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Default Pulling headstock spindle on lathe

My lathe is throwing oil at me from behind the chuck. I like this
lathe a lot. I've been using it for a couple of decades. I'd like to
get that oil slinging problem fixed.

There are no seals in the headstock; it uses a "labyrinth" slinger
method of oil management.

One guy I talked to asked if I ever turn plastic. (Yes, I do, fairly
often) He said he'd seen this befo fine delryn or nylon swarf
somehow gets in behind the chuck and plugs an internal drain hole.

The lathe is an Enterprise 1550 made by Mysore Kirloskar Electric in
India.

(This is probably where Larry Jaques insensitively and rudely asks
what I did to my Kirloskar to make it sore.)

It (the lathe, not my Kirloskar) looks a lot like a Clausing
Colchester, and I think that the maker had a relationship with
Colchester at one time back in the early '70s. I've been told that
this method of headstock oil management is used on some Colchesters.

I located the nuts that preload the spindle bearings, made a spanner
and got them off. The gears on the spindle in the headstock slide
freely, now that grub screws and circlips have been removed. From
looking at the drawings (I have the manual) I can see no reason why
the D1-4 camlock spindle shouldn't just slide out toward the tailstock
so I can get in there to clean out a plugged drain hole. But I can't
get the damned spindle to budge. I've pried on it and hit it a few
times with a big brass hammer.

I thought I had a professional on deck to come help me with this but
it appears that he's flaked on me.

Any informed or experienced ideas or suggestions? I really don't want
to barf up the spindle bearings.
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Default Pulling headstock spindle on lathe

On Wed, 03 Jun 2015 20:56:17 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

My lathe is throwing oil at me from behind the chuck. I like this
lathe a lot. I've been using it for a couple of decades. I'd like to
get that oil slinging problem fixed.

There are no seals in the headstock; it uses a "labyrinth" slinger
method of oil management.

One guy I talked to asked if I ever turn plastic. (Yes, I do, fairly
often) He said he'd seen this befo fine delryn or nylon swarf
somehow gets in behind the chuck and plugs an internal drain hole.

The lathe is an Enterprise 1550 made by Mysore Kirloskar Electric in
India.

(This is probably where Larry Jaques insensitively and rudely asks
what I did to my Kirloskar to make it sore.)


Moi? har! I'd likely wonder why Oskar was curled, too.


It (the lathe, not my Kirloskar) looks a lot like a Clausing
Colchester, and I think that the maker had a relationship with
Colchester at one time back in the early '70s. I've been told that
this method of headstock oil management is used on some Colchesters.

I located the nuts that preload the spindle bearings, made a spanner
and got them off. The gears on the spindle in the headstock slide
freely, now that grub screws and circlips have been removed. From
looking at the drawings (I have the manual) I can see no reason why
the D1-4 camlock spindle shouldn't just slide out toward the tailstock
so I can get in there to clean out a plugged drain hole. But I can't
get the damned spindle to budge. I've pried on it and hit it a few
times with a big brass hammer.


Lathe? Isn't that the horizontal kinda doohickey with the spinny part
on the left? Is there any way to get an air hose inside to attempt
blowing out the swarf from inside the gearbox? Some of those old
boxes had some extra room in them, while others were completely
stuffed. I'm guessing it doesn't have the split case where you can
lift the whole top half out of the way. That would make it too easy.
Chucks can get really wound up on the spindles, so sometimes it takes
a whole lotta torque to unwind 'em. Have you tried strapping
something firmly to the chuck and whoppin' on that? (I'm sorry if I'm
getting too technical for ya.)

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...manual-223545/
Jeeze, bigarse beastie, innit?

And make bloody well sure that there isn't a retaining screw in the
very center of the chuck, like a drill chuck. That'd turn ya pink.
DAMHIKT


I thought I had a professional on deck to come help me with this but
it appears that he's flaked on me.


Condolences.


Any informed or experienced ideas or suggestions? I really don't want
to barf up the spindle bearings.


Good call. Heaven forfend that happening!

--
It takes as much energy to wish as to plan.
--Eleanor Roosevelt
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Default Pulling headstock spindle on lathe

On Wed, 03 Jun 2015 19:52:26 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:



Lathe? Isn't that the horizontal kinda doohickey with the spinny part
on the left?


Yes. It's a machine used to convert round bar stock to small
cylindrical scrap very efficiently.

Is there any way to get an air hose inside to attempt
blowing out the swarf from inside the gearbox? Some of those old
boxes had some extra room in them, while others were completely
stuffed.


The whole works is inside the gearbox, behind a big gear that's less
than an inch from the chuck-side bulkhead. The drain hole goes from
just under the bearing down to below the level of the oil, slanting
from right to left going down. If I could blow it out from the bottom
I'd blow the swarf right into the bearing. That wouldn't harm the
bearing if it's delryn swarf, but it'd eventually get washed right
back into the drain hole.

I'm guessing it doesn't have the split case where you can
lift the whole top half out of the way. That would make it too easy.


Correct and yeah.


Chucks can get really wound up on the spindles, so sometimes it takes
a whole lotta torque to unwind 'em.

I know what you mean. I have a 9" Logan that has a 1-1/2 x 8 threaded
spindle like a South Bend, had a chuck stuck on that one a couple of
times. Engage back gear, stick 2 x 4 thru the chuck jaws ...

There is no chuck mounted. It's a D1-4 camlock spindle, not a threaded
one. Chucks can't get wound on tight.

Have you tried strapping
something firmly to the chuck and whoppin' on that? (I'm sorry if I'm
getting too technical for ya.)


I'm keeping up OK so far. I guess that would be easy enough to do
since the chucks are on the floor, but I'm not sure how that'd
help... G

http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...manual-223545/
Jeeze, bigarse beastie, innit?


A 9" it ain't -- but it's every bit as precise as my 9" Logan and a
hell of a lot more rigid. Chatter? Wha's dat? Don' get no chatter
on this machine, uh UH ol' Son. It's not quite as "feely" as a 9"
Logan or SB but I have no problem making little teensy parts on it.

I inheirited it from Mary's dad. Well, actually, from her mom when
her dad died. I still think about old Bernie every time I use that
machine, which was several times a week when it was working right. He
was a good friend and fishin' bud.

And make bloody well sure that there isn't a retaining screw in the
very center of the chuck, like a drill chuck. That'd turn ya pink.
DAMHIKT


Left hand screw at that, right? Been there, done that, got the tee
shirt.


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Default Pulling headstock spindle on lathe

Larry Jaques fired this volley in
:

And make bloody well sure that there isn't a retaining screw in the
very center of the chuck, like a drill chuck.


Huh? Exactly how would one run rod stock through the head in that
configuration?

Um... Larry... L A T H E --- not "Consumer hand drill".

Lloyd
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Default Pulling headstock spindle on lathe

On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 00:16:37 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Wed, 03 Jun 2015 19:52:26 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:



Lathe? Isn't that the horizontal kinda doohickey with the spinny part
on the left?


Yes. It's a machine used to convert round bar stock to small
cylindrical scrap very efficiently.


I see them do that to wood, as well. Odd choice of hobbies, I must
say.


Is there any way to get an air hose inside to attempt
blowing out the swarf from inside the gearbox? Some of those old
boxes had some extra room in them, while others were completely
stuffed.


The whole works is inside the gearbox, behind a big gear that's less
than an inch from the chuck-side bulkhead. The drain hole goes from
just under the bearing down to below the level of the oil, slanting
from right to left going down. If I could blow it out from the bottom
I'd blow the swarf right into the bearing. That wouldn't harm the
bearing if it's delryn swarf, but it'd eventually get washed right
back into the drain hole.


Arrrgh! Before I get any more old arn I'm going to think about the
ease of (or lack thereof) rebuildability of said arn in the process.


I'm guessing it doesn't have the split case where you can
lift the whole top half out of the way. That would make it too easy.


Correct and yeah.


I physically cringed when I saw that pic. It's total rebuild time,
Don.


Chucks can get really wound up on the spindles, so sometimes it takes
a whole lotta torque to unwind 'em.

I know what you mean. I have a 9" Logan that has a 1-1/2 x 8 threaded
spindle like a South Bend, had a chuck stuck on that one a couple of
times. Engage back gear, stick 2 x 4 thru the chuck jaws ...


I've seen the cover off and a tubafore sticking in the gears, too.
Whatever it takes to multiply torque and solidify the machine prior to
that simple twisting motion. And after all that, you may hear a soft
and simple tink to indicate that it broke loose inside. That's such
a satisfying sound, innit?


There is no chuck mounted. It's a D1-4 camlock spindle, not a threaded
one. Chucks can't get wound on tight.

Have you tried strapping
something firmly to the chuck and whoppin' on that? (I'm sorry if I'm
getting too technical for ya.)


I'm keeping up OK so far. I guess that would be easy enough to do
since the chucks are on the floor, but I'm not sure how that'd
help... G


http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb...manual-223545/
Jeeze, bigarse beastie, innit?


A 9" it ain't -- but it's every bit as precise as my 9" Logan and a
hell of a lot more rigid. Chatter? Wha's dat? Don' get no chatter
on this machine, uh UH ol' Son. It's not quite as "feely" as a 9"
Logan or SB but I have no problem making little teensy parts on it.


That's very good.


I inheirited it from Mary's dad. Well, actually, from her mom when
her dad died. I still think about old Bernie every time I use that
machine, which was several times a week when it was working right. He
was a good friend and fishin' bud.


Well, g'luck with it.

And make bloody well sure that there isn't a retaining screw in the
very center of the chuck, like a drill chuck. That'd turn ya pink.
DAMHIKT


Left hand screw at that, right? Been there, done that, got the tee
shirt.


Those are always fun, too. But chucks are almost always RHT, lest
they spin off whenever you throw the ON switch. The engineers got
that one right. I had a friend in high school who had a tiny old
British car. (can't think of the make right now) 3 Whitworth lug nuts
held each wheel on, and they were LHT on the left side of the car.

--
It takes as much energy to wish as to plan.
--Eleanor Roosevelt


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Default Pulling headstock spindle on lathe

On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 05:50:51 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Larry Jaques fired this volley in
:

And make bloody well sure that there isn't a retaining screw in the
very center of the chuck, like a drill chuck.


Huh? Exactly how would one run rod stock through the head in that
configuration?

Um... Larry... L A T H E --- not "Consumer hand drill".


Details, details... g


--
It takes as much energy to wish as to plan.
--Eleanor Roosevelt
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Default Pulling headstock spindle on lathe

On Wed, 03 Jun 2015 20:56:17 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

My lathe is throwing oil at me from behind the chuck. I like this
lathe a lot. I've been using it for a couple of decades. I'd like to
get that oil slinging problem fixed.

There are no seals in the headstock; it uses a "labyrinth" slinger
method of oil management.

One guy I talked to asked if I ever turn plastic. (Yes, I do, fairly
often) He said he'd seen this befo fine delryn or nylon swarf
somehow gets in behind the chuck and plugs an internal drain hole.

The lathe is an Enterprise 1550 made by Mysore Kirloskar Electric in
India.

(This is probably where Larry Jaques insensitively and rudely asks
what I did to my Kirloskar to make it sore.)

It (the lathe, not my Kirloskar) looks a lot like a Clausing
Colchester, and I think that the maker had a relationship with
Colchester at one time back in the early '70s. I've been told that
this method of headstock oil management is used on some Colchesters.

I located the nuts that preload the spindle bearings, made a spanner
and got them off. The gears on the spindle in the headstock slide
freely, now that grub screws and circlips have been removed. From
looking at the drawings (I have the manual) I can see no reason why
the D1-4 camlock spindle shouldn't just slide out toward the tailstock
so I can get in there to clean out a plugged drain hole. But I can't
get the damned spindle to budge. I've pried on it and hit it a few
times with a big brass hammer.

I thought I had a professional on deck to come help me with this but
it appears that he's flaked on me.

Any informed or experienced ideas or suggestions? I really don't want
to barf up the spindle bearings.

Greetings Don,
Since you have removed the nut (probably no. 6 in your manual) at the
rear of the spindle, the one that is located outside of the gearbox on
the left side under a cover, and nothing moves, then you may need to
remove the bearing retainer on the outside of the gearbox on the right
side. This retainer is held on with 3 cap screws and is located
directly behind the D1 mounting face. It seems like I had to do this
once on a larger lathe of similar design.
Eric
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Default Pulling headstock spindle on lathe

On 6/3/2015 9:56 PM, Don Foreman wrote:
... I've pried on it and hit it a few
times with a big brass hammer.
...


I tore down my lathe headstock once. I forget why.

Unbeknownst to me, the spindle pulley had sheared its key, jamming it on
the spindle. Many whacks with a brass hammer got it off, without too
much damage. Afterwards I noticed that the left end had been deformed
by the brass hammer! A vivid lesson in brass work hardening.
Fortunately, the deformation didn't affect anything but my pride.

So, be careful with that brass hammer. (I now only use lead hammers on
machines.)

Bob

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Default Pulling headstock spindle on lathe

On Wednesday, June 3, 2015 at 10:11:49 PM UTC-7, Don Foreman wrote:
On Wed, 03 Jun 2015 19:52:26 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:


Is there any way to get an air hose inside to attempt
blowing out the swarf from inside the gearbox? Some of those old
boxes had some extra room in them, while others were completely
stuffed.


... If I could blow it out from the bottom
I'd blow the swarf right into the bearing. That wouldn't harm the
bearing if it's delryn swarf, but it'd eventually get washed right
back into the drain hole.


There might be an alternative to teardown; sulfuric acid (sometimes available
as drain cleaner) might attack the plastic well enough to just
rinse a clog away, assuming you can get SOME flow to the blockage.
It won't attack machine parts much, just organics (rinse afterward with your
dirtiest ready-for-recycling oil).

But, takeapart is SO instructive, maybe that's the best longterm solution.
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Default Pulling headstock spindle on lathe

On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 06:41:15 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:



I physically cringed when I saw that pic. It's total rebuild time,
Don.


What pic?

The lathe works fine, just throws a little oil. Doesn't need a
rebuild, just needs an oil passage cleaned out.


Chucks can get really wound up on the spindles, so sometimes it takes
a whole lotta torque to unwind 'em.

I know what you mean. I have a 9" Logan that has a 1-1/2 x 8 threaded
spindle like a South Bend, had a chuck stuck on that one a couple of
times. Engage back gear, stick 2 x 4 thru the chuck jaws ...


I've seen the cover off and a tubafore sticking in the gears, too.
Whatever it takes to multiply torque and solidify the machine prior to
that simple twisting motion. And after all that, you may hear a soft
and simple tink to indicate that it broke loose inside. That's such
a satisfying sound, innit?



Left hand screw at that, right? Been there, done that, got the tee
shirt.


Those are always fun, too. But chucks are almost always RHT, lest
they spin off whenever you throw the ON switch. The engineers got
that one right. I had a friend in high school who had a tiny old
British car. (can't think of the make right now) 3 Whitworth lug nuts
held each wheel on, and they were LHT on the left side of the car.


The chucks screw on a right hand thread, but the socket head cap
screws that hold them on is often a left hand thread -- so such
inertial torque as might loosen the chuck serves to tighten the bolt.
Example: Milwaukee electric drill
http://www.milwaukeetool.com/power-tools/corded/3002-1


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Default Pulling headstock spindle on lathe

On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 09:13:38 -0700, wrote:

On Wed, 03 Jun 2015 20:56:17 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

My lathe is throwing oil at me from behind the chuck. I like this
lathe a lot. I've been using it for a couple of decades. I'd like to
get that oil slinging problem fixed.

There are no seals in the headstock; it uses a "labyrinth" slinger
method of oil management.

One guy I talked to asked if I ever turn plastic. (Yes, I do, fairly
often) He said he'd seen this befo fine delryn or nylon swarf
somehow gets in behind the chuck and plugs an internal drain hole.

The lathe is an Enterprise 1550 made by Mysore Kirloskar Electric in
India.

(This is probably where Larry Jaques insensitively and rudely asks
what I did to my Kirloskar to make it sore.)

It (the lathe, not my Kirloskar) looks a lot like a Clausing
Colchester, and I think that the maker had a relationship with
Colchester at one time back in the early '70s. I've been told that
this method of headstock oil management is used on some Colchesters.

I located the nuts that preload the spindle bearings, made a spanner
and got them off. The gears on the spindle in the headstock slide
freely, now that grub screws and circlips have been removed. From
looking at the drawings (I have the manual) I can see no reason why
the D1-4 camlock spindle shouldn't just slide out toward the tailstock
so I can get in there to clean out a plugged drain hole. But I can't
get the damned spindle to budge. I've pried on it and hit it a few
times with a big brass hammer.

I thought I had a professional on deck to come help me with this but
it appears that he's flaked on me.

Any informed or experienced ideas or suggestions? I really don't want
to barf up the spindle bearings.

Greetings Don,
Since you have removed the nut (probably no. 6 in your manual) at the
rear of the spindle, the one that is located outside of the gearbox on
the left side under a cover, and nothing moves, then you may need to
remove the bearing retainer on the outside of the gearbox on the right
side. This retainer is held on with 3 cap screws and is located
directly behind the D1 mounting face. It seems like I had to do this
once on a larger lathe of similar design.
Eric


A cover directly behind the D1 mounting face is indeed secured with 3
cap screws -- but there's no way to get it past the D1 mounting face.
It's captive there until the spindle is removed. Clearance between
the back of the D1 face and the wall of the gearbox is about 0.078".
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Default Pulling headstock spindle on lathe

On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 13:16:16 -0400, Bob Engelhardt
wrote:

On 6/3/2015 9:56 PM, Don Foreman wrote:
... I've pried on it and hit it a few
times with a big brass hammer.
...


I tore down my lathe headstock once. I forget why.

Unbeknownst to me, the spindle pulley had sheared its key, jamming it on
the spindle. Many whacks with a brass hammer got it off, without too
much damage. Afterwards I noticed that the left end had been deformed
by the brass hammer! A vivid lesson in brass work hardening.
Fortunately, the deformation didn't affect anything but my pride.

So, be careful with that brass hammer. (I now only use lead hammers on
machines.)

Bob


Roger that!

I thought I'd try a few whacks hoping to get lucky. Didn't happen.
Now I think the only "safe" approach is hydraulics.
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Default Pulling headstock spindle on lathe

On Wednesday, June 3, 2015 at 9:50:44 PM UTC-4, Don Foreman wrote:
My lathe is throwing oil at me from behind the chuck. I like this
lathe a lot. I've been using it for a couple of decades. I'd like to
get that oil slinging problem fixed.

There are no seals in the headstock; it uses a "labyrinth" slinger
method of oil management.

One guy I talked to asked if I ever turn plastic. (Yes, I do, fairly
often) He said he'd seen this befo fine delryn or nylon swarf
somehow gets in behind the chuck and plugs an internal drain hole.

The lathe is an Enterprise 1550 made by Mysore Kirloskar Electric in
India.

(This is probably where Larry Jaques insensitively and rudely asks
what I did to my Kirloskar to make it sore.)

It (the lathe, not my Kirloskar) looks a lot like a Clausing
Colchester, and I think that the maker had a relationship with
Colchester at one time back in the early '70s. I've been told that
this method of headstock oil management is used on some Colchesters.

I located the nuts that preload the spindle bearings, made a spanner
and got them off. The gears on the spindle in the headstock slide
freely, now that grub screws and circlips have been removed. From
looking at the drawings (I have the manual) I can see no reason why
the D1-4 camlock spindle shouldn't just slide out toward the tailstock
so I can get in there to clean out a plugged drain hole. But I can't
get the damned spindle to budge. I've pried on it and hit it a few
times with a big brass hammer.

I thought I had a professional on deck to come help me with this but
it appears that he's flaked on me.

Any informed or experienced ideas or suggestions? I really don't want
to barf up the spindle bearings.


Not meaning to be trite about this, but unless there is some other reason for dismantling the head, or unless there is a huge amount of oil being slung, why not just bend up some sheet metal (or a beer can) to catch the oil before it hits you? Life is way too short to spend it trying to make old machines perfect IMHO.
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On Fri, 05 Jun 2015 22:33:31 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 09:13:38 -0700, wrote:

On Wed, 03 Jun 2015 20:56:17 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

My lathe is throwing oil at me from behind the chuck. I like this
lathe a lot. I've been using it for a couple of decades. I'd like to
get that oil slinging problem fixed.

There are no seals in the headstock; it uses a "labyrinth" slinger
method of oil management.

One guy I talked to asked if I ever turn plastic. (Yes, I do, fairly
often) He said he'd seen this befo fine delryn or nylon swarf
somehow gets in behind the chuck and plugs an internal drain hole.

The lathe is an Enterprise 1550 made by Mysore Kirloskar Electric in
India.

(This is probably where Larry Jaques insensitively and rudely asks
what I did to my Kirloskar to make it sore.)

It (the lathe, not my Kirloskar) looks a lot like a Clausing
Colchester, and I think that the maker had a relationship with
Colchester at one time back in the early '70s. I've been told that
this method of headstock oil management is used on some Colchesters.

I located the nuts that preload the spindle bearings, made a spanner
and got them off. The gears on the spindle in the headstock slide
freely, now that grub screws and circlips have been removed. From
looking at the drawings (I have the manual) I can see no reason why
the D1-4 camlock spindle shouldn't just slide out toward the tailstock
so I can get in there to clean out a plugged drain hole. But I can't
get the damned spindle to budge. I've pried on it and hit it a few
times with a big brass hammer.

I thought I had a professional on deck to come help me with this but
it appears that he's flaked on me.

Any informed or experienced ideas or suggestions? I really don't want
to barf up the spindle bearings.

Greetings Don,
Since you have removed the nut (probably no. 6 in your manual) at the
rear of the spindle, the one that is located outside of the gearbox on
the left side under a cover, and nothing moves, then you may need to
remove the bearing retainer on the outside of the gearbox on the right
side. This retainer is held on with 3 cap screws and is located
directly behind the D1 mounting face. It seems like I had to do this
once on a larger lathe of similar design.
Eric


A cover directly behind the D1 mounting face is indeed secured with 3
cap screws -- but there's no way to get it past the D1 mounting face.
It's captive there until the spindle is removed. Clearance between
the back of the D1 face and the wall of the gearbox is about 0.078".

I know Don. Once the cover is loose the spindle, with the cover and
bearing, slides out. Then access to a retainer is possible and the
spindle is drawn from the headstock bearing. This is how I did it on a
smiliar lathe years ago and it looks like your lathe is the same, just
smaller.
Eric
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fired this volley in
:

I know Don. Once the cover is loose the spindle, with the cover and
bearing, slides out.


It only slides out if the inner race of the 'back' bearing (the one on
the end you're trying to push IN) isn't frozen to the spindle.

I've taken the spindles out of some very old lathes. Those with Timken
bearings instead of bushings almost always resist moving that inner race
out to the end... they're corroded-on -- which they would not be if they
had been moved and adjusted for tension occasionally. But most folks
never touch 'spindle tension' once the lathe works once.

There's almost always a ring clamp or some other device to prevent the
spindle from 'migrating' in the inner races. Sometimes it's only a
shoulder on the spindle. Sometimes it's a ring-clamp, set-screw into the
spindle, etc. Remember that just slipping a spindle through two bearings
won't hold it laterally.

Keep in mind that 'only' shoulders on the spindle cannot possibly
accommodate bearing wear unless the outer races are somehow adjustable.
And that's not usually the case. It's usually the case that there's a
jam-nut or 'jam bushing' working against the inner race to keep it and
the rollers in intimate contact with the outer race.

This is most often a key-slotted nut that engages only the inner race,
pushing it to close the distance between the two ends.

And THAT means that there must be a thrust device at BOTH ends to keep
the spindle from moving back and fro in the inner races.

Lloyd


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Default Pulling headstock spindle on lathe

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com fired this volley in
. 4.170:

And THAT means that there must be a thrust device at BOTH ends to keep
the spindle from moving back and fro in the inner races.


PS... and that thrust device is often the nuts themselves... not to leave
that out.

Lloyd
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Default Pulling headstock spindle on lathe

On 06/06/15 04:33, Don Foreman wrote:
On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 09:13:38 -0700, wrote:

On Wed, 03 Jun 2015 20:56:17 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

My lathe is throwing oil at me from behind the chuck. I like this
lathe a lot. I've been using it for a couple of decades. I'd like to
get that oil slinging problem fixed.

There are no seals in the headstock; it uses a "labyrinth" slinger
method of oil management.

One guy I talked to asked if I ever turn plastic. (Yes, I do, fairly
often) He said he'd seen this befo fine delryn or nylon swarf
somehow gets in behind the chuck and plugs an internal drain hole.

The lathe is an Enterprise 1550 made by Mysore Kirloskar Electric in
India.

(This is probably where Larry Jaques insensitively and rudely asks
what I did to my Kirloskar to make it sore.)

It (the lathe, not my Kirloskar) looks a lot like a Clausing
Colchester, and I think that the maker had a relationship with
Colchester at one time back in the early '70s. I've been told that
this method of headstock oil management is used on some Colchesters.

I located the nuts that preload the spindle bearings, made a spanner
and got them off. The gears on the spindle in the headstock slide
freely, now that grub screws and circlips have been removed. From
looking at the drawings (I have the manual) I can see no reason why
the D1-4 camlock spindle shouldn't just slide out toward the tailstock
so I can get in there to clean out a plugged drain hole. But I can't
get the damned spindle to budge. I've pried on it and hit it a few
times with a big brass hammer.

I thought I had a professional on deck to come help me with this but
it appears that he's flaked on me.

Any informed or experienced ideas or suggestions? I really don't want
to barf up the spindle bearings.

Greetings Don,
Since you have removed the nut (probably no. 6 in your manual) at the
rear of the spindle, the one that is located outside of the gearbox on
the left side under a cover, and nothing moves, then you may need to
remove the bearing retainer on the outside of the gearbox on the right
side. This retainer is held on with 3 cap screws and is located
directly behind the D1 mounting face. It seems like I had to do this
once on a larger lathe of similar design.
Eric

A cover directly behind the D1 mounting face is indeed secured with 3
cap screws -- but there's no way to get it past the D1 mounting face.
It's captive there until the spindle is removed. Clearance between
the back of the D1 face and the wall of the gearbox is about 0.078".

Sounds like my Harrison M300, from looking at the parts diagram that
ring has to have the fasteners removed before the spindle can be removed
as it clamps the outer race of the front bearing in place and the inner
race won't pass through it, fortunately the retaining screws for the
ring lie outside the OD of the D1-4 spindle mount on the M300 so are
easy to access. I have had the spindle out of my Kerry 1140 and it is
the same but the socket screws are just accessible in the locking ring
grooves of the L00 retaining ring, same front bearing arrangement but
different spindle chuck mount.
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Default Pulling headstock spindle on lathe

On Wed, 03 Jun 2015 20:56:17 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

My lathe is throwing oil at me from behind the chuck. I like this
lathe a lot. I've been using it for a couple of decades. I'd like to
get that oil slinging problem fixed.

There are no seals in the headstock; it uses a "labyrinth" slinger
method of oil management.

One guy I talked to asked if I ever turn plastic. (Yes, I do, fairly
often) He said he'd seen this befo fine delryn or nylon swarf
somehow gets in behind the chuck and plugs an internal drain hole.

The lathe is an Enterprise 1550 made by Mysore Kirloskar Electric in
India.

(This is probably where Larry Jaques insensitively and rudely asks
what I did to my Kirloskar to make it sore.)

It (the lathe, not my Kirloskar) looks a lot like a Clausing
Colchester, and I think that the maker had a relationship with
Colchester at one time back in the early '70s. I've been told that
this method of headstock oil management is used on some Colchesters.

I located the nuts that preload the spindle bearings, made a spanner
and got them off. The gears on the spindle in the headstock slide
freely, now that grub screws and circlips have been removed. From
looking at the drawings (I have the manual) I can see no reason why
the D1-4 camlock spindle shouldn't just slide out toward the tailstock
so I can get in there to clean out a plugged drain hole. But I can't
get the damned spindle to budge. I've pried on it and hit it a few
times with a big brass hammer.

I thought I had a professional on deck to come help me with this but
it appears that he's flaked on me.

Any informed or experienced ideas or suggestions? I really don't want
to barf up the spindle bearings.


Check to see where the oil drains from that labyrinth and blow high
pressure air into it. I had to do that with an old Clausing 13x40
that I had here for a while. It came out of a plastics shop.

Gunner
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Default Pulling headstock spindle on lathe

On Sat, 06 Jun 2015 10:57:22 -0700, wrote:

On Fri, 05 Jun 2015 22:33:31 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

On Thu, 04 Jun 2015 09:13:38 -0700,
wrote:

On Wed, 03 Jun 2015 20:56:17 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

My lathe is throwing oil at me from behind the chuck. I like this
lathe a lot. I've been using it for a couple of decades. I'd like to
get that oil slinging problem fixed.

There are no seals in the headstock; it uses a "labyrinth" slinger
method of oil management.

One guy I talked to asked if I ever turn plastic. (Yes, I do, fairly
often) He said he'd seen this befo fine delryn or nylon swarf
somehow gets in behind the chuck and plugs an internal drain hole.

The lathe is an Enterprise 1550 made by Mysore Kirloskar Electric in
India.

(This is probably where Larry Jaques insensitively and rudely asks
what I did to my Kirloskar to make it sore.)

It (the lathe, not my Kirloskar) looks a lot like a Clausing
Colchester, and I think that the maker had a relationship with
Colchester at one time back in the early '70s. I've been told that
this method of headstock oil management is used on some Colchesters.

I located the nuts that preload the spindle bearings, made a spanner
and got them off. The gears on the spindle in the headstock slide
freely, now that grub screws and circlips have been removed. From
looking at the drawings (I have the manual) I can see no reason why
the D1-4 camlock spindle shouldn't just slide out toward the tailstock
so I can get in there to clean out a plugged drain hole. But I can't
get the damned spindle to budge. I've pried on it and hit it a few
times with a big brass hammer.

I thought I had a professional on deck to come help me with this but
it appears that he's flaked on me.

Any informed or experienced ideas or suggestions? I really don't want
to barf up the spindle bearings.
Greetings Don,
Since you have removed the nut (probably no. 6 in your manual) at the
rear of the spindle, the one that is located outside of the gearbox on
the left side under a cover, and nothing moves, then you may need to
remove the bearing retainer on the outside of the gearbox on the right
side. This retainer is held on with 3 cap screws and is located
directly behind the D1 mounting face. It seems like I had to do this
once on a larger lathe of similar design.
Eric


A cover directly behind the D1 mounting face is indeed secured with 3
cap screws -- but there's no way to get it past the D1 mounting face.
It's captive there until the spindle is removed. Clearance between
the back of the D1 face and the wall of the gearbox is about 0.078".

I know Don. Once the cover is loose the spindle, with the cover and
bearing, slides out. Then access to a retainer is possible and the
spindle is drawn from the headstock bearing. This is how I did it on a
smiliar lathe years ago and it looks like your lathe is the same, just
smaller.
Eric


I've removed the three cap screws. Spindle still won't move.
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Default Pulling headstock spindle on lathe

On Sat, 06 Jun 2015 13:35:57 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

fired this volley in
:

I know Don. Once the cover is loose the spindle, with the cover and
bearing, slides out.


It only slides out if the inner race of the 'back' bearing (the one on
the end you're trying to push IN) isn't frozen to the spindle.

I've taken the spindles out of some very old lathes. Those with Timken
bearings instead of bushings almost always resist moving that inner race
out to the end... they're corroded-on -- which they would not be if they
had been moved and adjusted for tension occasionally. But most folks
never touch 'spindle tension' once the lathe works once.

There's almost always a ring clamp or some other device to prevent the
spindle from 'migrating' in the inner races. Sometimes it's only a
shoulder on the spindle. Sometimes it's a ring-clamp, set-screw into the
spindle, etc. Remember that just slipping a spindle through two bearings
won't hold it laterally.


By "laterally" do you mean in a direction parallel to or along the
spindle axis?

Keep in mind that 'only' shoulders on the spindle cannot possibly
accommodate bearing wear unless the outer races are somehow adjustable.
And that's not usually the case. It's usually the case that there's a
jam-nut or 'jam bushing' working against the inner race to keep it and
the rollers in intimate contact with the outer race.

This is most often a key-slotted nut that engages only the inner race,
pushing it to close the distance between the two ends.

And THAT means that there must be a thrust device at BOTH ends to keep
the spindle from moving back and fro in the inner races.

Lloyd


Let's see if I understand what you're saying. According to the
drawing, there are tapered roller bearings on each end, with the
tapers facing in opposite directions, much like the axel on a
trailer. The drawing indicates that there is a shoulder on the
spindle that engages the inner race of the chuck-side bearing. The
outer race of that bearing bears against the cast headstock housing.

On the other end of the spindle, the left-hand end from the operator's
perspective, the outer race of that bearing bears against the housing.
The inner race is in contact with a spacer or washer that appears to
be ground on both sides. Behind that is a thrust nut, another spacer,
and another nut that I'm assuming is a jam nut.

The directions of the tapers in the bearings is such that when the
spindle nut is tightened, putting axial force on the inner race of the
left-hand bearing with the spindle in tension, the races press against
the rollers -- so wear could be taken up by adjusting the thrust nut.

Am I reading you right?

I strongly doubt that wear is an issue here. The performance of the
lathe has been and is entirely satisfactory except for the nuisance
oil leak.

I could believe that there might be some corrosion between spindle and
an inner race -- or, it could just be a very snug fit. I would expect
that a very snug fit would be necessary to ensure precision
performance, so the spindle is always, always in radial contact with
the inner races.

A local professional has returned my call on Friday. I missed it, but
I'll try him tomorrow to see what advice he may have. I am extremely
reluctant to pound on anything with a big hammer, but it may be that
the next step must be to see if a bit of hydraulic push might get
things moving without breaking anything.

Meanwhile, I went fishin' today. Caught my supper and a very pleasant
afternoon with an old colleague and friend. He got skunked. Hey, he
should take me fishin' more often, might learn something! That, in
fact, was part of the objective for today's outing. Well, I found and
showed him a "spot" on his lake that he didn't know about, showed him
what works for me, but learning to catch finicky largemouth bass with
a plastic worm isn't done in a day or a week. It requires an
investment of time in the boat. (oh dear!)

When doing my solitary research I use only non-polluting,
conservation-minded, lead-free grenades...


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Default Pulling headstock spindle on lathe

On Sat, 6 Jun 2015 06:01:33 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote:

On Wednesday, June 3, 2015 at 9:50:44 PM UTC-4, Don Foreman wrote:
My lathe is throwing oil at me from behind the chuck. I like this
lathe a lot. I've been using it for a couple of decades. I'd like to
get that oil slinging problem fixed.

There are no seals in the headstock; it uses a "labyrinth" slinger
method of oil management.

One guy I talked to asked if I ever turn plastic. (Yes, I do, fairly
often) He said he'd seen this befo fine delryn or nylon swarf
somehow gets in behind the chuck and plugs an internal drain hole.

The lathe is an Enterprise 1550 made by Mysore Kirloskar Electric in
India.

(This is probably where Larry Jaques insensitively and rudely asks
what I did to my Kirloskar to make it sore.)

It (the lathe, not my Kirloskar) looks a lot like a Clausing
Colchester, and I think that the maker had a relationship with
Colchester at one time back in the early '70s. I've been told that
this method of headstock oil management is used on some Colchesters.

I located the nuts that preload the spindle bearings, made a spanner
and got them off. The gears on the spindle in the headstock slide
freely, now that grub screws and circlips have been removed. From
looking at the drawings (I have the manual) I can see no reason why
the D1-4 camlock spindle shouldn't just slide out toward the tailstock
so I can get in there to clean out a plugged drain hole. But I can't
get the damned spindle to budge. I've pried on it and hit it a few
times with a big brass hammer.

I thought I had a professional on deck to come help me with this but
it appears that he's flaked on me.

Any informed or experienced ideas or suggestions? I really don't want
to barf up the spindle bearings.


Not meaning to be trite about this, but unless there is some other reason for dismantling the head, or unless there is a huge amount of oil being slung, why not just bend up some sheet metal (or a beer can) to catch the oil before it hits you? Life is way too short to spend it trying to make old machines perfect IMHO.


Others have expressed similar opinion, humble and otherwise. One
guy, a retired millwright, after looking at my situation asked, "How
old are you, Don?" I told him. Not quite as old as he, as it turns
out. He grinned and asked, "Don, how much oil do you think that
thing can sling in the time you have left?"

We laughed, adjourned for lunch, and then shared a very pleasant
afternoon shooting at his range.

If all else fails, I could indeed contrive an oil shield and
collector. Such a kludge might offend my delicate sensibilities for
awhile, but I agree with you that it would be a rational approach. But
I'd really like to have my lathe work like it should because it has
been such an enjoyable machine to have and use for many years. It's
been one of the "capability machines" that have enabled me to
realize what I might devise in my mind into actual physical reality in
real metal or plastic or whatever. The trash can enjoys my
misadventures as much as I do. There's always Mark II ... and Mark
III ... and so on. More time in the shop? Oh... dear!

I do NOT want a 3D printer; I spent a lot of enjoyable time teaching
myself to machine and weld, and I continue to thoroughly enjoy those
activities.

Nothing I make is nearly as important as the joy I get from making it
or another gets from having it made just for him or her.

Fortunately, being retired and finally very happily adjusted to being
a widower and movin' on with good life, I can be and do whatever and
however the hell I want -- which means that nothing says I have to be
rational in everything (or anything) I do with my days. Only thing I
must do is enjoy them. Having fun is job 1, nothing is urgent.






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On Sat, 06 Jun 2015 14:39:56 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Wed, 03 Jun 2015 20:56:17 -0500, Don Foreman
wrote:

My lathe is throwing oil at me from behind the chuck. I like this
lathe a lot. I've been using it for a couple of decades. I'd like to
get that oil slinging problem fixed.

There are no seals in the headstock; it uses a "labyrinth" slinger
method of oil management.

One guy I talked to asked if I ever turn plastic. (Yes, I do, fairly
often) He said he'd seen this befo fine delryn or nylon swarf
somehow gets in behind the chuck and plugs an internal drain hole.

The lathe is an Enterprise 1550 made by Mysore Kirloskar Electric in
India.

(This is probably where Larry Jaques insensitively and rudely asks
what I did to my Kirloskar to make it sore.)

It (the lathe, not my Kirloskar) looks a lot like a Clausing
Colchester, and I think that the maker had a relationship with
Colchester at one time back in the early '70s. I've been told that
this method of headstock oil management is used on some Colchesters.

I located the nuts that preload the spindle bearings, made a spanner
and got them off. The gears on the spindle in the headstock slide
freely, now that grub screws and circlips have been removed. From
looking at the drawings (I have the manual) I can see no reason why
the D1-4 camlock spindle shouldn't just slide out toward the tailstock
so I can get in there to clean out a plugged drain hole. But I can't
get the damned spindle to budge. I've pried on it and hit it a few
times with a big brass hammer.

I thought I had a professional on deck to come help me with this but
it appears that he's flaked on me.

Any informed or experienced ideas or suggestions? I really don't want
to barf up the spindle bearings.


Check to see where the oil drains from that labyrinth and blow high
pressure air into it. I had to do that with an old Clausing 13x40
that I had here for a while. It came out of a plastics shop.

Gunner



I did check that possibility here. Can't see that passage on the
extant assembled machine but I can see it on the drawings. That
drain hole looks to me to be inaccessable without moving the spindle
at least an inch or two to the right. There is NO way to get in
there with a bent tube from inside the headstock; big gear in the way.
That gear is now loose and slides freely, but not far before it hits
a projection in the headstock casting.

Perhaps a dentist crosstrained as a proctologist (or vicey versey) who
can do rear-entry root canals could do this ...

How did you do that without moving the spindle?


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On 08-Jun-15 12:53 PM, Don Foreman wrote:
On Sat, 6 Jun 2015 06:01:33 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote:



Snipped...

Fortunately, being retired and finally very happily adjusted to being
a widower and movin' on with good life, I can be and do whatever and
however the hell I want -- which means that nothing says I have to be
rational in everything (or anything) I do with my days. Only thing I
must do is enjoy them. Having fun is job 1, nothing is urgent.



Great to read the above Don and know you are traveling well.

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On Mon, 08 Jun 2015 16:35:52 +0800, just_me wrote:

On 08-Jun-15 12:53 PM, Don Foreman wrote:
On Sat, 6 Jun 2015 06:01:33 -0700 (PDT), rangerssuck
wrote:



Snipped...

Fortunately, being retired and finally very happily adjusted to being
a widower and movin' on with good life, I can be and do whatever and
however the hell I want -- which means that nothing says I have to be
rational in everything (or anything) I do with my days. Only thing I
must do is enjoy them. Having fun is job 1, nothing is urgent.


Great to read the above Don and know you are traveling well.


+1

--
Worry is a misuse of imagination.
-- Dan Zadra
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