This post is related to the air closer post. Now that the air closer
project is started I realized that I need to figure out how much air
pressure to use. I could do this empirically but this approach may
show that my air closer isn't up to the job. After I have gone through
the the whole process of adapting it to the lathe in question. The max
air pressure I can use is 150 PSI which is dictated by the rotary
union. So, how would I measure the clamping pressure the collet puts
on the part? In production the part is clamped in the collet .050 from
the collet face. The dead length stop controls this distance. But I
think I can remove the stop and grip on something that is about .500
long and still get a good idea of the clamping capabilities of my air
closer. I have the gauges but I'm not sure what would be best to
squeeze on.
Thanks,
Eric

wrote in message
...
This post is related to the air closer post. Now that the air closer
project is started I realized that I need to figure out how much air
pressure to use. I could do this empirically but this approach may
show that my air closer isn't up to the job. After I have gone
through
the the whole process of adapting it to the lathe in question. The
max
air pressure I can use is 150 PSI which is dictated by the rotary
union. So, how would I measure the clamping pressure the collet puts
on the part? In production the part is clamped in the collet .050
from
the collet face. The dead length stop controls this distance. But I
think I can remove the stop and grip on something that is about .500
long and still get a good idea of the clamping capabilities of my
air
closer. I have the gauges but I'm not sure what would be best to
squeeze on.
Thanks,
Eric

How about locking the spindle and measuring the torque when the part
starts to rotate?

wrote:

This post is related to the air closer post. Now that the air closer
project is started I realized that I need to figure out how much air
pressure to use. I could do this empirically but this approach may
show that my air closer isn't up to the job. After I have gone through
the the whole process of adapting it to the lathe in question. The max
air pressure I can use is 150 PSI which is dictated by the rotary
union. So, how would I measure the clamping pressure the collet puts
on the part? In production the part is clamped in the collet .050 from
the collet face. The dead length stop controls this distance. But I
think I can remove the stop and grip on something that is about .500
long and still get a good idea of the clamping capabilities of my air
closer. I have the gauges but I'm not sure what would be best to
squeeze on.
Thanks,
Eric
Measure, or calculate? Assuming a standard collet, like maybe a 5C,
and assuming the closer is an annular piston, it should be easy to calculate
the linear force the piston applies to the collet. Computing the squeezing
force on each third of the collet seems harder, and friction is going to be
a major component. But, assuming half the pulling force is lost to
friction, you ought to be able to compute the inward clamping force on each
jaw. Of course, the pulling force is divided by 3 to each jaw. You just
need to know the angle per side of the collet taper, which you ought to be
able to look up.

Measuring the grip force of a collet seems like something pretty hard to do.

Jon

On Mon, 15 May 2017 23:03:27 -0500, Jon Elson
wrote:

wrote:

This post is related to the air closer post. Now that the air closer
project is started I realized that I need to figure out how much air
pressure to use. I could do this empirically but this approach may
show that my air closer isn't up to the job. After I have gone through
the the whole process of adapting it to the lathe in question. The max
air pressure I can use is 150 PSI which is dictated by the rotary
union. So, how would I measure the clamping pressure the collet puts
on the part? In production the part is clamped in the collet .050 from
the collet face. The dead length stop controls this distance. But I
think I can remove the stop and grip on something that is about .500
long and still get a good idea of the clamping capabilities of my air
closer. I have the gauges but I'm not sure what would be best to
squeeze on.
Thanks,
Eric
Measure, or calculate? Assuming a standard collet, like maybe a 5C,
and assuming the closer is an annular piston, it should be easy to calculate
the linear force the piston applies to the collet. Computing the squeezing
force on each third of the collet seems harder, and friction is going to be
a major component. But, assuming half the pulling force is lost to
friction, you ought to be able to compute the inward clamping force on each
jaw. Of course, the pulling force is divided by 3 to each jaw. You just
need to know the angle per side of the collet taper, which you ought to be
able to look up.

Measuring the grip force of a collet seems like something pretty hard to do.

Jon

With the right gauge, its easy. But..why bother? Start low and simply
turn up the air pressure into it no longer spins in the collet when
cutting the part. Thats how most machine shops do it. Thin and
hollow parts need far LESS pressure than do big gnarly ones. Crush
factor, you know......



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On Mon, 15 May 2017 23:03:27 -0500, Jon Elson
wrote:

wrote:

This post is related to the air closer post. Now that the air closer
project is started I realized that I need to figure out how much air
pressure to use. I could do this empirically but this approach may
show that my air closer isn't up to the job. After I have gone through
the the whole process of adapting it to the lathe in question. The max
air pressure I can use is 150 PSI which is dictated by the rotary
union. So, how would I measure the clamping pressure the collet puts
on the part? In production the part is clamped in the collet .050 from
the collet face. The dead length stop controls this distance. But I
think I can remove the stop and grip on something that is about .500
long and still get a good idea of the clamping capabilities of my air
closer. I have the gauges but I'm not sure what would be best to
squeeze on.
Thanks,
Eric
Measure, or calculate? Assuming a standard collet, like maybe a 5C,
and assuming the closer is an annular piston, it should be easy to calculate
the linear force the piston applies to the collet. Computing the squeezing
force on each third of the collet seems harder, and friction is going to be
a major component. But, assuming half the pulling force is lost to
friction, you ought to be able to compute the inward clamping force on each
jaw. Of course, the pulling force is divided by 3 to each jaw. You just
need to know the angle per side of the collet taper, which you ought to be
able to look up.

Measuring the grip force of a collet seems like something pretty hard to do.

Jon
I really need to measure it. This is because right now I am using the
hydraulic closer in the machine to grip the parts. This closer won't
operate when the spindle is turning and I want to change parts while
the spindle is turning. Furthemore, the hydraulic closer is slower to
open and close the collet than the air closer. So I need to see how
much pressure the collet is now squeezing the part. Then I can see if
the air closer is up to the job.
Eric