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  #101   Report Post  
Old March 12th 16, 07:35 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default No Gorbal warming...in...58 yrs....


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 20:54:50 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 18:37:47 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
m...
On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 12:51:48 -0800, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 19:25:29 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
news:[email protected] .com...
It looks to me like we have more than ever before. I'm not
complaining
about it.

--
Ed Huntress


--jsw

You AGW believers collectively. This is what the experts know
you
should be doing to reduce your personal carbon footprint:
http://cotap.org/reduce-carbon-footprint/
They forgot about hanging laundry outdoors, the heater in an
electric
dryer is a huge unnecessary waste.

Since you have a lathe you can convert round trash barrels ($12
at
HD)
into inexpensive rain barrels ($100 at HD) and avoid watering
your
lawn with treated drinking water by threading the barbed end of
a
hose
coupler and mounting it in the lower side wall, with an O ring
on
the
outside and the appropriate stainless nut and washer on the
inside.
Landscaping fabric over hardware cloth across the top will keep
out
gutter debris and mosquitos.

During the winter I store chainsaw chips and chopped-up tree
branches
from the yard in the barrels, to use as kindling.

Pressing on and clamping a short piece of hose onto the barbs
inside
might be enough to make the watertight seal, but the inside
bottom
of
the barrel is a difficult place to apply much force.

My carbon footprint went down in 1971, when I grokked Earth Day
for
the first time.

I replaced my front lawn with chips and plantings of shrubs and
flowers with a single drip irrigation system for the entire 1/3
acre
of my land.

All but one of my light bulbs (75w pump house warmth) is either
CFL
or
LED. My electric bill is $40/mo, and I have a new timer for the
electric water heater. Once I get the new solar panels
installed,
I'll also have a 24v 900w element going into that water heater,
replacing one of the two 240vac energy suckers. The timer will
come
on for one hour, if necessary, each day before I get up. I'm
not
going to feed the grid because that means I'd have to get a net
meter.


My sister has a rain barrel diverter for me to pick up. So far,
it's
legal to catch my rain in Oregon, unlike Colorado. That just
floors
me, that you're fined for NOT allowing runoff in CO!

I fill 1/3 of a 13gal tall kitchen trash bag each week and
recycle
the
rest. All paper, cardboard, plastic, cans, and bottles are
recycled.

Old Weird Ed probably has a carbon footprint the size of
Algore's,
but
I doubt he has the stock options in all the carbon control
companies
Algore has.

This weather station distribution map is telling, too. I
believe
Hansen, et al, had something to do with their removal, too.
http://climateaudit.org/2008/02/10/h...-distribution/
Amazingly (wink, wink) with fewer stations reporting and only
the
hotter stations being included in the dataset, Earth is warming!

ohmigodwereallgonnadie...

I paved my front yard with recycled garbage-can lids and we run
bath
water into our kitchen sink. I ride a bicyle 30 miles every day,
and
my wife makes our clothes from dryer lint, to make up for the
clothes
dryer.

Dinner tonight is fried squirrel from the back yard, and
composted
tomato plants from last summer. After dark, I'm going out to gig
some
spring peepers for tomorrow night's dinner. We eat one meal a
day.

--
Ed Huntress

When stuffed Garfields were the craze I lashed together a small
Native-American-style hide stretching frame holding a Garfield
skin
and hung it in my vehicle. Soon after that I stopped seeing them.

You didn't waste Garfield, did you? I hope you ate him...
--
Ed Huntress


I ground up the polyester stuffing into artificial coffee creamer.


Ha-ha! Maybe that's where we're headed.

--
Ed Huntress


All we need is to engineer microbes that convert old plastics into
digestible sugars, fats, proteins etc, like the microbes in a
termite's gut that break down cellulose fibers.
http://phys.org/news/2013-08-termite...urce-fuel.html





  #102   Report Post  
Old March 12th 16, 08:52 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default No Gorbal warming...in...58 yrs....

On Fri, 11 Mar 2016, Larry Jacques wrote:

On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 19:25:29 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote: .

My carbon footprint went down in 1971, when I grokked Earth Day for
the first time.


So you've known about the environmentalist need for quite awhile, now. That need would have never been advocated nationally if their were no reason.

I replaced my front lawn with chips and plantings of shrubs and
flowers with a single drip irrigation system for the entire 1/3 acre
of my land.

Once I get the new solar panels installed, I'll also have a 24v
900w element going into that water heater,
replacing one of the two 240vac energy suckers. The timer will come
on for one hour, if necessary, each day before I get up. I'm not
going to feed the grid because that means I'd have to get a net meter.

My sister has a rain barrel diverter for me to pick up. So far, it's
legal to catch my rain in Oregon, unlike Colorado.


I'm going to... I'm going to... I'm going to...I'm going to... You've known about the need almost 45 years.

Old Weird Ed probably has a carbon footprint the size of Algore's, but
I doubt he has the stock options in all the carbon control companies
Algore has.

This weather station distribution map is telling, too. I believe
Hansen, et al, had something to do with their removal, too.
http://climateaudit.org/2008/02/10/h...-distribution/
Amazingly (wink, wink) with fewer stations reporting and only the
hotter stations being included in the dataset, Earth is warming!

ohmigodwereallgonnadie...


Why bother with any action then? Just keep limiting your effort to blabber.
  #103   Report Post  
Old March 12th 16, 11:05 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default No Gorbal warming...in...58 yrs....

On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 20:48:32 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"John B." wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 20:51:11 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"John B." wrote in message
...
On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 07:45:49 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
om...

Lets look at an infrared photo from above the Boston area shall
we?
http://www.urbanheatislands.com/_/rs...urban_area.png

So tell me...which part of the photo has the correct overall
temperature? Hummm? Snicker....

http://www.urbanheatislands.com/\

http://wattsupwiththat.com/2015/11/1...-temperatures/


If you can follow it, this article explains how CO2 dominates the
heat
radiation lost to space from the upper atmosphere at certain
wavelengths, allowing us to measure its contribution to Earth's
energy
flow without the confusion from other sources that the maps show.
http://clivebest.com/blog/?p=1169
"At these levels there is little water vapour and CO2 dominates
the
energy loss."

"Therefore the main physics arguement supporting enhanced global
warming caused by increasing levels of CO2 is the in height and
thereby lower temperature of the effective radiating level of the
atmosphere to space."

"As we rise up in the atmosphere so the density falls
exponentially
and only at heights of 8-9 kms does the atmosphere then become
transparent in the main CO2 bands allowing energy loss direct to
space."

"Feedback Effects" exposes the main weakness of AGW theory, the
unproven assumption that water will amplify the admittedly tiny
contribution of CO2 to global warming.

This is analogous to measuring rainfall by observing the water
flowing
over a dam. There are too many ways that water can enter the lake,
but
only one way for it to leave, and the output has to balance the
input;
the lake can't store much extra water because a small rise in its
level greatly increases the flow over the dam.

Similarly measuring CO2's radiative emission into space with
satellites bypasses the complication of all the ways CO2 receives
and -briefly- stores heat from the Earth. CO2 can't permanently
trap
heat, only modulate its release.

--jsw


Be that as it may, ice core studies virtually prove that increases
in
temperature and increases in CO2 in the atmosphere have been
occurring
at the same time for something like 400,000 years.

While this may not "prove" cause and effect they would certainly
make
one think that there might be a relationship.

--
cheers,

John B.

It certainly doesn't prove there was an industrial society filling
the
air with CO2 400,000 years ago. We can safely assume that the
temperature and CO2 variations were natural.
http://www.livescience.com/44330-jur...n-dioxide.html

I want to see the questions researched honestly and openly, instead
of
suppressing data that doesn't support prejudices.


The point was that the CO2 and higher temperatures did coincide. I
don't think that the ice core studies claimed any cause and
effect...
as I believe I said.

Quite obviously temperature and, or, CO2 changes some 400,000 years
ago were not the results of human endeavor :-)

--
cheers,

John B.


This shows one reason why the higher temperature could be a cause
rather than an effect.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/ga...er-d_1148.html
Cold water can hold more gas than hot water. Also it can hold many
times as much CO2 as oxygen or nitrogen.


I suspect that the truth of the matter is that the temperature is
getting warmer and no one actually knows why nor whether this is
simply an anomaly or indicative of the beginning of a major
temperature cycle.
--
cheers,

John B.

  #104   Report Post  
Old March 12th 16, 11:54 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default No Gorbal warming...in...58 yrs....

"John B." wrote in message
...
On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 20:48:32 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


I suspect that the truth of the matter is that the temperature is
getting warmer and no one actually knows why nor whether this is
simply an anomaly or indicative of the beginning of a major
temperature cycle.
--
cheers,

John B.


We have long since passed the point where it might be possible to find
out through unpoliticized objective research. The cure may be to
require the Believers to obey their own demands.
http://www.nrdc.org/globalwarming/solutions/

--jsw


  #105   Report Post  
Old March 13th 16, 01:58 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default No Gorbal warming...in...58 yrs....

On Saturday, March 12, 2016 at 3:05:32 PM UTC-8, John B. wrote:

I suspect that the truth of the matter is that the temperature is
getting warmer and no one actually knows why nor whether this is
simply an anomaly or indicative of the beginning of a major
temperature cycle.


Get better suspicions. The effect was predictable, has
a known cause. No knowledge, however, predicts any natural
recovery to the initial state, as a "cycle" would suggest.

The "simply an anomaly" label suggests we should not try to understand it.
Related language: "ideopathic", "unknown and unknowable", "great mystery",
"will of God".

People aren't capable of not trying to understand, though. That's why
we put the 'sapiens' in 'homo sapiens'.


  #106   Report Post  
Old March 13th 16, 03:35 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default No Gorbal warming...in...58 yrs....

On 3/8/2016 11:03 PM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 8 Mar 2016 22:32:05 -0800 (PST), whit3rd
wrote:

On Tuesday, March 8, 2016 at 2:03:51 PM UTC-8, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 8 Mar 2016 13:09:31 -0800 (PST), whit3rd
wrote:

On Monday, March 7, 2016 at 5:17:57 PM UTC-8, Gunner Asch wrote:
http://realclimatescience.com/2016/0...-for-58-years/

Fascinating...really fascinating.....

No, irrelevant. You don't ignore the heat capacity of oceans, soil, and dismiss
the temperature of lower atmosphere that's in contact with the oceans and soil,
if you want a temperature measurement. That upper-atmosphere data is
of such a tiny bit of matter, by comparison, that it can be safely ignored.
The temperature of the vacuum of space is measurable; it can't tell you
anything about global warming, either.


Yet the global temperature has remained unchanged for 58 yrs..


In the last 58 years I recall, it has been cold every winter and warm every
summer. What planet are you from?


Were you dropped on your head recently, or did you have a stroke? Off
your meds? Or simply a Global Warming Zealot who is ****y about the
data I provided?


No data, as usual.

  #107   Report Post  
Old March 13th 16, 06:05 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default No Gorbal warming...in...58 yrs....

On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 22:19:21 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 18:52:03 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


This also sterilizes the tank at least
once a year although I'm on treated town water.


I never even thought to sterilize a water heater tank. Why would
you?
A 3 gallon crock sits on my sink and I filter water into that for
cooking and drinking. I just backwashed the Point One filter this
morning before cleaning (quarterly) and refilling the crock.
http://tinyurl.com/gtz6ece Great filters. I keep one of these in
my
BOB: http://tinyurl.com/z2a5lsp


http://www.treehugger.com/green-food...mperature.html

http://wwwnc.cdc.gov/eid/article/12/4/pdfs/05-1101.pdf

You may have become immune to whatever you are constantly exposed to
but not sickened by.


I don't have chlorinated water, either. AFAIK, rust bacteria aren't
harmful, but I do have those. Perhaps the dial will go up once I
settle with the solar system, JIC.

--
Our main business is not to see what lies dimly at
a distance but to do what lies clearly at hand.
--Thomas Carlyle
  #108   Report Post  
Old March 13th 16, 06:06 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default No Gorbal warming...in...58 yrs....

On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 22:45:19 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 18:52:03 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:



The wood stove heats laundry or dish water as hot as needed. One of
the thermocouple channels displayed upstairs is dedicated to water
or
food temperature, with a new Inconel probe because I don't know the
previous use of the second-hand probes.


I wouldn't reuse an old probe in food, either. How are you plumbed
the wood stove?


There's no plumbing in the stove, I heat laundry water on top in
kettles and pour them into the washing machine. I keep my firebrick
collection stacked under the stove in case some day the added weight
of the water might collapse a leg.


So it's automated via cheap help? Got it.

--
Our main business is not to see what lies dimly at
a distance but to do what lies clearly at hand.
--Thomas Carlyle
  #110   Report Post  
Old March 13th 16, 06:44 AM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default No Gorbal warming...in...58 yrs....

On Fri, 11 Mar 2016 07:13:42 -0800, wrote:

On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 19:19:56 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 13:53:48 -0800,
wrote:

On Thu, 10 Mar 2016 13:14:45 -0500, Ed Huntress
wrote:

Ed, you are one kind soul to attempt to bring facts and reason into
this discussion. My take on the subject is that it is one of many
where regular Joes should best accept the collective wisdom of the
experts. I'm surprised that I'm still incredulous about small-brained
people having "beliefs" about complicated subjects they judge mostly
by irrelevant personal observations, anecdotes, and fringe web pages.
While digging into the details might be work, finding the
well-researched and well-accepted conclusions is easy. Those who
insist on putting their opinion above the science are frequently
birthers, etc. The willfully ignorant are hopeless and it's a sorry
state of affairs that so much energy is wasted trying to fix them.


Thanks, Kidding, but facts and reason have no effect. This thing is
tribal -- like Trump supporters. As we've seen for several years, they
don't even read their own "cites."

There's a good piece on the phenomenon in the NYT today:

http://tinyurl.com/zfg8fmf

As you say, pretending that they -- or any of us here -- know enough
about climatology to have an opinion worth the powder it would take to
blow it to hell is ridiculous. It's all about resentment and
conspiracies.


The ignorati have been feeding and feeding off the GOP for a long
time. That has fueled Trump who's shamelessly taking it to the next
level. To guarantee the votes of those he politely calls "poorly
educated," he promises to do things that don't make sense and can't be
done, safe in the knowledge that his supporters are stupid. But he's
missing an opportunity. A big part of science is peer review. Climate
change deniers like Trump and his tribe should propose and support
repeal and replacement of peer review. The obvious and sure to be
popular solution is a reality TV show where the tribe's respected
minds such as Honey Boo Boo and any Kardashian, cage fight to the
death to decide the validity of every scientific issue. Watch this
movie https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Idiocracy, which seems more and
more like a documentary, to see where we're headed.



??

https://www.skepticalscience.com/pee...edskeptics.php

http://www.nationalreview.com/articl...sus-ian-tuttle

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...global_warming

https://www.nas.org/articles/Estimat...lobal_Warming\

etc etc etc


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