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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#41
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Old tractor and battery terminals
On Tue, 2 May 2017 15:53:45 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote: "Jon Elson" wrote in message ... Jim Wilkins wrote: The engineers tried out my new tester on a fuel injection computer and blew it up when the protection Zener overheated and failed after a few load dump cycles. I think that's why they went to side terminal batteries. The Chevy Vega had side terminals in 1976. There was DARN little electronics in that car. There was a module to shut off the air cond when the alternator was not producing, a timer on the rear window defroster, probably a VERY simple electronic ignition (I don't remember points on that one) and the radio. I don't think it even had intermittent wipers. That was it, and it was all analog stuff. Jon The fuel injection computer was for the 76 Seville. Since I worked for a supplier of production test stations I saw developmental items before they reached consumers. It sounds as if you had a really fun job. -- Average # of people killed in mass shooting when stopped by police: 18.25 Average # of people killed when stopped by civilians: 2 Save lives: Keep Civilians Armed! |
#43
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Old tractor and battery terminals
On Tue, 2 May 2017 12:41:35 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote: wrote in message .. . On Tue, 2 May 2017 07:07:02 -0400, "Jim Wilkins" wrote: "Larry Jaques" wrote in message ... That was one of my points. You can tighten the bolt 'til the cows come home but if it isn't squeezing the post, it won't work. But if you have frayed wire at the terminal to cable connection, you're losing current there and the terminal should be replaced. If you can apply a load away from the battery, such as from the frame to the starter or its relay, a voltmeter will reveal any voltage drops across poor terminal connections. Several amps of charging current may be enough, too. A headlight bulb draws around 5 Amps. -jsw When the terminal smokes between it and the post you KNOW where the problem is, and you KNOW the voltage drop will be very substantial. (I'd bet 5 volts on a 6 volt system would be very close) Smoke at the terminal could be from either the post or the cable connection, I've had both go bad. I can't see the battery when turning the key from the driver's seat and need a voltmeter with long enough leads to rest it against the raised hood. Actually I've needed a test lead long enough to reach from the computer under the glovebox nearly to the left headlight, when searching for a bad ground. Extension test leads are no problem, right? That's why I've always loved Fords. Run a remote starter switch (or short a screwdriver) across the start and hot terminals on the solenoid and you're standing right there while the engine cranks over, test equipment in hand. -- Average # of people killed in mass shooting when stopped by police: 18.25 Average # of people killed when stopped by civilians: 2 Save lives: Keep Civilians Armed! |
#44
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Old tractor and battery terminals
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#45
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Old tractor and battery terminals
On 3 May 2017 00:03:54 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote: On 2017-05-01, wrote: [ ... ] New battery clamps or lead foil shims. Even other metal shims may work, but lead foil works best. I have in the past, while working where you could not easily get ANY parts, pounded out a lead weight into a small sheet to shim a loose battery clamp. Once, I happened to be at a local drive-in restaurant at the same time as some co-workers who could not start their car. With the hood open, it was obvious that it was the battery clamp and the terminal in the battery itself. As a quick work-around, I drove a fat wood screw into the line between the clamp and the terminal, with the advice to get it replaced soon. Great minds think alike. BTDT on a dark road once. -- Average # of people killed in mass shooting when stopped by police: 18.25 Average # of people killed when stopped by civilians: 2 Save lives: Keep Civilians Armed! |
#46
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Old tractor and battery terminals
On Tue, 2 May 2017 07:18:31 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
On Tuesday, May 2, 2017 at 12:41:42 AM UTC-4, Larry Jaques wrote: On Mon, 01 May 2017 17:57:17 -0500, Tim Wescott wrote: On Mon, 01 May 2017 14:49:33 -0700, etpm wrote: On Mon, 1 May 2017 05:21:51 -0700 (PDT), wrote: Speaking of old tractors, I can't get a good contact to the battery terminal on my old Ferguson. I cleaned the post and connector off with a (3M) green scrubbie, but when I clamp it together and push the starter button I get a puff of smoke from the terminal as I vaporize some small section of lead where the terminal connector meet. Is there some goo or other tricks I can use? George H. I just went through this George. Cleaned battery clamp with the wire brush made for this. No go. Got out my pocket and went at the inside of clamp. There was a very hard oxide coating on the inside of the clamp. It shines up nice with a wire brush but doesn't conduct electricity worth a damn. After scraping this hard coating off, and you can certainly tell it's hard because it almost chips off, I could feel the knife blade dig into soft lead. After scraping the inside it was nice and bright and the old tractor spun right over. With a 6 volt battery. Probably the same as your old beast. Eric I've had that happen. Yup. Scrape it out with a pocket knife. Someone mentioned a proper tapered reamer to do this. Maybe it's good if you live in the city... C'mon, guys. Keep the taper. http://tinyurl.com/lwhch7l My old one is from SnapOn. (Someone gave it to me. I don't have the bag of hundreds for one.) -- Average # of people killed in mass shooting when stopped by police: 18.25 Average # of people killed when stopped by civilians: 2 Save lives: Keep Civilians Armed! Guys... Jim, Tim, Dan, Clare, Larry, Eric.. and whomever I missed. Thanks for all the ideas! I'm going to try scrapping (with a knife) the inside of the terminal, and also stop by the auto store and pick up some new terminals. So a related story. My pick up was having battery issues. I couldn't figure out what it was. (new alternator/ battery.. old truck) I have an electric winch which raises/ lowers the plow on the front. Using the winch would often cause the battery light to turn on, and the battery voltage (as read by instrument cluster) to drop. I finally had my son engage the winch while I measured the voltage right at the terminals. No drop! Turns out someone (it could have been me or the previous owner) had put a washer between the lead terminal and the copper ring that was bonded to the wire. Dang washer had corroded over time, and now had ~1 ohm of resistance. That'll do 'er. g I always checked the fuse box for tinfoil or nails before buying a new used vehicle, too. My time with a shadetree mechanic while going to UTI was of immense value. I found out how NOT to do 101+ things. I saw him rebuilding an engine once. He dipped the entire main bearing in pure STP. When I told him it wasn't oil, that he had to mix it with oil (or use assembly grease) and that he shouldn't put anything behind the bearing, he scoffed and continued on the way he had. The poor buyer got 1000 miles into his cross-country trip before the main bearing spun. -- Average # of people killed in mass shooting when stopped by police: 18.25 Average # of people killed when stopped by civilians: 2 Save lives: Keep Civilians Armed! |
#47
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Old tractor and battery terminals
On Wed, 03 May 2017 05:20:42 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote: On 2 May 2017 23:39:32 GMT, "DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2017-05-02, wrote: [ ... ] For thise who have never seen an early Mini up close, the battery was in the trunk opposite the fuel tank and was originally covered with a heany cardboard cover. The battery connection was a tapered cap that fit down over the battery post and was held down with basically a #8 sheet metal screw threaded into the top of the battery post. Hmm ... my first MGA 1500 used two 6V batteries, behind the two seats on either side of the driveshaft. It was accessed under a removable panel behind the seats. Anyway -- it had four of those connector/screw combinations. One for the cable to the engine compartment, one for the ground cable to the chassis, and two on the vary short cable which looped over the driveshaft. I never had problems with the connectors there. My sister's 1973 BLMC MBG-GT (say that 3 times really fast) had the same twin 6v underseat config and had nothing but trouble with them for 35 years. I could never understand the draw of Prince of Darkness-equipped vehicles, myself. Nuttin' but trubble. Chrome bumber Bs had the dual/split battery configuration. Rubber-bumper('74 and newer?) Bs had a single 12 volt battery. |
#48
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Old tractor and battery terminals
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#49
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Old tractor and battery terminals
On Wed, 03 May 2017 05:29:21 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote: On 3 May 2017 00:03:54 GMT, "DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2017-05-01, wrote: [ ... ] New battery clamps or lead foil shims. Even other metal shims may work, but lead foil works best. I have in the past, while working where you could not easily get ANY parts, pounded out a lead weight into a small sheet to shim a loose battery clamp. Once, I happened to be at a local drive-in restaurant at the same time as some co-workers who could not start their car. With the hood open, it was obvious that it was the battery clamp and the terminal in the battery itself. As a quick work-around, I drove a fat wood screw into the line between the clamp and the terminal, with the advice to get it replaced soon. Great minds think alike. BTDT on a dark road once. I've had cars come in with several screws and nails corroded off in the clamp. |
#50
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Old tractor and battery terminals
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#51
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Old tractor and battery terminals
On Tue, 02 May 2017 20:27:44 -0400, wrote:
On Tue, 2 May 2017 17:01:05 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Tuesday, May 2, 2017 at 5:35:05 PM UTC-4, Clare wrote: On Tue, 2 May 2017 12:07:51 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Tuesday, May 2, 2017 at 2:54:16 PM UTC-4, Jon Elson wrote: Jim Wilkins wrote: The engineers tried out my new tester on a fuel injection computer and blew it up when the protection Zener overheated and failed after a few load dump cycles. I think that's why they went to side terminal batteries. The Chevy Vega had side terminals in 1976. There was DARN little electronics in that car. There was a module to shut off the air cond when the alternator was not producing, a timer on the rear window defroster, probably a VERY simple electronic ignition (I don't remember points on that one) and the radio. I don't think it even had intermittent wipers. That was it, and it was all analog stuff. Jon Well, having the battery in the trunk seemed to solve a lot of problems in my 1958 Alfa Romeo. g It was nice and clean back there, and cool. However, the cable that ran forward used a lot of copper. As for electronics, I did have to replace a couple of vacuum tubes in the Blaupunkt radio... There is a lot of virtue in simplicity. The battery in the trunk of my '61 Mini almost resulted in the destruction of the car - and the crappy "cap" type battery connector was a royal pain. A product of Britain's Prince of Darkness, eh? [Bumper sticker seen on Mini in the early '60s: "Why to the Brits drink warm beer? Because they have Lucas refrigerators."] They drink their beer at room temperature, and anyone who's lived in Britain knows THAT isn't particularly "warm". Lucas makes heaters too, huh? For thise who have never seen an early Mini up close, the battery was in the trunk opposite the fuel tank and was originally covered with a heany cardboard cover. The battery connection was a tapered cap that fit down over the battery post and was held down with basically a #8 sheet metal screw threaded into the top of the battery post. The connection tended to get "flakey" to the point that when one pressed on the rubber covered button on the gigh current switch between the seats, sometimes it would spark and the engine would not crank. Simplyb having someone swat the rear quarter panel, kick the rear tire, or slam the door with the button pressed usually caused the connection to re-establish itself, and the critter would crank and start. By the time I aquired this particular car it was10 years old and had 196000 miles of rural mail delivery under it's belt - and that battery cover was long gone. It had also developed a prodigious appetete for engine oil, so there was generally a few quarts of Nugold SAE50 riding along in the trunk.One day with eigh of us young folks crammed in heading to the local stock car races 2 of those cans managed to short out across the battery, burning a hole in the cans and lighting the ensuing small stream of oil on fire. When we noticed the smoke curling up from around the back seat, I shut off the car and we were all out before it came to a full stop, and one of my friends had the trunk open and tossed the burning oil can onto the ground beside the car. when the fire was out and the smoke dissipated, we all jumped back in and went on our way. BMC owners always have fun tales to tell. I'll bet Don has some from his MGA experience. Mine, with my MG Midget Mk III (1275 cc), came one night in December when I was driving from Michigan to NJ in freezing rain, and the left-side parking light cover filled with salt water because the gasket leaked; the wiring shorted out with no fuses at all in the system, burning the insulation off of the wiring harness under the dash and filling the cockpit with smoke; and then I had to drive 20 miles down the Ohio Turnkike with a flashlight instead of headlights. d8-) |
#52
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Old tractor and battery terminals
"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
... On Tue, 2 May 2017 13:21:05 -0400, "Jim Wilkins" wrote: ... The engineers tried out my new tester on a fuel injection computer and blew it up when the protection Zener overheated and failed after a few load dump cycles. I think that's why they went to side terminal batteries. ? What's the difference in transient voltage handling between top and side term batts? I thought the difference was merely physical config. Bummer on the quick trashing of your tester. The fuel injection computer was destroyed, not my tester. The solder holding a thick solid wire to the top of the stud-mount clamp Zener melted and the wire popped off. The next high-voltage discharge wrecked the module before I could run around the engineers and stop it. Do side terminals corrode? -jsw |
#53
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Old tractor and battery terminals
On Wed, 03 May 2017 08:13:04 -0700, wrote:
On Tue, 02 May 2017 20:27:44 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 2 May 2017 17:01:05 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Tuesday, May 2, 2017 at 5:35:05 PM UTC-4, Clare wrote: On Tue, 2 May 2017 12:07:51 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Tuesday, May 2, 2017 at 2:54:16 PM UTC-4, Jon Elson wrote: Jim Wilkins wrote: The engineers tried out my new tester on a fuel injection computer and blew it up when the protection Zener overheated and failed after a few load dump cycles. I think that's why they went to side terminal batteries. The Chevy Vega had side terminals in 1976. There was DARN little electronics in that car. There was a module to shut off the air cond when the alternator was not producing, a timer on the rear window defroster, probably a VERY simple electronic ignition (I don't remember points on that one) and the radio. I don't think it even had intermittent wipers. That was it, and it was all analog stuff. Jon Well, having the battery in the trunk seemed to solve a lot of problems in my 1958 Alfa Romeo. g It was nice and clean back there, and cool. However, the cable that ran forward used a lot of copper. As for electronics, I did have to replace a couple of vacuum tubes in the Blaupunkt radio... There is a lot of virtue in simplicity. The battery in the trunk of my '61 Mini almost resulted in the destruction of the car - and the crappy "cap" type battery connector was a royal pain. A product of Britain's Prince of Darkness, eh? [Bumper sticker seen on Mini in the early '60s: "Why to the Brits drink warm beer? Because they have Lucas refrigerators."] They drink their beer at room temperature, and anyone who's lived in Britain knows THAT isn't particularly "warm". Lucas makes heaters too, huh? I hear they gave up on vacuums because they found it was the only thing they could design that reallt didn't suck - - For thise who have never seen an early Mini up close, the battery was in the trunk opposite the fuel tank and was originally covered with a heany cardboard cover. The battery connection was a tapered cap that fit down over the battery post and was held down with basically a #8 sheet metal screw threaded into the top of the battery post. The connection tended to get "flakey" to the point that when one pressed on the rubber covered button on the gigh current switch between the seats, sometimes it would spark and the engine would not crank. Simplyb having someone swat the rear quarter panel, kick the rear tire, or slam the door with the button pressed usually caused the connection to re-establish itself, and the critter would crank and start. By the time I aquired this particular car it was10 years old and had 196000 miles of rural mail delivery under it's belt - and that battery cover was long gone. It had also developed a prodigious appetete for engine oil, so there was generally a few quarts of Nugold SAE50 riding along in the trunk.One day with eigh of us young folks crammed in heading to the local stock car races 2 of those cans managed to short out across the battery, burning a hole in the cans and lighting the ensuing small stream of oil on fire. When we noticed the smoke curling up from around the back seat, I shut off the car and we were all out before it came to a full stop, and one of my friends had the trunk open and tossed the burning oil can onto the ground beside the car. when the fire was out and the smoke dissipated, we all jumped back in and went on our way. BMC owners always have fun tales to tell. I'll bet Don has some from his MGA experience. Mine, with my MG Midget Mk III (1275 cc), came one night in December when I was driving from Michigan to NJ in freezing rain, and the left-side parking light cover filled with salt water because the gasket leaked; the wiring shorted out with no fuses at all in the system, burning the insulation off of the wiring harness under the dash and filling the cockpit with smoke; and then I had to drive 20 miles down the Ohio Turnkike with a flashlight instead of headlights. d8-) |
#54
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Old tractor and battery terminals
On Wed, 3 May 2017 12:25:05 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote: "Larry Jaques" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 2 May 2017 13:21:05 -0400, "Jim Wilkins" wrote: ... The engineers tried out my new tester on a fuel injection computer and blew it up when the protection Zener overheated and failed after a few load dump cycles. I think that's why they went to side terminal batteries. ? What's the difference in transient voltage handling between top and side term batts? I thought the difference was merely physical config. Bummer on the quick trashing of your tester. The fuel injection computer was destroyed, not my tester. The solder holding a thick solid wire to the top of the stud-mount clamp Zener melted and the wire popped off. The next high-voltage discharge wrecked the module before I could run around the engineers and stop it. Do side terminals corrode? -jsw Yes. Just not as quickly and as seriously. |
#55
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Old tractor and battery terminals
On Wed, 03 May 2017 10:16:03 -0400, wrote:
On Wed, 03 May 2017 05:20:42 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote: On 2 May 2017 23:39:32 GMT, "DoN. Nichols" wrote: On 2017-05-02, wrote: [ ... ] For thise who have never seen an early Mini up close, the battery was in the trunk opposite the fuel tank and was originally covered with a heany cardboard cover. The battery connection was a tapered cap that fit down over the battery post and was held down with basically a #8 sheet metal screw threaded into the top of the battery post. Hmm ... my first MGA 1500 used two 6V batteries, behind the two seats on either side of the driveshaft. It was accessed under a removable panel behind the seats. Anyway -- it had four of those connector/screw combinations. One for the cable to the engine compartment, one for the ground cable to the chassis, and two on the vary short cable which looped over the driveshaft. I never had problems with the connectors there. My sister's 1973 BLMC MBG-GT (say that 3 times really fast) had the same twin 6v underseat config and had nothing but trouble with them for 35 years. I could never understand the draw of Prince of Darkness-equipped vehicles, myself. Nuttin' but trubble. Chrome bumber Bs had the dual/split battery configuration. Rubber-bumper('74 and newer?) Bs had a single 12 volt battery. Enlightenment, at last! -- Average # of people killed in mass shooting when stopped by police: 18.25 Average # of people killed when stopped by civilians: 2 Save lives: Keep Civilians Armed! |
#56
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Old tractor and battery terminals
On Wed, 3 May 2017 12:25:05 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote: "Larry Jaques" wrote in message .. . On Tue, 2 May 2017 13:21:05 -0400, "Jim Wilkins" wrote: ... The engineers tried out my new tester on a fuel injection computer and blew it up when the protection Zener overheated and failed after a few load dump cycles. I think that's why they went to side terminal batteries. ? What's the difference in transient voltage handling between top and side term batts? I thought the difference was merely physical config. Bummer on the quick trashing of your tester. The fuel injection computer was destroyed, not my tester. Oh, read that thinking the tester went tits-up. The solder holding a thick solid wire to the top of the stud-mount clamp Zener melted and the wire popped off. The next high-voltage discharge wrecked the module before I could run around the engineers and stop it. Oh, well. Who let them loose around a power switch, anyway? Do side terminals corrode? Yes, but they do so a bit less than the top post style. The real fun is when someone uses an -open- end wrench on the 5/16" bolt head. Luckily, most of the terminal bolts are made with large round heads which permit channel lock pliers to be used on them. Insulated, please. -- Average # of people killed in mass shooting when stopped by police: 18.25 Average # of people killed when stopped by civilians: 2 Save lives: Keep Civilians Armed! |
#57
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Old tractor and battery terminals
On Wed, 03 May 2017 10:17:46 -0400, wrote:
On Wed, 03 May 2017 05:27:51 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote: On Tue, 02 May 2017 20:25:37 -0400, wrote: From what I remenber the 9n is similar.From my recollection there is a way tp activate the switch directly instead of through the mechanical remote control. There is no solenoid, and the key doesn't activate the starter. Unless one adds one (should be fairly simple and inexpensive) to aid in troubleshooting the ancient beasties. Just more to go wrong. A dead simple mechanical switch is the easiest to troubleshoot. OK, the manual I DLed didn't have a pic of the starter switch, but Amazon did. It's the old floor mounted type of momentary switch like we used to have for headlight dimming (which were spdt) in ye olden days. Were it my tractor, I'd think about adding a solenoid and remote switch for it for underhood work. $20-30 and an hour of time seems well worth it. Solenoids are an RCH from "dead simple", too. Heck, you can probably draw an entire tractor schematic in 4 minutes on a 3x5" card. -- Average # of people killed in mass shooting when stopped by police: 18.25 Average # of people killed when stopped by civilians: 2 Save lives: Keep Civilians Armed! |
#58
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Old tractor and battery terminals
On 2017-05-03, wrote:
BMC owners always have fun tales to tell. I'll bet Don has some from his MGA experience. Some -- but the worst was when I installed a current shunt in series with the battery to the fuse block. There was an easy place to mount it -- a shelf on the right side just in front of the firewall. (I was using some aircraft instruments as displays, plus a 24-hour wind-up aircraft clock on a secondary panel -- removable so a passenger could fit in the seat. It was fine until I hit a vigorous bump, and the bonnet (US hood) prop rod fell down and shorted the load side of the shunt to ground. That stopped the car rather rapidly. :-) (No, I can't blame Lucas for this, it was my own modification which did it.) When I rebuilt it, using a short coil of 16 Ga wire as a shunt (it wasn't calibrated, anyway -- just a rough reading of load with and without headlights and heater fan.) I added a Plexiglass shield to prevent a repeat of the short. And the one electrical part which did give regular problems was *not* branded "Lucas" -- but rather "SU". This was the electric fuel pump, which slowly burned the points of the toggle linkage to the solenoid, and every so often required adjustment. When the fuel pump stopped, the first thing to do was to reach up to the ignition switch and switch it off and on several times to pump the float bowls full again. Then pull over to the side of the road, remove the battery cover behind the two seats, get one half of the jack crank rod for the "King Dick" screw jack, and get back in. Start up, and whenever the fuel flow stopped, pick up the rod and bang it down on the side of the fuel pump (not sure what a driver in the RHD UK versions would do, as he was sitting almost on top of it), and it would go "tic, tic, tic, tic, ..." and work again for a while. Once I got to my destination (usually work) I would climb under the right side near the rear tire, reach in and unscrew the nut connecting the wire, remove the nut under that, and pull off the insulating cap. Then I would remove two screws, and turn the toggle points assembly a few turns clockwise, and re-assemble it, and it would be fine for a few months. (Yes, I always had the needed tools for the task at hand. :-) Now -- a friend also had a MGA-1600, and shortly after the two of us had done a full rebuild on our fuel pumps (new diaphragm and toggle points), he (while working night shift, so he had free time in the day) pulled into the dealer to pick up some parts for his MGA. As he pulled in, he saw someone with his head under the right rear side and thought "It looks like he is working on his fuel pump -- no just because the two of us just did it does not mean that he is." Anyway, he went in, got the parts he needed, and spent some time chatting with the parts guy. While doing that, the pair of legs he had seen came in, said "I need a fuel pump for a MGA -- Here's my core charge!" and thunked it down on the counter. As the parts guy turned to go get one, my friend said "What is wrong with it? A friend and I both just rebuilt ours." The parts guy paused to hear the answer, and the pair of legs said: "Well ... I don't know much about these cars, but a friend does, and he said it was the fuel pump." "But what was it doing?" "Well, when I turn on the ignition, it goes "Tic, Tic, Tic, Tic ..." It took my friend, and the parts guy about five minutes to stop laughing, and explain to him that yes, it was the fuel pump he heard, but that was the sound of a perfectly healthy one. :-) Mine, with my MG Midget Mk III (1275 cc), came one night in December when I was driving from Michigan to NJ in freezing rain, and the left-side parking light cover filled with salt water because the gasket leaked; the wiring shorted out with no fuses at all in the system, burning the insulation off of the wiring harness under the dash and filling the cockpit with smoke; and then I had to drive 20 miles down the Ohio Turnkike with a flashlight instead of headlights. d8-) Now that was spectacular. For whatever reason, the parking light covers never leaked on either my MGA 1500 or the MGA 1600 Mk-II. The rear light coves for the 1600 Mk-II were the same as on a Midget, I think. Long rectangle ended by a half-circle at each end, mounted horizontally on the MGA and vertically oh the Midget. That also remained watertight, as did the older light covers on the MGA 1500. However, I did have a problem during a driving rain. (Summer thunderstorm.) I started out from work in a nice dry summer day, so the top (UK hood) was down, and a heavy rainstorm came up As long as I kept going at speed, only my hair was getting wet, and I had a spare wiper blade to clean sprinkles off the inside surface of the windscreen (windshield). Suddenly, the light came on to indicate no charging current. I pulled over under an overpass, got out, and checked. I had expected a broken fan belt, but what had happened was the belt pulley on the crankshaft had split into its two disc components and was no longer driving the belt. The temperature went up a bit, but with all the water splashing on the radiator, it was not overheating -- the thermo-siphon was doing its job, so I continued to home. (It was a MBG 1800cc engine by then, but with a MGA pulley to keep it just a little shorter, and was running with the MGA's SU carbs and intake manifold, as well as the water pump, starter motor, and flywheel to make things fit. A friend helped me pick up a replacement pulley, and it was working again. So -- really no problems with Lucas electrics for me, just the SU electric fuel pump. Enjoy, DoN. -- Remove oil spill source from e-mail Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#59
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Old tractor and battery terminals
On 4 May 2017 02:11:34 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote: A friend helped me pick up a replacement pulley, and it was working again. So -- really no problems with Lucas electrics for me, just the SU electric fuel pump. Enjoy, DoN. The "Ticky-Ticky on my mini used to refuse to start occaisionally too - I'd give it a rap and it would generally go for another month.The one on the '53 TD was misbehaving too the other year - we got a solid state conversion kit for it - no more points!!!! The electrical problems on my Vauxhaul Firenza 2300 were not lucas problems either - that beasty had AC DElco electrics and I lost the regulator coming into Halifax from Sydney, after having replaced the timing belt on the side of the road. Not sure who made the electrics on the Mystique, but the electrical connections were the biggest problem on that car -other than rust. Nothing electrical could be as ignorant as Ducellier or Paris Rhone thogh - Peugeot and Fiat. |
#60
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Old tractor and battery terminals
Larry Jaques writes:
Yeah, headlights were an easy test for a charging system, too. Start it up, remove a battery cable, then turn on the brights. The engine will die if the charging system isn't working properly. Please do not do this on any system with any electronics. Google up "load dump" and see why. -- A host is a host from coast to & no one will talk to a host that's close.......................... Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433 |
#61
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Old tractor and battery terminals
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
... On 2017-05-03, wrote: BMC owners always have fun tales to tell. I'll bet Don has some from his MGA experience. ...When I rebuilt it, using a short coil of 16 Ga wire as a shunt (it wasn't calibrated, anyway -- just a rough reading of load with and without headlights and heater fan.) I added a Plexiglass shield to prevent a repeat of the short. ... Constantan wire for stable current shunts can be salvaged from type J, T and E thermocouples. |
#62
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Old tractor and battery terminals
"David Lesher" wrote in message
news Larry Jaques writes: Yeah, headlights were an easy test for a charging system, too. Start it up, remove a battery cable, then turn on the brights. The engine will die if the charging system isn't working properly. Please do not do this on any system with any electronics. Google up "load dump" and see why. http://www2.advantech.com.tw/eservic...plications.pdf DC clamp-on ammeters are cheaper than replacing the vehicle electronics. This one can handle from milliAmp parasitic drain to 100A charging current, but not starter current, even on my riding mower. The 400A DC clamp-on probe I use to measure that is no longer available. https://www.amazon.com/Uni-T-B4Q094-.../dp/B00O1Q2HOQ These can show that the charging system is alive, at least: http://www.stuttgartperformanceengin...veammater.html -jsw |
#63
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Old tractor and battery terminals
On Thu, 4 May 2017 07:34:13 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote: "David Lesher" wrote in message news Larry Jaques writes: Yeah, headlights were an easy test for a charging system, too. Start it up, remove a battery cable, then turn on the brights. The engine will die if the charging system isn't working properly. Please do not do this on any system with any electronics. Google up "load dump" and see why. http://www2.advantech.com.tw/eservic...plications.pdf DC clamp-on ammeters are cheaper than replacing the vehicle electronics. This one can handle from milliAmp parasitic drain to 100A charging current, but not starter current, even on my riding mower. The 400A DC clamp-on probe I use to measure that is no longer available. https://www.amazon.com/Uni-T-B4Q094-.../dp/B00O1Q2HOQ These can show that the charging system is alive, at least: http://www.stuttgartperformanceengin...veammater.html -jsw A very sizeable percentage odf staters today draw less than 100 amps (permanent magnet geared starters aften draw 75 amps or less) |
#64
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Old tractor and battery terminals
On 2017-05-04, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message ... On 2017-05-03, wrote: BMC owners always have fun tales to tell. I'll bet Don has some from his MGA experience. ...When I rebuilt it, using a short coil of 16 Ga wire as a shunt (it wasn't calibrated, anyway -- just a rough reading of load with and without headlights and heater fan.) I added a Plexiglass shield to prevent a repeat of the short. ... Constantan wire for stable current shunts can be salvaged from type J, T and E thermocouples. Given the fact that the indicator I used was the vertical needle on an aircraft instrument landing cross-needle indicator, with no real calibrated scale, I wasn't that worried about stability. about 8" of 16 Ga tinned stranded copper wire was sufficient for my purposes. :-) Reasonable deflection at normal loads. But I will remember that for future use. Thanks. Enjoy, DoN. -- Remove oil spill source from e-mail Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#65
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Old tractor and battery terminals
On Tue, 02 May 2017 05:15:43 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote: On Tue, 2 May 2017 07:07:02 -0400, "Jim Wilkins" wrote: "Larry Jaques" wrote in message . .. That was one of my points. You can tighten the bolt 'til the cows come home but if it isn't squeezing the post, it won't work. But if you have frayed wire at the terminal to cable connection, you're losing current there and the terminal should be replaced. If you can apply a load away from the battery, such as from the frame to the starter or its relay, a voltmeter will reveal any voltage drops across poor terminal connections. Several amps of charging current may be enough, too. A headlight bulb draws around 5 Amps. Yeah, headlights were an easy test for a charging system, too. Start it up, remove a battery cable, then turn on the brights. The engine will die if the charging system isn't working properly. Its also a good way to kill an alternator on some vehicles. --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
#66
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Old tractor and battery terminals
On Tue, 02 May 2017 15:35:20 -0700, wrote:
On Tue, 02 May 2017 17:35:03 -0400, wrote: On Tue, 2 May 2017 12:07:51 -0700 (PDT), wrote: On Tuesday, May 2, 2017 at 2:54:16 PM UTC-4, Jon Elson wrote: Jim Wilkins wrote: The engineers tried out my new tester on a fuel injection computer and blew it up when the protection Zener overheated and failed after a few load dump cycles. I think that's why they went to side terminal batteries. The Chevy Vega had side terminals in 1976. There was DARN little electronics in that car. There was a module to shut off the air cond when the alternator was not producing, a timer on the rear window defroster, probably a VERY simple electronic ignition (I don't remember points on that one) and the radio. I don't think it even had intermittent wipers. That was it, and it was all analog stuff. Jon Well, having the battery in the trunk seemed to solve a lot of problems in my 1958 Alfa Romeo. g It was nice and clean back there, and cool. However, the cable that ran forward used a lot of copper. As for electronics, I did have to replace a couple of vacuum tubes in the Blaupunkt radio... There is a lot of virtue in simplicity. The battery in the trunk of my '61 Mini almost resulted in the destruction of the car - and the crappy "cap" type battery connector was a royal pain. For thise who have never seen an early Mini up close, the battery was in the trunk opposite the fuel tank and was originally covered with a heany cardboard cover. The battery connection was a tapered cap that fit down over the battery post and was held down with basically a #8 sheet metal screw threaded into the top of the battery post. The connection tended to get "flakey" to the point that when one pressed on the rubber covered button on the gigh current switch between the seats, sometimes it would spark and the engine would not crank. Simplyb having someone swat the rear quarter panel, kick the rear tire, or slam the door with the button pressed usually caused the connection to re-establish itself, and the critter would crank and start. By the time I aquired this particular car it was10 years old and had 196000 miles of rural mail delivery under it's belt - and that battery cover was long gone. It had also developed a prodigious appetete for engine oil, so there was generally a few quarts of Nugold SAE50 riding along in the trunk.One day with eigh of us young folks crammed in heading to the local stock car races 2 of those cans managed to short out across the battery, burning a hole in the cans and lighting the ensuing small stream of oil on fire. When we noticed the smoke curling up from around the back seat, I shut off the car and we were all out before it came to a full stop, and one of my friends had the trunk open and tossed the burning oil can onto the ground beside the car. when the fire was out and the smoke dissipated, we all jumped back in and went on our way. I had a VW bug, several actually, but one of the first had the back seat short against the battery terminals. I had no idea that this could be a problem until someone was sitting in the back seat and complained of a burning smell and then said the seat was getting hot. I pulled over and pulled the seat out. There was some sort of cover missing and the seat coils were making contact with the battery posts as the car bounced. Didn't affect the running of the car though. I think it was a magazine or some newspaper I put over the battery as a temporary fix. Then we piled back in, cracked another beer, and sped down the dirt road. That was an interesting day. Eric Did just that with my first "serious" girlfriend. She was 5'10", I was 6'2" and we weighed combined..right at 350 lbs. She was straddling me and as we did the "wild bunny thing"...our weight caused the seat springs to contact the hot terminal under the passenger rear seat. She is off in another world and Ive joined her..and suddenly my ass is getting hotter and hotter...trying to snap her back into this one, and recognize we are perched over a burning backseat...fun to laugh at now..but then...no so much fun. Ripped out the backseat and threw it into a snow bank where it blazed quite nicely. Had to go to a wrecking yard to get another rear seat. Color didnt match....shrug --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
#67
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Old tractor and battery terminals
On Thu, 4 May 2017 04:18:14 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
wrote: Larry Jaques writes: Yeah, headlights were an easy test for a charging system, too. Start it up, remove a battery cable, then turn on the brights. The engine will die if the charging system isn't working properly. Please do not do this on any system with any electronics. Google up "load dump" and see why. ^5!! --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus |
#68
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Old tractor and battery terminals
"DoN. Nichols" writes:
Some -- but the worst was when I installed a current shunt in series with the battery to the fuse block. There was an easy place to mount it -- a shelf on the right side just in front of the firewall. (I was using some aircraft instruments as displays, plus a 24-hour wind-up aircraft clock on a secondary panel -- removable so a passenger could fit in the seat. It was fine until I hit a vigorous bump, and the bonnet (US hood) prop rod fell down and shorted the load side of the shunt to ground. That stopped the car rather rapidly. :-) That's your fault, Don. You should have had the shunt in the ground side. As for SU fuel pumps, they were designed to save fuel. The car on the side of theroad uses none.... -- A host is a host from coast to & no one will talk to a host that's close.......................... Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433 is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433 |
#69
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Old tractor and battery terminals
On 2017-05-08, David Lesher wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" writes: Some -- but the worst was when I installed a current shunt in series with the battery to the fuse block. There was an easy place to mount it -- a shelf on the right side just in front of the firewall. (I was using some aircraft instruments as displays, plus a 24-hour wind-up aircraft clock on a secondary panel -- removable so a passenger could fit in the seat. It was fine until I hit a vigorous bump, and the bonnet (US hood) prop rod fell down and shorted the load side of the shunt to ground. That stopped the car rather rapidly. :-) That's your fault, Don. You should have had the shunt in the ground side. Well ... the ground connection was from the battery to the chassis, and included the starter current. What I was metering were the things controlled by instrument panel switches (ignition -- *not* starter current, headlamps, instrument panel lamps, turn signals, and not much else. Those were grounded everywhere to the nearest chassis point, an d hard to put the shunt in that side without including the starter motor. So -- it was more my fault for not protecting the shunt from moving parts of the car (e.g. the bonnet prop rod. :-) As for SU fuel pumps, they were designed to save fuel. The car on the side of theroad uses none.... They do that, for sure. :-) Enjoy, DoN. -- Remove oil spill source from e-mail Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564 (too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html --- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero --- |
#70
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Old tractor and battery terminals
"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
... On 2017-05-08, David Lesher wrote: "DoN. Nichols" writes: Some -- but the worst was when I installed a current shunt in series with the battery to the fuse block. There was an easy place to mount it -- a shelf on the right side just in front of the firewall. (I was using some aircraft instruments as displays, plus a 24-hour wind-up aircraft clock on a secondary panel -- removable so a passenger could fit in the seat. It was fine until I hit a vigorous bump, and the bonnet (US hood) prop rod fell down and shorted the load side of the shunt to ground. That stopped the car rather rapidly. :-) That's your fault, Don. You should have had the shunt in the ground side. Well ... the ground connection was from the battery to the chassis, and included the starter current. What I was metering were the things controlled by instrument panel switches (ignition -- *not* starter current, headlamps, instrument panel lamps, turn signals, and not much else. Those were grounded everywhere to the nearest chassis point, an d hard to put the shunt in that side without including the starter motor. So -- it was more my fault for not protecting the shunt from moving parts of the car (e.g. the bonnet prop rod. :-) As for SU fuel pumps, they were designed to save fuel. The car on the side of theroad uses none.... They do that, for sure. :-) Enjoy, DoN. I housed a bare 100A shunt in a PVC conduit tee. The heavy current leads pass through the straight ends and the sense leads, made from in-line fuseholders, come out the center leg. The fuseholders restrain the shunt so it doesn't need mounting screws that would expose voltage on the outside. http://www.bennys.bz/electrical/elec...prod_4111.html For this particular combination the heavy current bolts also keep the shunt in place because they won't pass into the round ends. I bought another 1.000 milliOhm 100A-rated shunt that lacked the 3/8" bolts. I couldn't find 3/8" brass bolts locally but a Diesel shop had 3/8-16 copper starter contacts that worked after I turned down the heads to accept soldered 3/8" brass nuts for the hex. -jsw |
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