Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Default Large anvils

On 2015-07-27, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 18:37:59 -0500, Ignoramus22688
wrote:

On 2015-07-27, Gunner Asch wrote:
Ayup..they do the same thing here in the Central Valley. Aluminum
irrigation pipe too... thousands of miles of it. Its been going on
since the 70s. Mercury used to be commonly found in oilfield
gauges..often times quarts of it.


I have some good amount of that ****.


Save a couple of ounces. If you ever acquire a target pistol with a
muzzle brake, you'll need it to get the lead out of the brake from
time to time.

I have four ounces left, which will last a lifetime of shooting.


While I have some good amount of mercury, some on free form and some
inside secure devices, I am very reluctant to use it for anything. I
do have some experience with it and it has an almost supernatural
ability to spill and get lost.

i
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Default Large anvils

On 2015-07-28, Mike Spencer wrote:

Ignoramus22688 writes:

Here in Chicago, "economically disadvantaged inner city residents"
steal such things by dragging them behind their cars and pickups, all
the way to scrap yards. I am not kidding.


At the ABABA conference in 1990 I talked to a couple of guys who were
squatting somewhere on the Lower East Side of Manhattan and doing
blacksmithing in a vacant lot. They lugged everything inside when they
stopped work except their anvil. That they had welded firmly to a big
chunk of steel and the chunk was welded to a partially buried I beam.
They'd been working for months and nobody had managed to steal the
anvil.


Anyone with brains and equipment, sufficient to steal such a well
secured anvil, would be able to do better things for a living than
stealing small metal items.

i
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Default Large anvils

On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 21:48:41 -0500, Ignoramus22688
wrote:

On 2015-07-27, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 18:37:59 -0500, Ignoramus22688
wrote:

On 2015-07-27, Gunner Asch wrote:
Ayup..they do the same thing here in the Central Valley. Aluminum
irrigation pipe too... thousands of miles of it. Its been going on
since the 70s. Mercury used to be commonly found in oilfield
gauges..often times quarts of it.

I have some good amount of that ****.


Save a couple of ounces. If you ever acquire a target pistol with a
muzzle brake, you'll need it to get the lead out of the brake from
time to time.

I have four ounces left, which will last a lifetime of shooting.


While I have some good amount of mercury, some on free form and some
inside secure devices, I am very reluctant to use it for anything. I
do have some experience with it and it has an almost supernatural
ability to spill and get lost.


It will splash and scatter off of any hard surface. I make a pocket
out of an old towel and lay Saran Wrap on top of the towel when I'm
cleaning lead out of my Hi-Standard pistol (which I haven't done for
years, but I used to do it after every brick of .22s.)

That kept it under control. Then I pour from the plastic into a
throw-away cup, and from there into my medicine bottle of used
mercury. You can keep re-using it many times before you either restore
it (not worh the trouble, IMO) or get rid of it at your local HAZMAT
collection site.

--
Ed Huntress

i

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Default Large anvils

On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 11:28:24 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 09:16:52 -0500, Ignoramus22688
wrote:

On 2015-07-25, Gunner Asch wrote:
On 25 Jul 2015 00:35:39 -0300, Mike Spencer
wrote:


Ignoramus12512 writes:

You can easily sell good anvils (not cast iron and not ruined) for $3
per lb, they sell like hotcakes. Check ebay.

Yeah, just so. But it depends on who's selling. The last one I
bought, looks like a Peter Wright (but probably isn't), I got for half
that 3 or 4 years ago.

I got my Hay Budden for a handshake and an afternoon of chat.

I think its about 350lbs...35" heal to tip


You have a golden tongue...

i


Thats what my wife tells her friends....(VBG)


Then stop licking the brass plated lamps, sir.

--
My desire to be well-informed is currently
at odds with my desire to remain sane. --Sipkess
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Default Large anvils

On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 09:17:10 -0500, Ignoramus22688
wrote:

On 2015-07-25, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Sat, 25 Jul 2015 05:29:17 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 25 Jul 2015 03:29:34 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On 25 Jul 2015 00:35:39 -0300, Mike Spencer
wrote:


Ignoramus12512 writes:

You can easily sell good anvils (not cast iron and not ruined) for $3
per lb, they sell like hotcakes. Check ebay.

Yeah, just so. But it depends on who's selling. The last one I
bought, looks like a Peter Wright (but probably isn't), I got for half
that 3 or 4 years ago.

I got my Hay Budden for a handshake and an afternoon of chat.

Very Iggylike, sir. Kudos.


I think its about 350lbs...35" heal to tip

That will be a tough one to get in the back of my truck. bseg


That one will be used as my tombstone. Hopefully somewhere in the 22nd
century.


To be stolen next Saturday night


Welded to an 8"x8' I-beam and his coffin? I doubt it.

--
My desire to be well-informed is currently
at odds with my desire to remain sane. --Sipkess


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Default Large anvils

On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 21:48:41 -0500, Ignoramus22688
wrote:

On 2015-07-27, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 18:37:59 -0500, Ignoramus22688
wrote:

On 2015-07-27, Gunner Asch wrote:
Ayup..they do the same thing here in the Central Valley. Aluminum
irrigation pipe too... thousands of miles of it. Its been going on
since the 70s. Mercury used to be commonly found in oilfield
gauges..often times quarts of it.

I have some good amount of that ****.


Save a couple of ounces. If you ever acquire a target pistol with a
muzzle brake, you'll need it to get the lead out of the brake from
time to time.

I have four ounces left, which will last a lifetime of shooting.


While I have some good amount of mercury, some on free form and some
inside secure devices, I am very reluctant to use it for anything. I
do have some experience with it and it has an almost supernatural
ability to spill and get lost.


It also carries an =extremely= large fine if you get nailed for a
spill, I hear. Platoons of hazmat critters and EPA paperwork up the
ying yang.

--
My desire to be well-informed is currently
at odds with my desire to remain sane. --Sipkess
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Default Large anvils

On 2015-07-28, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 21:48:41 -0500, Ignoramus22688
wrote:

On 2015-07-27, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 18:37:59 -0500, Ignoramus22688
wrote:

On 2015-07-27, Gunner Asch wrote:
Ayup..they do the same thing here in the Central Valley. Aluminum
irrigation pipe too... thousands of miles of it. Its been going on
since the 70s. Mercury used to be commonly found in oilfield
gauges..often times quarts of it.

I have some good amount of that ****.

Save a couple of ounces. If you ever acquire a target pistol with a
muzzle brake, you'll need it to get the lead out of the brake from
time to time.

I have four ounces left, which will last a lifetime of shooting.


While I have some good amount of mercury, some on free form and some
inside secure devices, I am very reluctant to use it for anything. I
do have some experience with it and it has an almost supernatural
ability to spill and get lost.


It also carries an =extremely= large fine if you get nailed for a
spill, I hear. Platoons of hazmat critters and EPA paperwork up the
ying yang.


It depends on the amount of spill and whether anyone knows.

i
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Default Mercury cleanup (was Large anvils)

Joe Gwinn fired this volley in
:

Flowers of sulfur may be purchased from agricultural supply stores.


Plain 'dusting sulfur' is far less expensive, and still about 95%
elemental sulfur.

However, that method is a sort of "folk remedy" that doesn't work as well
as touted. The problem is that elemental mercury and elemental sulfur
don't react very rapidly at STP. It takes some method of adding energy
(heat, in this case) by processes like high-shear mixing or ball milling
to accomplish the task effectively. And even with a "tuned" ball mill (a
subject pretty dear to my heart!), it takes about 90 minutes of vigorous
milling to fully react all the mercury into black cinnibar.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=web&cd=1&ved=
0CB8QFjAAahUKEwieiuXzk_7GAhWCJj4KHYudCmQ&url=http% 3A%2F%
2Fdigital.csic.es%2Fbitstream%2F10261%2F7692%2F1%2 FDISPOSAL%
2520ELEMENTALHg.pdf&ei=qKG3VZ6WLoLN-
AGLu6qgBg&usg=AFQjCNEbqz36y_ZmrzwHgSOb55Xc7I1CQQ&s ig2=AjPUqJ-
MVVZEqCZ8XWqHxA&cad=rja

Sorry for the long link. This is a pdf explaining processes used to
stabilize mercury for recovery or disposal.

Lloyd
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Default Mercury cleanup (was Large anvils)

Ignoramus15604 fired this volley in
:

I believe, strongly, that mercury is demonized way beyond its actual
harmfulness, due to allowable concentrations becoming ever more
stringent. You can actually count the people damaged by merciry, by
hand.


It was once a much larger problem. So-called "mad hatter's disease" was
caused by continual exposure to mercury compounds.

As Ed suggested in another reply, it has a nasty tendency to accumulate
at the top of the food chain.

It CAN be chelated and removed from a living body, but it's a difficult
and lengthy process.

Lloyd
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Default Mercury cleanup (was Large anvils)


"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 4.170...
Joe Gwinn fired this volley in
:

Flowers of sulfur may be purchased from agricultural supply stores.


Plain 'dusting sulfur' is far less expensive, and still about 95%
elemental sulfur.

However, that method is a sort of "folk remedy" that doesn't work as
well
as touted. The problem is that elemental mercury and elemental
sulfur
don't react very rapidly at STP. It takes some method of adding
energy
(heat, in this case) by processes like high-shear mixing or ball
milling
to accomplish the task effectively. And even with a "tuned" ball
mill (a
subject pretty dear to my heart!), it takes about 90 minutes of
vigorous
milling to fully react all the mercury into black cinnibar.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=web&cd=1&ved=
0CB8QFjAAahUKEwieiuXzk_7GAhWCJj4KHYudCmQ&url=http% 3A%2F%
2Fdigital.csic.es%2Fbitstream%2F10261%2F7692%2F1%2 FDISPOSAL%
2520ELEMENTALHg.pdf&ei=qKG3VZ6WLoLN-
AGLu6qgBg&usg=AFQjCNEbqz36y_ZmrzwHgSOb55Xc7I1CQQ&s ig2=AjPUqJ-
MVVZEqCZ8XWqHxA&cad=rja

Sorry for the long link. This is a pdf explaining processes used to
stabilize mercury for recovery or disposal.

Lloyd


We student chemists were taught that the sulfur reacts with any
exposed metallic surfaces and thus blocks evaporation. It made the
room safe to use until the flooring had to be removed for some other
reason.

-jsw




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Default Mercury cleanup (was Large anvils)

On Tue, 28 Jul 2015 10:50:31 -0500, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
....
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=web&cd=1&ved=
0CB8QFjAAahUKEwieiuXzk_7GAhWCJj4KHYudCmQ&url=http% 3A%2F%
2Fdigital.csic.es%2Fbitstream%2F10261%2F7692%2F1%2 FDISPOSAL%
2520ELEMENTALHg.pdf&ei=qKG3VZ6WLoLN-
AGLu6qgBg&usg=AFQjCNEbqz36y_ZmrzwHgSOb55Xc7I1CQQ&s ig2=AjPUqJ-
MVVZEqCZ8XWqHxA&cad=rja

Sorry for the long link. This is a pdf explaining processes used to
stabilize mercury for recovery or disposal.



http://digital.csic.es/bitstream/10261/7692/1/DISPOSAL%20ELEMENTALHg.pdf

is a shorter version of that long link, obtained by applying the linux command

sed -e ' s/^http.*http/http/; s/pdf&.*/pdf/; s/%3A/:/g; s|%2F|/|g; s|%25|%|g'

to the longer link. Command wget can be used to get the pdf file:

wget http://digital.csic.es/bitstream/102...LEMENTALHg.pdf

--
jiw
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Default Mercury cleanup (was Large anvils)

"Jim Wilkins" fired this volley in news:mp8c7k$7p3
:

We student chemists were taught that the sulfur reacts with any
exposed metallic surfaces and thus blocks evaporation. It made the
room safe to use until the flooring had to be removed for some other
reason.


The fallacies in that a
1) Even if the surface of a mercury droplet were "sulfided", the liquid
within would still be subject to being broken up again by foot or
furniture traffic, and
2) Even noble metals? Really? G


The purpose of combining mercury with sulfur is to 'sequester' all of the
liquid, rendering the black sulfide. That won't happen without both
breaking the mercury up into _truly_ microscopic droplets (surface area
affect reaction rate, remember?), and mascerating the mix long enough to
cause the reaction to complete.

Lloyd
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Default Mercury cleanup (was Large anvils)

On 2015-07-28, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ignoramus15604 fired this volley in
:

I believe, strongly, that mercury is demonized way beyond its actual
harmfulness, due to allowable concentrations becoming ever more
stringent. You can actually count the people damaged by merciry, by
hand.


It was once a much larger problem. So-called "mad hatter's disease" was
caused by continual exposure to mercury compounds.


Right. "Mad hatters" were exposed to concentrations, probably millions
of times greater than what you would get from a small mercury spill.

As Ed suggested in another reply, it has a nasty tendency to accumulate
at the top of the food chain.

It CAN be chelated and removed from a living body, but it's a difficult
and lengthy process.

  #54   Report Post  
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Default Mercury cleanup (was Large anvils)

Ignoramus15604 fired this volley in
:

Right. "Mad hatters" were exposed to concentrations, probably millions
of times greater than what you would get from a small mercury spill.


No doubt, Ig. Don't "extrapolate" from my statement. All I said was that
it's less of a problem now than it was in the past.

My primary point was that flowers of Sulfur is NOT an effective way to
contain and mitigate a mercury spill -- unless you're willing to mascerate
the mixture many dozens of times with a tight squeegee or broom over a
period of weeks!

Lloyd
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Default Mercury cleanup (was Large anvils)

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 4.170...
"Jim Wilkins" fired this volley in
news:mp8c7k$7p3
:

We student chemists were taught that the sulfur reacts with any
exposed metallic surfaces and thus blocks evaporation. It made the
room safe to use until the flooring had to be removed for some
other
reason.


The fallacies in that a
1) Even if the surface of a mercury droplet were "sulfided", the
liquid
within would still be subject to being broken up again by foot or
furniture traffic, and
2) Even noble metals? Really? G


The purpose of combining mercury with sulfur is to 'sequester' all
of the
liquid, rendering the black sulfide. That won't happen without both
breaking the mercury up into _truly_ microscopic droplets (surface
area
affect reaction rate, remember?), and mascerating the mix long
enough to
cause the reaction to complete.

Lloyd


1) The metallic liquid mercury within the droplet doesn't evaporate
through the sulfide shell and especially the reactive sulfur around
it. If the shell breaks the sulfur reforms it.

The reaction doesn't have to go to completion to keep the mercury from
evaporating. Some uncombined mercury is expected to remain when the
floor is removed, and must be dealt with appropriately

2) This thread is about mercury. If you spill liquid gold the hazard
to your nose will be from your burning feet.

http://epa.gov/mercury/spills/
Sulfur "binds the mercury so that it can be easily removed and
suppresses the vapor of any missing mercury."

-jsw




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Default Mercury cleanup (was Large anvils)

You can count them on the hand of a 'careless butcher'.
Ivan Vegvary
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Default Mercury cleanup (was Large anvils)

In article , Jim Wilkins
wrote:

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 4.170...
Joe Gwinn fired this volley in
:

Flowers of sulfur may be purchased from agricultural supply stores.


Plain 'dusting sulfur' is far less expensive, and still about 95%
elemental sulfur.

However, that method is a sort of "folk remedy" that doesn't work as
well
as touted. The problem is that elemental mercury and elemental
sulfur
don't react very rapidly at STP. It takes some method of adding
energy
(heat, in this case) by processes like high-shear mixing or ball
milling
to accomplish the task effectively. And even with a "tuned" ball
mill (a
subject pretty dear to my heart!), it takes about 90 minutes of
vigorous
milling to fully react all the mercury into black cinnibar.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=web&cd=1&ved=
0CB8QFjAAahUKEwieiuXzk_7GAhWCJj4KHYudCmQ&url=http% 3A%2F%
2Fdigital.csic.es%2Fbitstream%2F10261%2F7692%2F1%2 FDISPOSAL%
2520ELEMENTALHg.pdf&ei=qKG3VZ6WLoLN-
AGLu6qgBg&usg=AFQjCNEbqz36y_ZmrzwHgSOb55Xc7I1CQQ&s ig2=AjPUqJ-
MVVZEqCZ8XWqHxA&cad=rja

Sorry for the long link. This is a pdf explaining processes used to
stabilize mercury for recovery or disposal.

Lloyd


We student chemists were taught that the sulfur reacts with any
exposed metallic surfaces and thus blocks evaporation. It made the
room safe to use until the flooring had to be removed for some other
reason.


Exactly. This was the standard approach, to suppress the vapor. It
was not a folk remedy at all.

The solution to runaway blobs hiding in odd places was to use a lot of
sulfur (which is cheap), enough to ensure that the sulfur got
everywhere it needed to. The stuff in the cracks was just left there,
mercury and sulfur alike.

They probably didn't get rid of what I spilled in High School until
they replaced the building, almost 50 years later.

If only we hadn't spilled that mercury - we would all have been
Einsteins.

Joe Gwinn
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Default Mercury cleanup (was Large anvils)

On Tue, 28 Jul 2015 22:02:14 -0400, Joe Gwinn
wrote:

In article , Jim Wilkins
wrote:

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 4.170...
Joe Gwinn fired this volley in
:

Flowers of sulfur may be purchased from agricultural supply stores.


Plain 'dusting sulfur' is far less expensive, and still about 95%
elemental sulfur.

However, that method is a sort of "folk remedy" that doesn't work as
well
as touted. The problem is that elemental mercury and elemental
sulfur
don't react very rapidly at STP. It takes some method of adding
energy
(heat, in this case) by processes like high-shear mixing or ball
milling
to accomplish the task effectively. And even with a "tuned" ball
mill (a
subject pretty dear to my heart!), it takes about 90 minutes of
vigorous
milling to fully react all the mercury into black cinnibar.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=...=web&cd=1&ved=
0CB8QFjAAahUKEwieiuXzk_7GAhWCJj4KHYudCmQ&url=http% 3A%2F%
2Fdigital.csic.es%2Fbitstream%2F10261%2F7692%2F1%2 FDISPOSAL%
2520ELEMENTALHg.pdf&ei=qKG3VZ6WLoLN-
AGLu6qgBg&usg=AFQjCNEbqz36y_ZmrzwHgSOb55Xc7I1CQQ&s ig2=AjPUqJ-
MVVZEqCZ8XWqHxA&cad=rja

Sorry for the long link. This is a pdf explaining processes used to
stabilize mercury for recovery or disposal.

Lloyd


We student chemists were taught that the sulfur reacts with any
exposed metallic surfaces and thus blocks evaporation. It made the
room safe to use until the flooring had to be removed for some other
reason.


Exactly. This was the standard approach, to suppress the vapor. It
was not a folk remedy at all.

The solution to runaway blobs hiding in odd places was to use a lot of
sulfur (which is cheap), enough to ensure that the sulfur got
everywhere it needed to. The stuff in the cracks was just left there,
mercury and sulfur alike.

They probably didn't get rid of what I spilled in High School until
they replaced the building, almost 50 years later.

If only we hadn't spilled that mercury - we would all have been
Einsteins.

Joe Gwinn

We usta make pennies into dimes until the nearby variety store got
wise to us!
---

Gerry :-)}
London,Canada
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