Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

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Default Turning brake drums

Any tips on turning brake drums on a toolroom lathe ?

Gonna do a brake job on my car over the week end and
am thinking about turning the drums myself.

TIA.

Best Regards
Tom.


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Default Turning brake drums

On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 03:55:15 -0700, "Howard Beal"
wrote:

Any tips on turning brake drums on a toolroom lathe ?

getting them mounted true is the only challenge. Surprised a toolroom
lathe would be large enough to even consider it.
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Default Turning brake drums

"Howard Beal" wrote in message
...
Any tips on turning brake drums on a toolroom lathe ?

Gonna do a brake job on my car over the week end and
am thinking about turning the drums myself.

TIA.

Best Regards
Tom.


http://www.wewilliams.net/docs/1936%...0No %204A.pdf

-jsw


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Default Turning brake drums

On Thursday, July 23, 2015 at 5:54:55 AM UTC-5, Howard Beal wrote:
Any tips on turning brake drums on a toolroom lathe ?

Gonna do a brake job on my car over the week end and
am thinking about turning the drums myself.

TIA.

Best Regards
Tom.


That old South Bend document covers about everything. You will probably need to make some cones or adapters to mount it.
You do need to find something to add mass to dampen vibrations, or it will ring like a bell the whole time, and the cut will be wavy. Once it starts getting wavy it is almost impossible to correct.
You need a heavy boring bar. The Ammco toolholder is 1.125 hex. Ideally it would be mounted directly to the cross slide after removing the compound.
Drums sometimes develop hard spots from localized heating. These can be very hard to cut out, as the bit skips over them. The solution used to be to use a grinder attachment. Modern carbide may be sufficient, I don't know.
It's dirty work. I'd rig up a shop vac hose on the boring bar.
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Default Turning brake drums


"Karl Townsend" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 03:55:15 -0700, "Howard Beal"
wrote:

Any tips on turning brake drums on a toolroom lathe ?

getting them mounted true is the only challenge. Surprised a toolroom
lathe would be large enough to even consider it.


The lathe will swing 12" and the brake drum is only 10".

I was thinking about useing a 5C fixture collet turned to the diameter
of the center hole on the drum. Seems that would simplify centering
and squaring.

Best Regards
Tom.




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Default Turning brake drums


"Jim Wilkins" wrote in message
...
"Howard Beal" wrote in message
...
Any tips on turning brake drums on a toolroom lathe ?

Gonna do a brake job on my car over the week end and
am thinking about turning the drums myself.

TIA.

Best Regards
Tom.


http://www.wewilliams.net/docs/1936%...0No %204A.pdf

-jsw


Thanks for the link. Some great stuff in that pamphlet, saved that one for
reference.

Best Regards
Tom.



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Default Turning brake drums

On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 03:55:15 -0700, "Howard Beal"
wrote:

Any tips on turning brake drums on a toolroom lathe ?

Gonna do a brake job on my car over the week end and
am thinking about turning the drums myself.

TIA.

Best Regards
Tom.


The most common problem is vibration. They "sing" like crazy.

Old-time solutions include cutting big "rubber bands" from old inner
tubes, and stretching a few of them around the drum, until the singing
stops. You can arrange other things to dampen it.

I turned the drums on two of my little cars, an MG Midget and a Ford
Fiesta. Fortunately, I no longer have drums. Unfortunately, discs are
too big for my SB 10L. However, I could turn the discs on my old
Fiestas, which is an indication of why they were scary to drive on a
race track. g

--
Ed Huntress

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Default Turning brake drums

On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 03:55:15 -0700, "Howard Beal"
wrote:

Any tips on turning brake drums on a toolroom lathe ?

Gonna do a brake job on my car over the week end and
am thinking about turning the drums myself.

TIA.

Best Regards
Tom.

Generally speaking today if they need turning you are better to
replace them. They are on the thin side to start with, so machining
them at all makes them too thin to work properly. Drums are (generally
speaking) pretty cheap. Not like you are in the middle of a third
world country with an obsolete vehicle (like my old '49 VW in Zambia
in '73 or '74, where I had to hack-saw and chisel a 1961 VW drum (half
an inch too wide) to fit when the spline stripped out of the original
on a trip)
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Default Turning brake drums

On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 17:29:08 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 03:55:15 -0700, "Howard Beal"
wrote:

Any tips on turning brake drums on a toolroom lathe ?

Gonna do a brake job on my car over the week end and
am thinking about turning the drums myself.

TIA.

Best Regards
Tom.

Generally speaking today if they need turning you are better to
replace them. They are on the thin side to start with, so machining
them at all makes them too thin to work properly. Drums are (generally
speaking) pretty cheap.


This is true for newer vehicles, maybe 1990 on. But earlier vehicles
had more meat on the drums. New rotors are much worse, built to be
replaced rather than turned from the get-go. sigh I'm not looking
forward to financing the replacement of my rear disc+drum rotors on
the Tundra down the line, lemme tell ya. The emergency brake uses a
drum made in the interior of the rotor hub. Very odd setup.

That said, I have 54k miles on the beastie now and need to look at
those.


Not like you are in the middle of a third
world country with an obsolete vehicle (like my old '49 VW in Zambia
in '73 or '74, where I had to hack-saw and chisel a 1961 VW drum (half
an inch too wide) to fit when the spline stripped out of the original
on a trip)


Sounds like that was a real joy to perform. Ugh!

--
My desire to be well-informed is currently
at odds with my desire to remain sane. --Sipkess
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Default Turning brake drums

On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 17:37:03 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 17:29:08 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 03:55:15 -0700, "Howard Beal"
wrote:

Any tips on turning brake drums on a toolroom lathe ?

Gonna do a brake job on my car over the week end and
am thinking about turning the drums myself.

TIA.

Best Regards
Tom.

Generally speaking today if they need turning you are better to
replace them. They are on the thin side to start with, so machining
them at all makes them too thin to work properly. Drums are (generally
speaking) pretty cheap.


This is true for newer vehicles, maybe 1990 on. But earlier vehicles
had more meat on the drums. New rotors are much worse, built to be
replaced rather than turned from the get-go. sigh I'm not looking
forward to financing the replacement of my rear disc+drum rotors on
the Tundra down the line, lemme tell ya. The emergency brake uses a
drum made in the interior of the rotor hub. Very odd setup.

That said, I have 54k miles on the beastie now and need to look at
those.


Not like you are in the middle of a third
world country with an obsolete vehicle (like my old '49 VW in Zambia
in '73 or '74, where I had to hack-saw and chisel a 1961 VW drum (half
an inch too wide) to fit when the spline stripped out of the original
on a trip)


Sounds like that was a real joy to perform. Ugh!

You do a lot of strange things when there is no other alternative.
That drum took almost 2 hours of hack-sawing and chipping to get it to
fit - on a Sunday afternoon about half way between Choma (the new
capital of southern province) and Macha (home of the Macha Research
Trust and Malaria Institute).

I also made an "exhaust system" for it out of copper plumbing
fittings, Land Rover driveshaft, and a gas filler.

Had a Peugeot 204 and the engine mount let go - making it impossible
to shift gears (4 on the tree) so I welded up a solid mount to stay
mobile until I could get a new rubber one shipped in.
It was involved in a rather major colission - T-boned a Datsun 1200
and shortend the car 4 inches and swayed the front end almost 10
inches - would never have even THOUGHT about repairing it here - I
pulled and hammered it back into shape without replacing a single part
other than the battery.
The battery in the VW died - and it was over a month's wages for a
new battery. I jury rigged a Land Rover crank and crank-nut to the end
of the crankshaft and hand cranked it for months until the battery in
the big Leland Lorry died - one bad cell, second from the negative
end. I hacksawed off the neg post, drilled it and screwed it to the
intercell link in the middle of the battery, pulled ou the back seat,
and threw it in.

We had a land rover that put a rod through the block. We bored it out,
machined down a fergusson tractor sleeve and shrink-fit it in - then
finish bored it to fit the original piston. With a cube of rad-sealer
it sealed up perfectly


Among a lot of other crazy things.


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Default Turning brake drums

wrote in message
...
On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 17:37:03 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 17:29:08 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 03:55:15 -0700, "Howard Beal"
wrote:

Any tips on turning brake drums on a toolroom lathe ?

Gonna do a brake job on my car over the week end and
am thinking about turning the drums myself.

TIA.

Best Regards
Tom.

Generally speaking today if they need turning you are better to
replace them. They are on the thin side to start with, so machining
them at all makes them too thin to work properly. Drums are
(generally
speaking) pretty cheap.


This is true for newer vehicles, maybe 1990 on. But earlier
vehicles
had more meat on the drums. New rotors are much worse, built to be
replaced rather than turned from the get-go. sigh I'm not
looking
forward to financing the replacement of my rear disc+drum rotors on
the Tundra down the line, lemme tell ya. The emergency brake uses a
drum made in the interior of the rotor hub. Very odd setup.

That said, I have 54k miles on the beastie now and need to look at
those.


Not like you are in the middle of a third
world country with an obsolete vehicle (like my old '49 VW in
Zambia
in '73 or '74, where I had to hack-saw and chisel a 1961 VW drum
(half
an inch too wide) to fit when the spline stripped out of the
original
on a trip)


Sounds like that was a real joy to perform. Ugh!

You do a lot of strange things when there is no other alternative.
That drum took almost 2 hours of hack-sawing and chipping to get it
to
fit - on a Sunday afternoon about half way between Choma (the new
capital of southern province) and Macha (home of the Macha Research
Trust and Malaria Institute).

I also made an "exhaust system" for it out of copper plumbing
fittings, Land Rover driveshaft, and a gas filler.

Had a Peugeot 204 and the engine mount let go - making it impossible
to shift gears (4 on the tree) so I welded up a solid mount to stay
mobile until I could get a new rubber one shipped in.
It was involved in a rather major colission - T-boned a Datsun 1200
and shortend the car 4 inches and swayed the front end almost 10
inches - would never have even THOUGHT about repairing it here - I
pulled and hammered it back into shape without replacing a single
part
other than the battery.
The battery in the VW died - and it was over a month's wages for a
new battery. I jury rigged a Land Rover crank and crank-nut to the
end
of the crankshaft and hand cranked it for months until the battery
in
the big Leland Lorry died - one bad cell, second from the negative
end. I hacksawed off the neg post, drilled it and screwed it to the
intercell link in the middle of the battery, pulled ou the back
seat,
and threw it in.

We had a land rover that put a rod through the block. We bored it
out,
machined down a fergusson tractor sleeve and shrink-fit it in - then
finish bored it to fit the original piston. With a cube of
rad-sealer
it sealed up perfectly


Among a lot of other crazy things.


http://www.economist.com/news/middle...art-making-lot



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Default Turning brake drums

On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 21:28:27 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 17:37:03 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:
Sounds like that was a real joy to perform. Ugh!


You do a lot of strange things when there is no other alternative.
That drum took almost 2 hours of hack-sawing and chipping to get it to
fit - on a Sunday afternoon about half way between Choma (the new
capital of southern province) and Macha (home of the Macha Research
Trust and Malaria Institute).


Lovely.


I also made an "exhaust system" for it out of copper plumbing
fittings, Land Rover driveshaft, and a gas filler.


Now _that_ is an odd combination. g


Had a Peugeot 204 and the engine mount let go - making it impossible
to shift gears (4 on the tree) so I welded up a solid mount to stay
mobile until I could get a new rubber one shipped in.
It was involved in a rather major colission - T-boned a Datsun 1200
and shortend the car 4 inches and swayed the front end almost 10


I'll bet she was a doglegging bitch after that. bseg I saw a truck
with no rubber in the eye of a leaf once, and he had about 1 foot of
dogleg. 'Twas a wrecking yard parts retreiver truck; no big deal.


inches - would never have even THOUGHT about repairing it here - I
pulled and hammered it back into shape without replacing a single part
other than the battery.


Not safe, but runnable, eh?


The battery in the VW died - and it was over a month's wages for a
new battery. I jury rigged a Land Rover crank and crank-nut to the end
of the crankshaft and hand cranked it for months until the battery in
the big Leland Lorry died - one bad cell, second from the negative
end. I hacksawed off the neg post, drilled it and screwed it to the
intercell link in the middle of the battery, pulled ou the back seat,
and threw it in.


Heh heh heh.


We had a land rover that put a rod through the block. We bored it out,
machined down a fergusson tractor sleeve and shrink-fit it in - then
finish bored it to fit the original piston. With a cube of rad-sealer
it sealed up perfectly


Those are some heavy duty repairs. No parts but a full machine shop?
You were lucky.


Among a lot of other crazy things.


I helped a lady with her Buick or some odd GM veHICKle one time. She
was in the parking lot at the grocery store and I was coming home from
work wrenching, so I was still stinky. Several people were standing
around, trying to help, so I put my bags of groceries in the car and
walked over. Her shifter was loose, with no feeling of detents. I put
it in park, crawled under the car with my trusty Mac4, and fixed it
for her. The shift linkage had come loose from the auto trans lever
on the tranny, and the interlock was moved by said lever, so nothing
happened when she tried to start it. I think that was the first time
in public I'd heard applause for a quick fix. I was probably still a
deep shade of maroon when I got in my car and left.

Mac4 = MAC 4" crescent wrench which had been ground to rotate farther
open until it could handle a 9/16" nut or bolt. I've had her for over
40 years now. VERY handy in so many tight places.

--
My desire to be well-informed is currently
at odds with my desire to remain sane. --Sipkess
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Default Turning brake drums

On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 21:49:57 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .


Among a lot of other crazy things.


http://www.economist.com/news/middle...art-making-lot


The Chinese are now outsourcing to Ethiopia, too? I knew they were
already outsourcing to India, Vietnam, and Thailand. Small world.

--
My desire to be well-informed is currently
at odds with my desire to remain sane. --Sipkess
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Default Turning brake drums

On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 20:01:40 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 21:28:27 -0400, wrote:

On Thu, 23 Jul 2015 17:37:03 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:
Sounds like that was a real joy to perform. Ugh!


You do a lot of strange things when there is no other alternative.
That drum took almost 2 hours of hack-sawing and chipping to get it to
fit - on a Sunday afternoon about half way between Choma (the new
capital of southern province) and Macha (home of the Macha Research
Trust and Malaria Institute).


Lovely.


I also made an "exhaust system" for it out of copper plumbing
fittings, Land Rover driveshaft, and a gas filler.


Now _that_ is an odd combination. g


It was apparently an old WW2 Kubelwagen engine - 985CC FMCV1 and 10
taxable HP - NO parts available to replace the (at that time) 25 year
old. There were not supposed to be any in civilian production, but the
muffler from the 1100 and 1200 cc engines wouldn't fit - and even they
were virtually unavailable.

The vehicle was registered in Zambia as a 1949, but may well have been
produced earlier than that. The fact that it originally had 4.5X16
tires would indicate production before 1946 - and the FMCV1 would
indicate 1943 or earlier ---as the 1100 cc engine came out in early
1944.
It also had a magnesium trans case - 1949 had Elektron Alloy, and it
had no cable bonnet release - also a 1949 innovation., and the brake
drums were modified in 1948 ---

Mine had the old brake drums, the 4X16 rims, no internal hood/bonnet
release, Magnesium cased "crash box" transmission,FMCV1 985cc engine,
- all signs of pre-1949 production - and actually pointing towards
1946 mechanicals - - - - -
But it had the wolfsburg crest on the bonnet and the 1949 style
speedometer - so who knows what it REALLY was - and it could have been
parts of several vehicles by the time I got it with who knows how many
owners before me - the last being a south-african "coloured" VW
mechanic.


Had a Peugeot 204 and the engine mount let go - making it impossible
to shift gears (4 on the tree) so I welded up a solid mount to stay
mobile until I could get a new rubber one shipped in.
It was involved in a rather major colission - T-boned a Datsun 1200
and shortend the car 4 inches and swayed the front end almost 10


I'll bet she was a doglegging bitch after that. bseg I saw a truck
with no rubber in the eye of a leaf once, and he had about 1 foot of
dogleg. 'Twas a wrecking yard parts retreiver truck; no big deal.


inches - would never have even THOUGHT about repairing it here - I
pulled and hammered it back into shape without replacing a single part
other than the battery.


Not safe, but runnable, eh?


The battery in the VW died - and it was over a month's wages for a
new battery. I jury rigged a Land Rover crank and crank-nut to the end
of the crankshaft and hand cranked it for months until the battery in
the big Leland Lorry died - one bad cell, second from the negative
end. I hacksawed off the neg post, drilled it and screwed it to the
intercell link in the middle of the battery, pulled ou the back seat,
and threw it in.


Heh heh heh.


We had a land rover that put a rod through the block. We bored it out,
machined down a fergusson tractor sleeve and shrink-fit it in - then
finish bored it to fit the original piston. With a cube of rad-sealer
it sealed up perfectly


Those are some heavy duty repairs. No parts but a full machine shop?
You were lucky.


Among a lot of other crazy things.


I helped a lady with her Buick or some odd GM veHICKle one time. She
was in the parking lot at the grocery store and I was coming home from
work wrenching, so I was still stinky. Several people were standing
around, trying to help, so I put my bags of groceries in the car and
walked over. Her shifter was loose, with no feeling of detents. I put
it in park, crawled under the car with my trusty Mac4, and fixed it
for her. The shift linkage had come loose from the auto trans lever
on the tranny, and the interlock was moved by said lever, so nothing
happened when she tried to start it. I think that was the first time
in public I'd heard applause for a quick fix. I was probably still a
deep shade of maroon when I got in my car and left.

Mac4 = MAC 4" crescent wrench which had been ground to rotate farther
open until it could handle a 9/16" nut or bolt. I've had her for over
40 years now. VERY handy in so many tight places.


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Default Turning brake drums

wrote:
It was apparently an old WW2 Kubelwagen engine - 985CC FMCV1 and 10
taxable HP - NO parts available to replace the (at that time) 25 year
old. There were not supposed to be any in civilian production, but the
muffler from the 1100 and 1200 cc engines wouldn't fit - and even they
were virtually unavailable.

The vehicle was registered in Zambia as a 1949, but may well have been
produced earlier than that. The fact that it originally had 4.5X16
tires would indicate production before 1946 - and the FMCV1 would
indicate 1943 or earlier ---as the 1100 cc engine came out in early
1944.
It also had a magnesium trans case - 1949 had Elektron Alloy, and it
had no cable bonnet release - also a 1949 innovation., and the brake
drums were modified in 1948 ---

Mine had the old brake drums, the 4X16 rims, no internal hood/bonnet
release, Magnesium cased "crash box" transmission,FMCV1 985cc engine,
- all signs of pre-1949 production - and actually pointing towards
1946 mechanicals - - - - -
But it had the wolfsburg crest on the bonnet and the 1949 style
speedometer - so who knows what it REALLY was - and it could have been
parts of several vehicles by the time I got it with who knows how many
owners before me - the last being a south-african "coloured" VW
mechanic.


"Who am I - and if so, how many?"

--

"I'm a doctor, not a mechanic." Dr Leonard McCoy
"I'm a mechanic, not a doctor." Volker Borchert
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