Metalworking (rec.crafts.metalworking) Discuss various aspects of working with metal, such as machining, welding, metal joining, screwing, casting, hardening/tempering, blacksmithing/forging, spinning and hammer work, sheet metal work.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,888
Default Installing a ball bearing

I'm making a set of wheels to roll a Harbor Freight electric hoist on
an overhead rail of 3" C channels. The wheels are nearly a copy of the
ones on the HF 1 ton Trolley which I turned down to fit into the
channel.
http://www.harborfreight.com/1-ton-p...ley-97392.html

I need two trolleys to suspend a log from both ends when I move it in
or out of the storage shed, to avoid having to climb dangerously on
the pile to operate one manual lever hoist in the center.

Both the originals and mine use 6203 ball bearings, 40mm OD x 17mm ID
x 12mm thick. On the HF trolley they are a fairly light press fit on
the OD and slide loosely on the axle pin.

For something that won't be used much is there a problem if a bearing
fits loosely in the 40mm bore? This isn't the same as an old bearing
seizing and spinning millions of times in an electric motor. A
shoulder and a snap ring on the axle will keep the bearing nearly
bottomed in its recess, if friction doesn't. The taper on the wheels
and in the channel will force the wheel and bearing against the axle
shoulder under load.

My 1" - 2" inside bore mike resolves to only 0.001" and don't want to
beat up on the bearings by trying to pound them out by the inner race
if a trial fit is too tight.

tia
-jsw


  #2   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,632
Default Installing a ball bearing

"Jim Wilkins" fired this volley in news:mk89h1$mft
:

For something that won't be used much is there a problem if a bearing
fits loosely in the 40mm bore?


Not TOO much of a problem, so long as you have a 'keeper' to prevent it's
migrating out of its cavity. That, and so long as the speed is kept low,
it won't damage the bearing to 'roll' on its outer periphery.

But (cough!) why would you be pounding on the INNER race to remove a
bearing? The access hole at the bottom of the cavity (through which the
shaft will penetrate) can be only a few-thou smaller than the outer race,
and it will be retained on that end just fine. Then you'd be able to use
a proper outer race-sized drift to remove it, were the fit too snug.

Lloyd
  #3   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 3,115
Default Installing a ball bearing

Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
"Jim Wilkins" fired this volley in
news:mk89h1$mft :

For something that won't be used much is there a problem if a bearing
fits loosely in the 40mm bore?


Not TOO much of a problem, so long as you have a 'keeper' to prevent
it's migrating out of its cavity. That, and so long as the speed is
kept low, it won't damage the bearing to 'roll' on its outer
periphery.

But (cough!) why would you be pounding on the INNER race to remove a
bearing? The access hole at the bottom of the cavity (through which
the shaft will penetrate) can be only a few-thou smaller than the
outer race, and it will be retained on that end just fine. Then
you'd be able to use a proper outer race-sized drift to remove it,
were the fit too snug.

Lloyd


Or he can make the bearing a slip fit and use some bearing retaining
loctite to keep the outer race stationary .

--
Snag


  #4   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,888
Default Installing a ball bearing

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 4.170...
"Jim Wilkins" fired this volley in
news:mk89h1$mft
:

For something that won't be used much is there a problem if a
bearing
fits loosely in the 40mm bore?


Not TOO much of a problem, so long as you have a 'keeper' to prevent
it's
migrating out of its cavity. That, and so long as the speed is kept
low,
it won't damage the bearing to 'roll' on its outer periphery.

But (cough!) why would you be pounding on the INNER race to remove a
bearing? The access hole at the bottom of the cavity (through which
the
shaft will penetrate) can be only a few-thou smaller than the outer
race,
and it will be retained on that end just fine. Then you'd be able
to use
a proper outer race-sized drift to remove it, were the fit too snug.

Lloyd


The reason is because I'm copying the existing wheels closely in
hopefully better metal instead of re-engineering a heavily loaded
design I don't fully understand. The HF wheels have an 18mm center
hole that catches a snap ring on the 17mm axle. Presumably the solid
metal from 18mm out to 40mm stiffens the wheel rim against distortion.

I could drill three holes for push-out pins and use one wheel to hold
and guide them while pressing the bearing out of another.

-jsw


  #5   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,803
Default Installing a ball bearing

On Fri, 29 May 2015 06:01:20 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
.4.170...
"Jim Wilkins" fired this volley in
news:mk89h1$mft
:

For something that won't be used much is there a problem if a
bearing
fits loosely in the 40mm bore?


Not TOO much of a problem, so long as you have a 'keeper' to prevent
it's
migrating out of its cavity. That, and so long as the speed is kept
low,
it won't damage the bearing to 'roll' on its outer periphery.

But (cough!) why would you be pounding on the INNER race to remove a
bearing? The access hole at the bottom of the cavity (through which
the
shaft will penetrate) can be only a few-thou smaller than the outer
race,
and it will be retained on that end just fine. Then you'd be able
to use
a proper outer race-sized drift to remove it, were the fit too snug.

Lloyd


The reason is because I'm copying the existing wheels closely in
hopefully better metal instead of re-engineering a heavily loaded
design I don't fully understand. The HF wheels have an 18mm center
hole that catches a snap ring on the 17mm axle. Presumably the solid
metal from 18mm out to 40mm stiffens the wheel rim against distortion.

I could drill three holes for push-out pins and use one wheel to hold
and guide them while pressing the bearing out of another.

-jsw


If the concern is that you don't trust your mics, remember that you
have the bearing that's going in the bored hole. Treat the mic as a
comparator and the bearing as your standard. Ideally you want a line
to line fit to at most a couple tenths interference. You can
interpolate the graduations closely enough for that. I'd be more
concerned about the machine used for boring than the mics.

On the other hand, if you just want to be sure the bearing goes in OK
the first time you can always heat the wheels if the fit after boring
is too tight. Assuming the wheels are steel, a 300F temp rise will
open the bore .003. If you can get within .001, you should be good.
You do need to plan and work carefully when it's time to drop the
bearing into the hot wheel - the last thing you want is to get the
bearing cocked and jammed in the bore. It doesn't take long for the
bearing to warm up and expand.

--
Ned Simmons


  #6   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,025
Default Installing a ball bearing

On Thu, 28 May 2015 19:50:25 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

I'm making a set of wheels to roll a Harbor Freight electric hoist on
an overhead rail of 3" C channels. The wheels are nearly a copy of the
ones on the HF 1 ton Trolley which I turned down to fit into the
channel.
http://www.harborfreight.com/1-ton-p...ley-97392.html

I need two trolleys to suspend a log from both ends when I move it in
or out of the storage shed, to avoid having to climb dangerously on
the pile to operate one manual lever hoist in the center.


Excellent idea.


Both the originals and mine use 6203 ball bearings, 40mm OD x 17mm ID
x 12mm thick. On the HF trolley they are a fairly light press fit on
the OD and slide loosely on the axle pin.

For something that won't be used much is there a problem if a bearing
fits loosely in the 40mm bore? This isn't the same as an old bearing
seizing and spinning millions of times in an electric motor. A
shoulder and a snap ring on the axle will keep the bearing nearly
bottomed in its recess, if friction doesn't. The taper on the wheels
and in the channel will force the wheel and bearing against the axle
shoulder under load.

My 1" - 2" inside bore mike resolves to only 0.001" and don't want to
beat up on the bearings by trying to pound them out by the inner race
if a trial fit is too tight.


Because you won't have any side loading (to speak of) acting on them,
it shouldn't be a problem. The taper should keep things together just
fine.

--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus
  #7   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,025
Default Installing a ball bearing

On Thu, 28 May 2015 19:50:25 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

I'm making a set of wheels to roll a Harbor Freight electric hoist on
an overhead rail of 3" C channels. The wheels are nearly a copy of the
ones on the HF 1 ton Trolley which I turned down to fit into the
channel.
http://www.harborfreight.com/1-ton-p...ley-97392.html

I need two trolleys to suspend a log from both ends when I move it in
or out of the storage shed, to avoid having to climb dangerously on
the pile to operate one manual lever hoist in the center.

Both the originals and mine use 6203 ball bearings, 40mm OD x 17mm ID
x 12mm thick. On the HF trolley they are a fairly light press fit on
the OD and slide loosely on the axle pin.

For something that won't be used much is there a problem if a bearing
fits loosely in the 40mm bore?


I forgot to say that you can firm up a race in a seat by tapping a
center punch several times (equidistant) around the seat ID. The
dimples will help hold the race but not be high enough to deform it.
I've done this on disc and drum brake hubs for decades, all without a
single failure or return.

--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus
  #8   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,025
Default Installing a ball bearing

On Thu, 28 May 2015 18:59:40 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

"Jim Wilkins" fired this volley in news:mk89h1$mft
:

For something that won't be used much is there a problem if a bearing
fits loosely in the 40mm bore?


Not TOO much of a problem, so long as you have a 'keeper' to prevent it's
migrating out of its cavity. That, and so long as the speed is kept low,
it won't damage the bearing to 'roll' on its outer periphery.

But (cough!) why would you be pounding on the INNER race to remove a
bearing? The access hole at the bottom of the cavity (through which the
shaft will penetrate) can be only a few-thou smaller than the outer race,
and it will be retained on that end just fine. Then you'd be able to use
a proper outer race-sized drift to remove it, were the fit too snug.


Obviously, there are no keepers or access holes. Chiwanese Tech,
y'know?

--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus
  #9   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,632
Default Installing a ball bearing

Larry Jaques fired this volley in
:

Obviously, there are no keepers or access holes. Chiwanese Tech,
y'know?


??? He's MAKING THE WHEELS HIMSELF! Such features don't just 'come' like
gravy in the pan. One MAKES them.

Lloyd
  #10   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,888
Default Installing a ball bearing

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 29 May 2015 06:01:20 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


If the concern is that you don't trust your mics, remember that you
have the bearing that's going in the bored hole. Treat the mic as a
comparator and the bearing as your standard. Ideally you want a line
to line fit to at most a couple tenths interference. You can
interpolate the graduations closely enough for that. I'd be more
concerned about the machine used for boring than the mics.

On the other hand, if you just want to be sure the bearing goes in
OK
the first time you can always heat the wheels if the fit after
boring
is too tight. Assuming the wheels are steel, a 300F temp rise will
open the bore .003. If you can get within .001, you should be good.
You do need to plan and work carefully when it's time to drop the
bearing into the hot wheel - the last thing you want is to get the
bearing cocked and jammed in the bore. It doesn't take long for the
bearing to warm up and expand.

--
Ned Simmons


I practiced measuring the setting ring. This Enco 508-00150730 inside
mike doesn't have a good enough feel to repeat to better than half a
thousandth.

The machine is my 1965 South Bend 10L, with a 3/4" boring bar that I
cut and ground a 5/16" square HHS bit for. It's more rigid than any
other boring bar I've used so this is my first go at boring a smooth
hole to a more precise diameter than Oilite requires.

On outside diameters that I can measure to 0.0001" the lathe can shave
a few tenths with a freshly honed bit.

-jsw




  #11   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 4,632
Default Installing a ball bearing

"Jim Wilkins" fired this volley in news:mk9oh7$54k$1
@dont-email.me:

On outside diameters that I can measure to 0.0001" the lathe can shave
a few tenths with a freshly honed bit.


So, turn a "setting standard" that IS the couple of tenths smaller than the
bearing, and use that to feel out your hole as you enlarge it a half-thou
at a time (after boring to a nominal under-sized dimension).

Lloyd
  #12   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,888
Default Installing a ball bearing

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 28 May 2015 19:50:25 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


For something that won't be used much is there a problem if a
bearing
fits loosely in the 40mm bore?


I forgot to say that you can firm up a race in a seat by tapping a
center punch several times (equidistant) around the seat ID. The
dimples will help hold the race but not be high enough to deform it.
I've done this on disc and drum brake hubs for decades, all without
a
single failure or return.


My usual method is to bore with a coarse enough feed to leave ridges
that the pressed-in part deforms, so there's more compliance than if
the bore were smooth. In this case the steady (=1300 Lbs) or shock
(=?) load might further compress them until the bearing is loose.

It's not a critical fit but it does make a good exercise to improve my
precision machining skill.

-jsw


  #13   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,888
Default Installing a ball bearing

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 4.170...
Larry Jaques fired this volley
in
:

Obviously, there are no keepers or access holes. Chiwanese Tech,
y'know?


??? He's MAKING THE WHEELS HIMSELF! Such features don't just 'come'
like
gravy in the pan. One MAKES them.

Lloyd


I suspect that the HF trolley is a "value-engineered" copy of a
well-designed US original, perhaps this one:
http://www.chdist.com/product/cm-ser...aspx?var=92253

-jsw


  #14   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 1,803
Default Installing a ball bearing

On Fri, 29 May 2015 09:12:36 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 29 May 2015 06:01:20 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


If the concern is that you don't trust your mics, remember that you
have the bearing that's going in the bored hole. Treat the mic as a
comparator and the bearing as your standard. Ideally you want a line
to line fit to at most a couple tenths interference. You can
interpolate the graduations closely enough for that. I'd be more
concerned about the machine used for boring than the mics.

On the other hand, if you just want to be sure the bearing goes in
OK
the first time you can always heat the wheels if the fit after
boring
is too tight. Assuming the wheels are steel, a 300F temp rise will
open the bore .003. If you can get within .001, you should be good.
You do need to plan and work carefully when it's time to drop the
bearing into the hot wheel - the last thing you want is to get the
bearing cocked and jammed in the bore. It doesn't take long for the
bearing to warm up and expand.

--
Ned Simmons


I practiced measuring the setting ring. This Enco 508-00150730 inside
mike doesn't have a good enough feel to repeat to better than half a
thousandth.

The machine is my 1965 South Bend 10L, with a 3/4" boring bar that I
cut and ground a 5/16" square HHS bit for. It's more rigid than any
other boring bar I've used so this is my first go at boring a smooth
hole to a more precise diameter than Oilite requires.

On outside diameters that I can measure to 0.0001" the lathe can shave
a few tenths with a freshly honed bit.

-jsw


I missed the fact that you're using an inside mic. I have a couple of
that style, but rarely use them. For this sort of thing I'm more
comfortable with a telescoping gauge and outside mic, thus my
suggestion to use the bearing as a standard. It seems to me the
telescoping gauge gives a better feel than the inside mics and makes a
direct comparison between the bearing and bore easier.

--
Ned Simmons
  #15   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,888
Default Installing a ball bearing

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
. 4.170...
"Jim Wilkins" fired this volley in
news:mk9oh7$54k$1
@dont-email.me:

On outside diameters that I can measure to 0.0001" the lathe can
shave
a few tenths with a freshly honed bit.


So, turn a "setting standard" that IS the couple of tenths smaller
than the
bearing, and use that to feel out your hole as you enlarge it a
half-thou
at a time (after boring to a nominal under-sized dimension).

Lloyd


My question really resolves to what that feel should be, if I can't
measure the ID to 0.0001" to match the interference fit from a table.
Your previous response suggests that a drop-in fit would be fine as
long as the axle shoulder and snap ring keep the wheel and bearing
together. Subsequent machining on the other side will be much easier
if I can remove the bearing and chuck within its recess rather than by
the rim.

Maybe while doing it I'll learn how to bore and measure accurately
enough for a future job where the bearing can't be allowed to slip.

-jsw




  #16   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,888
Default Installing a ball bearing

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 29 May 2015 09:12:36 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:



I missed the fact that you're using an inside mic. I have a couple
of
that style, but rarely use them. For this sort of thing I'm more
comfortable with a telescoping gauge and outside mic, thus my
suggestion to use the bearing as a standard. It seems to me the
telescoping gauge gives a better feel than the inside mics and makes
a
direct comparison between the bearing and bore easier.

--
Ned Simmons


Thanks. I've had trouble with telescoping gauges previously, probably
because I didn't have a rigid enough boring bar to get a smooth
finish. I just measured the inside mike's setting ring with one and
hit 1.0000" on the first try.

-jsw


  #17   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,399
Default Installing a ball bearing

On Fri, 29 May 2015 10:45:35 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
.4.170...
"Jim Wilkins" fired this volley in
news:mk9oh7$54k$1
@dont-email.me:

On outside diameters that I can measure to 0.0001" the lathe can
shave
a few tenths with a freshly honed bit.


So, turn a "setting standard" that IS the couple of tenths smaller
than the
bearing, and use that to feel out your hole as you enlarge it a
half-thou
at a time (after boring to a nominal under-sized dimension).

Lloyd


My question really resolves to what that feel should be, if I can't
measure the ID to 0.0001" to match the interference fit from a table.
Your previous response suggests that a drop-in fit would be fine as
long as the axle shoulder and snap ring keep the wheel and bearing
together. Subsequent machining on the other side will be much easier
if I can remove the bearing and chuck within its recess rather than by
the rim.

Maybe while doing it I'll learn how to bore and measure accurately
enough for a future job where the bearing can't be allowed to slip.

-jsw


Got a magnetic base that you can put a dial indicator on?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MIGHTY-MAG-U...-/111425028749

Got a decent indicator?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Univ-Dial-In...-/371333036647

Put the indicator on the mag base, stick the whole thing on your lathe
compound and use it when you start getting within .100

Hell..you can even use a standard thousands dial indicator if you dont
need to go to tenths.

Its not..not rocket science guys.

I even do this on the HLV-H.

Gunner


  #18   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,399
Default Installing a ball bearing

On Fri, 29 May 2015 11:00:46 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 29 May 2015 09:12:36 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:



I missed the fact that you're using an inside mic. I have a couple
of
that style, but rarely use them. For this sort of thing I'm more
comfortable with a telescoping gauge and outside mic, thus my
suggestion to use the bearing as a standard. It seems to me the
telescoping gauge gives a better feel than the inside mics and makes
a
direct comparison between the bearing and bore easier.

--
Ned Simmons


Thanks. I've had trouble with telescoping gauges previously, probably
because I didn't have a rigid enough boring bar to get a smooth
finish. I just measured the inside mike's setting ring with one and
hit 1.0000" on the first try.

-jsw

Rule #1..dont use a boring bar UNLESS you absolutely need one.
Rule #2 Keep it as absolutely short as possible.
Rule #3. Make it as fat as you can.


  #19   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,399
Default Installing a ball bearing

On Fri, 29 May 2015 08:10:30 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Larry Jaques fired this volley in
:

Obviously, there are no keepers or access holes. Chiwanese Tech,
y'know?


??? He's MAKING THE WHEELS HIMSELF! Such features don't just 'come' like
gravy in the pan. One MAKES them.

Lloyd


And he didnt drill/tap 2 opposed holes at the outside of the race
ring so he could press out the bearing in the future??

Why not?

Gunner


  #20   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,399
Default Installing a ball bearing

On Fri, 29 May 2015 10:02:11 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
.4.170...
Larry Jaques fired this volley
in
:

Obviously, there are no keepers or access holes. Chiwanese Tech,
y'know?


??? He's MAKING THE WHEELS HIMSELF! Such features don't just 'come'
like
gravy in the pan. One MAKES them.

Lloyd


I suspect that the HF trolley is a "value-engineered" copy of a
well-designed US original, perhaps this one:
http://www.chdist.com/product/cm-ser...aspx?var=92253

-jsw


****..Ive got at least 5 or more spare trolleys if anybody wants to
pay the shipping

Gunner


  #21   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,888
Default Installing a ball bearing

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 29 May 2015 11:00:46 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 29 May 2015 09:12:36 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:



I missed the fact that you're using an inside mic. I have a couple
of
that style, but rarely use them. For this sort of thing I'm more
comfortable with a telescoping gauge and outside mic, thus my
suggestion to use the bearing as a standard. It seems to me the
telescoping gauge gives a better feel than the inside mics and
makes
a
direct comparison between the bearing and bore easier.

--
Ned Simmons


Thanks. I've had trouble with telescoping gauges previously,
probably
because I didn't have a rigid enough boring bar to get a smooth
finish. I just measured the inside mike's setting ring with one and
hit 1.0000" on the first try.

-jsw

Rule #1..dont use a boring bar UNLESS you absolutely need one.
Rule #2 Keep it as absolutely short as possible.
Rule #3. Make it as fat as you can.


I've had the 3/4" boring bar for a long time, but was stuck on how to
cut a 5/16" lathe bit for it to length at the correct angle until I
tried the 7" angle grinder with a cutoff disk.
-jsw


  #22   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,399
Default Installing a ball bearing

On Fri, 29 May 2015 18:59:24 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 29 May 2015 11:00:46 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 29 May 2015 09:12:36 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:



I missed the fact that you're using an inside mic. I have a couple
of
that style, but rarely use them. For this sort of thing I'm more
comfortable with a telescoping gauge and outside mic, thus my
suggestion to use the bearing as a standard. It seems to me the
telescoping gauge gives a better feel than the inside mics and
makes
a
direct comparison between the bearing and bore easier.

--
Ned Simmons

Thanks. I've had trouble with telescoping gauges previously,
probably
because I didn't have a rigid enough boring bar to get a smooth
finish. I just measured the inside mike's setting ring with one and
hit 1.0000" on the first try.

-jsw

Rule #1..dont use a boring bar UNLESS you absolutely need one.
Rule #2 Keep it as absolutely short as possible.
Rule #3. Make it as fat as you can.


I've had the 3/4" boring bar for a long time, but was stuck on how to
cut a 5/16" lathe bit for it to length at the correct angle until I
tried the 7" angle grinder with a cutoff disk.
-jsw

As I said..its not..not rocket science.

  #23   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,888
Default Installing a ball bearing

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 29 May 2015 18:59:24 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
. ..
On Fri, 29 May 2015 11:00:46 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
m...
On Fri, 29 May 2015 09:12:36 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:



I missed the fact that you're using an inside mic. I have a
couple
of
that style, but rarely use them. For this sort of thing I'm more
comfortable with a telescoping gauge and outside mic, thus my
suggestion to use the bearing as a standard. It seems to me the
telescoping gauge gives a better feel than the inside mics and
makes
a
direct comparison between the bearing and bore easier.

--
Ned Simmons

Thanks. I've had trouble with telescoping gauges previously,
probably
because I didn't have a rigid enough boring bar to get a smooth
finish. I just measured the inside mike's setting ring with one
and
hit 1.0000" on the first try.

-jsw

Rule #1..dont use a boring bar UNLESS you absolutely need one.
Rule #2 Keep it as absolutely short as possible.
Rule #3. Make it as fat as you can.


I've had the 3/4" boring bar for a long time, but was stuck on how
to
cut a 5/16" lathe bit for it to length at the correct angle until I
tried the 7" angle grinder with a cutoff disk.
-jsw

As I said..its not..not rocket science.


No, this is:
Final velocity = (exhaust velocity) * ln ((mass at liftoff) / (mass
at burnout ) )





  #24   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,399
Default Installing a ball bearing

On Fri, 29 May 2015 21:37:25 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 29 May 2015 18:59:24 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 29 May 2015 11:00:46 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
om...
On Fri, 29 May 2015 09:12:36 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:



I missed the fact that you're using an inside mic. I have a
couple
of
that style, but rarely use them. For this sort of thing I'm more
comfortable with a telescoping gauge and outside mic, thus my
suggestion to use the bearing as a standard. It seems to me the
telescoping gauge gives a better feel than the inside mics and
makes
a
direct comparison between the bearing and bore easier.

--
Ned Simmons

Thanks. I've had trouble with telescoping gauges previously,
probably
because I didn't have a rigid enough boring bar to get a smooth
finish. I just measured the inside mike's setting ring with one
and
hit 1.0000" on the first try.

-jsw

Rule #1..dont use a boring bar UNLESS you absolutely need one.
Rule #2 Keep it as absolutely short as possible.
Rule #3. Make it as fat as you can.

I've had the 3/4" boring bar for a long time, but was stuck on how
to
cut a 5/16" lathe bit for it to length at the correct angle until I
tried the 7" angle grinder with a cutoff disk.
-jsw

As I said..its not..not rocket science.


No, this is:
Final velocity = (exhaust velocity) * ln ((mass at liftoff) / (mass
at burnout ) )


Sexy!! I love it when a formula comes together!!






  #25   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 897
Default Installing a ball bearing

On Fri, 29 May 2015 09:12:36 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 29 May 2015 06:01:20 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


If the concern is that you don't trust your mics, remember that you
have the bearing that's going in the bored hole. Treat the mic as a
comparator and the bearing as your standard. Ideally you want a line
to line fit to at most a couple tenths interference. You can
interpolate the graduations closely enough for that. I'd be more
concerned about the machine used for boring than the mics.

On the other hand, if you just want to be sure the bearing goes in
OK
the first time you can always heat the wheels if the fit after
boring
is too tight. Assuming the wheels are steel, a 300F temp rise will
open the bore .003. If you can get within .001, you should be good.
You do need to plan and work carefully when it's time to drop the
bearing into the hot wheel - the last thing you want is to get the
bearing cocked and jammed in the bore. It doesn't take long for the
bearing to warm up and expand.

--
Ned Simmons


I practiced measuring the setting ring. This Enco 508-00150730 inside
mike doesn't have a good enough feel to repeat to better than half a
thousandth.

The machine is my 1965 South Bend 10L, with a 3/4" boring bar that I
cut and ground a 5/16" square HHS bit for. It's more rigid than any
other boring bar I've used so this is my first go at boring a smooth
hole to a more precise diameter than Oilite requires.

On outside diameters that I can measure to 0.0001" the lathe can shave
a few tenths with a freshly honed bit.

-jsw

Essentially, you do not want the bearing outer race to rotate in the
hole and you do not want the shaft to rotate in the bearing inner
race. You also do not want to have too much of a "press fit" on either
diameter as it is very possible to cause the bearing outer race or
inner race to contract or swell sufficiently to cause it to "bind" to
at least some extent.

If I were doing it I would aim for a hole diameter of the bearing O.D.
to perhaps 0.001 larger and a shaft diameter of from bearing inner
diameter to 0.0005 smaller. If there is concern about either the outer
race rotating in the hole of the shaft rotating in the bearing inner
race than just assemble it with some of that bearing mounting goo.

It is not "rocket science".
--
Cheers,

John B.


  #26   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,025
Default Installing a ball bearing

On Fri, 29 May 2015 08:10:30 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:

Larry Jaques fired this volley in
:

Obviously, there are no keepers or access holes. Chiwanese Tech,
y'know?


??? He's MAKING THE WHEELS HIMSELF! Such features don't just 'come' like
gravy in the pan. One MAKES them.


But if he's following the old pattern exactly...

--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus
  #27   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,025
Default Installing a ball bearing

On Fri, 29 May 2015 10:02:11 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote in message
.4.170...
Larry Jaques fired this volley
in
:

Obviously, there are no keepers or access holes. Chiwanese Tech,
y'know?


??? He's MAKING THE WHEELS HIMSELF! Such features don't just 'come'
like
gravy in the pan. One MAKES them.

Lloyd


I suspect that the HF trolley is a "value-engineered" copy of a
well-designed US original, perhaps this one:
http://www.chdist.com/product/cm-ser...aspx?var=92253


Dere's snap rings in dem puppies.

--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus
  #28   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 9,025
Default Installing a ball bearing

On Fri, 29 May 2015 09:47:03 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Larry Jaques" wrote in message
news
On Thu, 28 May 2015 19:50:25 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:


For something that won't be used much is there a problem if a
bearing
fits loosely in the 40mm bore?


I forgot to say that you can firm up a race in a seat by tapping a
center punch several times (equidistant) around the seat ID. The
dimples will help hold the race but not be high enough to deform it.
I've done this on disc and drum brake hubs for decades, all without
a
single failure or return.


My usual method is to bore with a coarse enough feed to leave ridges
that the pressed-in part deforms, so there's more compliance than if
the bore were smooth. In this case the steady (=1300 Lbs) or shock
(=?) load might further compress them until the bearing is loose.

It's not a critical fit but it does make a good exercise to improve my
precision machining skill.


OR, you could always cut them exact and groove for a snapring...
(after drilling the bearing access holes

--
In the depth of winter, I finally learned
that within me there lay an invincible summer.
-- Albert Camus
  #29   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 5,888
Default Installing a ball bearing

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 29 May 2015 09:12:36 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

I missed the fact that you're using an inside mic. I have a couple
of
that style, but rarely use them. For this sort of thing I'm more
comfortable with a telescoping gauge and outside mic, thus my
suggestion to use the bearing as a standard. It seems to me the
telescoping gauge gives a better feel than the inside mics and makes
a
direct comparison between the bearing and bore easier.

--
Ned Simmons


That was a learning experience!

Thanks to those who helped, especially Ned for this advice on
measuring and Gunner for a simpler way to extract the bearings than I
had planned on.

Three of the bearings press into the wheels with heavy thumb pressure,
the fourth is loose by less than 0.001".

-jsw


  #30   Report Post  
Posted to rec.crafts.metalworking
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 10,399
Default Installing a ball bearing

On Tue, 9 Jun 2015 21:04:46 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

"Ned Simmons" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 29 May 2015 09:12:36 -0400, "Jim Wilkins"
wrote:

I missed the fact that you're using an inside mic. I have a couple
of
that style, but rarely use them. For this sort of thing I'm more
comfortable with a telescoping gauge and outside mic, thus my
suggestion to use the bearing as a standard. It seems to me the
telescoping gauge gives a better feel than the inside mics and makes
a
direct comparison between the bearing and bore easier.

--
Ned Simmons


That was a learning experience!

Thanks to those who helped, especially Ned for this advice on
measuring and Gunner for a simpler way to extract the bearings than I
had planned on.

Three of the bearings press into the wheels with heavy thumb pressure,
the fourth is loose by less than 0.001".

-jsw


^ 5!!!

Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
ball vs sleeve bearing Aaron Fude Home Repair 20 September 23rd 09 12:37 AM
Ball Bearing Size Pirateer guy Metalworking 12 September 8th 09 06:46 AM
chroming a ball bearing [email protected] Metalworking 5 March 3rd 08 12:21 AM
Ball Bearing Question Steve B Metalworking 4 January 8th 06 06:34 PM
Where to get Ball Bearing rollers bdeditch Woodworking 14 December 14th 05 10:13 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 04:55 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 DIYbanter.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about DIY & home improvement"