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Default Old tractor and battery terminals

On Tue, 2 May 2017 15:53:45 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Jon Elson" wrote in message
...
Jim Wilkins wrote:


The engineers tried out my new tester on a fuel injection computer
and
blew it up when the protection Zener overheated and failed after a
few
load dump cycles. I think that's why they went to side terminal
batteries.

The Chevy Vega had side terminals in 1976. There was DARN little
electronics in that car. There was a module to shut off the air
cond when
the alternator was not producing, a timer on the rear window
defroster,
probably a VERY simple electronic ignition (I don't remember points
on that
one) and the radio. I don't think it even had intermittent wipers.
That
was it, and it was all analog stuff.

Jon


The fuel injection computer was for the 76 Seville. Since I worked for
a supplier of production test stations I saw developmental items
before they reached consumers.


It sounds as if you had a really fun job.

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On Tue, 2 May 2017 12:41:35 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 2 May 2017 07:07:02 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...

That was one of my points. You can tighten the bolt 'til the cows
come home but if it isn't squeezing the post, it won't work. But
if
you have frayed wire at the terminal to cable connection, you're
losing current there and the terminal should be replaced.

If you can apply a load away from the battery, such as from the
frame
to the starter or its relay, a voltmeter will reveal any voltage
drops
across poor terminal connections. Several amps of charging current
may
be enough, too.

A headlight bulb draws around 5 Amps.
-jsw

When the terminal smokes between it and the post you KNOW where the
problem is, and you KNOW the voltage drop will be very substantial.
(I'd bet 5 volts on a 6 volt system would be very close)


Smoke at the terminal could be from either the post or the cable
connection, I've had both go bad.

I can't see the battery when turning the key from the driver's seat
and need a voltmeter with long enough leads to rest it against the
raised hood. Actually I've needed a test lead long enough to reach
from the computer under the glovebox nearly to the left headlight,
when searching for a bad ground.


Extension test leads are no problem, right?

That's why I've always loved Fords. Run a remote starter switch (or
short a screwdriver) across the start and hot terminals on the
solenoid and you're standing right there while the engine cranks over,
test equipment in hand.

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Default Old tractor and battery terminals

On Tue, 02 May 2017 20:25:37 -0400, wrote:

On 3 May 2017 00:00:19 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2017-05-02, Jim Wilkins wrote:
wrote in message
...


[ ... ]

When the terminal smokes between it and the post you KNOW where the
problem is, and you KNOW the voltage drop will be very substantial.
(I'd bet 5 volts on a 6 volt system would be very close)

Smoke at the terminal could be from either the post or the cable
connection, I've had both go bad.

I can't see the battery when turning the key from the driver's seat
and need a voltmeter with long enough leads to rest it against the
raised hood. Actually I've needed a test lead long enough to reach
from the computer under the glovebox nearly to the left headlight,
when searching for a bad ground.


Well ... with the MGA, the key was not needed -- other than to
be turned on. (And it was easy to bypass the ignition switch at the
fuse block by moving a fuse from one pair of clips to be between both
pairs.)

Then, to crank (and you really don't need the ignition on anyway
if you are looking for where a high resistance point is in the
battery/starter system), you simply reach over to the starter contacts,
which are normally operated from the driver's seat by pulling a knob on
a flexible cable, and either pull on the collar connecting the switch
to the cable, or push on the part projecting from the switch. Purely
mechanical until you get to the contacts themselves. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

From what I remenber the 9n is similar.From my recollection there is
a way tp activate the switch directly instead of through the
mechanical remote control. There is no solenoid, and the key doesn't
activate the starter.


Unless one adds one (should be fairly simple and inexpensive) to aid
in troubleshooting the ancient beasties.

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Default Old tractor and battery terminals

On Tue, 2 May 2017 07:18:31 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Tuesday, May 2, 2017 at 12:41:42 AM UTC-4, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 01 May 2017 17:57:17 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Mon, 01 May 2017 14:49:33 -0700, etpm wrote:

On Mon, 1 May 2017 05:21:51 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Speaking of old tractors, I can't get a good contact to the battery
terminal on my old Ferguson. I cleaned the post and connector off with
a (3M) green scrubbie, but when I clamp it together and push the starter
button I get a puff of smoke from the terminal as I vaporize some small
section of lead where the terminal connector meet. Is there some goo or
other tricks I can use?

George H.


I just went through this George. Cleaned battery clamp with the wire
brush made for this. No go. Got out my pocket and went at the inside of
clamp. There was a very hard oxide coating on the inside of the clamp.
It shines up nice with a wire brush but doesn't conduct electricity
worth a damn. After scraping this hard coating off, and you can
certainly tell it's hard because it almost chips off, I could feel the
knife blade dig into soft lead. After scraping the inside it was nice
and bright and the old tractor spun right over. With a 6 volt battery.
Probably the same as your old beast.
Eric

I've had that happen. Yup. Scrape it out with a pocket knife.

Someone mentioned a proper tapered reamer to do this. Maybe it's good if
you live in the city...


C'mon, guys. Keep the taper.
http://tinyurl.com/lwhch7l
My old one is from SnapOn. (Someone gave it to me. I don't have the
bag of hundreds for one.)

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Guys... Jim, Tim, Dan, Clare, Larry, Eric.. and whomever I missed.
Thanks for all the ideas!
I'm going to try scrapping (with a knife) the inside of the terminal, and also stop by the auto store and pick up some new terminals.

So a related story. My pick up was having battery issues.
I couldn't figure out what it was. (new alternator/ battery..
old truck) I have an electric winch which raises/ lowers the plow on
the front. Using the winch would often cause the battery light to turn
on, and the battery voltage (as read by instrument cluster) to drop.

I finally had my son engage the winch while I measured the voltage
right at the terminals. No drop! Turns out someone (it could have been
me or the previous owner) had put a washer between the lead terminal and
the copper ring that was bonded to the wire. Dang washer had corroded
over time, and now had ~1 ohm of resistance.


That'll do 'er. g I always checked the fuse box for tinfoil or
nails before buying a new used vehicle, too. My time with a shadetree
mechanic while going to UTI was of immense value. I found out how NOT
to do 101+ things. I saw him rebuilding an engine once. He dipped the
entire main bearing in pure STP. When I told him it wasn't oil, that
he had to mix it with oil (or use assembly grease) and that he
shouldn't put anything behind the bearing, he scoffed and continued on
the way he had. The poor buyer got 1000 miles into his cross-country
trip before the main bearing spun.

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Average # of people killed in mass shooting when stopped by police: 18.25
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Default Old tractor and battery terminals

On Wed, 03 May 2017 05:27:51 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Tue, 02 May 2017 20:25:37 -0400, wrote:

On 3 May 2017 00:00:19 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2017-05-02, Jim Wilkins wrote:
wrote in message
...

[ ... ]

When the terminal smokes between it and the post you KNOW where the
problem is, and you KNOW the voltage drop will be very substantial.
(I'd bet 5 volts on a 6 volt system would be very close)

Smoke at the terminal could be from either the post or the cable
connection, I've had both go bad.

I can't see the battery when turning the key from the driver's seat
and need a voltmeter with long enough leads to rest it against the
raised hood. Actually I've needed a test lead long enough to reach
from the computer under the glovebox nearly to the left headlight,
when searching for a bad ground.

Well ... with the MGA, the key was not needed -- other than to
be turned on. (And it was easy to bypass the ignition switch at the
fuse block by moving a fuse from one pair of clips to be between both
pairs.)

Then, to crank (and you really don't need the ignition on anyway
if you are looking for where a high resistance point is in the
battery/starter system), you simply reach over to the starter contacts,
which are normally operated from the driver's seat by pulling a knob on
a flexible cable, and either pull on the collar connecting the switch
to the cable, or push on the part projecting from the switch. Purely
mechanical until you get to the contacts themselves. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

From what I remenber the 9n is similar.From my recollection there is
a way tp activate the switch directly instead of through the
mechanical remote control. There is no solenoid, and the key doesn't
activate the starter.


Unless one adds one (should be fairly simple and inexpensive) to aid
in troubleshooting the ancient beasties.

Just more to go wrong. A dead simple mechanical switch is the easiest
to troubleshoot.
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Default Old tractor and battery terminals

On Tue, 02 May 2017 20:25:37 -0400, wrote:

On 3 May 2017 00:00:19 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2017-05-02, Jim Wilkins wrote:
wrote in message
...


[ ... ]

When the terminal smokes between it and the post you KNOW where the
problem is, and you KNOW the voltage drop will be very substantial.
(I'd bet 5 volts on a 6 volt system would be very close)

Smoke at the terminal could be from either the post or the cable
connection, I've had both go bad.

I can't see the battery when turning the key from the driver's seat
and need a voltmeter with long enough leads to rest it against the
raised hood. Actually I've needed a test lead long enough to reach
from the computer under the glovebox nearly to the left headlight,
when searching for a bad ground.


Well ... with the MGA, the key was not needed -- other than to
be turned on. (And it was easy to bypass the ignition switch at the
fuse block by moving a fuse from one pair of clips to be between both
pairs.)

Then, to crank (and you really don't need the ignition on anyway
if you are looking for where a high resistance point is in the
battery/starter system), you simply reach over to the starter contacts,
which are normally operated from the driver's seat by pulling a knob on
a flexible cable, and either pull on the collar connecting the switch
to the cable, or push on the part projecting from the switch. Purely
mechanical until you get to the contacts themselves. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

From what I remenber the 9n is similar.From my recollection there is
a way tp activate the switch directly instead of through the
mechanical remote control. There is no solenoid, and the key doesn't
activate the starter.

That's correct. The switch is activated by a rod that is moved by the
starter button. The battery cable and starter cable to the switch
connections are just hanging out in the wind pretty much so a
screwdriver or similar will work the activate the starter motor.
Eric


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Default Old tractor and battery terminals

On Tue, 02 May 2017 20:27:44 -0400, wrote:

On Tue, 2 May 2017 17:01:05 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 2, 2017 at 5:35:05 PM UTC-4, Clare wrote:
On Tue, 2 May 2017 12:07:51 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 2, 2017 at 2:54:16 PM UTC-4, Jon Elson wrote:
Jim Wilkins wrote:


The engineers tried out my new tester on a fuel injection computer and
blew it up when the protection Zener overheated and failed after a few
load dump cycles. I think that's why they went to side terminal
batteries.
The Chevy Vega had side terminals in 1976. There was DARN little
electronics in that car. There was a module to shut off the air cond when
the alternator was not producing, a timer on the rear window defroster,
probably a VERY simple electronic ignition (I don't remember points on that
one) and the radio. I don't think it even had intermittent wipers. That
was it, and it was all analog stuff.

Jon

Well, having the battery in the trunk seemed to solve a lot of problems in my 1958 Alfa Romeo. g It was nice and clean back there, and cool. However, the cable that ran forward used a lot of copper.

As for electronics, I did have to replace a couple of vacuum tubes in the Blaupunkt radio...

There is a lot of virtue in simplicity.
The battery in the trunk of my '61 Mini almost resulted in the
destruction of the car - and the crappy "cap" type battery connector
was a royal pain.


A product of Britain's Prince of Darkness, eh?

[Bumper sticker seen on Mini in the early '60s: "Why to the Brits drink warm beer? Because they have Lucas refrigerators."]


They drink their beer at room temperature, and anyone who's lived in
Britain knows THAT isn't particularly "warm".

Lucas makes heaters too, huh?

For thise who have never seen an early Mini up close, the battery was
in the trunk opposite the fuel tank and was originally covered with a
heany cardboard cover. The battery connection was a tapered cap that
fit down over the battery post and was held down with basically a #8
sheet metal screw threaded into the top of the battery post. The
connection tended to get "flakey" to the point that when one pressed
on the rubber covered button on the gigh current switch between the
seats, sometimes it would spark and the engine would not crank.
Simplyb having someone swat the rear quarter panel, kick the rear
tire, or slam the door with the button pressed usually caused the
connection to re-establish itself, and the critter would crank and
start.

By the time I aquired this particular car it was10 years old and had
196000 miles of rural mail delivery under it's belt - and that battery
cover was long gone. It had also developed a prodigious appetete for
engine oil, so there was generally a few quarts of Nugold SAE50 riding
along in the trunk.One day with eigh of us young folks crammed in
heading to the local stock car races 2 of those cans managed to short
out across the battery, burning a hole in the cans and lighting the
ensuing small stream of oil on fire. When we noticed the smoke curling
up from around the back seat, I shut off the car and we were all out
before it came to a full stop, and one of my friends had the trunk
open and tossed the burning oil can onto the ground beside the car.
when the fire was out and the smoke dissipated, we all jumped back in
and went on our way.


BMC owners always have fun tales to tell. I'll bet Don has some from his MGA experience.

Mine, with my MG Midget Mk III (1275 cc), came one night in December when I was driving from Michigan to NJ in freezing rain, and the left-side parking light cover filled with salt water because the gasket leaked; the wiring shorted out with no fuses at all in the system, burning the insulation off of the wiring harness under the dash and filling the cockpit with smoke; and then I had to drive 20 miles down the Ohio Turnkike with a flashlight instead of headlights. d8-)


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"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 2 May 2017 13:21:05 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:
...
The engineers tried out my new tester on a fuel injection computer
and
blew it up when the protection Zener overheated and failed after a
few
load dump cycles. I think that's why they went to side terminal
batteries.


? What's the difference in transient voltage handling between top
and
side term batts? I thought the difference was merely physical
config.

Bummer on the quick trashing of your tester.


The fuel injection computer was destroyed, not my tester. The solder
holding a thick solid wire to the top of the stud-mount clamp Zener
melted and the wire popped off. The next high-voltage discharge
wrecked the module before I could run around the engineers and stop
it.

Do side terminals corrode?

-jsw


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Default Old tractor and battery terminals

On Wed, 03 May 2017 08:13:04 -0700, wrote:

On Tue, 02 May 2017 20:27:44 -0400,
wrote:

On Tue, 2 May 2017 17:01:05 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 2, 2017 at 5:35:05 PM UTC-4, Clare wrote:
On Tue, 2 May 2017 12:07:51 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 2, 2017 at 2:54:16 PM UTC-4, Jon Elson wrote:
Jim Wilkins wrote:


The engineers tried out my new tester on a fuel injection computer and
blew it up when the protection Zener overheated and failed after a few
load dump cycles. I think that's why they went to side terminal
batteries.
The Chevy Vega had side terminals in 1976. There was DARN little
electronics in that car. There was a module to shut off the air cond when
the alternator was not producing, a timer on the rear window defroster,
probably a VERY simple electronic ignition (I don't remember points on that
one) and the radio. I don't think it even had intermittent wipers. That
was it, and it was all analog stuff.

Jon

Well, having the battery in the trunk seemed to solve a lot of problems in my 1958 Alfa Romeo. g It was nice and clean back there, and cool. However, the cable that ran forward used a lot of copper.

As for electronics, I did have to replace a couple of vacuum tubes in the Blaupunkt radio...

There is a lot of virtue in simplicity.
The battery in the trunk of my '61 Mini almost resulted in the
destruction of the car - and the crappy "cap" type battery connector
was a royal pain.

A product of Britain's Prince of Darkness, eh?

[Bumper sticker seen on Mini in the early '60s: "Why to the Brits drink warm beer? Because they have Lucas refrigerators."]


They drink their beer at room temperature, and anyone who's lived in
Britain knows THAT isn't particularly "warm".

Lucas makes heaters too, huh?


I hear they gave up on vacuums because they found it was the only
thing they could design that reallt didn't suck - -

For thise who have never seen an early Mini up close, the battery was
in the trunk opposite the fuel tank and was originally covered with a
heany cardboard cover. The battery connection was a tapered cap that
fit down over the battery post and was held down with basically a #8
sheet metal screw threaded into the top of the battery post. The
connection tended to get "flakey" to the point that when one pressed
on the rubber covered button on the gigh current switch between the
seats, sometimes it would spark and the engine would not crank.
Simplyb having someone swat the rear quarter panel, kick the rear
tire, or slam the door with the button pressed usually caused the
connection to re-establish itself, and the critter would crank and
start.

By the time I aquired this particular car it was10 years old and had
196000 miles of rural mail delivery under it's belt - and that battery
cover was long gone. It had also developed a prodigious appetete for
engine oil, so there was generally a few quarts of Nugold SAE50 riding
along in the trunk.One day with eigh of us young folks crammed in
heading to the local stock car races 2 of those cans managed to short
out across the battery, burning a hole in the cans and lighting the
ensuing small stream of oil on fire. When we noticed the smoke curling
up from around the back seat, I shut off the car and we were all out
before it came to a full stop, and one of my friends had the trunk
open and tossed the burning oil can onto the ground beside the car.
when the fire was out and the smoke dissipated, we all jumped back in
and went on our way.

BMC owners always have fun tales to tell. I'll bet Don has some from his MGA experience.

Mine, with my MG Midget Mk III (1275 cc), came one night in December when I was driving from Michigan to NJ in freezing rain, and the left-side parking light cover filled with salt water because the gasket leaked; the wiring shorted out with no fuses at all in the system, burning the insulation off of the wiring harness under the dash and filling the cockpit with smoke; and then I had to drive 20 miles down the Ohio Turnkike with a flashlight instead of headlights. d8-)


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On Wed, 3 May 2017 12:25:05 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 2 May 2017 13:21:05 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:
...
The engineers tried out my new tester on a fuel injection computer
and
blew it up when the protection Zener overheated and failed after a
few
load dump cycles. I think that's why they went to side terminal
batteries.


? What's the difference in transient voltage handling between top
and
side term batts? I thought the difference was merely physical
config.

Bummer on the quick trashing of your tester.


The fuel injection computer was destroyed, not my tester. The solder
holding a thick solid wire to the top of the stud-mount clamp Zener
melted and the wire popped off. The next high-voltage discharge
wrecked the module before I could run around the engineers and stop
it.

Do side terminals corrode?

-jsw

Yes. Just not as quickly and as seriously.
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On Wed, 03 May 2017 10:16:03 -0400, wrote:

On Wed, 03 May 2017 05:20:42 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On 2 May 2017 23:39:32 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2017-05-02,
wrote:

[ ... ]

For thise who have never seen an early Mini up close, the battery was
in the trunk opposite the fuel tank and was originally covered with a
heany cardboard cover. The battery connection was a tapered cap that
fit down over the battery post and was held down with basically a #8
sheet metal screw threaded into the top of the battery post.

Hmm ... my first MGA 1500 used two 6V batteries, behind the two
seats on either side of the driveshaft. It was accessed under a
removable panel behind the seats. Anyway -- it had four of those
connector/screw combinations. One for the cable to the engine
compartment, one for the ground cable to the chassis, and two on the
vary short cable which looped over the driveshaft. I never had problems
with the connectors there.


My sister's 1973 BLMC MBG-GT (say that 3 times really fast) had the
same twin 6v underseat config and had nothing but trouble with them
for 35 years. I could never understand the draw of Prince of
Darkness-equipped vehicles, myself. Nuttin' but trubble.

Chrome bumber Bs had the dual/split battery configuration.
Rubber-bumper('74 and newer?) Bs had a single 12 volt battery.


Enlightenment, at last!

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Average # of people killed in mass shooting when stopped by police: 18.25
Average # of people killed when stopped by civilians: 2

Save lives: Keep Civilians Armed!


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On Wed, 3 May 2017 12:25:05 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 2 May 2017 13:21:05 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:
...
The engineers tried out my new tester on a fuel injection computer
and
blew it up when the protection Zener overheated and failed after a
few
load dump cycles. I think that's why they went to side terminal
batteries.


? What's the difference in transient voltage handling between top
and
side term batts? I thought the difference was merely physical
config.

Bummer on the quick trashing of your tester.


The fuel injection computer was destroyed, not my tester.


Oh, read that thinking the tester went tits-up.


The solder
holding a thick solid wire to the top of the stud-mount clamp Zener
melted and the wire popped off. The next high-voltage discharge
wrecked the module before I could run around the engineers and stop
it.


Oh, well. Who let them loose around a power switch, anyway?


Do side terminals corrode?


Yes, but they do so a bit less than the top post style. The real fun
is when someone uses an -open- end wrench on the 5/16" bolt head.
Luckily, most of the terminal bolts are made with large round heads
which permit channel lock pliers to be used on them. Insulated,
please.


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Average # of people killed when stopped by civilians: 2

Save lives: Keep Civilians Armed!
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Default Old tractor and battery terminals

On 2017-05-03, wrote:

BMC owners always have fun tales to tell. I'll bet Don has some from
his MGA experience.


Some -- but the worst was when I installed a current shunt in
series with the battery to the fuse block. There was an easy place to
mount it -- a shelf on the right side just in front of the firewall. (I
was using some aircraft instruments as displays, plus a 24-hour wind-up
aircraft clock on a secondary panel -- removable so a passenger could
fit in the seat.

It was fine until I hit a vigorous bump, and the bonnet (US
hood) prop rod fell down and shorted the load side of the shunt to
ground. That stopped the car rather rapidly. :-) (No, I can't blame
Lucas for this, it was my own modification which did it.) When I
rebuilt it, using a short coil of 16 Ga wire as a shunt (it wasn't
calibrated, anyway -- just a rough reading of load with and without
headlights and heater fan.) I added a Plexiglass shield to prevent a
repeat of the short.

And the one electrical part which did give regular problems was
*not* branded "Lucas" -- but rather "SU". This was the electric fuel
pump, which slowly burned the points of the toggle linkage to the
solenoid, and every so often required adjustment. When the fuel pump
stopped, the first thing to do was to reach up to the ignition switch
and switch it off and on several times to pump the float bowls full
again. Then pull over to the side of the road, remove the battery cover
behind the two seats, get one half of the jack crank rod for the "King
Dick" screw jack, and get back in. Start up, and whenever the fuel flow
stopped, pick up the rod and bang it down on the side of the fuel pump
(not sure what a driver in the RHD UK versions would do, as he was
sitting almost on top of it), and it would go "tic, tic, tic, tic, ..."
and work again for a while. Once I got to my destination (usually work)
I would climb under the right side near the rear tire, reach in and
unscrew the nut connecting the wire, remove the nut under that, and pull
off the insulating cap. Then I would remove two screws, and turn the
toggle points assembly a few turns clockwise, and re-assemble it, and it
would be fine for a few months. (Yes, I always had the needed tools for
the task at hand. :-)

Now -- a friend also had a MGA-1600, and shortly after the two
of us had done a full rebuild on our fuel pumps (new diaphragm and
toggle points), he (while working night shift, so he had free time in
the day) pulled into the dealer to pick up some parts for his MGA. As
he pulled in, he saw someone with his head under the right rear side and
thought "It looks like he is working on his fuel pump -- no just because
the two of us just did it does not mean that he is."

Anyway, he went in, got the parts he needed, and spent some time
chatting with the parts guy. While doing that, the pair of legs he had
seen came in, said "I need a fuel pump for a MGA -- Here's my core
charge!" and thunked it down on the counter. As the parts guy turned to
go get one, my friend said "What is wrong with it? A friend and I both
just rebuilt ours."

The parts guy paused to hear the answer, and the pair of legs
said:

"Well ... I don't know much about these cars, but a friend does,
and he said it was the fuel pump."

"But what was it doing?"

"Well, when I turn on the ignition, it goes "Tic, Tic, Tic, Tic
..."

It took my friend, and the parts guy about five minutes to stop
laughing, and explain to him that yes, it was the fuel pump he heard,
but that was the sound of a perfectly healthy one. :-)

Mine, with my MG Midget Mk III (1275 cc), came one night in December
when I was driving from Michigan to NJ in freezing rain, and the
left-side parking light cover filled with salt water because the gasket
leaked; the wiring shorted out with no fuses at all in the system,
burning the insulation off of the wiring harness under the dash and
filling the cockpit with smoke; and then I had to drive 20 miles down
the Ohio Turnkike with a flashlight instead of headlights. d8-)


Now that was spectacular. For whatever reason, the parking light
covers never leaked on either my MGA 1500 or the MGA 1600 Mk-II. The
rear light coves for the 1600 Mk-II were the same as on a Midget, I
think. Long rectangle ended by a half-circle at each end, mounted
horizontally on the MGA and vertically oh the Midget. That also
remained watertight, as did the older light covers on the MGA 1500.

However, I did have a problem during a driving rain. (Summer
thunderstorm.) I started out from work in a nice dry summer day, so the
top (UK hood) was down, and a heavy rainstorm came up As long as I kept
going at speed, only my hair was getting wet, and I had a spare wiper
blade to clean sprinkles off the inside surface of the windscreen
(windshield). Suddenly, the light came on to indicate no charging
current. I pulled over under an overpass, got out, and checked. I had
expected a broken fan belt, but what had happened was the belt pulley on
the crankshaft had split into its two disc components and was no longer
driving the belt.

The temperature went up a bit, but with all the water splashing
on the radiator, it was not overheating -- the thermo-siphon was doing
its job, so I continued to home. (It was a MBG 1800cc engine by then,
but with a MGA pulley to keep it just a little shorter, and was running
with the MGA's SU carbs and intake manifold, as well as the water pump,
starter motor, and flywheel to make things fit.

A friend helped me pick up a replacement pulley, and it was
working again.

So -- really no problems with Lucas electrics for me, just the
SU electric fuel pump.

Enjoy,
DoN.

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On 4 May 2017 02:11:34 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:


A friend helped me pick up a replacement pulley, and it was
working again.

So -- really no problems with Lucas electrics for me, just the
SU electric fuel pump.

Enjoy,
DoN.

The "Ticky-Ticky on my mini used to refuse to start occaisionally too
- I'd give it a rap and it would generally go for another month.The
one on the '53 TD was misbehaving too the other year - we got a solid
state conversion kit for it - no more points!!!!

The electrical problems on my Vauxhaul Firenza 2300 were not lucas
problems either - that beasty had AC DElco electrics and I lost the
regulator coming into Halifax from Sydney, after having replaced the
timing belt on the side of the road.
Not sure who made the electrics on the Mystique, but the electrical
connections were the biggest problem on that car -other than rust.
Nothing electrical could be as ignorant as Ducellier or Paris Rhone
thogh - Peugeot and Fiat.
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Larry Jaques writes:


Yeah, headlights were an easy test for a charging system, too. Start
it up, remove a battery cable, then turn on the brights. The engine
will die if the charging system isn't working properly.


Please do not do this on any system with any electronics.
Google up "load dump" and see why.


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"David Lesher" wrote in message
news
Larry Jaques writes:


Yeah, headlights were an easy test for a charging system, too.
Start
it up, remove a battery cable, then turn on the brights. The engine
will die if the charging system isn't working properly.


Please do not do this on any system with any electronics.
Google up "load dump" and see why.


http://www2.advantech.com.tw/eservic...plications.pdf

DC clamp-on ammeters are cheaper than replacing the vehicle
electronics. This one can handle from milliAmp parasitic drain to 100A
charging current, but not starter current, even on my riding mower.
The 400A DC clamp-on probe I use to measure that is no longer
available.
https://www.amazon.com/Uni-T-B4Q094-.../dp/B00O1Q2HOQ

These can show that the charging system is alive, at least:
http://www.stuttgartperformanceengin...veammater.html
-jsw


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On Thu, 4 May 2017 07:34:13 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"David Lesher" wrote in message
news
Larry Jaques writes:


Yeah, headlights were an easy test for a charging system, too.
Start
it up, remove a battery cable, then turn on the brights. The engine
will die if the charging system isn't working properly.


Please do not do this on any system with any electronics.
Google up "load dump" and see why.


http://www2.advantech.com.tw/eservic...plications.pdf

DC clamp-on ammeters are cheaper than replacing the vehicle
electronics. This one can handle from milliAmp parasitic drain to 100A
charging current, but not starter current, even on my riding mower.
The 400A DC clamp-on probe I use to measure that is no longer
available.
https://www.amazon.com/Uni-T-B4Q094-.../dp/B00O1Q2HOQ

These can show that the charging system is alive, at least:
http://www.stuttgartperformanceengin...veammater.html
-jsw

A very sizeable percentage odf staters today draw less than 100 amps
(permanent magnet geared starters aften draw 75 amps or less)
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On Tue, 02 May 2017 05:15:43 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Tue, 2 May 2017 07:07:02 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..

That was one of my points. You can tighten the bolt 'til the cows
come home but if it isn't squeezing the post, it won't work. But if
you have frayed wire at the terminal to cable connection, you're
losing current there and the terminal should be replaced.


If you can apply a load away from the battery, such as from the frame
to the starter or its relay, a voltmeter will reveal any voltage drops
across poor terminal connections. Several amps of charging current may
be enough, too.

A headlight bulb draws around 5 Amps.


Yeah, headlights were an easy test for a charging system, too. Start
it up, remove a battery cable, then turn on the brights. The engine
will die if the charging system isn't working properly.


Its also a good way to kill an alternator on some vehicles.


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On Tue, 02 May 2017 15:35:20 -0700, wrote:

On Tue, 02 May 2017 17:35:03 -0400,
wrote:

On Tue, 2 May 2017 12:07:51 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Tuesday, May 2, 2017 at 2:54:16 PM UTC-4, Jon Elson wrote:
Jim Wilkins wrote:


The engineers tried out my new tester on a fuel injection computer and
blew it up when the protection Zener overheated and failed after a few
load dump cycles. I think that's why they went to side terminal
batteries.
The Chevy Vega had side terminals in 1976. There was DARN little
electronics in that car. There was a module to shut off the air cond when
the alternator was not producing, a timer on the rear window defroster,
probably a VERY simple electronic ignition (I don't remember points on that
one) and the radio. I don't think it even had intermittent wipers. That
was it, and it was all analog stuff.

Jon

Well, having the battery in the trunk seemed to solve a lot of problems in my 1958 Alfa Romeo. g It was nice and clean back there, and cool. However, the cable that ran forward used a lot of copper.

As for electronics, I did have to replace a couple of vacuum tubes in the Blaupunkt radio...

There is a lot of virtue in simplicity.

The battery in the trunk of my '61 Mini almost resulted in the
destruction of the car - and the crappy "cap" type battery connector
was a royal pain.

For thise who have never seen an early Mini up close, the battery was
in the trunk opposite the fuel tank and was originally covered with a
heany cardboard cover. The battery connection was a tapered cap that
fit down over the battery post and was held down with basically a #8
sheet metal screw threaded into the top of the battery post. The
connection tended to get "flakey" to the point that when one pressed
on the rubber covered button on the gigh current switch between the
seats, sometimes it would spark and the engine would not crank.
Simplyb having someone swat the rear quarter panel, kick the rear
tire, or slam the door with the button pressed usually caused the
connection to re-establish itself, and the critter would crank and
start.

By the time I aquired this particular car it was10 years old and had
196000 miles of rural mail delivery under it's belt - and that battery
cover was long gone. It had also developed a prodigious appetete for
engine oil, so there was generally a few quarts of Nugold SAE50 riding
along in the trunk.One day with eigh of us young folks crammed in
heading to the local stock car races 2 of those cans managed to short
out across the battery, burning a hole in the cans and lighting the
ensuing small stream of oil on fire. When we noticed the smoke curling
up from around the back seat, I shut off the car and we were all out
before it came to a full stop, and one of my friends had the trunk
open and tossed the burning oil can onto the ground beside the car.
when the fire was out and the smoke dissipated, we all jumped back in
and went on our way.

I had a VW bug, several actually, but one of the first had the back
seat short against the battery terminals. I had no idea that this
could be a problem until someone was sitting in the back seat and
complained of a burning smell and then said the seat was getting hot.
I pulled over and pulled the seat out. There was some sort of cover
missing and the seat coils were making contact with the battery posts
as the car bounced. Didn't affect the running of the car though. I
think it was a magazine or some newspaper I put over the battery as a
temporary fix. Then we piled back in, cracked another beer, and sped
down the dirt road. That was an interesting day.
Eric


Did just that with my first "serious" girlfriend. She was 5'10", I was
6'2" and we weighed combined..right at 350 lbs. She was straddling me
and as we did the "wild bunny thing"...our weight caused the seat
springs to contact the hot terminal under the passenger rear seat. She
is off in another world and Ive joined her..and suddenly my ass is
getting hotter and hotter...trying to snap her back into this one, and
recognize we are perched over a burning backseat...fun to laugh at
now..but then...no so much fun. Ripped out the backseat and threw it
into a snow bank where it blazed quite nicely. Had to go to a
wrecking yard to get another rear seat. Color didnt match....shrug




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On Thu, 4 May 2017 04:18:14 +0000 (UTC), David Lesher
wrote:

Larry Jaques writes:


Yeah, headlights were an easy test for a charging system, too. Start
it up, remove a battery cable, then turn on the brights. The engine
will die if the charging system isn't working properly.


Please do not do this on any system with any electronics.
Google up "load dump" and see why.



^5!!


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"DoN. Nichols" writes:


Some -- but the worst was when I installed a current shunt in
series with the battery to the fuse block. There was an easy place to
mount it -- a shelf on the right side just in front of the firewall. (I
was using some aircraft instruments as displays, plus a 24-hour wind-up
aircraft clock on a secondary panel -- removable so a passenger could
fit in the seat.


It was fine until I hit a vigorous bump, and the bonnet (US
hood) prop rod fell down and shorted the load side of the shunt to
ground. That stopped the car rather rapidly. :-)


That's your fault, Don. You should have had the shunt in the ground side.

As for SU fuel pumps, they were designed to save fuel. The car on the side
of theroad uses none....


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On 2017-05-08, David Lesher wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" writes:


Some -- but the worst was when I installed a current shunt in
series with the battery to the fuse block. There was an easy place to
mount it -- a shelf on the right side just in front of the firewall. (I
was using some aircraft instruments as displays, plus a 24-hour wind-up
aircraft clock on a secondary panel -- removable so a passenger could
fit in the seat.


It was fine until I hit a vigorous bump, and the bonnet (US
hood) prop rod fell down and shorted the load side of the shunt to
ground. That stopped the car rather rapidly. :-)


That's your fault, Don. You should have had the shunt in the ground side.


Well ... the ground connection was from the battery to the
chassis, and included the starter current. What I was metering were the
things controlled by instrument panel switches (ignition -- *not*
starter current, headlamps, instrument panel lamps, turn signals, and
not much else. Those were grounded everywhere to the nearest chassis
point, an d hard to put the shunt in that side without including the
starter motor.

So -- it was more my fault for not protecting the shunt from
moving parts of the car (e.g. the bonnet prop rod. :-)

As for SU fuel pumps, they were designed to save fuel. The car on the side
of theroad uses none....


They do that, for sure. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

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"DoN. Nichols" wrote in message
...
On 2017-05-08, David Lesher wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" writes:


Some -- but the worst was when I installed a current shunt in
series with the battery to the fuse block. There was an easy place
to
mount it -- a shelf on the right side just in front of the
firewall. (I
was using some aircraft instruments as displays, plus a 24-hour
wind-up
aircraft clock on a secondary panel -- removable so a passenger
could
fit in the seat.


It was fine until I hit a vigorous bump, and the bonnet (US
hood) prop rod fell down and shorted the load side of the shunt to
ground. That stopped the car rather rapidly. :-)


That's your fault, Don. You should have had the shunt in the ground
side.


Well ... the ground connection was from the battery to the
chassis, and included the starter current. What I was metering were
the
things controlled by instrument panel switches (ignition -- *not*
starter current, headlamps, instrument panel lamps, turn signals,
and
not much else. Those were grounded everywhere to the nearest
chassis
point, an d hard to put the shunt in that side without including the
starter motor.

So -- it was more my fault for not protecting the shunt from
moving parts of the car (e.g. the bonnet prop rod. :-)

As for SU fuel pumps, they were designed to save fuel. The car on
the side
of theroad uses none....


They do that, for sure. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.


I housed a bare 100A shunt in a PVC conduit tee. The heavy current
leads pass through the straight ends and the sense leads, made from
in-line fuseholders, come out the center leg. The fuseholders restrain
the shunt so it doesn't need mounting screws that would expose voltage
on the outside.
http://www.bennys.bz/electrical/elec...prod_4111.html

For this particular combination the heavy current bolts also keep the
shunt in place because they won't pass into the round ends.

I bought another 1.000 milliOhm 100A-rated shunt that lacked the 3/8"
bolts. I couldn't find 3/8" brass bolts locally but a Diesel shop had
3/8-16 copper starter contacts that worked after I turned down the
heads to accept soldered 3/8" brass nuts for the hex.
-jsw


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