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Old June 22nd 15, 01:20 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Default Volvo's supercharger + turbocharger

On 22/06/15 04:39, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 22 Jun 2015 08:30:31 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 17:40:11 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

For the gearheads:

If you think that engines are getting too complicated, you'll want to
take a look at Volvo's T6 engine. It has both a mechanical
supercharger and a turbocharger.

This has been in the press for around a year, but the engine is
available in two cars, is in production, and is getting some reviews.
Apparently it's very nice to drive. I wonder how nice it is to
repair...

The Eaton supercharger is there for low-end boost, to make the 2-liter
4-cyl. feel like a V8, with no turbo lag. At around 3500 rpm, a clutch
disingages the supercharger and the turbo, which is now fully spooled
up, takes over. It produces 302 hp and 295 ft.-lb of torque.

It's impressive engineering but I think they just tipped over the
edge. With direct injection, variable cam timing, and two types of
superchargers, it has to make mechanics gulp. I hope they've given as
much thought to maintenance and repair.

The Detroit Diesel engine had both roots blower and turbo, in some
instances. And yes, I know what it as for but the roots "blower" did
give an intake pressure higher than atmospheric, thus was a
"supercharger" by definition :-)

Pfhhht. g

And didn't VW market a car that had this system? Called the GT TSI, or
some such name. Back in 2005, or thereabouts.

Ohhhh, yeah. That one disappeared in a hurry, didn't it? I had
forgotten all about that one.

I've heard they had some problem but it's still around as an option
AFAIK. Nissan did this on the Micra Superturbo back in 1988, and Lancia
in the Delta S4 but that wasn't really a production car.

Add variable valve timing (which is old hat now-a-days_) and Viola! A
NEW Design :-)

I'd like to drive one, just to see how it feels.



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Old June 22nd 15, 01:52 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 8,987
Default Volvo's supercharger + turbocharger

On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 21:09:37 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
For the gearheads:

If you think that engines are getting too complicated, you'll want
to
take a look at Volvo's T6 engine. It has both a mechanical
supercharger and a turbocharger.

This has been in the press for around a year, but the engine is
available in two cars, is in production, and is getting some
reviews.
Apparently it's very nice to drive. I wonder how nice it is to
repair...

The Eaton supercharger is there for low-end boost, to make the
2-liter
4-cyl. feel like a V8, with no turbo lag. At around 3500 rpm, a
clutch
disingages the supercharger and the turbo, which is now fully
spooled
up, takes over. It produces 302 hp and 295 ft.-lb of torque.

It's impressive engineering but I think they just tipped over the
edge. With direct injection, variable cam timing, and two types of
superchargers, it has to make mechanics gulp. I hope they've given
as
much thought to maintenance and repair.

--
Ed Huntress


This afternoon I was listening to the crew of a machine of similar
complexity, the B-29 bomber "Fifi". They had removed the turbos and
replaced the direct mechanical injection with carbs to cut down the
enormous maintenance, since they don't need the original high
performance.


So they turned her into a cranky old bitch in the morning, did they?
It probably cut out 75% of the maintenance, though, so I'll bet it was
a mixed blessing.

I remember the difference between my old 302 Ford engines. The '68
Ranch Wagon had a 2bbl carb and the F-150 had an EFI system. The
performance difference was astounding. The EFI added what felt like
100hp and gave it instant performance from startup to shutdown.

That little carb was a darling compared to Holleys and Rottenchesters,
but it still wanted some time in the morning to warm up. I certainly
don't miss carbureted engine tune-ups, lemme tell ya. Especially
interim and post-SMOG engines from CA. I built a special bending tool
for choke pulloff rods to be able to adjust them better for cold
performance.


http://www.aviation-history.com/engines/r3350.htm


That engine sounds like a flaming bitch in any config.
"Altogether, the R-3350 went through tens of thousands of design
changes during its early development."

--
Find out what people will submit to, and you have found out the
exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them.
--Frederick Douglass
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Old June 22nd 15, 01:56 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 8,987
Default Volvo's supercharger + turbocharger

On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 23:12:36 -0400, wrote:

On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 21:29:44 -0500, "David R. Birch"
wrote:

On 6/21/2015 8:09 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:

This afternoon I was listening to the crew of a machine of similar
complexity, the B-29 bomber "Fifi". They had removed the turbos and
replaced the direct mechanical injection with carbs to cut down the
enormous maintenance, since they don't need the original high
performance.
http://www.aviation-history.com/engines/r3350.htm

-jsw


When the Soviets built the Tu-4, based on interned B-29 they studied,
they're tech was not up to replicating the Wright R-3350, so they
installed a carbureted radial which meant the Tu-4 had much less range.

When my Dad flew B-29 missions out of Tinian, they never flew with all
new or rebuilt engines, at least 2 were engines that had already proved
they were reliable.

David

Nothing like experience to instill confidence. An "experienced" engine
statistically has a lower chance of failure than a freshly rebuilt
one.


Indeed. Could you imagine the conditions their old wrenches
experienced on a Pacific island back then? Heat, humidity, blowing
dust, etc. I doubt we newer wrenches would have liked them at all,
and I applaud the job they did.

--
Find out what people will submit to, and you have found out the
exact amount of injustice and wrong which will be imposed on them.
--Frederick Douglass
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Old June 22nd 15, 02:06 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 897
Default Volvo's supercharger + turbocharger

On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 21:09:37 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ed Huntress" wrote in message
.. .
For the gearheads:

If you think that engines are getting too complicated, you'll want
to
take a look at Volvo's T6 engine. It has both a mechanical
supercharger and a turbocharger.

This has been in the press for around a year, but the engine is
available in two cars, is in production, and is getting some
reviews.
Apparently it's very nice to drive. I wonder how nice it is to
repair...

The Eaton supercharger is there for low-end boost, to make the
2-liter
4-cyl. feel like a V8, with no turbo lag. At around 3500 rpm, a
clutch
disingages the supercharger and the turbo, which is now fully
spooled
up, takes over. It produces 302 hp and 295 ft.-lb of torque.

It's impressive engineering but I think they just tipped over the
edge. With direct injection, variable cam timing, and two types of
superchargers, it has to make mechanics gulp. I hope they've given
as
much thought to maintenance and repair.

--
Ed Huntress


This afternoon I was listening to the crew of a machine of similar
complexity, the B-29 bomber "Fifi". They had removed the turbos and
replaced the direct mechanical injection with carbs to cut down the
enormous maintenance, since they don't need the original high
performance.
http://www.aviation-history.com/engines/r3350.htm

-jsw

I hate to tell you but the article you reference is a bunch of bull.

The first B-29's, if I am not mistaken, were equipped with carbureted
engines and the change to fuel injection was a move to increase power
and reliability. The B-29's were equipped with twin turbos and an
internal supercharger and with the waste-gates open you could get
about 30" at full throttle stationary on the ground at just a bit over
sea level.

The engines ran perfectly well in summer temperatures on the ground in
Japan during the Korean "Police Action" and in fact the cowl flaps
were partially closed at take off as full open cowl flaps would over
cool the engine on take off as well as adding drag.

No pilot or flight engineer would have even considered doing a mag
check on take off roll. Take off was with the turbo waste gates
partially closed so manifold pressure was probably 10 or 15" over 30
inches and God only knows what switching off half the spark plugs
would do.

In addition the brakes on a B-29 were famously poor and if you had a
bad mag check aborting while on takeoff roll with a bomb load and max
fuel aboard would result in running off the end of the runway. Not a
recommended practice although exactly that did happen at Yokota AB in
about 1952 or maybe 53 for exactly that reason. An engine backfired on
take off roll and an inexperienced pilot pulled the throttles back.
The airplane went through the fence, sheered the landing gear off, the
center wing fuel tank ruptured and it caught fire. With a full load of
bombs aboard.

The compound engines that they talk about were a later version of the
R-3350 and added three small power recovery turbines to the engine.
Not used on the B-29 but were used on at least one version of the
Lockheed Constellation. I did talk to some of the mechanics that
maintained those airplanes and they cursed the engines but none of
them had worked on the B-29 :-)

How do I know all this? Because I worked on the things for nearly 5
years both at Randolph Field in Texas and Yokota AB in Japan during
the Korean set to and after that was settled in a reconnaissance
squadron at the same base.
--
cheers,

John B.

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Old June 22nd 15, 02:06 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 897
Default Volvo's supercharger + turbocharger

On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 23:39:10 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Jun 2015 08:30:31 +0700, John B.
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 17:40:11 -0400, Ed Huntress
wrote:

For the gearheads:

If you think that engines are getting too complicated, you'll want to
take a look at Volvo's T6 engine. It has both a mechanical
supercharger and a turbocharger.

This has been in the press for around a year, but the engine is
available in two cars, is in production, and is getting some reviews.
Apparently it's very nice to drive. I wonder how nice it is to
repair...

The Eaton supercharger is there for low-end boost, to make the 2-liter
4-cyl. feel like a V8, with no turbo lag. At around 3500 rpm, a clutch
disingages the supercharger and the turbo, which is now fully spooled
up, takes over. It produces 302 hp and 295 ft.-lb of torque.

It's impressive engineering but I think they just tipped over the
edge. With direct injection, variable cam timing, and two types of
superchargers, it has to make mechanics gulp. I hope they've given as
much thought to maintenance and repair.


The Detroit Diesel engine had both roots blower and turbo, in some
instances. And yes, I know what it as for but the roots "blower" did
give an intake pressure higher than atmospheric, thus was a
"supercharger" by definition :-)


Pfhhht. g


And didn't VW market a car that had this system? Called the GT TSI, or
some such name. Back in 2005, or thereabouts.


Ohhhh, yeah. That one disappeared in a hurry, didn't it? I had
forgotten all about that one.


Add variable valve timing (which is old hat now-a-days_) and Viola! A
NEW Design :-)


I'd like to drive one, just to see how it feels.


Sometimes the "cutting edge" cuts both ways :-)

I had a friend that bought one of the first Wankel engine Mazda cars
imported into Thailand..... A year later he replaced the rotary with a
piston engine :-) He told me that he had it done at the Mazda shop and
it was literally a "drop in". Although that was likely an
engine-transmission package drop in.

(Years later he died of alcoholism but I'm not sure if the Mazda or
the woman he married caused that :-)
--
cheers,

John B.



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Old June 22nd 15, 03:16 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 1,417
Default Volvo's supercharger + turbocharger

On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 17:40:11 -0400
Ed Huntress wrote:

For the gearheads:

If you think that engines are getting too complicated, you'll want to
take a look at Volvo's T6 engine. It has both a mechanical
supercharger and a turbocharger.

snip

For sure, I like my old truck with mechanical diesel. The manual
windows go up/down, no air conditioner to break, no computer... you get
the idea

Did you see what Land Rover did, an app to control/maneuver the
vehicle?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjJ2wKCMq5w

I can hardly wait for that to get hacked and it will be for sure...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

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Old June 22nd 15, 03:20 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 12,540
Default Volvo's supercharger + turbocharger

On Mon, 22 Jun 2015 03:27:33 -0400, "Steve W."
wrote:

Ed Huntress wrote:
For the gearheads:

If you think that engines are getting too complicated, you'll want to
take a look at Volvo's T6 engine. It has both a mechanical
supercharger and a turbocharger.

This has been in the press for around a year, but the engine is
available in two cars, is in production, and is getting some reviews.
Apparently it's very nice to drive. I wonder how nice it is to
repair...

The Eaton supercharger is there for low-end boost, to make the 2-liter
4-cyl. feel like a V8, with no turbo lag. At around 3500 rpm, a clutch
disingages the supercharger and the turbo, which is now fully spooled
up, takes over. It produces 302 hp and 295 ft.-lb of torque.

It's impressive engineering but I think they just tipped over the
edge. With direct injection, variable cam timing, and two types of
superchargers, it has to make mechanics gulp. I hope they've given as
much thought to maintenance and repair.


A fellow NYer built a "Pro-Street" J-2000. Had 2 blowers and twin
turbochargers. Plus nitrous and injection for the extra fuel required.

http://www.stanceiseverything.com/20...pontiac-j2000/


I always enjoy wretched excess, especially when it's chromed and
nicely polished. g

My two favorites over the years were a small-block Chevy-powered
unicycle, which I saw at a Miami hot rod show in 1963, and Jay Leno's
tank-engined car, which I actually got to fondle when I was out there
last year:

http://pop.h-cdn.co/assets/cm/15/05/...no-tankcar.jpg

(Although I spent more time fondling his Grand Prix Bugattis from the
1920s and 1930s.)

--
Ed Huntress
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Old June 22nd 15, 03:22 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 12,540
Default Volvo's supercharger + turbocharger

On Mon, 22 Jun 2015 10:16:04 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 17:40:11 -0400
Ed Huntress wrote:

For the gearheads:

If you think that engines are getting too complicated, you'll want to
take a look at Volvo's T6 engine. It has both a mechanical
supercharger and a turbocharger.

snip

For sure, I like my old truck with mechanical diesel. The manual
windows go up/down, no air conditioner to break, no computer... you get
the idea

Did you see what Land Rover did, an app to control/maneuver the
vehicle?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjJ2wKCMq5w

I can hardly wait for that to get hacked and it will be for sure...


Oh, that's great. And because it's on a smart phone, nothing can ever
go wrong...go wrong...go wrong...

--
Ed Huntress
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Old June 22nd 15, 03:34 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 1,417
Default Volvo's supercharger + turbocharger

On Mon, 22 Jun 2015 10:22:14 -0400
Ed Huntress wrote:

On Mon, 22 Jun 2015 10:16:04 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 17:40:11 -0400
Ed Huntress wrote:

For the gearheads:

If you think that engines are getting too complicated, you'll want to
take a look at Volvo's T6 engine. It has both a mechanical
supercharger and a turbocharger.

snip

For sure, I like my old truck with mechanical diesel. The manual
windows go up/down, no air conditioner to break, no computer... you get
the idea

Did you see what Land Rover did, an app to control/maneuver the
vehicle?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjJ2wKCMq5w

I can hardly wait for that to get hacked and it will be for sure...


Oh, that's great. And because it's on a smart phone, nothing can ever
go wrong...go wrong...go wrong...


I'm a gizmo person, so I really like what that can do. Can you imagine
hooking up a trailer with that gizmo, cool! But it's going to be
hacked. Only question is what will the hacker command the vehicle to do?

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email

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Old June 22nd 15, 03:55 PM posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
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Posts: 12,540
Default Volvo's supercharger + turbocharger

On Mon, 22 Jun 2015 10:34:15 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Mon, 22 Jun 2015 10:22:14 -0400
Ed Huntress wrote:

On Mon, 22 Jun 2015 10:16:04 -0400, Leon Fisk
wrote:

On Sun, 21 Jun 2015 17:40:11 -0400
Ed Huntress wrote:

For the gearheads:

If you think that engines are getting too complicated, you'll want to
take a look at Volvo's T6 engine. It has both a mechanical
supercharger and a turbocharger.
snip

For sure, I like my old truck with mechanical diesel. The manual
windows go up/down, no air conditioner to break, no computer... you get
the idea

Did you see what Land Rover did, an app to control/maneuver the
vehicle?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QjJ2wKCMq5w

I can hardly wait for that to get hacked and it will be for sure...


Oh, that's great. And because it's on a smart phone, nothing can ever
go wrong...go wrong...go wrong...


I'm a gizmo person, so I really like what that can do. Can you imagine
hooking up a trailer with that gizmo, cool! But it's going to be
hacked. Only question is what will the hacker command the vehicle to do?


Hackers sometimes have vivid imaginations.

--
Ed Huntress


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