Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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On Wednesday, November 9, 2016 at 9:46:23 AM UTC-5, Michael Terrell wrote:
Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...
...
I used the Brady printed labels, and covered them with clear heat
shrink.
...


When I made cable harnesses for the batch of electric cars [the
customer] paid to have us label each wire with printed heatshrink
labels:
https://www.brother-usa.com/mobile/l...able_wire.aspx

I've used a fine Sharpie on paper labels for home projects but the
writing diffuses and fades under clear adhesive tape.



I switched to clear heatshrink, before the mid '80s. I was using it
on my shop cables, to stop people from claiming that they had brought
cables with equipment, when they didn't. I would type on address labels,
then trim and wrap them on the cable before applying the heatshrink
tubing. The labels had a description, and the date that they were made.


--
Never **** off an Engineer!

They don't get mad.

They don't get even.

They go for over unity! ;-)


You wouldn't be using that in Bell System (Verizon) central offices. You would fail inspection. According to Bellcore standards, ALL cables must be labeled at each end with flag-type labels which can be read from any direction without disconnecting the cable. I spend a few years designing and supervising the installation of colocation equipment for AT&T. I watched as two cages full of equipment were relabeled at one site.

Good idea? Maybe, maybe not. But it's their building, and if you're gonna put your stuff in it, it has to follow their rules.

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"rangerssuck" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, November 9, 2016 at 9:46:23 AM UTC-5, Michael Terrell
wrote:
Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...
...
I used the Brady printed labels, and covered them with clear
heat
shrink.
...


When I made cable harnesses for the batch of electric cars [the
customer] paid to have us label each wire with printed heatshrink
labels:
https://www.brother-usa.com/mobile/l...able_wire.aspx

I've used a fine Sharpie on paper labels for home projects but the
writing diffuses and fades under clear adhesive tape.



I switched to clear heatshrink, before the mid '80s. I was using
it
on my shop cables, to stop people from claiming that they had
brought
cables with equipment, when they didn't. I would type on address
labels,
then trim and wrap them on the cable before applying the heatshrink
tubing. The labels had a description, and the date that they were
made.


You wouldn't be using that in Bell System (Verizon) central offices.
You would fail inspection. According to Bellcore standards, ALL cables
must be labeled at each end with flag-type labels which can be read
from any direction without disconnecting the cable. I spend a few
years designing and supervising the installation of colocation
equipment for AT&T. I watched as two cages full of equipment were
relabeled at one site.

Good idea? Maybe, maybe not. But it's their building, and if you're
gonna put your stuff in it, it has to follow their rules.
===============================

I never designed or built equipment that had to operate 24/7 for 20
years like theirs. Mine was more likely to be modified within a few
years to follow changing requirements. Every connection was supposed
to have enough slack in the wire to be cut off, stripped and
resoldered or crimped three times.
--jsw


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On Wednesday, November 9, 2016 at 1:04:17 PM UTC-5, Jim Wilkins wrote:
"rangerssuck" wrote in message
...
On Wednesday, November 9, 2016 at 9:46:23 AM UTC-5, Michael Terrell
wrote:
Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...
...
I used the Brady printed labels, and covered them with clear
heat
shrink.
...

When I made cable harnesses for the batch of electric cars [the
customer] paid to have us label each wire with printed heatshrink
labels:
https://www.brother-usa.com/mobile/l...able_wire.aspx

I've used a fine Sharpie on paper labels for home projects but the
writing diffuses and fades under clear adhesive tape.



I switched to clear heatshrink, before the mid '80s. I was using
it
on my shop cables, to stop people from claiming that they had
brought
cables with equipment, when they didn't. I would type on address
labels,
then trim and wrap them on the cable before applying the heatshrink
tubing. The labels had a description, and the date that they were
made.


You wouldn't be using that in Bell System (Verizon) central offices.
You would fail inspection. According to Bellcore standards, ALL cables
must be labeled at each end with flag-type labels which can be read
from any direction without disconnecting the cable. I spend a few
years designing and supervising the installation of colocation
equipment for AT&T. I watched as two cages full of equipment were
relabeled at one site.

Good idea? Maybe, maybe not. But it's their building, and if you're
gonna put your stuff in it, it has to follow their rules.
===============================

I never designed or built equipment that had to operate 24/7 for 20
years like theirs. Mine was more likely to be modified within a few
years to follow changing requirements. Every connection was supposed
to have enough slack in the wire to be cut off, stripped and
resoldered or crimped three times.
--jsw


All that said, these are pretty nice and make for a clean installation. https://goo.gl/q2RiJo They have a write-on (or laser / inkjet print) area, then you peel them off the carrier, wrap the printed part around the wire, and continue wrapping the clear part around the print. They call it self-laminating.

Advantage of the shrink stuff is you don't need a special printer, you can do these in your regular office printer. You also don't need to shrink them, and can apply them after the cable is connected.

You can also apply them as flags - just don't wrap the printed part around the wire - fold it over instead.
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rangerssuck wrote:
On Wednesday, November 9, 2016 at 9:46:23 AM UTC-5, Michael Terrell wrote:
Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...
...
I used the Brady printed labels, and covered them with clear heat
shrink.
...

When I made cable harnesses for the batch of electric cars [the
customer] paid to have us label each wire with printed heatshrink
labels:
https://www.brother-usa.com/mobile/l...able_wire.aspx

I've used a fine Sharpie on paper labels for home projects but the
writing diffuses and fades under clear adhesive tape.



I switched to clear heatshrink, before the mid '80s. I was using it
on my shop cables, to stop people from claiming that they had brought
cables with equipment, when they didn't. I would type on address labels,
then trim and wrap them on the cable before applying the heatshrink
tubing. The labels had a description, and the date that they were made.


--
Never **** off an Engineer!

They don't get mad.

They don't get even.

They go for over unity! ;-)


You wouldn't be using that in Bell System (Verizon) central offices. You would fail inspection. According to Bellcore standards, ALL cables must be labeled at each end with flag-type labels which can be read from any direction without disconnecting the cable. I spend a few years designing and supervising the installation of colocation equipment for AT&T. I watched as two cages full of equipment were relabeled at one site.

Good idea? Maybe, maybe not. But it's their building, and if you're gonna put your stuff in it, it has to follow their rules.


ILEC telco folks seem to do the best wiring and labelling. It's union work
here, so nobody is in a hurry and there's no incentive to cut corners and
save money. There's no next billable job to move onto. Notice I said ILEC
though. There are lots of contractors involved on the phone network these
days and as you shift to the data side of stuff, things get uglier in
practive.
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rangerssuck wrote:

You wouldn't be using that in Bell System (Verizon) central offices. You would fail inspection. According to Bellcore standards, ALL cables must be labeled at each end with flag-type labels which can be read from any direction without disconnecting the cable. I spend a few years designing and supervising the installation of colocation equipment for AT&T. I watched as two cages full of equipment were relabeled at one site.

Good idea? Maybe, maybe not. But it's their building, and if you're gonna put your stuff in it, it has to follow their rules.




I have been in several Central Offices, but I never worked for any
telephone company.


--
Never **** off an Engineer!

They don't get mad.

They don't get even.

They go for over unity! ;-)


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Jim Wilkins wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

I switched to clear heatshrink, before the mid '80s. I was using
it on my shop cables, to stop people from claiming that they had
brought cables with equipment, when they didn't. I would type on
address labels, then trim and wrap them on the cable before applying
the heatshrink tubing. The labels had a description, and the date
that they were made.


Clear heatshrink is fine when you are making the cable but not so easy
afterward, or to add to commercial cables with molded connectors.



All of my test cables were custom made, with Belden wire, and
Switchcraft connectors. They were made to last decades, not weeks.


I've used these but they snag and not everyone can do
draftsman-quality lettering.
http://www.tiewraps.com/idtagtw_flag_page.html



I've got some of the flag ties, but I don't like them. They get
caught on tools and equipment on the workbenches.


--
Never **** off an Engineer!

They don't get mad.

They don't get even.

They go for over unity! ;-)
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On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 08:46:05 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
Did you wear out a number-style label maker? I hated old Mercenary's
Bends (IIRC) repairs because of the numbered wires. Man, that was a
crispy old memory. Crap like this:
http://www.linkbelt.com/lit/images/p...ive_Wiring.jpg


I used the Brady printed labels, and covered them with clear heat
shrink.


I see. The expensive, time-consuming, and proper way.


Our military used the same method long ago.

And I remember cringing as a kid, when I saw the phone repairman with
the big fat bundle of tiny wires all splayed out.



The new FAA building at Ft Rucker, Al. had a phone room on each
floor, with 1200 pairs, and walls covered with 66 blocks. That was over
40 years ago. 20 years later, they would have needed under 100 pair,
each with a SLIC for up to 16 lines.


You must be a very patient guy, Mikey.


The color coding was easy to learn.


Easier than resistor color codes?


I repaired a lot of 1A2 phone
systems. I still have a few hundred feet of 25 pair cable, somewhere
around here.


Consider selling it as ANTIQUE. You'll be rich!

--
If government were a product,
selling it would be illegal.
--P.J. O'Rourke
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On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 15:47:35 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Jim Wilkins wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

I switched to clear heatshrink, before the mid '80s. I was using
it on my shop cables, to stop people from claiming that they had
brought cables with equipment, when they didn't. I would type on
address labels, then trim and wrap them on the cable before applying
the heatshrink tubing. The labels had a description, and the date
that they were made.


Clear heatshrink is fine when you are making the cable but not so easy
afterward, or to add to commercial cables with molded connectors.



All of my test cables were custom made, with Belden wire, and
Switchcraft connectors. They were made to last decades, not weeks.


I've used these but they snag and not everyone can do
draftsman-quality lettering.
http://www.tiewraps.com/idtagtw_flag_page.html



I've got some of the flag ties, but I don't like them. They get
caught on tools and equipment on the workbenches.


I've used some of those and they're truly a PITA.

--
If government were a product,
selling it would be illegal.
--P.J. O'Rourke
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Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 08:46:05 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
Did you wear out a number-style label maker? I hated old Mercenary's
Bends (IIRC) repairs because of the numbered wires. Man, that was a
crispy old memory. Crap like this:
http://www.linkbelt.com/lit/images/p...ive_Wiring.jpg


I used the Brady printed labels, and covered them with clear heat
shrink.


I see. The expensive, time-consuming, and proper way.



My way, or no way!


Our military used the same method long ago.

And I remember cringing as a kid, when I saw the phone repairman with
the big fat bundle of tiny wires all splayed out.



The new FAA building at Ft Rucker, Al. had a phone room on each
floor, with 1200 pairs, and walls covered with 66 blocks. That was over
40 years ago. 20 years later, they would have needed under 100 pair,
each with a SLIC for up to 16 lines.


You must be a very patient guy, Mikey.



That wasn't my job, but I was working at the site. We had to
provide a connection to the Weathervision system, to the FAA building.


The color coding was easy to learn.


Easier than resistor color codes?



Ten colors, in two groups of five. That gives 25 pairs. The stripes
are not the same width, so it is quite easy to pick up.


I repaired a lot of 1A2 phone
systems. I still have a few hundred feet of 25 pair cable, somewhere
around here.


Consider selling it as ANTIQUE. You'll be rich!



How about some, new in the box 400E KTU line cards? Or a few
subcycle power supplies?


--
Never **** off an Engineer!

They don't get mad.

They don't get even.

They go for over unity! ;-)
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On Wed, 09 Nov 2016 15:41:36 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 08:46:05 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
Did you wear out a number-style label maker? I hated old Mercenary's
Bends (IIRC) repairs because of the numbered wires. Man, that was a
crispy old memory. Crap like this:
http://www.linkbelt.com/lit/images/p...ive_Wiring.jpg


I used the Brady printed labels, and covered them with clear heat
shrink.


I see. The expensive, time-consuming, and proper way.


Our military used the same method long ago.

And I remember cringing as a kid, when I saw the phone repairman with
the big fat bundle of tiny wires all splayed out.



The new FAA building at Ft Rucker, Al. had a phone room on each
floor, with 1200 pairs, and walls covered with 66 blocks. That was over
40 years ago. 20 years later, they would have needed under 100 pair,
each with a SLIC for up to 16 lines.


You must be a very patient guy, Mikey.


The color coding was easy to learn.


Easier than resistor color codes?


I repaired a lot of 1A2 phone
systems. I still have a few hundred feet of 25 pair cable, somewhere
around here.


Consider selling it as ANTIQUE. You'll be rich!


Ive got at least 1 500 foot roll of 25 pair...maybe 2


---
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https://www.avast.com/antivirus



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On Sat, 12 Nov 2016 05:23:55 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 08:46:05 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
Did you wear out a number-style label maker? I hated old Mercenary's
Bends (IIRC) repairs because of the numbered wires. Man, that was a
crispy old memory. Crap like this:
http://www.linkbelt.com/lit/images/p...ive_Wiring.jpg

I used the Brady printed labels, and covered them with clear heat
shrink.


I see. The expensive, time-consuming, and proper way.



My way, or no way!


Our military used the same method long ago.

And I remember cringing as a kid, when I saw the phone repairman with
the big fat bundle of tiny wires all splayed out.


The new FAA building at Ft Rucker, Al. had a phone room on each
floor, with 1200 pairs, and walls covered with 66 blocks. That was over
40 years ago. 20 years later, they would have needed under 100 pair,
each with a SLIC for up to 16 lines.


You must be a very patient guy, Mikey.



That wasn't my job, but I was working at the site. We had to
provide a connection to the Weathervision system, to the FAA building.


The color coding was easy to learn.


Easier than resistor color codes?



Ten colors, in two groups of five. That gives 25 pairs. The stripes
are not the same width, so it is quite easy to pick up.


Yeah, prolly so.


I repaired a lot of 1A2 phone
systems. I still have a few hundred feet of 25 pair cable, somewhere
around here.


Consider selling it as ANTIQUE. You'll be rich!



How about some, new in the box 400E KTU line cards? Or a few
subcycle power supplies?


Hey, some guy is selling old drive-in theater speaker poles with
speakers for $250 on Craigslist. Who knows what will sell? List it
and see.

--
If government were a product,
selling it would be illegal.
--P.J. O'Rourke
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On Sat, 12 Nov 2016 03:46:50 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 09 Nov 2016 15:41:36 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 08:46:05 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:
I repaired a lot of 1A2 phone
systems. I still have a few hundred feet of 25 pair cable, somewhere
around here.


Consider selling it as ANTIQUE. You'll be rich!


Ive got at least 1 500 foot roll of 25 pair...maybe 2


Try to find a phone museum and sell it. You'll likely get a good
price.

--
If government were a product,
selling it would be illegal.
--P.J. O'Rourke
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On 2016-11-12, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 12 Nov 2016 05:23:55 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 08:46:05 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


[ ... ]

The new FAA building at Ft Rucker, Al. had a phone room on each
floor, with 1200 pairs, and walls covered with 66 blocks. That was over
40 years ago. 20 years later, they would have needed under 100 pair,
each with a SLIC for up to 16 lines.

You must be a very patient guy, Mikey.



That wasn't my job, but I was working at the site. We had to
provide a connection to the Weathervision system, to the FAA building.


The color coding was easy to learn.

Easier than resistor color codes?



Ten colors, in two groups of five. That gives 25 pairs. The stripes
are not the same width, so it is quite easy to pick up.


Yeah, prolly so.


Stripes, or on some telephone cables, solid color with other
color dots every half inch or so.

An example, from the start of the sequence is blue and white,
typically blue with a white stripe and white with a blue stripe as the
other half of the pair. Keep using blue through the other four pair of
that group, then increment blue to the next color and repeat the
sequence of the other color in the pairs. So each color pair identifies
both wires of the pair as belonging together.

Once you get beyond 25 pair, you wrap a 25-pair group in a pair
of colored threads and go on to the next bundle which repeats the wire
colors already used. So you can have 25 groups of 25 pair -- 625 pair
or 1250 wires. Beyond that, I presume that you get bundles of 26
bundles repeating again. But the water-proofing grease used on the
1500 Pair or larger is just too messy for me to take apart and see what
the pattern is. (Aside from the ribbed aluminum sheet wrapped around
the wires all inside the black plastic jacket.)

I repaired a lot of 1A2 phone
systems. I still have a few hundred feet of 25 pair cable, somewhere
around here.

Consider selling it as ANTIQUE. You'll be rich!



How about some, new in the box 400E KTU line cards? Or a few
subcycle power supplies?


Ah -- SubCycle -- put in 60 Hz, get out 20 Hz by some magic
inductive circuit. Used for ringing the phone bells. (Except the other
frequency bells used on some party-line systems, in addition to ringing
between one wire of the pair and earth ground. :-)

Hey, some guy is selling old drive-in theater speaker poles with
speakers for $250 on Craigslist. Who knows what will sell? List it
and see.


I've got enough of all of the above, but there are certainly
some people out there collecting them -- or using them. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
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I have some Gray laced phone cable that pre-dates plastic cover.
The wire is solid. I'd say it is a 25 pair.

I have other cables that are grey (Navy) colors - into 25 pair
connectors - as patch cables...

My wire boxes go on and on. Now 150' Cat5 Plenum in a box as well.
I love my High current - 1/2" and 1/4" '1000' strand soft copper wire. I
used it on very high current power supplies. (and short lengths on my
2-M R-C glider that I used to fly in North Ca.

One never knows when a cable or wire might be needed. Sometimes an
exotic one works just nice.

Martin

On 11/12/2016 5:46 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Wed, 09 Nov 2016 15:41:36 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 08:46:05 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
Did you wear out a number-style label maker? I hated old Mercenary's
Bends (IIRC) repairs because of the numbered wires. Man, that was a
crispy old memory. Crap like this:
http://www.linkbelt.com/lit/images/p...ive_Wiring.jpg

I used the Brady printed labels, and covered them with clear heat
shrink.


I see. The expensive, time-consuming, and proper way.


Our military used the same method long ago.

And I remember cringing as a kid, when I saw the phone repairman with
the big fat bundle of tiny wires all splayed out.


The new FAA building at Ft Rucker, Al. had a phone room on each
floor, with 1200 pairs, and walls covered with 66 blocks. That was over
40 years ago. 20 years later, they would have needed under 100 pair,
each with a SLIC for up to 16 lines.


You must be a very patient guy, Mikey.


The color coding was easy to learn.


Easier than resistor color codes?


I repaired a lot of 1A2 phone
systems. I still have a few hundred feet of 25 pair cable, somewhere
around here.


Consider selling it as ANTIQUE. You'll be rich!


Ive got at least 1 500 foot roll of 25 pair...maybe 2


---
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On 13 Nov 2016 01:13:11 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2016-11-12, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 12 Nov 2016 05:23:55 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 9 Nov 2016 08:46:05 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


[ ... ]

The new FAA building at Ft Rucker, Al. had a phone room on each
floor, with 1200 pairs, and walls covered with 66 blocks. That was over
40 years ago. 20 years later, they would have needed under 100 pair,
each with a SLIC for up to 16 lines.

You must be a very patient guy, Mikey.


That wasn't my job, but I was working at the site. We had to
provide a connection to the Weathervision system, to the FAA building.


The color coding was easy to learn.

Easier than resistor color codes?


Ten colors, in two groups of five. That gives 25 pairs. The stripes
are not the same width, so it is quite easy to pick up.


Yeah, prolly so.


Stripes, or on some telephone cables, solid color with other
color dots every half inch or so.


I used to repair the frayed looms on US and Euro cars after accidents,
where a replacement wire loom was deemed too expensive. I remember
seeing some solid color cables with dots, but I don't recall the
brand. Mercedes often used same color wire with varied color stripes
way back.


An example, from the start of the sequence is blue and white,
typically blue with a white stripe and white with a blue stripe as the
other half of the pair. Keep using blue through the other four pair of
that group, then increment blue to the next color and repeat the
sequence of the other color in the pairs. So each color pair identifies
both wires of the pair as belonging together.


I'm sure that helps immensely when you're faced with 50-500 wires in a
group.


Once you get beyond 25 pair, you wrap a 25-pair group in a pair
of colored threads and go on to the next bundle which repeats the wire
colors already used. So you can have 25 groups of 25 pair -- 625 pair
or 1250 wires. Beyond that, I presume that you get bundles of 26
bundles repeating again. But the water-proofing grease used on the
1500 Pair or larger is just too messy for me to take apart and see what
the pattern is. (Aside from the ribbed aluminum sheet wrapped around
the wires all inside the black plastic jacket.)


Grok that. Ick!


I repaired a lot of 1A2 phone
systems. I still have a few hundred feet of 25 pair cable, somewhere
around here.

Consider selling it as ANTIQUE. You'll be rich!


How about some, new in the box 400E KTU line cards? Or a few
subcycle power supplies?


Ah -- SubCycle -- put in 60 Hz, get out 20 Hz by some magic
inductive circuit. Used for ringing the phone bells. (Except the other
frequency bells used on some party-line systems, in addition to ringing
between one wire of the pair and earth ground. :-)


I was playing with the phone line wires once when a call came in.
Yeouch! Weren't those 90vac@20Hz? Surprised me.


Hey, some guy is selling old drive-in theater speaker poles with
speakers for $250 on Craigslist. Who knows what will sell? List it
and see.


I've got enough of all of the above, but there are certainly
some people out there collecting them -- or using them. :-)


People who don't know what stereo or hi-fi mean, y'mean? Fond old
memories of drive-ins, I remember borrowing Mom's '62 Lincoln
Continental, complete with suicide doors, to go to the drive-in after
I got my license. The front electric seat would to back, down, and
tilt back so we could put our feet on the dashboard to watch. Then,
when the movie got boring and my girlfriend got friendly, the cushy
seats proved long and wide. sweet sigh

--
If government were a product,
selling it would be illegal.
--P.J. O'Rourke


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"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On 13 Nov 2016 01:13:11 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"

wrote:


I used to repair the frayed looms on US and Euro cars after
accidents,
where a replacement wire loom was deemed too expensive. I remember
seeing some solid color cables with dots, but I don't recall the
brand. Mercedes often used same color wire with varied color
stripes
way back.


What is the acceptable heat, strain and waterproof way to splice them?

--jsw


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On 2016-11-13, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 13 Nov 2016 01:13:11 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2016-11-12, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 12 Nov 2016 05:23:55 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


[ ... ]


Ten colors, in two groups of five. That gives 25 pairs. The stripes
are not the same width, so it is quite easy to pick up.

Yeah, prolly so.


Stripes, or on some telephone cables, solid color with other
color dots every half inch or so.


I used to repair the frayed looms on US and Euro cars after accidents,
where a replacement wire loom was deemed too expensive. I remember
seeing some solid color cables with dots, but I don't recall the
brand.


I've only seen it on telephone cables, not auto wiring. And
telephone cable is solid wire, not stranded, so would not survive the
vibration of the automotive environment.

Mercedes often used same color wire with varied color stripes
way back.


Sure -- stripes were easy to make when they made the wire. Not
sure why dots were sometimes used by the phone company.

And some striped wire had two stripes, a wide and a narrow one
giving three colors.

An example, from the start of the sequence is blue and white,
typically blue with a white stripe and white with a blue stripe as the
other half of the pair. Keep using blue through the other four pair of
that group, then increment blue to the next color and repeat the
sequence of the other color in the pairs. So each color pair identifies
both wires of the pair as belonging together.


I'm sure that helps immensely when you're faced with 50-500 wires in a
group.


Well ... 25-pair cables *are* 50 wires, and the dots on solid
uniquely marked each wire in that count. (Aside from that, the two wires
in a pair were also twisted -- to minimize crosstalk to adjacent pairs.)
The twisting helps keep them together so you don't have to search
through 49 other wires to find the other half of a pair. :-)

[ ... ]

But the water-proofing grease used on the
1500 Pair or larger is just too messy for me to take apart and see what
the pattern is. (Aside from the ribbed aluminum sheet wrapped around
the wires all inside the black plastic jacket.)


Grok that. Ick!


Yep!

[ ... ]

How about some, new in the box 400E KTU line cards? Or a few
subcycle power supplies?


Ah -- SubCycle -- put in 60 Hz, get out 20 Hz by some magic
inductive circuit. Used for ringing the phone bells. (Except the other
frequency bells used on some party-line systems, in addition to ringing
between one wire of the pair and earth ground. :-)


I was playing with the phone line wires once when a call came in.
Yeouch! Weren't those 90vac@20Hz? Surprised me.


Yep -- 80=90 VAC 20 Hz (or 20 CPS in the old days. :-)

Hey, some guy is selling old drive-in theater speaker poles with
speakers for $250 on Craigslist. Who knows what will sell? List it
and see.


I've got enough of all of the above, but there are certainly
some people out there collecting them -- or using them. :-)


People who don't know what stereo or hi-fi mean, y'mean?


I meant the KTU line cards and sub-cycle units.

As for the drive-in speakers -- I wonder how many were uprooted
by driving off with them still in the window over the life of the
theater? :-)

Fond old
memories of drive-ins, I remember borrowing Mom's '62 Lincoln
Continental, complete with suicide doors, to go to the drive-in after
I got my license. The front electric seat would to back, down, and
tilt back so we could put our feet on the dashboard to watch. Then,
when the movie got boring and my girlfriend got friendly, the cushy
seats proved long and wide. sweet sigh


I didn't have wheels back then -- or a MGA, which really did not
have the creature comforts for properly enjoying a drive-in. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

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On Sun, 13 Nov 2016 12:05:51 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On 13 Nov 2016 01:13:11 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"

wrote:


I used to repair the frayed looms on US and Euro cars after
accidents,
where a replacement wire loom was deemed too expensive. I remember
seeing some solid color cables with dots, but I don't recall the
brand. Mercedes often used same color wire with varied color
stripes
way back.


What is the acceptable heat, strain and waterproof way to splice them?


I didn't replace any under-hood looms, just tail and under-fender
body, mostly, so heat wasn't an issue. Most often, I soldered in some
new wire, wrapped the joint with black tape, and then wound the whole
loom area with black tape. I still have the cheap plastic-but-handy
gadget which fit around most looms and held a roll of electrician's
tape. It allowed me to keep tension on the tape for best seal. I tried
to match color, but had none with stripes or dots. Most work was
repairing a few severed wires in that small section of the loom, but I
had to find them first. Some were evident when the quarter panel,
fender, or door was removed. Others hid under the dashboards. I
don't remember if it was the old Mercedes sedan or the Porsche 928
dashboard which was my worst nightmare. I took notes and marked
placement, but it took them many months from the time I dismantled it
until the frame was straightened and parts came in, so I could finally
replace the dash. I don't even want to -think- of the positions I had
to get my body in to get to hidden blind screws and retainers. My old
bod could no longer even attempt those near-dislocations.

--
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selling it would be illegal.
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On 14 Nov 2016 03:11:36 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2016-11-13, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 13 Nov 2016 01:13:11 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2016-11-12, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Sat, 12 Nov 2016 05:23:55 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"


Mikey or Don wrote:

An example, from the start of the sequence is blue and white,
typically blue with a white stripe and white with a blue stripe as the
other half of the pair. Keep using blue through the other four pair of
that group, then increment blue to the next color and repeat the
sequence of the other color in the pairs. So each color pair identifies
both wires of the pair as belonging together.


I'm sure that helps immensely when you're faced with 50-500 wires in a
group.


Well ... 25-pair cables *are* 50 wires, and the dots on solid
uniquely marked each wire in that count. (Aside from that, the two wires
in a pair were also twisted -- to minimize crosstalk to adjacent pairs.)
The twisting helps keep them together so you don't have to search
through 49 other wires to find the other half of a pair. :-)


Quite handy, that.


Ah -- SubCycle -- put in 60 Hz, get out 20 Hz by some magic
inductive circuit. Used for ringing the phone bells. (Except the other
frequency bells used on some party-line systems, in addition to ringing
between one wire of the pair and earth ground. :-)


I was playing with the phone line wires once when a call came in.
Yeouch! Weren't those 90vac@20Hz? Surprised me.


Yep -- 80=90 VAC 20 Hz (or 20 CPS in the old days. :-)


Yeah, I grew up with Cycles Per Second, too.


As for the drive-in speakers -- I wonder how many were uprooted
by driving off with them still in the window over the life of the
theater? :-)


Probably more than the number of gasoline pump hoses ripped out of
their pumps. g

Some likely stats: 1/2 had their speaker cable ripped out, 1/4 of the
speakers broke the window out, and 1/4 of the posts were uprooted.


Fond old
memories of drive-ins, I remember borrowing Mom's '62 Lincoln
Continental, complete with suicide doors, to go to the drive-in after
I got my license. The front electric seat would to back, down, and
tilt back so we could put our feet on the dashboard to watch. Then,
when the movie got boring and my girlfriend got friendly, the cushy
seats proved long and wide. sweet sigh


I didn't have wheels back then -- or a MGA, which really did not
have the creature comforts for properly enjoying a drive-in. :-)


A friend drove us to work in a floor-holey MGTD one winter. Granted,
SoCal ain't frozen tundra, but it was a mite chilly. I wouldn't have
considered it a model car for the drive-in, either, despite the vast
advances and upgrades from your MGA.

--
If government were a product,
selling it would be illegal.
--P.J. O'Rourke
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DoN. Nichols wrote:

Well ... 25-pair cables *are* 50 wires, and the dots on solid
uniquely marked each wire in that count. (Aside from that, the two wires
in a pair were also twisted -- to minimize crosstalk to adjacent pairs.)
The twisting helps keep them together so you don't have to search
through 49 other wires to find the other half of a pair. :-)



Not only re he pairs twisted, but the twist rate varies from pair to
pair to reduce the crosstalk even further.


--
Never **** off an Engineer!

They don't get mad.

They don't get even.

They go for over unity! ;-)


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On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 01:15:49 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

DoN. Nichols wrote:

Well ... 25-pair cables *are* 50 wires, and the dots on solid
uniquely marked each wire in that count. (Aside from that, the two wires
in a pair were also twisted -- to minimize crosstalk to adjacent pairs.)
The twisting helps keep them together so you don't have to search
through 49 other wires to find the other half of a pair. :-)



Not only re he pairs twisted, but the twist rate varies from pair to
pair to reduce the crosstalk even further.


They probably researched the hell out of that to end up with what they
did. I'm sure digital/optical tech is even more heavily researched as
the 2.5Gbs trunks get over 40k conversations or 250 TV channels
simultaneously. (I'm sure it's much faster now.) Zimply Amazing.

Our local rapist, Centurylink, offers sizzling 5Mbs DSL to me at this
time. sigh

--
If government were a product,
selling it would be illegal.
--P.J. O'Rourke
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On Monday, November 14, 2016 at 1:15:54 AM UTC-5, Michael Terrell wrote:
DoN. Nichols wrote:

Well ... 25-pair cables *are* 50 wires, and the dots on solid
uniquely marked each wire in that count. (Aside from that, the two wires
in a pair were also twisted -- to minimize crosstalk to adjacent pairs.)
The twisting helps keep them together so you don't have to search
through 49 other wires to find the other half of a pair. :-)



Not only re he pairs twisted, but the twist rate varies from pair to
pair to reduce the crosstalk even further.


Those phone company guys are pretty smart. I remember reading, in the very early 1980s, an article that explained in great detail why it was physically impossible to squeeze more than 1200 bits per second over a voice-grade phone wire. Then in the early 2000s, I spent a couple of months at Bell Labs, working up test procedures for DSLAM installations.

In each corner of each floor of the building, there was a seating area with a large whiteboard. The boards were covered with math that is far, far beyond what I could understand. It looked almost cartoonish - like they were making fun of math nerds.

But these were the guys who figured out how to cram millions of bits per second over that 1200 bit maximum twisted pair. On the other hand, they needed ME to come in and show them how to, basically, determine whether one end of a wire was connected to the other. only a very small percentage of those guys had a clue which end of a soldering iron to pick up.
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On Wednesday, November 9, 2016 at 3:26:00 PM UTC-5, Cydrome Leader wrote:
rangerssuck wrote:
On Wednesday, November 9, 2016 at 9:46:23 AM UTC-5, Michael Terrell wrote:
Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...
...
I used the Brady printed labels, and covered them with clear heat
shrink.
...

When I made cable harnesses for the batch of electric cars [the
customer] paid to have us label each wire with printed heatshrink
labels:
https://www.brother-usa.com/mobile/l...able_wire.aspx

I've used a fine Sharpie on paper labels for home projects but the
writing diffuses and fades under clear adhesive tape.


I switched to clear heatshrink, before the mid '80s. I was using it
on my shop cables, to stop people from claiming that they had brought
cables with equipment, when they didn't. I would type on address labels,
then trim and wrap them on the cable before applying the heatshrink
tubing. The labels had a description, and the date that they were made..


--
Never **** off an Engineer!

They don't get mad.

They don't get even.

They go for over unity! ;-)


You wouldn't be using that in Bell System (Verizon) central offices. You would fail inspection. According to Bellcore standards, ALL cables must be labeled at each end with flag-type labels which can be read from any direction without disconnecting the cable. I spend a few years designing and supervising the installation of colocation equipment for AT&T. I watched as two cages full of equipment were relabeled at one site.

Good idea? Maybe, maybe not. But it's their building, and if you're gonna put your stuff in it, it has to follow their rules.


ILEC telco folks seem to do the best wiring and labelling. It's union work
here, so nobody is in a hurry and there's no incentive to cut corners and
save money. There's no next billable job to move onto. Notice I said ILEC
though. There are lots of contractors involved on the phone network these
days and as you shift to the data side of stuff, things get uglier in
practive.


It's union work here too (NY, NJ CT). Of the 50 or so offices I was in, only one time did I have any issues with the union. They insisted on doing everything, with me touching nothing. They took instructions very well, and did everything right, but it was hands-off for me. In all of the other shops, the union guys didn't care at all who did the actual work. They would do it or I would do it or we would do it together. I learned a lot from those guys.
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"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 01:15:49 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

DoN. Nichols wrote:

Well ... 25-pair cables *are* 50 wires, and the dots on solid
uniquely marked each wire in that count. (Aside from that, the two
wires
in a pair were also twisted -- to minimize crosstalk to adjacent
pairs.)
The twisting helps keep them together so you don't have to search
through 49 other wires to find the other half of a pair. :-)



Not only re he pairs twisted, but the twist rate varies from
pair to
pair to reduce the crosstalk even further.


They probably researched the hell out of that to end up with what
they
did. I'm sure digital/optical tech is even more heavily researched
as
the 2.5Gbs trunks get over 40k conversations or 250 TV channels
simultaneously. (I'm sure it's much faster now.) Zimply Amazing.


The mathematics of communications theory is the most difficult subject
I've tried to learn, worse than Thermodynamics or Nuclear Physics. A
good introduction is the encoding on a music CD:
https://www.usna.edu/Users/math/wdj/...s/reed-sol.htm

Transmission line math is bad enough:
http://www.antenna-theory.com/tutori...ine.php#txline

Thankfully Mitre paid for and provided rooms with TVs, VCRs and phone
links to local university night school courses in electrical
engineering so I could learn how to do my very challenging job.

--jsw


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On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 09:50:21 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 01:15:49 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

DoN. Nichols wrote:

Well ... 25-pair cables *are* 50 wires, and the dots on solid
uniquely marked each wire in that count. (Aside from that, the two
wires
in a pair were also twisted -- to minimize crosstalk to adjacent
pairs.)
The twisting helps keep them together so you don't have to search
through 49 other wires to find the other half of a pair. :-)


Not only re he pairs twisted, but the twist rate varies from
pair to
pair to reduce the crosstalk even further.


They probably researched the hell out of that to end up with what
they
did. I'm sure digital/optical tech is even more heavily researched
as
the 2.5Gbs trunks get over 40k conversations or 250 TV channels
simultaneously. (I'm sure it's much faster now.) Zimply Amazing.


The mathematics of communications theory is the most difficult subject
I've tried to learn, worse than Thermodynamics or Nuclear Physics. A
good introduction is the encoding on a music CD:
https://www.usna.edu/Users/math/wdj/...s/reed-sol.htm


Each of those would seem to be a single-choice career. Pick one tiny
section of one and devote your entire life to learning it. I hope you
weren't doing all this concurrently. =:-0


Transmission line math is bad enough:
http://www.antenna-theory.com/tutori...ine.php#txline

Thankfully Mitre paid for and provided rooms with TVs, VCRs and phone
links to local university night school courses in electrical
engineering so I could learn how to do my very challenging job.


That's a smart move on Mitre's part. How many hours/day were you
putting in at that point, between work and school learning+study?
16+?

--
If government were a product,
selling it would be illegal.
--P.J. O'Rourke


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"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 09:50:21 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 01:15:49 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

DoN. Nichols wrote:

Well ... 25-pair cables *are* 50 wires, and the dots on solid
uniquely marked each wire in that count. (Aside from that, the
two
wires
in a pair were also twisted -- to minimize crosstalk to adjacent
pairs.)
The twisting helps keep them together so you don't have to
search
through 49 other wires to find the other half of a pair. :-)


Not only re he pairs twisted, but the twist rate varies from
pair to
pair to reduce the crosstalk even further.

They probably researched the hell out of that to end up with what
they
did. I'm sure digital/optical tech is even more heavily
researched
as
the 2.5Gbs trunks get over 40k conversations or 250 TV channels
simultaneously. (I'm sure it's much faster now.) Zimply Amazing.


The mathematics of communications theory is the most difficult
subject
I've tried to learn, worse than Thermodynamics or Nuclear Physics. A
good introduction is the encoding on a music CD:
https://www.usna.edu/Users/math/wdj/...s/reed-sol.htm


Each of those would seem to be a single-choice career. Pick one
tiny
section of one and devote your entire life to learning it. I hope
you
weren't doing all this concurrently. =:-0


Well, Chemistry isn't easy. It's a very broad field and they cover
enough to at least understand the explanations if you go into any area
of it. The associated Physics courses taught electronic theory up
through waveguide propagation modes and DC and AC network analysis by
differential equations. One homework problem was to calculate the
capacitance between your hand and the planet Saturn.

It was four full years of coursework and all summer in the lab on
research grants, no generalized Freshman and Sophomore years to "find
yourself" before choosing a major. I used Theatre to fulfill the
Humanities requirement mainly because it was right across the street
and there was no homework or exams or socialist BS.


Transmission line math is bad enough:
http://www.antenna-theory.com/tutori...ine.php#txline

Thankfully Mitre paid for and provided rooms with TVs, VCRs and
phone
links to local university night school courses in electrical
engineering so I could learn how to do my very challenging job.


That's a smart move on Mitre's part. How many hours/day were you
putting in at that point, between work and school learning+study?
16+?


On school nights it was up at 5AM, home after 9PM. On others I did
homework until I fell asleep, but I did manage to eat, do laundry and
maintain a solid 4.0 in all classes.

--jsw


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On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 06:13:20 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 01:15:49 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

DoN. Nichols wrote:

Well ... 25-pair cables *are* 50 wires, and the dots on solid
uniquely marked each wire in that count. (Aside from that, the two wires
in a pair were also twisted -- to minimize crosstalk to adjacent pairs.)
The twisting helps keep them together so you don't have to search
through 49 other wires to find the other half of a pair. :-)



Not only re he pairs twisted, but the twist rate varies from pair to
pair to reduce the crosstalk even further.


They probably researched the hell out of that to end up with what they
did. I'm sure digital/optical tech is even more heavily researched as
the 2.5Gbs trunks get over 40k conversations or 250 TV channels
simultaneously. (I'm sure it's much faster now.) Zimply Amazing.

Our local rapist, Centurylink, offers sizzling 5Mbs DSL to me at this
time. sigh


Thats what get from Time Warner as well as 13 channels of plain jane
TV for $79/month


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

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On 2016-11-14, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 14 Nov 2016 03:11:36 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:


[ ... ]

Yep -- 80=90 VAC 20 Hz (or 20 CPS in the old days. :-)


Yeah, I grew up with Cycles Per Second, too.


Or -- for short, '~' on some date plates. :-)

As for the drive-in speakers -- I wonder how many were uprooted
by driving off with them still in the window over the life of the
theater? :-)


Probably more than the number of gasoline pump hoses ripped out of
their pumps. g

Some likely stats: 1/2 had their speaker cable ripped out, 1/4 of the
speakers broke the window out, and 1/4 of the posts were uprooted.


Sounds good.


Fond old
memories of drive-ins, I remember borrowing Mom's '62 Lincoln
Continental, complete with suicide doors, to go to the drive-in after
I got my license. The front electric seat would to back, down, and
tilt back so we could put our feet on the dashboard to watch. Then,
when the movie got boring and my girlfriend got friendly, the cushy
seats proved long and wide. sweet sigh


I didn't have wheels back then -- or a MGA, which really did not
have the creature comforts for properly enjoying a drive-in. :-)


A friend drove us to work in a floor-holey MGTD one winter. Granted,
SoCal ain't frozen tundra, but it was a mite chilly. I wouldn't have
considered it a model car for the drive-in, either, despite the vast
advances and upgrades from your MGA.


Huh? The TC and TD (as wellas the TF) all preceded the MGA.
Only the MGB and MGC (MGB with a 6 cylinder engine instead of the
traditional 4 cylinder one.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
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On 2016-11-14, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
DoN. Nichols wrote:

Well ... 25-pair cables *are* 50 wires, and the dots on solid
uniquely marked each wire in that count. (Aside from that, the two wires
in a pair were also twisted -- to minimize crosstalk to adjacent pairs.)
The twisting helps keep them together so you don't have to search
through 49 other wires to find the other half of a pair. :-)



Not only re he pairs twisted, but the twist rate varies from pair to
pair to reduce the crosstalk even further.


Certainly in the 4-pair cables (Cat-5 and better) used for
10Base-T/100Base-T/1000BaseT ethernet jumpers. :-)

One thing which is rather weird -- as they are crimped into
RJ-45 connectors, at least -- is that for some reason or other, the
primary and secondary wire colors are interchanged for the first pair
only (pins 4 & 5 -- in the center of the connector). I can't even
figure out how it could make a difference -- as long as both ends are
done the same. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
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Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
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On 15 Nov 2016 03:01:39 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2016-11-14, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 14 Nov 2016 03:11:36 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:


[ ... ]

Yep -- 80=90 VAC 20 Hz (or 20 CPS in the old days. :-)


Yeah, I grew up with Cycles Per Second, too.


Or -- for short, '~' on some date plates. :-)


Right. I had forgotten those. That's probably how it ended up on the
QWERTY keyboard in the first place. I use it now to approximate.


As for the drive-in speakers -- I wonder how many were uprooted
by driving off with them still in the window over the life of the
theater? :-)


Probably more than the number of gasoline pump hoses ripped out of
their pumps. g

Some likely stats: 1/2 had their speaker cable ripped out, 1/4 of the
speakers broke the window out, and 1/4 of the posts were uprooted.


Sounds good.


Fond old
memories of drive-ins, I remember borrowing Mom's '62 Lincoln
Continental, complete with suicide doors, to go to the drive-in after
I got my license. The front electric seat would to back, down, and
tilt back so we could put our feet on the dashboard to watch. Then,
when the movie got boring and my girlfriend got friendly, the cushy
seats proved long and wide. sweet sigh

I didn't have wheels back then -- or a MGA, which really did not
have the creature comforts for properly enjoying a drive-in. :-)


A friend drove us to work in a floor-holey MGTD one winter. Granted,
SoCal ain't frozen tundra, but it was a mite chilly. I wouldn't have
considered it a model car for the drive-in, either, despite the vast
advances and upgrades from your MGA.


Huh? The TC and TD (as wellas the TF) all preceded the MGA.
Only the MGB and MGC (MGB with a 6 cylinder engine instead of the
traditional 4 cylinder one.


Oh, I didn't know that. So, did the Brits start with an MGZ?

My sister had a 1973 BLMC MGB GT. (say that 3 times real fast)

--
If government were a product,
selling it would be illegal.
--P.J. O'Rourke


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On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 11:18:38 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 09:50:21 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 01:15:49 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

DoN. Nichols wrote:

Well ... 25-pair cables *are* 50 wires, and the dots on solid
uniquely marked each wire in that count. (Aside from that, the
two
wires
in a pair were also twisted -- to minimize crosstalk to adjacent
pairs.)
The twisting helps keep them together so you don't have to
search
through 49 other wires to find the other half of a pair. :-)


Not only re he pairs twisted, but the twist rate varies from
pair to
pair to reduce the crosstalk even further.

They probably researched the hell out of that to end up with what
they
did. I'm sure digital/optical tech is even more heavily
researched
as
the 2.5Gbs trunks get over 40k conversations or 250 TV channels
simultaneously. (I'm sure it's much faster now.) Zimply Amazing.


The mathematics of communications theory is the most difficult
subject
I've tried to learn, worse than Thermodynamics or Nuclear Physics. A
good introduction is the encoding on a music CD:
https://www.usna.edu/Users/math/wdj/...s/reed-sol.htm


Each of those would seem to be a single-choice career. Pick one
tiny
section of one and devote your entire life to learning it. I hope
you
weren't doing all this concurrently. =:-0


Well, Chemistry isn't easy. It's a very broad field and they cover
enough to at least understand the explanations if you go into any area
of it.


I had one year of Organic Chemistry in high school, and I think over
1/3 of the class dropped out. I was happy with a B+.


The associated Physics courses taught electronic theory up
through waveguide propagation modes and DC and AC network analysis by
differential equations. One homework problem was to calculate the
capacitance between your hand and the planet Saturn.


What was the answer, a gazillion puff?


It was four full years of coursework and all summer in the lab on
research grants, no generalized Freshman and Sophomore years to "find
yourself" before choosing a major. I used Theatre to fulfill the


No comment.


Humanities requirement mainly because it was right across the street
and there was no homework or exams or socialist BS.


Yeah, campuses were evil cauldrons of socialism even back then,
weren't they?


Transmission line math is bad enough:
http://www.antenna-theory.com/tutori...ine.php#txline

Thankfully Mitre paid for and provided rooms with TVs, VCRs and
phone
links to local university night school courses in electrical
engineering so I could learn how to do my very challenging job.


That's a smart move on Mitre's part. How many hours/day were you
putting in at that point, between work and school learning+study?
16+?


On school nights it was up at 5AM, home after 9PM. On others I did
homework until I fell asleep, but I did manage to eat, do laundry and
maintain a solid 4.0 in all classes.


Rugged. Kudos on all that, BTW.

--
If government were a product,
selling it would be illegal.
--P.J. O'Rourke
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On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 14:04:24 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 06:13:20 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 01:15:49 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

DoN. Nichols wrote:

Well ... 25-pair cables *are* 50 wires, and the dots on solid
uniquely marked each wire in that count. (Aside from that, the two wires
in a pair were also twisted -- to minimize crosstalk to adjacent pairs.)
The twisting helps keep them together so you don't have to search
through 49 other wires to find the other half of a pair. :-)


Not only re he pairs twisted, but the twist rate varies from pair to
pair to reduce the crosstalk even further.


They probably researched the hell out of that to end up with what they
did. I'm sure digital/optical tech is even more heavily researched as
the 2.5Gbs trunks get over 40k conversations or 250 TV channels
simultaneously. (I'm sure it's much faster now.) Zimply Amazing.

Our local rapist, Centurylink, offers sizzling 5Mbs DSL to me at this
time. sigh


Thats what get from Time Warner as well as 13 channels of plain jane
TV for $79/month


I'm paying $74/mo for basic phone and slow internet, no TV.

--
If government were a product,
selling it would be illegal.
--P.J. O'Rourke
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"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On 15 Nov 2016 03:01:39 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"

wrote:

On 2016-11-14, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On 14 Nov 2016 03:11:36 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"

wrote:


[ ... ]

Yep -- 80=90 VAC 20 Hz (or 20 CPS in the old days. :-)

Yeah, I grew up with Cycles Per Second, too.


Or -- for short, '~' on some date plates. :-)


Right. I had forgotten those. That's probably how it ended up on
the
QWERTY keyboard in the first place. I use it now to approximate.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilde



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On Tue, 15 Nov 2016 07:21:58 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 14:04:24 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 06:13:20 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 01:15:49 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

DoN. Nichols wrote:

Well ... 25-pair cables *are* 50 wires, and the dots on solid
uniquely marked each wire in that count. (Aside from that, the two wires
in a pair were also twisted -- to minimize crosstalk to adjacent pairs.)
The twisting helps keep them together so you don't have to search
through 49 other wires to find the other half of a pair. :-)


Not only re he pairs twisted, but the twist rate varies from pair to
pair to reduce the crosstalk even further.

They probably researched the hell out of that to end up with what they
did. I'm sure digital/optical tech is even more heavily researched as
the 2.5Gbs trunks get over 40k conversations or 250 TV channels
simultaneously. (I'm sure it's much faster now.) Zimply Amazing.

Our local rapist, Centurylink, offers sizzling 5Mbs DSL to me at this
time. sigh


Thats what get from Time Warner as well as 13 channels of plain jane
TV for $79/month


I'm paying $74/mo for basic phone and slow internet, no TV.


Our cell phones (3) Sprint...cost us about $265/month in addition.
I keep telling the wife that we do NOT need to be subsidizing our 12
yr old granddaughter and her cellphone...but the wife "needs" to be
able to do the video thing with her and the 3 grandkids...as they live
800+ miles away...and she needs the interface. Cheap peace
keeping...sorta.
They video chat while we are in Walmart...looking at the clothes, at
the park, at the lake, at the grocery store, etc etc etc...sigh.

Unlimited voice and data ....shrug

Dont have grand children unless you can pay for them....


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

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On Tue, 15 Nov 2016 13:30:39 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On 15 Nov 2016 03:01:39 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"

wrote:

On 2016-11-14, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On 14 Nov 2016 03:11:36 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"

wrote:

[ ... ]

Yep -- 80=90 VAC 20 Hz (or 20 CPS in the old days. :-)

Yeah, I grew up with Cycles Per Second, too.

Or -- for short, '~' on some date plates. :-)


Right. I had forgotten those. That's probably how it ended up on
the
QWERTY keyboard in the first place. I use it now to approximate.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilde


The wee beastie has a long history, doon it?

--
If government were a product,
selling it would be illegal.
--P.J. O'Rourke


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On Tue, 15 Nov 2016 12:42:19 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Tue, 15 Nov 2016 07:21:58 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 14:04:24 -0800, Gunner Asch
wrote:


Our local rapist, Centurylink, offers sizzling 5Mbs DSL to me at this
time. sigh

Thats what get from Time Warner as well as 13 channels of plain jane
TV for $79/month


I'm paying $74/mo for basic phone and slow internet, no TV.


You two bozos deserve slooow internet. Suits your thinking perfectly.

Our cell phones (3) Sprint...cost us about $265/month in addition.


By "cost us," do you mean the same way healthcare and taxes cost you?
Because nobody believes you're coming up with hundreds a month for
phones and TV. I'm thinking wife's "disability" check, aka, picking
the pockets of genuine taxpayers, same as with everything else you
weasel out of.

This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus


What email, you jobless freeloader.
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"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 15 Nov 2016 13:30:39 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
. ..
On 15 Nov 2016 03:01:39 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"

wrote:

On 2016-11-14, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On 14 Nov 2016 03:11:36 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"

wrote:

[ ... ]

Yep -- 80=90 VAC 20 Hz (or 20 CPS in the old days. :-)

Yeah, I grew up with Cycles Per Second, too.

Or -- for short, '~' on some date plates. :-)

Right. I had forgotten those. That's probably how it ended up on
the
QWERTY keyboard in the first place. I use it now to approximate.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilde


The wee beastie has a long history, doon it?


I had the job of designing the fonts for an ink jet printer so I've
researched the names and meanings of the symbols.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ampersand


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On 2016-11-15, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 15 Nov 2016 03:01:39 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2016-11-14, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 14 Nov 2016 03:11:36 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:


[ ... ]

Yep -- 80=90 VAC 20 Hz (or 20 CPS in the old days. :-)

Yeah, I grew up with Cycles Per Second, too.


Or -- for short, '~' on some date plates. :-)


Right. I had forgotten those. That's probably how it ended up on the
QWERTY keyboard in the first place. I use it now to approximate.


Maybe -- but it also belongs above certain letters in Spanish
and Portuguese to modify the pronunciation. Spanish it is 'n' and 'ñ'
(pronounced "ennye". I'm not quite sure what the effect of it being
orve an 'a' is in Portugese. :-)

[ ... ]

I didn't have wheels back then -- or a MGA, which really did not
have the creature comforts for properly enjoying a drive-in. :-)

A friend drove us to work in a floor-holey MGTD one winter. Granted,
SoCal ain't frozen tundra, but it was a mite chilly. I wouldn't have
considered it a model car for the drive-in, either, despite the vast
advances and upgrades from your MGA.


Huh? The TC and TD (as well as the TF) all preceded the MGA.
Only the MGB and MGC (MGB with a 6 cylinder engine instead of the
traditional 4 cylinder one.


Oh, I didn't know that. So, did the Brits start with an MGZ?


The sports cars were not all of their line. I think the sedans
at the time of the MGA were the "PB", but I'm not sure.

The T series cars were all rather boxy, with the MG-TF the least
so (the headlights were faired in the the fenders (wings) in the TF,
while they were in bullets above the fenders in the earlier ones.

The MGA was the first of the swoopy body designs for the sports
cars, and I always thought looked nicer than the MGB line.

It was certainly fun to drive, anyway. :-)

My sister had a 1973 BLMC MGB GT. (say that 3 times real fast)


O.K. IIRC, the GT models were ones with a hardtop, but I may be
wrong.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
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On Tue, 15 Nov 2016 22:23:30 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Tue, 15 Nov 2016 13:30:39 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...
On 15 Nov 2016 03:01:39 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"

wrote:

On 2016-11-14, Larry Jaques
wrote:
On 14 Nov 2016 03:11:36 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"

wrote:

[ ... ]

Yep -- 80=90 VAC 20 Hz (or 20 CPS in the old days. :-)

Yeah, I grew up with Cycles Per Second, too.

Or -- for short, '~' on some date plates. :-)

Right. I had forgotten those. That's probably how it ended up on
the
QWERTY keyboard in the first place. I use it now to approximate.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tilde


The wee beastie has a long history, doon it?


I had the job of designing the fonts for an ink jet printer so I've


Thankless job, wot? (more recently, anyway) I used to make web
advertising banners and sorted through the hundreds of different fonts
available through Corel Draw 3 (my first graphical purchase) to match
the font to the product and company it represented.

I toyed with a font editor a couple times but didn't have the mindset
for it. You probably did it more from an electronics perspective, so I
can't really compare. Were you gifted with naming the font you
inspired, or did the company graciously call it "default inkjet font
1"?


researched the names and meanings of the symbols.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ampersand


Wow, they had aliens way back then? Cool!
"The ampersand is the logogram "&", representing the conjunction word
"and". It originated as a ligature of the letters et, Latin for
"and".[1]"

I sure prefer the more easily handwritten modern ampersand.


--
If government were a product,
selling it would be illegal.
--P.J. O'Rourke
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On 16 Nov 2016 05:39:30 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2016-11-15, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 15 Nov 2016 03:01:39 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2016-11-14, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 14 Nov 2016 03:11:36 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

[ ... ]

Yep -- 80=90 VAC 20 Hz (or 20 CPS in the old days. :-)

Yeah, I grew up with Cycles Per Second, too.

Or -- for short, '~' on some date plates. :-)


Right. I had forgotten those. That's probably how it ended up on the
QWERTY keyboard in the first place. I use it now to approximate.


Maybe -- but it also belongs above certain letters in Spanish
and Portuguese to modify the pronunciation. Spanish it is 'n' and 'ñ'
(pronounced "ennye".


I had to learn those (Alt-0139 originally, it changed with different
fonts) early on since I tossed French, Spanish, and German words in my
BBS posts very early on.


I'm not quite sure what the effect of it being
orve an 'a' is in Portugese. :-)


Maybe it's pronounced with a Suthuhn accent "ayund" The-yus a-yund
tha-yat. :-/


[ ... ]

I didn't have wheels back then -- or a MGA, which really did not
have the creature comforts for properly enjoying a drive-in. :-)

A friend drove us to work in a floor-holey MGTD one winter. Granted,
SoCal ain't frozen tundra, but it was a mite chilly. I wouldn't have
considered it a model car for the drive-in, either, despite the vast
advances and upgrades from your MGA.

Huh? The TC and TD (as well as the TF) all preceded the MGA.
Only the MGB and MGC (MGB with a 6 cylinder engine instead of the
traditional 4 cylinder one.


Oh, I didn't know that. So, did the Brits start with an MGZ?


The sports cars were not all of their line. I think the sedans
at the time of the MGA were the "PB", but I'm not sure.


They were all evil, sporting that Prince of Darkness symbol on their
electrical systems, so I didn't follow them. (Yes, "Lucas")


The T series cars were all rather boxy, with the MG-TF the least
so (the headlights were faired in the the fenders (wings) in the TF,
while they were in bullets above the fenders in the earlier ones.

The MGA was the first of the swoopy body designs for the sports
cars, and I always thought looked nicer than the MGB line.


(googling to refresh memory) My dad ran an Austin Healey 100/4 in
gymkhanas and autocrosses in me yout. I grew up/teethed on tuning his
spoked wheels. They were quite similar to the MGA, wot?

I think I prefer the look of the MGB, and the performance of a Sunbeam
Tiger, a Shelby Cobra, or the lines and performance of a McLaren P1
GTR, TYVM. vbg


It was certainly fun to drive, anyway. :-)

My sister had a 1973 BLMC MGB GT. (say that 3 times real fast)


O.K. IIRC, the GT models were ones with a hardtop, but I may be
wrong.


Yes, as was my first car, a '57 Chebby BelAir 4-dr Hardtop.

--
If government were a product,
selling it would be illegal.
--P.J. O'Rourke
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