Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Old February 12th 17, 11:25 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default What the hell is going on with this grease?

To all the greasy folks here,
About 7 years ago I took apart my dividing head to make some changes.
I completely degreased all the parts. When re-assembling the thing I
used white lithium grease on all the parts that needed grease. Lately
the rotating parts have become very stiff, as if the brake was on. I
took it apart today and discovered that the white grease had turned
into green glue. But only on the steel worm and bronze worm gear. The
all steel tapered roller bearings at both ends still have grease that
works and looks like grease is supposed to. It appears that there is
some kind of chemical reaction happening between the grease and the
bronze gear. Anybody here know anything about this?
Thanks,
Eric

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Old February 13th 17, 12:24 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default What the hell is going on with this grease?

On Sunday, February 12, 2017 at 6:15:09 PM UTC-5, Ned Simmons wrote:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 14:25:30 -0800, wrote:

To all the greasy folks here,
About 7 years ago I took apart my dividing head to make some changes.
I completely degreased all the parts. When re-assembling the thing I
used white lithium grease on all the parts that needed grease. Lately
the rotating parts have become very stiff, as if the brake was on. I
took it apart today and discovered that the white grease had turned
into green glue. But only on the steel worm and bronze worm gear. The
all steel tapered roller bearings at both ends still have grease that
works and looks like grease is supposed to. It appears that there is
some kind of chemical reaction happening between the grease and the
bronze gear. Anybody here know anything about this?
Thanks,
Eric


Some sulfur containing EP additives are not compatible with copper
bearing alloys. It's a common concern with gear oils. I've never heard
of an issue with grease, but if the grease was made from oil with
non-compatible additives...

--
Ned Simmons


This reminds me of a warning in a repair manual for old Jaguars, at least the early, 6-cyl. E-type: They had bronze ring gears and they had a note about which lubricants were compatible and incompatible.

My '57 Alfa Romeo Guilietta had a bronze distributor drive gear. I don't remember any specific warnings, but they were explicit about oil grades, including all of the letter designations that came after the weight.

(In '58, Alfa switched to steel gears.)

--
Ed Huntress
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Old February 16th 17, 08:37 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default What the hell is going on with this grease?

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 18:15:13 -0500, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 14:25:30 -0800, wrote:

To all the greasy folks here,
About 7 years ago I took apart my dividing head to make some changes.
I completely degreased all the parts. When re-assembling the thing I
used white lithium grease on all the parts that needed grease. Lately
the rotating parts have become very stiff, as if the brake was on. I
took it apart today and discovered that the white grease had turned
into green glue. But only on the steel worm and bronze worm gear. The
all steel tapered roller bearings at both ends still have grease that
works and looks like grease is supposed to. It appears that there is
some kind of chemical reaction happening between the grease and the
bronze gear. Anybody here know anything about this?
Thanks,
Eric


Some sulfur containing EP additives are not compatible with copper
bearing alloys. It's a common concern with gear oils. I've never heard
of an issue with grease, but if the grease was made from oil with
non-compatible additives...

Greetings Ned,
I tried to find out what kind of oil is used in the white grease I
have and have had no luck. But I'm thinking you must be correct about
the sulfur, even though the grease is not described as having any EP
additives. Based on your post I am going to make sure that any greases
I use in the future on bronze mechanisms do not contain sulfur or any
other additives that can harm bronze. The grease in contact not only
became a substance similar to thick glue parts of it turned into
almost a solid. And conventional solvents used to dissolve greases had
no effect I could see on the morphed grease when I cleaned it all out.
Eric


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Old February 16th 17, 09:26 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 4,918
Default What the hell is going on with this grease?

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 18:15:13 -0500, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 14:25:30 -0800, wrote:

To all the greasy folks here,
About 7 years ago I took apart my dividing head to make some
changes.
I completely degreased all the parts. When re-assembling the thing
I
used white lithium grease on all the parts that needed grease.
Lately
the rotating parts have become very stiff, as if the brake was on.
I
took it apart today and discovered that the white grease had turned
into green glue. But only on the steel worm and bronze worm gear.
The
all steel tapered roller bearings at both ends still have grease
that
works and looks like grease is supposed to. It appears that there
is
some kind of chemical reaction happening between the grease and the
bronze gear. Anybody here know anything about this?
Thanks,
Eric


Some sulfur containing EP additives are not compatible with copper
bearing alloys. It's a common concern with gear oils. I've never
heard
of an issue with grease, but if the grease was made from oil with
non-compatible additives...

Greetings Ned,
I tried to find out what kind of oil is used in the white grease I
have and have had no luck. But I'm thinking you must be correct
about
the sulfur, even though the grease is not described as having any EP
additives. Based on your post I am going to make sure that any
greases
I use in the future on bronze mechanisms do not contain sulfur or
any
other additives that can harm bronze. The grease in contact not only
became a substance similar to thick glue parts of it turned into
almost a solid. And conventional solvents used to dissolve greases
had
no effect I could see on the morphed grease when I cleaned it all
out.
Eric


http://www.machinerylubrication.com/...ur-ep-gear-oil
"Sulfurized mineral oil will readily stain copper under the conditions
of the Copper Corrosion Test (ASTM D130), which uses a copper test
strip, submerged in the test oil at 100C for three hours as an
indication of chemical reactivity to yellow metals."

Also search for the Copper Mirror test.
-jsw


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Old February 17th 17, 04:23 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Jul 2010
Posts: 2,514
Default What the hell is going on with this grease?

On 2017-02-16, wrote:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 18:15:13 -0500, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 14:25:30 -0800,
wrote:

To all the greasy folks here,
About 7 years ago I took apart my dividing head to make some changes.
I completely degreased all the parts. When re-assembling the thing I
used white lithium grease on all the parts that needed grease. Lately
the rotating parts have become very stiff, as if the brake was on. I
took it apart today and discovered that the white grease had turned
into green glue. But only on the steel worm and bronze worm gear. The


[ ... ]

Some sulfur containing EP additives are not compatible with copper
bearing alloys. It's a common concern with gear oils. I've never heard
of an issue with grease, but if the grease was made from oil with
non-compatible additives...


Hmm ... perhaps it forms a sulfuric acid under pressure and
load?

Greetings Ned,
I tried to find out what kind of oil is used in the white grease I
have and have had no luck. But I'm thinking you must be correct about
the sulfur, even though the grease is not described as having any EP
additives.


Can you try some PH paper on the remains to see whether it is
somewhat acidic?

Based on your post I am going to make sure that any greases
I use in the future on bronze mechanisms do not contain sulfur or any
other additives that can harm bronze. The grease in contact not only
became a substance similar to thick glue parts of it turned into
almost a solid. And conventional solvents used to dissolve greases had
no effect I could see on the morphed grease when I cleaned it all out.
Eric


Hmm .... what about Molybdnium DiSulfide grease? I suspect that
it would work well with copper-bearing metals such as the worm gear.
(Unless someone else knows differently.) At least check with the makers
to see whether they know of any such problems.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. |
http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
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Old February 17th 17, 05:38 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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First recorded activity by DIYBanter: Oct 2008
Posts: 18,574
Default What the hell is going on with this grease?

On 17 Feb 2017 03:23:41 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2017-02-16, wrote:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 18:15:13 -0500, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 14:25:30 -0800,
wrote:

To all the greasy folks here,
About 7 years ago I took apart my dividing head to make some changes.
I completely degreased all the parts. When re-assembling the thing I
used white lithium grease on all the parts that needed grease. Lately
the rotating parts have become very stiff, as if the brake was on. I
took it apart today and discovered that the white grease had turned
into green glue. But only on the steel worm and bronze worm gear. The


[ ... ]

Some sulfur containing EP additives are not compatible with copper
bearing alloys. It's a common concern with gear oils. I've never heard
of an issue with grease, but if the grease was made from oil with
non-compatible additives...


Hmm ... perhaps it forms a sulfuric acid under pressure and
load?

Greetings Ned,
I tried to find out what kind of oil is used in the white grease I
have and have had no luck. But I'm thinking you must be correct about
the sulfur, even though the grease is not described as having any EP
additives.


Can you try some PH paper on the remains to see whether it is
somewhat acidic?

Based on your post I am going to make sure that any greases
I use in the future on bronze mechanisms do not contain sulfur or any
other additives that can harm bronze. The grease in contact not only
became a substance similar to thick glue parts of it turned into
almost a solid. And conventional solvents used to dissolve greases had
no effect I could see on the morphed grease when I cleaned it all out.
Eric


Hmm .... what about Molybdnium DiSulfide grease? I suspect that
it would work well with copper-bearing metals such as the worm gear.
(Unless someone else knows differently.) At least check with the makers
to see whether they know of any such problems.

Good Luck,
DoN.

Anything with sulphur or chlorine will attack bronze..

I think I'd be looking at something like SKIL 80111 heavy duty worm
gear saw lubricant - made expressly for bronze gears and extreme high
pressure. 8 ounces is about $12. I bough a tube for my old 825. It is
technically an oil, not a grease.
Personally I have very little use for the typical white lithium
grease,(like LubriPlate)
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Old February 18th 17, 05:09 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 880
Default What the hell is going on with this grease?

On Thursday, February 16, 2017 at 11:38:12 PM UTC-5, Clare wrote:
On 17 Feb 2017 03:23:41 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2017-02-16, wrote:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 18:15:13 -0500, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 14:25:30 -0800,
wrote:

To all the greasy folks here,
About 7 years ago I took apart my dividing head to make some changes.
I completely degreased all the parts. When re-assembling the thing I
used white lithium grease on all the parts that needed grease. Lately
the rotating parts have become very stiff, as if the brake was on. I
took it apart today and discovered that the white grease had turned
into green glue. But only on the steel worm and bronze worm gear. The


[ ... ]

Some sulfur containing EP additives are not compatible with copper
bearing alloys. It's a common concern with gear oils. I've never heard
of an issue with grease, but if the grease was made from oil with
non-compatible additives...


Hmm ... perhaps it forms a sulfuric acid under pressure and
load?

Greetings Ned,
I tried to find out what kind of oil is used in the white grease I
have and have had no luck. But I'm thinking you must be correct about
the sulfur, even though the grease is not described as having any EP
additives.


Can you try some PH paper on the remains to see whether it is
somewhat acidic?

Based on your post I am going to make sure that any greases
I use in the future on bronze mechanisms do not contain sulfur or any
other additives that can harm bronze. The grease in contact not only
became a substance similar to thick glue parts of it turned into
almost a solid. And conventional solvents used to dissolve greases had
no effect I could see on the morphed grease when I cleaned it all out.
Eric


Hmm .... what about Molybdnium DiSulfide grease? I suspect that
it would work well with copper-bearing metals such as the worm gear.
(Unless someone else knows differently.) At least check with the makers
to see whether they know of any such problems.

Good Luck,
DoN.

Anything with sulphur or chlorine will attack bronze..


Damn, not cool. They actually sell bronze sink fixtures, too.
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Old February 18th 17, 06:33 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 1,748
Default What the hell is going on with this grease?

On Thu, 16 Feb 2017 23:38:09 -0500, wrote:

On 17 Feb 2017 03:23:41 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2017-02-16,
wrote:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 18:15:13 -0500, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Sun, 12 Feb 2017 14:25:30 -0800,
wrote:

To all the greasy folks here,
About 7 years ago I took apart my dividing head to make some changes.
I completely degreased all the parts. When re-assembling the thing I
used white lithium grease on all the parts that needed grease. Lately
the rotating parts have become very stiff, as if the brake was on. I
took it apart today and discovered that the white grease had turned
into green glue. But only on the steel worm and bronze worm gear. The


[ ... ]

Some sulfur containing EP additives are not compatible with copper
bearing alloys. It's a common concern with gear oils. I've never heard
of an issue with grease, but if the grease was made from oil with
non-compatible additives...


Hmm ... perhaps it forms a sulfuric acid under pressure and
load?

Greetings Ned,
I tried to find out what kind of oil is used in the white grease I
have and have had no luck. But I'm thinking you must be correct about
the sulfur, even though the grease is not described as having any EP
additives.


Can you try some PH paper on the remains to see whether it is
somewhat acidic?

Based on your post I am going to make sure that any greases
I use in the future on bronze mechanisms do not contain sulfur or any
other additives that can harm bronze. The grease in contact not only
became a substance similar to thick glue parts of it turned into
almost a solid. And conventional solvents used to dissolve greases had
no effect I could see on the morphed grease when I cleaned it all out.
Eric


Hmm .... what about Molybdnium DiSulfide grease? I suspect that
it would work well with copper-bearing metals such as the worm gear.
(Unless someone else knows differently.) At least check with the makers
to see whether they know of any such problems.

Good Luck,
DoN.

Anything with sulphur or chlorine will attack bronze..

I think I'd be looking at something like SKIL 80111 heavy duty worm
gear saw lubricant - made expressly for bronze gears and extreme high
pressure. 8 ounces is about $12. I bough a tube for my old 825. It is
technically an oil, not a grease.
Personally I have very little use for the typical white lithium
grease,(like LubriPlate)

I've already reassembled the dividing head with some other grease that
doesn't have any EP additives, I needed it to finish a job. But I am
going to look into bronze worm gear specific greases because I have
two other devices with some bronze gearing. That Skil 8011 stuff, does
it stick like gease? Is it as thick as grease? The dividing head
doesn't have a sealed reservoir, the grease just sticks to the works
and doesn't drip off.
Eric


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