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Default Machiavelli on arming the population


From chapter 20 of The Prince. The first two sections are directly
relevant.

..http://www.constitution.org/mac/prince20.htm

The Prince (published in 1513) was well-known when the US was being
founded.

Joe Gwinn
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Default Machiavelli on arming the population

On Sun, 06 Sep 2015 15:02:25 -0400, Joe Gwinn
wrote:


From chapter 20 of The Prince. The first two sections are directly
relevant.

.http://www.constitution.org/mac/prince20.htm

The Prince (published in 1513) was well-known when the US was being
founded.


Hear, Hear!


--
I hate being bipolar ....... It's awesome!
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Default Machiavelli on arming the population

On Mon, 07 Sep 2015 06:54:06 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 06 Sep 2015 15:02:25 -0400, Joe Gwinn
wrote:


From chapter 20 of The Prince. The first two sections are directly
relevant.

.http://www.constitution.org/mac/prince20.htm

The Prince (published in 1513) was well-known when the US was being
founded.


Hear, Hear!


Before you get all excited, you should read the entire book. It's
about how to manipulate a population so a monarch can run it
peacefully and successfully.

For example, the "arm the people" idea applied only to certain
circumstances. In others, Machiavelli's recomendation was to disarm
them all -- if you can't use them for cannon fodder, keep them
intimidated.

If you think about what he's saying, you won't be so enthusiastic.
It's all about how to manipulate people like you.

--
Ed Huntress
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Default Machiavelli on arming the population

In article , Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Mon, 07 Sep 2015 06:54:06 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 06 Sep 2015 15:02:25 -0400, Joe Gwinn
wrote:


From chapter 20 of The Prince. The first two sections are directly
relevant.

.http://www.constitution.org/mac/prince20.htm

The Prince (published in 1513) was well-known when the US was being
founded.


Hear, Hear!


Before you get all excited, you should read the entire book. It's
about how to manipulate a population so a monarch can run it
peacefully and successfully.


True - it's good advice on how to be a successful Prince.

This is realpolitic, long before democracy reached Italy.


For example, the "arm the people" idea applied only to certain
circumstances. In others, Machiavelli's recomendation was to disarm
them all -- if you can't use them for cannon fodder, keep them
intimidated.


While I'll grant that The Prince is pretty ruthless, it's a whole lot
more nuanced than that.


If you think about what he's saying, you won't be so enthusiastic.
It's all about how to manipulate people like you.


By all means read the whole thing. It's not all that long, and it's
more often misapplied or misquoted than read.

It's still in print, 500 years later. How many books can claim that?

Joe Gwinn
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Default Machiavelli on arming the population

On Mon, 07 Sep 2015 10:48:04 -0400, Joe Gwinn
wrote:

In article , Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Mon, 07 Sep 2015 06:54:06 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 06 Sep 2015 15:02:25 -0400, Joe Gwinn
wrote:


From chapter 20 of The Prince. The first two sections are directly
relevant.

.http://www.constitution.org/mac/prince20.htm

The Prince (published in 1513) was well-known when the US was being
founded.

Hear, Hear!


Before you get all excited, you should read the entire book. It's
about how to manipulate a population so a monarch can run it
peacefully and successfully.


True - it's good advice on how to be a successful Prince.

This is realpolitic, long before democracy reached Italy.


For example, the "arm the people" idea applied only to certain
circumstances. In others, Machiavelli's recomendation was to disarm
them all -- if you can't use them for cannon fodder, keep them
intimidated.


While I'll grant that The Prince is pretty ruthless, it's a whole lot
more nuanced than that.


Sure. But how much nuance can you introduce to someone who hasn't even
read it? g

Isaiah Berlin, one of the most sophisticated critics of Machiavelli,
says that there is "over a score" of substantial critiques and
interpretations by authoritative sources. His writing remains shocking
and a dilemma for modern western readers. Lofting a few quotes about
arming a populace is about as dumbed-down a misunderstanding as we'll
see.



If you think about what he's saying, you won't be so enthusiastic.
It's all about how to manipulate people like you.


By all means read the whole thing. It's not all that long, and it's
more often misapplied or misquoted than read.

It's still in print, 500 years later. How many books can claim that?

Joe Gwinn



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Default Machiavelli on arming the population

On Mon, 07 Sep 2015 10:48:04 -0400
Joe Gwinn wrote:

It's still in print, 500 years later. How many books can claim that?


The Bible, basically the same general purpose...

--
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Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
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Default Machiavelli on arming the population

Joe Gwinn wrote:
In article , Ed Huntress

wrote:

On Mon, 07 Sep 2015 06:54:06 -0700, Larry Jaques

wrote:

On Sun, 06 Sep 2015 15:02:25 -0400, Joe Gwinn

wrote:


From chapter 20 of The Prince. The first two sections are directly
relevant.

.http://www.constitution.org/mac/prince20.htm

The Prince (published in 1513) was well-known when the US was being
founded.

Hear, Hear!


Before you get all excited, you should read the entire book. It's
about how to manipulate a population so a monarch can run it
peacefully and successfully.


True - it's good advice on how to be a successful Prince.


This is realpolitic, long before democracy reached Italy.


Democracy was in force in Rome in various times from 300BC.

-- http://www.historytoday.com/john-north/democracy-rome

-- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demo...Roman_Republic
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Default Machiavelli on arming the population

On Mon, 7 Sep 2015 13:47:42 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

Joe Gwinn wrote:
In article , Ed Huntress

wrote:

On Mon, 07 Sep 2015 06:54:06 -0700, Larry Jaques

wrote:

On Sun, 06 Sep 2015 15:02:25 -0400, Joe Gwinn
wrote:


From chapter 20 of The Prince. The first two sections are directly
relevant.

.http://www.constitution.org/mac/prince20.htm

The Prince (published in 1513) was well-known when the US was being
founded.

Hear, Hear!

Before you get all excited, you should read the entire book. It's
about how to manipulate a population so a monarch can run it
peacefully and successfully.


True - it's good advice on how to be a successful Prince.


This is realpolitic, long before democracy reached Italy.


Democracy was in force in Rome in various times from 300BC.

--
http://www.historytoday.com/john-north/democracy-rome

-- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demo...Roman_Republic


When you say "democracy" the Roman system of democracy, during the
Republic, is probably not what you are thinking about. During he
republic one voted in one's tribe and the tribes each had a specified
number of votes to elect the consul. Thus, the Plebs, the largest
single political division had no more political power that the
Patricians who they largely outnumbered.

The Senate, the Roman governing assemble, was appointed, not elected
and of course only full citizens could vote, excluding foreigners,
slaves, women and for a period "free men" who were basically freed
slaves.


The Patricians and Knights divisions were largely based on wealth and
family history so essentially if you envision a U.S. who's president
is elected from wealthier members of the DAR and an appointed congress
you will get the picture.
--
cheers,

John B.

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