My little tractor has had a mishap , it put a con rod out the side of the
motor . Motor in question is a Kohler KT17 opposed twin . Since these are
rather hard - and expensive - to replace , I would like to repair the hole
by welding a patch over it . This unit is over 30 years old and oil soaked
,,, I've had reasonable success a couple of times , but nothing I'd write
home about , and I'm pretty sure the reason is I haven't been getting all
the oil out of the pores .
How long and at what temp do I need to bake this thing to be reasonably
sure I've got most of the oil out ? It will be degreased with solvent first
followed by a thorough scrubbing with detergent before baking . The part
looks to be die cast , which I believe means it has a fair percentage of
silicon in the alloy , which rod is recommended ? I have on hand 4043 and
5356 , but can get other if needed .
Or do I just need to bite the bullet and drop 130 bucks on a replacement ?
There is one on fleabay right now ... it's not that I don't have the money ,
I just hate to replace something that I can repair .


--
Snag
also posted at sejw

On 08/21/2015 9:03 AM, Terry Coombs wrote:
My little tractor has had a mishap , it put a con rod out the side of the
motor . Motor in question is a Kohler KT17 opposed twin . Since these are
rather hard - and expensive - to replace , I would like to repair the hole
by welding a patch over it . This unit is over 30 years old and oil soaked
,,, I've had reasonable success a couple of times , but nothing I'd write
home about , and I'm pretty sure the reason is I haven't been getting all
the oil out of the pores .
How long and at what temp do I need to bake this thing to be reasonably
sure I've got most of the oil out ? It will be degreased with solvent first
followed by a thorough scrubbing with detergent before baking . The part
looks to be die cast , which I believe means it has a fair percentage of
silicon in the alloy , which rod is recommended ? I have on hand 4043 and
5356 , but can get other if needed .
Or do I just need to bite the bullet and drop 130 bucks on a replacement ?
There is one on fleabay right now ... it's not that I don't have the money ,
I just hate to replace something that I can repair .

Don't really know the answer but sometimes the effort in a repair and
the result just isn't worth it compared to the alternative...this might
be one of those times.

I'd donate the old one here for parts but it's not the right one...too
small so wouldn't help.

--

On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 09:03:21 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

My little tractor has had a mishap , it put a con rod out the side of the
motor . Motor in question is a Kohler KT17 opposed twin . Since these are
rather hard - and expensive - to replace , I would like to repair the hole
by welding a patch over it . This unit is over 30 years old and oil soaked
,,, I've had reasonable success a couple of times , but nothing I'd write
home about , and I'm pretty sure the reason is I haven't been getting all
the oil out of the pores .
How long and at what temp do I need to bake this thing to be reasonably
sure I've got most of the oil out ? It will be degreased with solvent first
followed by a thorough scrubbing with detergent before baking . The part
looks to be die cast , which I believe means it has a fair percentage of
silicon in the alloy , which rod is recommended ? I have on hand 4043 and
5356 , but can get other if needed .
Or do I just need to bite the bullet and drop 130 bucks on a replacement ?
There is one on fleabay right now ... it's not that I don't have the money ,
I just hate to replace something that I can repair .

If the patch is 6061 then you definitely want to use 4043 wire. When I
repaired the cast door on my lathe I knew 4043 was the rod of choice
for the combination of 6061 and cast, but when I tried the 5356 that
was on hand I couldn't get it to work without cracking.

Back in the bad old days building marine hardware, 4043 was the rod of
choice and I don't recall ever having a problem welding the odd
casting.

I doubt you'll ever get the casting clean enough to avoid black smut
around the weld, but as long as it just needs to be reasonable
oil-tight and isn't highly stressed, you should be fine.

The inside & outside of the lathe door. I suspect someone tried to
pick up the end with a fork truck without paying attention to the
door. The patched-in pieces are a mix of original fragments and new
6061 material.
http://www.nedsim.com/news/DSCN0437.JPG
http://www.nedsim.com/Monarch61Rebui...arch61_16.html

--
Ned Simmons

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
...
...
http://www.nedsim.com/news/DSCN0437.JPG
http://www.nedsim.com/Monarch61Rebui...arch61_16.html

--
Ned Simmons

If the rest of your shop looks like that you could open it on weekends
and compete with Owls Head for tourists.

I can hear the South Bend downstairs whining that I'm behind on its
restoration.

-jsw

Terry Coombs wrote:
My little tractor has had a mishap , it put a con rod out the side of the
motor . Motor in question is a Kohler KT17 opposed twin . Since these are
rather hard - and expensive - to replace , I would like to repair the hole
by welding a patch over it . This unit is over 30 years old and oil soaked
,,, I've had reasonable success a couple of times , but nothing I'd write
home about , and I'm pretty sure the reason is I haven't been getting all
the oil out of the pores .
How long and at what temp do I need to bake this thing to be reasonably
sure I've got most of the oil out ? It will be degreased with solvent first
followed by a thorough scrubbing with detergent before baking . The part
looks to be die cast , which I believe means it has a fair percentage of
silicon in the alloy , which rod is recommended ? I have on hand 4043 and
5356 , but can get other if needed .
Or do I just need to bite the bullet and drop 130 bucks on a replacement ?
There is one on fleabay right now ... it's not that I don't have the money ,
I just hate to replace something that I can repair .



300-350 degrees will bake most of the oil out. You will want to solvent
wash, bake, solvent wash then bake again to get the most oil out. Then
scrub it to get the crud off before welding.
4043 rod/wire will do the job. Check around the broken out area for
other cracks.


--
Steve W.

On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 09:03:21 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

My little tractor has had a mishap , it put a con rod out the side of the
motor . Motor in question is a Kohler KT17 opposed twin . Since these are
rather hard - and expensive - to replace , I would like to repair the hole
by welding a patch over it . This unit is over 30 years old and oil soaked
,,, I've had reasonable success a couple of times , but nothing I'd write
home about , and I'm pretty sure the reason is I haven't been getting all
the oil out of the pores .
How long and at what temp do I need to bake this thing to be reasonably
sure I've got most of the oil out ? It will be degreased with solvent first
followed by a thorough scrubbing with detergent before baking . The part
looks to be die cast , which I believe means it has a fair percentage of
silicon in the alloy , which rod is recommended ? I have on hand 4043 and
5356 , but can get other if needed .
Or do I just need to bite the bullet and drop 130 bucks on a replacement ?
There is one on fleabay right now ... it's not that I don't have the money ,
I just hate to replace something that I can repair .

Many years ago I TIG welded a spot, that was missing a small chunk, on
an Aluminum side cover on a Harley for a biker friend. I used a std Al
rod, whatever that was. He had cleaned it up before he brought it
over. Apparently he did a good job as I never had any complaints. IIRC
he mentioned something about boiling it in acetone. How about maybe
finding someone who has a vapor de-greaser or maybe a steam cleaner?
If it's not in a critical place maybe you could make a cover plate and
just bolt it on using a gasket to prevent leaks.

Ned Simmons wrote:
On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 09:03:21 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

My little tractor has had a mishap , it put a con rod out the side of the
motor . Motor in question is a Kohler KT17 opposed twin . Since these are
rather hard - and expensive - to replace , I would like to repair the hole
by welding a patch over it . This unit is over 30 years old and oil soaked
,,, I've had reasonable success a couple of times , but nothing I'd write
home about , and I'm pretty sure the reason is I haven't been getting all
the oil out of the pores .
How long and at what temp do I need to bake this thing to be reasonably
sure I've got most of the oil out ? It will be degreased with solvent first
followed by a thorough scrubbing with detergent before baking . The part
looks to be die cast , which I believe means it has a fair percentage of
silicon in the alloy , which rod is recommended ? I have on hand 4043 and
5356 , but can get other if needed .
Or do I just need to bite the bullet and drop 130 bucks on a replacement ?
There is one on fleabay right now ... it's not that I don't have the money ,
I just hate to replace something that I can repair .

If the patch is 6061 then you definitely want to use 4043 wire. When I
repaired the cast door on my lathe I knew 4043 was the rod of choice
for the combination of 6061 and cast, but when I tried the 5356 that
was on hand I couldn't get it to work without cracking.

Back in the bad old days building marine hardware, 4043 was the rod of
choice and I don't recall ever having a problem welding the odd
casting.

I doubt you'll ever get the casting clean enough to avoid black smut
around the weld, but as long as it just needs to be reasonable
oil-tight and isn't highly stressed, you should be fine.

The inside & outside of the lathe door. I suspect someone tried to
pick up the end with a fork truck without paying attention to the
door. The patched-in pieces are a mix of original fragments and new
6061 material.
http://www.nedsim.com/news/DSCN0437.JPG
http://www.nedsim.com/Monarch61Rebui...arch61_16.html

How old is that lathe? It has an interesting look How toxic was the paint
you used?

Gray_Wolf wrote:
On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 09:03:21 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

My little tractor has had a mishap , it put a con rod out the side
of the motor . Motor in question is a Kohler KT17 opposed twin .
Since these are rather hard - and expensive - to replace , I would
like to repair the hole by welding a patch over it . This unit is
over 30 years old and oil soaked ,,, I've had reasonable success a
couple of times , but nothing I'd write home about , and I'm pretty
sure the reason is I haven't been getting all the oil out of the
pores . How long and at what temp do I need to bake this thing to
be reasonably sure I've got most of the oil out ? It will be
degreased with solvent first followed by a thorough scrubbing with
detergent before baking . The part looks to be die cast , which I
believe means it has a fair percentage of silicon in the alloy ,
which rod is recommended ? I have on hand 4043 and 5356 , but can
get other if needed . Or do I just need to bite the bullet and drop
130 bucks on a replacement ? There is one on fleabay right now ...
it's not that I don't have the money , I just hate to replace
something that I can repair .

Many years ago I TIG welded a spot, that was missing a small chunk, on
an Aluminum side cover on a Harley for a biker friend. I used a std Al
rod, whatever that was. He had cleaned it up before he brought it
over. Apparently he did a good job as I never had any complaints. IIRC
he mentioned something about boiling it in acetone. How about maybe
finding someone who has a vapor de-greaser or maybe a steam cleaner?
If it's not in a critical place maybe you could make a cover plate and
just bolt it on using a gasket to prevent leaks.

My thanks to everyone for your advice and information . The welding point
has been rendered moot , I found a starter-side case half for 75 bucks and
bought it ... along with a gasket set and a used con rod . I'm negotiating
with a guy for a crank , if I get that it will replace all the parts that
are broken . The pistons/bores are right at the wear limit , so I'll re-use
those and give the cylinders a light hone to reseat the rings . Might see if
I can knurl the pistons lightly to tighten things up just a smidgen . Looks
like I'll be able to bring this repair project in right at the self-imposed
budget .
--
Snag

On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 14:46:04 -0500
"Terry Coombs" wrote:

snip
My thanks to everyone for your advice and information . The welding point
has been rendered moot , I found a starter-side case half for 75 bucks and
bought it ... along with a gasket set and a used con rod . I'm negotiating
with a guy for a crank , if I get that it will replace all the parts that
are broken . The pistons/bores are right at the wear limit , so I'll re-use
those and give the cylinders a light hone to reseat the rings . Might see if
I can knurl the pistons lightly to tighten things up just a smidgen . Looks
like I'll be able to bring this repair project in right at the self-imposed
budget .

You still might want to try welding up the old one for a bit of
education/practice. No better way to try stuff out like that...

Had a break in the heat & humidity here yesterday. Managed to get a
bracket welded back on my neighbor's old sickle mower. Nothing special,
1/8 inch 6013 stick after some serious grinding off the broken weld. Was
going to use one of my 4.5 inch grinders until I looked it over
again... Dug out my 9 inch and even using that one it took 5-10 minutes
to make the old, broken weld disappear. That grinder makes **** poor
tacks disappear too right quick too...

Was getting the hang of it again (stick welding) just before I was
done ;-)

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

Leon Fisk wrote:
On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 14:46:04 -0500
"Terry Coombs" wrote:

snip
My thanks to everyone for your advice and information . The welding
point has been rendered moot , I found a starter-side case half for
75 bucks and bought it ... along with a gasket set and a used con
rod . I'm negotiating with a guy for a crank , if I get that it will
replace all the parts that are broken . The pistons/bores are right
at the wear limit , so I'll re-use those and give the cylinders a
light hone to reseat the rings . Might see if I can knurl the
pistons lightly to tighten things up just a smidgen . Looks like
I'll be able to bring this repair project in right at the
self-imposed budget .

You still might want to try welding up the old one for a bit of
education/practice. No better way to try stuff out like that...


Count on it !

Update - the wife said "why not go ahead and replace everything you need
to " so I looked for a set of pistons ... be sittin' when you price that
stuff , it's all discontinued . I did find a standard piston for 142 bucks
per with rings , but standard size only . Soooo , I'll be doing a light
knurl on the thrust faces to tighten up a little (less is better , you're
reducing the wear surface area when you do that) and installing new rings
after a light honing . That might get another 15 years out of it ... it's
already 33 years old .
--
Snag

On 8/21/2015 10:47 AM, Ned Simmons wrote:
....
http://www.nedsim.com/news/DSCN0437.JPG

Nice

http://www.nedsim.com/Monarch61Rebui...arch61_16.html

Very nice!

"Terry Coombs" wrote in message
...
Leon Fisk wrote:
On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 14:46:04 -0500
"Terry Coombs" wrote:

snip
My thanks to everyone for your advice and information . The
welding
point has been rendered moot , I found a starter-side case half
for
75 bucks and bought it ... along with a gasket set and a used con
rod . I'm negotiating with a guy for a crank , if I get that it
will
replace all the parts that are broken . The pistons/bores are
right
at the wear limit , so I'll re-use those and give the cylinders a
light hone to reseat the rings . Might see if I can knurl the
pistons lightly to tighten things up just a smidgen . Looks like
I'll be able to bring this repair project in right at the
self-imposed budget .

You still might want to try welding up the old one for a bit of
education/practice. No better way to try stuff out like that...


Count on it !

Update - the wife said "why not go ahead and replace everything you
need to " so I looked for a set of pistons ... be sittin' when you
price that stuff , it's all discontinued . I did find a standard
piston for 142 bucks per with rings , but standard size only . Soooo
, I'll be doing a light knurl on the thrust faces to tighten up a
little (less is better , you're reducing the wear surface area when
you do that) and installing new rings after a light honing . That
might get another 15 years out of it ... it's already 33 years old .
--
Snag

You got me checking on parts for the B&S 18HP opposed twin in my ~1988
tractor.
http://www.briggsandstratton.com/us/...422437-0758-01

The local hardware store had a new starter pinion for it.

-jsw

On Friday, August 21, 2015 at 1:52:12 PM UTC-4, Steve W. wrote:



300-350 degrees will bake most of the oil out. You will want to solvent
wash, bake, solvent wash then bake again to get the most oil out. Then
scrub it to get the crud off before welding.
4043 rod/wire will do the job. Check around the broken out area for
other cracks.


--
Steve W.

I would solvent wash until it seems clean, then maybe try a different solvent and wash again. I would start with paint thinner. Cheaper than any other solvent. and then try a little carb cleaner , or brake clean, or Acetone, or Trich,

The ornage based grease removers do not evaporate quickly so might be good to try that and then wait for some hours before solvent washing again.

I would not bake it between solvent cleanings. I could be wrong, but I think baking drives off all the lighter oils and makes it harder to wash out what is left.

My opinion is worth every bit of what you paid for it.

Dan

On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 12:54:12 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
.. .
...
http://www.nedsim.com/news/DSCN0437.JPG
http://www.nedsim.com/Monarch61Rebui...arch61_16.html

--
Ned Simmons

If the rest of your shop looks like that you could open it on weekends
and compete with Owls Head for tourists.

Sounds like my worst nightmare. g But you're welcome to stop by on
your way to Owls Head.


I can hear the South Bend downstairs whining that I'm behind on its
restoration.

At least with the SB you can see or hear most anything that's likely
to need attention.


-jsw


--
Ned Simmons

On Friday, August 21, 2015 at 6:46:35 PM UTC-4, Terry Coombs wrote:

Update - the wife said "why not go ahead and replace everything you need
to " so I looked for a set of pistons ... be sittin' when you price that
stuff , it's all discontinued . I did find a standard piston for 142 bucks
per with rings , but standard size only .
Snag


Sounds like my TV. A 32 inch LG lcd tv. The picture went to hell and I am pretty sure it is the T con board. New T con board from LG , a mere $763.xx

A new 32 inch Samsung was $218. off ebay.


Dan

On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 19:40:31 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

Ned Simmons wrote:
On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 09:03:21 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

My little tractor has had a mishap , it put a con rod out the side of the
motor . Motor in question is a Kohler KT17 opposed twin . Since these are
rather hard - and expensive - to replace , I would like to repair the hole
by welding a patch over it . This unit is over 30 years old and oil soaked
,,, I've had reasonable success a couple of times , but nothing I'd write
home about , and I'm pretty sure the reason is I haven't been getting all
the oil out of the pores .
How long and at what temp do I need to bake this thing to be reasonably
sure I've got most of the oil out ? It will be degreased with solvent first
followed by a thorough scrubbing with detergent before baking . The part
looks to be die cast , which I believe means it has a fair percentage of
silicon in the alloy , which rod is recommended ? I have on hand 4043 and
5356 , but can get other if needed .
Or do I just need to bite the bullet and drop 130 bucks on a replacement ?
There is one on fleabay right now ... it's not that I don't have the money ,
I just hate to replace something that I can repair .

If the patch is 6061 then you definitely want to use 4043 wire. When I
repaired the cast door on my lathe I knew 4043 was the rod of choice
for the combination of 6061 and cast, but when I tried the 5356 that
was on hand I couldn't get it to work without cracking.

Back in the bad old days building marine hardware, 4043 was the rod of
choice and I don't recall ever having a problem welding the odd
casting.

I doubt you'll ever get the casting clean enough to avoid black smut
around the weld, but as long as it just needs to be reasonable
oil-tight and isn't highly stressed, you should be fine.

The inside & outside of the lathe door. I suspect someone tried to
pick up the end with a fork truck without paying attention to the
door. The patched-in pieces are a mix of original fragments and new
6061 material.
http://www.nedsim.com/news/DSCN0437.JPG
http://www.nedsim.com/Monarch61Rebui...arch61_16.html

How old is that lathe? It has an interesting look How toxic was the paint
you used?


The nameplate says 1951. It seems like it was a transitional machine
between pre-carbide and more modern high-horsepower lathes. Earlier
Monarchs of similar size topped out around 500 RPM, later machines
typically had 20 HP and larger motors. Mine has a 7.5 HP motor and a
top speed around 1000 RPM.

The solvents in the Rustoleum epoxy aren't too nasty, and dissipate
pretty quickly. Mainly xylene, I think. The mist when spraying is
irritating to breath, even outdoors, but a good dust mask seems to
take care of that. I'm sure it'd be much worse for someone who's been
sensitized to epoxies. It's downright benign compared to urethanes
like Imron, which I won't go near.

--
Ned Simmons

On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 10:47:10 -0400, Ned Simmons
wrote:

On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 09:03:21 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

My little tractor has had a mishap , it put a con rod out the side of the
motor . Motor in question is a Kohler KT17 opposed twin . Since these are
rather hard - and expensive - to replace , I would like to repair the hole
by welding a patch over it . This unit is over 30 years old and oil soaked
,,, I've had reasonable success a couple of times , but nothing I'd write
home about , and I'm pretty sure the reason is I haven't been getting all
the oil out of the pores .
How long and at what temp do I need to bake this thing to be reasonably
sure I've got most of the oil out ? It will be degreased with solvent first
followed by a thorough scrubbing with detergent before baking . The part
looks to be die cast , which I believe means it has a fair percentage of
silicon in the alloy , which rod is recommended ? I have on hand 4043 and
5356 , but can get other if needed .
Or do I just need to bite the bullet and drop 130 bucks on a replacement ?
There is one on fleabay right now ... it's not that I don't have the money ,
I just hate to replace something that I can repair .

If the patch is 6061 then you definitely want to use 4043 wire. When I
repaired the cast door on my lathe I knew 4043 was the rod of choice
for the combination of 6061 and cast, but when I tried the 5356 that
was on hand I couldn't get it to work without cracking.

Back in the bad old days building marine hardware, 4043 was the rod of
choice and I don't recall ever having a problem welding the odd
casting.

I doubt you'll ever get the casting clean enough to avoid black smut
around the weld, but as long as it just needs to be reasonable
oil-tight and isn't highly stressed, you should be fine.

The inside & outside of the lathe door. I suspect someone tried to
pick up the end with a fork truck without paying attention to the
door. The patched-in pieces are a mix of original fragments and new
6061 material.
http://www.nedsim.com/news/DSCN0437.JPG
http://www.nedsim.com/Monarch61Rebui...arch61_16.html
If "I" was doing it I'd grab the aluminum repair brazing rod and
cut/grind a patch of 6061 to fill the hole, then "braze" the patch in.
A lot more forgiving of a wee bit of oil or carbon than tigging

On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 19:40:31 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
wrote:

Ned Simmons wrote:
On Fri, 21 Aug 2015 09:03:21 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote:

My little tractor has had a mishap , it put a con rod out the side of the
motor . Motor in question is a Kohler KT17 opposed twin . Since these are
rather hard - and expensive - to replace , I would like to repair the hole
by welding a patch over it . This unit is over 30 years old and oil soaked
,,, I've had reasonable success a couple of times , but nothing I'd write
home about , and I'm pretty sure the reason is I haven't been getting all
the oil out of the pores .
How long and at what temp do I need to bake this thing to be reasonably
sure I've got most of the oil out ? It will be degreased with solvent first
followed by a thorough scrubbing with detergent before baking . The part
looks to be die cast , which I believe means it has a fair percentage of
silicon in the alloy , which rod is recommended ? I have on hand 4043 and
5356 , but can get other if needed .
Or do I just need to bite the bullet and drop 130 bucks on a replacement ?
There is one on fleabay right now ... it's not that I don't have the money ,
I just hate to replace something that I can repair .

If the patch is 6061 then you definitely want to use 4043 wire. When I
repaired the cast door on my lathe I knew 4043 was the rod of choice
for the combination of 6061 and cast, but when I tried the 5356 that
was on hand I couldn't get it to work without cracking.

Back in the bad old days building marine hardware, 4043 was the rod of
choice and I don't recall ever having a problem welding the odd
casting.

I doubt you'll ever get the casting clean enough to avoid black smut
around the weld, but as long as it just needs to be reasonable
oil-tight and isn't highly stressed, you should be fine.

The inside & outside of the lathe door. I suspect someone tried to
pick up the end with a fork truck without paying attention to the
door. The patched-in pieces are a mix of original fragments and new
6061 material.
http://www.nedsim.com/news/DSCN0437.JPG
http://www.nedsim.com/Monarch61Rebui...arch61_16.html

How old is that lathe? It has an interesting look How toxic was the paint
you used?


The nameplate says 1951. It seems like it was a transitional machine
between pre-carbide and more modern high-horsepower lathes. Earlier
Monarchs of similar size topped out around 500 RPM, later machines
typically had 20 HP and larger motors. Mine has a 7.5 HP motor and a
top speed around 1000 RPM.

The solvents in the Rustoleum epoxy aren't too nasty, and dissipate
pretty quickly. Mainly xylene, I think. The mist when spraying is
irritating to breath, even outdoors, but a good dust mask seems to
take care of that. I'm sure it'd be much worse for someone who's been
sensitized to epoxies. It's downright benign compared to urethanes
like Imron, which I won't go near.

--
Ned Simmons