Are all small bench grinder wheels crap nowadays? Bought two new wheels for my old 6" B&D bench grinder from the local hardware store. When mounted, both wheels are nearly 1/16" out of true both side to side and OD. Figured maybe the flanges were bad so I turned some new one from round stock to match the ID of the wheels. Mounted them and they were still horribly out. My flanges are jam on, it's the center holes in the wheels that are so bad. Bought a new grinder from HF, yea, I know, cheap China crap, and it is just as bad right out of the box.I just want a general purpose grinder/wire wheel set up that will run decently true without shaking the whole bench, not a tool grinder. Problems seem to be the wheels, not the grinders themselves.Suggestions?

Gerry wrote in news:9f0c15f7-886f-4e1e-a08b-
:

Avoid Harbor Freight. And get a real newsreader.

Gerry fired this volley in news:9f0c15f7-886f-4e1e-
:

both wheels are nearly 1/16" out of true both side to side and OD

The center hole wouldn't affect lateral runout. The O.D. problem is common
even with 'good' wheels, unless they fit really tightly on the arbors.

Dress them! (But first, you need to figure out that side-to-side runout.
It's sure not caused by the centerholes being wrong!

Lloyd

"Gerry" wrote in message
...

The Norton wheels (aluminum oxide) are pretty good, good enough that you can
quickly dress them to run true radially. Mine, on a Delta 6" variable-speed
bench grinder, don't have any significant side-to-side irregularities.

I use the dry grinder for the initial shaping of woodturning tools before
committing them to final sharpening on a wet wheel, so I want them running
pretty true. I've taken the further step of mounting the dry grinder wheels
on bushings that I get from Craft Supplies USA
(http://www.woodturnerscatalog.com). Here's a link:
https://www.woodturnerscatalog.com/p...et?term=raptor

One thing you should do before you blame the wheels is check the shaft on
your grinder for its own runout.

Tom

On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 10:55:39 AM UTC-4, Gerry wrote:
Are all small bench grinder wheels crap nowadays? Bought two new wheels for my old 6" B&D bench grinder from the local hardware store. When mounted, both wheels are nearly 1/16" out of true both side to side and OD. Figured maybe the flanges were bad so I turned some new one from round stock to match the ID of the wheels. Mounted them and they were still horribly out. My flanges are jam on, it's the center holes in the wheels that are so bad. Bought a new grinder from HF, yea, I know, cheap China crap, and it is just as bad right out of the box.I just want a general purpose grinder/wire wheel set up that will run decently true without shaking the whole bench, not a tool grinder. Problems seem to be the wheels, not the grinders themselves.Suggestions?

I would take the wheel back to the local hardware store. Maybe get a couple of wheels off Ebay. The grinders Harbor Freight sells are not too bad, or at least mine is qkay. But the wheels they come with are crap. They do not cut well .

Dan

On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 07:55:35 -0700 (PDT), Gerry
wrote:

Are all small bench grinder wheels crap nowadays? Bought two new wheels for my old 6" B&D bench grinder from the local hardware store. When mounted, both wheels are nearly 1/16" out of true both side to side and OD. Figured maybe the flanges were bad so I turned some new one from round stock to match the ID of the wheels. Mounted them and they were still horribly out. My flanges are jam on, it's the center holes in the wheels that are so bad. Bought a new grinder from HF, yea, I know, cheap China crap, and it is just as bad right out of the box.I just want a general purpose grinder/wire wheel set up that will run decently true without shaking the whole bench, not a tool grinder. Problems seem to be the wheels, not the grinders themselves.Suggestions?

My Ryobi 8" on a Grizzly pedestal stand runs smooth as silk. Not
expensive.

The wheels from McMaster are not all that cheap, but decent tools
never are..

--sp



--
Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
Amazon link for AoE 3rd Edition: http://tinyurl.com/ntrpwu8
Microchip link for 2015 Masters in Phoenix: http://tinyurl.com/l7g2k48

On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 9:55:39 AM UTC-5, Gerry wrote:
Are all small bench grinder wheels crap nowadays? Bought two new wheels for my old 6" B&D bench grinder from the local hardware store. When mounted, both wheels are nearly 1/16" out of true both side to side and OD. Figured maybe the flanges were bad so I turned some new one from round stock to match the ID of the wheels. Mounted them and they were still horribly out. My flanges are jam on, it's the center holes in the wheels that are so bad. Bought a new grinder from HF, yea, I know, cheap China crap, and it is just as bad right out of the box.I just want a general purpose grinder/wire wheel set up that will run decently true without shaking the whole bench, not a tool grinder. Problems seem to be the wheels, not the grinders themselves.Suggestions?

Shafts on both grinders are true. Installed just the flanges on the shaft with a spacer between the and they run true. Installed a new Norton 3X wheel and with the flanges I made or the Raptor flanges and it runs true. Replace the Norton with any of the other hardware store wheels and the problems return

"Gerry" wrote in message
...

On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 9:55:39 AM UTC-5, Gerry wrote:

Shafts on both grinders are true. Installed just the flanges on the shaft
with a spacer between the and they run true. Installed a new Norton 3X
wheel and with the flanges I made or the Raptor flanges and it runs true.
Replace the Norton with any of the other hardware store wheels and the
problems return

Well, that seems to tell the story, then, doesn't it?

Tom

On 08/31/2015 10:40 AM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
....

Dress them! (But first, you need to figure out that side-to-side runout.
It's sure not caused by the centerholes being wrong!

Certainly can be if they're not perpendicular to the faces...and given
his later report when went w/ Norton instead of no-name, appears clearly
the issue. Of course, they _could_ be trued up, too, and then sleeved
for diameter.

--

On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 07:55:35 -0700 (PDT), Gerry
wrote:

Are all small bench grinder wheels crap nowadays? Bought two new wheels for my old 6" B&D bench grinder from the local hardware store. When mounted, both wheels are nearly 1/16" out of true both side to side and OD. Figured maybe the flanges were bad so I turned some new one from round stock to match the ID of the wheels. Mounted them and they were still horribly out. My flanges are jam on, it's the center holes in the wheels that are so bad. Bought a new grinder from HF, yea, I know, cheap China crap, and it is just as bad right out of the box.I just want a general purpose grinder/wire wheel set up that will run decently true without shaking the whole bench, not a tool grinder. Problems seem to be the wheels, not the grinders themselves.Suggestions?

Go on Ebay and look for the commercial brands of grinding wheels/wire
wheels. Imported Chicom stuff tends to be utter crap at the lower end
of the price range. Which means most "hardware store" is crap. Not
all...but most.

Id suggest doing a Ebay search on "Norton" as a start.

I would avoid any ad that claims "norton type"

http://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from...s&_sacat=11804

"carborundrum" is another good name to search for.

Other names to search for:

http://www.manta.com/mb_35_E81237SK_..._manufacturers


That being said..you do have a stone dresser...right? This simple
device will allow you to quickly true up ALMOST any properly made
stone.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/7-Rimac-Grin...-/121742768353

Lots and lots of them on Ebay. I cannot speak for the diamond
dressing tools. Perhaps others here can.

I should also mention that it is entirely possible to get a ****load
of high quality grinding wheels for free or nearly free. Find a local
grinding house in your area..and bring in a big box of donuts and ask
them for their "old used wheels". Often times they will have boxes of
used wheels that were radius dressed for other jobs that are now over
and the wheels long since paid for..and are now in their way. Its
surprising what will turn up. I once asked at a smaller shop..and was
given 500...yes...half a thousand used grinding wheels. Some of which
appeared to be nearly new..300 were well used. I was giving them away
to my friends for 5 yrs....(Grin). Any idea what 500 wheels weighs?
A ****load!!

Most commerical grinding wheels will have a 1 1/4" center hole to fit
industrial grinding machines..but 5 minutes with your lathe and a bit
of aluminum will turn an adapter with a 1 1/4" od and a center hole
that will fit your spindle.

Its not rocket science in the slightest. Do you know what sort of
grinding you will most be doing?

Gunner

On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 09:03:04 -0700, "tdacon"
wrote:

"Gerry" wrote in message
...

The Norton wheels (aluminum oxide)

It should be noted that Norton makes all sorts of wheels, some of
which are Aluminum Oxide. But hardly all.

dpb fired this volley in :

Certainly can be if they're not perpendicular to the faces

Sorry, no. OR he's confused about what it means to have the flanges
tightened down properly.

The flanges register to the shoulder on the arbor. If the stone's hole
were cut so 'diagonally' that it couldn't seat on the flanges, then
tightening them down until they seated flush to the wheel surfaces would
break the wheel.

The radial run-out is probably the wheel. So what? That's what wheel-
dressers are for.

Lloyd

Gerry wrote:
Are all small bench grinder wheels crap nowadays? Bought two new
wheels for my old 6" B&D bench grinder from the local hardware store.
When mounted, both wheels are nearly 1/16" out of true both side to
side and OD. Figured maybe the flanges were bad so I turned some new
one from round stock to match the ID of the wheels. Mounted them and
they were still horribly out. My flanges are jam on, it's the center
holes in the wheels that are so bad. Bought a new grinder from HF,
yea, I know, cheap China crap, and it is just as bad right out of the
box.I just want a general purpose grinder/wire wheel set up that will
run decently true without shaking the whole bench, not a tool
grinder. Problems seem to be the wheels, not the grinders
themselves.Suggestions?

Have you checked the shaft for runout ? I've had a bi**h of a time trying
to get my HF 8" to run smoothly . Turns out the shaft is bent just a bit ,
like .010" runout . I also turned new flanges , which like you didn't help .

--
Snag

"Terry Coombs" fired this volley in
:

Have you checked the shaft for runout ? I've had a bi**h of a time
trying
to get my HF 8" to run smoothly . Turns out the shaft is bent just a
bit , like .010" runout . I also turned new flanges , which like you
didn't help .

It's funny, I have a 'big' (8", belt-driven) grinder, too, but I have an
old Dayton 1/4 HP bench grinder.

It's almost exactly 50 years old. My dad bought it in 1965. Except for
replacing the deteriorated cord and the worn-out toggle switch on it, not
ONE thing has ever been done to it, and it still runs accurately in both
planes.

SOME day, I might even have to replace the bearings! G

Lloyd

On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 07:55:35 -0700 (PDT), Gerry
wrote:

Are all small bench grinder wheels crap nowadays? Bought two new wheels for my old 6" B&D bench grinder from the local hardware store. When mounted, both wheels are nearly 1/16" out of true both side to side and OD. Figured maybe the flanges were bad so I turned some new one from round stock to match the ID of the wheels. Mounted them and they were still horribly out. My flanges are jam on, it's the center holes in the wheels that are so bad. Bought a new grinder from HF, yea, I know, cheap China crap, and it is just as bad right out of the box.I just want a general purpose grinder/wire wheel set up that will run decently true without shaking the whole bench, not a tool grinder. Problems seem to be the wheels, not the grinders themselves.Suggestions?

Years ago as an apprentice boy I was taught that the first thing to do
after mounting a grinding wheel was to dress the wheel.
--
cheers,

John B.

On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 10:17:08 -0700 (PDT), Gerry
wrote:

On Monday, August 31, 2015 at 9:55:39 AM UTC-5, Gerry wrote:
Are all small bench grinder wheels crap nowadays? Bought two new wheels for my old 6" B&D bench grinder from the local hardware store. When mounted, both wheels are nearly 1/16" out of true both side to side and OD. Figured maybe the flanges were bad so I turned some new one from round stock to match the ID of the wheels. Mounted them and they were still horribly out. My flanges are jam on, it's the center holes in the wheels that are so bad. Bought a new grinder from HF, yea, I know, cheap China crap, and it is just as bad right out of the box.I just want a general purpose grinder/wire wheel set up that will run decently true without shaking the whole bench, not a tool grinder. Problems seem to be the wheels, not the grinders themselves.Suggestions?

Shafts on both grinders are true. Installed just the flanges on the shaft with a spacer between the and they run true. Installed a new Norton 3X wheel and with the flanges I made or the Raptor flanges and it runs true. Replace the Norton with any of the other hardware store wheels and the problems return

So, you bought trash and it wasn't satisfactory. You bought quality
and it was satisfactory.

Seems to be a lesson hidden in there somewhere.
--
cheers,

John B.

On 8/31/2015 8:35 PM, John B. wrote:

So, you bought trash and it wasn't satisfactory. ...

"Local hardware store" is not same as HF. I think that it's generally
safe to assume that the l-h-s stuff is not trash.

On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 14:12:09 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

dpb fired this volley in :

Certainly can be if they're not perpendicular to the faces

Sorry, no. OR he's confused about what it means to have the flanges
tightened down properly.

The flanges register to the shoulder on the arbor. If the stone's hole
were cut so 'diagonally' that it couldn't seat on the flanges, then
tightening them down until they seated flush to the wheel surfaces would
break the wheel.

The radial run-out is probably the wheel. So what? That's what wheel-
dressers are for.

Another potential problem is the SAE shaft and metric wheel
difference. Tape up the shaft to true the oversized center hole of
the wheel, then dress the mounted wheel to round/concentric.

Even HF wheels don't mount tightly to HF shafts, and both are
semi-metrical objets d' art. Amazing! g

--
The mind is like a parachute. It doesn't work until it's opened.
--Frank Zappa

On Mon, 31 Aug 2015 22:30:13 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

On 8/31/2015 8:35 PM, John B. wrote:

So, you bought trash and it wasn't satisfactory. ...

"Local hardware store" is not same as HF. I think that it's generally
safe to assume that the l-h-s stuff is not trash.

I suggest that if grinding wheels sell for $10.00 your local hardware
shop owner can figure out the difference between $4.00 and $8.00
wholesale costs.
--
cheers,

John B.

On 2015-08-31, Gerry wrote:

Are all small bench grinder wheels crap nowadays? Bought two new
wheels for my old 6" B&D bench grinder from the local hardware store.
When mounted, both wheels are nearly 1/16" out of true both side to side
and OD. Figured maybe the flanges were bad so I turned some new one from
round stock to match the ID of the wheels. Mounted them and they were
still horribly out. My flanges are jam on, it's the center holes in the
wheels that are so bad. Bought a new grinder from HF, yea, I know, cheap
China crap, and it is just as bad right out of the box.I just want a
general purpose grinder/wire wheel set up that will run decently true
without shaking the whole bench, not a tool grinder. Problems seem to be
the wheels, not the grinders themselves.Suggestions?

Well ... I've not bought 6" wheels recently, but I did buy some
8" wheels from MSC not too many years ago, and they ran very smoothly.

The grinder is a Jet FWIW --bought from a local builder's supply
place which had had it in the window so long that the box was badly
faded on the sides towards the window. :-) (I got it for a good price --
I think that they had figured that nobody was going to buy it. Anyway,
the bearings on it were very smooth, too. Turn it off and it runs for a
couple of minutes or more before the centrifugal switch clicks on
slow-down. :-)

Note that I was after good white wheels, not the average gray
wheels, and so I paid a bit more -- which may have made the difference.

Good Luck,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On 2015-08-31, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Gerry fired this volley in news:9f0c15f7-886f-4e1e-
:

both wheels are nearly 1/16" out of true both side to side and OD

The center hole wouldn't affect lateral runout. The O.D. problem is common
even with 'good' wheels, unless they fit really tightly on the arbors.

Dress them! (But first, you need to figure out that side-to-side runout.
It's sure not caused by the centerholes being wrong!

If the centerholes are sufficiently angled with respect to the
axis of the wheel, and are close enough to the diameter of the grinder
shaft, it may indeed force it to wobble. (Maybe check the thickness at
various points around the wheel, to make sure that it isn't a problem of
the two sides not being parallel to each other.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
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Email: | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
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--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

"DoN. Nichols" fired this volley in
:

If the centerholes are sufficiently angled with respect to the
axis of the wheel, and are close enough to the diameter of the grinder
shaft, it may indeed force it to wobble.

AGAIN... NOT-A-CHANCE, unless you don't seat the flange washers. If you
don't do that, you have no reason to expect the wheel to run true, and if
you DO it with a wheel so badly bored that it would run wobbly, you'll
break the wheel.

This is really a dumb discussion. If the darned flanges are running true
to the shaft, the wheel HAS TO. c'mon! I've bought dozens of wheels
for my own grinders over the decades. I've never found even 'dollar-bin
seconds' to run so badly they couldn't be 1) mounted square, and 2) trued
radially.

I certainly don't use them now, for their cutting characteristics, but
when I was in my 20s and 30s, I used them a lot (for being broke all the
time).

Lloyd

On 2015-09-06, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" fired this volley in
:

If the centerholes are sufficiently angled with respect to the
axis of the wheel, and are close enough to the diameter of the grinder
shaft, it may indeed force it to wobble.

AGAIN... NOT-A-CHANCE, unless you don't seat the flange washers. If you
don't do that, you have no reason to expect the wheel to run true, and if
you DO it with a wheel so badly bored that it would run wobbly, you'll
break the wheel.

Depends. I've seen stamped flange washers which could be
distorted by tightening on a wheel with a bad bore such as I described.
Machined ones are a different matter -- depending on the thickness of
the metal.

Granted -- a subsequent test with just the washers in place and
now wheel would show the washers to no longer be true.

And -- you did not cover the other possibility which I mentioned
(in one of my followups, perhaps not this one) that a wheel might even
have the problem of the two faces not being parallel.

This is really a dumb discussion. If the darned flanges are running true
to the shaft, the wheel HAS TO. c'mon! I've bought dozens of wheels
for my own grinders over the decades. I've never found even 'dollar-bin
seconds' to run so badly they couldn't be 1) mounted square, and 2) trued
radially.

I certainly don't use them now, for their cutting characteristics, but
when I was in my 20s and 30s, I used them a lot (for being broke all the
time).

So -- dollar bin seconds may have been better back then. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
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--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

On Saturday, September 5, 2015 at 5:47:53 PM UTC-7, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" fired this volley in
:

If the centerholes are sufficiently angled with respect to the
axis of the wheel, and are close enough to the diameter of the grinder
shaft, it may indeed force it to wobble.

AGAIN... NOT-A-CHANCE, unless you don't seat the flange washers. If you
don't do that, you have no reason to expect the wheel to run true...

I've seen some grinding wheels with a center hole plugged with a grey
material (?sulfur) which is then precisely bored to the shaft dimension plus
a small tolerance... if you tighten the flanges on such a wheel, if it is
bored slightly askew, you'll bend the shaft and everything goes wobbly.

In article ,
whit3rd wrote:

On Saturday, September 5, 2015 at 5:47:53 PM UTC-7, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
wrote:
"DoN. Nichols" fired this volley in
:

If the centerholes are sufficiently angled with respect to the
axis of the wheel, and are close enough to the diameter of the grinder
shaft, it may indeed force it to wobble.

AGAIN... NOT-A-CHANCE, unless you don't seat the flange washers. If you
don't do that, you have no reason to expect the wheel to run true...

I've seen some grinding wheels with a center hole plugged with a grey
material (?sulfur) which is then precisely bored to the shaft dimension plus
a small tolerance... if you tighten the flanges on such a wheel, if it is
bored slightly askew, you'll bend the shaft and everything goes wobbly.

Epoxy. If from a good supplier, the hole will be perpendicular to the
faces.

Joe Gwinn

whit3rd fired this volley in
:

I've seen some grinding wheels with a center hole plugged with a grey
material (?sulfur) which is then precisely bored to the shaft
dimension plus a small tolerance... if you tighten the flanges on
such a wheel, if it is bored slightly askew, you'll bend the shaft and
everything goes wobbly.

Right. Sulfur. snicker!
L

Joe Gwinn fired this volley in
:

If from a good supplier, the hole will be perpendicular to the
faces.


If from a BAD supplier, if they've gone to the trouble of plugging and re-
drilling the center hole, it's going to be as true as it needs to be.

Lloyd