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Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work. |
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#41
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Large anvils
On 2015-07-27, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 18:37:59 -0500, Ignoramus22688 wrote: On 2015-07-27, Gunner Asch wrote: Ayup..they do the same thing here in the Central Valley. Aluminum irrigation pipe too... thousands of miles of it. Its been going on since the 70s. Mercury used to be commonly found in oilfield gauges..often times quarts of it. I have some good amount of that ****. Save a couple of ounces. If you ever acquire a target pistol with a muzzle brake, you'll need it to get the lead out of the brake from time to time. I have four ounces left, which will last a lifetime of shooting. While I have some good amount of mercury, some on free form and some inside secure devices, I am very reluctant to use it for anything. I do have some experience with it and it has an almost supernatural ability to spill and get lost. i |
#42
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Large anvils
On 2015-07-28, Mike Spencer wrote:
Ignoramus22688 writes: Here in Chicago, "economically disadvantaged inner city residents" steal such things by dragging them behind their cars and pickups, all the way to scrap yards. I am not kidding. At the ABABA conference in 1990 I talked to a couple of guys who were squatting somewhere on the Lower East Side of Manhattan and doing blacksmithing in a vacant lot. They lugged everything inside when they stopped work except their anvil. That they had welded firmly to a big chunk of steel and the chunk was welded to a partially buried I beam. They'd been working for months and nobody had managed to steal the anvil. Anyone with brains and equipment, sufficient to steal such a well secured anvil, would be able to do better things for a living than stealing small metal items. i |
#43
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Large anvils
On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 21:48:41 -0500, Ignoramus22688
wrote: On 2015-07-27, Ed Huntress wrote: On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 18:37:59 -0500, Ignoramus22688 wrote: On 2015-07-27, Gunner Asch wrote: Ayup..they do the same thing here in the Central Valley. Aluminum irrigation pipe too... thousands of miles of it. Its been going on since the 70s. Mercury used to be commonly found in oilfield gauges..often times quarts of it. I have some good amount of that ****. Save a couple of ounces. If you ever acquire a target pistol with a muzzle brake, you'll need it to get the lead out of the brake from time to time. I have four ounces left, which will last a lifetime of shooting. While I have some good amount of mercury, some on free form and some inside secure devices, I am very reluctant to use it for anything. I do have some experience with it and it has an almost supernatural ability to spill and get lost. It will splash and scatter off of any hard surface. I make a pocket out of an old towel and lay Saran Wrap on top of the towel when I'm cleaning lead out of my Hi-Standard pistol (which I haven't done for years, but I used to do it after every brick of .22s.) That kept it under control. Then I pour from the plastic into a throw-away cup, and from there into my medicine bottle of used mercury. You can keep re-using it many times before you either restore it (not worh the trouble, IMO) or get rid of it at your local HAZMAT collection site. -- Ed Huntress i |
#44
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Large anvils
On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 11:28:24 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote: On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 09:16:52 -0500, Ignoramus22688 wrote: On 2015-07-25, Gunner Asch wrote: On 25 Jul 2015 00:35:39 -0300, Mike Spencer wrote: Ignoramus12512 writes: You can easily sell good anvils (not cast iron and not ruined) for $3 per lb, they sell like hotcakes. Check ebay. Yeah, just so. But it depends on who's selling. The last one I bought, looks like a Peter Wright (but probably isn't), I got for half that 3 or 4 years ago. I got my Hay Budden for a handshake and an afternoon of chat. I think its about 350lbs...35" heal to tip You have a golden tongue... i Thats what my wife tells her friends....(VBG) Then stop licking the brass plated lamps, sir. -- My desire to be well-informed is currently at odds with my desire to remain sane. --Sipkess |
#45
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Large anvils
On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 09:17:10 -0500, Ignoramus22688
wrote: On 2015-07-25, Gunner Asch wrote: On Sat, 25 Jul 2015 05:29:17 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote: On Sat, 25 Jul 2015 03:29:34 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote: On 25 Jul 2015 00:35:39 -0300, Mike Spencer wrote: Ignoramus12512 writes: You can easily sell good anvils (not cast iron and not ruined) for $3 per lb, they sell like hotcakes. Check ebay. Yeah, just so. But it depends on who's selling. The last one I bought, looks like a Peter Wright (but probably isn't), I got for half that 3 or 4 years ago. I got my Hay Budden for a handshake and an afternoon of chat. Very Iggylike, sir. Kudos. I think its about 350lbs...35" heal to tip That will be a tough one to get in the back of my truck. bseg That one will be used as my tombstone. Hopefully somewhere in the 22nd century. To be stolen next Saturday night Welded to an 8"x8' I-beam and his coffin? I doubt it. -- My desire to be well-informed is currently at odds with my desire to remain sane. --Sipkess |
#46
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Large anvils
On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 21:48:41 -0500, Ignoramus22688
wrote: On 2015-07-27, Ed Huntress wrote: On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 18:37:59 -0500, Ignoramus22688 wrote: On 2015-07-27, Gunner Asch wrote: Ayup..they do the same thing here in the Central Valley. Aluminum irrigation pipe too... thousands of miles of it. Its been going on since the 70s. Mercury used to be commonly found in oilfield gauges..often times quarts of it. I have some good amount of that ****. Save a couple of ounces. If you ever acquire a target pistol with a muzzle brake, you'll need it to get the lead out of the brake from time to time. I have four ounces left, which will last a lifetime of shooting. While I have some good amount of mercury, some on free form and some inside secure devices, I am very reluctant to use it for anything. I do have some experience with it and it has an almost supernatural ability to spill and get lost. It also carries an =extremely= large fine if you get nailed for a spill, I hear. Platoons of hazmat critters and EPA paperwork up the ying yang. -- My desire to be well-informed is currently at odds with my desire to remain sane. --Sipkess |
#47
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Large anvils
On 2015-07-28, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 21:48:41 -0500, Ignoramus22688 wrote: On 2015-07-27, Ed Huntress wrote: On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 18:37:59 -0500, Ignoramus22688 wrote: On 2015-07-27, Gunner Asch wrote: Ayup..they do the same thing here in the Central Valley. Aluminum irrigation pipe too... thousands of miles of it. Its been going on since the 70s. Mercury used to be commonly found in oilfield gauges..often times quarts of it. I have some good amount of that ****. Save a couple of ounces. If you ever acquire a target pistol with a muzzle brake, you'll need it to get the lead out of the brake from time to time. I have four ounces left, which will last a lifetime of shooting. While I have some good amount of mercury, some on free form and some inside secure devices, I am very reluctant to use it for anything. I do have some experience with it and it has an almost supernatural ability to spill and get lost. It also carries an =extremely= large fine if you get nailed for a spill, I hear. Platoons of hazmat critters and EPA paperwork up the ying yang. It depends on the amount of spill and whether anyone knows. i |
#48
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Mercury cleanup (was Large anvils)
Joe Gwinn fired this volley in
: Flowers of sulfur may be purchased from agricultural supply stores. Plain 'dusting sulfur' is far less expensive, and still about 95% elemental sulfur. However, that method is a sort of "folk remedy" that doesn't work as well as touted. The problem is that elemental mercury and elemental sulfur don't react very rapidly at STP. It takes some method of adding energy (heat, in this case) by processes like high-shear mixing or ball milling to accomplish the task effectively. And even with a "tuned" ball mill (a subject pretty dear to my heart!), it takes about 90 minutes of vigorous milling to fully react all the mercury into black cinnibar. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=web&cd=1&ved= 0CB8QFjAAahUKEwieiuXzk_7GAhWCJj4KHYudCmQ&url=http% 3A%2F% 2Fdigital.csic.es%2Fbitstream%2F10261%2F7692%2F1%2 FDISPOSAL% 2520ELEMENTALHg.pdf&ei=qKG3VZ6WLoLN- AGLu6qgBg&usg=AFQjCNEbqz36y_ZmrzwHgSOb55Xc7I1CQQ&s ig2=AjPUqJ- MVVZEqCZ8XWqHxA&cad=rja Sorry for the long link. This is a pdf explaining processes used to stabilize mercury for recovery or disposal. Lloyd |
#49
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Mercury cleanup (was Large anvils)
Ignoramus15604 fired this volley in
: I believe, strongly, that mercury is demonized way beyond its actual harmfulness, due to allowable concentrations becoming ever more stringent. You can actually count the people damaged by merciry, by hand. It was once a much larger problem. So-called "mad hatter's disease" was caused by continual exposure to mercury compounds. As Ed suggested in another reply, it has a nasty tendency to accumulate at the top of the food chain. It CAN be chelated and removed from a living body, but it's a difficult and lengthy process. Lloyd |
#50
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Mercury cleanup (was Large anvils)
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message . 4.170... Joe Gwinn fired this volley in : Flowers of sulfur may be purchased from agricultural supply stores. Plain 'dusting sulfur' is far less expensive, and still about 95% elemental sulfur. However, that method is a sort of "folk remedy" that doesn't work as well as touted. The problem is that elemental mercury and elemental sulfur don't react very rapidly at STP. It takes some method of adding energy (heat, in this case) by processes like high-shear mixing or ball milling to accomplish the task effectively. And even with a "tuned" ball mill (a subject pretty dear to my heart!), it takes about 90 minutes of vigorous milling to fully react all the mercury into black cinnibar. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=web&cd=1&ved= 0CB8QFjAAahUKEwieiuXzk_7GAhWCJj4KHYudCmQ&url=http% 3A%2F% 2Fdigital.csic.es%2Fbitstream%2F10261%2F7692%2F1%2 FDISPOSAL% 2520ELEMENTALHg.pdf&ei=qKG3VZ6WLoLN- AGLu6qgBg&usg=AFQjCNEbqz36y_ZmrzwHgSOb55Xc7I1CQQ&s ig2=AjPUqJ- MVVZEqCZ8XWqHxA&cad=rja Sorry for the long link. This is a pdf explaining processes used to stabilize mercury for recovery or disposal. Lloyd We student chemists were taught that the sulfur reacts with any exposed metallic surfaces and thus blocks evaporation. It made the room safe to use until the flooring had to be removed for some other reason. -jsw |
#51
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Mercury cleanup (was Large anvils)
On Tue, 28 Jul 2015 10:50:31 -0500, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
.... https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=web&cd=1&ved= 0CB8QFjAAahUKEwieiuXzk_7GAhWCJj4KHYudCmQ&url=http% 3A%2F% 2Fdigital.csic.es%2Fbitstream%2F10261%2F7692%2F1%2 FDISPOSAL% 2520ELEMENTALHg.pdf&ei=qKG3VZ6WLoLN- AGLu6qgBg&usg=AFQjCNEbqz36y_ZmrzwHgSOb55Xc7I1CQQ&s ig2=AjPUqJ- MVVZEqCZ8XWqHxA&cad=rja Sorry for the long link. This is a pdf explaining processes used to stabilize mercury for recovery or disposal. http://digital.csic.es/bitstream/10261/7692/1/DISPOSAL%20ELEMENTALHg.pdf is a shorter version of that long link, obtained by applying the linux command sed -e ' s/^http.*http/http/; s/pdf&.*/pdf/; s/%3A/:/g; s|%2F|/|g; s|%25|%|g' to the longer link. Command wget can be used to get the pdf file: wget http://digital.csic.es/bitstream/102...LEMENTALHg.pdf -- jiw |
#52
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Mercury cleanup (was Large anvils)
"Jim Wilkins" fired this volley in news:mp8c7k$7p3
: We student chemists were taught that the sulfur reacts with any exposed metallic surfaces and thus blocks evaporation. It made the room safe to use until the flooring had to be removed for some other reason. The fallacies in that a 1) Even if the surface of a mercury droplet were "sulfided", the liquid within would still be subject to being broken up again by foot or furniture traffic, and 2) Even noble metals? Really? G The purpose of combining mercury with sulfur is to 'sequester' all of the liquid, rendering the black sulfide. That won't happen without both breaking the mercury up into _truly_ microscopic droplets (surface area affect reaction rate, remember?), and mascerating the mix long enough to cause the reaction to complete. Lloyd |
#53
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Mercury cleanup (was Large anvils)
On 2015-07-28, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ignoramus15604 fired this volley in : I believe, strongly, that mercury is demonized way beyond its actual harmfulness, due to allowable concentrations becoming ever more stringent. You can actually count the people damaged by merciry, by hand. It was once a much larger problem. So-called "mad hatter's disease" was caused by continual exposure to mercury compounds. Right. "Mad hatters" were exposed to concentrations, probably millions of times greater than what you would get from a small mercury spill. As Ed suggested in another reply, it has a nasty tendency to accumulate at the top of the food chain. It CAN be chelated and removed from a living body, but it's a difficult and lengthy process. |
#54
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Mercury cleanup (was Large anvils)
Ignoramus15604 fired this volley in
: Right. "Mad hatters" were exposed to concentrations, probably millions of times greater than what you would get from a small mercury spill. No doubt, Ig. Don't "extrapolate" from my statement. All I said was that it's less of a problem now than it was in the past. My primary point was that flowers of Sulfur is NOT an effective way to contain and mitigate a mercury spill -- unless you're willing to mascerate the mixture many dozens of times with a tight squeegee or broom over a period of weeks! Lloyd |
#55
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Mercury cleanup (was Large anvils)
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 4.170... "Jim Wilkins" fired this volley in news:mp8c7k$7p3 : We student chemists were taught that the sulfur reacts with any exposed metallic surfaces and thus blocks evaporation. It made the room safe to use until the flooring had to be removed for some other reason. The fallacies in that a 1) Even if the surface of a mercury droplet were "sulfided", the liquid within would still be subject to being broken up again by foot or furniture traffic, and 2) Even noble metals? Really? G The purpose of combining mercury with sulfur is to 'sequester' all of the liquid, rendering the black sulfide. That won't happen without both breaking the mercury up into _truly_ microscopic droplets (surface area affect reaction rate, remember?), and mascerating the mix long enough to cause the reaction to complete. Lloyd 1) The metallic liquid mercury within the droplet doesn't evaporate through the sulfide shell and especially the reactive sulfur around it. If the shell breaks the sulfur reforms it. The reaction doesn't have to go to completion to keep the mercury from evaporating. Some uncombined mercury is expected to remain when the floor is removed, and must be dealt with appropriately 2) This thread is about mercury. If you spill liquid gold the hazard to your nose will be from your burning feet. http://epa.gov/mercury/spills/ Sulfur "binds the mercury so that it can be easily removed and suppresses the vapor of any missing mercury." -jsw |
#56
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Mercury cleanup (was Large anvils)
You can count them on the hand of a 'careless butcher'.
Ivan Vegvary |
#57
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Mercury cleanup (was Large anvils)
In article , Jim Wilkins
wrote: "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message . 4.170... Joe Gwinn fired this volley in : Flowers of sulfur may be purchased from agricultural supply stores. Plain 'dusting sulfur' is far less expensive, and still about 95% elemental sulfur. However, that method is a sort of "folk remedy" that doesn't work as well as touted. The problem is that elemental mercury and elemental sulfur don't react very rapidly at STP. It takes some method of adding energy (heat, in this case) by processes like high-shear mixing or ball milling to accomplish the task effectively. And even with a "tuned" ball mill (a subject pretty dear to my heart!), it takes about 90 minutes of vigorous milling to fully react all the mercury into black cinnibar. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=web&cd=1&ved= 0CB8QFjAAahUKEwieiuXzk_7GAhWCJj4KHYudCmQ&url=http% 3A%2F% 2Fdigital.csic.es%2Fbitstream%2F10261%2F7692%2F1%2 FDISPOSAL% 2520ELEMENTALHg.pdf&ei=qKG3VZ6WLoLN- AGLu6qgBg&usg=AFQjCNEbqz36y_ZmrzwHgSOb55Xc7I1CQQ&s ig2=AjPUqJ- MVVZEqCZ8XWqHxA&cad=rja Sorry for the long link. This is a pdf explaining processes used to stabilize mercury for recovery or disposal. Lloyd We student chemists were taught that the sulfur reacts with any exposed metallic surfaces and thus blocks evaporation. It made the room safe to use until the flooring had to be removed for some other reason. Exactly. This was the standard approach, to suppress the vapor. It was not a folk remedy at all. The solution to runaway blobs hiding in odd places was to use a lot of sulfur (which is cheap), enough to ensure that the sulfur got everywhere it needed to. The stuff in the cracks was just left there, mercury and sulfur alike. They probably didn't get rid of what I spilled in High School until they replaced the building, almost 50 years later. If only we hadn't spilled that mercury - we would all have been Einsteins. Joe Gwinn |
#58
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Mercury cleanup (was Large anvils)
On Tue, 28 Jul 2015 22:02:14 -0400, Joe Gwinn
wrote: In article , Jim Wilkins wrote: "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message . 4.170... Joe Gwinn fired this volley in : Flowers of sulfur may be purchased from agricultural supply stores. Plain 'dusting sulfur' is far less expensive, and still about 95% elemental sulfur. However, that method is a sort of "folk remedy" that doesn't work as well as touted. The problem is that elemental mercury and elemental sulfur don't react very rapidly at STP. It takes some method of adding energy (heat, in this case) by processes like high-shear mixing or ball milling to accomplish the task effectively. And even with a "tuned" ball mill (a subject pretty dear to my heart!), it takes about 90 minutes of vigorous milling to fully react all the mercury into black cinnibar. https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=web&cd=1&ved= 0CB8QFjAAahUKEwieiuXzk_7GAhWCJj4KHYudCmQ&url=http% 3A%2F% 2Fdigital.csic.es%2Fbitstream%2F10261%2F7692%2F1%2 FDISPOSAL% 2520ELEMENTALHg.pdf&ei=qKG3VZ6WLoLN- AGLu6qgBg&usg=AFQjCNEbqz36y_ZmrzwHgSOb55Xc7I1CQQ&s ig2=AjPUqJ- MVVZEqCZ8XWqHxA&cad=rja Sorry for the long link. This is a pdf explaining processes used to stabilize mercury for recovery or disposal. Lloyd We student chemists were taught that the sulfur reacts with any exposed metallic surfaces and thus blocks evaporation. It made the room safe to use until the flooring had to be removed for some other reason. Exactly. This was the standard approach, to suppress the vapor. It was not a folk remedy at all. The solution to runaway blobs hiding in odd places was to use a lot of sulfur (which is cheap), enough to ensure that the sulfur got everywhere it needed to. The stuff in the cracks was just left there, mercury and sulfur alike. They probably didn't get rid of what I spilled in High School until they replaced the building, almost 50 years later. If only we hadn't spilled that mercury - we would all have been Einsteins. Joe Gwinn We usta make pennies into dimes until the nearby variety store got wise to us! --- Gerry :-)} London,Canada |
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