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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#1
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Dunkin' CEO: $15 minimum wage is 'outrageous'
On Monday, August 3, 2015 at 1:34:46 PM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
Actually, that applies to you. I took the whole post and showed that your entire premise was a pile of ****. Scotty was wrong by a factor of 18. You went along. Now you have a new premise. Tell us about the "numerous" retailers, in concrete terms, and the net result of the wage increases. Be careful -- your "facts" will be checked. -- Ed Huntress You claim to show what will happen, but I think you are wrong. Increasing the minimum wage is likely to have a trickle up effect. The people who were making $ 15 an hour before the minimum wage will get their wages increased. There current employer will either pay more or they will find another job that does pay more. And so on. So eventually even those on Social Security will get more. It will just cause inflation and that will eventually get $15 an hours as not enough to live on. You did not consider anything but the cost of labor going up. But a higher Minimum wage will increase all costs eventually. Dan |
#2
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Dunkin' CEO: $15 minimum wage is 'outrageous'
On Mon, 3 Aug 2015 13:15:20 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote: On Monday, August 3, 2015 at 1:34:46 PM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote: Actually, that applies to you. I took the whole post and showed that your entire premise was a pile of ****. Scotty was wrong by a factor of 18. You went along. Now you have a new premise. Tell us about the "numerous" retailers, in concrete terms, and the net result of the wage increases. Be careful -- your "facts" will be checked. -- Ed Huntress You claim to show what will happen, but I think you are wrong. I do NOT claim to know what will happen. I never said any such thing. I'm pointing out that these two characters don't know what will happen, but they claim they do. There are entire commissions trying to figure out what will happen. Increasing the minimum wage is likely to have a trickle up effect. The people who were making $ 15 an hour before the minimum wage will get their wages increased. There current employer will either pay more or they will find another job that does pay more. And so on. So eventually even those on Social Security will get more. It will just cause inflation and that will eventually get $15 an hours as not enough to live on. Your guess is noted. It sounds a lot like the guess, 7 years ago, that we were headed for raging inflation because of the deficit spending. You did not consider anything but the cost of labor going up. But a higher Minimum wage will increase all costs eventually. Pure speculation. -- Ed Huntress |
#3
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Dunkin' CEO: $15 minimum wage is 'outrageous'
On Monday, August 3, 2015 at 5:07:26 PM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote:
I'm not speculating. I make no claims about the net effect. You are. -- Ed Huntress Actually you are. There is no way to avoid speculating. Whem you say you make to claims about the net effect , you are speculating that there could be no net effect. Not making a choice is in itself a choice. Dan |
#4
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Dunkin' CEO: $15 minimum wage is 'outrageous'
On Mon, 3 Aug 2015 14:21:50 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote: On Monday, August 3, 2015 at 5:07:26 PM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote: I'm not speculating. I make no claims about the net effect. You are. -- Ed Huntress Actually you are. There is no way to avoid speculating. No I'm not. And yes there is a way to avoid it, which is very simple: Just don't do it. Whem you say you make to claims about the net effect , you are speculating that there could be no net effect. Jesus, Dan. I'm not saying there is NO net effect. I'm saying I DON'T KNOW WHAT IT WOULD BE. And neither do you. Least of all, BMUS or Worst Post. g Not making a choice is in itself a choice. If it's a choice, it's a choice not be be an asshole and *guess* about something to which I don't know the answer, without acknowledging it's a guess. And this is an issue with too little evidence to guess. -- Ed Huntress Dan |
#5
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Dunkin' CEO: $15 minimum wage is 'outrageous'
On Mon, 03 Aug 2015 16:23:14 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote: On Mon, 3 Aug 2015 13:15:20 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: On Monday, August 3, 2015 at 1:34:46 PM UTC-4, Ed Huntress wrote: Actually, that applies to you. I took the whole post and showed that your entire premise was a pile of ****. Scotty was wrong by a factor of 18. You went along. Now you have a new premise. Tell us about the "numerous" retailers, in concrete terms, and the net result of the wage increases. Be careful -- your "facts" will be checked. -- Ed Huntress You claim to show what will happen, but I think you are wrong. I do NOT claim to know what will happen. I never said any such thing. I'm pointing out that these two characters don't know what will happen, but they claim they do. There are entire commissions trying to figure out what will happen. Increasing the minimum wage is likely to have a trickle up effect. The people who were making $ 15 an hour before the minimum wage will get their wages increased. There current employer will either pay more or they will find another job that does pay more. And so on. So eventually even those on Social Security will get more. It will just cause inflation and that will eventually get $15 an hours as not enough to live on. Your guess is noted. It sounds a lot like the guess, 7 years ago, that we were headed for raging inflation because of the deficit spending. You did not consider anything but the cost of labor going up. But a higher Minimum wage will increase all costs eventually. Pure speculation. I live in a country that doubled the minimum salary on a national basis and costs immediately, the next day in some cases, went up. I asked a owner of a family owned hardware store that I know pretty well about this - "Hey! Hows come your prices have gone up" - and his response was that all of his suppliers and the transport companies had raised their prices so he had to raise his. So in a what might be called a "micro economics" example, compared to the U.S., it does seem result in an immediate increase in costs. I might also add that manual labor use in Thailand may well be much higher than in more developed countries, which might mean that labor costs have a larger effect than in other places. -- cheers, John B. |
#6
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Dunkin' CEO: $15 minimum wage is 'outrageous'
On Mon, 3 Aug 2015 13:15:20 -0700 (PDT), "
wrote: You claim to show what will happen, but I think you are wrong. Increasing the minimum wage is likely to have a trickle up effect. The people who were making $ 15 an hour before the minimum wage will get their wages increased. That..seems to be a problem. Even in mega companies..the hard working money makers are NOT getting their wages increased http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/02/bu...ared.html?_r=0 |
#7
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Dunkin' CEO: $15 minimum wage is 'outrageous'
Raising minimum wage to $15 per hour is a very interesting experiment,
whose objective is to bypass or overrule mechanisms of labor price formation and basic workings of microeconomics. It is also a very bold experiment, in the sense that the legally mandated "labor rate override" is quantitatively large compared to the rates at which job markets cleared previously. What makes it so interesting is that this experiment is confined to small locales. My expectation is that just like the laws of physics, the laws of economics, competition and pricing will work relentlessly, and industries with low pay will either close down, or move out of these cities. The low paid workers would either have to follow those industries out of those cities, or become unemployed. It would be interesting to try to keep track of a few statistics. For example, count the number of jobs that paid under the new minimum wage. After a couple of years, see how many of those jobs still remain. What should happen, is that the rate of economic progress, defined as people being replaced by computers, will increase somewhat. For example, the number of people employed in fast food industry, per million meals sold, will first decline in high minimum wage cities. In other words, it is crazy to hope that the class of people who cannot compete with computers now, will benefit from making them even more expensive to hire. i |
#8
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Dunkin' CEO: $15 minimum wage is 'outrageous'
On Monday, August 3, 2015 at 9:59:59 PM UTC-4, Ignoramus26006 wrote:
In other words, it is crazy to hope that the class of people who cannot compete with computers now, will benefit from making them even more expensive to hire. i +1 Dan |
#9
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Dunkin' CEO: $15 minimum wage is 'outrageous'
On Mon, 03 Aug 2015 20:59:57 -0500, Ignoramus26006
wrote: Raising minimum wage to $15 per hour is a very interesting experiment, whose objective is to bypass or overrule mechanisms of labor price formation and basic workings of microeconomics. It is also a very bold experiment, in the sense that the legally mandated "labor rate override" is quantitatively large compared to the rates at which job markets cleared previously. What makes it so interesting is that this experiment is confined to small locales. My expectation is that just like the laws of physics, the laws of economics, competition and pricing will work relentlessly, and industries with low pay will either close down, or move out of these cities. The low paid workers would either have to follow those industries out of those cities, or become unemployed. It would be interesting to try to keep track of a few statistics. For example, count the number of jobs that paid under the new minimum wage. After a couple of years, see how many of those jobs still remain. What should happen, is that the rate of economic progress, defined as people being replaced by computers, will increase somewhat. For example, the number of people employed in fast food industry, per million meals sold, will first decline in high minimum wage cities. In other words, it is crazy to hope that the class of people who cannot compete with computers now, will benefit from making them even more expensive to hire. i Thailand is a relatively low cost country and for years has enjoyed extensive employment in industries that were built to take advantage of the low costs here. A couple of years ago the political group then in power doubled minimum salaries country wide. Minimum salaries had previously been on a province by province basis relative to living costs in that province. Last week there was a tear jerking article in the news about "industries" in a city in central Thailand being closed. The reason given was that labor costs had risen to the point where it was no longer economical to continue and reference was made to industries moving to Burma and Cambodia where labor costs are substantially cheaper. One factory mentioned had laid off 3,000 workers and the article went into some detail about all the associated businesses that were failing as a result - food vendors, rooming houses, etc. -- cheers, John B. |
#10
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Dunkin' CEO: $15 minimum wage is 'outrageous'
Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 3 Aug 2015 13:15:20 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: You claim to show what will happen, but I think you are wrong. Increasing the minimum wage is likely to have a trickle up effect. The people who were making $ 15 an hour before the minimum wage will get their wages increased. That..seems to be a problem. Even in mega companies..the hard working money makers are NOT getting their wages increased http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/02/bu...ared.html?_r=0 I know y'all have seen the commercials that Walmart has been running about how they raised their minimum wage ... what they don't advertise is that at the same time they cut hours , so the net take-home pay has not changed . Also , there are now new hires that will be making more after their 90 day eval than some people that have been there for 2-4 years . And those folks ain't happy about that ... I sleep next to one . -- Snag |
#11
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Dunkin' CEO: $15 minimum wage is 'outrageous'
On Tue, 4 Aug 2015 20:09:05 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote: Gunner Asch wrote: On Mon, 3 Aug 2015 13:15:20 -0700 (PDT), " wrote: You claim to show what will happen, but I think you are wrong. Increasing the minimum wage is likely to have a trickle up effect. The people who were making $ 15 an hour before the minimum wage will get their wages increased. That..seems to be a problem. Even in mega companies..the hard working money makers are NOT getting their wages increased http://www.nytimes.com/2015/08/02/bu...ared.html?_r=0 I know y'all have seen the commercials that Walmart has been running about how they raised their minimum wage ... what they don't advertise is that at the same time they cut hours , so the net take-home pay has not changed . Also , there are now new hires that will be making more after their 90 day eval than some people that have been there for 2-4 years . And those folks ain't happy about that ... I sleep next to one . Ayup..its gonna be really...."interesting" to see how all this bull**** turns out. That ignorant muzzy in the ****ehouse has turned his idological puppets loose..and things are turning to **** quickly. |
#12
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Dunkin' CEO: $15 minimum wage is 'outrageous'
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#13
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Dunkin' CEO: $15 minimum wage is 'outrageous'
On 8/3/2015 9:59 PM, Ignoramus26006 wrote:
In other words, it is crazy to hope that the class of people who cannot compete with computers now, will benefit from making them even more expensive to hire. i I'm sure that legislation will be proposed to protect people from being replaced by technology, maybe no-robot zones? |
#14
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Dunkin' CEO: $15 minimum wage is 'outrageous'
On 8/4/2015 9:09 PM, Terry Coombs wrote:
I know y'all have seen the commercials that Walmart has been running about how they raised their minimum wage ... what they don't advertise is that at the same time they cut hours , so the net take-home pay has not changed . Also , there are now new hires that will be making more after their 90 day eval than some people that have been there for 2-4 years . And those folks ain't happy about that ... I sleep next to one . Does your wife know about her? |
#15
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Dunkin' CEO: $15 minimum wage is 'outrageous'
Tom Gardner wrote:
On 8/4/2015 9:09 PM, Terry Coombs wrote: I know y'all have seen the commercials that Walmart has been running about how they raised their minimum wage ... what they don't advertise is that at the same time they cut hours , so the net take-home pay has not changed . Also , there are now new hires that will be making more after their 90 day eval than some people that have been there for 2-4 years . And those folks ain't happy about that ... I sleep next to one . Does your wife know about her? No , and if you tell her I'll have to go into hiding ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0iA_rOcn9Y -- Snag |
#16
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Dunkin' CEO: $15 minimum wage is 'outrageous'
On Wed, 5 Aug 2015 07:48:33 -0500, "Terry Coombs"
wrote: Tom Gardner wrote: On 8/4/2015 9:09 PM, Terry Coombs wrote: I know y'all have seen the commercials that Walmart has been running about how they raised their minimum wage ... what they don't advertise is that at the same time they cut hours , so the net take-home pay has not changed . Also , there are now new hires that will be making more after their 90 day eval than some people that have been there for 2-4 years . And those folks ain't happy about that ... I sleep next to one . Does your wife know about her? No , and if you tell her I'll have to go into hiding ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0iA_rOcn9Y Excellent band and song. -- My desire to be well-informed is currently at odds with my desire to remain sane. --Sipkess |
#17
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Dunkin' CEO: $15 minimum wage is 'outrageous'
On 8/6/2015 6:58 PM, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 5 Aug 2015 07:48:33 -0500, "Terry Coombs" wrote: Tom Gardner wrote: On 8/4/2015 9:09 PM, Terry Coombs wrote: I know y'all have seen the commercials that Walmart has been running about how they raised their minimum wage ... what they don't advertise is that at the same time they cut hours , so the net take-home pay has not changed . Also , there are now new hires that will be making more after their 90 day eval than some people that have been there for 2-4 years . And those folks ain't happy about that ... I sleep next to one . Does your wife know about her? No , and if you tell her I'll have to go into hiding ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0iA_rOcn9Y Excellent band and song. -- My desire to be well-informed is currently at odds with my desire to remain sane. --Sipkess Showing your age proudly! |
#18
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Dunkin' CEO: $15 minimum wage is 'outrageous'
On Fri, 7 Aug 2015 15:05:47 -0400, Tom Gardner wrote:
On 8/6/2015 6:58 PM, Larry Jaques wrote: On Wed, 5 Aug 2015 07:48:33 -0500, "Terry Coombs" wrote: Tom Gardner wrote: On 8/4/2015 9:09 PM, Terry Coombs wrote: I know y'all have seen the commercials that Walmart has been running about how they raised their minimum wage ... what they don't advertise is that at the same time they cut hours , so the net take-home pay has not changed . Also , there are now new hires that will be making more after their 90 day eval than some people that have been there for 2-4 years . And those folks ain't happy about that ... I sleep next to one . Does your wife know about her? No , and if you tell her I'll have to go into hiding ... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W0iA_rOcn9Y Excellent band and song. -- My desire to be well-informed is currently at odds with my desire to remain sane. --Sipkess Showing your age proudly! You bet! 4 Best Bands of all times: The Who, Jethro Tull, Led Zeppelin, and Black Sabbath. 4 Best S/F Authors: Heinlein, Asimov, Larry Niven, and Andre Norton, with Louis L'amour in Western novels all by his lonesome, ah reckon. _Period_. (Oops, showing my strongly opinionated self again, too. -- My desire to be well-informed is currently at odds with my desire to remain sane. --Sipkess |
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