teenaged
boys could lose a finger or two playing with."

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Mon, 10 Jul 2017 18:46:05 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:


I am moving a shed. Disassembling it, making new foundation,
reassembling it, with additions. Going from 10x10 to 10x16. The
thrills are overwhelming.

But - moving the power. Sooner or later, it has to be done. The
wall the conduit comes up in is going to get moved six feet.
Currently the plastic conduit is buried about four to five inches deep
[Code says 18" for plastic, six inches for Metal.] and snakes through
the area where the future bathroom will add on. Might as well move it
now.
"No problem" - save that I want to run power to/from the shed
from/to the shop. Which sits on the old graveled parking area. I so
do not want to dig through gravel.

The question comes with tapping one way or the other. Let us say
I go with plan A: about 20 feet of trench to the shop, route the old
line to the shed, run conduit up the outside up and through the wall.
Stick a box on the inside, and the shop is powered. Rah. Then cut a
15' trench over to the shed and use the shed's existing (but
relocated) access to reconnect it . (Plan B is connect the shed
first, then the shop)
The main issue is: where do I tap the line to power the shed?
Inside the box inside the shop? On the outside of the shop wall? Or
do I put a tee of some sort underground and mark it well ("Under this
rock is the junction box.")?

Any suggestions? My regular "All things electrical" guy is out to
lunch - er just got married. So he's a little distracted these days.

tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich.
Discussing the decline in the US's tech edge, James Niccol once wrote
"It used to be that the USA was pretty good at producing stuff teenaged
boys could lose a finger or two playing with."

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

There are a couple options depending on how much power you need in
each location. I assume the shop will require more.

If the shed power requirements are low, you can get away with feeding
it with ground fault circuits. They can be in seal tite flex and not
buried as deep. You can look it up in the code. I had the
electricians do that to my wife's stained glass shop because there are
only two circuits, one for a window unit, and one for lights and
receptacles. I hand dug the 180' trench, had to get around the
irrigation pipes, sewer line, and drain field. Caliche's a bitch.

Otherwise, in the past I've replaced the wire lugs below an external
disconnect with dual lugs made for the application, and fed the branch
from the disconnect.

I don't think I'd bury it. Some sort of junction box would be much
better.

Good luck.

Pete Keillor

Pete Keillor on Tue, 11 Jul 2017 06:22:30
-0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:


There are a couple options depending on how much power you need in
each location. I assume the shop will require more.

If the shed power requirements are low, you can get away with feeding
it with ground fault circuits. They can be in seal tite flex and not
buried as deep. You can look it up in the code. I had the
electricians do that to my wife's stained glass shop because there are
only two circuits, one for a window unit, and one for lights and
receptacles. I hand dug the 180' trench, had to get around the
irrigation pipes, sewer line, and drain field. Caliche's a bitch.

Otherwise, in the past I've replaced the wire lugs below an external
disconnect with dual lugs made for the application, and fed the branch
from the disconnect.

I don't think I'd bury it. Some sort of junction box would be much
better.

Pondering all the ponderables. I'm thinking I'll just make the
connection in the shed, and route the second line to the shop -
"upgrading" the industrial strength extension cord so to speak.

Good luck.

Thanks. I'm just glad I don't have to dig far, or in caliche. I
just got lots of rocks - this used to be glacier till. Drains well,
but - rocks.

tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
...
Pete Keillor on Tue, 11 Jul 2017 06:22:30
-0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:


...
Thanks. I'm just glad I don't have to dig far, or in caliche. I
just got lots of rocks - this used to be glacier till. Drains well,
but - rocks.

tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

I've been fighting through rocks and oak roots in glacial till too,
enough that I acquired a rock drill and splitting wedges. "San Angelo"
and mushroom-head "Digging" bars help a lot. I pry rocks loose with
the San Angelo bar to preserve the wider, sharper edge on the Digging
bar for chopping roots. Otherwise the Digging bar alone would be
enough.

The rock drill with a long 1-1/4" bit is pretty good for loosening
soil.
-jsw

On Wed, 12 Jul 2017 07:09:55 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
.. .
Pete Keillor on Tue, 11 Jul 2017 06:22:30
-0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:


...
Thanks. I'm just glad I don't have to dig far, or in caliche. I
just got lots of rocks - this used to be glacier till. Drains well,
but - rocks.

tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

I've been fighting through rocks and oak roots in glacial till too,
enough that I acquired a rock drill and splitting wedges. "San Angelo"
and mushroom-head "Digging" bars help a lot. I pry rocks loose with
the San Angelo bar to preserve the wider, sharper edge on the Digging
bar for chopping roots. Otherwise the Digging bar alone would be
enough.

The rock drill with a long 1-1/4" bit is pretty good for loosening
soil.
-jsw


You're reminding me of a comment my uncle made years ago, when he was
discussing our family farms in New Hampshire. My family had farmed
them since around 1670. "What did they raise?" someone asked. "Rocks,"
he replied. d8-)

--
Ed Huntress

"Jim Wilkins" on Wed, 12 Jul 2017 07:09:55
-0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
.. .
Pete Keillor on Tue, 11 Jul 2017 06:22:30
-0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:


...
Thanks. I'm just glad I don't have to dig far, or in caliche. I
just got lots of rocks - this used to be glacier till. Drains well,
but - rocks.

tschus
pyotr

I've been fighting through rocks and oak roots in glacial till too,

We must have a better quality of glacial till. Least wise I just
have lots of small rocks - baseball size and under. Plus the
occasional brick, and one slab of concrete.

Still want to sift it to separate the rocks from the dirt.

tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
news
"Jim Wilkins" on Wed, 12 Jul 2017 07:09:55
-0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
. ..
Pete Keillor on Tue, 11 Jul 2017 06:22:30
-0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:


...
Thanks. I'm just glad I don't have to dig far, or in caliche. I
just got lots of rocks - this used to be glacier till. Drains
well,
but - rocks.

tschus
pyotr

I've been fighting through rocks and oak roots in glacial till too,

We must have a better quality of glacial till. Least wise I just
have lots of small rocks - baseball size and under. Plus the
occasional brick, and one slab of concrete.

Still want to sift it to separate the rocks from the dirt.

tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

Boulders removed for the foundation are scattered around the edges of
the yard. I weighed the smallest at 1100 lbs when I hauled it out
back. I've been splitting off protruding parts of larger buried ones
that interfere with my path improvement projects.
http://www.trowandholden.com/wedgetech.php
-jsw

"Jim Wilkins" on Wed, 12 Jul 2017 22:04:10
-0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
news
"Jim Wilkins" on Wed, 12 Jul 2017 07:09:55
-0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
...
Pete Keillor on Tue, 11 Jul 2017 06:22:30
-0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:


...
Thanks. I'm just glad I don't have to dig far, or in caliche. I
just got lots of rocks - this used to be glacier till. Drains
well,
but - rocks.

tschus
pyotr

I've been fighting through rocks and oak roots in glacial till too,

We must have a better quality of glacial till. Least wise I just
have lots of small rocks - baseball size and under. Plus the
occasional brick, and one slab of concrete.

Still want to sift it to separate the rocks from the dirt.


Boulders removed for the foundation are scattered around the edges of
the yard. I weighed the smallest at 1100 lbs when I hauled it out
back. I've been splitting off protruding parts of larger buried ones
that interfere with my path improvement projects.

Yikes.

I have some really bad pics from the development near an old
apartment - massive boulder which extended into the planned roadway.
Three / four days of heavy mounted jack hammering to carve enough off
to fit the sidewalk. I think that lot got skimped on the basement,
too.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

On 7/12/2017 6:23 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
You're reminding me of a comment my uncle made years ago, when he was
discussing our family farms in New Hampshire. My family had farmed
them since around 1670. "What did they raise?" someone asked. "Rocks,"
he replied. d8-)

--

From a rockhead like you, no doubt.

On 7/10/2017 9:46 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:

I am moving a shed. Disassembling it, making new foundation,
reassembling it, with additions. Going from 10x10 to 10x16. The
thrills are overwhelming.

But - moving the power. Sooner or later, it has to be done. The
wall the conduit comes up in is going to get moved six feet.
Currently the plastic conduit is buried about four to five inches deep
[Code says 18" for plastic, six inches for Metal.] and snakes through
the area where the future bathroom will add on. Might as well move it
now.
"No problem" - save that I want to run power to/from the shed
from/to the shop. Which sits on the old graveled parking area. I so
do not want to dig through gravel.

The question comes with tapping one way or the other. Let us say
I go with plan A: about 20 feet of trench to the shop, route the old
line to the shed, run conduit up the outside up and through the wall.
Stick a box on the inside, and the shop is powered. Rah. Then cut a
15' trench over to the shed and use the shed's existing (but
relocated) access to reconnect it . (Plan B is connect the shed
first, then the shop)
The main issue is: where do I tap the line to power the shed?
Inside the box inside the shop? On the outside of the shop wall? Or
do I put a tee of some sort underground and mark it well ("Under this
rock is the junction box.")?

Any suggestions? My regular "All things electrical" guy is out to
lunch - er just got married. So he's a little distracted these days.

tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich.
Discussing the decline in the US's tech edge, James Niccol once wrote
"It used to be that the USA was pretty good at producing stuff teenaged
boys could lose a finger or two playing with."

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

You won't regret having the box above ground! I know it's a pain
BUT...it's a good excuse for the use of explosives.

Tom Gardner on Fri, 14 Jul 2017 09:33:39 -0400 typed
in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On 7/10/2017 9:46 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:

I am moving a shed. Disassembling it, making new foundation,
reassembling it, with additions. Going from 10x10 to 10x16. The
thrills are overwhelming.

But - moving the power. Sooner or later, it has to be done. The
wall the conduit comes up in is going to get moved six feet.
Currently the plastic conduit is buried about four to five inches deep
[Code says 18" for plastic, six inches for Metal.] and snakes through
the area where the future bathroom will add on. Might as well move it
now.
"No problem" - save that I want to run power to/from the shed
from/to the shop. Which sits on the old graveled parking area. I so
do not want to dig through gravel.

The question comes with tapping one way or the other. Let us say
I go with plan A: about 20 feet of trench to the shop, route the old
line to the shed, run conduit up the outside up and through the wall.
Stick a box on the inside, and the shop is powered. Rah. Then cut a
15' trench over to the shed and use the shed's existing (but
relocated) access to reconnect it . (Plan B is connect the shed
first, then the shop)
The main issue is: where do I tap the line to power the shed?
Inside the box inside the shop? On the outside of the shop wall? Or
do I put a tee of some sort underground and mark it well ("Under this
rock is the junction box.")?

Any suggestions? My regular "All things electrical" guy is out to
lunch - er just got married. So he's a little distracted these days.

You won't regret having the box above ground! I know it's a pain
BUT...it's a good excuse for the use of explosives.

Yeah.

Verb Sap: Less noticeable if scheduled for the 4th of July.

tschus
pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
news
On 7/10/2017 9:46 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:

I am moving a shed. Disassembling it, making new foundation,
reassembling it, with additions. Going from 10x10 to 10x16. The
thrills are overwhelming.

But - moving the power. Sooner or later, it has to be done. The
wall the conduit comes up in is going to get moved six feet.
Currently the plastic conduit is buried about four to five inches
deep
[Code says 18" for plastic, six inches for Metal.] and snakes
through
the area where the future bathroom will add on. Might as well move
it
now.
"No problem" - save that I want to run power to/from the shed
from/to the shop. Which sits on the old graveled parking area. I
so
do not want to dig through gravel.

The question comes with tapping one way or the other. Let us say
I go with plan A: about 20 feet of trench to the shop, route the
old
line to the shed, run conduit up the outside up and through the
wall.
Stick a box on the inside, and the shop is powered. Rah. Then cut
a
15' trench over to the shed and use the shed's existing (but
relocated) access to reconnect it . (Plan B is connect the shed
first, then the shop)
The main issue is: where do I tap the line to power the shed?
Inside the box inside the shop? On the outside of the shop wall?
Or
do I put a tee of some sort underground and mark it well ("Under
this
rock is the junction box.")?

Any suggestions? My regular "All things electrical" guy is out to
lunch - er just got married. So he's a little distracted these
days.

tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich.
Discussing the decline in the US's tech edge, James Niccol once
wrote
"It used to be that the USA was pretty good at producing stuff
teenaged
boys could lose a finger or two playing with." ---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus
software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

You won't regret having the box above ground! I know it's a pain
BUT...it's a good excuse for the use of explosives.


"Handhole Enclosures" for buried wiring junctions:
http://www.hubbellpowersystems.com/catalogs/enclosures/U-104.pdf

-jsw

On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 09:33:39 -0400, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 7/10/2017 9:46 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:

I am moving a shed. Disassembling it, making new foundation,
reassembling it, with additions. Going from 10x10 to 10x16. The
thrills are overwhelming.

But - moving the power. Sooner or later, it has to be done. The
wall the conduit comes up in is going to get moved six feet.
Currently the plastic conduit is buried about four to five inches deep
[Code says 18" for plastic, six inches for Metal.] and snakes through
the area where the future bathroom will add on. Might as well move it
now.
"No problem" - save that I want to run power to/from the shed
from/to the shop. Which sits on the old graveled parking area. I so
do not want to dig through gravel.

The question comes with tapping one way or the other. Let us say
I go with plan A: about 20 feet of trench to the shop, route the old
line to the shed, run conduit up the outside up and through the wall.
Stick a box on the inside, and the shop is powered. Rah. Then cut a
15' trench over to the shed and use the shed's existing (but
relocated) access to reconnect it . (Plan B is connect the shed
first, then the shop)
The main issue is: where do I tap the line to power the shed?
Inside the box inside the shop? On the outside of the shop wall? Or
do I put a tee of some sort underground and mark it well ("Under this
rock is the junction box.")?

Any suggestions? My regular "All things electrical" guy is out to
lunch - er just got married. So he's a little distracted these days.

tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich.
Discussing the decline in the US's tech edge, James Niccol once wrote
"It used to be that the USA was pretty good at producing stuff teenaged
boys could lose a finger or two playing with."

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

You won't regret having the box above ground! I know it's a pain
BUT...it's a good excuse for the use of explosives.


^ 5 !!!!

I would recommend bringing the junction box above ground and then
putting an object over it to hide it..if thats an issue. Little
wishing well, statue of Athena, etc etc. And be SURE To either bring
it up on well wrapped steel pipe, or bring it up on a steel post
(tarred) and then attach PVC conduit to the bottom of it. If you
bring it up on PVC with no other supports..within 5 yrs it will have
cracked in half and need replacing cause the box will be laying at an
angle ...dangling. Unless you cover it with a wishing well, statue of
Athena, etc etc etc

On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 12:29:43 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
news
On 7/10/2017 9:46 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:

I am moving a shed. Disassembling it, making new foundation,
reassembling it, with additions. Going from 10x10 to 10x16. The
thrills are overwhelming.

But - moving the power. Sooner or later, it has to be done. The
wall the conduit comes up in is going to get moved six feet.
Currently the plastic conduit is buried about four to five inches
deep
[Code says 18" for plastic, six inches for Metal.] and snakes
through
the area where the future bathroom will add on. Might as well move
it
now.
"No problem" - save that I want to run power to/from the shed
from/to the shop. Which sits on the old graveled parking area. I
so
do not want to dig through gravel.

The question comes with tapping one way or the other. Let us say
I go with plan A: about 20 feet of trench to the shop, route the
old
line to the shed, run conduit up the outside up and through the
wall.
Stick a box on the inside, and the shop is powered. Rah. Then cut
a
15' trench over to the shed and use the shed's existing (but
relocated) access to reconnect it . (Plan B is connect the shed
first, then the shop)
The main issue is: where do I tap the line to power the shed?
Inside the box inside the shop? On the outside of the shop wall?
Or
do I put a tee of some sort underground and mark it well ("Under
this
rock is the junction box.")?

Any suggestions? My regular "All things electrical" guy is out to
lunch - er just got married. So he's a little distracted these
days.

tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich.
Discussing the decline in the US's tech edge, James Niccol once
wrote
"It used to be that the USA was pretty good at producing stuff
teenaged
boys could lose a finger or two playing with." ---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus
software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

You won't regret having the box above ground! I know it's a pain
BUT...it's a good excuse for the use of explosives.


"Handhole Enclosures" for buried wiring junctions:
http://www.hubbellpowersystems.com/catalogs/enclosures/U-104.pdf

-jsw

Those work..assuming the connections are WELL waterproofed and there
is a good deep layer of gravel under them for drainage. For Pyotr's
application..Id bring the splice above ground..above water level. And
those enclosures are a tidy bit of money. Ive installed quite a number
of them over the years...security, phone/communications etc etc.

Hell...bring up both pieces of conduit..make the splice, seal well
with RTV and GOOD tape, and slide a 3' section of gray PVC pipe and a
end cap over both conduits. Easy to get on, easy to get off and scraps
are easy to find. Hit it with Krylon paint for plastic in ones choice
of colors and voila! $20 at most for a life time of security.

Gunner

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 09:33:39 -0400, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 7/10/2017 9:46 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:

I am moving a shed. Disassembling it, making new foundation,
reassembling it, with additions. Going from 10x10 to 10x16. The
thrills are overwhelming.

But - moving the power. Sooner or later, it has to be done. The
wall the conduit comes up in is going to get moved six feet.
Currently the plastic conduit is buried about four to five inches
deep
[Code says 18" for plastic, six inches for Metal.] and snakes
through
the area where the future bathroom will add on. Might as well
move it
now.
"No problem" - save that I want to run power to/from the shed
from/to the shop. Which sits on the old graveled parking area. I
so
do not want to dig through gravel.

The question comes with tapping one way or the other. Let us say
I go with plan A: about 20 feet of trench to the shop, route the
old
line to the shed, run conduit up the outside up and through the
wall.
Stick a box on the inside, and the shop is powered. Rah. Then
cut a
15' trench over to the shed and use the shed's existing (but
relocated) access to reconnect it . (Plan B is connect the shed
first, then the shop)
The main issue is: where do I tap the line to power the shed?
Inside the box inside the shop? On the outside of the shop wall?
Or
do I put a tee of some sort underground and mark it well ("Under
this
rock is the junction box.")?

Any suggestions? My regular "All things electrical" guy is out to
lunch - er just got married. So he's a little distracted these
days.

tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich.
Discussing the decline in the US's tech edge, James Niccol once
wrote
"It used to be that the USA was pretty good at producing stuff
teenaged
boys could lose a finger or two playing with."

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus
software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


---
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG.
http://www.avg.com

You won't regret having the box above ground! I know it's a pain
BUT...it's a good excuse for the use of explosives.


^ 5 !!!!

I would recommend bringing the junction box above ground and then
putting an object over it to hide it..if thats an issue. Little
wishing well, statue of Athena, etc etc. And be SURE To either
bring
it up on well wrapped steel pipe, or bring it up on a steel post
(tarred) and then attach PVC conduit to the bottom of it. If you
bring it up on PVC with no other supports..within 5 yrs it will have
cracked in half and need replacing cause the box will be laying at
an
angle ...dangling. Unless you cover it with a wishing well, statue
of
Athena, etc etc etc


https://garden.ftempo.com/moai-garden-statues/

On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 12:55:36 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 12:29:43 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
news
On 7/10/2017 9:46 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Or
do I put a tee of some sort underground and mark it well ("Under
this
rock is the junction box.")?

Any suggestions? My regular "All things electrical" guy is out to
lunch - er just got married. So he's a little distracted these
days.


"Handhole Enclosures" for buried wiring junctions:
http://www.hubbellpowersystems.com/c...ures/U-104.pdf

-jsw

Those work..assuming the connections are WELL waterproofed and there
is a good deep layer of gravel under them for drainage. For Pyotr's
application..Id bring the splice above ground..above water level. And
those enclosures are a tidy bit of money. Ive installed quite a number
of them over the years...security, phone/communications etc etc.

Sounds logical to me, too.


Hell...bring up both pieces of conduit..make the splice, seal well
with RTV and GOOD tape, and slide a 3' section of gray PVC pipe and a
end cap over both conduits. Easy to get on, easy to get off and scraps
are easy to find. Hit it with Krylon paint for plastic in ones choice
of colors and voila! $20 at most for a life time of security.

snort Um, a coupla 6" pipes filled with concrete (bollards) -right-
next to it on the driveway side are necessary if you truly want that
"life time of security" for it. Otherwise, the bright paint draws
drunks.

-
If ever the Time should come, when vain and aspiring

Men shall possess the highest Seats in Government,

our Country will stand in Need of its experienced

Patriots to prevent its Ruin.
-- Samuel Adams

Gunner Asch on Fri, 14 Jul 2017 12:46:38 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
You won't regret having the box above ground! I know it's a pain
BUT...it's a good excuse for the use of explosives.

^ 5 !!!!

I would recommend bringing the junction box above ground and then
putting an object over it to hide it..if thats an issue. Little
wishing well, statue of Athena, etc etc. And be SURE To either bring
it up on well wrapped steel pipe, or bring it up on a steel post
(tarred) and then attach PVC conduit to the bottom of it. If you
bring it up on PVC with no other supports..within 5 yrs it will have
cracked in half and need replacing cause the box will be laying at an
angle ...dangling. Unless you cover it with a wishing well, statue of
Athena, etc etc etc

As it is, plan N the umpteenth - will replace the plastic conduit
with metal - that way I "only" have to dig another 2" or so to get it
in code (six inches down) and not have to make it 19" down. Route
that up into the shed via the current access port (up through the
frame), do all the fancy splicing and dicing inside the shed, the out
the other wall, down the outside, six inch trench through the old
gravel parking space/ future "patio/deck" area up the outside wall and
in. Install box on wall - call it Helen.
"Simple" - he says.

But first, time to set the charges and blow this popsicle stand.

tschus
pyotr

(and no, I don't know what that means either.)

p.s. Oh yes, I can cover it up, if need be - with a couple old
fashioned milk cans.
--
pyotr Filipivich
"Bother," said Pooh, "Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and
lock phasers on the Heffalump. Piglet, meet me in transporter
room three. Christopher Robin, you have the bridge."

On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 17:23:31 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Gunner Asch on Fri, 14 Jul 2017 12:46:38 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
You won't regret having the box above ground! I know it's a pain
BUT...it's a good excuse for the use of explosives.

^ 5 !!!!

I would recommend bringing the junction box above ground and then
putting an object over it to hide it..if thats an issue. Little
wishing well, statue of Athena, etc etc. And be SURE To either bring
it up on well wrapped steel pipe, or bring it up on a steel post
(tarred) and then attach PVC conduit to the bottom of it. If you
bring it up on PVC with no other supports..within 5 yrs it will have
cracked in half and need replacing cause the box will be laying at an
angle ...dangling. Unless you cover it with a wishing well, statue of
Athena, etc etc etc

Make that Lucy Lawless as Xena, wot?


As it is, plan N the umpteenth - will replace the plastic conduit
with metal - that way I "only" have to dig another 2" or so to get it
in code (six inches down) and not have to make it 19" down. Route
that up into the shed via the current access port (up through the
frame), do all the fancy splicing and dicing inside the shed, the out
the other wall, down the outside, six inch trench through the old
gravel parking space/ future "patio/deck" area up the outside wall and
in. Install box on wall - call it Helen.
"Simple" - he says.

"Call for Pete from a Mr. Murphy. Pete, please access the white
phone."


But first, time to set the charges and blow this popsicle stand.

Be a good lad and post the video of that, won't you?


p.s. Oh yes, I can cover it up, if need be - with a couple old
fashioned milk cans.

Spot on, old sport.

-
If ever the Time should come, when vain and aspiring

Men shall possess the highest Seats in Government,

our Country will stand in Need of its experienced

Patriots to prevent its Ruin.
-- Samuel Adams

"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
...
Gunner Asch on Fri, 14 Jul 2017
12:46:38 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
You won't regret having the box above ground! I know it's a pain
BUT...it's a good excuse for the use of explosives.

^ 5 !!!!

I would recommend bringing the junction box above ground and then
putting an object over it to hide it..if thats an issue. Little
wishing well, statue of Athena, etc etc. And be SURE To either
bring
it up on well wrapped steel pipe, or bring it up on a steel post
(tarred) and then attach PVC conduit to the bottom of it. If you
bring it up on PVC with no other supports..within 5 yrs it will have
cracked in half and need replacing cause the box will be laying at
an
angle ...dangling. Unless you cover it with a wishing well, statue
of
Athena, etc etc etc

As it is, plan N the umpteenth - will replace the plastic conduit
with metal - that way I "only" have to dig another 2" or so to get
it
in code (six inches down) and not have to make it 19" down. Route
that up into the shed via the current access port (up through the
frame), do all the fancy splicing and dicing inside the shed, the
out
the other wall, down the outside, six inch trench through the old
gravel parking space/ future "patio/deck" area up the outside wall
and
in. Install box on wall - call it Helen.
"Simple" - he says.

But first, time to set the charges and blow this popsicle stand.

tschus
pyotr

(and no, I don't know what that means either.)

p.s. Oh yes, I can cover it up, if need be - with a couple old
fashioned milk cans.
--
pyotr Filipivich
"Bother," said Pooh, "Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and
lock phasers on the Heffalump. Piglet, meet me in transporter
room three. Christopher Robin, you have the bridge."

https://www.amazon.com/Morris-Produc.../dp/B01LVW0U73

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 17:23:31 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Gunner Asch on Fri, 14 Jul 2017
12:46:38 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
You won't regret having the box above ground! I know it's a pain
BUT...it's a good excuse for the use of explosives.

^ 5 !!!!

I would recommend bringing the junction box above ground and then
putting an object over it to hide it..if thats an issue. Little
wishing well, statue of Athena, etc etc. And be SURE To either
bring
it up on well wrapped steel pipe, or bring it up on a steel post
(tarred) and then attach PVC conduit to the bottom of it. If you
bring it up on PVC with no other supports..within 5 yrs it will
have
cracked in half and need replacing cause the box will be laying at
an
angle ...dangling. Unless you cover it with a wishing well, statue
of
Athena, etc etc etc

Make that Lucy Lawless as Xena, wot?


Or a life-sized Callisto that hisses and screams at trespassers.

I wonder if Hudson Leick ever went trick-or-treating in that costume.
Geoffrey Rush did as his Pirates character.

On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 16:31:09 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 12:55:36 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 12:29:43 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
news On 7/10/2017 9:46 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Or
do I put a tee of some sort underground and mark it well ("Under
this
rock is the junction box.")?

Any suggestions? My regular "All things electrical" guy is out to
lunch - er just got married. So he's a little distracted these
days.


"Handhole Enclosures" for buried wiring junctions:
http://www.hubbellpowersystems.com/c...ures/U-104.pdf

-jsw

Those work..assuming the connections are WELL waterproofed and there
is a good deep layer of gravel under them for drainage. For Pyotr's
application..Id bring the splice above ground..above water level. And
those enclosures are a tidy bit of money. Ive installed quite a number
of them over the years...security, phone/communications etc etc.

Sounds logical to me, too.


Hell...bring up both pieces of conduit..make the splice, seal well
with RTV and GOOD tape, and slide a 3' section of gray PVC pipe and a
end cap over both conduits. Easy to get on, easy to get off and scraps
are easy to find. Hit it with Krylon paint for plastic in ones choice
of colors and voila! $20 at most for a life time of security.

snort Um, a coupla 6" pipes filled with concrete (bollards) -right-
next to it on the driveway side are necessary if you truly want that
"life time of security" for it. Otherwise, the bright paint draws
drunks.

I was under the impression that they were going to "come up" in the
yard..not the driveway.



-
If ever the Time should come, when vain and aspiring

Men shall possess the highest Seats in Government,

our Country will stand in Need of its experienced

Patriots to prevent its Ruin.
-- Samuel Adams

---
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On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 18:15:26 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 09:33:39 -0400, Tom Gardner
wrote:

On 7/10/2017 9:46 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:

I am moving a shed. Disassembling it, making new foundation,
reassembling it, with additions. Going from 10x10 to 10x16. The
thrills are overwhelming.

But - moving the power. Sooner or later, it has to be done. The
wall the conduit comes up in is going to get moved six feet.
Currently the plastic conduit is buried about four to five inches
deep
[Code says 18" for plastic, six inches for Metal.] and snakes
through
the area where the future bathroom will add on. Might as well
move it
now.
"No problem" - save that I want to run power to/from the shed
from/to the shop. Which sits on the old graveled parking area. I
so
do not want to dig through gravel.

The question comes with tapping one way or the other. Let us say
I go with plan A: about 20 feet of trench to the shop, route the
old
line to the shed, run conduit up the outside up and through the
wall.
Stick a box on the inside, and the shop is powered. Rah. Then
cut a
15' trench over to the shed and use the shed's existing (but
relocated) access to reconnect it . (Plan B is connect the shed
first, then the shop)
The main issue is: where do I tap the line to power the shed?
Inside the box inside the shop? On the outside of the shop wall?
Or
do I put a tee of some sort underground and mark it well ("Under
this
rock is the junction box.")?

Any suggestions? My regular "All things electrical" guy is out to
lunch - er just got married. So he's a little distracted these
days.

tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr filipivich.
Discussing the decline in the US's tech edge, James Niccol once
wrote
"It used to be that the USA was pretty good at producing stuff
teenaged
boys could lose a finger or two playing with."

---
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You won't regret having the box above ground! I know it's a pain
BUT...it's a good excuse for the use of explosives.


^ 5 !!!!

I would recommend bringing the junction box above ground and then
putting an object over it to hide it..if thats an issue. Little
wishing well, statue of Athena, etc etc. And be SURE To either
bring
it up on well wrapped steel pipe, or bring it up on a steel post
(tarred) and then attach PVC conduit to the bottom of it. If you
bring it up on PVC with no other supports..within 5 yrs it will have
cracked in half and need replacing cause the box will be laying at
an
angle ...dangling. Unless you cover it with a wishing well, statue
of
Athena, etc etc etc


https://garden.ftempo.com/moai-garden-statues/


I LIKE IT!!!


---
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"Jim Wilkins" on Fri, 14 Jul 2017 21:29:22
-0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
.. .
Gunner Asch on Fri, 14 Jul 2017
12:46:38 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
You won't regret having the box above ground! I know it's a pain
BUT...it's a good excuse for the use of explosives.

^ 5 !!!!

I would recommend bringing the junction box above ground and then
putting an object over it to hide it..if thats an issue. Little
wishing well, statue of Athena, etc etc. And be SURE To either
bring
it up on well wrapped steel pipe, or bring it up on a steel post
(tarred) and then attach PVC conduit to the bottom of it. If you
bring it up on PVC with no other supports..within 5 yrs it will have
cracked in half and need replacing cause the box will be laying at
an
angle ...dangling. Unless you cover it with a wishing well, statue
of
Athena, etc etc etc

As it is, plan N the umpteenth - will replace the plastic conduit
with metal - that way I "only" have to dig another 2" or so to get
it
in code (six inches down) and not have to make it 19" down. Route
that up into the shed via the current access port (up through the
frame), do all the fancy splicing and dicing inside the shed, the
out
the other wall, down the outside, six inch trench through the old
gravel parking space/ future "patio/deck" area up the outside wall
and
in. Install box on wall - call it Helen.
"Simple" - he says.

But first, time to set the charges and blow this popsicle stand.

tschus
pyotr

(and no, I don't know what that means either.)

p.s. Oh yes, I can cover it up, if need be - with a couple old
fashioned milk cans.
--
pyotr Filipivich
"Bother," said Pooh, "Eeyore, ready two photon torpedoes and
lock phasers on the Heffalump. Piglet, meet me in transporter
room three. Christopher Robin, you have the bridge."

https://www.amazon.com/Morris-Produc.../dp/B01LVW0U73

Oh that sounds like a most excellent idea.



--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

Larry Jaques on Fri, 14 Jul 2017
18:26:56 -0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:


As it is, plan N the umpteenth - will replace the plastic conduit
with metal - that way I "only" have to dig another 2" or so to get it
in code (six inches down) and not have to make it 19" down. Route
that up into the shed via the current access port (up through the
frame), do all the fancy splicing and dicing inside the shed, the out
the other wall, down the outside, six inch trench through the old
gravel parking space/ future "patio/deck" area up the outside wall and
in. Install box on wall - call it Helen.
"Simple" - he says.

"Call for Pete from a Mr. Murphy. Pete, please access the white
phone."

After that time in Madrid?

Not me, boyo.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 21:53:18 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 17:23:31 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Gunner Asch on Fri, 14 Jul 2017
12:46:38 -0700
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
You won't regret having the box above ground! I know it's a pain
BUT...it's a good excuse for the use of explosives.

^ 5 !!!!

I would recommend bringing the junction box above ground and then
putting an object over it to hide it..if thats an issue. Little
wishing well, statue of Athena, etc etc. And be SURE To either
bring
it up on well wrapped steel pipe, or bring it up on a steel post
(tarred) and then attach PVC conduit to the bottom of it. If you
bring it up on PVC with no other supports..within 5 yrs it will
have
cracked in half and need replacing cause the box will be laying at
an
angle ...dangling. Unless you cover it with a wishing well, statue
of
Athena, etc etc etc

Make that Lucy Lawless as Xena, wot?


Or a life-sized Callisto that hisses and screams at trespassers.

Yesssssssssssssssssss! And tosses cars who try to back into her.


I wonder if Hudson Leick ever went trick-or-treating in that costume.

Hubba hubba!


Geoffrey Rush did as his Pirates character.


-
If ever the Time should come, when vain and aspiring

Men shall possess the highest Seats in Government,

our Country will stand in Need of its experienced

Patriots to prevent its Ruin.
-- Samuel Adams

On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 20:21:02 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 16:31:09 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 12:55:36 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 12:29:43 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Tom Gardner" wrote in message
news On 7/10/2017 9:46 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
Or
do I put a tee of some sort underground and mark it well ("Under
this
rock is the junction box.")?

Any suggestions? My regular "All things electrical" guy is out to
lunch - er just got married. So he's a little distracted these
days.


"Handhole Enclosures" for buried wiring junctions:
http://www.hubbellpowersystems.com/c...ures/U-104.pdf

-jsw

Those work..assuming the connections are WELL waterproofed and there
is a good deep layer of gravel under them for drainage. For Pyotr's
application..Id bring the splice above ground..above water level. And
those enclosures are a tidy bit of money. Ive installed quite a number
of them over the years...security, phone/communications etc etc.

Sounds logical to me, too.


Hell...bring up both pieces of conduit..make the splice, seal well
with RTV and GOOD tape, and slide a 3' section of gray PVC pipe and a
end cap over both conduits. Easy to get on, easy to get off and scraps
are easy to find. Hit it with Krylon paint for plastic in ones choice
of colors and voila! $20 at most for a life time of security.

snort Um, a coupla 6" pipes filled with concrete (bollards) -right-
next to it on the driveway side are necessary if you truly want that
"life time of security" for it. Otherwise, the bright paint draws
drunks.

I was under the impression that they were going to "come up" in the
yard..not the driveway.

I'd think there would be a driveway between the garage and shop, and
that people have no qualms about backing off driveways onto grass.
shrug But, since neither of us has seen Pete's yard...

-
If ever the Time should come, when vain and aspiring

Men shall possess the highest Seats in Government,

our Country will stand in Need of its experienced

Patriots to prevent its Ruin.
-- Samuel Adams

On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 20:22:05 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 18:15:26 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

https://garden.ftempo.com/moai-garden-statues/


I LIKE IT!!!

How many have you ordered for your yard so far?

-
If ever the Time should come, when vain and aspiring

Men shall possess the highest Seats in Government,

our Country will stand in Need of its experienced

Patriots to prevent its Ruin.
-- Samuel Adams

On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 08:19:23 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 20:22:05 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Fri, 14 Jul 2017 18:15:26 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

https://garden.ftempo.com/moai-garden-statues/


I LIKE IT!!!

How many have you ordered for your yard so far?

Hunerd forty eleven.



-
If ever the Time should come, when vain and aspiring

Men shall possess the highest Seats in Government,

our Country will stand in Need of its experienced

Patriots to prevent its Ruin.
-- Samuel Adams

---
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https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Larry Jaques on Sat, 15 Jul 2017
08:17:58 -0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

Hell...bring up both pieces of conduit..make the splice, seal well
with RTV and GOOD tape, and slide a 3' section of gray PVC pipe and a
end cap over both conduits. Easy to get on, easy to get off and scraps
are easy to find. Hit it with Krylon paint for plastic in ones choice
of colors and voila! $20 at most for a life time of security.

snort Um, a coupla 6" pipes filled with concrete (bollards) -right-
next to it on the driveway side are necessary if you truly want that
"life time of security" for it. Otherwise, the bright paint draws
drunks.

I was under the impression that they were going to "come up" in the
yard..not the driveway.

I'd think there would be a driveway between the garage and shop, and
that people have no qualms about backing off driveways onto grass.
shrug But, since neither of us has seen Pete's yard...

The "driveway" - such as it is - in on the front of the house.

I wise I could draw pickytures - but - okay this is close enough"

|
|...[___].......[_] |
:
-------------------+-----{not to scale}
the vertical lines are the fence on the west side, the : marks the
extension to the Ally, which is the -------+

The shed I got built is the [__] on the left side and was build
over what had been the graveled parking area, The shed being rebuilt
is [_] - and as far as I know - was never parking 'cept maybe back in
the last century..
Somewhere near where the second I in the sentence "I wish I
could..." is the origin of the power conduit which goes to the shed on
the right. I'll be moving that trench - not as much as I though, and
then running something from that shed over to the west shed - its
about 17 feet gap.
I'm buying the 100' roll of flex conduit, and any left over goes
to A Good Home.

tschus
pyotr

--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

On Sat, 15 Jul 2017 22:24:09 -0700, pyotr filipivich
wrote:

Larry Jaques on Sat, 15 Jul 2017
08:17:58 -0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

Hell...bring up both pieces of conduit..make the splice, seal well
with RTV and GOOD tape, and slide a 3' section of gray PVC pipe and a
end cap over both conduits. Easy to get on, easy to get off and scraps
are easy to find. Hit it with Krylon paint for plastic in ones choice
of colors and voila! $20 at most for a life time of security.

snort Um, a coupla 6" pipes filled with concrete (bollards) -right-
next to it on the driveway side are necessary if you truly want that
"life time of security" for it. Otherwise, the bright paint draws
drunks.

I was under the impression that they were going to "come up" in the
yard..not the driveway.

I'd think there would be a driveway between the garage and shop, and
that people have no qualms about backing off driveways onto grass.
shrug But, since neither of us has seen Pete's yard...

The "driveway" - such as it is - in on the front of the house.

I wise I could draw pickytures - but - okay this is close enough"

|
|...[___].......[_] |
:
-------------------+-----{not to scale}
the vertical lines are the fence on the west side, the : marks the
extension to the Ally, which is the -------+

The shed I got built is the [__] on the left side and was build
over what had been the graveled parking area, The shed being rebuilt
is [_] - and as far as I know - was never parking 'cept maybe back in
the last century..
Somewhere near where the second I in the sentence "I wish I
could..." is the origin of the power conduit which goes to the shed on
the right. I'll be moving that trench - not as much as I though, and
then running something from that shed over to the west shed - its
about 17 feet gap.

Tips for digging. Water or flood the area well, then wait exactly 36
hours before digging. The water will have had time to soak in and
disperse, preventing mud digging. And it will not have had time to
reharden on the surface. Digging in gravel is a bitch on a good day.

Use a digging bar and the narrowest shovel you have, like a transplant
spade. A pick mattock can dig and shovel the stuff out of the way.
Or, if you have access to a power auger, use it to soften everything
and just shovel it out of the way when the time comes.

I've done a lot of digging in the past ten years, and the water tip is
the best thing I can pass on to my friends. I also recommend that you
bury -anything- a couple inches deeper than a shovel head (9-10", so
dig a foot). It will save heartbreak time and again. I have turned
down literally 100s of repairs on sprinkler systems and phone/cable-
/elec wires buried 6" deep over the years.


I'm buying the 100' roll of flex conduit, and any left over goes
to A Good Home.

Goodonya, Mate.

-
If ever the Time should come, when vain and aspiring

Men shall possess the highest Seats in Government,

our Country will stand in Need of its experienced

Patriots to prevent its Ruin.
-- Samuel Adams

Larry Jaques on Sun, 16 Jul 2017
07:08:47 -0700 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

Somewhere near where the second I in the sentence "I wish I
could..." is the origin of the power conduit which goes to the shed on
the right. I'll be moving that trench - not as much as I though, and
then running something from that shed over to the west shed - its
about 17 feet gap.

Tips for digging. Water or flood the area well, then wait exactly 36
hours before digging. The water will have had time to soak in and
disperse, preventing mud digging. And it will not have had time to
reharden on the surface. Digging in gravel is a bitch on a good day.

Use a digging bar and the narrowest shovel you have, like a transplant
spade.

Got one of those when I realized, using a flat shovel to uncover a
shallow conduit requires way too much work. (as opposed to "just a lot
of work")
Got a mattock, don't want to use that. Considering hiring the job
done. (Greatest labor saving device known to man is "Having someone
else do it.")

Third option - don't try and dig it all at once. Take a break
from doing X to dig a foot or two of trench.

A pick mattock can dig and shovel the stuff out of the way.
Or, if you have access to a power auger, use it to soften everything
and just shovel it out of the way when the time comes.

An idea too. As I look at the space, I realize "I got mucking
large piles of 'stuff' in the way!" Gonna have to move that too. "Who
had this brilliant idea?" Oh yeah, me. and we're doing it in summer,
before the rains return. Right - mustn't forget The Rains.


I've done a lot of digging in the past ten years, and the water tip is
the best thing I can pass on to my friends. I also recommend that you
bury -anything- a couple inches deeper than a shovel head (9-10", so
dig a foot).

That "transplant spade" seems about right. But I have a section
of yard which is going to get lowered, so - more digging.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."