I'm looking for product names to look for.

I'm working on an instrument for a customer, and he's having me do the
whole-system design. This means I'm out of my comfort zone and playing
with mechanical issues.

It needs a big outer case (well, four feet long, by nine inches by two).
I'm thinking of doing the outer case from fiberglass for a number of
reasons, not least of which because I'm familiar with its
characteristics, and the instrument is going to be used on or near bodies
of water including salt water.

I'll need to attach things to this outer case. My current thinking is to
used buried studs and/or nuts, and use thumb-nuts and thumb-screws to
actually attach the bits. I'm assuming I want to use brass or stainless
hardware for corrosion resistance, and I probably want to take some pains
to match alloys.

McMaster is failing me for appropriate hardware. I'm finding thumbscrews
and thumb-nuts, but I'm not coming up with good candidates for nuts that
I can bury in the fiberglass. I'm assuming that the case will be a two-
part assembly that's glued together; nuts that can be buried in one side
and then captured in the gluing-up process seem to be the best notion to
me, but if someone with actual experience has alternate suggestions, I'll
listen (I may not _take_ your suggestion, but I'll certainly _listen_ and
_think_ about it).

So -- suggestions? I'm probably wanting some 4-40 or 6-32-ish sized
ones, and some 10-24 (or 1/4-20). The bigger ones may work better as
studs, with thumb nuts. I'm pretty sure that I want nuts for the little
ones, unless that presents severe difficulties.

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

"Tim Wescott" wrote in message
...
I'm looking for product names to look for.

I'm working on an instrument for a customer, and he's having me do the
whole-system design. This means I'm out of my comfort zone and playing
with mechanical issues.

It needs a big outer case (well, four feet long, by nine inches by two).
I'm thinking of doing the outer case from fiberglass for a number of
reasons, not least of which because I'm familiar with its
characteristics, and the instrument is going to be used on or near bodies
of water including salt water.

I'll need to attach things to this outer case. My current thinking is to
used buried studs and/or nuts, and use thumb-nuts and thumb-screws to
actually attach the bits. I'm assuming I want to use brass or stainless
hardware for corrosion resistance, and I probably want to take some pains
to match alloys.

McMaster is failing me for appropriate hardware. I'm finding thumbscrews
and thumb-nuts, but I'm not coming up with good candidates for nuts that
I can bury in the fiberglass. I'm assuming that the case will be a two-
part assembly that's glued together; nuts that can be buried in one side
and then captured in the gluing-up process seem to be the best notion to
me, but if someone with actual experience has alternate suggestions, I'll
listen (I may not _take_ your suggestion, but I'll certainly _listen_ and
_think_ about it).

So -- suggestions? I'm probably wanting some 4-40 or 6-32-ish sized
ones, and some 10-24 (or 1/4-20). The bigger ones may work better as
studs, with thumb nuts. I'm pretty sure that I want nuts for the little
ones, unless that presents severe difficulties.

5052 aluminum is fair for a marine environment, and it welds easily. It
doesn't machine as well, but it is possible to machine it too. That might
be an alternative for your shell. It can be drilled and tapped, but again
it can be a little finicky. 6-32 into 5052 would scare me, but I have done
it. 10-24 and 1/4-20 should be fine. I have heard 4-40 is easier than
6-32, but I have not done it.

I'm not sure about embedded nuts in glass, but stainless t-nuts are
available. Usually they are used in wood by driving them into the opposite
side as you are bolting from. If you do an encapsulated wood and fiberglass
design I am sure It would work, but I am not sure how long it would hold up
in your environment. In boat building they usually bolt through rather than
into glass or glass composite. The holes are sealed during the bolt through
assembly process. Occasionally screws are shot into glass, but they are
very low load applications, and the holes are sealed from one or both sides
as applicable.

Is your fiberglass plan for a sprayed or laid up shell in a mold, or do you
plan to use some form of a core? Or both? Fiberglass boats for example use
all of the above. A shell is sprayed into a mold, a core is added for
strength, and additional glass is sprayed and/or hand laid. I imagine if
your layup is heavy enough to handle any loads you probably can embed t-nuts
with a stuf already in them to provide a hole for your machine screw later,
(if you can find the right sizes) but it might be a tricky process. I am
sure a mold release would be needed on the stud.

On Fri, 05 Jun 2015 17:04:29 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:


Regarding your subject line, this is not to be recommended. They can
get awfully swarthy that way, and they are impossible to scratch.

A simple supporter and cup will do.

--
Ed Huntress

Tim Wescott wrote:
I'm looking for product names to look for.

I'm working on an instrument for a customer, and he's having me do the
whole-system design. This means I'm out of my comfort zone and playing
with mechanical issues.

It needs a big outer case (well, four feet long, by nine inches by two).
I'm thinking of doing the outer case from fiberglass for a number of
reasons, not least of which because I'm familiar with its
characteristics, and the instrument is going to be used on or near bodies
of water including salt water.

I'll need to attach things to this outer case. My current thinking is to
used buried studs and/or nuts, and use thumb-nuts and thumb-screws to
actually attach the bits. I'm assuming I want to use brass or stainless
hardware for corrosion resistance, and I probably want to take some pains
to match alloys.

McMaster is failing me for appropriate hardware. I'm finding thumbscrews
and thumb-nuts, but I'm not coming up with good candidates for nuts that
I can bury in the fiberglass. I'm assuming that the case will be a two-
part assembly that's glued together; nuts that can be buried in one side
and then captured in the gluing-up process seem to be the best notion to
me, but if someone with actual experience has alternate suggestions, I'll
listen (I may not _take_ your suggestion, but I'll certainly _listen_ and
_think_ about it).

So -- suggestions? I'm probably wanting some 4-40 or 6-32-ish sized
ones, and some 10-24 (or 1/4-20). The bigger ones may work better as
studs, with thumb nuts. I'm pretty sure that I want nuts for the little
ones, unless that presents severe difficulties.


Depending on how thick this case needs to be you might want to think of
a composite construction. Use something like thin plywood for a core and
install either stainless nut-serts or T nuts into that panel, then use
marine grade epoxy and glass mat to make it waterproof. The wood gives
you some structural strength and will hold the inserts in position.
Don't forget to insert the proper screws coated with release agent so
that the threads are clean.
Another option would be to install the insert into a piece of expanded
stainless sheet and embed that. That would give you more surface area.
Probably not needed with the little fasteners but might be for the
larger ones.

And lastly, If this will be a continuing item, you could take a piece of
stainless and make a girdle that has the holes drilled/tapped in the
correct places and glass that in.

Now that you've asked this bunch, Try dropping a note to Randy at
gofastfiberglass AT comcast DOT net He builds 'glass scoops, body
parts and more for some of the fastest vehicles out there. He can
probably give you a better idea.

--
Steve W.

On Friday, June 5, 2015 at 3:04:34 PM UTC-7, Tim Wescott wrote:
I'm looking for product names to look for.

I'm working on an instrument...
It needs a big outer case (well, four feet long, by nine inches by two).
I'm thinking of doing the outer case from fiberglass ...

I'll need to attach things to this outer case.

Well, if you can spread the stress to an internal metal plate (glass over it)
or sandwich the fiberglass between two plates, you can then drill and mount
rivnuts in said metal plate(s). There are also adhesive attach points (you
see 'em for locking down plastic box computers) that could work without
making holes in the fiberglass.

On Fri, 05 Jun 2015 17:04:29 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:

I'm looking for product names to look for.

I'm working on an instrument for a customer, and he's having me do the
whole-system design. This means I'm out of my comfort zone and playing
with mechanical issues.

It needs a big outer case (well, four feet long, by nine inches by two).
I'm thinking of doing the outer case from fiberglass for a number of
reasons, not least of which because I'm familiar with its
characteristics, and the instrument is going to be used on or near bodies
of water including salt water.

I'll need to attach things to this outer case. My current thinking is to
used buried studs and/or nuts, and use thumb-nuts and thumb-screws to
actually attach the bits. I'm assuming I want to use brass or stainless
hardware for corrosion resistance, and I probably want to take some pains
to match alloys.

McMaster is failing me for appropriate hardware. I'm finding thumbscrews
and thumb-nuts, but I'm not coming up with good candidates for nuts that
I can bury in the fiberglass. I'm assuming that the case will be a two-
part assembly that's glued together; nuts that can be buried in one side
and then captured in the gluing-up process seem to be the best notion to
me, but if someone with actual experience has alternate suggestions, I'll
listen (I may not _take_ your suggestion, but I'll certainly _listen_ and
_think_ about it).

So -- suggestions? I'm probably wanting some 4-40 or 6-32-ish sized
ones, and some 10-24 (or 1/4-20). The bigger ones may work better as
studs, with thumb nuts. I'm pretty sure that I want nuts for the little
ones, unless that presents severe difficulties.
Spae-Naur in Kitchener Ontario carries all kinds of press in and
mold-in thread inserts. One manufacturer is AVK Industrial Products.
Dodge makes some good ones too. Then there is Barb-Sert, and E-Z Lok
240 or 260 series

Call Spae Naur at 1-800-265-8772 and ask to talk to one of their
application people. They are a MAJOR industrial fastener distributor
in Canada - a long way from the auto uphostery shop (Spaetzel and
Naurman) they started out as in the twenties or so - who found getting
the little hardware required for the job was difficult in Canada, and
started stocking and distributing things like trim clips, window track
seals, fender welting - and on and on to what they are today.

(Still run by the Spaetzel family today)

On Fri, 05 Jun 2015 17:04:29 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:

I'm looking for product names to look for.

I'm working on an instrument for a customer, and he's having me do the
whole-system design. This means I'm out of my comfort zone and playing
with mechanical issues.

It needs a big outer case (well, four feet long, by nine inches by two).
I'm thinking of doing the outer case from fiberglass for a number of
reasons, not least of which because I'm familiar with its
characteristics, and the instrument is going to be used on or near bodies
of water including salt water.

A comment. If you make "fiberglass" enclosures for outdoor use try to
have them made with "jell coat" which is the outer colored layer of a
fiberglass lay up. You can paint them with two part paint but the jell
coat provides better UV protection.

I'll need to attach things to this outer case. My current thinking is to
used buried studs and/or nuts, and use thumb-nuts and thumb-screws to
actually attach the bits. I'm assuming I want to use brass or stainless
hardware for corrosion resistance, and I probably want to take some pains
to match alloys.

McMaster is failing me for appropriate hardware. I'm finding thumbscrews
and thumb-nuts, but I'm not coming up with good candidates for nuts that
I can bury in the fiberglass. I'm assuming that the case will be a two-
part assembly that's glued together; nuts that can be buried in one side
and then captured in the gluing-up process seem to be the best notion to
me, but if someone with actual experience has alternate suggestions, I'll
listen (I may not _take_ your suggestion, but I'll certainly _listen_ and
_think_ about it).


Buried studs would likely be a stronger solution. Depending your
design you could make then with a length of stainless all-thread. Cut
to length, a right angle bend then bond them into the container. A
6-32 nut would a far less secure fixture in the fiberglass.

So -- suggestions? I'm probably wanting some 4-40 or 6-32-ish sized
ones, and some 10-24 (or 1/4-20). The bigger ones may work better as
studs, with thumb nuts. I'm pretty sure that I want nuts for the little
ones, unless that presents severe difficulties.

Depending on the use, you might be able to simply drill and tap the
fiberglass and screw a coarse thread screw directly into the
fiberglass. Or even a sheet metal screw. If, for example, it was a
screw to hold a component in and would never be removed and replaced.

You might have a look at Click Bond as they seem to specialize in what
you want.
http://www.clickbond.com/files/Docum...alog_CBcat.pdf
--
cheers,

John B.

On 05/06/15 23:04, Tim Wescott wrote:
I'm looking for product names to look for.

I'm working on an instrument for a customer, and he's having me do the
whole-system design. This means I'm out of my comfort zone and playing
with mechanical issues.

It needs a big outer case (well, four feet long, by nine inches by two).
I'm thinking of doing the outer case from fiberglass for a number of
reasons, not least of which because I'm familiar with its
characteristics, and the instrument is going to be used on or near bodies
of water including salt water.

I'll need to attach things to this outer case. My current thinking is to
used buried studs and/or nuts, and use thumb-nuts and thumb-screws to
actually attach the bits. I'm assuming I want to use brass or stainless
hardware for corrosion resistance, and I probably want to take some pains
to match alloys.

McMaster is failing me for appropriate hardware. I'm finding thumbscrews
and thumb-nuts, but I'm not coming up with good candidates for nuts that
I can bury in the fiberglass. I'm assuming that the case will be a two-
part assembly that's glued together; nuts that can be buried in one side
and then captured in the gluing-up process seem to be the best notion to
me, but if someone with actual experience has alternate suggestions, I'll
listen (I may not _take_ your suggestion, but I'll certainly _listen_ and
_think_ about it).

So -- suggestions? I'm probably wanting some 4-40 or 6-32-ish sized
ones, and some 10-24 (or 1/4-20). The bigger ones may work better as
studs, with thumb nuts. I'm pretty sure that I want nuts for the little
ones, unless that presents severe difficulties.

I think the type of thing you're looking for is shown here
http://www.ecfibreglasssupplies.co.u...fasteners.aspx

In article , David Billington
wrote:

On 05/06/15 23:04, Tim Wescott wrote:
I'm looking for product names to look for.

I'm working on an instrument for a customer, and he's having me do the
whole-system design. This means I'm out of my comfort zone and playing
with mechanical issues.

It needs a big outer case (well, four feet long, by nine inches by two).
I'm thinking of doing the outer case from fiberglass for a number of
reasons, not least of which because I'm familiar with its
characteristics, and the instrument is going to be used on or near bodies
of water including salt water.

I'll need to attach things to this outer case. My current thinking is to
used buried studs and/or nuts, and use thumb-nuts and thumb-screws to
actually attach the bits. I'm assuming I want to use brass or stainless
hardware for corrosion resistance, and I probably want to take some pains
to match alloys.

McMaster is failing me for appropriate hardware. I'm finding thumbscrews
and thumb-nuts, but I'm not coming up with good candidates for nuts that
I can bury in the fiberglass. I'm assuming that the case will be a two-
part assembly that's glued together; nuts that can be buried in one side
and then captured in the gluing-up process seem to be the best notion to
me, but if someone with actual experience has alternate suggestions, I'll
listen (I may not _take_ your suggestion, but I'll certainly _listen_ and
_think_ about it).

So -- suggestions? I'm probably wanting some 4-40 or 6-32-ish sized
ones, and some 10-24 (or 1/4-20). The bigger ones may work better as
studs, with thumb nuts. I'm pretty sure that I want nuts for the little
ones, unless that presents severe difficulties.

I think the type of thing you're looking for is shown here
http://www.ecfibreglasssupplies.co.uk/c-924-inserts-and-fasteners.aspx

Exactly. More generally, the OP should ask his question in a
fiberglass boat building forum, as there are no doubt many practical
issues to be dealt with to get a reliable mechanical assembly.

Joe Gwinn

Joe Gwinn wrote in
:

In article , David Billington
wrote:

On 05/06/15 23:04, Tim Wescott wrote:
I'm looking for product names to look for.

I'm working on an instrument for a customer, and he's having me do
the whole-system design. This means I'm out of my comfort zone and
playing with mechanical issues.

It needs a big outer case (well, four feet long, by nine inches by
two). I'm thinking of doing the outer case from fiberglass for a
number of reasons, not least of which because I'm familiar with its
characteristics, and the instrument is going to be used on or near
bodies of water including salt water.

I'll need to attach things to this outer case. My current thinking
is to used buried studs and/or nuts, and use thumb-nuts and
thumb-screws to actually attach the bits. I'm assuming I want to
use brass or stainless hardware for corrosion resistance, and I
probably want to take some pains to match alloys.

McMaster is failing me for appropriate hardware. I'm finding
thumbscrews and thumb-nuts, but I'm not coming up with good
candidates for nuts that I can bury in the fiberglass. I'm
assuming that the case will be a two- part assembly that's glued
together; nuts that can be buried in one side and then captured in
the gluing-up process seem to be the best notion to me, but if
someone with actual experience has alternate suggestions, I'll
listen (I may not _take_ your suggestion, but I'll certainly
_listen_ and _think_ about it).

So -- suggestions? I'm probably wanting some 4-40 or 6-32-ish
sized ones, and some 10-24 (or 1/4-20). The bigger ones may work
better as studs, with thumb nuts. I'm pretty sure that I want nuts
for the little ones, unless that presents severe difficulties.

I think the type of thing you're looking for is shown here
http://www.ecfibreglasssupplies.co.u...-fasteners.asp
x

Exactly. More generally, the OP should ask his question in a
fiberglass boat building forum, as there are no doubt many practical
issues to be dealt with to get a reliable mechanical assembly.

Joe Gwinn


Boats frequently simply have nuts glassed in, or the fitting is bolted up
then the nut is glassed over. For greater reliabilty, wrap the nut or
bolt head in several turns of properly wetted out glassfibre tape and
wait till its reached a 'green' cure before glassing it into place. If
possible use epoxy resin. If glassing in a nut, *ALWAYS* use a brand new
bolt with an undamaged thread to locate it, with a very thin coat of a
suitable mold release (preferably one that will liquify if the bolt head
is heated e.g. parafin wax) on the thread.

The epoxy manufacturer "West Systems" has several articles and how to
guides for "hardware bonding".

With the appropriate reinforcement moulded in place, simply helicoiling
blind holes may be satisfactory.

Remember, stainless on stainless galls very easily so for frequently
removed fasteners, use a bronze nut on a stainless bolt or stud, with a
corrosion control grease.

--
Ian Malcolm. London, ENGLAND. (NEWSGROUP REPLY PREFERRED)
ianm[at]the[dash]malcolms[dot]freeserve[dot]co[dot]uk
[at]=@, [dash]=- & [dot]=. *Warning* HTML & 32K emails -- NUL

On Sat, 06 Jun 2015 12:48:41 +0700, John B.
wrote:

A comment. If you make "fiberglass" enclosures for outdoor use try to
have them made with "jell coat"

"Gel Coat" is the proper term.

On Sat, 06 Jun 2015 09:01:46 +0100, David Billington wrote:

On 05/06/15 23:04, Tim Wescott wrote:
I'm looking for product names to look for.

I'm working on an instrument for a customer, and he's having me do the
whole-system design. This means I'm out of my comfort zone and playing
with mechanical issues.

It needs a big outer case (well, four feet long, by nine inches by
two). I'm thinking of doing the outer case from fiberglass for a number
of reasons, not least of which because I'm familiar with its
characteristics, and the instrument is going to be used on or near
bodies of water including salt water.

I'll need to attach things to this outer case. My current thinking is
to used buried studs and/or nuts, and use thumb-nuts and thumb-screws
to actually attach the bits. I'm assuming I want to use brass or
stainless hardware for corrosion resistance, and I probably want to
take some pains to match alloys.

McMaster is failing me for appropriate hardware. I'm finding
thumbscrews and thumb-nuts, but I'm not coming up with good candidates
for nuts that I can bury in the fiberglass. I'm assuming that the case
will be a two- part assembly that's glued together; nuts that can be
buried in one side and then captured in the gluing-up process seem to
be the best notion to me, but if someone with actual experience has
alternate suggestions, I'll listen (I may not _take_ your suggestion,
but I'll certainly _listen_ and _think_ about it).

So -- suggestions? I'm probably wanting some 4-40 or 6-32-ish sized
ones, and some 10-24 (or 1/4-20). The bigger ones may work better as
studs, with thumb nuts. I'm pretty sure that I want nuts for the
little ones, unless that presents severe difficulties.

I think the type of thing you're looking for is shown here
http://www.ecfibreglasssupplies.co.u...fasteners.aspx

Thanks. This is an excellent start, but the UK part is a bit of a
barrier for this Oregon boy.

--
www.wescottdesign.com

On Fri, 05 Jun 2015 17:04:29 -0500, Tim Wescott wrote:

I'm looking for product names to look for.

I'm working on an instrument for a customer, and he's having me do the
whole-system design. This means I'm out of my comfort zone and playing
with mechanical issues.

It needs a big outer case (well, four feet long, by nine inches by two).
I'm thinking of doing the outer case from fiberglass for a number of
reasons, not least of which because I'm familiar with its
characteristics, and the instrument is going to be used on or near
bodies of water including salt water.

I'll need to attach things to this outer case. My current thinking is
to used buried studs and/or nuts, and use thumb-nuts and thumb-screws to
actually attach the bits. I'm assuming I want to use brass or stainless
hardware for corrosion resistance, and I probably want to take some
pains to match alloys.

McMaster is failing me for appropriate hardware. I'm finding
thumbscrews and thumb-nuts, but I'm not coming up with good candidates
for nuts that I can bury in the fiberglass. I'm assuming that the case
will be a two- part assembly that's glued together; nuts that can be
buried in one side and then captured in the gluing-up process seem to be
the best notion to me, but if someone with actual experience has
alternate suggestions, I'll listen (I may not _take_ your suggestion,
but I'll certainly _listen_ and _think_ about it).

So -- suggestions? I'm probably wanting some 4-40 or 6-32-ish sized
ones, and some 10-24 (or 1/4-20). The bigger ones may work better as
studs, with thumb nuts. I'm pretty sure that I want nuts for the little
ones, unless that presents severe difficulties.

Your responses made it clear that I left out an important part: the case
will be made with two or three fiberglass bits, glued together and
finished. I'm envisioning the fasteners going into the top piece, then
getting captured by the bottom piece, or perhaps some inner third piece.



--
www.wescottdesign.com

On Sat, 06 Jun 2015 15:19:30 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 06 Jun 2015 12:48:41 +0700, John B.
wrote:

A comment. If you make "fiberglass" enclosures for outdoor use try to
have them made with "jell coat"

"Gel Coat" is the proper term.

Yes, of course :-)

(but, how do you pronounce "jell" as in "jelly" and "gel" as in "gel
coat" ? :-)

--
cheers,

John B.

On 07/06/15 07:40, Tim Wescott wrote:
On Sat, 06 Jun 2015 09:01:46 +0100, David Billington wrote:

On 05/06/15 23:04, Tim Wescott wrote:
I'm looking for product names to look for.

I'm working on an instrument for a customer, and he's having me do the
whole-system design. This means I'm out of my comfort zone and playing
with mechanical issues.

It needs a big outer case (well, four feet long, by nine inches by
two). I'm thinking of doing the outer case from fiberglass for a number
of reasons, not least of which because I'm familiar with its
characteristics, and the instrument is going to be used on or near
bodies of water including salt water.

I'll need to attach things to this outer case. My current thinking is
to used buried studs and/or nuts, and use thumb-nuts and thumb-screws
to actually attach the bits. I'm assuming I want to use brass or
stainless hardware for corrosion resistance, and I probably want to
take some pains to match alloys.

McMaster is failing me for appropriate hardware. I'm finding
thumbscrews and thumb-nuts, but I'm not coming up with good candidates
for nuts that I can bury in the fiberglass. I'm assuming that the case
will be a two- part assembly that's glued together; nuts that can be
buried in one side and then captured in the gluing-up process seem to
be the best notion to me, but if someone with actual experience has
alternate suggestions, I'll listen (I may not _take_ your suggestion,
but I'll certainly _listen_ and _think_ about it).

So -- suggestions? I'm probably wanting some 4-40 or 6-32-ish sized
ones, and some 10-24 (or 1/4-20). The bigger ones may work better as
studs, with thumb nuts. I'm pretty sure that I want nuts for the
little ones, unless that presents severe difficulties.

I think the type of thing you're looking for is shown here
http://www.ecfibreglasssupplies.co.u...fasteners.aspx
Thanks. This is an excellent start, but the UK part is a bit of a
barrier for this Oregon boy.

It was just a pointer to the sort of things that are available. I've
dealt with that company and knew they sold them, I'm sure when you look
you can find lots of similar suppliers in the US.

On Sun, 07 Jun 2015 01:42:48 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Fri, 05 Jun 2015 17:04:29 -0500, Tim Wescott wrote:

I'm looking for product names to look for.

I'm working on an instrument for a customer, and he's having me do the
whole-system design. This means I'm out of my comfort zone and playing
with mechanical issues.

It needs a big outer case (well, four feet long, by nine inches by two).
I'm thinking of doing the outer case from fiberglass for a number of
reasons, not least of which because I'm familiar with its
characteristics, and the instrument is going to be used on or near
bodies of water including salt water.

I'll need to attach things to this outer case. My current thinking is
to used buried studs and/or nuts, and use thumb-nuts and thumb-screws to
actually attach the bits. I'm assuming I want to use brass or stainless
hardware for corrosion resistance, and I probably want to take some
pains to match alloys.

McMaster is failing me for appropriate hardware. I'm finding
thumbscrews and thumb-nuts, but I'm not coming up with good candidates
for nuts that I can bury in the fiberglass. I'm assuming that the case
will be a two- part assembly that's glued together; nuts that can be
buried in one side and then captured in the gluing-up process seem to be
the best notion to me, but if someone with actual experience has
alternate suggestions, I'll listen (I may not _take_ your suggestion,
but I'll certainly _listen_ and _think_ about it).

So -- suggestions? I'm probably wanting some 4-40 or 6-32-ish sized
ones, and some 10-24 (or 1/4-20). The bigger ones may work better as
studs, with thumb nuts. I'm pretty sure that I want nuts for the little
ones, unless that presents severe difficulties.

Your responses made it clear that I left out an important part: the case
will be made with two or three fiberglass bits, glued together and
finished. I'm envisioning the fasteners going into the top piece, then
getting captured by the bottom piece, or perhaps some inner third piece.

The usual scheme with molded fiberglass is to (hopefully) build a mold
that does everything in one fell swoop. Failing that, two parts that
fit together as they come out of the mold. Cutting and trimming little
bitty pieces and gluing them in and maybe coming back the next day to
laminate a little cloth over them to make them stronger is a time
consuming process and results in "things" that aren't all the same and
bits that fit "Thing #1" probably won't fit in "Thing #2".
--
cheers,

John B.

On 06-Jun-15 6:04 AM, Tim Wescott wrote:
I'm looking for product names to look for.

I'm working on an instrument for a customer, and he's having me do the
whole-system design. This means I'm out of my comfort zone and playing
with mechanical issues.

It needs a big outer case (well, four feet long, by nine inches by two).
I'm thinking of doing the outer case from fiberglass for a number of
reasons, not least of which because I'm familiar with its
characteristics, and the instrument is going to be used on or near bodies
of water including salt water.

I'll need to attach things to this outer case. My current thinking is to
used buried studs and/or nuts, and use thumb-nuts and thumb-screws to
actually attach the bits. I'm assuming I want to use brass or stainless
hardware for corrosion resistance, and I probably want to take some pains
to match alloys.

McMaster is failing me for appropriate hardware. I'm finding thumbscrews
and thumb-nuts, but I'm not coming up with good candidates for nuts that
I can bury in the fiberglass. I'm assuming that the case will be a two-
part assembly that's glued together; nuts that can be buried in one side
and then captured in the gluing-up process seem to be the best notion to
me, but if someone with actual experience has alternate suggestions, I'll
listen (I may not _take_ your suggestion, but I'll certainly _listen_ and
_think_ about it).

So -- suggestions? I'm probably wanting some 4-40 or 6-32-ish sized
ones, and some 10-24 (or 1/4-20). The bigger ones may work better as
studs, with thumb nuts. I'm pretty sure that I want nuts for the little
ones, unless that presents severe difficulties.



Sounds messy and nasty. How many are you making? Vacuum formed PVC and
option?

Could the instrument be made to fit inside existing PVC extrusion or
pipe profiles?

John B. wrote:
On Sat, 06 Jun 2015 15:19:30 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 06 Jun 2015 12:48:41 +0700, John B.
wrote:

A comment. If you make "fiberglass" enclosures for outdoor use try to
have them made with "jell coat"
"Gel Coat" is the proper term.

Yes, of course :-)

(but, how do you pronounce "jell" as in "jelly" and "gel" as in "gel
coat" ? :-)

--
cheers,

John B.


Well, Gel is actually a shortened version of the original. The
gelatinous coat, is the original term. Called that because it is a
thickened coating that you apply to the mold prior to starting the
actual lay-up process. It's job is to smooth the finish, provide color
and UV protection and to keep fibers from surfacing.

another oddball trivia item from the past....
--
Steve W.

On Sun, 07 Jun 2015 18:25:11 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Sun, 07 Jun 2015 01:42:48 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Fri, 05 Jun 2015 17:04:29 -0500, Tim Wescott wrote:

I'm looking for product names to look for.

I'm working on an instrument for a customer, and he's having me do the
whole-system design. This means I'm out of my comfort zone and
playing with mechanical issues.

It needs a big outer case (well, four feet long, by nine inches by
two).
I'm thinking of doing the outer case from fiberglass for a number of
reasons, not least of which because I'm familiar with its
characteristics, and the instrument is going to be used on or near
bodies of water including salt water.

I'll need to attach things to this outer case. My current thinking is
to used buried studs and/or nuts, and use thumb-nuts and thumb-screws
to actually attach the bits. I'm assuming I want to use brass or
stainless hardware for corrosion resistance, and I probably want to
take some pains to match alloys.

McMaster is failing me for appropriate hardware. I'm finding
thumbscrews and thumb-nuts, but I'm not coming up with good candidates
for nuts that I can bury in the fiberglass. I'm assuming that the
case will be a two- part assembly that's glued together; nuts that can
be buried in one side and then captured in the gluing-up process seem
to be the best notion to me, but if someone with actual experience has
alternate suggestions, I'll listen (I may not _take_ your suggestion,
but I'll certainly _listen_ and _think_ about it).

So -- suggestions? I'm probably wanting some 4-40 or 6-32-ish sized
ones, and some 10-24 (or 1/4-20). The bigger ones may work better as
studs, with thumb nuts. I'm pretty sure that I want nuts for the
little ones, unless that presents severe difficulties.

Your responses made it clear that I left out an important part: the case
will be made with two or three fiberglass bits, glued together and
finished. I'm envisioning the fasteners going into the top piece, then
getting captured by the bottom piece, or perhaps some inner third piece.

The usual scheme with molded fiberglass is to (hopefully) build a mold
that does everything in one fell swoop. Failing that, two parts that fit
together as they come out of the mold. Cutting and trimming little bitty
pieces and gluing them in and maybe coming back the next day to laminate
a little cloth over them to make them stronger is a time consuming
process and results in "things" that aren't all the same and bits that
fit "Thing #1" probably won't fit in "Thing #2".

Thank you very much for your expertise. My family has been making car
parts out of fiberglass since 1957, so we may actually have some clue of
how the stuff works.

--
www.wescottdesign.com

On Sun, 07 Jun 2015 16:32:40 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Sun, 07 Jun 2015 18:25:11 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Sun, 07 Jun 2015 01:42:48 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Fri, 05 Jun 2015 17:04:29 -0500, Tim Wescott wrote:

I'm looking for product names to look for.

I'm working on an instrument for a customer, and he's having me do the
whole-system design. This means I'm out of my comfort zone and
playing with mechanical issues.

It needs a big outer case (well, four feet long, by nine inches by
two).
I'm thinking of doing the outer case from fiberglass for a number of
reasons, not least of which because I'm familiar with its
characteristics, and the instrument is going to be used on or near
bodies of water including salt water.

I'll need to attach things to this outer case. My current thinking is
to used buried studs and/or nuts, and use thumb-nuts and thumb-screws
to actually attach the bits. I'm assuming I want to use brass or
stainless hardware for corrosion resistance, and I probably want to
take some pains to match alloys.

McMaster is failing me for appropriate hardware. I'm finding
thumbscrews and thumb-nuts, but I'm not coming up with good candidates
for nuts that I can bury in the fiberglass. I'm assuming that the
case will be a two- part assembly that's glued together; nuts that can
be buried in one side and then captured in the gluing-up process seem
to be the best notion to me, but if someone with actual experience has
alternate suggestions, I'll listen (I may not _take_ your suggestion,
but I'll certainly _listen_ and _think_ about it).

So -- suggestions? I'm probably wanting some 4-40 or 6-32-ish sized
ones, and some 10-24 (or 1/4-20). The bigger ones may work better as
studs, with thumb nuts. I'm pretty sure that I want nuts for the
little ones, unless that presents severe difficulties.

Your responses made it clear that I left out an important part: the case
will be made with two or three fiberglass bits, glued together and
finished. I'm envisioning the fasteners going into the top piece, then
getting captured by the bottom piece, or perhaps some inner third piece.

The usual scheme with molded fiberglass is to (hopefully) build a mold
that does everything in one fell swoop. Failing that, two parts that fit
together as they come out of the mold. Cutting and trimming little bitty
pieces and gluing them in and maybe coming back the next day to laminate
a little cloth over them to make them stronger is a time consuming
process and results in "things" that aren't all the same and bits that
fit "Thing #1" probably won't fit in "Thing #2".

Thank you very much for your expertise. My family has been making car
parts out of fiberglass since 1957, so we may actually have some clue of
how the stuff works.

And had you told us that at the beginning I wouldn't have offered the
suggestion :-)
--
cheers,

John B.

On 08-Jun-15 5:32 AM, Tim Wescott wrote:
On Sun, 07 Jun 2015 18:25:11 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Sun, 07 Jun 2015 01:42:48 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Fri, 05 Jun 2015 17:04:29 -0500, Tim Wescott wrote:

I'm looking for product names to look for.

I'm working on an instrument for a customer, and he's having me do the
whole-system design. This means I'm out of my comfort zone and
playing with mechanical issues.

It needs a big outer case (well, four feet long, by nine inches by
two).
I'm thinking of doing the outer case from fiberglass for a number of
reasons, not least of which because I'm familiar with its
characteristics, and the instrument is going to be used on or near
bodies of water including salt water.

I'll need to attach things to this outer case. My current thinking is
to used buried studs and/or nuts, and use thumb-nuts and thumb-screws
to actually attach the bits. I'm assuming I want to use brass or
stainless hardware for corrosion resistance, and I probably want to
take some pains to match alloys.

McMaster is failing me for appropriate hardware. I'm finding
thumbscrews and thumb-nuts, but I'm not coming up with good candidates
for nuts that I can bury in the fiberglass. I'm assuming that the
case will be a two- part assembly that's glued together; nuts that can
be buried in one side and then captured in the gluing-up process seem
to be the best notion to me, but if someone with actual experience has
alternate suggestions, I'll listen (I may not _take_ your suggestion,
but I'll certainly _listen_ and _think_ about it).

So -- suggestions? I'm probably wanting some 4-40 or 6-32-ish sized
ones, and some 10-24 (or 1/4-20). The bigger ones may work better as
studs, with thumb nuts. I'm pretty sure that I want nuts for the
little ones, unless that presents severe difficulties.

Your responses made it clear that I left out an important part: the case
will be made with two or three fiberglass bits, glued together and
finished. I'm envisioning the fasteners going into the top piece, then
getting captured by the bottom piece, or perhaps some inner third piece.

The usual scheme with molded fiberglass is to (hopefully) build a mold
that does everything in one fell swoop. Failing that, two parts that fit
together as they come out of the mold. Cutting and trimming little bitty
pieces and gluing them in and maybe coming back the next day to laminate
a little cloth over them to make them stronger is a time consuming
process and results in "things" that aren't all the same and bits that
fit "Thing #1" probably won't fit in "Thing #2".

Thank you very much for your expertise. My family has been making car
parts out of fiberglass since 1957, so we may actually have some clue of
how the stuff works.



A bit snarky Tim?

On Mon, 08 Jun 2015 07:42:52 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Sun, 07 Jun 2015 16:32:40 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Sun, 07 Jun 2015 18:25:11 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Sun, 07 Jun 2015 01:42:48 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Fri, 05 Jun 2015 17:04:29 -0500, Tim Wescott wrote:

I'm looking for product names to look for.

I'm working on an instrument for a customer, and he's having me do
the whole-system design. This means I'm out of my comfort zone and
playing with mechanical issues.

It needs a big outer case (well, four feet long, by nine inches by
two).
I'm thinking of doing the outer case from fiberglass for a number of
reasons, not least of which because I'm familiar with its
characteristics, and the instrument is going to be used on or near
bodies of water including salt water.

I'll need to attach things to this outer case. My current thinking
is to used buried studs and/or nuts, and use thumb-nuts and
thumb-screws to actually attach the bits. I'm assuming I want to
use brass or stainless hardware for corrosion resistance, and I
probably want to take some pains to match alloys.

McMaster is failing me for appropriate hardware. I'm finding
thumbscrews and thumb-nuts, but I'm not coming up with good
candidates for nuts that I can bury in the fiberglass. I'm assuming
that the case will be a two- part assembly that's glued together;
nuts that can be buried in one side and then captured in the
gluing-up process seem to be the best notion to me, but if someone
with actual experience has alternate suggestions, I'll listen (I may
not _take_ your suggestion, but I'll certainly _listen_ and _think_
about it).

So -- suggestions? I'm probably wanting some 4-40 or 6-32-ish sized
ones, and some 10-24 (or 1/4-20). The bigger ones may work better
as studs, with thumb nuts. I'm pretty sure that I want nuts for the
little ones, unless that presents severe difficulties.

Your responses made it clear that I left out an important part: the
case will be made with two or three fiberglass bits, glued together
and finished. I'm envisioning the fasteners going into the top piece,
then getting captured by the bottom piece, or perhaps some inner third
piece.

The usual scheme with molded fiberglass is to (hopefully) build a mold
that does everything in one fell swoop. Failing that, two parts that
fit together as they come out of the mold. Cutting and trimming little
bitty pieces and gluing them in and maybe coming back the next day to
laminate a little cloth over them to make them stronger is a time
consuming process and results in "things" that aren't all the same and
bits that fit "Thing #1" probably won't fit in "Thing #2".

Thank you very much for your expertise. My family has been making car
parts out of fiberglass since 1957, so we may actually have some clue of
how the stuff works.

And had you told us that at the beginning I wouldn't have offered the
suggestion :-)

Sorry for snapping at you.



--
www.wescottdesign.com

On Mon, 08 Jun 2015 08:52:07 +0800, just_me wrote:

On 08-Jun-15 5:32 AM, Tim Wescott wrote:
On Sun, 07 Jun 2015 18:25:11 +0700, John B. wrote:

On Sun, 07 Jun 2015 01:42:48 -0500, Tim Wescott
wrote:

On Fri, 05 Jun 2015 17:04:29 -0500, Tim Wescott wrote:

I'm looking for product names to look for.

I'm working on an instrument for a customer, and he's having me do
the whole-system design. This means I'm out of my comfort zone and
playing with mechanical issues.

It needs a big outer case (well, four feet long, by nine inches by
two).
I'm thinking of doing the outer case from fiberglass for a number of
reasons, not least of which because I'm familiar with its
characteristics, and the instrument is going to be used on or near
bodies of water including salt water.

I'll need to attach things to this outer case. My current thinking
is to used buried studs and/or nuts, and use thumb-nuts and
thumb-screws to actually attach the bits. I'm assuming I want to
use brass or stainless hardware for corrosion resistance, and I
probably want to take some pains to match alloys.

McMaster is failing me for appropriate hardware. I'm finding
thumbscrews and thumb-nuts, but I'm not coming up with good
candidates for nuts that I can bury in the fiberglass. I'm assuming
that the case will be a two- part assembly that's glued together;
nuts that can be buried in one side and then captured in the
gluing-up process seem to be the best notion to me, but if someone
with actual experience has alternate suggestions, I'll listen (I may
not _take_ your suggestion, but I'll certainly _listen_ and _think_
about it).

So -- suggestions? I'm probably wanting some 4-40 or 6-32-ish sized
ones, and some 10-24 (or 1/4-20). The bigger ones may work better
as studs, with thumb nuts. I'm pretty sure that I want nuts for the
little ones, unless that presents severe difficulties.

Your responses made it clear that I left out an important part: the
case will be made with two or three fiberglass bits, glued together
and finished. I'm envisioning the fasteners going into the top
piece, then getting captured by the bottom piece, or perhaps some
inner third piece.

The usual scheme with molded fiberglass is to (hopefully) build a mold
that does everything in one fell swoop. Failing that, two parts that
fit together as they come out of the mold. Cutting and trimming little
bitty pieces and gluing them in and maybe coming back the next day to
laminate a little cloth over them to make them stronger is a time
consuming process and results in "things" that aren't all the same and
bits that fit "Thing #1" probably won't fit in "Thing #2".

Thank you very much for your expertise. My family has been making car
parts out of fiberglass since 1957, so we may actually have some clue
of how the stuff works.



A bit snarky Tim?

Yes. Apologies tendered to John.



--
www.wescottdesign.com

On Sun, 07 Jun 2015 20:18:12 +0800, just_me wrote:

On 06-Jun-15 6:04 AM, Tim Wescott wrote:
I'm looking for product names to look for.

I'm working on an instrument for a customer, and he's having me do the
whole-system design. This means I'm out of my comfort zone and playing
with mechanical issues.

It needs a big outer case (well, four feet long, by nine inches by
two). I'm thinking of doing the outer case from fiberglass for a number
of reasons, not least of which because I'm familiar with its
characteristics, and the instrument is going to be used on or near
bodies of water including salt water.

I'll need to attach things to this outer case. My current thinking is
to used buried studs and/or nuts, and use thumb-nuts and thumb-screws
to actually attach the bits. I'm assuming I want to use brass or
stainless hardware for corrosion resistance, and I probably want to
take some pains to match alloys.

McMaster is failing me for appropriate hardware. I'm finding
thumbscrews and thumb-nuts, but I'm not coming up with good candidates
for nuts that I can bury in the fiberglass. I'm assuming that the case
will be a two- part assembly that's glued together; nuts that can be
buried in one side and then captured in the gluing-up process seem to
be the best notion to me, but if someone with actual experience has
alternate suggestions, I'll listen (I may not _take_ your suggestion,
but I'll certainly _listen_ and _think_ about it).

So -- suggestions? I'm probably wanting some 4-40 or 6-32-ish sized
ones, and some 10-24 (or 1/4-20). The bigger ones may work better as
studs, with thumb nuts. I'm pretty sure that I want nuts for the
little ones, unless that presents severe difficulties.



Sounds messy and nasty. How many are you making? Vacuum formed PVC and
option?

Could the instrument be made to fit inside existing PVC extrusion or
pipe profiles?

I don't feel that PVC will be strong enough -- I want something that'll
withstand multiple drops from waist height.

I'm hiring out the messy and nasty parts!

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

On Monday, June 8, 2015 at 10:57:36 AM UTC-7, Tim Wescott wrote:
On Sun, 07 Jun 2015 20:18:12 +0800, just_me wrote:

On 06-Jun-15 6:04 AM, Tim Wescott wrote:
I'm looking for product names to look for.

I'm working on an instrument for a customer, and he's having me do the
whole-system design. This means I'm out of my comfort zone and playing
with mechanical issues.

It needs a big outer case (well, four feet long, by nine inches by
two). I'm thinking of doing the outer case from fiberglass for a number
of reasons, not least of which because I'm familiar with its
characteristics, and the instrument is going to be used on or near
bodies of water including salt water.

I'll need to attach things to this outer case. My current thinking is
to used buried studs and/or nuts, and use thumb-nuts and thumb-screws
to actually attach the bits. I'm assuming I want to use brass or
stainless hardware for corrosion resistance, and I probably want to
take some pains to match alloys.

McMaster is failing me for appropriate hardware. I'm finding
thumbscrews and thumb-nuts, but I'm not coming up with good candidates
for nuts that I can bury in the fiberglass. I'm assuming that the case
will be a two- part assembly that's glued together; nuts that can be
buried in one side and then captured in the gluing-up process seem to
be the best notion to me, but if someone with actual experience has
alternate suggestions, I'll listen (I may not _take_ your suggestion,
but I'll certainly _listen_ and _think_ about it).

So -- suggestions? I'm probably wanting some 4-40 or 6-32-ish sized
ones, and some 10-24 (or 1/4-20). The bigger ones may work better as
studs, with thumb nuts. I'm pretty sure that I want nuts for the
little ones, unless that presents severe difficulties.



Sounds messy and nasty. How many are you making? Vacuum formed PVC and
option?

Could the instrument be made to fit inside existing PVC extrusion or
pipe profiles?

I don't feel that PVC will be strong enough -- I want something that'll
withstand multiple drops from waist height.

I'm hiring out the messy and nasty parts!

--

Tim Wescott
Wescott Design Services
http://www.wescottdesign.com

Water jet or laser cut parts from a 0.25 in thick sheet of Lexan or commercial fiberglass sheet One can design in alignment features, internal PCB board mounts. connecter holes and holes for tread inserts.

Glue the it together with acrylic adhesive.

I have used this for a couple of projects. They came out very nice.

First one I used 1/8 P&O steel. We call it the Iron Amp but it been going strong for 15 years.

Dan