Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...
Cydrome Leader wrote:

Ha!

6 feet of romex. The friendly electrical supply house here will
load your
vehicle up even if you're clearly not in the trade. The other
places with
the shiny showrooms seem to be bothered by any sort of counter
sale. They
also seem to have huge warehouses full of nothing as even simple
stuff
doesn't seem to be in stock for some reason. I don't get it, but
whatever.


Around 1990, I was building a TV station in Destin, Florida.
There was a branch of an electrical supply house that I used, back
home. They refused to sell to me. So, I smiled and said, "No
problem. I'm going home on Friday evening, so I'll by it at that
branch. I'll also ask the manager to contact corporate, to report
you."

All of a sudden, a cash sale was OK. Then I discovered that they
only stocked Black White & Brown THHN in 14 AWG. I needed to replace
a damaged wiring harness of over 200 conductors, so it was real fun
with only three colors.

For those who may not know:
https://www.bradyid.com/en-us/produc...d-cable-labels


Labeling was no problem, but only being able to pull three wires at
a time, instead of 10 meant that it took more than three times as long
to make and test the huge harness. I not only labeled each conductor at
each end, I covered each label with cleat heatshrink, and tinned the ends.


--
Never **** off an Engineer!

They don't get mad.

They don't get even.

They go for over unity! ;-)

On Mon, 31 Oct 2016 16:36:30 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Cydrome Leader wrote:

Ha!

6 feet of romex. The friendly electrical supply house here will load your
vehicle up even if you're clearly not in the trade. The other places with
the shiny showrooms seem to be bothered by any sort of counter sale. They
also seem to have huge warehouses full of nothing as even simple stuff
doesn't seem to be in stock for some reason. I don't get it, but whatever.


Around 1990, I was building a TV station in Destin, Florida. There
was a branch of an electrical supply house that I used, back home. They
refused to sell to me. So, I smiled and said, "No problem. I'm going
home on Friday evening, so I'll by it at that branch. I'll also ask the
manager to contact corporate, to report you."

All of a sudden, a cash sale was OK. Then I discovered that they
only stocked Black White & Brown THHN in 14 AWG. I needed to replace a
damaged wiring harness of over 200 conductors, so it was real fun with
only three colors.

I can only imagine.

Did you wear out a number-style label maker? I hated old Mercenary's
Bends (IIRC) repairs because of the numbered wires. Man, that was a
crispy old memory. Crap like this:
http://www.linkbelt.com/lit/images/p...ive_Wiring.jpg


Our military used the same method long ago.

And I remember cringing as a kid, when I saw the phone repairman with
the big fat bundle of tiny wires all splayed out.

--
If government were a product,
selling it would be illegal.
--P.J. O'Rourke

On Mon, 31 Oct 2016 18:14:11 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...
Cydrome Leader wrote:

Ha!

6 feet of romex. The friendly electrical supply house here will
load your
vehicle up even if you're clearly not in the trade. The other
places with
the shiny showrooms seem to be bothered by any sort of counter
sale. They
also seem to have huge warehouses full of nothing as even simple
stuff
doesn't seem to be in stock for some reason. I don't get it, but
whatever.


Around 1990, I was building a TV station in Destin, Florida.
There was a branch of an electrical supply house that I used, back
home. They refused to sell to me. So, I smiled and said, "No
problem. I'm going home on Friday evening, so I'll by it at that
branch. I'll also ask the manager to contact corporate, to report
you."

All of a sudden, a cash sale was OK. Then I discovered that they
only stocked Black White & Brown THHN in 14 AWG. I needed to replace
a damaged wiring harness of over 200 conductors, so it was real fun
with only three colors.

For those who may not know:
https://www.bradyid.com/en-us/produc...d-cable-labels


Labeling was no problem, but only being able to pull three wires at
a time, instead of 10 meant that it took more than three times as long
to make and test the huge harness. I not only labeled each conductor at
each end, I covered each label with cleat heatshrink, and tinned the ends.
You COULD have bought more than one roll of each color - this would
reduce the time spent = quite possibly enough to pay for any waste
wire left over after the job (which could be used on another job,
anyway)

On Sat, 29 Oct 2016 08:48:11 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

wrote:
On Wednesday, October 26, 2016 at 12:25:29 AM UTC-4, Larry Jaques wrote:

I can find damnear anything, and for a great price, on either eBay.com
or Amazon.com. The Home Depot (as stated), Homedepot.com, and
Craigslist.com usually have local stuff, too.

Warning a minor gloat coming.

Today I cruised thru the local scrap yard and found almost nothing. But did find a Gardner Bender 1/2 inch emt hickey. Well not the whole thing, it was just the head, no handle. But kind of nice with a bubble level and arrows indicating the angle bent. It is cast aluminum and the guy at the scrap yard did not charge me for it.

Dan

I've had mine for almost 45 years.

I have 3 sets, 1/2-1"

One in each work truck, one in my home shop.

One of the sets I got back in the very early 1980s

---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 2016-10-31, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 31 Oct 2016 16:36:30 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

[ ... ]

All of a sudden, a cash sale was OK. Then I discovered that they
only stocked Black White & Brown THHN in 14 AWG. I needed to replace a
damaged wiring harness of over 200 conductors, so it was real fun with
only three colors.

I can only imagine.

Did you wear out a number-style label maker? I hated old Mercenary's
Bends (IIRC) repairs because of the numbered wires. Man, that was a
crispy old memory. Crap like this:
http://www.linkbelt.com/lit/images/p...ive_Wiring.jpg


Our military used the same method long ago.

I remember when I worked at a place which was making flight
simulators for the Navy, the cable harnesses had gazillions of 22 ga
white wires which were run through a machine which hot-stamped a number
every few inches -- and each wire had a different number, which matched
numbers in wire lists and on schematics. (Typical connectors were 104
pin rectangular ones with crimp-on pins.) The harness in the cockpit
was mostly the same 22 ga wires, in a bundle about 8" diameter.

And I remember cringing as a kid, when I saw the phone repairman with
the big fat bundle of tiny wires all splayed out.

But the phone company has a good system for keeping track of the
wires. 25 pair per sub-bundle, with each pair being made of a
particular pair of colors, and beyond that, a pair of colored thread
bundles wrapped around that, to distinguish bundles, following the same
color pattern.

The fun ones were more recent ones which had all the wires
embedded in clear silicone grease -- really messy to handle.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 1 Nov 2016 04:11:03 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:


And I remember cringing as a kid, when I saw the phone repairman with
the big fat bundle of tiny wires all splayed out.

But the phone company has a good system for keeping track of the
wires. 25 pair per sub-bundle, with each pair being made of a
particular pair of colors, and beyond that, a pair of colored thread
bundles wrapped around that, to distinguish bundles, following the same
color pattern.

Ayup, 25 pair/50 pair/200 pair...tons of fun to wire a frame or old
1A2 keysystem.

I still have a dozen or more 66 blocks out in one of the storage
drawers...and of course, my punch down tools.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punch_down_tool

https://www.amazon.com/Fluke-Network..._6396135011_18

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/66_block

I got out of it before the rise of the 110 blocks..but I still keep my
hand in it, so I deal with them now and then.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/110_block


The fun ones were more recent ones which had all the wires
embedded in clear silicone grease -- really messy to handle.

Overhead or direct burial cables..that silicone is worse than
snot...never did find a decent solvent to clean up a cable after I
opened one....had to wipe each and every wire..in 50 conductor
bundles....yetch!!!


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

On 1 Nov 2016 04:11:03 GMT
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

snip
The fun ones were more recent ones which had all the wires
embedded in clear silicone grease -- really messy to handle.

Icky-pick, see:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icky-pick

I was a two-way radio tech. The phone techs I had to work with had
their own vocabulary or rather slang. Icky-pick was one of them. Along
with dry pair, short, boot, tip, ring... always a lot of fun trying to
communicate back in forth in our individual terms ;-)

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

"Leon Fisk" wrote in message
...
On 1 Nov 2016 04:11:03 GMT
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

snip
The fun ones were more recent ones which had all the wires
embedded in clear silicone grease -- really messy to handle.

Icky-pick, see:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icky-pick

I was a two-way radio tech. The phone techs I had to work with had
their own vocabulary or rather slang. Icky-pick was one of them.
Along
with dry pair, short, boot, tip, ring... always a lot of fun trying
to
communicate back in forth in our individual terms ;-)

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email


http://www.webopedia.com/TERM/P/POTS.html

dpb wrote:
On 10/30/2016 4:44 AM, dpb wrote:
...

Well, the "large" is comparatively, it's a regional outfit of about 20
locations in KS/MO. They go by Stanion Wholesale Electric. Doesn't keep
them from being most unfriendly price-wise to anything OTC, though...

When returned to family farm, there were existing farm accounts at all
the businesses with which do routine business and none other than
Stanion and one other which had changed ownership gave any hassle at all
in just changing name on accounts from Dad...the latter did require a
minimal credit form but Stanion's required a commitment of a continuing
level of activity on a monthly basis that obviously as farm just
generally don't have ongoing activity. So, w/ the loss of Sunflower
Electric (the other, locally-owned formerly great location now seemingly
dealing only in very large commercial activity as the storefront is
closed entirely and the only activity I see is large reels of cable and
other materials in/out of the lot), they're the only distributor in town
of all things electric outside what the Ace Hardware and Meade Do-It
Best outlet have. They'll cover the ordinary household wiring for the
most part, but will have nothing industrially-sized...

But, I did just for grins go look and I see the current credit
application at the Stanion site no longer does have the additional
requirements and will accept a list of existing other commercial
accounts as their references...I guess maybe they've gotten enough other
"pushback" to back off some, it appears. I may just have to have
another go at it--the local Mr Goodwrench dealership just changed hands
as well and they've been quite unaccomodating in transferring existing
accounts, too, so I've got to go thru the same exercise there
again...mayhaps as well do two rather than just one I suppose if have to
update the list at all...

I've not even bothered to try to get net 30 terms lately as it's just
too much of a hassle. With small places, if you are a regular, they just
offer it, no big deal. With any "corporate" type place there's 3 pages of
forms. I guess you can use NEBs or U-Line as credit reference, but I doubt
they'd reply to any such request. FWIW NEBs the check printer and U-Line
the packing supply place offers net 30 to anybody that can manage to just
ask them for it.

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Cydrome Leader wrote:

Ha!

6 feet of romex. The friendly electrical supply house here will load your
vehicle up even if you're clearly not in the trade. The other places with
the shiny showrooms seem to be bothered by any sort of counter sale. They
also seem to have huge warehouses full of nothing as even simple stuff
doesn't seem to be in stock for some reason. I don't get it, but whatever.


Around 1990, I was building a TV station in Destin, Florida. There
was a branch of an electrical supply house that I used, back home. They
refused to sell to me. So, I smiled and said, "No problem. I'm going
home on Friday evening, so I'll by it at that branch. I'll also ask the
manager to contact corporate, to report you."

All of a sudden, a cash sale was OK. Then I discovered that they
only stocked Black White & Brown THHN in 14 AWG. I needed to replace a
damaged wiring harness of over 200 conductors, so it was real fun with
only three colors.

Awful. Did you do colored tape wraps, like phone cable?

Leon Fisk wrote:
On Fri, 28 Oct 2016 18:24:43 -0700 (PDT)
" wrote:

snip
Today I cruised thru the local scrap yard and found almost
nothing. But did find a Gardner Bender 1/2 inch emt hickey.
Well not the whole thing, it was just the head, no handle.
But kind of nice with a bubble level and arrows indicating
the angle bent. It is cast aluminum and the guy at the
scrap yard did not charge me for it.

Nice find. They go for $20-30 new around here. And that is without
the handle. Handles are sold separately. Had to buy mine new (1/2 and
3/4 in). Just scrounged up the appropriate sized pipes for handles.

What you got is what we just called a bender in this area. A Hickey is a
slightly different animal. Nice little pdf file I found he

https://www.quia.com/files/quia/user...onduit_Bending

It has a drawing on the first page of a regular EMT bender and a
Hickey. Brief description of usage. A lot of nice bending tips,
measurements too if you're new to this

This is a great doc on bending. Thanks.

Leon Fisk wrote:
On Sun, 30 Oct 2016 09:20:22 -0500
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Leon Fisk fired this volley in news:nv4njt$n5o$1
:

A lot of nice bending tips,
measurements too if you're new to this


It's a good review if you only bend thinwall about once every three years,
like I do. grin

Lloyd

It (pdf) would have been really, really helpful when I started out as an
apprentice. Other than the obvious measurements for 90 deg bends and
some tutoring from other workers I was on my own. Figuring out offsets
and other complex bends was great fun. Couplings were your friend

I never saw a short "hickey" back then. It was just in the last 10
years or so that I learned about them. It would have been a useful tool
to have had around back then. We had other tricks to make tighter bends
than what was standard but a think a hickey would have been able to
beat them...

What were some of these tricks?

Cydrome Leader fired this volley in news:nvalkp
:

What were some of these tricks?

A few of them include putting 'kinks' in the inner part of the curve, in
order to reduce the radius.

A _good_ guy will put all the kinks in the direction such that the folds
don't interfere with pushing a bundle through, or sucking a rat through.

But as long as the kinks don't use up enough internal volume, it's
usually still pretty easy to push wire through, because the wire wants to
follow the o.d., not the i.d.

LLoyd

Cydrome Leader wrote:
Leon Fisk wrote:
On Fri, 28 Oct 2016 18:24:43 -0700 (PDT)
" wrote:

snip
Today I cruised thru the local scrap yard and found almost
nothing. But did find a Gardner Bender 1/2 inch emt hickey.
Well not the whole thing, it was just the head, no handle.
But kind of nice with a bubble level and arrows indicating
the angle bent. It is cast aluminum and the guy at the
scrap yard did not charge me for it.
Nice find. They go for $20-30 new around here. And that is without
the handle. Handles are sold separately. Had to buy mine new (1/2 and
3/4 in). Just scrounged up the appropriate sized pipes for handles.

What you got is what we just called a bender in this area. A Hickey is a
slightly different animal. Nice little pdf file I found he

https://www.quia.com/files/quia/user...onduit_Bending

It has a drawing on the first page of a regular EMT bender and a
Hickey. Brief description of usage. A lot of nice bending tips,
measurements too if you're new to this

This is a great doc on bending. Thanks.


Bending thin wall for the visual folks...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=keOGF3He83Y

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8EEsl66GR3I


--
Steve W.

On Tue, 1 Nov 2016 18:07:21 +0000 (UTC)
Cydrome Leader wrote:

snip
What were some of these tricks?

Mostly good for just the first bend on the end of a pipe...

You can usually gain 1/2 to 3/4 inch by starting with the conduit
farther back, not flush with the end of the bender. Also, you can make
the bend and then hacksaw off some of the end. Helps to have
the fitting you're going to use handy for testing. Use pliers to
reshape the end, remove some of the oval created by bending. Sometimes
that gain, maybe an inch or so was helpful to get something to fit in a
tight spot.

What Lloyd said if your not at an end. I would give your new hickey a
try, see what you can do after making a standard bend. Would love to
have tried that back in the day

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On 11/01/2016 12:56 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
....

I've not even bothered to try to get net 30 terms lately as it's just
too much of a hassle. With small places, if you are a regular, they just
offer it, no big deal. With any "corporate" type place there's 3 pages of
forms. I guess you can use NEBs or U-Line as credit reference, but I doubt
they'd reply to any such request. FWIW NEBs the check printer and U-Line
the packing supply place offers net 30 to anybody that can manage to just
ask them for it.

None here that I trade with regularly are "small-enough" to have such
open accounts as used to be common in the '40s/'50s/'60s but otoh none
that have had to deal with new forms changing names or businesses
changing hands have been more than one page at most. Even Stanion's new
one is one page only.

I've no trouble with enough local accounts to list as references plus
bank is locally owned and know them quite well so don't expect any real
hassles other than just having to go to the trouble of listing them down
again -- I don't have them memorized nor in a database although guess
this'll be the impetus for at least making a listing of the contact info
for future reference now...

It'd be such a hassle to have to always be sure had either checkbook or
even wallet every time had to run to town for parts or somesuch during
day if didn't have accounts; I generally don't carry such on me while
working, too much likelihood of never finding if were to lose it
somewhere so just generally don't. If I'm planning ahead it's not so
bad, but much of what happens is spur-of-moment need that occurs because
something breaks or the like...

I had more difficulties with some suppliers for the technical consulting
gig when dealing with instrumentation so could manage to invoice clients
prior to having to pay distributors more like your above, though. When
the existing contracts had in place when returned to the farm came to an
end, however, I let them all lapse and have reverted fully to the
farming enterprise since as it requires no travel (other than to/from
the field and lots of back'n forth or 'round 'n 'round therein, anyways!
).

Leon Fisk wrote:
On Tue, 1 Nov 2016 18:07:21 +0000 (UTC)
Cydrome Leader wrote:

snip
What were some of these tricks?

Mostly good for just the first bend on the end of a pipe...

You can usually gain 1/2 to 3/4 inch by starting with the conduit
farther back, not flush with the end of the bender. Also, you can make
the bend and then hacksaw off some of the end. Helps to have
the fitting you're going to use handy for testing. Use pliers to
reshape the end, remove some of the oval created by bending. Sometimes
that gain, maybe an inch or so was helpful to get something to fit in a
tight spot.

What Lloyd said if your not at an end. I would give your new hickey a
try, see what you can do after making a standard bend. Would love to
have tried that back in the day

Interesting - take the hickey to an existing bend, I could see that
working nicely. It's real finicky otherwise.

On Tue, 1 Nov 2016 17:56:44 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

dpb wrote:
On 10/30/2016 4:44 AM, dpb wrote:
...

Well, the "large" is comparatively, it's a regional outfit of about 20
locations in KS/MO. They go by Stanion Wholesale Electric. Doesn't keep
them from being most unfriendly price-wise to anything OTC, though...

When returned to family farm, there were existing farm accounts at all
the businesses with which do routine business and none other than
Stanion and one other which had changed ownership gave any hassle at all
in just changing name on accounts from Dad...the latter did require a
minimal credit form but Stanion's required a commitment of a continuing
level of activity on a monthly basis that obviously as farm just
generally don't have ongoing activity. So, w/ the loss of Sunflower
Electric (the other, locally-owned formerly great location now seemingly
dealing only in very large commercial activity as the storefront is
closed entirely and the only activity I see is large reels of cable and
other materials in/out of the lot), they're the only distributor in town
of all things electric outside what the Ace Hardware and Meade Do-It
Best outlet have. They'll cover the ordinary household wiring for the
most part, but will have nothing industrially-sized...

But, I did just for grins go look and I see the current credit
application at the Stanion site no longer does have the additional
requirements and will accept a list of existing other commercial
accounts as their references...I guess maybe they've gotten enough other
"pushback" to back off some, it appears. I may just have to have
another go at it--the local Mr Goodwrench dealership just changed hands
as well and they've been quite unaccomodating in transferring existing
accounts, too, so I've got to go thru the same exercise there
again...mayhaps as well do two rather than just one I suppose if have to
update the list at all...

I've not even bothered to try to get net 30 terms lately as it's just
too much of a hassle. With small places, if you are a regular, they just
offer it, no big deal. With any "corporate" type place there's 3 pages of
forms. I guess you can use NEBs or U-Line as credit reference, but I doubt
they'd reply to any such request. FWIW NEBs the check printer and U-Line
the packing supply place offers net 30 to anybody that can manage to just
ask them for it.
With the interest rates as low as they are today I just put
everything on my card - which gives me up to 30 days - and I only need
to sign one check each month. I get "points" on the card that more
than make up for any "lost interest" from not keeping my money in the
bank for another month.

A few places where i HAD 30 day terms I just switched over to my card.

On 11/01/2016 4:08 PM, wrote:
....

A few places where i HAD 30 day terms I just switched over to my card.

Many of the farm supply places don't take cards and/or if used them that
way would be _way_ over even the most generous of limits have on any of 'em.

The other is that there are those like Stanion that it makes big pricing
differential on whether you're on their "magic list" or not.

The 30-day float is, agreed, pretty much nil at current rates; that's
not the reason for open accounts, at least for me, altho for major items
it's sometimes needed to arrange for there to be cash in the proper
account at the time it's needed--when a single tractor refueling is in
the multi-hundred $$ range, monthly bills during active seasons are
sizable and while they're one of the constants, they're certainly not
the only...

On Tue, 01 Nov 2016 16:36:04 -0500, dpb wrote:

On 11/01/2016 4:08 PM, wrote:
...

A few places where i HAD 30 day terms I just switched over to my card.

Many of the farm supply places don't take cards and/or if used them that
way would be _way_ over even the most generous of limits have on any of 'em.

You just don't have good enough credit. I could buy any of my vehicles
with the lowest limit card I carry.. I could have bought my first
house under the limit of my higher one.

The other is that there are those like Stanion that it makes big pricing
differential on whether you're on their "magic list" or not.

I'm on th "magic list" with several suppliers where I use my card.

The 30-day float is, agreed, pretty much nil at current rates; that's
not the reason for open accounts, at least for me, altho for major items
it's sometimes needed to arrange for there to be cash in the proper
account at the time it's needed--when a single tractor refueling is in
the multi-hundred $$ range, monthly bills during active seasons are
sizable and while they're one of the constants, they're certainly not
the only...

fired this volley in
:

You just don't have good enough credit. I could buy any of my vehicles
with the lowest limit card I carry.. I could have bought my first
house under the limit of my higher one.

Pffft! I bought a new(ish) Chevy Suburban on a credit card. HAVING a
credit card isn't the trick -- keeping it paid-down is the trick!

Lloyd

On Tue, 01 Nov 2016 20:04:29 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

fired this volley in
:

You just don't have good enough credit. I could buy any of my vehicles
with the lowest limit card I carry.. I could have bought my first
house under the limit of my higher one.

Pffft! I bought a new(ish) Chevy Suburban on a credit card. HAVING a
credit card isn't the trick -- keeping it paid-down is the trick!

Lloyd
Haven't carried a balance for 10? years. Never carried a balance 2
months in a row.

On 2016-11-01, Leon Fisk wrote:
On 1 Nov 2016 04:11:03 GMT
"DoN. Nichols" wrote:

snip
The fun ones were more recent ones which had all the wires
embedded in clear silicone grease -- really messy to handle.

Icky-pick, see:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Icky-pick

Intersting -- and appropriate. :-)

Apparently, not silicone, so I was wrong there.

I was a two-way radio tech. The phone techs I had to work with had
their own vocabulary or rather slang. Icky-pick was one of them. Along
with dry pair, short, boot, tip, ring... always a lot of fun trying to
communicate back in forth in our individual terms ;-)

Well ... tip and ring come from the old 3-conductor phone plugs.
They were (from end back) tip, ring, and sleeve. On a manual
switchboard, sleeve was used to flag a line as busy -- and the operator
would hear a loud click when the tip of the phone plug touched the
sleeve of the jack, signaling her to not complete the connection (unless
a conference call was being set up.)

The same thing was done with the step-by-step Strowger switch (or
Ma Bell called it 10x10) exchanges. There were three wires (within the
exchange) associated with each line. Tip and Ring came from the outside
on the customer's line, and went to a double-sided bank of contacts
swept by a wiper. In parallel with that was a second bank, only single
contacts used, swept by another wiper. You pick up your phone, it draws
current through a "line relay", closing contacts to call a line finder
to connect your phone to the first level of dialing, and it feeds a
signal back on the sleeve connection to a cutoff relay which disconnects
your line from calling for more equipment until the current call is
over. Each digit you dial moves you to another switch, except that the
last two digits are handled by a single switch. It feeds voltage to the
called party's cut-off relay, and a ring signal to the phone pair (tip
and ring). When the called party picks up, DC flows through the line
(the ring signal was AC -- most commonly 20 Hz, except for some party
lines) and connects the full conversation link until both parties hang
up. (Actually -- the calling party hanging up resets everything quickly,
the called party is not so quick on these step-by-step exchanges.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 1 Nov 2016 04:11:03 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2016-10-31, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 31 Oct 2016 16:36:30 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

[ ... ]

All of a sudden, a cash sale was OK. Then I discovered that they
only stocked Black White & Brown THHN in 14 AWG. I needed to replace a
damaged wiring harness of over 200 conductors, so it was real fun with
only three colors.

I can only imagine.

Did you wear out a number-style label maker? I hated old Mercenary's
Bends (IIRC) repairs because of the numbered wires. Man, that was a
crispy old memory. Crap like this:
http://www.linkbelt.com/lit/images/p...ive_Wiring.jpg


Our military used the same method long ago.

I remember when I worked at a place which was making flight
simulators for the Navy, the cable harnesses had gazillions of 22 ga
white wires which were run through a machine which hot-stamped a number
every few inches -- and each wire had a different number, which matched
numbers in wire lists and on schematics. (Typical connectors were 104
pin rectangular ones with crimp-on pins.) The harness in the cockpit
was mostly the same 22 ga wires, in a bundle about 8" diameter.

Funny you should say that. I didn't make the cut at the F-14
Simulator shop on NAS Miramar because I didn't have bubble memory
experience, having just graduated from Coleman's Computer Electronics
Technology course. I'm very glad I didn't make it. g


And I remember cringing as a kid, when I saw the phone repairman with
the big fat bundle of tiny wires all splayed out.

But the phone company has a good system for keeping track of the
wires. 25 pair per sub-bundle, with each pair being made of a
particular pair of colors, and beyond that, a pair of colored thread
bundles wrapped around that, to distinguish bundles, following the same
color pattern.

The fun ones were more recent ones which had all the wires
embedded in clear silicone grease -- really messy to handle.

It has to be fun driving after that, too. Silicone is messy and
nasty. That was one of the things I hated about the car wash guys
using ArmorAll on the _steering_wheels_ before I test drove the
repaired cars at the body shop. I asked them if they were trying to
drum up new business for the shop.

--
If government were a product,
selling it would be illegal.
--P.J. O'Rourke

On 11/01/2016 7:43 PM, wrote:
....

You just don't have good enough credit. I could buy any of my vehicles
with the lowest limit card I carry.. I could have bought my first
house under the limit of my higher one.
....

Excepting if the vendor doesn't take cards...

I could have essentially unlimited line on them but wouldn't make any
difference for what I need to do.

On Tue, 1 Nov 2016 20:35:46 +0000 (UTC)
Cydrome Leader wrote:

snip
Interesting - take the hickey to an existing bend, I could see that
working nicely. It's real finicky otherwise.

I don't know how well it may work but that would be one of the first
things I would try if I had one

Now that I know of them, I keep watch for a good deal on one. Something
like Dan's scrap yard find. I like those kind of prices!

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

On 2016-11-02, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 1 Nov 2016 04:11:03 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:


[ ... ]

Did you wear out a number-style label maker? I hated old Mercenary's
Bends (IIRC) repairs because of the numbered wires. Man, that was a
crispy old memory. Crap like this:
http://www.linkbelt.com/lit/images/p...ive_Wiring.jpg


Our military used the same method long ago.

I remember when I worked at a place which was making flight
simulators for the Navy, the cable harnesses had gazillions of 22 ga
white wires which were run through a machine which hot-stamped a number
every few inches -- and each wire had a different number, which matched
numbers in wire lists and on schematics. (Typical connectors were 104
pin rectangular ones with crimp-on pins.) The harness in the cockpit
was mostly the same 22 ga wires, in a bundle about 8" diameter.

Funny you should say that. I didn't make the cut at the F-14
Simulator shop on NAS Miramar because I didn't have bubble memory
experience, having just graduated from Coleman's Computer Electronics
Technology course. I'm very glad I didn't make it. g

This was before bubble memory came (and went). :-) The simulator
was for the LTV A7-A -- a carrier based light attack aircraft.

And I did not have to worry about being stuck with it for long.
As soon as it was accepted by the Navy, it would get shipped off to
wherever they wanted it, and we were done with it.

And I remember cringing as a kid, when I saw the phone repairman with
the big fat bundle of tiny wires all splayed out.

[ ... ]

The fun ones were more recent ones which had all the wires
embedded in clear silicone grease -- really messy to handle.

It has to be fun driving after that, too.

I'll bet.

Silicone is messy and
nasty.

We used to use it to insulate some HV trigger coils for flash
lamps in lasers. I hated to work with that, too. I never did find a
way to clean it off quickly and easily.

That was one of the things I hated about the car wash guys
using ArmorAll on the _steering_wheels_ before I test drove the
repaired cars at the body shop. I asked them if they were trying to
drum up new business for the shop.

Who would have paid for the repairs after that? (You-- or was
it that the owners would not be expecting the slick steering wheel? :-)

I didn't know what ArmorAll was a silicone oil/grease.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 3 Nov 2016 01:18:30 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2016-11-02, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 1 Nov 2016 04:11:03 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:


[ ... ]

Did you wear out a number-style label maker? I hated old Mercenary's
Bends (IIRC) repairs because of the numbered wires. Man, that was a
crispy old memory. Crap like this:
http://www.linkbelt.com/lit/images/p...ive_Wiring.jpg


Our military used the same method long ago.

I remember when I worked at a place which was making flight
simulators for the Navy, the cable harnesses had gazillions of 22 ga
white wires which were run through a machine which hot-stamped a number
every few inches -- and each wire had a different number, which matched
numbers in wire lists and on schematics. (Typical connectors were 104
pin rectangular ones with crimp-on pins.) The harness in the cockpit
was mostly the same 22 ga wires, in a bundle about 8" diameter.

Funny you should say that. I didn't make the cut at the F-14
Simulator shop on NAS Miramar because I didn't have bubble memory
experience, having just graduated from Coleman's Computer Electronics
Technology course. I'm very glad I didn't make it. g

This was before bubble memory came (and went). :-) The simulator
was for the LTV A7-A -- a carrier based light attack aircraft.

And I did not have to worry about being stuck with it for long.
As soon as it was accepted by the Navy, it would get shipped off to
wherever they wanted it, and we were done with it.

And I remember cringing as a kid, when I saw the phone repairman with
the big fat bundle of tiny wires all splayed out.

[ ... ]

The fun ones were more recent ones which had all the wires
embedded in clear silicone grease -- really messy to handle.

It has to be fun driving after that, too.

I'll bet.

Silicone is messy and
nasty.

We used to use it to insulate some HV trigger coils for flash
lamps in lasers. I hated to work with that, too. I never did find a
way to clean it off quickly and easily.

That was one of the things I hated about the car wash guys
using ArmorAll on the _steering_wheels_ before I test drove the
repaired cars at the body shop. I asked them if they were trying to
drum up new business for the shop.

Who would have paid for the repairs after that? (You-- or was
it that the owners would not be expecting the slick steering wheel? :-)

I didn't know what ArmorAll was a silicone oil/grease.

Enjoy,
DoN.
You find out real quick when you try to paint something that has had
ArmorAll sprayed on or near it. The fish-eyes never end!!!!

Of the ArmorAll products only Natural Finish Detailer Protectant is
silicone free

On 3 Nov 2016 01:18:30 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2016-11-02, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 1 Nov 2016 04:11:03 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:


[ ... ]

Did you wear out a number-style label maker? I hated old Mercenary's
Bends (IIRC) repairs because of the numbered wires. Man, that was a
crispy old memory. Crap like this:
http://www.linkbelt.com/lit/images/p...ive_Wiring.jpg


Our military used the same method long ago.

I remember when I worked at a place which was making flight
simulators for the Navy, the cable harnesses had gazillions of 22 ga
white wires which were run through a machine which hot-stamped a number
every few inches -- and each wire had a different number, which matched
numbers in wire lists and on schematics. (Typical connectors were 104
pin rectangular ones with crimp-on pins.) The harness in the cockpit
was mostly the same 22 ga wires, in a bundle about 8" diameter.

Funny you should say that. I didn't make the cut at the F-14
Simulator shop on NAS Miramar because I didn't have bubble memory
experience, having just graduated from Coleman's Computer Electronics
Technology course. I'm very glad I didn't make it. g

This was before bubble memory came (and went). :-) The simulator
was for the LTV A7-A -- a carrier based light attack aircraft.

That was the only instance I heard of bubble memory to this day. It
didn't exist in the real world.


Silicone is messy and
nasty.

We used to use it to insulate some HV trigger coils for flash
lamps in lasers. I hated to work with that, too. I never did find a
way to clean it off quickly and easily.

Nor did I.


That was one of the things I hated about the car wash guys
using ArmorAll on the _steering_wheels_ before I test drove the
repaired cars at the body shop. I asked them if they were trying to
drum up new business for the shop.

Who would have paid for the repairs after that? (You-- or was
it that the owners would not be expecting the slick steering wheel? :-)

I didn't know what ArmorAll was a silicone oil/grease.

Thread drift. I expanded the thread to include all silicones since I
haven't worked that much with the com cable goo. I did work with
automotive silicone dielectric goo products. Another nasty product is
the heatsink goo for CPUs.

--
If government were a product,
selling it would be illegal.
--P.J. O'Rourke

On Wed, 02 Nov 2016 22:46:28 -0400, wrote:

On 3 Nov 2016 01:18:30 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2016-11-02, Larry Jaques wrote:

That was one of the things I hated about the car wash guys
using ArmorAll on the _steering_wheels_ before I test drove the
repaired cars at the body shop. I asked them if they were trying to
drum up new business for the shop.

Who would have paid for the repairs after that? (You-- or was
it that the owners would not be expecting the slick steering wheel? :-)

The shop, once the owners sued. One idiot put it on the brake pedal,
too. Talk about fun!


I didn't know what ArmorAll was a silicone oil/grease.

Enjoy,
DoN.
You find out real quick when you try to paint something that has had
ArmorAll sprayed on or near it. The fish-eyes never end!!!!

Of the ArmorAll products only Natural Finish Detailer Protectant is
silicone free

The painter refused to let the car wash idiots anywhere near the paint
shop. And the only fix for fish-eyes in paint is to add silicone to
IT before spraying. Nasty, nasty, nasty.

--
If government were a product,
selling it would be illegal.
--P.J. O'Rourke

On 2016-11-03, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 3 Nov 2016 01:18:30 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

On 2016-11-02, Larry Jaques wrote:
On 1 Nov 2016 04:11:03 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

[ ... ]

I remember when I worked at a place which was making flight
simulators for the Navy, the cable harnesses had gazillions of 22 ga
white wires which were run through a machine which hot-stamped a number
every few inches -- and each wire had a different number, which matched
numbers in wire lists and on schematics. (Typical connectors were 104
pin rectangular ones with crimp-on pins.) The harness in the cockpit
was mostly the same 22 ga wires, in a bundle about 8" diameter.

Funny you should say that. I didn't make the cut at the F-14
Simulator shop on NAS Miramar because I didn't have bubble memory
experience, having just graduated from Coleman's Computer Electronics
Technology course. I'm very glad I didn't make it. g

This was before bubble memory came (and went). :-) The simulator
was for the LTV A7-A -- a carrier based light attack aircraft.

That was the only instance I heard of bubble memory to this day. It
didn't exist in the real world.

I actually *had* a bubble memory for a while. I picked it up at
a hamfest, planning to find some use for it -- but before that happened,
I encountered someone desperately looking for one of the same type to
repair something -- so I sold it.

I had read about it before, and thought that it sounded
interesting.

[ ... ]

That was one of the things I hated about the car wash guys
using ArmorAll on the _steering_wheels_ before I test drove the
repaired cars at the body shop. I asked them if they were trying to
drum up new business for the shop.

Who would have paid for the repairs after that? (You-- or was
it that the owners would not be expecting the slick steering wheel? :-)

I didn't know what ArmorAll was a silicone oil/grease.

Thread drift.

Thread drift is common enough here. At least this did not drift
in a political direction. :-)

I expanded the thread to include all silicones since I
haven't worked that much with the com cable goo. I did work with
automotive silicone dielectric goo products. Another nasty product is
the heatsink goo for CPUs.

Not just for CPUs, but for *any* power semiconductor device.
(There are actually goo-free heat-sink pads used in some CPUs, including
some that Sun made.) A silicone rubber pad with a lot of embedded silver
to conduct the heat well.

The old white goo has something in it which I suspect to be
beryllium based -- nasty stuff without the silicone grease to keep it
from blowing around. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 3 Nov 2016 01:18:30 GMT, "DoN. Nichols"
wrote:

I didn't know what ArmorAll was a silicone oil/grease.

Years ago was between real jobs and had the misfortune to be working
in construction. Large remodel job that lasted for months, full
basement finish with wet bar, huge deck, new sunroom and fire
place... One day large white spots and foot prints suddenly appeared
in his concrete driveway. The sunroom and fireplace were both in
progress at the time and the home owner blamed our stucco sub
contractors. Partially based on the size of the foot prints, "They
must have spilled acid or something!"

Turns out it was his car detailers had spilled a whole bottle of
ArmorAll in the driveway. I occasionally did 'handyman' type work
for him for several years afterwards and even after several pressure
washings and applications of sealer the white spots were still
visible.

Silicone can be nasty stuff.
--
William

On Tue, 25 Oct 2016 10:40:44 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Oct 2016 10:35:23 -0400
Leon Fisk wrote:

Original poster was:

Cydrome Leader

May 17

I was looking for a 1/2" EMC hickey for some tight, ugly bends, but
don't see any in any catalogs. A few places still make rigid/IMC
hickeys for 1/2 but are these compatible or they too loose, and will
collapse thinwall?

I have a set of rigid hickeys and a set of EMT benders. A 1/2" hickey
WILL collapse EMT but there is a way to bend EMT with a hickey.

Fill the EMT with moist sand. Compact it well with some sort of
vibrator. An air hammer or jitterbug will work. Flatten each end and
either weld the end or bend it over using a vice and hammer.

Make your bends. It is practically like bending solid rod. Cut the
collapsed portion off and vibrate out the sand. An air blast will
remove all the sand.

It's a lot of work but it's the best way I know short of buying a
dedicated floor-mount tube bender.

John
John DeArmond
http://www.neon-john.com
http://www.tnduction.com
Tellico Plains, Occupied TN
See website for email address

wrote:

You COULD have bought more than one roll of each color - this would
reduce the time spent = quite possibly enough to pay for any waste
wire left over after the job (which could be used on another job,
anyway)


No, I couldn't. They only had one roll of each color. They couldn't
be bothered to order more. It was interesting that right after I bought
the wire and a few other items that a building inspector showed up and
tried to shut down the project. He had no idea about industrial
electrical work, and he turned pale when I tossed him my copy of the NEC
and asked what he knew about the industrial and theatrical areas of the
code. He yelled, "I'm going to get a cease and desist order!" as he ran
out of the building but he never came back. I guess that the filings
with the FCC and FAA construction permits stopped him.

You don't know that area. (Destin/Sandestin, Florida) It is full of
expensive condos, and no one wants to sell supplies to anyone except the
big contractors who order things in advance. I had a hell of a time
finding some 3" copper pipe, and I had ended up buying some materials
from a scrapyard that had bought the leftover materials for a canceled
nuclear power plant.


--
Never **** off an Engineer!

They don't get mad.

They don't get even.

They go for over unity! ;-)

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 31 Oct 2016 16:36:30 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:

Cydrome Leader wrote:

Ha!

6 feet of romex. The friendly electrical supply house here will load your
vehicle up even if you're clearly not in the trade. The other places with
the shiny showrooms seem to be bothered by any sort of counter sale. They
also seem to have huge warehouses full of nothing as even simple stuff
doesn't seem to be in stock for some reason. I don't get it, but whatever.


Around 1990, I was building a TV station in Destin, Florida. There
was a branch of an electrical supply house that I used, back home. They
refused to sell to me. So, I smiled and said, "No problem. I'm going
home on Friday evening, so I'll by it at that branch. I'll also ask the
manager to contact corporate, to report you."

All of a sudden, a cash sale was OK. Then I discovered that they
only stocked Black White & Brown THHN in 14 AWG. I needed to replace a
damaged wiring harness of over 200 conductors, so it was real fun with
only three colors.

I can only imagine.

Did you wear out a number-style label maker? I hated old Mercenary's
Bends (IIRC) repairs because of the numbered wires. Man, that was a
crispy old memory. Crap like this:
http://www.linkbelt.com/lit/images/p...ive_Wiring.jpg


I used the Brady printed labels, and covered them with clear heat
shrink.


Our military used the same method long ago.

And I remember cringing as a kid, when I saw the phone repairman with
the big fat bundle of tiny wires all splayed out.


The new FAA building at Ft Rucker, Al. had a phone room on each
floor, with 1200 pairs, and walls covered with 66 blocks. That was over
40 years ago. 20 years later, they would have needed under 100 pair,
each with a SLIC for up to 16 lines.

The color coding was easy to learn. I repaired a lot of 1A2 phone
systems. I still have a few hundred feet of 25 pair cable, somewhere
around here.



--
Never **** off an Engineer!

They don't get mad.

They don't get even.

They go for over unity! ;-)

DoN. Nichols wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

This was before bubble memory came (and went). :-) The simulator
was for the LTV A7-A -- a carrier based light attack aircraft.

That was the only instance I heard of bubble memory to this day. It
didn't exist in the real world.

I actually *had* a bubble memory for a while. I picked it up at
a hamfest, planning to find some use for it -- but before that happened,
I encountered someone desperately looking for one of the same type to
repair something -- so I sold it.

I had read about it before, and thought that it sounded
interesting.


We had a Texas Instruments IBM clone with bubble memory for billing
at the Cincinnati, Ohio 'United Video' CATV front office. It was
supplied by the data processing supplier. More than once, it was dead
when we started the day's business. Their service tech would have to
come out, and reload the operating system into the bubble memory, so I
have no love for the stuff. That replaced an older, NCR terminal with a
tape drive where the payments were entered, and transmitted at the end
of the day.


--
Never **** off an Engineer!

They don't get mad.

They don't get even.

They go for over unity! ;-)

Cydrome Leader wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Cydrome Leader wrote:

Ha!

6 feet of romex. The friendly electrical supply house here will load your
vehicle up even if you're clearly not in the trade. The other places with
the shiny showrooms seem to be bothered by any sort of counter sale. They
also seem to have huge warehouses full of nothing as even simple stuff
doesn't seem to be in stock for some reason. I don't get it, but whatever.


Around 1990, I was building a TV station in Destin, Florida. There
was a branch of an electrical supply house that I used, back home. They
refused to sell to me. So, I smiled and said, "No problem. I'm going
home on Friday evening, so I'll by it at that branch. I'll also ask the
manager to contact corporate, to report you."

All of a sudden, a cash sale was OK. Then I discovered that they
only stocked Black White & Brown THHN in 14 AWG. I needed to replace a
damaged wiring harness of over 200 conductors, so it was real fun with
only three colors.

Awful. Did you do colored tape wraps, like phone cable?


Brady wire markers that matched the terminal numbers, and covered
with clear heatshrink. I ran a repeating color pattern, as I ran three
conductors at a time through some expandable wire looming. I also
formed the leads so that it was obvious where each wire was meant to
go. It took three full days to make the replacement for the early '50s
rubber covered wire that RCA had used in the original harness. You
could hear the rubber cracking, when the old harness was moved. They had
lost the original 1 KW transmitter stages to an electrical fire, so I
wasn't going to chance another fire. Thar transmitter was used in at
least three different sites. The fire was two locations before I moved
and rebuilt it.


--
Never **** off an Engineer!

They don't get mad.

They don't get even.

They go for over unity! ;-)

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...
...
I used the Brady printed labels, and covered them with clear heat
shrink.
...

When I made cable harnesses for the batch of electric cars [the
customer] paid to have us label each wire with printed heatshrink
labels:
https://www.brother-usa.com/mobile/l...able_wire.aspx

I've used a fine Sharpie on paper labels for home projects but the
writing diffuses and fades under clear adhesive tape.

--jsw

Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...
...
I used the Brady printed labels, and covered them with clear heat
shrink.
...

When I made cable harnesses for the batch of electric cars [the
customer] paid to have us label each wire with printed heatshrink
labels:
https://www.brother-usa.com/mobile/l...able_wire.aspx

I've used a fine Sharpie on paper labels for home projects but the
writing diffuses and fades under clear adhesive tape.


I switched to clear heatshrink, before the mid '80s. I was using it
on my shop cables, to stop people from claiming that they had brought
cables with equipment, when they didn't. I would type on address labels,
then trim and wrap them on the cable before applying the heatshrink
tubing. The labels had a description, and the date that they were made.


--
Never **** off an Engineer!

They don't get mad.

They don't get even.

They go for over unity! ;-)

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...
Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...
...
I used the Brady printed labels, and covered them with clear
heat
shrink.
...

When I made cable harnesses for the batch of electric cars [the
customer] paid to have us label each wire with printed heatshrink
labels:
https://www.brother-usa.com/mobile/l...able_wire.aspx

I've used a fine Sharpie on paper labels for home projects but the
writing diffuses and fades under clear adhesive tape.


I switched to clear heatshrink, before the mid '80s. I was using
it on my shop cables, to stop people from claiming that they had
brought cables with equipment, when they didn't. I would type on
address labels, then trim and wrap them on the cable before applying
the heatshrink tubing. The labels had a description, and the date
that they were made.

Clear heatshrink is fine when you are making the cable but not so easy
afterward, or to add to commercial cables with molded connectors.

I've used these but they snag and not everyone can do
draftsman-quality lettering.
http://www.tiewraps.com/idtagtw_flag_page.html

--jsw