This is good stuff for anybody concerned about safety...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBxOKHBTTI0

John Doe wrote:
This is good stuff for anybody concerned about safety...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBxOKHBTTI0

Never seen one burn that long before with the tank removed.

And what is the difference in the tanks ?

Is the alt models higher pressure ? Charge the internal (handle) tank full ?

Martin

On 10/22/2015 10:02 AM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
John Doe wrote:
This is good stuff for anybody concerned about safety...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBxOKHBTTI0

Never seen one burn that long before with the tank removed.

Martin Eastburn fired this volley in
:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBxOKHBTTI0

It's a bunch of pure bull****. There is NOTHING in that handle that can
store that amount of gas! There's only a tiny tube about 1/8" i.d. from
the canister needle to the valve.

Someone has created that vid through editing.

Lloyd

On Thu, 22 Oct 2015 19:02:25 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Martin Eastburn fired this volley in
:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBxOKHBTTI0

It's a bunch of pure bull****. There is NOTHING in that handle that can
store that amount of gas! There's only a tiny tube about 1/8" i.d. from
the canister needle to the valve.

Someone has created that vid through editing.

Yeah, has to be hacked. No torch head can store 15 seconds of gas
like that. I believe the burp, but not the long burn. Not at all.

--
Some people confuse change with progress.
--Abraham Lincoln

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
...

On Thu, 22 Oct 2015 19:02:25 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Martin Eastburn fired this volley in
:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBxOKHBTTI0

It's a bunch of pure bull****. There is NOTHING in that handle that can
store that amount of gas! There's only a tiny tube about 1/8" i.d. from
the canister needle to the valve.

Someone has created that vid through editing.

Yeah, has to be hacked. No torch head can store 15 seconds of gas
like that. I believe the burp, but not the long burn. Not at all.

--
Some people confuse change with progress.
--Abraham Lincoln
================================================== ==============

Any chance he held the tank down so the torch head could flood with liquid
propane before removing the tank? Think how long a Bic lighter burns on a
couple of mL of liquid butane; this is a much bigger flame but I think it is
possible a small slug of liquid could explain it.

----
Regards,
Carl Ijames

On Thu, 22 Oct 2015 22:22:15 -0400, "Carl Ijames"
wrote:

Any chance he held the tank down so the torch head could flood with liquid
propane before removing the tank? Think how long a Bic lighter burns on a
couple of mL of liquid butane; this is a much bigger flame but I think it is
possible a small slug of liquid could explain it.

That would help explain it, but I sincerely doubt it would run for
more than a full second, even on a liquid fill. There's just no
storage in those heads.

--
Some people confuse change with progress.
--Abraham Lincoln

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Martin Eastburn fired:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBxOKHBTTI0

It's a bunch of pure bull****.

How many times have you tried doing exactly that?

I don't plan on removing the torch head, but for anyone who regularly
does, they definitely should try that and find out.

Somehow I doubt that farmer is a master at video editing. If I were
really interested, I would ask which torch head he was using. Apparently
the propane tanks were the common Coleman kind.

John Doe wrote:
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Martin Eastburn fired:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBxOKHBTTI0
It's a bunch of pure bull****.

How many times have you tried doing exactly that?

I don't plan on removing the torch head, but for anyone who regularly
does, they definitely should try that and find out.

Somehow I doubt that farmer is a master at video editing. If I were
really interested, I would ask which torch head he was using. Apparently
the propane tanks were the common Coleman kind.

I have the same torch and have used it with propane (both the common
"torch" tanks and the Coleman style) and MAPP The longest I have ever
had it burn after pulling the tank off was less than a second.
I pull the tank after every use and purge the torch.

As stated there is not enough fuel storage in the torch head to burn
that long.

--
Steve W.

John Doe fired this volley in news:n0cb7j
:

I don't plan on removing the torch head, but for anyone who regularly
does, they definitely should try that and find out.

I do it ALL the time; in fact, I ONLY do that. I never transport a torch
on the can -- too likely to be broken. A friend actually had one fall in
his vehicle and light... The damage was fairly minor, but it scared the
crap out of him.

And yes, I've done it in all positions of the can relative to the torch.

The thing about "other brands" of propane is pure crap, too. Propane
liquifies/boils at a certain well-defined pressure/temperature curve.
"Brands" don't matter.

LLoyd

On Fri, 23 Oct 2015 03:57:39 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Martin Eastburn fired:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBxOKHBTTI0

It's a bunch of pure bull****.

How many times have you tried doing exactly that?

I don't plan on removing the torch head, but for anyone who regularly
does, they definitely should try that and find out.

Somehow I doubt that farmer is a master at video editing. If I were
really interested, I would ask which torch head he was using. Apparently
the propane tanks were the common Coleman kind.

I wonder. Firstly, propane gas is heavier than air and secondly
propane boils at minus 44 degrees (F) at sea level. So how much will
be left inside a torch body after more than a second?

Yes, I saw the guy do it but I would guess that had he waited one more
second his "trick" wouldn't have worked.
--
cheers,

John B.

John B. wrote:

John Doe wrote:
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
John Doe wrote:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBxOKHBTTI0

It's a bunch of pure bull****.

How many times have you tried doing exactly that?

I don't plan on removing the torch head, but for anyone who regularly
does, they definitely should try that and find out.

Somehow I doubt that farmer is a master at video editing. If I were
really interested, I would ask which torch head he was using.
Apparently the propane tanks were the common Coleman kind.

I wonder. Firstly, propane gas is heavier than air and secondly
propane boils at minus 44 degrees (F) at sea level. So how much will
be left inside a torch body after more than a second?

Yes, I saw the guy do it but I would guess that had he waited one more
second his "trick" wouldn't have worked. -- cheers,

It does seem strange, but that doesn't make it "a bunch of pure bull****".
Besides lacking the skill to do such stealthy video editing and lacking
any interest to do magic, one has to ask "What would be his motive for
faking such a video?" Learn magic and high level video editing in
anticipation of getting rich quick from a single video going viral,
about propane torch safety? I don't think so.

On Thu, 22 Oct 2015 22:22:15 -0400, Carl Ijames wrote:

Any chance he held the tank down so the torch head could flood with liquid
propane before removing the tank? Think how long a Bic lighter burns on a
couple of mL of liquid butane; this is a much bigger flame but I think it is
possible a small slug of liquid could explain it.

Other faking it, yours is the only other explantion I could think of ;
but there would need to have a check valve that would prevent gas
venting out the "bottom" of the torch, forcing gas to exit thru the tiny
gas orifice in the nozzle to sustain the burn time.
--
Email address is a Spam trap.

Bill fired this volley in
:

but there would need to have a check valve that would prevent gas
venting out the "bottom" of the torch, forcing gas to exit thru the
tiny
gas orifice in the nozzle to sustain the burn time.

There is. There's a tiny ball-check at the tip of the canister needle.

Without that, there wouldn't be _any_ "burp" after the torch was
unscrewed from the gas bottle.

That still won't account for an amount of gas in the short riser tube
necessary to make it burn that long -- even if it were all liquid.

Lloyd

On Fri, 23 Oct 2015 11:07:22 -0500, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:

That still won't account for an amount of gas in the short riser tube
necessary to make it burn that long -- even if it were all liquid.

I tend to agree with you.

--
Email address is a Spam trap.

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" wrote in message
. 4.170...

Bill fired this volley in
:

but there would need to have a check valve that would prevent gas
venting out the "bottom" of the torch, forcing gas to exit thru the
tiny
gas orifice in the nozzle to sustain the burn time.

There is. There's a tiny ball-check at the tip of the canister needle.

Without that, there wouldn't be _any_ "burp" after the torch was
unscrewed from the gas bottle.

That still won't account for an amount of gas in the short riser tube
necessary to make it burn that long -- even if it were all liquid.

Lloyd
================================================== ===============

I didn't know for sure that there was a check valve, but I thought there was
a good chance there was one. Lloyd, you posted that you tried this, and you
probably did what I'm about to suggest :-). If liquid is the key the best
way I can think to do it would be to light the torch and hold the tank with
the valve straight down to maximize the flow of liquid, then let the torch
burn for a few minutes to make sure the torch tubing is flooded with liquid.
Keep the tank upside down, turn off the torch, and unscrew the torch from
the tank as quickly as you can to minimize venting as the check ball seats,
then point the torch up to minimize the flow of liquid into the flame, and
pull the trigger. Also, all tanks should give the same results, but maybe
the differences were in how he had the tank oriented, how long he kept the
torch lit, and how fast the he unscrewed the torch? If that doesn't work,
then I can't see how he did it without cheating.

-----
Regards,
Carl Ijames

John Doe wrote:

This is good stuff for anybody concerned about safety...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBxOKHBTTI0

From the same farmer. Even better stuff for anyone concerned about
safety...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Xs1tL3wXSk

"Carl Ijames" fired this volley in
:

If liquid is the key the best
way I can think to do it would be to light the torch and hold the tank
with the valve straight down to maximize the flow of liquid, then let
the torch burn for a few minutes to make sure the torch tubing is
flooded with liquid. Keep the tank upside down, turn off the torch,
and unscrew the torch from the tank as quickly as you can to minimize
venting as the check ball seats, then point the torch up to minimize
the flow of liquid into the flame, and pull the trigger.

I did _exactly_ that, allowing the torch to run long enough to ensure
there was liquid in the riser tube. 0.7 second 'puff'. It _was_ the
longest one, most being under 1/3 second.

Lloyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" wrote in message
.170...

"Carl Ijames" fired this volley in
:

If liquid is the key the best
way I can think to do it would be to light the torch and hold the tank
with the valve straight down to maximize the flow of liquid, then let
the torch burn for a few minutes to make sure the torch tubing is
flooded with liquid. Keep the tank upside down, turn off the torch,
and unscrew the torch from the tank as quickly as you can to minimize
venting as the check ball seats, then point the torch up to minimize
the flow of liquid into the flame, and pull the trigger.

I did _exactly_ that, allowing the torch to run long enough to ensure
there was liquid in the riser tube. 0.7 second 'puff'. It _was_ the
longest one, most being under 1/3 second.

Lloyd
================================================== =======

Thanks, Lloyd, I knew you would be thorough. I completely agree with you,
there has to be a gimmick of some kind, like Photoshop or a little tank in
the handle or a clear plastic supply tube :-).

-----
Regards,
Carl Ijames

On Fri, 23 Oct 2015 12:43:37 -0400, "Carl Ijames"
wrote:

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" wrote in message
.4.170...

Bill fired this volley in
:

but there would need to have a check valve that would prevent gas
venting out the "bottom" of the torch, forcing gas to exit thru the
tiny
gas orifice in the nozzle to sustain the burn time.

There is. There's a tiny ball-check at the tip of the canister needle.

Without that, there wouldn't be _any_ "burp" after the torch was
unscrewed from the gas bottle.

That still won't account for an amount of gas in the short riser tube
necessary to make it burn that long -- even if it were all liquid.

Lloyd
================================================= ================

I didn't know for sure that there was a check valve, but I thought there was
a good chance there was one. Lloyd, you posted that you tried this, and you
probably did what I'm about to suggest :-). If liquid is the key the best
way I can think to do it would be to light the torch and hold the tank with
the valve straight down to maximize the flow of liquid, then let the torch
burn for a few minutes

What for? Gas is in and out of those torch heads in a split second.


to make sure the torch tubing is flooded with liquid.

The probable problem with that is that the ball would be creating a
bit of a venturi effect, vaporizing the liquid before it could get
through. My best SWAG.


Keep the tank upside down, turn off the torch, and unscrew the torch from

I haven't ever demoed a propane cylinder. Do they have liquid tubes
in them, or are they straight openings from outside in?

-
To change one's self is sufficient. It's the idiots who want
to change the world who are causing all the trouble.
--Anonymous

Larry Jaques fired this volley in
news
The probable problem with that is that the ball would be creating a
bit of a venturi effect, vaporizing the liquid before it could get
through. My best SWAG.

Larry, you're correct, but we still had to "challenge" the concept.

It's the case that the common propane cylinders do NOT have a 'dip tube',
just a top-valve/oriface. In fact, it _appears_ that the ball-check
produces less of a pressure drop than does the 'micron filter' just
preceding the outlet, so there is a remote possibility that the tube
between valve and tank _might_ fill with liquid. I think it may have -
at least some - since the 'burp' I got when running it inverted was a bit
longer (by a fraction of a second) than the burp gotten when I burnt it
upright.

The whole thing is a scam, to confuse people.

Lloyd

On Fri, 23 Oct 2015 17:20:31 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Larry Jaques fired this volley in
news
The probable problem with that is that the ball would be creating a
bit of a venturi effect, vaporizing the liquid before it could get
through. My best SWAG.

Larry, you're correct, but we still had to "challenge" the concept.

It's the case that the common propane cylinders do NOT have a 'dip tube',
just a top-valve/oriface. In fact, it _appears_ that the ball-check
produces less of a pressure drop than does the 'micron filter' just
preceding the outlet, so there is a remote possibility that the tube
between valve and tank _might_ fill with liquid. I think it may have -
at least some - since the 'burp' I got when running it inverted was a bit
longer (by a fraction of a second) than the burp gotten when I burnt it
upright.

The whole thing is a scam, to confuse people.

It only confuses Lilliputians. As we all know, Gullible Travels.

-
To change one's self is sufficient. It's the idiots who want
to change the world who are causing all the trouble.
--Anonymous

I have had that style of torch for more than 30 years and have never had
it more than "poof" when triggered off the "tank".

I just did the following: let it burn upside down for a minute, then let
it sit upside down for 20 minutes. I took it off the tank and triggered
it - it only poofed.

The guy is not a troll - he has hundreds of videos on YouTube. Mostly
about artificial reefs and his farm. BTW - he is not a farmer - he is a
vet with an 80 acre hobby farm. Very sincere.

I don't think that his video is faked. The only explanation I can
advance is that his torch is defective. I had another brand of
all-position torch once that was not working right & I tried to fix. In
taking it apart, I found that it had a separate chamber that I assumed
was for vaporizing liquid propane that was delivered in the upside down
condition. Perhaps his torch is defective in letting liquid into this
chamber (which, IIRC, could hold 5-10cc). Wait ... I just re-watched
and he said that he had it happen on "several" different torches. So, I
dunno.

However, it's not the brand of propane. He says that some brands let
propane "leak into the torch" when they're off. That is just plain
ignorant! Anytime a torch is attached to any tank, the tank's integral
valve is opened and gas enters the torch.

Another thought: he is in winter clothes in the video & maybe the
(Minnesota) winter temperature has something to do with it. Let's see:
if you put the torch on a _warm_ tank and let it sit in the cold, the
gas in the tank would have a higher vapor pressure than gas in the torch
chamber and you would get transfer. Vaporization in the tank and
condensation in the torch. It's possible.

Bob

On 10/23/2015 11:41 PM, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
....
However, it's not the brand of propane. He says that some brands let
propane "leak into the torch" when they're off. That is just plain
ignorant! Anytime a torch is attached to any tank, the tank's integral
valve is opened and gas enters the torch.
...

"...when they're off...": turned off, not off the tank.

Bob Engelhardt wrote:

I have had that style of torch for more than 30 years and have never
had it more than "poof" when triggered off the "tank".

I just did the following: let it burn upside down for a minute, then
let it sit upside down for 20 minutes. I took it off the tank and
triggered it - it only poofed.

The guy is not a troll

Very likely less of a troll than most UseNet posters.

- he has hundreds of videos on YouTube. Mostly about artificial reefs
and his farm. BTW - he is not a farmer - he is a vet with an 80 acre
hobby farm. Very sincere.

I don't think that his video is faked. The only explanation I can
advance is that his torch is defective. I had another brand of
all-position torch once that was not working right & I tried to fix.
In taking it apart, I found that it had a separate chamber that I
assumed was for vaporizing liquid propane that was delivered in the
upside down condition. Perhaps his torch is defective in letting
liquid into this chamber (which, IIRC, could hold 5-10cc). Wait ... I
just re-watched and he said that he had it happen on "several"
different torches. So, I dunno.

Without experience using torches, just watching a few videos... The only
other thing that comes to mind besides a defective torch is that those
Coleman tanks have been overfilled.

However, it's not the brand of propane. He says that some brands let
propane "leak into the torch" when they're off. That is just plain
ignorant! Anytime a torch is attached to any tank, the tank's
integral valve is opened and gas enters the torch.

Another thought: he is in winter clothes in the video & maybe the
(Minnesota) winter temperature has something to do with it.

It's probably very cold in that video. Not likely making it for the
insane purpose of fooling people just for kicks. If I were concerned
about the torch safety thing, I might ask questions of the author.

Got to love the firearms. I wouldn't find them useful, but the rifle
looks cool.

--







Let's see: if you put the torch on a _warm_ tank and let it sit in the
cold, the gas in the tank would have a higher vapor pressure than gas
in the torch chamber and you would get transfer. Vaporization in the
tank and condensation in the torch. It's possible.

Bob

On Fri, 23 Oct 2015 16:55:46 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

John Doe wrote:

This is good stuff for anybody concerned about safety...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBxOKHBTTI0

From the same farmer. Even better stuff for anyone concerned about
safety...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Xs1tL3wXSk

??? you mean firing a gun is dangerous?
--
cheers,

John B.

Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 23 Oct 2015 17:20:31 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Larry Jaques fired this volley in
news
The probable problem with that is that the ball would be creating a
bit of a venturi effect, vaporizing the liquid before it could get
through. My best SWAG.
Larry, you're correct, but we still had to "challenge" the concept.

It's the case that the common propane cylinders do NOT have a 'dip tube',
just a top-valve/oriface. In fact, it _appears_ that the ball-check
produces less of a pressure drop than does the 'micron filter' just
preceding the outlet, so there is a remote possibility that the tube
between valve and tank _might_ fill with liquid. I think it may have -
at least some - since the 'burp' I got when running it inverted was a bit
longer (by a fraction of a second) than the burp gotten when I burnt it
upright.

The whole thing is a scam, to confuse people.

It only confuses Lilliputians. As we all know, Gullible Travels.

-
To change one's self is sufficient. It's the idiots who want
to change the world who are causing all the trouble.
--Anonymous


It seems to really confuse someone who -

Says he doesn't own a torch.
Doesn't know how they work.
Refuses to believe that those of use who DO own these torches and
actually use them know anything about them.
Thinks that when we actually test them out and cannot duplicate a video,
that WE must be the ones who are wrong.
And who hides behind a fake name---

HMM sounds a LOT like another dipstick we all know on here--- J.B.


--
Steve W.

On Fri, 23 Oct 2015 23:41:08 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

I have had that style of torch for more than 30 years and have never had
it more than "poof" when triggered off the "tank".

I just did the following: let it burn upside down for a minute, then let
it sit upside down for 20 minutes. I took it off the tank and triggered
it - it only poofed.

The guy is not a troll - he has hundreds of videos on YouTube. Mostly
about artificial reefs and his farm. BTW - he is not a farmer - he is a
vet with an 80 acre hobby farm. Very sincere.

I don't think that his video is faked. The only explanation I can
advance is that his torch is defective. I had another brand of
all-position torch once that was not working right & I tried to fix. In
taking it apart, I found that it had a separate chamber that I assumed
was for vaporizing liquid propane that was delivered in the upside down
condition. Perhaps his torch is defective in letting liquid into this
chamber (which, IIRC, could hold 5-10cc). Wait ... I just re-watched
and he said that he had it happen on "several" different torches. So, I
dunno.

However, it's not the brand of propane. He says that some brands let
propane "leak into the torch" when they're off. That is just plain
ignorant! Anytime a torch is attached to any tank, the tank's integral
valve is opened and gas enters the torch.

Another thought: he is in winter clothes in the video & maybe the
(Minnesota) winter temperature has something to do with it. Let's see:
if you put the torch on a _warm_ tank and let it sit in the cold, the
gas in the tank would have a higher vapor pressure than gas in the torch
chamber and you would get transfer. Vaporization in the tank and
condensation in the torch. It's possible.

Bob

Err... doesn't propane boil at something like -43 (F)? How cold does
it get there in YouTube land?
--
cheers,

John B.

John B. fired this volley in
news
Err... doesn't propane boil at something like -43 (F)? How cold does
it get there in YouTube land?

Err.... at atmospheric pressure! Wanna just guess that the pressure in the
tank and torch inlet tube is higher than at atmospheric pressure?

You DID know that the propane in a tank is typically in a liquid state;
yes?

Lloyd

On 10/23/2015 11:41 PM, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
...
if you put the torch on a _warm_ tank and let it sit in the cold, the
gas in the tank would have a higher vapor pressure than gas in the torch
chamber and you would get transfer. Vaporization in the tank and
condensation in the torch. It's possible.

The Engineering Toolbox* gives the vapor pressure of propane at 70F as
130 psia (+_) and at 0f as 40 psia.

So with a warm tank at 70 & a cold torch at 0, there would be 90 psi
difference pushing propane gas into the (off/closed) torch. The warm
gas will quickly fill the chamber and equalize the pressure, but that
pressure will be higher than the vapor pressure of the cold chamber and
the propane will start condensing.

Equilibrium will reached when the chamber and tank temperatures are the
same. The tank will cool from vaporizing liquid (and from being in 0F
air) and the torch will warm from condensing vapor. How much propane
that will take depends on too many things for me to even guess at, but
the end result will be liquid propane in the torch chamber.

Bob

* - http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pr...re-d_1020.html

On Thu, 22 Oct 2015 19:02:25 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Martin Eastburn fired this volley in
:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wBxOKHBTTI0

It's a bunch of pure bull****. There is NOTHING in that handle that can
store that amount of gas! There's only a tiny tube about 1/8" i.d. from
the canister needle to the valve.

Someone has created that vid through editing.

Lloyd

If the propane comes into the head as a liquid..it can burn for a
significant period of time after its off the can. Been there, done
that. Thought everyone knew this....?

Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:

If the propane comes into the head as a liquid..it can burn for a
significant period of time after its off the can. Been there, done
that. Thought everyone knew this....?


THAT particular head has a tube about 1/8" i.d., and about 1.4" long from
the tank to the valve. If that were filled FULL of liquid (only), it
would burn about 0.9 seconds. Remember, he didn't have just a "lick" of
flame burning on that thing -- it was at full blow torch volume.

That particular head has NO 'chamber' or special "vaporization area".
It's just a straight tube up to the valve. There's a sintered metal
filter downwind to reduce the pressure, so that the gas will vaporize.

THAT head won't burn that long off the tank, no matter what you do, short
of 'processing' the video. I have two. I've used them in every
position, weather, and application to which you could apply a B-O-M
trigger torch.

Lloyd

On Sat, 24 Oct 2015 08:21:39 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

John B. fired this volley in
news
Err... doesn't propane boil at something like -43 (F)? How cold does
it get there in YouTube land?

Err.... at atmospheric pressure! Wanna just guess that the pressure in the
tank and torch inlet tube is higher than at atmospheric pressure?

You DID know that the propane in a tank is typically in a liquid state;
yes?

Lloyd

Yes, the vapor pressure at +50 (F) is ~100 psia. So?

And you close the valve... what is the pressure on any gas remaining
in the torch tube?
--
cheers,

John B.

On Sat, 24 Oct 2015 10:11:09 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

On 10/23/2015 11:41 PM, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
...
if you put the torch on a _warm_ tank and let it sit in the cold, the
gas in the tank would have a higher vapor pressure than gas in the torch
chamber and you would get transfer. Vaporization in the tank and
condensation in the torch. It's possible.

The Engineering Toolbox* gives the vapor pressure of propane at 70F as
130 psia (+_) and at 0f as 40 psia.

So with a warm tank at 70 & a cold torch at 0, there would be 90 psi
difference pushing propane gas into the (off/closed) torch. The warm
gas will quickly fill the chamber and equalize the pressure, but that
pressure will be higher than the vapor pressure of the cold chamber and
the propane will start condensing.

Equilibrium will reached when the chamber and tank temperatures are the
same. The tank will cool from vaporizing liquid (and from being in 0F
air) and the torch will warm from condensing vapor. How much propane
that will take depends on too many things for me to even guess at, but
the end result will be liquid propane in the torch chamber.

Bob

* - http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pr...re-d_1020.html

The question might be raised about how do you arrive at a 70 degree(F)
tank and a 0 degree torch?
:-)
--
cheers,

John B.

Easy easy. Just have gas stream from the nozzle without
a flame. It gets cold... The tank in your hands is soaking
heat from your hands or gloves... Sun lights and a long list.

Martin

On 10/25/2015 2:15 AM, John B. wrote:
On Sat, 24 Oct 2015 10:11:09 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

On 10/23/2015 11:41 PM, Bob Engelhardt wrote:
...
if you put the torch on a _warm_ tank and let it sit in the cold, the
gas in the tank would have a higher vapor pressure than gas in the torch
chamber and you would get transfer. Vaporization in the tank and
condensation in the torch. It's possible.

The Engineering Toolbox* gives the vapor pressure of propane at 70F as
130 psia (+_) and at 0f as 40 psia.

So with a warm tank at 70 & a cold torch at 0, there would be 90 psi
difference pushing propane gas into the (off/closed) torch. The warm
gas will quickly fill the chamber and equalize the pressure, but that
pressure will be higher than the vapor pressure of the cold chamber and
the propane will start condensing.

Equilibrium will reached when the chamber and tank temperatures are the
same. The tank will cool from vaporizing liquid (and from being in 0F
air) and the torch will warm from condensing vapor. How much propane
that will take depends on too many things for me to even guess at, but
the end result will be liquid propane in the torch chamber.

Bob

* - http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/pr...re-d_1020.html

The question might be raised about how do you arrive at a 70 degree(F)
tank and a 0 degree torch?
:-)
--
cheers,

John B.

And speaking of safety...

On the Home Depot website, on their page selling a propane torch
extension hose...

"Your cylinder stays securely fastened to a belt loop"

I just read some guy on YouTube that said his uncle was burned to death
because the propane leaked onto his clothing before it caught fire.

John Doe fired this volley in news:n0n0lb$oa5
:

I just read some guy on YouTube that said his uncle was burned to death
because the propane leaked onto his clothing before it caught fire.

It's even worse if you fall into a pond while wearing propane-soaked
clothing. You can freeze SOLID in just seconds!

L

On Tue, 27 Oct 2015 05:04:44 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

And speaking of safety...

On the Home Depot website, on their page selling a propane torch
extension hose...

"Your cylinder stays securely fastened to a belt loop"

I just read some guy on YouTube that said his uncle was burned to death
because the propane leaked onto his clothing before it caught fire.

I don't know about propane torches but I did see a warning notice for
welders. Apparently sparks ignited the throw away plastic cigarette
lighter in a couple of welders breast pockets, so the notice suggested
that you not carry your lighter there :-).
--
cheers,

John B.

On Tue, 27 Oct 2015 18:47:06 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Tue, 27 Oct 2015 05:04:44 +0000 (UTC), John Doe
wrote:

And speaking of safety...

On the Home Depot website, on their page selling a propane torch
extension hose...

"Your cylinder stays securely fastened to a belt loop"

I just read some guy on YouTube that said his uncle was burned to death
because the propane leaked onto his clothing before it caught fire.

I don't know about propane torches but I did see a warning notice for
welders. Apparently sparks ignited the throw away plastic cigarette
lighter in a couple of welders breast pockets, so the notice suggested
that you not carry your lighter there :-).

Which is one of the reasons I still carry Zippos, even though they are
a pain in the ass.