To all the greasy folks here,
About 7 years ago I took apart my dividing head to make some changes.
I completely degreased all the parts. When re-assembling the thing I
used white lithium grease on all the parts that needed grease. Lately
the rotating parts have become very stiff, as if the brake was on. I
took it apart today and discovered that the white grease had turned
into green glue. But only on the steel worm and bronze worm gear. The
all steel tapered roller bearings at both ends still have grease that
works and looks like grease is supposed to. It appears that there is
some kind of chemical reaction happening between the grease and the
bronze gear. Anybody here know anything about this?
Thanks,
Eric

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 14:25:30 -0800, wrote:

To all the greasy folks here,
About 7 years ago I took apart my dividing head to make some changes.
I completely degreased all the parts. When re-assembling the thing I
used white lithium grease on all the parts that needed grease. Lately
the rotating parts have become very stiff, as if the brake was on. I
took it apart today and discovered that the white grease had turned
into green glue. But only on the steel worm and bronze worm gear. The
all steel tapered roller bearings at both ends still have grease that
works and looks like grease is supposed to. It appears that there is
some kind of chemical reaction happening between the grease and the
bronze gear. Anybody here know anything about this?
Thanks,
Eric

Some sulfur containing EP additives are not compatible with copper
bearing alloys. It's a common concern with gear oils. I've never heard
of an issue with grease, but if the grease was made from oil with
non-compatible additives...

--
Ned Simmons

On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 6:15:09 PM UTC-5, Ned Simmons wrote:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 14:25:30 -0800, wrote:

To all the greasy folks here,
About 7 years ago I took apart my dividing head to make some changes.
I completely degreased all the parts. When re-assembling the thing I
used white lithium grease on all the parts that needed grease. Lately
the rotating parts have become very stiff, as if the brake was on. I
took it apart today and discovered that the white grease had turned
into green glue. But only on the steel worm and bronze worm gear. The
all steel tapered roller bearings at both ends still have grease that
works and looks like grease is supposed to. It appears that there is
some kind of chemical reaction happening between the grease and the
bronze gear. Anybody here know anything about this?
Thanks,
Eric

Some sulfur containing EP additives are not compatible with copper
bearing alloys. It's a common concern with gear oils. I've never heard
of an issue with grease, but if the grease was made from oil with
non-compatible additives...

--
Ned Simmons

This reminds me of a warning in a repair manual for old Jaguars, at least the early, 6-cyl. E-type: They had bronze ring gears and they had a note about which lubricants were compatible and incompatible.

My '57 Alfa Romeo Guilietta had a bronze distributor drive gear. I don't remember any specific warnings, but they were explicit about oil grades, including all of the letter designations that came after the weight.

(In '58, Alfa switched to steel gears.)

--
Ed Huntress

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 14:25:30 -0800
wrote:

To all the greasy folks here,
About 7 years ago I took apart my dividing head to make some changes.
I completely degreased all the parts. When re-assembling the thing I
used white lithium grease on all the parts that needed grease. Lately
the rotating parts have become very stiff, as if the brake was on. I
took it apart today and discovered that the white grease had turned
into green glue. But only on the steel worm and bronze worm gear. The
all steel tapered roller bearings at both ends still have grease that
works and looks like grease is supposed to. It appears that there is
some kind of chemical reaction happening between the grease and the
bronze gear. Anybody here know anything about this?
Thanks,
Eric

Worm gears tend to run hot, more so than the your roller bearings. It
might be getting warmer in there than you think it is (shrug).

This web site has several articles on lube and worm gears:

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/...ar-lubrication

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/...080/worm-gears

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/...ate-worm-gears

Oil seems to be preferred over grease...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 18:15:13 -0500, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 14:25:30 -0800, wrote:

To all the greasy folks here,
About 7 years ago I took apart my dividing head to make some changes.
I completely degreased all the parts. When re-assembling the thing I
used white lithium grease on all the parts that needed grease. Lately
the rotating parts have become very stiff, as if the brake was on. I
took it apart today and discovered that the white grease had turned
into green glue. But only on the steel worm and bronze worm gear. The
all steel tapered roller bearings at both ends still have grease that
works and looks like grease is supposed to. It appears that there is
some kind of chemical reaction happening between the grease and the
bronze gear. Anybody here know anything about this?
Thanks,
Eric

Some sulfur containing EP additives are not compatible with copper
bearing alloys. It's a common concern with gear oils. I've never heard
of an issue with grease, but if the grease was made from oil with
non-compatible additives...
Greetings Ned,
I tried to find out what kind of oil is used in the white grease I
have and have had no luck. But I'm thinking you must be correct about
the sulfur, even though the grease is not described as having any EP
additives. Based on your post I am going to make sure that any greases
I use in the future on bronze mechanisms do not contain sulfur or any
other additives that can harm bronze. The grease in contact not only
became a substance similar to thick glue parts of it turned into
almost a solid. And conventional solvents used to dissolve greases had
no effect I could see on the morphed grease when I cleaned it all out.
Eric

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 18:15:13 -0500, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 14:25:30 -0800, wrote:

To all the greasy folks here,
About 7 years ago I took apart my dividing head to make some
changes.
I completely degreased all the parts. When re-assembling the thing
I
used white lithium grease on all the parts that needed grease.
Lately
the rotating parts have become very stiff, as if the brake was on.
I
took it apart today and discovered that the white grease had turned
into green glue. But only on the steel worm and bronze worm gear.
The
all steel tapered roller bearings at both ends still have grease
that
works and looks like grease is supposed to. It appears that there
is
some kind of chemical reaction happening between the grease and the
bronze gear. Anybody here know anything about this?
Thanks,
Eric

Some sulfur containing EP additives are not compatible with copper
bearing alloys. It's a common concern with gear oils. I've never
heard
of an issue with grease, but if the grease was made from oil with
non-compatible additives...
Greetings Ned,
I tried to find out what kind of oil is used in the white grease I
have and have had no luck. But I'm thinking you must be correct
about
the sulfur, even though the grease is not described as having any EP
additives. Based on your post I am going to make sure that any
greases
I use in the future on bronze mechanisms do not contain sulfur or
any
other additives that can harm bronze. The grease in contact not only
became a substance similar to thick glue parts of it turned into
almost a solid. And conventional solvents used to dissolve greases
had
no effect I could see on the morphed grease when I cleaned it all
out.
Eric

http://www.machinerylubrication.com/...ur-ep-gear-oil
"Sulfurized mineral oil will readily stain copper under the conditions
of the Copper Corrosion Test (ASTM D130), which uses a copper test
strip, submerged in the test oil at 100°C for three hours as an
indication of chemical reactivity to yellow metals."

Also search for the Copper Mirror test.
-jsw

On 2017-02-16, wrote:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 18:15:13 -0500, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 14:25:30 -0800, wrote:

To all the greasy folks here,
About 7 years ago I took apart my dividing head to make some changes.
I completely degreased all the parts. When re-assembling the thing I
used white lithium grease on all the parts that needed grease. Lately
the rotating parts have become very stiff, as if the brake was on. I
took it apart today and discovered that the white grease had turned
into green glue. But only on the steel worm and bronze worm gear. The

[ ... ]

Some sulfur containing EP additives are not compatible with copper
bearing alloys. It's a common concern with gear oils. I've never heard
of an issue with grease, but if the grease was made from oil with
non-compatible additives...

Hmm ... perhaps it forms a sulfuric acid under pressure and
load?

Greetings Ned,
I tried to find out what kind of oil is used in the white grease I
have and have had no luck. But I'm thinking you must be correct about
the sulfur, even though the grease is not described as having any EP
additives.

Can you try some PH paper on the remains to see whether it is
somewhat acidic?

Based on your post I am going to make sure that any greases
I use in the future on bronze mechanisms do not contain sulfur or any
other additives that can harm bronze. The grease in contact not only
became a substance similar to thick glue parts of it turned into
almost a solid. And conventional solvents used to dissolve greases had
no effect I could see on the morphed grease when I cleaned it all out.
Eric

Hmm .... what about Molybdnium DiSulfide grease? I suspect that
it would work well with copper-bearing metals such as the worm gear.
(Unless someone else knows differently.) At least check with the makers
to see whether they know of any such problems.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 17 Feb 2017 03:23:41 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2017-02-16, wrote:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 18:15:13 -0500, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 14:25:30 -0800, wrote:

To all the greasy folks here,
About 7 years ago I took apart my dividing head to make some changes.
I completely degreased all the parts. When re-assembling the thing I
used white lithium grease on all the parts that needed grease. Lately
the rotating parts have become very stiff, as if the brake was on. I
took it apart today and discovered that the white grease had turned
into green glue. But only on the steel worm and bronze worm gear. The

[ ... ]

Some sulfur containing EP additives are not compatible with copper
bearing alloys. It's a common concern with gear oils. I've never heard
of an issue with grease, but if the grease was made from oil with
non-compatible additives...

Hmm ... perhaps it forms a sulfuric acid under pressure and
load?

Greetings Ned,
I tried to find out what kind of oil is used in the white grease I
have and have had no luck. But I'm thinking you must be correct about
the sulfur, even though the grease is not described as having any EP
additives.

Can you try some PH paper on the remains to see whether it is
somewhat acidic?

Based on your post I am going to make sure that any greases
I use in the future on bronze mechanisms do not contain sulfur or any
other additives that can harm bronze. The grease in contact not only
became a substance similar to thick glue parts of it turned into
almost a solid. And conventional solvents used to dissolve greases had
no effect I could see on the morphed grease when I cleaned it all out.
Eric

Hmm .... what about Molybdnium DiSulfide grease? I suspect that
it would work well with copper-bearing metals such as the worm gear.
(Unless someone else knows differently.) At least check with the makers
to see whether they know of any such problems.

Good Luck,
DoN.
Anything with sulphur or chlorine will attack bronze..

I think I'd be looking at something like SKIL 80111 heavy duty worm
gear saw lubricant - made expressly for bronze gears and extreme high
pressure. 8 ounces is about $12. I bough a tube for my old 825. It is
technically an oil, not a grease.
Personally I have very little use for the typical white lithium
grease,(like LubriPlate)

On Thursday, February 16, 2017 at 11:38:12 PM UTC-5, Clare wrote:
On 17 Feb 2017 03:23:41 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2017-02-16, wrote:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 18:15:13 -0500, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 14:25:30 -0800, wrote:

To all the greasy folks here,
About 7 years ago I took apart my dividing head to make some changes.
I completely degreased all the parts. When re-assembling the thing I
used white lithium grease on all the parts that needed grease. Lately
the rotating parts have become very stiff, as if the brake was on. I
took it apart today and discovered that the white grease had turned
into green glue. But only on the steel worm and bronze worm gear. The

[ ... ]

Some sulfur containing EP additives are not compatible with copper
bearing alloys. It's a common concern with gear oils. I've never heard
of an issue with grease, but if the grease was made from oil with
non-compatible additives...

Hmm ... perhaps it forms a sulfuric acid under pressure and
load?

Greetings Ned,
I tried to find out what kind of oil is used in the white grease I
have and have had no luck. But I'm thinking you must be correct about
the sulfur, even though the grease is not described as having any EP
additives.

Can you try some PH paper on the remains to see whether it is
somewhat acidic?

Based on your post I am going to make sure that any greases
I use in the future on bronze mechanisms do not contain sulfur or any
other additives that can harm bronze. The grease in contact not only
became a substance similar to thick glue parts of it turned into
almost a solid. And conventional solvents used to dissolve greases had
no effect I could see on the morphed grease when I cleaned it all out.
Eric

Hmm .... what about Molybdnium DiSulfide grease? I suspect that
it would work well with copper-bearing metals such as the worm gear.
(Unless someone else knows differently.) At least check with the makers
to see whether they know of any such problems.

Good Luck,
DoN.
Anything with sulphur or chlorine will attack bronze..

Damn, not cool. They actually sell bronze sink fixtures, too.

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 23:38:09 -0500, wrote:

On 17 Feb 2017 03:23:41 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2017-02-16, wrote:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 18:15:13 -0500, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 14:25:30 -0800, wrote:

To all the greasy folks here,
About 7 years ago I took apart my dividing head to make some changes.
I completely degreased all the parts. When re-assembling the thing I
used white lithium grease on all the parts that needed grease. Lately
the rotating parts have become very stiff, as if the brake was on. I
took it apart today and discovered that the white grease had turned
into green glue. But only on the steel worm and bronze worm gear. The

[ ... ]

Some sulfur containing EP additives are not compatible with copper
bearing alloys. It's a common concern with gear oils. I've never heard
of an issue with grease, but if the grease was made from oil with
non-compatible additives...

Hmm ... perhaps it forms a sulfuric acid under pressure and
load?

Greetings Ned,
I tried to find out what kind of oil is used in the white grease I
have and have had no luck. But I'm thinking you must be correct about
the sulfur, even though the grease is not described as having any EP
additives.

Can you try some PH paper on the remains to see whether it is
somewhat acidic?

Based on your post I am going to make sure that any greases
I use in the future on bronze mechanisms do not contain sulfur or any
other additives that can harm bronze. The grease in contact not only
became a substance similar to thick glue parts of it turned into
almost a solid. And conventional solvents used to dissolve greases had
no effect I could see on the morphed grease when I cleaned it all out.
Eric

Hmm .... what about Molybdnium DiSulfide grease? I suspect that
it would work well with copper-bearing metals such as the worm gear.
(Unless someone else knows differently.) At least check with the makers
to see whether they know of any such problems.

Good Luck,
DoN.
Anything with sulphur or chlorine will attack bronze..

I think I'd be looking at something like SKIL 80111 heavy duty worm
gear saw lubricant - made expressly for bronze gears and extreme high
pressure. 8 ounces is about $12. I bough a tube for my old 825. It is
technically an oil, not a grease.
Personally I have very little use for the typical white lithium
grease,(like LubriPlate)
I've already reassembled the dividing head with some other grease that
doesn't have any EP additives, I needed it to finish a job. But I am
going to look into bronze worm gear specific greases because I have
two other devices with some bronze gearing. That Skil 8011 stuff, does
it stick like gease? Is it as thick as grease? The dividing head
doesn't have a sealed reservoir, the grease just sticks to the works
and doesn't drip off.
Eric

On Sat, 18 Feb 2017 09:33:43 -0800, wrote:

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 23:38:09 -0500, wrote:

On 17 Feb 2017 03:23:41 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2017-02-16, wrote:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 18:15:13 -0500, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 14:25:30 -0800, wrote:

To all the greasy folks here,
About 7 years ago I took apart my dividing head to make some changes.
I completely degreased all the parts. When re-assembling the thing I
used white lithium grease on all the parts that needed grease. Lately
the rotating parts have become very stiff, as if the brake was on. I
took it apart today and discovered that the white grease had turned
into green glue. But only on the steel worm and bronze worm gear. The

[ ... ]

Some sulfur containing EP additives are not compatible with copper
bearing alloys. It's a common concern with gear oils. I've never heard
of an issue with grease, but if the grease was made from oil with
non-compatible additives...

Hmm ... perhaps it forms a sulfuric acid under pressure and
load?

Greetings Ned,
I tried to find out what kind of oil is used in the white grease I
have and have had no luck. But I'm thinking you must be correct about
the sulfur, even though the grease is not described as having any EP
additives.

Can you try some PH paper on the remains to see whether it is
somewhat acidic?

Based on your post I am going to make sure that any greases
I use in the future on bronze mechanisms do not contain sulfur or any
other additives that can harm bronze. The grease in contact not only
became a substance similar to thick glue parts of it turned into
almost a solid. And conventional solvents used to dissolve greases had
no effect I could see on the morphed grease when I cleaned it all out.
Eric

Hmm .... what about Molybdnium DiSulfide grease? I suspect that
it would work well with copper-bearing metals such as the worm gear.
(Unless someone else knows differently.) At least check with the makers
to see whether they know of any such problems.

Good Luck,
DoN.
Anything with sulphur or chlorine will attack bronze..

I think I'd be looking at something like SKIL 80111 heavy duty worm
gear saw lubricant - made expressly for bronze gears and extreme high
pressure. 8 ounces is about $12. I bough a tube for my old 825. It is
technically an oil, not a grease.
Personally I have very little use for the typical white lithium
grease,(like LubriPlate)
I've already reassembled the dividing head with some other grease that
doesn't have any EP additives, I needed it to finish a job. But I am
going to look into bronze worm gear specific greases because I have
two other devices with some bronze gearing. That Skil 8011 stuff, does
it stick like gease? Is it as thick as grease? The dividing head
doesn't have a sealed reservoir, the grease just sticks to the works
and doesn't drip off.
Eric
No, it's closer in consistency to EP140 Hypoid oil

On Sat, 18 Feb 2017 17:40:56 -0500, wrote:

On Sat, 18 Feb 2017 09:33:43 -0800, wrote:

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 23:38:09 -0500, wrote:

On 17 Feb 2017 03:23:41 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2017-02-16, wrote:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 18:15:13 -0500, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 14:25:30 -0800, wrote:

To all the greasy folks here,
About 7 years ago I took apart my dividing head to make some changes.
I completely degreased all the parts. When re-assembling the thing I
used white lithium grease on all the parts that needed grease. Lately
the rotating parts have become very stiff, as if the brake was on. I
took it apart today and discovered that the white grease had turned
into green glue. But only on the steel worm and bronze worm gear. The

[ ... ]

Some sulfur containing EP additives are not compatible with copper
bearing alloys. It's a common concern with gear oils. I've never heard
of an issue with grease, but if the grease was made from oil with
non-compatible additives...

Hmm ... perhaps it forms a sulfuric acid under pressure and
load?

Greetings Ned,
I tried to find out what kind of oil is used in the white grease I
have and have had no luck. But I'm thinking you must be correct about
the sulfur, even though the grease is not described as having any EP
additives.

Can you try some PH paper on the remains to see whether it is
somewhat acidic?

Based on your post I am going to make sure that any greases
I use in the future on bronze mechanisms do not contain sulfur or any
other additives that can harm bronze. The grease in contact not only
became a substance similar to thick glue parts of it turned into
almost a solid. And conventional solvents used to dissolve greases had
no effect I could see on the morphed grease when I cleaned it all out.
Eric

Hmm .... what about Molybdnium DiSulfide grease? I suspect that
it would work well with copper-bearing metals such as the worm gear.
(Unless someone else knows differently.) At least check with the makers
to see whether they know of any such problems.

Good Luck,
DoN.
Anything with sulphur or chlorine will attack bronze..

I think I'd be looking at something like SKIL 80111 heavy duty worm
gear saw lubricant - made expressly for bronze gears and extreme high
pressure. 8 ounces is about $12. I bough a tube for my old 825. It is
technically an oil, not a grease.
Personally I have very little use for the typical white lithium
grease,(like LubriPlate)
I've already reassembled the dividing head with some other grease that
doesn't have any EP additives, I needed it to finish a job. But I am
going to look into bronze worm gear specific greases because I have
two other devices with some bronze gearing. That Skil 8011 stuff, does
it stick like gease? Is it as thick as grease? The dividing head
doesn't have a sealed reservoir, the grease just sticks to the works
and doesn't drip off.
Eric
No, it's closer in consistency to EP140 Hypoid oil

Ye gods, I'd rather smell rotting fish than hypoid gear lube.
Hate that stench.

--
In order to become the master, the politician poses as the servant.
--Charles de Gaulle