Even worse is H2S Hydrogen Sulfide.

It is as small as water, can't mechanically filter it.
It can out gas from water and attack the lungs and blood system.
Quick painful death. e.g. poison gas well.

The only filtration method is over silver metal. Or massive
oxygenation. Banks of water towers that spray fine mist.

The Hydrogen is so small it invades iron and steel and plastic
pipe. In Fe materials - rust and exfoliation occurs. Death of
a water system by a thousand cuts. The sulfur ionizes to SO2 rotten egg
gas. It helps rot out copper pipes and by stealing Oxygen
from the water, More hydrogen kills pipes. The free oxygen attacks
the pipe and creates FeO a black powder with a metallic slick on
ceramic.....
Martin

On 7/4/2015 6:56 AM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
John B. fired this volley in
:

I read somewhere that everyone that consumes
even tiny amounts is either already dead, or will die.


Some chemists say that the correct term is not "dihydrogen monoxide", but
for specific reasons, Hydrogen Hydroxide.

H(OH), in sufficient concentration, will also prevent oxygen from being
absorbed by the lungs. Many people have died from H(OH)'s effects on
oxygen absorption.

It's dangerous, damaging stuff! Hundreds of Billions of Dollars worth of
damage to property and infrastructure can be attributed to exposure to
it.

It's even been known to wear holes through iron well pipes.

Lloyd

Martin Eastburn fired this volley in
:

Even worse is H2S Hydrogen Sulfide.

In order -- yes, it's worse.

It is as small as water, can't mechanically filter it.
It can out gas from water and attack the lungs and blood system.
Quick painful death. e.g. poison gas well.

The only filtration method is over silver metal. Or massive
oxygenation. Banks of water towers that spray fine mist.

Silver is hardly the only way, or even the preferred way to remove it.
Using a silver-bearing filter requires very expensive recycling of the
silver sulfide created, and it's a pain as well as expensive.

H2S can be removed by chlorination (which some folks don't like),
converting the sulfur to insoluble sulfides that CAN be filtered
mechanically. It can also be removed by so-called "manganese green
sand" filters. Or, as you suggested above, by aeration.

That method doesn't USE oxygenation, although that occurs as a byproduct
of the spraying. H2S has a high vapor pressure. Break the water up into
small enough droplets or thin enough sheets, and H2S will gas-off by
itself. Residence time in the tank with the top surface exposed to
circulating air after the first aeration improves the degree of
'desulfurization'. The downside of the method is that it requires two
pumps: One for lift-and-spraying, the other to move water from the
desulfuring tank to the pressure tank.

No "banks of water towers" are required. We have strong "sulfur water"
here. For residential service, a single 500-gallon 'square' (high as
wide) tank (heavily ventilated and screened) with four 'sheeting
nozzles' spraying the fresh well water over the top, and plenty of air
circulation serves fine to remove all of it.

The Hydrogen is so small it invades iron and steel and plastic
pipe. In Fe materials - rust and exfoliation occurs. Death of
a water system by a thousand cuts. The sulfur ionizes to SO2
rotten egg gas.

Nope... "rotten egg gas" is H2S. SO2 is "sour" (acid in smell and taste)
If SO2 is released or created, it combines with water to form sulfurOUS
acid, that is pretty corrosive. It's not a natural product of sulfur
water aeration, and seldom is present in well water.

I will agree that 'sulfur water' rots pipes out faster than 'good' water,
but only if it GETS INTO your COPPER or brass pipes. We remove the H2S
before it gets into anything but the iron lift pipe and first pump (iron,
also). HS2 doesn't tend to affect iron much after that very thin 'black
layer' you mention forms.

Mine's only about 17 years old right now...still going strong, though; no
leaks, no corrosion. And when I had the lift pump off for replacement
(due to lightning) about a year ago, NO visible diminishment of the wall
thickness of the pipe.

Lloyd

On Sat, 04 Jul 2015 20:57:04 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Martin Eastburn fired this volley in
:

Even worse is H2S Hydrogen Sulfide.

In order -- yes, it's worse.

It is as small as water, can't mechanically filter it.
It can out gas from water and attack the lungs and blood system.
Quick painful death. e.g. poison gas well.

The only filtration method is over silver metal. Or massive
oxygenation. Banks of water towers that spray fine mist.

Silver is hardly the only way, or even the preferred way to remove it.
Using a silver-bearing filter requires very expensive recycling of the
silver sulfide created, and it's a pain as well as expensive.

H2S can be removed by chlorination (which some folks don't like),
converting the sulfur to insoluble sulfides that CAN be filtered
mechanically. It can also be removed by so-called "manganese green
sand" filters. Or, as you suggested above, by aeration.

That method doesn't USE oxygenation, although that occurs as a byproduct
of the spraying. H2S has a high vapor pressure. Break the water up into
small enough droplets or thin enough sheets, and H2S will gas-off by
itself. Residence time in the tank with the top surface exposed to
circulating air after the first aeration improves the degree of
'desulfurization'. The downside of the method is that it requires two
pumps: One for lift-and-spraying, the other to move water from the
desulfuring tank to the pressure tank.


I'm not sure about treating water but "sour gas", i.e. hydrocarbon gas
containing significant amounts of H2S, is usually treated using amines
in trayed columns which can also remove CO2. The system uses an
amine-water mix as an absorbent.

By the way, H2S in small concentrations smells like rotten eggs, but
in concentrations dangerous to life it deadens the sense of smell so
it effectively has no odor :-)


No "banks of water towers" are required. We have strong "sulfur water"
here. For residential service, a single 500-gallon 'square' (high as
wide) tank (heavily ventilated and screened) with four 'sheeting
nozzles' spraying the fresh well water over the top, and plenty of air
circulation serves fine to remove all of it.

The Hydrogen is so small it invades iron and steel and plastic
pipe. In Fe materials - rust and exfoliation occurs. Death of
a water system by a thousand cuts. The sulfur ionizes to SO2
rotten egg gas.

Nope... "rotten egg gas" is H2S. SO2 is "sour" (acid in smell and taste)
If SO2 is released or created, it combines with water to form sulfurOUS
acid, that is pretty corrosive. It's not a natural product of sulfur
water aeration, and seldom is present in well water.

I will agree that 'sulfur water' rots pipes out faster than 'good' water,
but only if it GETS INTO your COPPER or brass pipes. We remove the H2S
before it gets into anything but the iron lift pipe and first pump (iron,
also). HS2 doesn't tend to affect iron much after that very thin 'black
layer' you mention forms.

Mine's only about 17 years old right now...still going strong, though; no
leaks, no corrosion. And when I had the lift pump off for replacement
(due to lightning) about a year ago, NO visible diminishment of the wall
thickness of the pipe.

Lloyd
--
cheers,

John B.

On 07/03/2015 1:53 PM, Dave, I can't do that wrote:
....

I think the well people out here know what they are talking about. ...

I wonder if instead they simply say something and if the customer buys
it and continues to pony up and simply replace what isn't working well
with the same thing it's no skin off their noses...

Have you actually _seen_ and inspected one of these failed sections? I
suppose it would be too much to think you'd have one around and could
post pic's? Is it _really_ abrasion-thinning from the _INSIDE_ of the
pipe or, as I'm guessing outside?

--

Small well Lloyd The hydrogen is small and gets into iron standpipes
of the firehouse and valves as well as black iron pipes in homes ....
The black is black oxide. It flakes off, being super fine and makes
the pipe wall thinner.

The volume of an 8" small pipe is larger than your well. I'm talking
about city size wells for filling tall towers.

The volume is much higher than you figure. Our little town doesn't
have the problem, but the main pipes are running 600 PSI in a 16"
pipe. We have new building near our place - across the wire fence..
They drove heavy equipment over a pipe that jammed down into the
main trunk. It was better than a fountain on the 4th.

Martin

On 7/4/2015 8:57 PM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
Martin Eastburn fired this volley in
:

Even worse is H2S Hydrogen Sulfide.

In order -- yes, it's worse.

It is as small as water, can't mechanically filter it.
It can out gas from water and attack the lungs and blood system.
Quick painful death. e.g. poison gas well.

The only filtration method is over silver metal. Or massive
oxygenation. Banks of water towers that spray fine mist.

Silver is hardly the only way, or even the preferred way to remove it.
Using a silver-bearing filter requires very expensive recycling of the
silver sulfide created, and it's a pain as well as expensive.

H2S can be removed by chlorination (which some folks don't like),
converting the sulfur to insoluble sulfides that CAN be filtered
mechanically. It can also be removed by so-called "manganese green
sand" filters. Or, as you suggested above, by aeration.

That method doesn't USE oxygenation, although that occurs as a byproduct
of the spraying. H2S has a high vapor pressure. Break the water up into
small enough droplets or thin enough sheets, and H2S will gas-off by
itself. Residence time in the tank with the top surface exposed to
circulating air after the first aeration improves the degree of
'desulfurization'. The downside of the method is that it requires two
pumps: One for lift-and-spraying, the other to move water from the
desulfuring tank to the pressure tank.

No "banks of water towers" are required. We have strong "sulfur water"
here. For residential service, a single 500-gallon 'square' (high as
wide) tank (heavily ventilated and screened) with four 'sheeting
nozzles' spraying the fresh well water over the top, and plenty of air
circulation serves fine to remove all of it.

The Hydrogen is so small it invades iron and steel and plastic
pipe. In Fe materials - rust and exfoliation occurs. Death of
a water system by a thousand cuts. The sulfur ionizes to SO2
rotten egg gas.

Nope... "rotten egg gas" is H2S. SO2 is "sour" (acid in smell and taste)
If SO2 is released or created, it combines with water to form sulfurOUS
acid, that is pretty corrosive. It's not a natural product of sulfur
water aeration, and seldom is present in well water.

I will agree that 'sulfur water' rots pipes out faster than 'good' water,
but only if it GETS INTO your COPPER or brass pipes. We remove the H2S
before it gets into anything but the iron lift pipe and first pump (iron,
also). HS2 doesn't tend to affect iron much after that very thin 'black
layer' you mention forms.

Mine's only about 17 years old right now...still going strong, though; no
leaks, no corrosion. And when I had the lift pump off for replacement
(due to lightning) about a year ago, NO visible diminishment of the wall
thickness of the pipe.

Lloyd

Martin Eastburn fired this volley in
:

he volume is much higher than you figure. Our little town doesn't
have the problem, but the main pipes are running 600 PSI in a 16"
pipe.

I don't know what you figure I figure... I didn't argue with hydrogen
embrittlement. At 600psi, all sorts of things happen that don't at lower
pressures.

What I argued with was someone's (yours?) statement that S02 was the
"rotten egg smell". It's not.

Lloyd

Whatever.
Martin

On 7/9/2015 5:33 AM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
Martin Eastburn fired this volley in
:

he volume is much higher than you figure. Our little town doesn't
have the problem, but the main pipes are running 600 PSI in a 16"
pipe.

I don't know what you figure I figure... I didn't argue with hydrogen
embrittlement. At 600psi, all sorts of things happen that don't at lower
pressures.

What I argued with was someone's (yours?) statement that S02 was the
"rotten egg smell". It's not.

Lloyd

Martin Eastburn fired this volley in
:

Whatever.

Do I correctly interpret your "whatever" to say that in your opinion SO2
IS the 'rotten eggs smell'. Or is it some other mental shrug you're
doing.

If you are maintaing that, I'll give you a simple experiment that will
generate all the SO2 you want, so you can smell it, and see if it reminds
you of rotten eggs.

Just make a pile of about a teaspoonful flowers of sulfur on a fireproof
surface. Heaping it up as high as possible will help.

Gently play a torch flame over the pile. It'll start to look molten in
drops, then turn a reddish color, then brown, the parts will go back to
yellow and catch fire with a faint blue flame. It will flicker and lick,
and you may have to keep the torch at the ready to keep it burning.

The gas coming off that blue fire is sulfur dioxide. Take a SMALL sniff,
and get back with us on your impressions.

Lloyd

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 4.170...
Martin Eastburn fired this volley in
:

Whatever.

Do I correctly interpret your "whatever" to say that in your opinion
SO2
IS the 'rotten eggs smell'. Or is it some other mental shrug you're
doing.

If you are maintaing that, I'll give you a simple experiment that
will
generate all the SO2 you want, so you can smell it, and see if it
reminds
you of rotten eggs.

Just make a pile of about a teaspoonful flowers of sulfur on a
fireproof
surface. Heaping it up as high as possible will help.

Gently play a torch flame over the pile. It'll start to look molten
in
drops, then turn a reddish color, then brown, the parts will go back
to
yellow and catch fire with a faint blue flame. It will flicker and
lick,
and you may have to keep the torch at the ready to keep it burning.

The gas coming off that blue fire is sulfur dioxide. Take a SMALL
sniff,
and get back with us on your impressions.

Lloyd

A lead-acid battery smells slightly of SO2.but not H2S with the filler
caps off.

This isn't worth the work to prove anything. I know what kills me
on an easy day. And I have talked to large and small developers of
housing and work sites. Posion gas is dangerous and starts out as
rotten eggs and then you loose the smell.

You are not allergic to sulphur like I. I'm sensitive to it.
I'm talking about H2S not So2. And that is the difference.

Martin

On 7/10/2015 6:22 AM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
Martin Eastburn fired this volley in
:

Whatever.

Do I correctly interpret your "whatever" to say that in your opinion SO2
IS the 'rotten eggs smell'. Or is it some other mental shrug you're
doing.

If you are maintaing that, I'll give you a simple experiment that will
generate all the SO2 you want, so you can smell it, and see if it reminds
you of rotten eggs.

Just make a pile of about a teaspoonful flowers of sulfur on a fireproof
surface. Heaping it up as high as possible will help.

Gently play a torch flame over the pile. It'll start to look molten in
drops, then turn a reddish color, then brown, the parts will go back to
yellow and catch fire with a faint blue flame. It will flicker and lick,
and you may have to keep the torch at the ready to keep it burning.

The gas coming off that blue fire is sulfur dioxide. Take a SMALL sniff,
and get back with us on your impressions.

Lloyd

"Dave, I can't do that" wrote:

On Friday, July 3, 2015 at 9:13:48 AM UTC-7, Tim Wescott wrote:

Make sure your fancy wattmeter can stand the current draw -- a normal
outlet is 10 or 15 amps; your pump may need much more.

It's a 240v 1.5hp motor (1134-Watt) and I doubt the meter is directly in series with the load. Might be wrong, have been before.

Or just an old mechanical clock, if you looked at it often

Great idea, thanks, I will see what's at the local junk shops next time in town. Must surely be able to find one of those old flap-clocks.

The pump, supply and connections are 100-feet from the house and not visible and, I would prefer not to be adding 100-Watts extra to the costs.

I am going with the flap-clock, if I can find one. Brilliant thought, thanks again.

Dave

This is a lot better than an old clock:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Standco-Type-T-41-AC-Running-Time-Meter-2-/400822185748

Larry Jaques wrote:

So why haven't you put a rubber baby buggy bumper around the pipe
there during one of these repair sessions, Dave? This would head off
the repair instead of just letting you know when it wore through. I
have seen bumpers you can install on the flexi poly line so it doesn't
wear through. (Where the hell did I see that?) Googlit.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/TORQUE-STOP-ARRESTOR-WATER-WELL-SUBMERSIBLE-PUMP-WIRE-PROTECTION-ARRESTER-/271552325722

Lowe's has them, on their website.

On Mon, 27 Jul 2015 02:30:00 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

So why haven't you put a rubber baby buggy bumper around the pipe
there during one of these repair sessions, Dave? This would head off
the repair instead of just letting you know when it wore through. I
have seen bumpers you can install on the flexi poly line so it doesn't
wear through. (Where the hell did I see that?) Googlit.


http://www.ebay.com/itm/TORQUE-STOP-ARRESTOR-WATER-WELL-SUBMERSIBLE-PUMP-WIRE-PROTECTION-ARRESTER-/271552325722

Lowe's has them, on their website.

LORDY, they don't give those away, do they?

--
My desire to be well-informed is currently
at odds with my desire to remain sane. --Sipkess

Larry Jaques wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

So why haven't you put a rubber baby buggy bumper around the pipe
there during one of these repair sessions, Dave? This would head off
the repair instead of just letting you know when it wore through. I
have seen bumpers you can install on the flexi poly line so it doesn't
wear through. (Where the hell did I see that?) Googlit.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TORQUE-STOP-ARRESTOR-WATER-WELL-SUBMERSIBLE-PUMP-WIRE-PROTECTION-ARRESTER-/271552325722

Lowe's has them, on their website.

LORDY, they don't give those away, do they?


$17, compared to the price of all the other parts?

On Wed, 29 Jul 2015 08:45:20 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Larry Jaques wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Larry Jaques wrote:

So why haven't you put a rubber baby buggy bumper around the pipe
there during one of these repair sessions, Dave? This would head off
the repair instead of just letting you know when it wore through. I
have seen bumpers you can install on the flexi poly line so it doesn't
wear through. (Where the hell did I see that?) Googlit.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/TORQUE-STOP-ARRESTOR-WATER-WELL-SUBMERSIBLE-PUMP-WIRE-PROTECTION-ARRESTER-/271552325722

Lowe's has them, on their website.

LORDY, they don't give those away, do they?


$17, compared to the price of all the other parts?

No, seventeen bucks for a little piece of rubber and a pair of hose
clamps. Ootrageous, it is.

--
My desire to be well-informed is currently
at odds with my desire to remain sane. --Sipkess