Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Default soldering stainless - silver vs 50/50

I botched up the edge of a stainless steel darkroom sink with a saw.
Whoops. The cut into the edge is cosmetic, but really really ugly. I
called the manufacturer of the sink to see how to best patch the cut which
is a tad over 1/6" wide and about 5/8" long. It passes though a folded
edge of what seems to be 3 layers of 24 guage stainless. I belive it's 304
but am not 100% sure, and forgot to ask.

I was told, yes it can be soldered and to use 50/50 lead/tin solder, any
really active fluxes for stainless and do not use a torch as it will
oxidize the metal.

Harris makes a liquid flux that seems to be fine for stainless. The issue
is it seems people really like silver solder for stainless. Even the old
timer at the local welding store seemed baffled by using 50/50 on
stainless.

Obviously both can and do work. Any ideas on why one might use a silver
solder vs the 50/50 stuff? Harris makes something called Stay-Brite solder
which appears to be something close to or the same as silver solder or
potable water stuff. Is it the same, or can plain lead free plumbing
solder be used on stainless?



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Default soldering stainless - silver vs 50/50

On 7/08/2015 4:48 AM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
I botched up the edge of a stainless steel darkroom sink with a saw.
Whoops. The cut into the edge is cosmetic, but really really ugly. I
called the manufacturer of the sink to see how to best patch the cut which
is a tad over 1/6" wide and about 5/8" long. It passes though a folded
edge of what seems to be 3 layers of 24 guage stainless. I belive it's 304
but am not 100% sure, and forgot to ask.

I was told, yes it can be soldered and to use 50/50 lead/tin solder, any
really active fluxes for stainless and do not use a torch as it will
oxidize the metal.

Harris makes a liquid flux that seems to be fine for stainless. The issue
is it seems people really like silver solder for stainless. Even the old
timer at the local welding store seemed baffled by using 50/50 on
stainless.

Obviously both can and do work. Any ideas on why one might use a silver
solder vs the 50/50 stuff? Harris makes something called Stay-Brite solder
which appears to be something close to or the same as silver solder or
potable water stuff. Is it the same, or can plain lead free plumbing
solder be used on stainless?



You gunna need a torch for silver solder .
Best call Harris and see what they recommend to use.
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Default soldering stainless - silver vs 50/50

On Thursday, August 6, 2015 at 3:18:09 PM UTC-4, Cydrome Leader wrote:

Obviously both can and do work. Any ideas on why one might use a silver
solder vs the 50/50 stuff? Harris makes something called Stay-Brite solder
which appears to be something close to or the same as silver solder or
potable water stuff. Is it the same, or can plain lead free plumbing
solder be used on stainless?


Take all my comments wit a grain of salt. I have no experience using 50-50 solder on stainless.

I suspoct 50-50 solder would oxidize with time and not be a good color match.

Real hard silver solder will be harder and a better color match, but a lot more expensive.

I think if I were going to try the repair, I would get some stainless steel and beat it into a shape that would fill in the cut. And then solder that in place, And sand as necessary to blend everything together.

I would use real silver solder , but then I already have some on hand. Second choice would be the stay brite. Notice the name implies that it stays shiny.

I would probably slather on flux and use a propane torch because I do not think I have a soldering iron that is big enough.

Dan

Actually I would make a piece to fill in the cut and then use my arc welder with stainless rod to put everything together. But I have assumed you do not have a welder handy.
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Default soldering stainless - silver vs 50/50

On Thu, 6 Aug 2015 18:07:14 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Thursday, August 6, 2015 at 3:18:09 PM UTC-4, Cydrome Leader wrote:

Obviously both can and do work. Any ideas on why one might use a silver
solder vs the 50/50 stuff? Harris makes something called Stay-Brite solder
which appears to be something close to or the same as silver solder or
potable water stuff. Is it the same, or can plain lead free plumbing
solder be used on stainless?


Take all my comments wit a grain of salt. I have no experience using 50-50 solder on stainless.

I suspoct 50-50 solder would oxidize with time and not be a good color match.

Real hard silver solder will be harder and a better color match, but a lot more expensive.

I think if I were going to try the repair, I would get some stainless steel and beat it into a shape that would fill in the cut. And then solder that in place, And sand as necessary to blend everything together.

I would use real silver solder , but then I already have some on hand. Second choice would be the stay brite. Notice the name implies that it stays shiny.

I would probably slather on flux and use a propane torch because I do not think I have a soldering iron that is big enough.

Dan

Actually I would make a piece to fill in the cut and then use my arc welder with stainless rod to put everything together. But I have assumed you do not have a welder handy.


I haven't had great luck soldering stainless, although I haven't tried
for 20 years. I once had some great flux that one of our advertisers
gave me as a sample, and I could do it with that. I have two soldering
irons over 300 W and the stainless was thin -- probably 0.020". That
was lead/tin solder, which I still have and use. Stainless has lower
thermal conductivity than carbon steel and it's actually a lot easier
to heat to soldering temperature as a result.

So I don't have nuch help to offer on that score. However, I have a
caution: The OP said this is a darkroom sink. If he's processing film
the traditional way, he'll be using hypo (fixer), and that attacks
silver metal as well as silver halide.

How long it may take, I don't know, but hypo is ammonium thiosulfate.
You probably could look up its rate of activity with silver.

'Just a caution.

--
Ed Huntress


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Default soldering stainless - silver vs 50/50

I'd do some research. Maybe lead silver solder would be best. There is
nickel and other metals in SS. Depends on the Alloy of the SS.

Martin

On 8/6/2015 8:42 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Thu, 6 Aug 2015 18:07:14 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Thursday, August 6, 2015 at 3:18:09 PM UTC-4, Cydrome Leader wrote:

Obviously both can and do work. Any ideas on why one might use a silver
solder vs the 50/50 stuff? Harris makes something called Stay-Brite solder
which appears to be something close to or the same as silver solder or
potable water stuff. Is it the same, or can plain lead free plumbing
solder be used on stainless?


Take all my comments wit a grain of salt. I have no experience using 50-50 solder on stainless.

I suspoct 50-50 solder would oxidize with time and not be a good color match.

Real hard silver solder will be harder and a better color match, but a lot more expensive.

I think if I were going to try the repair, I would get some stainless steel and beat it into a shape that would fill in the cut. And then solder that in place, And sand as necessary to blend everything together.

I would use real silver solder , but then I already have some on hand. Second choice would be the stay brite. Notice the name implies that it stays shiny.

I would probably slather on flux and use a propane torch because I do not think I have a soldering iron that is big enough.

Dan

Actually I would make a piece to fill in the cut and then use my arc welder with stainless rod to put everything together. But I have assumed you do not have a welder handy.


I haven't had great luck soldering stainless, although I haven't tried
for 20 years. I once had some great flux that one of our advertisers
gave me as a sample, and I could do it with that. I have two soldering
irons over 300 W and the stainless was thin -- probably 0.020". That
was lead/tin solder, which I still have and use. Stainless has lower
thermal conductivity than carbon steel and it's actually a lot easier
to heat to soldering temperature as a result.

So I don't have nuch help to offer on that score. However, I have a
caution: The OP said this is a darkroom sink. If he's processing film
the traditional way, he'll be using hypo (fixer), and that attacks
silver metal as well as silver halide.

How long it may take, I don't know, but hypo is ammonium thiosulfate.
You probably could look up its rate of activity with silver.

'Just a caution.



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Default soldering stainless - silver vs 50/50

On Thu, 6 Aug 2015 18:07:14 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Thursday, August 6, 2015 at 3:18:09 PM UTC-4, Cydrome Leader wrote:

Obviously both can and do work. Any ideas on why one might use a silver
solder vs the 50/50 stuff? Harris makes something called Stay-Brite solder
which appears to be something close to or the same as silver solder or
potable water stuff. Is it the same, or can plain lead free plumbing
solder be used on stainless?


Take all my comments wit a grain of salt. I have no experience using 50-50 solder on stainless.

I suspoct 50-50 solder would oxidize with time and not be a good color match.

Real hard silver solder will be harder and a better color match, but a lot more expensive.

I think if I were going to try the repair, I would get some stainless steel and beat it into a shape that would fill in the cut. And then solder that in place, And sand as necessary to blend everything together.

I would use real silver solder , but then I already have some on hand. Second choice would be the stay brite. Notice the name implies that it stays shiny.

I would probably slather on flux and use a propane torch because I do not think I have a soldering iron that is big enough.

Dan

Actually I would make a piece to fill in the cut and then use my arc welder with stainless rod to put everything together. But I have assumed you do not have a welder handy.


I don't have the details of what was used but a year or so ago we had
a stainless gutter installed on one edge of the roof. The sheet metal
guys showed up with two big - maybe 5 lb. or heavier - soldering
coppers and a small LPG tank with a burner on the top. They heated up
the coppers and pro ceded to solder the gutter sections together so it
was leak proof.

While I didn't watch them closely it appeared that they were soldering
just as they would with galvanized iron. Smeared some paste on it put
the copper on it and in a moment ran a bead of solder.

To the best of my knowledge silver solder doesn't melt at temperatures
you can achieve with copper so it must have been some sort of soft
solder.
--
cheers,

John B.
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Default soldering stainless - silver vs 50/50

In article , Cydrome Leader
wrote:

I botched up the edge of a stainless steel darkroom sink with a saw.
Whoops. The cut into the edge is cosmetic, but really really ugly. I
called the manufacturer of the sink to see how to best patch the cut which
is a tad over 1/6" wide and about 5/8" long. It passes though a folded
edge of what seems to be 3 layers of 24 guage stainless. I belive it's 304
but am not 100% sure, and forgot to ask.

I was told, yes it can be soldered and to use 50/50 lead/tin solder, any
really active fluxes for stainless and do not use a torch as it will
oxidize the metal.

Harris makes a liquid flux that seems to be fine for stainless. The issue
is it seems people really like silver solder for stainless. Even the old
timer at the local welding store seemed baffled by using 50/50 on
stainless.

Obviously both can and do work. Any ideas on why one might use a silver
solder vs the 50/50 stuff? Harris makes something called Stay-Brite solder
which appears to be something close to or the same as silver solder or
potable water stuff. Is it the same, or can plain lead free plumbing
solder be used on stainless?


There are special fluxes for soft-soldering stainless steel. These
fluxes contain phosphoric acid.

There are also a number of standard soft solder (meaning it melts below
800 F) varieties for work on stainless steel.

Plumbing supply houses usually carry these fluxes and solders.

Do not try to hard-solder stainless steel sinks unless they are made of
a low-carbon stainless steel alloy that will not be ruined if heated to
a red heat.

The term "silver solder" is ambiguous. There are silver-bearing hard
and soft solders. The key is the temperature needed to solder.

Joe Gwinn
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Default soldering stainless - silver vs 50/50

Ed Huntress wrote:
On Thu, 6 Aug 2015 18:07:14 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Thursday, August 6, 2015 at 3:18:09 PM UTC-4, Cydrome Leader wrote:

Obviously both can and do work. Any ideas on why one might use a silver
solder vs the 50/50 stuff? Harris makes something called Stay-Brite solder
which appears to be something close to or the same as silver solder or
potable water stuff. Is it the same, or can plain lead free plumbing
solder be used on stainless?


Take all my comments wit a grain of salt. I have no experience using 50-50 solder on stainless.

I suspoct 50-50 solder would oxidize with time and not be a good color match.

Real hard silver solder will be harder and a better color match, but a lot more expensive.

I think if I were going to try the repair, I would get some stainless steel and beat it into a shape that would fill in the cut. And then solder that in place, And sand as necessary to blend everything together.

I would use real silver solder , but then I already have some on hand. Second choice would be the stay brite. Notice the name implies that it stays shiny.

I would probably slather on flux and use a propane torch because I do not think I have a soldering iron that is big enough.

Dan

Actually I would make a piece to fill in the cut and then use my arc welder with stainless rod to put everything together. But I have assumed you do not have a welder handy.


I haven't had great luck soldering stainless, although I haven't tried
for 20 years. I once had some great flux that one of our advertisers
gave me as a sample, and I could do it with that. I have two soldering
irons over 300 W and the stainless was thin -- probably 0.020". That
was lead/tin solder, which I still have and use. Stainless has lower
thermal conductivity than carbon steel and it's actually a lot easier
to heat to soldering temperature as a result.

So I don't have nuch help to offer on that score. However, I have a
caution: The OP said this is a darkroom sink. If he's processing film
the traditional way, he'll be using hypo (fixer), and that attacks
silver metal as well as silver halide.

How long it may take, I don't know, but hypo is ammonium thiosulfate.
You probably could look up its rate of activity with silver.

'Just a caution.


Never thought about the fixer eating silver from silver bearing solder.
The guy that made the sink has been making these for decades and knows
what he's doing.

It is true the "factory" solder doesn't match the color of the stainless
at all and is dark grey/nearly black. but it has has in fact lasted what I
suspect to be decades already, and I've seen a bunch of the sinks made by
that company.

There is cracking of the solder in other areas that do not actually get
wet, and I was assured that they can be touched up and reflowed if I'm
familiar with soldering.

The maker was sort of vague about the iron he uses other than it's copper
and gas heated. I wasn't able to find out if it's a torch with a copper
head or just a block of copper he heats with a separate torch.

I ordered the harris liquid flux and a roll of 50-50. Will get a fresh
stainless brush and report back in a week or so, or when I can dig up a
200 or maybe 300 watt iron.
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Default soldering stainless - silver vs 50/50

On Friday, August 7, 2015 at 10:59:32 AM UTC-7, Cydrome Leader wrote:
Ed Huntress wrote:
On Thu, 6 Aug 2015 18:07:14 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Thursday, August 6, 2015 at 3:18:09 PM UTC-4, Cydrome Leader wrote:

Obviously both can and do work. Any ideas on why one might use a silver
solder vs the 50/50 stuff?


Never thought about the fixer eating silver from silver bearing solder.
The guy that made the sink has been making these for decades and knows
what he's doing.

It is true the "factory" solder doesn't match the color of the stainless
at all and is dark grey/nearly black. but it has has in fact lasted what I
suspect to be decades already, and I've seen a bunch of the sinks made by
that company.

There is cracking of the solder in other areas that do not actually get
wet, and I was assured that they can be touched up and reflowed if I'm
familiar with soldering.


So, it's soft-solder. If you apply flux anywhere that gets wet, it might matter
how you passivate afterward (even stainless is attacked by some photographic
chemicals, if you don't treat the surface - passivate it). Any effective
solder flux will damage the existing passivation.

Oxidizing acid (dilute nitric, or maybe citric) is typically used to passivate stainless steel.
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Default soldering stainless - silver vs 50/50

Sounds like a recycle pit is the best bet.
Martin

On 8/7/2015 12:59 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
Ed Huntress wrote:
On Thu, 6 Aug 2015 18:07:14 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Thursday, August 6, 2015 at 3:18:09 PM UTC-4, Cydrome Leader wrote:

Obviously both can and do work. Any ideas on why one might use a silver
solder vs the 50/50 stuff? Harris makes something called Stay-Brite solder
which appears to be something close to or the same as silver solder or
potable water stuff. Is it the same, or can plain lead free plumbing
solder be used on stainless?

Take all my comments wit a grain of salt. I have no experience using 50-50 solder on stainless.

I suspoct 50-50 solder would oxidize with time and not be a good color match.

Real hard silver solder will be harder and a better color match, but a lot more expensive.

I think if I were going to try the repair, I would get some stainless steel and beat it into a shape that would fill in the cut. And then solder that in place, And sand as necessary to blend everything together.

I would use real silver solder , but then I already have some on hand. Second choice would be the stay brite. Notice the name implies that it stays shiny.

I would probably slather on flux and use a propane torch because I do not think I have a soldering iron that is big enough.

Dan

Actually I would make a piece to fill in the cut and then use my arc welder with stainless rod to put everything together. But I have assumed you do not have a welder handy.


I haven't had great luck soldering stainless, although I haven't tried
for 20 years. I once had some great flux that one of our advertisers
gave me as a sample, and I could do it with that. I have two soldering
irons over 300 W and the stainless was thin -- probably 0.020". That
was lead/tin solder, which I still have and use. Stainless has lower
thermal conductivity than carbon steel and it's actually a lot easier
to heat to soldering temperature as a result.

So I don't have nuch help to offer on that score. However, I have a
caution: The OP said this is a darkroom sink. If he's processing film
the traditional way, he'll be using hypo (fixer), and that attacks
silver metal as well as silver halide.

How long it may take, I don't know, but hypo is ammonium thiosulfate.
You probably could look up its rate of activity with silver.

'Just a caution.


Never thought about the fixer eating silver from silver bearing solder.
The guy that made the sink has been making these for decades and knows
what he's doing.

It is true the "factory" solder doesn't match the color of the stainless
at all and is dark grey/nearly black. but it has has in fact lasted what I
suspect to be decades already, and I've seen a bunch of the sinks made by
that company.

There is cracking of the solder in other areas that do not actually get
wet, and I was assured that they can be touched up and reflowed if I'm
familiar with soldering.

The maker was sort of vague about the iron he uses other than it's copper
and gas heated. I wasn't able to find out if it's a torch with a copper
head or just a block of copper he heats with a separate torch.

I ordered the harris liquid flux and a roll of 50-50. Will get a fresh
stainless brush and report back in a week or so, or when I can dig up a
200 or maybe 300 watt iron.



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Default soldering stainless - silver vs 50/50

Martin Eastburn wrote:
Sounds like a recycle pit is the best bet.
Martin


Nope. This thing will get patched up.

On 8/7/2015 12:59 PM, Cydrome Leader wrote:
Ed Huntress wrote:
On Thu, 6 Aug 2015 18:07:14 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote:

On Thursday, August 6, 2015 at 3:18:09 PM UTC-4, Cydrome Leader wrote:

Obviously both can and do work. Any ideas on why one might use a silver
solder vs the 50/50 stuff? Harris makes something called Stay-Brite solder
which appears to be something close to or the same as silver solder or
potable water stuff. Is it the same, or can plain lead free plumbing
solder be used on stainless?

Take all my comments wit a grain of salt. I have no experience using 50-50 solder on stainless.

I suspoct 50-50 solder would oxidize with time and not be a good color match.

Real hard silver solder will be harder and a better color match, but a lot more expensive.

I think if I were going to try the repair, I would get some stainless steel and beat it into a shape that would fill in the cut. And then solder that in place, And sand as necessary to blend everything together.

I would use real silver solder , but then I already have some on hand. Second choice would be the stay brite. Notice the name implies that it stays shiny.

I would probably slather on flux and use a propane torch because I do not think I have a soldering iron that is big enough.

Dan

Actually I would make a piece to fill in the cut and then use my arc welder with stainless rod to put everything together. But I have assumed you do not have a welder handy.

I haven't had great luck soldering stainless, although I haven't tried
for 20 years. I once had some great flux that one of our advertisers
gave me as a sample, and I could do it with that. I have two soldering
irons over 300 W and the stainless was thin -- probably 0.020". That
was lead/tin solder, which I still have and use. Stainless has lower
thermal conductivity than carbon steel and it's actually a lot easier
to heat to soldering temperature as a result.

So I don't have nuch help to offer on that score. However, I have a
caution: The OP said this is a darkroom sink. If he's processing film
the traditional way, he'll be using hypo (fixer), and that attacks
silver metal as well as silver halide.

How long it may take, I don't know, but hypo is ammonium thiosulfate.
You probably could look up its rate of activity with silver.

'Just a caution.


Never thought about the fixer eating silver from silver bearing solder.
The guy that made the sink has been making these for decades and knows
what he's doing.

It is true the "factory" solder doesn't match the color of the stainless
at all and is dark grey/nearly black. but it has has in fact lasted what I
suspect to be decades already, and I've seen a bunch of the sinks made by
that company.

There is cracking of the solder in other areas that do not actually get
wet, and I was assured that they can be touched up and reflowed if I'm
familiar with soldering.

The maker was sort of vague about the iron he uses other than it's copper
and gas heated. I wasn't able to find out if it's a torch with a copper
head or just a block of copper he heats with a separate torch.

I ordered the harris liquid flux and a roll of 50-50. Will get a fresh
stainless brush and report back in a week or so, or when I can dig up a
200 or maybe 300 watt iron.

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Default soldering stainless - silver vs 50/50

"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message
...
Martin Eastburn wrote:
Sounds like a recycle pit is the best bet.
Martin


Nope. This thing will get patched up.


Would a botched soldering job interfere with a proper TIG repair?



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Default soldering stainless - silver vs 50/50

Jim Wilkins wrote:
"Cydrome Leader" wrote in message
...
Martin Eastburn wrote:
Sounds like a recycle pit is the best bet.
Martin


Nope. This thing will get patched up.


Would a botched soldering job interfere with a proper TIG repair?


YES - unless you grind out ALL of the lead or whatever you used .

--
Snag


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