Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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On Thu, 30 Jul 2015 08:26:14 -0700 (PDT), Grokman Grokman
wrote:




I didn't know planes had handlebars with tank slap.


What you don't know is the relationship to castering nosewheels,
despite seeing it in print. And you'd rather jabber than learn. Do you
actually believe that foaming at the mouth makes more sense than
figuring out something so simple and obvious?


Good point. I wasn't paying attention to castering, and indeed there could be resonance.
So you proved my initial assertion, you know, that rubbish of steering dampening on bike.
Altho, by sheer geometry, you can see that a castering nosewheel likely has far fewer requirements for dampening than a bike wheel. Esp if they are double nosewheels.

See, Cap'n Ahole/Ahab, you can do it, you can do it, I know you can!! Run over to rec. running.... oh, sorry, too much work... scroll down here to july 22 and poke as many holes in PV's Fundamental Theorem of Max Fat Burning as you can.
Report back. We so value your opinion. And your integrity. And your lifestyle.
You are our collective hero.
If I'm lucky, you might catch a typo or two. You proly shoulda been a proofreader, but al-ass, even that requires some character and honesty.


Ok, since we've now run into two people with the temerity to talk
about the factors involved in front-wheel oscillation, where does
precession come into it? Or doesn't it?

Precession is one of the factors that lead to wheel "tramp" on the
front end of cars with solid front axles. It's a subject that's always
required brain-twisting for me, and I don't do that much of that
anymore, so I'm wondering if you have an answer.

--
Ed Huntress
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I didn't know planes had handlebars with tank slap.

What you don't know is the relationship to castering nosewheels,
despite seeing it in print. And you'd rather jabber than learn. Do you
actually believe that foaming at the mouth makes more sense than
figuring out something so simple and obvious?


Good point. I wasn't paying attention to castering, and indeed there could be resonance.
So you proved my initial assertion, you know, that rubbish of steering dampening on bike.
Altho, by sheer geometry, you can see that a castering nosewheel likely has far fewer requirements for dampening than a bike wheel. Esp if they are double nosewheels.

See, Cap'n Ahole/Ahab, you can do it, you can do it, I know you can!! Run over to rec. running.... oh, sorry, too much work... scroll down here to july 22 and poke as many holes in PV's Fundamental Theorem of Max Fat Burning as you can.
Report back. We so value your opinion. And your integrity. And your lifestyle.
You are our collective hero.
If I'm lucky, you might catch a typo or two. You proly shoulda been a proofreader, but al-ass, even that requires some character and honesty.


Ok, since we've now run into two people with the temerity to talk
about the factors involved in front-wheel oscillation, where does
precession come into it? Or doesn't it?

Precession is one of the factors that lead to wheel "tramp" on the
front end of cars with solid front axles. It's a subject that's always
required brain-twisting for me, and I don't do that much of that
anymore, so I'm wondering if you have an answer.

--
Ed Huntress


Ahm no spert, but I thought precession was mostly for tops, gyroscopes, and planets, around the rotational axis'n'****.
If a car wheel is precessing, mebbe it needs new bearings?? LOL

But there are other examples of precession, I spose.
Like maybe the Obvious Cap'n Ahole's head precessing around a cock? His own cock?
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On Thu, 30 Jul 2015 10:04:45 -0700 (PDT), Grokman Grokman
wrote:





I didn't know planes had handlebars with tank slap.

What you don't know is the relationship to castering nosewheels,
despite seeing it in print. And you'd rather jabber than learn. Do you
actually believe that foaming at the mouth makes more sense than
figuring out something so simple and obvious?

Good point. I wasn't paying attention to castering, and indeed there could be resonance.
So you proved my initial assertion, you know, that rubbish of steering dampening on bike.
Altho, by sheer geometry, you can see that a castering nosewheel likely has far fewer requirements for dampening than a bike wheel. Esp if they are double nosewheels.

See, Cap'n Ahole/Ahab, you can do it, you can do it, I know you can!! Run over to rec. running.... oh, sorry, too much work... scroll down here to july 22 and poke as many holes in PV's Fundamental Theorem of Max Fat Burning as you can.
Report back. We so value your opinion. And your integrity. And your lifestyle.
You are our collective hero.
If I'm lucky, you might catch a typo or two. You proly shoulda been a proofreader, but al-ass, even that requires some character and honesty.


Ok, since we've now run into two people with the temerity to talk
about the factors involved in front-wheel oscillation, where does
precession come into it? Or doesn't it?

Precession is one of the factors that lead to wheel "tramp" on the
front end of cars with solid front axles. It's a subject that's always
required brain-twisting for me, and I don't do that much of that
anymore, so I'm wondering if you have an answer.

--
Ed Huntress


Ahm no spert, but I thought precession was mostly for tops, gyroscopes, and planets, around the rotational axis'n'****.
If a car wheel is precessing, mebbe it needs new bearings?? LOL


It shows up at speed, so it wasn't an issue with really old road cars.
But it became an issue for the old Indy roadsters, and even later, for
Midgets.

I never dug into it; I was just curious.

--
Ed Huntress
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On Thu, 30 Jul 2015 11:36:15 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:


Ok, since we've now run into two people with the temerity to talk
about the factors involved in front-wheel oscillation, where does
precession come into it? Or doesn't it?


I don't see how. On bikes the culprits tend to be loose steering
heads, unbalanced fork springing or damping, dogtracking, bad tires,
etc. On the model of plane I know had the issue, it was probably
rooted in zero rake, negligible trail, rigid lamb tire, and tiny
contact patch. And set off by poor elevator leverage at slow speed
allowing the nose to smack down. A friction damper cured it so long as
its tune was maintained, which was unreliable in the usually oily
environment. A secondary hydraulic damper was added, but there were a
number of incidents of wheel oscillating violently from stop to stop
followed about 1 second later by the nose wheel making a run for it. I
experienced a minor case of it myself and from then on became
religious about checking both dampers.
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On Thu, 30 Jul 2015 16:06:08 -0700, Captain Obvious
wrote:

On Thu, 30 Jul 2015 11:36:15 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:


Ok, since we've now run into two people with the temerity to talk
about the factors involved in front-wheel oscillation, where does
precession come into it? Or doesn't it?


I don't see how. On bikes the culprits tend to be loose steering
heads, unbalanced fork springing or damping, dogtracking, bad tires,
etc. On the model of plane I know had the issue, it was probably
rooted in zero rake, negligible trail, rigid lamb tire, and tiny
contact patch.


That sounds a lot like my old BSA Victor. g No caster to speak of.
Let go, and crash.

Those are not good memories.

And set off by poor elevator leverage at slow speed
allowing the nose to smack down. A friction damper cured it so long as
its tune was maintained, which was unreliable in the usually oily
environment. A secondary hydraulic damper was added, but there were a
number of incidents of wheel oscillating violently from stop to stop
followed about 1 second later by the nose wheel making a run for it. I
experienced a minor case of it myself and from then on became
religious about checking both dampers.


Ok, precession is magic, anyway.

--
Ed Huntress


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On Tue, 28 Jul 2015 15:16:09 -0700 (PDT), Grokman Grokman
wrote:

On Tuesday, July 28, 2015 at 2:13:18 PM UTC-4, Harold McKinney wrote:
"Though I tried a fast rep of 25 pull ups [chortle] and started getting
some chest pressure at 20 [chortle], yesterday. I cant do more than
about 5 one handed pull ups anymore..sigh..old age is creeping up."

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!ms...o/rOC-Y63ENh8J

A scant three years later:
https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...22097241260450


gummer has never done even a single one-handed pullup, of course.
gummer has never been able to do 25 pullups. At age 53, 210 lb, gummer
couldn't do *one* two-handed pullup.


Awwww, Gummer, Moi is proly yer biggest fan here. Only fan?? LOL
But goddamm, 1-handed pullups?? Those are hard to find even on youtube! You need gymnastic level strength/wt ratios to pull these off. The guys that can do these are sinewy bean poles. Frank Medrano might be one who can.


I graduated from highschool in 71' at 6'3" and change and 195 lbs. Id
spent the previous 12 yrs doing both downhill and x-country skying
during the winter months, archery competion and canoe racing during
the summer months. My arms were IRRC 17" in diameter. In fact..they
were about as big or bigger than my neck. Helping a couple log cutters
didnt hurt much either.
I had pretty good upper body strength..shrug..not much for legs and
thighs..but chest, shoulders and biceps...shrug. I wasnt big and
beefy like the body builder types..but when I grabbed ahold of
something..it generally didnt get away. I could....get 15 decent one
arm pullups..then start to stagger on the last 3-5. Made a couple
dollars a time or two in bars and such places doing one handed
pullups. Bout the time I left home..I started beating my Dad doing
one handed pullups. We used the bathroom door with a wide molding
around one side..had about 1" to latch onto. He was/probably still is
a stout little *******. Bout 5'9", about 160ish. Saw him pick up a
Jeep engine out of the back of a pickup, carry it over his shoulder
and drop carry it over to the crane to put it into the jeep. Ill will
never forget that. Bout did him in..but he did it. That engine
weighed a fair amount more than he did..so I tried to do better.
Dad a couple months ago at 84 yrs of age

https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...55705320630338


I knew one guy, built like an gorilla that could do 30 without
breaking much of a sweat. Black guy, about 6', 250. Take a steel
helmet in one hand and treat it like the basketball players one
handing a basketball. Steel helmets weigh about 3 lbs.
Basketball..about 22 oz or so IRRC. Zero flex to get a grip on as
well. He grew up on a farm, handling hay bails....thousands and
thousands of hay bales. Probably the strongest guy "off the line" Ive
ever met. Not real fast..but..strong.

A year or so ago I could manage 1 or two barely-controllable negative reps one-handed, at 6', 180 lbs.
So unpleasant to do, haven't done them since, sure I'd have to practice like crazy to do them again. Easy to tear a bicep doing these, proly not advisable to even try anymore, esp with age.


I mostly gave em up after the second back surgery in 89. I had my
left arm crushed in 76..so couldnt do but about half of what I could
with my right. Took me 3 yrs to be able to pull my standard 70lb bow.
Still can do it..but dropped the weight down to 60lbs to save on some
of the tears/dings/old joints.

This is what I looked like in 78 or so. Not a "bull of the woods" by
any means. I think I was around 180 or so. Got out of the miltary at
167ish in 74.
https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...81326819692466

This will blow your mind:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCOah6uN5ro
Funny, these guys didn't look particularly cut up/developed, but wow...
The last guy, even tho he topped the list, is doing some Crossfit kipping bull****, which proly gave him an extra 5 reps or so. Still, all enormously impressive, these guys disguise the true difficulty of this move.

Keep in mind, this is as much shoulder/lats as it is bicep, maybe more. You can prove this by testing your max curl with weights, proly manage half your bodyweight, the rest comes from lats/shoulders. This is proly where these guys are very strong.


Ayup, some pretty well setup kids.

Gunner, old, slow and about 215lb these days.
https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...16893109196866
https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...64097474312370

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On Tue, 28 Jul 2015 18:18:41 -0700 (PDT), Grokman Grokman
wrote:


On Tuesday, July 28, 2015 at 2:13:18 PM UTC-4, Harold McKinney wrote:
"Though I tried a fast rep of 25 pull ups [chortle] and started getting
some chest pressure at 20 [chortle], yesterday. I cant do more than
about 5 one handed pull ups anymore..sigh..old age is creeping up."

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!ms...o/rOC-Y63ENh8J

A scant three years later:
https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...22097241260450


gummer has never done even a single one-handed pullup, of course.
gummer has never been able to do 25 pullups. At age 53, 210 lb, gummer
couldn't do *one* two-handed pullup.

Awwww, Gummer, Moi is proly yer biggest fan here. Only fan?? LOL
But goddamm, 1-handed pullups?? Those are hard to find even on youtube! You need gymnastic
level strength/wt ratios to pull these off. The guys that can do these are sinewy bean poles.
Frank Medrano might be one who can.

A year or so ago I could manage 1 or two barely-controllable negative reps one-handed, at 6', 180 lbs.
So unpleasant to do, haven't done them since, sure I'd have to practice like crazy to do them again
. Easy to tear a bicep doing these, proly not advisable to even try anymore, esp with age.

This will blow your mind:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCOah6uN5ro
Funny, these guys didn't look particularly cut up/developed, but wow...
The last guy, even tho he topped the list, is doing some Crossfit kipping bull****, which proly gave him
an extra 5 reps or so. Still, all enormously impressive, these guys disguise the true difficulty of this move.

Keep in mind, this is as much shoulder/lats as it is bicep, maybe more. You can prove this by testing your max
curl with weights, proly manage half your bodyweight, the rest comes from lats/shoulders. This is proly where
these guys are very strong.

How many of those guys insist they've ridden a motorcycle at 264 mph,
and claim to have driven more than 900 miles every day for 30 years?


10,000,000 miles. gummer is close to 62. Let's say that in keeping
with all of his other extravagant lies, gummer began driving at age 12,
so 50 years of driving - too much time, given that gummer told his ten
million lie a few years ago and he didn't start driving as 12. Anyway,
that's 200,000 per year, every year. 20K-25K per year is what someone
with an exceptionally long commute might drive, or perhaps someone who
drives a large sales territory.

gummer lives in Taft and says he used to do a lot of work in Long Beach,
which is 142 miles distant. If gummer had made the round trip *twice*
per day every day of the year for the last 42 years (since age 20), that
would still amount only to 8.7 million miles.

These aren't tall tales gummer is telling. It's an unbroken string of
pathological lying.


Harold, no offense, but get a life. Don't be a dicklessKidding.



Actually..."Harold" is correct. I gave an off the cuff statement that
was on being shown to being incorrect..I fully admitted it to being
incorrect. And revised it down to about 3 million as best as I can
recall. I drove truck for a few years, did the service man thingy for
about 30, took weekend motorcycle rides to places like Texas from
California and back (3 day weekends) and whatnot. Up until 2 yrs
ago..I was averaging about 65k miles a year just for work. Which is
why I have trucks littering the back yard with 440,000 miles or more
on them. Id buy em with around 90-99k on the clock..run em until the
engine went, stick another engine in them..run em some more...another
engine..then retire em. And then pick up another truck..and off we go
again. When the bottom fell out of the economy here in California...I
didnt drive as many miles on the job..but had more time to go visit
parks and lakes and nearby states and friends.

Being a traveling service tech in some industries..means you dont just
drive down the block..but into the next state.....and out here in the
West..they aint all that small..... make a service call to Ryobi in
Phoenix from Bakersfield..about 500 miles one way. Out one day..make
the service call, catch some zs in the parking lot, fuel up, check the
oil and turn right around and head back. Be gone for about 24 hours
max. Leave at 10pm, hit the job at 8am, be back home at 10pm, and
thats just piddling around, dragging your feed. 1000 miles in less
than 24 hrs, plus a couple hour service call. No biggie. Hell..I did
300 miles today and visited 4 clients, and 5 second hand stores. And a
boat shop in Long Beach. Started off at 7am in Costa Mesa, was in my
living room at 8pm, sorting out my dirty laundry. Short week, I left
Tuesday morning, did 600 miles, was home tonight. Its a great way to
ease out of the Go! mindset and settle the old bones back into my high
backed swivel office chair. Monday Ill be driving halfway to
Sacramento, meeting a friend and dropping off some tools, then turn
around and come home..then the next morning..loading up and heading
for San Diego...shrug

It aint no big thang...but for someone stuck in Section 8
housing..might seem "impossible!"

Try it for 30 yrs..its not impossible..just a ****ing pain in the ass.

Gunner
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On 8/1/2015 2:03 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jul 2015 15:16:09 -0700 (PDT), Grokman Grokman
wrote:

On Tuesday, July 28, 2015 at 2:13:18 PM UTC-4, Harold McKinney wrote:
"Though I tried a fast rep of 25 pull ups [chortle] and started getting
some chest pressure at 20 [chortle], yesterday. I cant do more than
about 5 one handed pull ups anymore..sigh..old age is creeping up."

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!ms...o/rOC-Y63ENh8J

A scant three years later:
https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...22097241260450


gummer has never done even a single one-handed pullup, of course.
gummer has never been able to do 25 pullups. At age 53, 210 lb, gummer
couldn't do *one* two-handed pullup.


Awwww, Gummer, Moi is proly yer biggest fan here. Only fan?? LOL
But goddamm, 1-handed pullups?? Those are hard to find even on youtube! You need gymnastic level strength/wt ratios to pull these off. The guys that can do these are sinewy bean poles. Frank Medrano might be one who can.


I graduated from highschool in 71' at 6'3" and change and 195 lbs. Id
spent the previous 12 yrs doing both downhill and x-country skying
during the winter months, archery competion and canoe racing during
the summer months. My arms were IRRC 17" in diameter. In fact..they
were about as big or bigger than my neck. Helping a couple log cutters
didnt hurt much either.


This is not the picture of someone with that build, you lying fat **** punk:
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...pe =3&theater

Oh, and about that claim that you're "not white..."


I had pretty good upper body strength..shrug..not much for legs and
thighs..but chest, shoulders and biceps...shrug. I wasnt big and
beefy like the body builder types..but when I grabbed ahold of
something..it generally didnt get away. I could....get 15 decent one
arm pullups..then start to stagger on the last 3-5.


Bull****, gummer. Look at those videos of guys doing one-handed
pullups. They can do about *eight* before dropping off, resting a
moment and restarting.

You never did any.

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Looking Good there Gunner - I graduated in 65. 6'1" 125 skinny rail.

Martin


On 8/1/2015 4:03 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jul 2015 15:16:09 -0700 (PDT), Grokman Grokman
wrote:

On Tuesday, July 28, 2015 at 2:13:18 PM UTC-4, Harold McKinney wrote:
"Though I tried a fast rep of 25 pull ups [chortle] and started getting
some chest pressure at 20 [chortle], yesterday. I cant do more than
about 5 one handed pull ups anymore..sigh..old age is creeping up."

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!ms...o/rOC-Y63ENh8J

A scant three years later:
https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...22097241260450


gummer has never done even a single one-handed pullup, of course.
gummer has never been able to do 25 pullups. At age 53, 210 lb, gummer
couldn't do *one* two-handed pullup.


Awwww, Gummer, Moi is proly yer biggest fan here. Only fan?? LOL
But goddamm, 1-handed pullups?? Those are hard to find even on youtube! You need gymnastic level strength/wt ratios to pull these off. The guys that can do these are sinewy bean poles. Frank Medrano might be one who can.


I graduated from highschool in 71' at 6'3" and change and 195 lbs. Id
spent the previous 12 yrs doing both downhill and x-country skying
during the winter months, archery competion and canoe racing during
the summer months. My arms were IRRC 17" in diameter. In fact..they
were about as big or bigger than my neck. Helping a couple log cutters
didnt hurt much either.
I had pretty good upper body strength..shrug..not much for legs and
thighs..but chest, shoulders and biceps...shrug. I wasnt big and
beefy like the body builder types..but when I grabbed ahold of
something..it generally didnt get away. I could....get 15 decent one
arm pullups..then start to stagger on the last 3-5. Made a couple
dollars a time or two in bars and such places doing one handed
pullups. Bout the time I left home..I started beating my Dad doing
one handed pullups. We used the bathroom door with a wide molding
around one side..had about 1" to latch onto. He was/probably still is
a stout little *******. Bout 5'9", about 160ish. Saw him pick up a
Jeep engine out of the back of a pickup, carry it over his shoulder
and drop carry it over to the crane to put it into the jeep. Ill will
never forget that. Bout did him in..but he did it. That engine
weighed a fair amount more than he did..so I tried to do better.
Dad a couple months ago at 84 yrs of age

https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...55705320630338


I knew one guy, built like an gorilla that could do 30 without
breaking much of a sweat. Black guy, about 6', 250. Take a steel
helmet in one hand and treat it like the basketball players one
handing a basketball. Steel helmets weigh about 3 lbs.
Basketball..about 22 oz or so IRRC. Zero flex to get a grip on as
well. He grew up on a farm, handling hay bails....thousands and
thousands of hay bales. Probably the strongest guy "off the line" Ive
ever met. Not real fast..but..strong.

A year or so ago I could manage 1 or two barely-controllable negative reps one-handed, at 6', 180 lbs.
So unpleasant to do, haven't done them since, sure I'd have to practice like crazy to do them again. Easy to tear a bicep doing these, proly not advisable to even try anymore, esp with age.


I mostly gave em up after the second back surgery in 89. I had my
left arm crushed in 76..so couldnt do but about half of what I could
with my right. Took me 3 yrs to be able to pull my standard 70lb bow.
Still can do it..but dropped the weight down to 60lbs to save on some
of the tears/dings/old joints.

This is what I looked like in 78 or so. Not a "bull of the woods" by
any means. I think I was around 180 or so. Got out of the miltary at
167ish in 74.
https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...81326819692466

This will blow your mind:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wCOah6uN5ro
Funny, these guys didn't look particularly cut up/developed, but wow...
The last guy, even tho he topped the list, is doing some Crossfit kipping bull****, which proly gave him an extra 5 reps or so. Still, all enormously impressive, these guys disguise the true difficulty of this move.

Keep in mind, this is as much shoulder/lats as it is bicep, maybe more. You can prove this by testing your max curl with weights, proly manage half your bodyweight, the rest comes from lats/shoulders. This is proly where these guys are very strong.


Ayup, some pretty well setup kids.

Gunner, old, slow and about 215lb these days.
https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...16893109196866
https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...64097474312370

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On 8/1/2015 2:03 AM, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Tue, 28 Jul 2015 15:16:09 -0700 (PDT), Grokman Grokman
wrote:

On Tuesday, July 28, 2015 at 2:13:18 PM UTC-4, Harold McKinney wrote:
"Though I tried a fast rep of 25 pull ups [chortle] and started getting
some chest pressure at 20 [chortle], yesterday. I cant do more than
about 5 one handed pull ups anymore..sigh..old age is creeping up."

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!ms...o/rOC-Y63ENh8J

A scant three years later:
https://picasaweb.google.com/1040422...22097241260450


gummer has never done even a single one-handed pullup, of course.
gummer has never been able to do 25 pullups. At age 53, 210 lb, gummer
couldn't do *one* two-handed pullup.


Awwww, Gummer, Moi is proly yer biggest fan here. Only fan?? LOL
But goddamm, 1-handed pullups?? Those are hard to find even on youtube! You need gymnastic level strength/wt ratios to pull these off. The guys that can do these are sinewy bean poles. Frank Medrano might be one who can.


I graduated from highschool in 71' at 6'3" and change and 195 lbs. Id
spent the previous 12 yrs doing both downhill and x-country skying
during the winter months, archery competion and canoe racing during
the summer months. My arms were IRRC 17" in diameter. In fact..they
were about as big or bigger than my neck. Helping a couple log cutters
didnt hurt much either.
I had pretty good upper body strength..shrug..not much for legs and
thighs..but chest, shoulders and biceps...shrug. I wasnt big and
beefy like the body builder types..but when I grabbed ahold of
something..it generally didnt get away. I could....get 15 decent one
arm pullups


Bull****. You've never done a single one-handed pull-up.


I knew one guy, built like an gorilla that could do 30 without
breaking much of a sweat.


No, you didn't. HERE is who does one-handed pull-ups:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTOVJhXU5Q0

It's someone who is *young* - not 53 ****ing years of age and about to
have cardiac bypass surgery - and weighs 40-50 pounds less than you did
when you lied and said in 2005 that you could do five.

You've never done so much as one.


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Default One-handed pullups

On 2016-10-04, james g. keegan jr. wrote:
No, you didn't. HERE is who does one-handed pull-ups:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wTOVJhXU5Q0


That's me on the video!
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